Any female sax players out there?
Roger Privitt
not just singers). It seems so rare by comparison. This month in Guitar
Player, they feature Chrissie Hynde of the Pretenders. They said that this
issue is only the second or third time in the magazine's history to feature
a female on the cover. They went on to say that they are sure to get a lot
of hate male (pun intended).
The stage front instrumental performance artist is so dominated by males. I
think it is commendable when women take on the career aspirations of being a
lead sax player or lead guitarist. We don't see enough of them in my
opinion.
I am not saying that all the women players need to be good eye candy for the
men. I don't care what their size or beauty is, if they can play, I will
applaud them with as much vigor or more, as any male performer.
So, this is a poll. How many female players are watching these threads?
If you are a female saxophonist, then add your comments or concerns to this
thread about this male dominated performance world.
Men, please stand down and let the women/girls speak openly.
--
Have a nice day!
Roger Privitt
Plano, TX
S Choi
female alright, but I started only about six weeks ago.
Roger Privitt wrote:
....
>
> So, this is a poll. How many female players are watching these threads?
>
> If you are a female saxophonist, then add your comments or concerns to this
> thread about this male dominated performance world.
>
....
Bari Sax Girl
mainly on Bari.
Male dominated performance world, eh? Honestly, it doesn't bother me. When
it comes down to it, and I'm approached by yet another ignorant highschool
jerk with the comment "That's a big saxophone for a little girl like you",
that is my cue to outperform the guts out of the said pompous windbag. Does
it push me to be a better player because I won't get the time of day unless
I play miles ahead of the top guy? At times, yes. Not everyone is gender
driven, though, and not all situations call for a gender-based competition.
What it comes down to, as a musician, is skill. If we're talking about
performing groups who'd prefer to have a chick saxophonist over a guy
saxophonist for image purposes (or vice versa), then I take it for that
surface value and go on to where I am valued as a musician and not a symbol.
What do the males think of the male dominated performance world, eh? I hope
we're sticking to sax performers!
~Bari Sax Girl Jen
"S Choi" <ram...@cox.net> wrote in message news:3E51AA25...@cox.net...
David M. Erato
all the alto jazz solos is female. This girl can plays her ass off. She's
the sweetist thing, but man when she plays it's just amazing. I think she's
from the L.A. area, and she got a degree in Jazz studies a year ago at USC.
Cannonball type sound. really really amazing.
"Roger Privitt" <rpri...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:g5g4a.144080$iG3.17185@sccrnsc02...
Brian_Todd
masters at the University of North Texas consisted of two females and
two males. The soprano player, Jackie Lamar (female), was, last time I
saw her, teaching sax at the University of Arkansas. I've also seen
the One O'Clock Lab band perform with a female on lead alto.
JSAXL
http://www.myanna.com/
http://www.lasax.com/jhill.htm
I have CD's by both ladies. Excellent performers!
John L
Roger Privitt
Anyone who plays in front of an audience already knows the thrill of
performance. It seems that men are naturally drawn to this rush. In
addition, men also have a basic need to be liked and wanted (Oh, oh. I'm
getting too deep here). Some women have the same attributes of enjoying the
rush of performance (music & sports), but the basic needs seem to be
different in a majority of women. They tend to want to be liked and wanted
on a personal level rather than in mass. This of coarse is a
generalization. The women who do step out in front of a mass of people,
have already disproved this theory.
Men have historically been willing to "get out" & "be out" in front of an
audience and away from home. Being a performing musician requires this type
of "sacrifice" (many consider it the "reward"). Because of the inherent
willingness for men to just get out and form a band, this tends to form the
personality compatibilities that are required for the "team" aspect of a
band. I am wondering if often women feel left out because they "just can't
get along with those idiot guys". Males tend to be arrogant towards women,
even when we try not to be.
This to me, is the tragic part. I feel that women can make beautiful music
and have a different desirable approach to the instruments. On the other
hand, there is a certain aggression required to be a performing artist.
Many women musicians that I know, are not aggressive enough to "push" the
music and be the front. They are content to "ride" with the music and be in
the mix. This can be the formula for a boring performance (unless of coarse
she is beautiful - not my opinion, just a fact).
You asked, so I thought I would respond. However, I don't want the men to
"dominate" this thread. It has the makings of being a real eye opener ; )
Thanks for your input.
Roger
nobody
Well, if we're going to talk about great female players,
I have to say "Jane Ira Bloom"!
And I heard a great soprano player with a sax quartet -
I think it was the Amherst Sax Quartet. Don't remember her name.
Stephen Howard
>> Also check out two more outstanding players; Jenny Hill and Myanna.
>
>Well, if we're going to talk about great female players,
>I have to say "Jane Ira Bloom"!
>
Kathy Stobart!!
--
Stephen Howard - Woodwind repairs & period restorations
www.shwoodwind.co.uk
Emails to: showard{who is at}shwoodwind{dot}co{dot}uk
Glenn Wilson
impressed. They played the shit out of the charts (which were all written
for the band, no stock arrangements). The jazz playing was a bit weak, but
that's true of most big bands, gender aside. The sax section played great.
It was kind of an interesting social dynamic, too. The main difference was
a lack of indifference, if you will. The strength of the show was
communcation. They made a real effort to pair up the soloists and have them
play off of each other, which really brought out the personalities of the
players. Stereotypically, that's a strength of the female gender. No one
was trying to be so cool that they came off as aloof and the soloist
pairings did not come off as a cutting contest but more as a conversation.
Of course, that's from my point of view, as a male.
Glenn
www.jazzmaniac.com
"Roger Privitt" <rpri...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:g5g4a.144080$iG3.17185@sccrnsc02...
Hubert Barth
>I recently heard a concert by DIVA, the all-femle big band. I was very
>impressed.
There is also a very good all female big band here:
The United Women's Orchestra
http://www.xs4all.nl/~hleach
And I also do notice the differences in playing that you describe.
regards
--
Hubert Barth
Cologne/Germany
http://www.bigbands.de
Pjlasax
players from throughout the world...brass players too!!
Here are some names to consider:
JENNY HILL, CECE WORRELL, JANINE DELARTE, PAM FLEMING, AVIVA MALONE, LAURA
ENGEL, NILDA RICHARDS, PAMELA WILLIAMS.......
pjl
Your name
news:20030218125313...@mb-df.aol.com:
And Canadian Jane Bunnett. Awesome soprano sax.
Dann
Ted Thompson
have to put my two cents in it. How about my friend and marvelous baritone
player, Leigh Pilzer? Have you not heard of Claire Daly?. What about Wendy
McDonald with the Artie Shaw Orchestra, also a baritone player. They`re out
there. Leigh Pilzer is a hell of a player in the DC area and goes out with
Diva on occasion. She not only is a burning bari and tenor player, she
writes too.
"Hubert Barth" <hubert...@netcologne.de> wrote in message
news:b2tj1g$d1a$1...@newsreader2.netcologne.de...
Bari Sax Girl
> Good for you Jen.
>
> Anyone who plays in front of an audience already knows the thrill of
> performance. It seems that men are naturally drawn to this rush. In
> addition, men also have a basic need to be liked and wanted (Oh, oh. I'm
> getting too deep here). Some women have the same attributes of enjoying
the
> rush of performance (music & sports), but the basic needs seem to be
> different in a majority of women. They tend to want to be liked and
wanted
> on a personal level rather than in mass. This of coarse is a
> generalization. The women who do step out in front of a mass of people,
> have already disproved this theory.
>
> Men have historically been willing to "get out" & "be out" in front of an
> audience and away from home. Being a performing musician requires this
type
> of "sacrifice" (many consider it the "reward"). Because of the inherent
> willingness for men to just get out and form a band, this tends to form
the
> personality compatibilities that are required for the "team" aspect of a
> band. I am wondering if often women feel left out because they "just
can't
> get along with those idiot guys". Males tend to be arrogant towards
women,
> even when we try not to be.
I think we need to confirm that we are discussing the player as a performer,
and not in the "musical" sense. When I perform, I'm focusing on my group
and how we can make something great, not on making the gig an ego-boost for
myself. I don't think that perspective is as dependent on society as you
might believe it to be. Individual performing styles are begotten from the
individual personality traits of a musician, not just their gender (but
gender is a part of personality, isn't it?).
Sacrifice and reward from leaving your family for months at a time to follow
your personal interest, while they sit around waiting for you to come home?
Without women, what home do you have to be away from or return to (for the
family people out there)? It's not about gender, it's about priorities. If
you see more women choosing to spend time with their families rather than on
the road, then you fail to see that it's a matter or priority, not ability.
But we wouldn't want to spend our time talking about those "undiscovered
geniuses", right? It's the sort of conflicting double standard women have
to live with: being "out and active" but somehow perfect housewives at home
rearing the future leaders of the world, and being physically attractive at
all times in itself (aka "the Super Woman Syndrome"). We do our best, but
not seeing us do what we can as musicians doesn't mean we do not exist.
"Because of the inherent willingness for men to just get out and form a
band, this tends to form the personality compatibilities that are required
for the 'team' aspect of a band." Whoa, there! Only men have a drive to
succeed and can be compatible on a team? I can't wait to tell my fellow
girls in their respective bands that their drive to work and become a
working team isn't legitimate! I couldn't think you intended to imply that
a man's determination is more valid than a woman's drive! The injustice!
Calling a fellow musician an "idiot" solely because of gender makes way for
the dark path to ignorance, my friend. I can't see an excuse like that as
valid from anyone. Personality conflicts, on the other hand, are abundant,
and it should be clarified as such.
One last point... sure, men are arrogant towards women, but they can also be
arrogant amongst themselves. That's a choice you make, fellas. If you miss
out on working with the next John Coltrane in a 20 or 30-some woman's body,
that is your prerogative.
> This to me, is the tragic part. I feel that women can make beautiful
music
> and have a different desirable approach to the instruments. On the other
> hand, there is a certain aggression required to be a performing artist.
> Many women musicians that I know, are not aggressive enough to "push" the
> music and be the front. They are content to "ride" with the music and be
in
> the mix. This can be the formula for a boring performance (unless of
coarse
> she is beautiful - not my opinion, just a fact).
I think you could conversely say that the lack of women "pushing" ties in
with the lack of men being content with "riding" it- I think these are two
different parts of making music, and I can't see one being more important
than the other. The front man has nothing to "push" without a mix to give
him support. That doesn't mean the talent isn't there; it's simply a
different approach, with no shame in it. Only arrogance would allow a
person to believe that a jazz band is only the soloist.
By the way, I think there's more to a boring performance than merely
"riding" it, and we don't want to start on all of the boring male
performances in the universe due to "over-pushing".
> You asked, so I thought I would respond. However, I don't want the men to
> "dominate" this thread. It has the makings of being a real eye opener ; )
As long as we don't get too "politically correct" in the process, who knows?
It's a subjective yet provoking topic, and the discussion is beyond "Guys
are dumb, women only make babies, etc". It's a step for humankind. ;)
SeaShel
instrument preference.
Bari is my forte; then tenor, soprano, clarinet, flute, picc, and not much
alto...not my thing.
Nowadays, I play weekly in a big band with other local folks; I also spent 8
years in army bands, and in my experience, what matters is whether or not
you can cut the gig. It's called being a professional. Everything else is
maturity level, and that varies among folks of every age and gender.
--
Michelle
(SeaShel)
free the fish to reply
Roger Privitt
certainly do not mean to imply anything that would reduce the importance of
a woman's role of her choice.
There ARE certainly a lot of female players that are in the mix in the
front. Being in the front takes a quality all in itself (good or bad). You
are correct that the backing musicians ARE an important part of the musical
formula. The front person always seems to get the attention. Front or
back, this discussion digresses and diverges from the original topic.
The real point of my discussions is that I would love to see more women
involved in the pursuit of music. I don't see much activity on this
newsgroup other than a few mainstays. When I am out & about town, I would
say that guys out number female players 99 to 1 (maybe even higher). The
exception is when the females are the lead or backing singers. However, in
the Christian music genre, there is a significant shift in the balance, yet
still seems dominated by male musicians.
If my arrogance continues to show, please forgive me and get over it ; )
Roger
"Bari Sax Girl" <in0th...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:M7x4a.8348$_c6.8...@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net...
TEP251Sax
>Diva on occasion. She not only is a burning bari and tenor player, she
>writes too.
PLUS, she's a cool person.VERY COOL.
Claire Daly is my good bud, she swings and has GREAT note choice.She plays
like some old guy from the hood in Chicago.SOULFUL.
Another is Jennifer Hall in L.A...
Total badass on EVERY woodwind,and a nice curved soprano player as well as a
kickin bari player.Jennifer is someone I have the highest respect for, she
works hard, plays ANY gig and adds to the music.
BOTH, her and Claire use those BARI synthetic plastic reeds and get great
sounds.I dunno, but they knock me out when they play.
Then there's Sue Terry who has the essence of the BlueNote era, Karolina
Strassmeyer who has a vivid alto sound, Virginia Mayhew who has a depth of
originality that is beautiful,Mayhew should be playin gigs with Dave
Holland..shes unreal,plus, Jenny Hill who just rips it up, the unsung great
tenor player Cynthia Mullis-who has something most forgot about-PHRASING..her
phrasing is special. The lady Myanna from Boston has a great FUNK sound and
really is original.
Jane Ira Bloom, without question has a style of her own- AND..that IS what
jazz should be about. That thing YOU bring into the music, NOT some carbon copy
junk.
Theres a Italian girl in NYC that was around DIVA
a bit who plays hardass tenor.I heard her at a session and cracked up...I dug
it so much.I could get her name from Claire but
anyhow,,,SHE IS COOOL.She was playin those wacked post-bop lines that just sang
out..then there's the ulta-cool Laura Dreyer to.Her sound on alto is TOTALLY
her.
Plus her flute playing is wild.I wish her Brazilian CD would get on a larger
label cuz the world NEEDS to hear her. ...
As Sonny Rollins said. " Music Is An Open Sky"...ya know....Tim Price
Pjlasax
years ago with Ronnie Cuber and a player from the big band as a Bari sax jazz
trio. She was phenonomel.
Also...DIVA set the bar rather high for all other like they did at Joe Segal's
place in Chicago a few years ago. All ladies....and absolutely great
sounds....all around PROS...and did they play great all eve.
pjl
Pjlasax
You're right...how could we forget!
pjl
MarshMan
double, including bassoon. Her Bari playing is outasight. Also in
California is Beverly Dahlke-Smith who doubles great, also plays bassoon and
plays great Bari. Bev is married to Greg Smith who played Bari with Kenton.
Lordy, a two Bari household! They might trigger a major quake on the San
Andreas faultline!
Then in L.A., there's Anne Patterson, lead alto and leader of the Maiden
Voyage Big Band which has been in existence for 25 or 30 years. That band
is tight and really swings. Great ensemble playing.
Shiela Gonzales is a hard blowin' alto player in L.A..
I've heard Karolina Strassmeyer and Virginia Mayhew only a little bit, but
they were both quite impressive.
Jane Ira Bloom is a national treasure, or at least should be!
Lots of good female musicians on the scene! No shortage of talent. BTW,
Anne King is a totally happening trumpet player in L.A. Plays great Lead
AND jazz, and funk.
- Steve
Roger Privitt
certainly a lot of great names of female sax players added to the list.
But the real effort of this discussion started out as listening to what
women have to say about what they do and what they like or dislike. Why? I
don't know why I asked. I was greatful for the perspectives offered by Bari
Sax Girl's 2 post. She touched on the gender gap issue and also pointed out
that the gender gap is not always a gender gap. It could be considered an
attitude gap.
If you are female, please post your thoughts.
TEP251Sax
Steve, she got SOME sound...
I heard her a few times and can't imagine HOW she ain't a household word.
Anne has got that nice thing of bop and
contemp stuff, VERY ACCESSIABLE.
Tho, Jennifer Hall is the bomb :)
Someday she and I are gonna record!!!
I've laid some of my wacked out jazz harmony stuff on her and she got it on
the spot!!! BTW, the Heckel bassoon she has
is one of the best I ever played....YO.!!
Jennifer plays her ass off, and shes
soooooooooooooooo ELLLLAY. LOL.
Hope all is well with you Steve, your totally amazing on your axes to,
We gotta hook up- Tim Price
Paul Lindemeyer
Hubert Barth wrote:
>
> "Glenn Wilson" <glenn.wil...@pobox.com> wrote:
>
> >I recently heard a concert by DIVA, the all-femle big band. I was very
> >impressed.
>
> There is also a very good all female big band here:
>
> The United Women's Orchestra
> http://www.xs4all.nl/~hleach
>
> And I also do notice the differences in playing that you describe.
The cooperative ethic is a good thing - for ANY musicians. There is way
too much cutting going on in music. But it would be too bad if that's
just a stage they go thru because they're as much a social experiment as
a musical one (**if** they are - I pass no judgment on that). It would
be a shame if they broke thru only to become hyper-competitive,
stereotypically "male" players. Especially when it's that kind of vibe
that you form an ALL-female group to get away from.
I'd also hate to see women players get "ghettoized", ie: one woman in an
all-male group or in women-only groups. The ratio of jazzwomen:jazzmen
might be at work here, but it seems like attitude must be part of the
mix, and that attitude is likely the cutting, hyper-competitive one.
It's not good for people OR music.
-P.
Glenn Wilson
experiment' side of it, too, as I was 'watching' (and listening). I've
spent many years on big bands and travelled constantly during those years,
and I know that the band becomes somewhat of a 'family', albeit a
dysfunctional one, to survive. I was trying to figure out how this would
work with DIVA. There are definitely different problems to face for them
and, certainly other opportunities based on their obvious 'hook', if you
will.
I was talking to Stanley Kay their manager, who also managed Buddy Rich for
many years, about the band. He was pretty straight-forward about the band.
He realizes that they have a certain marketing thing built in, but he was
funny in describing how 'guys' put the band down until they hear it.
You're probably correct about the competitiveness of a 'mixed' group. It
sure would be intersting to see if a 'mixed' group could survive,
artistically, socially or economically.
Glenn
www.jazzmaniac.com
"Paul Lindemeyer" <pa...@lindemeyer.com> wrote in message
news:3E53CD7E...@lindemeyer.com...
>
> Hubert Barth wrote:
> >
>.
PT
Or is everyone scared of saying "sex"?
--
best regards
Pete Thomas
"United we stand, together we fall" - Gordon
"Roger Privitt" <rpri...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:N1L4a.178583$vm2.133337@rwcrnsc54...
Paul Lindemeyer
Glenn Wilson wrote:
>
> I've spent many years on big bands and travelled constantly during those years,
> and I know that the band becomes somewhat of a 'family', albeit a
> dysfunctional one, to survive.
That interests me, Glenn. Do you think that a certain level of
dysfunction in a musical "family" is inevitable? Maybe even useful?
-P. (apologies if OT - but only halfhearted ones)
Bari Sax Girl
saying "sex"- are there ulterior motives in word usage?
"PT" <pt_no...@petethomas.co.uk> wrote in message
news:b30q2e$mbh$1...@aspen.sucs.soton.ac.uk...
Paul Lindemeyer
PT wrote:
>
> Surely the word is "sex" not "gender"
>
> Or is everyone scared of saying "sex"?
Well...Roger was mostly using "gender" within the phrase "gender gap,"
which has a widely accepted meaning and communicates quickly, besides
being catchily alliterative and buzz-wordy.
A "sex gap," to me, is not so much between men and women as between
who's having it and who isn't.
Makes you wonder if women musicians ever talk about what instrument or
music "gets the guys"... ;-)
-P.
Mike Hedgepath
While the words "sex" and "gender" are often used interchangeably, I
think that "gender" is the correct word for describing/attributing the
differences between men and women in the context of this thread. The issues
covered so far have in large part been a discussion of the different ways
men and women perceive themselves and fellow(gender neutral) musicians as
performers and members in bands.
Men OR women with aggressive tendencies are more likely to be
competitive within a group. There's always a dominant personality that seems
to emerge as the leader or "front person". This assumes that the talent to
take that role is present in the individual. I think that women get together
to engage in virtually any activity to escape the testosterone that
inevitably surfaces when men are brought into the mix.
Women seem to be more team oriented, and in the area of music, I'm more
interested in a player's chops than any physical attributes. Music is
consumed through the ears. The physical appearance of a woman is beheld with
the eyes. If then positively stimulated, the vision may lead me to
contemplate"sex".
Sorry ladies. I'm no dog, just a guy.
Respectfully (Really!)
Mike Hedgepath
Glenn Wilson
> dysfunction in a musical "family" is inevitable? Maybe even useful?
>
I think the dysfuntion depends on the leader. I've had some real opposite
type leaders - Buddy Rich, Lionel Hampton, Toshiko and Machito are all very
different and created certain inherent problems based on their 'leadership'
style. When I'm the leader and in charge, there are a whole new set of
problems. I could give examples, but I think you get my point.
I think it can be 'useful' in smaller groups, where the group can take on a
group personality, but in a big band ....
Glenda (my female side)
www.jazzmaniac.com
Bud Blevens
that site:
Gender
Sexual identity, especially in relation to society or culture.
The condition of being female or male; sex.
Females or males considered as a group: expressions used by one gender
Sex
The property or quality by which organisms are classified as female or male
on the basis of their reproductive organs and functions.
Either of the two divisions, designated female and male, of this
classification.
Females or males considered as a group.
The condition or character of being female or male; the physiological,
functional, and psychological differences that distinguish the female and
the male. See Usage Note at gender.
The sexual urge or instinct as it manifests itself in behavior.
Sexual intercourse.
The genitals.
Due to the many definitions, I only chose parts. However it refers to
"gender" being obsolete. I guess the point to which our society has fallen,
that is correct. I however feel gender is the more genteel term, and shows
more respect to those you are speaking to.
Just MO.
Bud
"PT" <pt_no...@petethomas.co.uk> wrote in message
news:b30q2e$mbh$1...@aspen.sucs.soton.ac.uk...
Hubert Barth
[In response to Paul Lindemeyer]
>You're probably correct about the competitiveness of a 'mixed' group. It
>sure would be intersting to see if a 'mixed' group could survive,
>artistically, socially or economically.
I see a lot more mixed groups in the amateur sector where economic
pressure does not occur. Still rare but you can see a clear trend.
Maybe the amateurs have to prepare the ground here.
What I also notice around here is a shift of generation.
Especially in places of Jazz study you can meet considerably more well
trained and self confident young ladies than in the past.
In 20 years we might reread this discussion with a broad smile.
"Sheesh ... look at what problems we had back then."
Glenn Wilson
that 'gender' is the preferred term these days. :)
Glenn--
www.jazzmaniac.com
"PT" <pt_no...@petethomas.co.uk> wrote in message
news:b30q2e$mbh$1...@aspen.sucs.soton.ac.uk...
PT
> that 'gender' is the preferred term these days. :)
Hmm, does she think the words "sex" and "gender" mean the same thing?
I thought that these days gender and sex mean different things. The Oxford
English
Dictionary actually refers to the "sex" meaning of "gender" as a euphonism.
That's all my original post was about. I always try to avoid euphomisns.
Often because I can't spell them
As opposed to the word "sex" which does define whether a person is
physically male or female (usually by the ownership of penis or vagina),
"gender" means more
the psychological attributes, eg masculine or feminine.
I agree that in the current discussion about female saxophone players the
cultural issue clouds this somewhat. Most female (ie of the female sex) sax
players would not consider it a compliment to be told "you play like a man".
That is because they are women, often but nor always feminine.
My original post was in response to:
> Sax Girl's 2 post. She touched on the gender gap issue and also pointed
out
> that the gender gap is not always a gender gap. It could be considered an
> attitude gap.
I was merely commenting on the use of the word "gender" here implying
something more like "sex" than "gender", because "attitude" is what makes
"gender" different to "sex".
I agree with Paul Lindemeyer that "sex gap" doesn't sound quite right. He
said it doesn't alliterate, but then neither does "gender gap".
--
best regards
Pete Thomas
"United we stand, together we fall" - Gordon
"Glenn Wilson" <glenn.wil...@pobox.com> wrote in message
news:yG65a.37235$Yv2....@nwrddc02.gnilink.net...
Glenn Wilson
> > Pete - if you're wife taught Women's Studies as mine does, you would
know
> > that 'gender' is the preferred term these days. :)
>
> Hmm, does she think the words "sex" and "gender" mean the same thing?
>
Nope. Just the opposite. Gender is the correct term. But I guess you know
that by now.
Glenn
>
Wendy
that thing and wouldn't play any other sax.
Maybe my personal inspiration is Lisa Simpson. :)
But I know what you mean - it's not just sax, it's jazz in general.
It's even more male-centered than rock. In my school jazz band for
two semesters, I was one of two girls of the 20-ish members. This
semester there's probably one girl. Yet, in concert band, there are
girls everywhere.
And bari sax girl, you're right, people say when I pick up that giant
horn, "How can you play something that big?" And I just reply with a
shrug, "It's what I love," and start playing. People give me a
similar suprised reaction when they find out that I play drums. But
I'm used to breaking norms, and I usually don't mind the extra
attention (to be honest).
I wish I could contribute a logical feminist analysis of this, but i
haven't read enough to... Ah well. But I'm here, anyway...
On Tue, 18 Feb 2003 01:35:08 GMT, "Roger Privitt"
<rpri...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>So, this is a poll. How many female players are watching these threads?
>
>If you are a female saxophonist, then add your comments or concerns to this
>thread about this male dominated performance world.
>
>Men, please stand down and let the women/girls speak openly.
Roger Privitt
fails. I wish I had good drum skills. I can almost keep a beat, but I fail
at breaking into a transition of any sort.
Roger
"Wendy" <scher2...@tcnj.edu> wrote in message
news:3dpj5vkt4jkl5q4cm...@4ax.com...
BobMac
> And bari sax girl, you're right, people say when I pick up that giant
> horn, "How can you play something that big?"
I wonder: do they mean, big, as opposed to traditionally "feminine" instruments
like, oh, um, the grand piano or the pipe organ?
rm
Scott J. Tringali
> I wonder: do they mean, big, as opposed to traditionally "feminine"
> instruments like, oh, um, the grand piano or the pipe organ?
Probably because one doesn't have to lift a grand piano, or supply the air for
a pipe organ, in order to play them...
Leanne
They also (usually) don't have to schlep them to gigs. Since I'm also
primarily a bari player, I always have that twinge of, "is it really
worth it?" when I'm hauling all my junk to and from the car on big
band jobs.
At any rate, Leanne from the L.A. area checking in, and I'm compelled
to add a "me too" to the good things others have said about Jennifer
Hall. Monster player, and a neat person to boot. But there are
others around.
You know, I don't know if it's completely accurate to assume that
there aren't many female sax players. I would agree that there aren't
many *adult* women playing the horn, but when I see school bands, the
sax section is usually divided pretty evenly between boys and girls.
That may be a new trend, but even if it isn't, it's not hard to come
up with plausible explanations of why so few of us continued on sax
into adulthood. First and foremost, guy sax players don't get
pregnant, and I don't think I know a single woman musician who has
school-age kids--they just don't seem to get "rehearsal nights" as
easily as fathers do. Second, it seems like most of the really
"serious" musicians I knew growing up were legit types who later
populated orchestras, and as the "band" types like me developed other
hobbies and dropped out, there were fewer and fewer women among those
who remained. Finally, the sax is so much more heavily emphasized in
jazz than in legit music, and although I think the tide is turning,
women still seem to make up only a fraction of jazz musicians at the
semi-pro/pro level on ANY instrument. My guess is that the
traditional identification of jazz with smoky bars and the
stereotypical group of blokes on a bandstand (I mean, gee, wouldn't
any self-respecting woman rather be dancing?!?) probably doesn't
appeal to any but the most die-hard female players. *Nice* girls
don't hang out in those places.
I'm finding it surprising, though, that most of us who have weighed in
have been baritone players. Certainly not a "girlie" chair,
especially for someone who likes the assertive approach to bari
playing. I was mostly an alto player for years but stumbled on an
opportunity to try it (college group with a hole in the spot), fell in
love with the horn and the parts people write for it, and never looked
back. I tend to stick with tenor for quartet playing, but it's not ME
in the same sense baritone is. Give me Mingus's "Moanin'" and a dose
of the right attitude, and I'm in the zone.
Incidentally, I'm currently playing in one band that's directed by a
woman, has a woman piano player, lead trumpet, and me on bari. It's
only about a year old now, but it's getting pretty tight as a solid
core of musicians has drifted in and stayed. Look for us to be
getting little or no pay at a jazz joint near you!
Cheers,
Leanne
P.S. Hi Tim! When are you coming out to the left coast again?
TEP251Sax
>P.S. Hi Tim! When are you coming out to the left coast again?
>
YO LEANNE !!!! How goes it!!!!!
I gotta come out to the left coast soon,
Jennifer has been tempting me with
Marguaritas and Mexican food stuff via E mail...hahahahha. I'm gettin' weak-
lol.
BUT, I'm working on it...there's some
cool stuff I want to do...as well as ride
mountain bikes w/ Jennifer - LOL.
Sherman Fergerson is on the case for some stuff to- I gotta do somehittin'
with him. Ya know him??
I got a cool gig in March with me and
Lew Tabackin...I'm writing some new music for that.
Hows life in your Eb world?????????
Let me know ok?
Your a bari nice player and lady to :)
Stay in touch...Tim Price :)
SeaShel
news:6ddad16e.0302...@posting.google.com...
>
> You know, I don't know if it's completely accurate to assume that
> there aren't many female sax players. I would agree that there aren't
> many *adult* women playing the horn, but when I see school bands, the
> sax section is usually divided pretty evenly between boys and girls.
> That may be a new trend, but even if it isn't, it's not hard to come
> up with plausible explanations of why so few of us continued on sax
> into adulthood. First and foremost, guy sax players don't get
> pregnant, and I don't think I know a single woman musician who has
> school-age kids--they just don't seem to get "rehearsal nights" as
> easily as fathers do.
Great point...for me, it just itsn't worth the time & trouble to be away
from the kids for too many nights in a week. Of course, my husband's a
piano guy, so we just take his gigs mostly and mine will come at a later
time, when the kids are older and don't want to be around us! I play once a
week and with my husband's 2-5 nights, that's plenty. He usually gets paid
more, too!
Give me Mingus's "Moanin'" and a dose
> of the right attitude, and I'm in the zone.
Aaaahhh! I love that chart! Many weeks, we just start our second set that
way, kind of a different way to call back the band!
--
Michelle
(SeaShel)
free the fish to reply
Scott J. Tringali
> Aaaahhh! I love that chart! Many weeks, we just start our second set that
> way, kind of a different way to call back the band!
Same here. Is there a better bari chart ANYWHERE? 'Cos I haven't seen one.
Edward Hagihara
I met Ann years and years ago at a jazz camp (I doubt she'd remember me),
and I actually went to school with Sheila at Fullerton College..
Sheila was a very cool hang - very mature and down to earth, a super person,
and a really good sax player. She also has some piano behind her. I
haven't seen her in years, but would love to catch up.
- Ed Hagihara
"MarshMan" <stvm...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:kFD4a.10075$YU4.8...@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net...
Wendy
Instant, pure, liquified sonic heaven. Melts me into a warm puddle of
melodic caressing... :)
-wendy
BONB
the same guy? I think he used Yamaha saxophones.
MarshMan <stvm...@earthlink.net> wrote in article
<kFD4a.10075$YU4.8...@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net>...
MarshMan
news:01c2e278$42828c80$76234290@sspooner...
> There was a Steve Marsh that played with Lyle Lovett's big band. Are you
> the same guy? I think he used Yamaha saxophones.
Guilty as charged! Except that I haven't played the Yamaha alto or soprano
saxes in many years. Always was a Selmer man on tenor. We still
occasionally play with Lyle when he can get work for his 17 piece Large
Band. Due to economics, he also sometimes performs with a much smaller
horn-less band. We did play on Jay Leno last week if anybody caught that.
My fellow sax brother in the Lovett band, Harvey Thompson, is a Monster.
Harv is from the Muscle Shoals Horns and has recorded on about 700 albums
with almost everyone in the Blues and R&B field: Johnnie Taylor, Bobby Blue
Bland, Denise LaSalle, Delbert McClinton, Sissy Houston, toured with Elton
John, the list goes on and on. He's got some stories!
cheers,
SM
TEP251Sax
Let me add this >
Steve plays fantastic saxophone.
His open mind and serious approach is a welcome treat for my ears.
It just goes to show ya, there are a lot of unsung masters out there and HE
is one of them.
Check him out he's baddddasssss-
Steve you knock me out !! Tim Price :)
BONB
MarshMan <stvm...@earthlink.net> wrote in article
<MKa9a.2489$wJ1.2...@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net>...
bebopper
L.A. - See if he can find some with that crazy READING sauce on it
!! <g>.
- bebopper
TEP251Sax
>L.A. - See if he can find some with that crazy READING sauce on it
YOU mean Tacks sauce !!!!
I gotta watch that stuff as I get older,,,
I ain't no Bootsie ya know ;)
Tim Price
BONB
Tim Price, Dave Woodford, Stephen Howard, Pete Thomas etc.
Greg Strange,
Hamilton,
New Zealand.
TEP251Sax <tep2...@aol.com> wrote in article
<20030304185746...@mb-cn.aol.com>...
Ekstasis
I'm Christel. Artists/Guitarist/Musician
I played alto sax in the High School Jazz Band while in Jr.High.
(woodwinds)Lots of Fun. I miss it. For the past 8 years Ive fiddled
with the 6 string electric. It's a part of me. The Male Dominating
the seen, I wouldn't want it any other way.
Have A Nice Day
Christel Busby
Roger Privitt wrote:
> I am intrigued when I see females take up the music trade
(instrumentally,
> not just singers). It seems so rare by comparison. This month in
Guitar
> Player, they feature Chrissie Hynde of the Pretenders. They said
that this
> issue is only the second or third time in the magazine's history to
feature
> a female on the cover. They went on to say that they are sure to get
a lot
> of hate male (pun intended).
>
> The stage front instrumental performance artist is so dominated by
males. I
> think it is commendable when women take on the career aspirations of
being a
> lead sax player or lead guitarist. We don't see enough of them in my
> opinion.
>
> I am not saying that all the women players need to be good eye candy
for the
> men. I don't care what their size or beauty is, if they can play, I
will
> applaud them with as much vigor or more, as any male performer.
>
> So, this is a poll. How many female players are watching these
threads?
>
> If you are a female saxophonist, then add your comments or concerns
to this
> thread about this male dominated performance world.
>
> Men, please stand down and let the women/girls speak openly.
>
> --
> Have a nice day!
>
> Roger Privitt
> Plano, TX