warbling on low c
Nick
right by now...I still have problems with the low c/c# on alto
warbling/wobbling. I can sub-tone the note, or blast it, but between those
extremes it's unreliable. Tends to come on after I've been playing for about
20 mins.
My repairer tells me the horn is OK (btw it's a selmer s80 mk 1), and I
often get the same problem with other altos. Playing bari is fine. I started
out on a Parrot (argh) which unsurprisingly had the same problem, but I
really didn't expect this to persist once I got the Selmer. There was a
problem with the Eb lifting, but I've had the spring strengthened, and this
doesn't now seem to happen.
I don't think it's a mpc issue (selmer c* or lawton 7). I'm aware of the
need for breath support, open throat, relaxed embouchure (like I say, I've
been playing long enough) - are there obvious technique issues/bad habits
that might lead to this problem?
No teacher at present, but no previous teacher has mentioned anything...
Thoughts welcome!
best
Nick
Mark Bushaw
of the low notes somewhat and may be enough to move the pressure away from
the problem. If the notes speak easier, you may have a small leak, probably
in the body to bow joint (you can spread some silicon sealant on the inside
to fix). Many people just get a wine cork and leave it in the bell, I didn't
like this fix as the tuning changes on the low notes.
Mark Bushaw
"Nick" <nickj...@KILLSPAMNOWntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:V1gMa.12815$sh4.1...@newsfep2-win.server.ntli.net...
salvey
> warbling/wobbling.
Nick, how is it with B and Bb ? Also, if you can get your hands on a
friend's Yamaha Custom alto, and give it a C/C# workout, that might
reveal something, as the Yamahas are very reliable on the low
registers.
Sal
Nick
access to a Yamaha, I'm afraid, though as I recall they are easier at the
bottom end..
I had heard about the wine cork fix, but like you, Mark, I'm reluctant to be
doing with these ad hoc solutions.
best
Nick
"salvey" <pas...@optonline.net> wrote in message
news:4cc88b4a.03070...@posting.google.com...
P. Tung
warble, and it's the note on the horn that is most sensitive to any kind of
leak going on above it.
If your C is gurgling, and there was a time when it didn't, previously, the
usual suspects are:
- octave vent pads, or mechanism not sealing properly, or out of adjustment
- G#/F#/RH linkage problem
- leaking low Eb
- A/C/Bis linkage leak, caused by cork or felt compression or other
adjustment failure
- B key cup height too low or too high (adjustment to low Bb can also help,
when addressing a keyheight issue)
- palm key leak in high notes, especially high E (natural) or high F# if
present
- neck issue or tenon fit issue
"Nick" <nickj...@KILLSPAMNOWntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:YDwMa.15783$sh4.1...@newsfep2-win.server.ntli.net...
Nick
NJ
"P. Tung" <pt...@nobsppaam.justsaxes.com> wrote in message
news:g_yMa.4891$eW6....@fe03.atl2.webusenet.com...
Stephen Howard
<pt...@nobsppaam.justsaxes.com> wrote:
>On most saxophones, especially tenors, low B is most apt to gurgle or
>warble, and it's the note on the horn that is most sensitive to any kind of
>leak going on above it.
>
>If your C is gurgling, and there was a time when it didn't, previously, the
>usual suspects are:
>
>- octave vent pads, or mechanism not sealing properly, or out of adjustment
>- G#/F#/RH linkage problem
>- leaking low Eb
>- A/C/Bis linkage leak, caused by cork or felt compression or other
>adjustment failure
>- B key cup height too low or too high (adjustment to low Bb can also help,
>when addressing a keyheight issue)
>- palm key leak in high notes, especially high E (natural) or high F# if
>present
>- neck issue or tenon fit issue
>
Add to that a possible leak at the body to bottom bow join, and weak
springing or badly seated pads on the side Bb and C.
Regards,
--
Stephen Howard - Woodwind repairs & period restorations
www.shwoodwind.co.uk
Emails to: showard{who is at}shwoodwind{dot}co{dot}uk
Mark Bushaw
definate change for the better, you know there is a problem at one of the
nodes for that note. Another way to move the node is to drastically change
the position of the mouthpiece (for some reason, shoving the mouthpiece on
further makes more difference). Again, a diagnostic tool. The idea is to see
if it is the horn or mouthpiece / reed / player.
Mark Bushaw
"Nick" <nickj...@KILLSPAMNOWntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:YDwMa.15783$sh4.1...@newsfep2-win.server.ntli.net...
Bjorn Blomberg
I tried the moutpice-cap-in-the-bell test on my tenor (mk7). To my
surprise, it actually relieved to a great extent the warbling around D
and C. What is the significance of this? I am not sure what you meant
about the "nodes" business. Does it mean:
- that there is a leak or something that can be fixed, or
- that I can overcome the problem by increasing "breath support"
- that the horn itself is not good (don't hope so...)
Bjørn
Bergen, Norway
Selmer mk7 tenor, vandoren t55, vandoren 2.5 reeds
P. Tung
second is to see if changing your B and Bb heights helps significantly.
There are usually multiple ways to address any problem, and usually the
source of a problem is not just one thing, but a combination of things.
"Bjorn Blomberg" <fornavn....@cih.uib.no> wrote in message
news:1fxtz4h.y1vohr183wilaN%fornavn....@cih.uib.no...
Pjlasax
inaccurate design of the bow creating an abberant active "node". It has
absolutely nothing to do with leaks!!
Yes, the mouthpiece cap solution has been arround since the problem arose in
epidemic forms in the early to mid ;80s vis a vis the original JUPITER factory
which made an engineer error when copying a tenor sax model produced in Europe.
There is no permanent FIX to this problem other than placing a business card
size piece of thin brass at the bottom of the bow (inside) and epoxying it in
securely.
The brass insert should be bowed slightly down and does alter the air
capacity/flow and turbulence enough to cancel this node that is causing the
'warbling'.
Good luck.
pjl
Bjorn Blomberg
> Warbling on low C or other notes in the bow section is a result of an
> inaccurate design of the bow creating an abberant active "node". It has
> absolutely nothing to do with leaks!!
Most of the "warbling" is actually on low E, D, C# and B. There is also
a bit of warbling on C and Bb, but they are relatively easier to play
for some reason.
> Yes, the mouthpiece cap solution has been arround since the problem arose
> in epidemic forms in the early to mid ;80s vis a vis the original JUPITER
> factory which made an engineer error when copying a tenor sax model
> produced in Europe.
Is this a known issue with Selmer Mk7 tenors. It has got a M-tube
design, which, as far as I know, should be the same as in the latest Mk6
tenors.
> There is no permanent FIX to this problem other than placing a business
> card size piece of thin brass at the bottom of the bow (inside) and
> epoxying it in securely.
>
> The brass insert should be bowed slightly down and does alter the air
> capacity/flow and turbulence enough to cancel this node that is causing
> the 'warbling'.
Sounds like something I'd better get the repairman to do...
Cheers, Bjørn
P. Tung
"Pjlasax" <pjl...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20030709100315...@mb-m12.aol.com...
> Warbling on low C or other notes in the bow section is a result of an
> inaccurate design of the bow creating an abberant active "node". It has
> absolutely nothing to do with leaks!!
This is just false, though many techs use such statements as excuses when
their work doesn't play.
There are a few horns that are particularly difficult in low B, but not
many.
I can't tell you how many people have asked me, for example, about what
period the Chu alto stopped having some kind of inherent gurgling problem in
the bell tones. I have never seen a Chu alto that had this problem, which
wasn't ultimately a problem that the player had, or that was correctable
with adjustment, and I have worked on alot of Chu altos.
P. Tung
validity, i.e. about a abberant node, I don't know (and by that, I mean, "I
don't know"), but in practice there are very few horns where a belltone
issue cannot be corrected either at the point of the player's technique,
her/his set-up, or the adjustment of the horn.
Offhand, in the past few years, and of a pool of perhaps 200-300 saxophones,
I have only come across 3 where an acoustical issue in the bow might have
been a player. Two were SML tenors (with a seeminly insolubly unsteady low
B), and one was a Buffet SA tenor. In both of the SMLs' cases, they were
just extremely sensitive in the low B to any kind of wavering from the
ideal, in terms of set-up, airstream, key heights, and they had to be
absolutely, infallibly tight for the B to speak freely and quickly. I'm apt
to think an acoustical problem is responsible, both because SML bows & bells
are unusual in their dimensions, and because one of these horns was much
more forgiving of adjustment issues when it had a big dent in the bottom of
the bow (i.e. and the warbling issue came into play only after bringing the
bow back to original/near-original condition). In the case of the SA, some
retard had (unnecessarily) slipped a collar over the neck that overhung it
in a way that interfered with airflow, and for some reason (though you
wouldn't necessarily expect this to be the cause) seemed to create a
turbulence that singled out the low B for disaster.
"P. Tung" <pt...@nobsppaam.justsaxes.com> wrote in message
news:EvWOa.3400$kx6....@fe03.atl2.webusenet.com...
P. Tung
and palm keys blowing open?
To do this, try subtoning notes from low E downward, with the warmest,
widest, most forceful aircolumn you can produce, and have someone test, cup
by cup, for vibration and air encouraging cups to blow open.
It really sounds like your problem is simply conventional repair issues. If
you've already been to a tech, there is a good chance you ought to try
another, if you have other options you haven't yet explored in your area.
"Bjorn Blomberg" <fornavn....@cih.uib.no> wrote in message
news:1fxu7hj.1n1fgeh1hj776iN%fornavn....@cih.uib.no...
P. Tung
known dealer.
I had taken the horn from him to have a look at, possibly to buy or sell for
him on consignment, and when I got it home I tightened it up it just played
incredibly badly in the bell tones.
When I brought the horn back to him, he played it a bit, and then declared,
"Well, what we have here is a horn that's just inherently
mouthpiece-sensitive."
I didn't mention the sleeve, because I knew that he knew this was the likely
culprit. Wanting to be polite I didn't insult him by indicating that I
realized he was making up whatever exotic sounding excuse convenient, to
cover up that he knew the horn had a problem that might or might not be
difficult to fix.
Somebody eventually bought that horn, from that dealer, and I guarantee you
that this particular dealer never mentioned to the buyer that a collar had
been affixed to the end of the neckpipe, that likely was making for
"mouthpiece-sensitivity" problems, though the buyer likely is still trying
to figure out to this day what exotic reason is behind his low B's insoluble
gurgling.
"P. Tung" <pt...@nobsppaam.justsaxes.com> wrote in message
news:9SWOa.7119$K67....@fe04.atl2.webusenet.com...
Pjlasax
endlessly.
About 12 years ago I was involved in evaluating a large qty of TAIWAN
altos/tenors....when we found that over 50% of the tenors "gurgled" in the bow
section on C, Eb & B. Somehow we were able to bark out on Bb.
The fix from Taiwan (Jupiter) was exactly as I described in my first memo and
it was a BITCH to install over 40 saxes...but the problem was solved and the
horns never came back.
pjl
Stephen Howard
<pt...@nobsppaam.justsaxes.com> wrote:
>
>"Pjlasax" <pjl...@aol.com> wrote in message
>news:20030709100315...@mb-m12.aol.com...
>> Warbling on low C or other notes in the bow section is a result of an
>> inaccurate design of the bow creating an abberant active "node". It has
>> absolutely nothing to do with leaks!!
>
>This is just false, though many techs use such statements as excuses when
>their work doesn't play.
>
>There are a few horns that are particularly difficult in low B, but not
>many.
I'm inclined to agree.
My last experience of this was just recently, when a client came to
collect his MKVI alto after an overhaul.
He was delighted not to find a warble on the bell notes, and when I
questioned this he informed me that the last chap to do an overhaul (
an evidently respectable repairer ) claimed it was one of those things
'that you get with this model'.
>
>I can't tell you how many people have asked me, for example, about what
>period the Chu alto stopped having some kind of inherent gurgling problem in
>the bell tones. I have never seen a Chu alto that had this problem, which
>wasn't ultimately a problem that the player had, or that was correctable
>with adjustment, and I have worked on alot of Chu altos.
>
I've sometimes found that the client gets a gurgle, and I don't.
In this instance the very first thing I check is their tuning.
Some horns can be very picky with regard to tuning - if blown slightly
off true they can exhibit a drop-off in tone on certain notes, and the
dreaded warbling.
In such cases a lot of it is to do with incorrect blowing technique -
and if it occurs after a repad it's often due to the player still
compensating for leaks that are no longer there.
A few days re-familiarising themselves with the horn pays dividends.
Regards,
--
Stephen Howard - Woodwind repairs & period restorations
P. Tung
> No harm done with your statements in as much as theory can be debated
> endlessly.
>
> About 12 years ago I was involved in evaluating a large qty of TAIWAN
> altos/tenors....when we found that over 50% of the tenors "gurgled" in the
bow
> section on C, Eb & B. Somehow we were able to bark out on Bb.
Hm.... I can believe that, because I haven't seen too many Taiwan horns
excepting a couple of Unisons & a good number of Cannonballs. The earlier
generations of both seemed to exhibit some bizarre intonational tendencies
in the bell tones, which a player would experience as a note wanting to
break up (because they would be trying to make it play at a pitch other than
the tone hole's placement determined).
I have not seen that problem on any of the CB's that have come through my
hands, though some needed a fair amount of keyheight tweaking to articulate
properly. Any horn, for example, whose low C is set too low can exhibit
problems in the low D, or middle D, and readily. Same for any of the right
hand notes, with any keyheight being too low.
>
> The fix from Taiwan (Jupiter) was exactly as I described in my first memo
and
> it was a BITCH to install over 40 saxes...but the problem was solved and
the
> horns never came back.
> pjl
I can believe that. I have literally zero experience with Jupiter (and am
not likely to, in the future, since no one owns one locally that I know, and
my website explicitly states I won't work on them, lol).
P. Tung
"Stephen Howard" <sees...@email.uk> wrote in message
news:vf1pgv0upgs7cvi3l...@4ax.com...
> On Wed, 9 Jul 2003 10:38:54 -0500, "P. Tung"
> <pt...@nobsppaam.justsaxes.com> wrote:
>
> >
> >"Pjlasax" <pjl...@aol.com> wrote in message
> >news:20030709100315...@mb-m12.aol.com...
> >> Warbling on low C or other notes in the bow section is a result of an
> >> inaccurate design of the bow creating an abberant active "node". It has
> >> absolutely nothing to do with leaks!!
> >
> >This is just false, though many techs use such statements as excuses when
> >their work doesn't play.
> >
> >There are a few horns that are particularly difficult in low B, but not
> >many.
>
> I'm inclined to agree.
> My last experience of this was just recently, when a client came to
> collect his MKVI alto after an overhaul.
> He was delighted not to find a warble on the bell notes, and when I
> questioned this he informed me that the last chap to do an overhaul (
> an evidently respectable repairer ) claimed it was one of those things
> 'that you get with this model'.
Yah: I think alot of people have heard varying explanations for why their
VIs do not play like they feel a VI ought to.
Probably you'll agree, VIs are much more sensitive to adjustment issues
than, say, a Conn or Buescher (or for that matter, a Keilwerth), which will
blow well sometimes despite considerable adjustment issues. I think alot of
people think they have played bad VIs that just were a little out of
adjustment, or that could have been completely reborn with about 20-30 min
of work, and a tenon fitting.
I would like to have had a chance to buy some of those "bad" VIs, lol.
> >
> >I can't tell you how many people have asked me, for example, about what
> >period the Chu alto stopped having some kind of inherent gurgling problem
in
> >the bell tones. I have never seen a Chu alto that had this problem,
which
> >wasn't ultimately a problem that the player had, or that was correctable
> >with adjustment, and I have worked on alot of Chu altos.
> >
>
> I've sometimes found that the client gets a gurgle, and I don't.
> In this instance the very first thing I check is their tuning.
> Some horns can be very picky with regard to tuning - if blown slightly
> off true they can exhibit a drop-off in tone on certain notes, and the
> dreaded warbling.
Yes: I have help sometimes from a much more accomplished player than
myself, and pretty often he will have an issue that doesn't show up for me.
Partly I think this is because I've played alot more horns than he has,
despite the ability gap, but also I think it's because he tunes in a
different spot from me, so that possibly some acoustical things that have an
effect when he plays do not have an effect when I play; i.e., since the wave
is moving around in the bore, with the mouthpiece tuned at different spots,
the tuning tendencies of the horn are literally changing, when he plays
versus when I play. Probably (surely?) the body comes into play here, and
the way that the body and diaphragm & embouchure are exerting some kind of
influence, intonationally, too. All of that means that the horn literally
plays differently, for each of us.
>
> In such cases a lot of it is to do with incorrect blowing technique -
> and if it occurs after a repad it's often due to the player still
> compensating for leaks that are no longer there.
> A few days re-familiarising themselves with the horn pays dividends.
>
> Regards,
This never happens, when I work on someone's horn.
(haha - just kidding)
Stephen Howard
<pt...@nobsppaam.justsaxes.com> wrote:
>>
>> I'm inclined to agree.
>> My last experience of this was just recently, when a client came to
>> collect his MKVI alto after an overhaul.
>> He was delighted not to find a warble on the bell notes, and when I
>> questioned this he informed me that the last chap to do an overhaul (
>> an evidently respectable repairer ) claimed it was one of those things
>> 'that you get with this model'.
>
>Yah: I think alot of people have heard varying explanations for why their
>VIs do not play like they feel a VI ought to.
>
>Probably you'll agree, VIs are much more sensitive to adjustment issues
>than, say, a Conn or Buescher (or for that matter, a Keilwerth), which will
>blow well sometimes despite considerable adjustment issues. I think alot of
>people think they have played bad VIs that just were a little out of
>adjustment, or that could have been completely reborn with about 20-30 min
>of work, and a tenon fitting.
>
I think I'd agree that the MKVI is a 'picky' horn - I've seen them
stopped dead by things that other horns seem to get by just fine with.
Whether that's a fault or not is hard to say.
>I would like to have had a chance to buy some of those "bad" VIs, lol.
I like fixing 'em up - there's nothing quite as good for the
professional street cred as resurrecting a MKVI that no other repairer
has been able to make sing.
I make a crappy buyer - I just can't resist the challenge of a tardy
horn.
>>>
>> I've sometimes found that the client gets a gurgle, and I don't.
>> In this instance the very first thing I check is their tuning.
>> Some horns can be very picky with regard to tuning - if blown slightly
>> off true they can exhibit a drop-off in tone on certain notes, and the
>> dreaded warbling.
>
>Yes: I have help sometimes from a much more accomplished player than
>myself, and pretty often he will have an issue that doesn't show up for me.
>
>Partly I think this is because I've played alot more horns than he has,
>despite the ability gap, but also I think it's because he tunes in a
>different spot from me, so that possibly some acoustical things that have an
>effect when he plays do not have an effect when I play; i.e., since the wave
>is moving around in the bore, with the mouthpiece tuned at different spots,
>the tuning tendencies of the horn are literally changing, when he plays
>versus when I play. Probably (surely?) the body comes into play here, and
>the way that the body and diaphragm & embouchure are exerting some kind of
>influence, intonationally, too. All of that means that the horn literally
>plays differently, for each of us.
Without a doubt - there were three of us in the workshop today, all
blowing on the same horn ( not at once! ) - a Martin Committee, and we
all made it sound different.
Yes, there was an identifiable 'common tone' there, but each player
enhanced a different set of harmonics - and got a different feedback
from the horn.
We repeated the playing with a Conn 1OM with the same results.
>
>>
>> In such cases a lot of it is to do with incorrect blowing technique -
>> and if it occurs after a repad it's often due to the player still
>> compensating for leaks that are no longer there.
>> A few days re-familiarising themselves with the horn pays dividends.
>>
>
>This never happens, when I work on someone's horn.
>
>
>(haha - just kidding)
>
It even happens to me!
I've sweated blood on a horn before now, fighting with a duff B or a
warbly C - and in sheer exasperation I've put the horn in a corner and
gone home in a blue funk.
When I return to the horn some days later, ready to do battle, I find
the bloody thing plays a treat!
Maybe one day I'll get to work just that little bit earlier and find
loads of little pixies scurrying over the workbench!
Regards,
Stephen Howard
I've seen loads of Jupiter horns, and I've never encountered this
problem - but then again maybe all the examples I've seen have had
the fix installed!
I shall be looking from now on!
Maybe you guys have a different version from the ones we get?
Mark Bushaw
The MkVII has a detachable bow/bell. Sometimes this body/bow connection
leaks. If you are mechanical, you can try removing a few keys to gain access
to the inside of the horn around this connection (Eb key, C key). Then take
a small amount of silicon sealer and wipe around the connection.
If at all possible, before you tear apart your horn, try another horn to see
if it is a breath support issue!
nodes- as a note sounds in a horn, thee are areas of high and low air
pressure. The high ones are often called nodes, and the low ones anti nodes
(I think I got that right, please correct me, someone, if I got it wrong).
Anyway, what it amounts to is a small leak will have a greater influence on
certain notes, and a lesser influence on others
Mark Bushaw
"Bjorn Blomberg" <fornavn....@cih.uib.no> wrote in message
news:1fxtz4h.y1vohr183wilaN%fornavn....@cih.uib.no...
Bjorn Blomberg
probably not caused by a "bad horn" (which is a great relief); the
issues with my horn probably can be solved by one or more adjusments.
Bjorn
Bjorn Blomberg
> Bjorn, did you check for side keys (as Stephen Howard suggested) or low Eb
> and palm keys blowing open?
> To do this, try subtoning notes from low E downward, with the warmest,
> widest, most forceful aircolumn you can produce, and have someone test, cup
> by cup, for vibration and air encouraging cups to blow open.
>
> It really sounds like your problem is simply conventional repair issues. If
> you've already been to a tech, there is a good chance you ought to try
> another, if you have other options you haven't yet explored in your area.
I tried to stick a sock under the "cage" surrounding the low Eb-key in
order to exert more pressure on it. Didn't help much though. (BTW, what
is meant by "palm keys", are those the ones from high D (D3) on the left
hand?)
I will try the test with another person checking the cups. Perhaps I
should see the repairman again.
Thanks for a lot of good advice.
Bjorn
Bjorn Blomberg
> Hi Bjorn
> The MkVII has a detachable bow/bell. Sometimes this body/bow connection
> leaks. If you are mechanical, you can try removing a few keys to gain access
> to the inside of the horn around this connection (Eb key, C key). Then take
> a small amount of silicon sealer and wipe around the connection.
That is an interesting option. I wonder if it would at all be possible
to see any leak in the body/bell transition from the outside. Or
probably just an invisibly small leak would be enough to cause problems.
> If at all possible, before you tear apart your horn, try another horn to see
> if it is a breath support issue!
Good idea. Since I recently came from playing soprano/alto, I probably
still may need some adjustment of my breathing technique to the higher
demands of the tenor.
> nodes- as a note sounds in a horn, thee are areas of high and low air
> pressure. The high ones are often called nodes, and the low ones anti nodes
> (I think I got that right, please correct me, someone, if I got it wrong).
> Anyway, what it amounts to is a small leak will have a greater influence on
> certain notes, and a lesser influence on others
Well explained! Makes sense. Thanks a lot. One really learns a lot about
the instrument on this group.
Bjørn
P. Tung
> >> In such cases a lot of it is to do with incorrect blowing technique -
> >> and if it occurs after a repad it's often due to the player still
> >> compensating for leaks that are no longer there.
> >> A few days re-familiarising themselves with the horn pays dividends.
> >>
> >
> >This never happens, when I work on someone's horn.
> >
>
> >
> >(haha - just kidding)
> >
> It even happens to me!
> I've sweated blood on a horn before now, fighting with a duff B or a
> warbly C - and in sheer exasperation I've put the horn in a corner and
> gone home in a blue funk.
> When I return to the horn some days later, ready to do battle, I find
> the bloody thing plays a treat!
> Maybe one day I'll get to work just that little bit earlier and find
> loads of little pixies scurrying over the workbench!
>
> Regards,
>
>
>
> --
> Stephen Howard - Woodwind repairs & period restorations
> http://www.shwoodwind.co.uk
> Emails to: showard{who is at}shwoodwind{dot}co{dot}uk
Well, in my case, I work so slowly that, by the time the horn is done, no
mortal creature could possibly remember what the horn played like before....
*lol*
P. Tung
I think Stephen probably gave you the good guess, on the side keys (Bb and
C). Definitely check those. They are the cups on the back of the body tube
which open to voice B2/B3 and C2/C3, using the RH side (or "palm") keys.
A body-bow seam leak, as was suggested, is also worth checking into.
Actually, it's not a bad idea to solder that seam (and the bell-bow joint)
together, if you are sure you want to keep your horn. Best to have someone
you really trust do a job like that.
"Bjorn Blomberg" <fornavn....@cih.uib.no> wrote in message
news:1fxvjzd.t7auzeaolls0N%fornavn....@cih.uib.no...
Pjlasax
body/bow collar is critical...and the silicon idea fix does work.
Key pad height is important as well and must be addressed horn by horn...player
by player.
The ultimate sub-tone test is best but requires good player skills within his
body: i,e;
OPENING HIS THROAT....TAKING LESS OR MORE MOUTHPIECE INTO HIS MOUTH....GETTING
THE FEEL OF THE HORN IN THE MASK OF HIS FACE....
HEARING THE NOTE IN HIS HEAD BEFORE HE BLOWS....
Nodal turbulence within the bow is often key to this GURGLING issue....and is
not always due to a bad horn. A tenor sax is an accoustsical montrousity unless
the player, his face, his hands...and his diaphram are all working together in
harmony.
pjl