Larry Teal vs Joseph Allard
Fsaxwas9
here's a question from a teaching perspective
for those familiar with the "Larry Teal Method" as opposed to Joe
Allard based instruction, what do you think of these approaches?
I still probably feel that the "Art of Saxophone Playing" by Teal is
an essential text, along with his "Saxophonist's Workbook." I would
probably be more likely to follow the Allard based tone production
model, as explained in texts like "Developing a Personal Saxophone
Sound" by Liebman. I don't know if I would expect pre-college students
to invest both Liebman's book, and the "Art of Saxphone Playing"
though....
curious what you all think?
Shawn
TEP251Sax
>
>for those familiar with the "Larry Teal Method" as opposed to Joe
>Allard based instruction,
USE BOTH :)
In this day and age....take from both.
I studied with Joe Viola and Allard and later with Kal Opperman....from a
legit-ish thing...and you can learn from all.
It's ONLY knowledge ;)
It will assit NOT destroy.
>likely to follow the Allard based tone production
>model, as explained in texts like "Developing a Personal Saxophone
>Sound" by Liebman.
I'd say take the Liebman book for what it is. Daves theory on Allard.
That means..Joe Allard had a multi approach with teaching.
Lots of jazz guys like Liebs studied with Allard, but so did tons of legit
bass clarinet and b-way show sax player/ doublers.
But- the real thinking of this craft lies in experiencing the theory in real
life, i.e., testing its validity in the 'rough and
tumble' of the world out there.
You got to put it to use....YOUR WAY.
~ Variations on a theme...if you will :)
Joe Allard OR Teal...were brilliant human beings. Also consider- Most of us are
developing and testing theories saxophonistically everyday in our personal and
professional lives in the form of decisions and choices that we make. Many of
us may not realize the meta-cognition to be aware of 'beneath the surface'
processes that go into decision-making -TO DO IT.
I hate to sound like a" Nike" commercial, but JUST DO IT. Then watch what
happens !!! This is what _ALL_these theorys need. USE IT.
BTW-
My biggest lessons from Joe Allard...were never paid for.
Once Joe was in the Newark airport near the baggage ramp. We saw each other..
and at that point I might of only took 3 lessons with him. I was comin off a
flight, going back to Pa...and had my bari in a gig bag and my tenor in a Ray
Hyman case. ( this was the 70s )
Joe flys over to me hand out and just talking from the git-go. SO,,he drove me
into Manhatten...to Port Authority to where my bus was. He was one of the most
unique people ever. Very open, and just cool. - Like Joe Viola as well :)
I talked with Joe in a deli...at that point about many things-he was
inspirational.
Also- fwiw- he taught guys like Bennie Wallace and Dolphy amoung the hundreds.
My point...
Knowledge is knowledge.
Allard was really one to reconcile the divergent views into a more holistic
view of knowledge on any specific topic. He was spot on.This why IMHO I
say...check them all out. By sharing the "personal constructions" of "what is
out there" it may help you develop better awareness and understanding of the
diversity of the views that are out there and their possible merit in various
contexts and circumstances.THEN, put it to use the way it works FOR YOU.
Then we see the point exist via "the big picture depends upon WHO is doing the
drawing" having much merit. Some issues that come to mind, from these masters
including legitimization of myths and legitimization of fads. By doing, in
YOUR way..is the essence. ( ditto; Liebs )
Guys like Garvin Bushell were great teachers as well. He taught lots of guys
too. But no text is out from him.
Anyhow,,
Sorry for the long wind- I think about Allard and Viola and these giants
everyday.
HTH- Tim Price
Bill Barner
"Fsaxwas9" <shawna...@peoplepc.com> wrote in message
news:15d6df90.0410...@posting.google.com...
I'm familiar with the Liebman book but not with the Larry Teal books. Are
there areas where the two approaches to saxophone playing contradict each
other or are very different? How does the Teal approach to tone production
differ from the Allard model, for example?
Thanks.
ansermetniac
>Liebs studied with Allard, but so did tons of legit
>bass clarinet
Joe Allard played Bass Clarinet with the NBC symphony under Toscanini
from the early 50s to its disbandment in 1954.
He anchored the amazing clarinet section of
Alexander Williams-Principal
Harold Freeman-Second
David Weber-Third and Eb
By the time Joe Allard joined NBC that orchestra was probably the best
in the world. Playing more than 13 years with Toscanini and coming
into its own after the 1950 trans-continental tour.
Despite the quality of the orchestra and the availability of
Toscanini's hand picked succesor, Guido Cantelli, the biggest musical
ASSHOLE of the 20th century, David Sarnoff, fired Toscanini and the
orchestra after the 1953-54 season
Dave Guardala's father, Thomas, was the hand picked electrical
engineer to go to Sarnoff's townhouse in Manhattan, every Friday, to
make sure ALL his TVs would not malfucntion over the wwekend and
embarrass him in front of his friends. According to Tom, Sarnoff was
an ASSHOLE in his outside the business life too, as well as being an
anti-semite and anti-catholic. If you wanted to advance at RCA you had
to be a WASP
Abbedd
______________
E.A.F.E.
GW
I asked this same sort of of question in the SOTW forum a couple of
years ago. It should be in the archives. It got a pretty good
discussion going.
Fsaxwas9
definitive book on saxophone. It is packed with useful information -
repetoire, a great section on reed adjusting, breathing, etc. The
other Teal book I love is his Saxophonist's Workbook. There is a ton
of good stuff in here, with a detailed explanation of how you can
utilize the studies.
I do like how Liebman explains saxophone embouchure and overtone
studies, based on his study with Allard. I have to agree with Mr
Price, it's good to have mutiple approaches.
> I'm familiar with the Liebman book but not with the Larry Teal books. Are
> there areas where the two approaches to saxophone playing contradict each
> other or are very different? How does the Teal approach to tone production
> differ from the Allard model, for example?
> Thanks.
Tone production is a pretty all encompasing concept.
One thing, Teal suggests an embouchure with more use of lip
pressure/chin muscles (I think), than the more relaxed approach Allard
promoted. (Probably an oversimplification.) They both were tremendous
performers and educators.
Just my $.02
Shawn
connosax
Joe Henderson and Benny Maupin, among other jazz players, all studied
with him. He
was a great doubler himself and, at different times, played BOTH bass
clarinet and
flute in the Detroit Symphony--as a member, not a sub. Advised his
students
to study flute and clarinet and not depend on being a legit sax
specialist--a very realistic and "gigging" attitude for a noted legit
sax guru.
Brian
style or instrument was the following.
"Always remember that you are trying to or should be, to make the most
expressive musical sounds you can regardless of style or venue, reading or
improvising" and believe it or not, that is a quote right from the late
great J.A. and I'm sure that all would agree. The genius was not in the
playing and teaching of all of these greats it was in the concept and
thought process and they were all people that we just loved to spend time
with, as is our contemporary Tim Price, today..
Brian Axelrod
"connosax" <conn...@excite.com> wrote in message
news:85d40db6.0410...@posting.google.com...
DaveG
pretty good and you win, some days you try and nothing works and the
horn wins. This goes on and on and then you die and the horn wins."
-Dizzie Gillespie
Love that anecdote,hehehe.
;-)
--
John Isley
players in modern jazz and r&b are out of his camp, I think that speaks
volumes for his method. While Teal's method has merit, I personally
feel Allard's techniques were light-years beyond what anyone else has
innovated in the pedagogy of the saxophone.
Just my $.02 worth...
Peace,
John
__
"Some days you get up and put the horn to your chops and it sounds
pretty good and you win, some days you try and nothing works and the
horn wins. This goes on and on and then you die and the horn wins."
-Dizzie Gillespie
jis...@johnisley.com
jis...@nyhorns.com
http://www.johnisley.com
http://www.nyhorns.com
In article <15d6df90.0410...@posting.google.com>,
Castratta
Didn't he play with that Donald Bird guy?
Def Lil Treble Clef