Making a mouthpiece wedge?
Andrew Snapp
rumors but not sure.
Thanks
Andrew
Toby
the hape and dimensions that work for you, then mark the relevant points
with pencil on the inside of the mpc, scoop it all out and rebuild it with
epoxy putty. Epoxy putty will give you a number of hours before it sets
hard, in which time you can make small adjustments and fine tune it.
Toby
"Andrew Snapp" <ars...@shentel.net> wrote in message
news:103t725...@corp.supernews.com...
Barry Levine
<ars...@shentel.net> wrote:
Hello Andrew
A wedge can make the mouthpiece play easier, louder and brighter, but may
thin out the lower register, making subtoning more difficult; depending on
design.
I've made "wedges" for my own Link and other mouthpieces with plumbers
epoxy, which lets you mold it to fit the mouthpiece exactly.
Plumbers epoxy, in case you don't know, is claylike, and has 2 components
that you knead together thoroughly, after which it stiffens in about 15
minutes; although takes about 24 hr to completely harden.
If you use plumbers epoxy, make a rough wedge that's too large, and when it
hardens, pop it out of the mpc and grind it to shape. I've used thin plastic
wrap to keep it from sticking to the mouthpiece, possibly a coating of soap
on the mpc would work as well.
The plumbers epoxy is hard enough after about 15-20 minutes to pop out your
unfinished wedge and do some trimming and shaping with hand tools if you
wish. Or wait until it's completely hard and use a grinding wheel.
On my Link, the mouthpiece chamber gets a bit narrower towards its tip, so
that the wedges are popped out by pushing them towards the rear. It's just
the opposite on a Selmer C* Soloist.
For a starting point, try a wedge that's about 1/3 to 1/2 the length of the
mouthpiece's window, and place it roughly in the middle.
Barry
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my stuff: http://users.norwoodlight.com/barrylevine/
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MojoBari
plumbers' epoxies. These set in ~5 minutes. I like the fast sets,
but you need to have some good tools and skills to get the shape you
want in a few minutes. I always try a test baffle first with
temporary putty (like poster hanging putty).
Barry Levine
kwbra...@yahoo.com (MojoBari) wrote:
> you need to have some good tools and skills to get the shape you
> want in a few minutes. I always try a test baffle first with
> temporary putty (like poster hanging putty).
What I was suggesting is a wedge/baffle insert that can be easily removed
rather than a permanent installation. The taper of many mouthpieces
(including Links) make this possible - the baffle insert will stay in by
friction. This only works of course for a baffle insert that goes to the
full width of the bore.
So there's no rush to get the shape right while the plumbers putty is soft.
After it sets, one pushes out the rough oversized baffle and shapes it down
to size with whatever tools are appropriate.
BL
Nom DePlume
For a temporary baffle try using Sculpey. It's a non-toxic modeling clay
that you can bake in the oven to harden after you get it to where you
want it. Someone else in this thread mentioned using plastic wrap under
the clay. That's a good idea since the Sculpey tends to stick, and
prying it out would otherwise distort it. Just remember to remove the
plastic before baking. After it's hardened you can file it down fairly
easily. Oh, almost forgot, it doesn't harden unless you bake it.
Dave
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Toby
vaseline or cork grease before applying the putty if you were intending to
make it removable?
Toby
"Barry Levine" <barry...@DeleteThisSpamBlockNorwoodlight.com> wrote in
message news:40409e04$1...@corp.newsgroups.com...
PT
> In article <3278ad8c.0402...@posting.google.com> ,
> kwbra...@yahoo.com (MojoBari) wrote:
>
>> you need to have some good tools and skills to get the shape you
>> want in a few minutes. I always try a test baffle first with
>> temporary putty (like poster hanging putty).
>
>
> What I was suggesting is a wedge/baffle insert that can be easily removed
> rather than a permanent installation. The taper of many mouthpieces
> (including Links) make this possible - the baffle insert will stay in by
> friction. This only works of course for a baffle insert that goes to the
> full width of the bore.
Back in the 70s, I knew a mouthpiece manufacturer from near Leeds, who made
a mouthpiece that came with 4 or 5 different size screw in baffles. I can't
remember his name, but I wish I'd bought one of these what a great idea.
Phil? Ron? Dave? Johannes? Monsieur Vandoren? Why not try this? I bet
there's a market for such a beast.
Best regards
Pete Thomas
To reply privately you can either decode this address:
pt-at-petethomas-dot-co-dot-uk
Or reply via the 'contact" button on my site:
www.petethomas.co.uk
Barry Levine
<kym...@yhc.att.ne.j> wrote:
> Barry, do you think it would help to lubricate the inside of the mpc with
> vaseline or cork grease before applying the putty if you were intending to
> make it removable?
>
> Toby
I put a layer of thin plastic food wrap between the putty and the mouthpiece
to prevent sticking. Vaseline or cork grease might work as well.
Re the suggestion to use "Sculpey" (soft plastic that can be hardened by
baking) I tried something similar called Fimo. The problem was that the
stuff was soft so that removing the baffle from the mouthpiece tended to
distort its shape before it could be hardened. Maybe Sculpey is better.
BL
MLeamac
but where to place it. Dave Williams pulled my coat to silly putty. Very
temporary, and it works. Easy to use. But I don't like to place it where a
traditional baffle might be normally found. I like to put it far toward the
back of the throat, in effect lengthening the lay, and making a flat chamber in
which the air column is straight and not deflected. This gives the same effect
as a baffle (more focus, altissimo, etc) but without some of the negatives
already mentioned. On the other hand, I really prefer no baffle, temporary or
otherwise. Where do you guys insert your improvised baffles?
Leon Mack
Barry Levine
(MLeamac) wrote:
> I like to put it far toward the
> back of the throat, in effect lengthening the lay, and making a flat chamber
in
> which the air column is straight and not deflected. This gives the same
effect
> as a baffle (more focus, altissimo, etc) but without some of the negatives
> already mentioned. On the other hand, I really prefer no baffle, temporary or
> otherwise. Where do you guys insert your improvised baffles?
> Leon Mack
Varies... still learning what works.
- On a Rico Royal Metalite Tenor mpc, I extended the baffle straight back to
the drop off point at the throat and actually built it up at the baffle step
point - creating a somewhat flat chamber similar to what you describe.
(Other modifications to this mpc include: building up the baffle a bit
closer to the tip rail - the original design has a somewhat steep baffle
slope and a high baffle just behind the tip rail, which creates a stuffiness
in the mouthpiece. (I hope this makes sense, a picture would be better.)
Also enlarged the chamber in the throat, and in the baffle region by
scooping out the sides; and narrowed the side rails. However the mpc needs
more bottom response, I think the baffle overall is too low.) The mouthpiece
at this point is somewhat similar to a Lakey, albeit with more stable
intonation.
- On a Selmer C* alto mpc, a wedge baffle starting about 1 cm back from the
tip and ending about 1.5 cm before the window ends at the throat. This was
one of the first baffles I did that worked well for me. The step is about 3
mm.
- On a Ponzol M1 tenor, a small curved baffle back at the throat made my
lower register easier - the intent was that a bernoulli effect here would
increase the airstream speed just underneath the base of the reed vamp, to
help the lower register response - and it seems to work. This mouthpiece
already features a stepped baffle, and this addition is just prior to the
drop off of the step.
BTW, one problem in discussing these things; a "low baffle" being one that's
closer to the reed, like a low ceiling I suppose; yet it feels natural to
talk about building "up" a baffle, even though this makes it "lower."
Barry Levine
--
my stuff: http://users.norwoodlight.com/barrylevine/
MojoBari
>
> - On a Ponzol M1 tenor, a small curved baffle back at the throat made my
> lower register easier - the intent was that a bernoulli effect here would
> increase the airstream speed just underneath the base of the reed vamp, to
> help the lower register response - and it seems to work. This mouthpiece
> already features a stepped baffle, and this addition is just prior to the
> drop off of the step.
>
> BTW, one problem in discussing these things; a "low baffle" being one that's
> closer to the reed, like a low ceiling I suppose; yet it feels natural to
> talk about building "up" a baffle, even though this makes it "lower."
I'm a believer that the Bernoulli effect is significant. But mostly
to help get the reed vibration started by helping near the tip.
Farther away from the tip, the velocity slows down considerably due to
the increasing cross sectional area. Like 10-100 X slower. But the
results are more important than the theory when it comes to
mouthpieces.
The most common terminology calls a high baffle closer to the reed.
Thus, building up a baffle does indeed make it higher.
Gregg W. Jackson
> Phil? Ron? Dave? Johannes? Monsieur Vandoren? Why not try this? I bet
> there's a market for such a beast.
If by "Phil" you mean Phil Barone, he reworked an Otto Link for me a
few years ago and made a removeable plastic baffle for it.
I also would consider the Runyon spoiler to be a removeable baffle
with some extra hardware attached.
There's also a company in Texas named Mouthpiece Works
(http://mouthpieceworks.com) that makes removeable baffles. They offer
them in different sizes to fit different types of mouthpieces and with
different heights and contours.
Gregg W. Jackson
PT
> PT <re...@viawebsite.com> wrote in message
> news:<BC66A104.494A%re...@viawebsite.com>...
>> Phil? Ron? Dave? Johannes? Monsieur Vandoren? Why not try this? I bet
>> there's a market for such a beast.
>
> If by "Phil" you mean Phil Barone, he reworked an Otto Link for me a
> few years ago and made a removeable plastic baffle for it.
I've remembered now, it was Joe Walton who made mouthpieces that came with 5
or 6 baffles of different heights that could be screwed in and out of the
mouthpiece. Has anyone seen these ever?
MojoBari
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3705048690&category=16234
PT
> One was just on eBay:
>
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3705048690&category=16234
Well, there you go. I would have bought that just to put in my museum
SDA
nicely to the contours of the door as it is tapped in with a hammer.