Importance of setting proper key heights
sax...@my-deja.com
found that middle C sounded very weak and stuffy. That seemed odd to
me, since it never had that problem before. After having the keys
checked and re-checked for leaks by two different sax technicians, I
made an interesting discovery.
What I discovered, is that when the middle C key is depressed, most of
the sound emanates through the open B tonehole. As a result, if the B
key is not open enough, C will sound weak and stuffy. I confirmed this
by playing middle C, and opening the B key a little more with my other
hand--the note improved immediately. Getting the B key to open a bit
more was simple--I just removed a bit of cork from the foot of the
key.
The improvement in middle C with this simple adjustment was dramatic.
Encouraged by this successful result, I decided to raise the key height
of my low C# key, as low C# also sounded a bit stuffy, as well as being
about 30 cents flat. This adjustment was even simpler to accomplish,
using a pivot adjustment screw. This cleared up the note, and had the
added benefit of raising the pitch slightly.
I have now come to appreciate the importance of setting key heights
properly. What I found, after comparing the key heights on my Mk VI to
several other "killer 6's", is that my sax tech set up my horn with the
keys set in a lower, or more closed position. When I take my sax back
to him for it's post-overhaul checkup, I will have him adjust the key
heights, to better suit my preferences, and to "open up" the sound.
SaxKat
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Stephen Howard
I hope you went on to adjust the cork of the A key too, otherwise you
may well now have 'double action' on the B key ( a characteristic
'clonk' as the key takes up the free movement before it connects with
the bar that closes the auxilliary key above it ).
If you adjust the A key then you get double action between the A key
and the Bis key, which has to be adjusted by either raising the right
hand stack or altering the adjustment on the bis key arm between the
G# and Auxilliary F key.
Setting the key height on a sax is a tricky business - which is one of
the reasons I tend to ask proficient players about their preferences
before I start taking corks off. It's also good practice to ask the
client to spend half an hour in the workshop to fine tune the action
to their taste - upon which the horn, mouthpiece and embouchure will
have a significant effect.
It's a surprisingly common mistake that people set the action too low
in the mistaken belief that it makes for a faster response - there are
far better ways to accomplish this without the harsh payoff that often
comes from a low action.
For those of you who do like a low action, a weak C can be corrected
to some degree by careful choice of reflector type and diameter on the
B key.
Regards,
Stephen Howard - Woodwind repairs & period restorations
Emails to: shwoodwind{who is at}bigfoot{dot}com
Kevin May
disregard this and put them to low. there is a trade off with playability
but it is worth it. I usually like to be able to slip a #2 pencil eraser
under my stacks and I open the low d# and c keys and bell keys as far as
they will go before hitting the key guard. opening the lower keys opens the
bottom dramatically. but be careful you don't put the horn out of tune. I
have two mark 6 tenors, both early 60's, one is opened up and one is fairly
standard, you can defiantly play smoother on the closed one but the tone of
the open horn is much bigger
--
Thank You,
Kevin May
Kevin May and The Deaconairs
Swing, Big Band, Rock-N--Roll, Blues
High Energy! High Style!
www.blast-o-phone.com
<sax...@my-deja.com> wrote in message news:93lic1$4ot$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
MojoBari
octaves, sharper. If it was flat and stuffy, great. Otherwise, now
you have a tradeoff to deal with. The low C key needs to find a height
compromise since the the octave D's are not usually in tune with each
other.
Dave Woodford
(Rob Kirschner,here in Los Angeles) that the keys have to be open enough
for the horn to "speak". Too many repairmen in this area set the key
height too low, to satisfy the "need for speed". A carefully done
"opening" of the key heights can make your horn really sing.
'\o
Dave Woodford
Mister Lucky
sax...@my-deja.com wrote:
[snipped]
>
> I have now come to appreciate the importance of setting key heights
> properly. What I found, after comparing the key heights on my Mk VI to
> several other "killer 6's", is that my sax tech set up my horn with the
> keys set in a lower, or more closed position. When I take my sax back
> to him for it's post-overhaul checkup, I will have him adjust the key
> heights, to better suit my preferences, and to "open up" the sound.
true, true. i bought a transitional 6M from one of conn's final assemblers
(the guys who put all the woodwinds together) about four months ago. when he
sold it to me he promised it would play great, and that the key heights were
exact conn factory spec. well, it's beautiful, and the pads are fine, but it
plays like a dead thing. i have a nickel-plated one about 2000 serial nos.
away from this one, and it is just great! so, i know this one should have
potential, and am sending it to a friend who knows her stuff for an
adjustment of key heights...
perhaps this factory spec. is why conns of the 40s and 50s were not regarded
as well as the earlier ones?
bill
ps. i am trying to fund a vanagon westfalia for my wife and son (so we don't
have to sell the pickup!). please see my website at:
http://www.scruznet.com/~cikasper/pics/mpcs/mpcs.html all prices negotiable.
sax...@my-deja.com
always looking for sax techs that know their stuff, and perhaps she
could do a good job adjusting the key heights on my Mk VI.
Jeff
In article <944kv5$6og$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>,
thesubu...@webtv.net
any disadvantage to having a "too open" key height? Assuming you could
smoothly play big key heights, would this sound be advantagous? Does
anyone have any anectdotes of people with extreme key heights and open
action?
Hmmmm .......
HOST Comp Tanker
of music, this may not be a big issue, but in most that I deal with it is quite
significant.
I'm taking as a given here that you are aware that key height (or more
properly, pad height above tone holes) is a fundamental part of saxophone
intonation. What may look funky and irregular to the untrained eye is actually
perfectly normal, and arrived at only after a century or more of
experimentation/trial and error.
I once took delivery of a used horn that had been "regularlized", with all pad
heights set more or less the same to enable a smooth "ripple" effect when
running up or down the horn. Unfortunately, this cosmetic adjustment (which may
have had some "smoothness of fingering" effect for the previous owner) was
accompanied by a general souring of the intonation of the base scale of the
instrument.
(Mind you, this was a good thing for me, the smart consumer, since I noticed
the problem and figured that it was the cause of the "problem" horn's "terminal
intonation" problem. In effect, this "obvious" adjustment messed things up
enough to keep people from wanting to purchase said horn at the appropriate
price. Enter T. Stibal, who notices what has been done, picks it up at a lower
price point, gets it regulated, and "Viola!" (or is that "'Cello!"?), problem
solved and depression of value removed.)
I've often thought about a way to both have the cake of a smooth action (like
on the soprano clarinet or flute) and still maintain the tuning height of the
horn's pads. Incidentally, the same jagged pad positioning also exists on the
bass clarinet, albeit with much smaller tone holes. While it could be done, I
don't think that the freight is worth the final effect.
Without redesigning the acoustic portion of the sax (not practical in my eyes),
you're left with some sort of "shadow" fingering system that rides above the
normal pads (like some of the keys on the sax do today), and that would move
certain pads different distances while still maintaining uniform key height.
(Cams and levers would do the "adjusting" between the uniform key movement and
the actual (greater or lesser) movement of the pads themselves.)
In effect, such a system would "disconnect" the pads from any "direct" movement
by a finger. I.E., you would no longer push on a touchpiece attached to the top
of a pad, as you do now. From a mechanical engineering standpoint, it could be
done and still retain the look and general fingering patterns of the horn. But,
it would add additional weight in the implementation, and a lot more complexity
to the design, and both would drive the costs up further than what they are
today. In short, it ain't gonna happen any time soon.
But, cheer up. You can always start playing an old (as in early 1900's) Conn
horn. You want a big "fat" sound, the easiest way to get there is to purchase
one of these bargains, invest a couple of hundred in an overhaul, and then
commence blowing people away with your "new sound". Funky they may be and may
feel in your hands (Oh my God, how funky they are!), but you will love the
sound.
Terry L. Stibal, formerly a "Selmer Mk VI Forever" kind of guy, but now the
Colonel's biggest fan...
toby
to compensate for tuning deficencies due to compromises (unavoidable) in
designing the bore of a horn. Key heights play a significant role in the
tuning of the instrument, but matter less and less as the keys are
progressively opened--I believe it's an exponential relationship. And since
most of the keys of the sax are tied together with clutches it is often not
possible to set ideal key heights without messing up the tuning of connected
keys. So it's not really a question of just opening those suckers up as far
as you can--there's a delicate art of balance involved.
--
Toby
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"HOST Comp Tanker" <hostcom...@aol.comnojunk> wrote in message
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toby
the note if it gets too sharp. This will not "stuff up" the sound anywhere
near as much as a low key height but will effectively flatten the note if it
is too sharp.
--
Toby
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"MojoBari" <mojo...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
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Mister Lucky
sax...@my-deja.com wrote:
> Bill: Would you mind revealing the identity of your friend? I'm
> always looking for sax techs that know their stuff, and perhaps she
> could do a good job adjusting the key heights on my Mk VI.
>
> Jeff
jeff, i tried to email you at your deja.com address, and it came back
underliverable. email me...
bill
Darryl
I asked my local tech to do that for one particular note and he did
not want to. Could you explain the technique? What material do you
use for the shim? How do you attach it? Is the shim a simple ring,
or do you shape it to fit the tone hole chimney? The G note on my
tenor is about 20 cents sharp. Do you have a ballpark estimate of the
shim thickness I should try as a first pass? Thanks in advance.
Darryl
On Mon, 22 Jan 2001 17:11:48 GMT, "toby" <kymart...@gol.com>
wrote: