C-Melody Saxes. Why no interest?
bernie
mine. There's a nicely restored old Conn C-Melody in our local Sax
shop. He said he might buy it, and I told him they were unpopular
(and therefore?) rare, and he asked, why? I don't know why. Do you?
Bernie
Mark Seigal
They are notoriously out of tune
Craig Dickson
... when played with inappropriate mouthpieces, or when regulated by
someone who may be perfectly competent to perform maintenance on a modern
horn but who knows nothing about vintage instruments.
A C-melody in good shape from one of the better makers is a perfectly good
instrument, but it must be played with a C-melody mouthpiece. Since you
don't come across such things every day, and used C-melodies often don't
come with their original mouthpieces, people often try to play them with
tenor or alto mouthpieces, resulting in severe intonation problems.
The main reason for the lack of popularity is that musicians generally
don't want to play an instrument for which they can't get work. As I
recall, Sax originally intended there to be an entire family of saxophones
in F and C, but such a family never developed; instead, the Eb and Bb
instruments became the standard band instruments, and that's what arrangers
write for. (There are a few rare examples of the F mezzo-soprano, but I
don't think there was ever an F baritone, so it was never possible to build
a complete sax section out of F and C instruments.) I don't know of any
modern players who exclusively play C-melody or C soprano; they always play
an Eb or Bb voice most of the time, and use the C for the occasional solo
that suits it.
The C-melody's period of greatest popularity was the saxophone craze of the
1920s, during which it (and the less-common C soprano) were marketed as
saxophones for playing scores written for vocals and other non-transposing
instruments. That popularity came to an end with the onset of the Great
Depression, and C-melody saxophones have not been manufactured since then.
Craig
Richard Bush
I'm not sure if it was Adolph Saxes wish or one of several hare brained
ideas of Conn, but there were indeed plans to have two families of
saxophones, the Eb-Bb keyed instruments for bands and the F-C pitched
family for playing in orchestral keys (more sharps than flats).
The C pitched tenor (C melody) is called by many an out of tune
instrument. Few makers made them and some of those weren't the greatest
of saxophone makers. Having an appropriate mouthpiece would surely be
paramount to realizing the original tuning. Another possibility of
having this reputation of being badly out of tune might be that only
dilettantes and poor players played them.
Parts, real, legitimate orchestrated or (bandstrated) parts were never
generated for the instrument. A player who had such an instrument in the
school band probably ended up playing a flute or an oboe part. Not a
good place for a saxophone to be sticking its nose into.
To make it short, the C instrument never found a nitch beyond some
peoples' parlors. It was and still is a bastard instrument. I've worked
on them, restored one (will never do that again) and after playing it
for a while desided that it was neither fish nor foul. It wasn't a tenor
and it wasn't an alto. Kind of like having a two-headed child to raise.
Auhind
I play jazz on the C-melody, with a C-melody mouthpiece. It has its own
distinct flavor, and like any other saxophone, requires a certain degree of
stylistic definition. It can be very lyrical and mellow. The challenge is to
find a musical personality for this horn, much like finding one for a sopranino
or a contra-bass!
PaulC135
To quote the Hertz ad, "Not Exactly"
The F-C family originated with Adolphe Sax, and there were some members of
this family made in the 19th century. Almost all the instrument companies in
the 20th century made them, including the best companies of Conn, Buescher,
Selmer (Paris), Evette-Schaeffer and others. They were not played out of tune
when contemporary instruments as evidenced by recordings that exist of C melody
players. There were plenty of parts and music written for the C melody,
including some orchestra, band, and plenty of solo and ensemble music. My
library has quite a few pieces. It found quite a bit of acceptance in the
1920s and was played so extensively that it was the biggest selling saxophone
for quite some years. Not a bastard instrument at all, but one whose qualities
fell from appreciation after the Sax craze, as did interest in the bass,
soprano and other saxophone sizes and pitches.
Paul Cohen
em anon
>
> A friend has just taken up the sax, he's borrowed an old tenor of
> mine. There's a nicely restored old Conn C-Melody in our local Sax
> shop. He said he might buy it, and I told him they were unpopular
> (and therefore?) rare, and he asked, why? I don't know why. Do you?
> Bernie
They combine the worst tonal characteristics of both the alto and tenor in
on convenient package. And include none of the many positive attributes
of our 2 favorite instruments.
Jim Buchholz
alto type tuneable neck. Excellent horn with a "more fuzzy" sound. Has
its own character in the low C to Bb note range. Excellent modern type
sound is obtained using the Woodwind/Brasswind mouthpiece found on page
73 of recent cat...made by Leblanc with Woodwind label. I use the
WWCM(B6) one which is more open than the B5 and B4---B5 gives I believe
the older sound.
I use it most often playing with guitar players who seem to only know
the concert key of E----much easier to play than an alto in all
sharps...at least for me.
I also have a Conn C Melody with tenor type neck made in 1916 which
plays with more of a tenor sound on same mouthpiece--and well in tune up
and down. My Buescher 1925 C Melody I have some notes on it I have to
favor.
Only time I get to play it in a big band setting is when I play in an
old-timer group with charts from the early 1900s--especially some sousa
charts which were written for C Melody at the time. Mostly I use the
horn for church playing right from the sheet music with no transposing.
The horn helps me learn to play sharps and flats keys a lot.
Jim Buchholz
TEP251Sax
Hi Chris- I would love to hear that SOUND.What kinda tunes do you play on it ?
Hope all is well and going your way-Tim Price
Auhind
What strength reed do you use with your WWBW C-Melody mouthpiece? I also have
the Conn with the tunable neck, and a "nameless" mouthpiece which plays in tune
but has no projection whatsoever. I've been toying with the idea of getting
the WW mouthpiece and your post has more or less clinched it for me.
Auhind
Yo Tim. Good to hear from you. Actually the C-melody sound is sorta like
Warne Marsh with balls. I'm going to try a Woodwind Brasswind mouthpiece to
get some projection out of the horn. It's an old Conn with the tunable
neck...weird looking. Get some old Bix Beiderbecke stuff with Frankie
Trumbauer on C-melody. You'd swear he's playing an alto. Hmmmm, lesseee, I'd
say his sound is like a naked woman singing while washing her hair in the
country on a July afternoon............. OOOO BOP SH'BAM!
Been playing my Cannonball silverplated tenor a bit. A lot of horn for the
money. I'm both shocked and pleased to think of what my Mark VIs are worth. I
recall you had a Mark VI at Berklee (and long hair, hahahaha). Am having my
$200 1938 Martin Handcraft Alto overhauled. Talk about a sweet horn!!! WOW!
Later, Chris
PDC Sensha
Hell, I always thought that the reason why the C melody never caught on was
that Bird never played one...
While the F baritone may not have existed, the original bass sax was pitched in
C, made by the brass-oriented Belgian himself. That gives us the soprano in C,
the alto in F (written parts for same exist), the tenor in C (of which many
horns exist), and the bass in C (of which at least one existed). Time to start
testing all of those really sharp baritones out there with the electronic
tuner...
Terry L. Stibal
pdcs...@aol.com
TEP251Sax
Auhund spoke........
>Later, Chris
Hey Chris...Yea Warne Marsh-hmmmm...There is this cat Dave Pietro who has
recorded some modern stuff(w/Kenny Werner) and he sounds very cool.Great chops
to-on C melody.
Those Martin alto's are nice to..didn't Art Pepper use one of those ?
Also-these guys in the n/g probally have no idea how damn fantastic it is to
be able to run into old jazz buddys on the computer.Folks let me tell ya Chris
and I know each other sinse1969-
in Boston !! (yea,,when I had really long hair -hahah )Chris is one burning
saxophone player ,his playing always knocked me out.
I always prefered a Balanced Tenor to a 6 ,,tho right now I have got a
balanced tenor that knocks me out !!
I also heard Bill Street makes a C melody mouthpiece- I don't know man I got
enuf to do playing my stritch..u dig ?
Later Chris !! >Tim Price
em anon
> Am having my
> $200 1938 Martin Handcraft Alto overhauled. Talk about a sweet horn!!! WOW!
>
Amen on that. I have a 1939 Comm II Handcraft--great compact sound and
in the same ballpark with Selmer Supers,etc. What an underrated horn!
Paul Lindemeyer
> Yo Tim. Good to hear from you. Actually the C-melody sound is sorta like
> Warne Marsh with balls. I'm going to try a Woodwind Brasswind mouthpiece to
> get some projection out of the horn. It's an old Conn with the tunable
> neck...weird looking.
Lately I've been using the Next to Next to Last C-Melody Ever Made (239k
Conn, 1930) on my relaxed Sunday brunch gig.
> Get some old Bix Beiderbecke stuff with Frankie
> Trumbauer on C-melody. You'd swear he's playing an alto. Hmmmm, lesseee, I'd
> say his sound is like a naked woman singing while washing her hair in the
> country on a July afternoon............. OOOO BOP SH'BAM!
Tram was a jewel. I think of him as jazz' Rudy Wiedoeft, a link (and I
do mean Otto -- he was an early endorser) with the vaudeville and light
classical traditions. He was every bit Rudy's equal in tone and
technique, plus he swung and -- as Prez said -- "always told a story."
These young Gothics in search of the "dark" tone should get hip to this
progression of tonal influences:
Wiedoeft -> Trumbauer -> Young -> Getz and "The Brothers" (especially Al
Cohn)
You hear "The Sound" (and I don't mean Lon gIsland) in all of them.
Besides Bix, you hear Tram mostly with Paul Whiteman. There was also a
bootleg CD of the "3T's" band he had with Jack Teagarden in the mid-30s.
The sax world lost a giant when Tram decided to follow his other great
love, aviation, and become an important man in the FAA.
--
Paul Lindemeyer <pau...@cyburban.com>
CELEBRATING THE SAXOPHONE: The Book
100 YEARS FROM TODAY: The Record
C.G. CONN Saxophones "Choice of the Artist"
Paul Lindemeyer
FWIW, the sax section of the Woody Herman "Blues Band" (circa 1940)
endorsed Martins (including Woody's double, the alto).
Craig Dickson
>Few makers made [C-melody saxes] and some of those weren't the greatest
>of saxophone makers.
Well, some of the makers of altos and tenors aren't the greatest of
saxophone makers either. Today, one could point to any number of cheap
Asian brands, and perhaps some Italian ones, too. C-melodies were made by
Conn, Buescher, Martin, and King -- basically a Who's Who of American
saxophone makers of the time, responsible not only for their own brands but
also most of the stencils -- and I believe Selmer Paris made some too,
though they are rather rare.
>Having an appropriate mouthpiece would surely be
>paramount to realizing the original tuning.
Yes, as with any saxophone. Not to mention clarinets and others.
>Another possibility of
>having this reputation of being badly out of tune might be that only
>dilettantes and poor players played them.
And to disprove this, just pull out some Biederbecke records and listen to
Frank Trumbauer's C-melody solos.
Craig
lec...@unicom.net
tep2...@aol.com (TEP251Sax) wrote:
[snip]
> I also heard Bill Street makes a C melody mouthpiece- I don't know man I got
> enuf to do playing my stritch..u dig ?
> Later Chris !! >Tim Price
The Bill Street mouthpiece is nice. They are available from Frances Perry who
advertises in the classifieds of Saxophone Journal. I believe the facings run
from a 4 to a 7 or so. They cost about $60-65. Somewhat more of a modern
sound than the old Bueschers or Conn Eagles and more free blowing (i.e. more
"projection")(but perhaps without the richer, darker sound ...)
Unfortunately, since I've never tried the _other_ modern source, the ones
sold through WWBW, I can't compare the two either.
Paul L, are you still using a Bill Street mouthpiece with your new ("next to
the next to the last") Conn C melody?
-----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==-----
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bernie
Now then Emanon,
What are the worst tonal characteristics of the alto and the tenor,
and what are their positive attributes?
Bernie
Jim Buchholz
Jim Buchholz
Jim Buchholz
Jim Buchholz
Jim Buchholz
author said that in technique and style Tram never made it out of the
1930s and never would have amounted to much of a player in the 1940s and
1950s.
Jim Buchholz
Paul Lindemeyer
> tep2...@aol.com (TEP251Sax) wrote:
> > I also heard Bill Street makes a C melody mouthpiece- I don't know man I got
> > enuf to do playing my stritch..u dig ?
> The Bill Street mouthpiece is nice. They are available from Frances Perry who
> advertises in the classifieds of Saxophone Journal. I believe the facings run
> from a 4 to a 7 or so. They cost about $60-65. Somewhat more of a modern
> sound than the old Bueschers or Conn Eagles and more free blowing (i.e. more
> "projection")(but perhaps without the richer, darker sound ...)
> Unfortunately, since I've never tried the _other_ modern source, the ones
> sold through WWBW, I can't compare the two either.
> Paul L, are you still using a Bill Street mouthpiece with your new ("next to
> the next to the last") Conn C melody?
Yep. Sometimes I use the old Eagle with 1/2 strength harder reeds, but
just around the house. Outside the house, it's the Street. (oh you
clever boy, Paul :-)...)
Paul Lindemeyer
Don't get suckered in by the "myth of progress" in jazz, is all I can
say.
David Brown and Barbara Solomon
>
> I checked out a book in the local library about Bix and actually the
> author said that in technique and style Tram never made it out of the
> 1930s and never would have amounted to much of a player in the 1940s and
> 1950s.
> Jim Buchholz
Don't believe everything you read!
David
Mitch
Paul Lindemeyer wrote:
> em anon wrote:
> >
> > auh...@aol.com (Auhind) wrote:
> > > Am having my
> > > $200 1938 Martin Handcraft Alto overhauled. Talk about a sweet horn!!! WOW!
> > >
> >
> > Amen on that. I have a 1939 Comm II Handcraft--great compact sound and
> > in the same ballpark with Selmer Supers,etc. What an underrated horn!
>
> FWIW, the sax section of the Woody Herman "Blues Band" (circa 1940)
> endorsed Martins (including Woody's double, the alto).
>
Tex Beneke played Martins, "The Martin", I think. I finally got my teacher to put his
old NY Meyer 5 mpc on my Handcraft and give it spin. In capable hands, it sounded
great! Almost as good as his Mk VI - almost. I must work on my chops. And breath.
Chops and breath - and ...where's the Bis key again?
Craig Dickson
>I checked out a book in the local library about Bix and actually the
>author said that in technique and style Tram never made it out of the
>1930s and never would have amounted to much of a player in the 1940s and
>1950s.
Well, I don't suppose he would have turned into a bopper, but there's
nothing wrong with sticking to your own way of doing things if the
alternative is chasing fashions or buying into someone else's ideas of
"progress". Tram was a great player in his day, and certainly refuted quite
thoroughly the notion that the C-melody sax was an unplayable, out of tune
piece of junk.
Craig
Andy Harman
wrote:
>Don't get suckered in by the "myth of progress" in jazz, is all I can
>say.
I decided a long time ago not to listen to music with a slide rule or
stroboscope. Boy am I glad! "Progess" as measured in the computer
age: "Oh yeah? Well I can play 128th-note triplets at an absolute
tempo of 240.6 beats per minute"....
It's interesting that all of the progress has not produced another
Frankie Trumbauer, Adrian Rollini, or Bix Beiderbecke, and the century
is almost over.
Andy
-------------------------------------------
Please reply to aharman at hhcustom dot com
-------------------------------------------
Andy Harman
wrote:
>I checked out a book in the local library about Bix and actually the
>author said that in technique and style Tram never made it out of the
>1930s and never would have amounted to much of a player in the 1940s and
>1950s.
Well perhaps not, if it were up to the author if your book to
determine what "much of a player" is. I think the statement (although
you probably paraphrased it and I can't see the original context)
sounds a little silly. Taken literally, it implies that he would have
gotten worse as a player; taken in the relative sense it implies that
what the other players did surpassed him, and he would not have "kept
up"... which is the implication I read out of it. I think it's
irrelevent, moot, and silly.
Paul Lindemeyer
> Jim Buchholz <buch...@means.net> wrote:
> >I checked out a book in the local library about Bix and actually the
> >author said that in technique and style Tram never made it out of the
> >1930s and never would have amounted to much of a player in the 1940s and
> >1950s.
> Well perhaps not, if it were up to the author if your book to
> determine what "much of a player" is. I think the statement (although
> you probably paraphrased it and I can't see the original context)
> sounds a little silly. Taken literally, it implies that he would have
> gotten worse as a player; taken in the relative sense it implies that
> what the other players did surpassed him, and he would not have "kept
> up"... which is the implication I read out of it. I think it's
> irrelevent, moot, and silly.
I totally agree. Tram was active in the studios as late as 1945, but
fashions in music had kind of left him behind. He would have had to play
someone else's style, rather than his own. But this says more about the
business of music than the art.
Perhaps if he had lived past 1956 he might have been rediscovered as the
stylistic grandfather of the "cool school". Imagine him doing tasty
standards with Chet Baker, or at least recreating the 30s sounds in
Hi-Fi for the Formerly Hip.
Ted Thompson
>
> Jim Buchholz wrote:
> >
> > I checked out a book in the local library about Bix and actually the
> > author said that in technique and style Tram never made it out of the
> > 1930s and never would have amounted to much of a player in the 1940s and
> > 1950s.
>
> Don't get suckered in by the "myth of progress" in jazz, is all I can
> say.
>
>
> Paul Lindemeyer <pau...@cyburban.com>
> CELEBRATING THE SAXOPHONE: The Book
> 100 YEARS FROM TODAY: The Record
> C.G. CONN Saxophones "Choice of the Artist"
Bernard Savoie
family of saxes.
Richard Bush wrote:
>
> I'm not sure if it was Adolph Saxes wish or one of several hare brained
> ideas of Conn, but there were indeed plans to have two families of
> saxophones, the Eb-Bb keyed instruments for bands and the F-C pitched
> family for playing in orchestral keys (more sharps than flats).
It was Adolphe Sax's original intent to have 2 families of saxes C-F
and Bb-Eb. His idea was to develop the C-F family for symphonic
orchestral use and the Bb-Eb for the military band. This idea is really
not "hare brained" since it deals with a question of looking for ideal
tuning conditions. Since the orchestral instruments (strings, most
woodwinds) are basically C instruments, it stands to reason that a
family built around the C-F would be easier to work with in these
conditions. This is not an unheard of situation. Just think about the
use of the A clarinet in the orchestra rather than today's more common
Bb, or the C vs Bb trumpet, which is predominant in our band oriented
music education system.
> The C pitched tenor (C melody) is called by many an out of tune
> instrument. Few makers made them and some of those weren't the greatest
> of saxophone makers. Having an appropriate mouthpiece would surely be
> paramount to realizing the original tuning. Another possibility of
> having this reputation of being badly out of tune might be that only
> dilettantes and poor players played them.
The main problem with tuning these instruments in a modern context has
more to do with the modern tuning which has slowly crept up during the
last century to today's standard of A=440. (Even among modern ensembles
this is not always the used standard, the Germans are notorious for
tuning their instruments at higher levels). Since most of the available
instruments in C-F were built at a time when the general tuning was
lower, it creates a lot of difficulties for using them with modern
instruments, including piano. It would be a little like trying to play a
violin built during the baroque period in a modern symphony.
If, after the 1920's sax craze, builders had kept making the C-melody
sax (C tenor), we might have a less awesome beast to master today. But,
like all things dealing with economics, builders tend to build what
people ask for and drop what people don't buy. We should probably blame
other factors, such as the advent of recording, radio, movies and
eventually television for the drop in usage of musical instruments in
general [Wasn't there a time where every home had a piano?] (g)
> Parts, real, legitimate orchestrated or (bandstrated) parts were never
> generated for the instrument. A player who had such an instrument in the
> school band probably ended up playing a flute or an oboe part. Not a
> good place for a saxophone to be sticking its nose into.
I would not say never. Most of the orchestral music of the 19th Century
and even in the early 20th C. which used the saxophone were written out
for C-F saxes. The best example, take a look at Richard Strauss' (not a
bad reference I would think) score of his Symphonia domestica (1903).
The original parts were for C soprano, F alto, F baritone & C Bass. If
memory serves me right, Ravel's Bolero (1927) in it's original form was
orchestrated for F sopranino, soprano & tenor (I can't recall if these
were Bb or C instruments).
Just referring to these two giants of music history and in particular
recognized as masters of orchestration as, not only knowing about the
C-F saxes but actually using them should be proof enough that these are,
or at least were, legitimate instruments.
In today's world, we have to apply the Hygrade rule, you know "more
people eat them..." Modern publishers would probably be very happy to
publish music for these instruments if there was a demand for them. But
there is not a demand for them, and one factor is because there is not
any music written for them.
Bernard Savoie
Opus 102 Music Publisher
PaulC135
<<The main problem with tuning these instruments in a modern context has
more to do with the modern tuning which has slowly crept up during the
last century to today's standard of A=440.>>
Yes, but the C melody instruments, like almost all of the saxophones built in
after World War I, are built to A=440 (low pitch) as are instruments made
today. Whether a player can adjust to today's upward-creeping pitch is not a
function of these instruments, but the player's ability.
If, after the 1920's sax craze, builders had kept making the C-melody
sax (C tenor), we might have a less awesome beast to master today.>>
The C Melody was still available as late as the late 1930s. (I have seen one
purchased in 1936) and were listed in the catalogues for quite some time. No
longer production instruments, they were still known and available.
<<If memory serves me right, Ravel's Bolero (1927) in it's original form was
orchestrated for F sopranino, soprano & tenor (I can't recall if these
were Bb or C instruments).
Just referring to these two giants of music history and in particular
recognized as masters of orchestration as, not only knowing about the
C-F saxes but actually using them should be proof enough that these are,
or at least were, legitimate instruments. >>
The Ravel is a special mystery. Bolero is scored for F sopranino, Bb soprano
and Bb tenor. There is no known documentation of the existence of an F
sopranino, and by 1927 there should have been some reference. The comparative
rarity of the sopranino in general makes some of us think that Ravel referred
to an orchestration book and did not have actual knowledge of the instrument.
Otherwise, why not a C soprano and tenor, or why not the Eb sopranino? In
either event, the sopranino solo is the only one that does not stay on the
instrument and requires another player and instrument for its completion. Very
odd. I always play the solo on Bb soprano, and use the sopranino later in the
work.
The same can be said of Schoenberg's use of the C bass saxophone in his opera
Von Haute auf Morgan (from about the same time period), which plays quite well
on a baritone saxophone, but for bass saxophone impractically calls for much
altissimo that doubles the bassoon and other lower woodwinds. None of his
scoring for the other instruements in that work make the same demands.
Paul Cohen
Jim Buchholz
When I read a Biography, I don't consider the writers opinion an
either/or or irrelevent,moot or silly. The writer is trying to place a
person in a rather fluid time and place even if the time is 60 years
ago.
Tram was interesting,a power in his time, same for Bix. But as Paul
said the fashions in music "had kind of left him behind". In all it's
not good or bad it just happens. It doesn't mean Tram was a
non-contributor.
Interestingly enough, about a year before Marshal Royal died, I saw him
in a workshop at the local college (with a number of others of course).
One college student who was hot stuff, played in a Charlie Parker
composition a transcription note-for-note what Charlie Played.
Unfortunately when he played his own stuff it was boring. After all
the musicians did their own thing showing their technique, and how they
could make the sax play octives higher, Marshall got up and played a
real fluid, logical, down to earth "it made sense" number of solos. The
crowd gave him a standing ovation, really enjoyed a real musician who
never outgrew his time period. Other soloists that day passed unnoticed.
Any book that can transport you back into the 1920s in a "you are
there" context, can as far as I am concerned my express any opinion
(which of course I can accept or reject or modify).
Jim Buchholz
.
Sax Therapy
:+paramount to realizing the original tuning. Another possibility of
:+having this reputation of being badly out of tune might be that only
:+dilettantes and poor players played them.
:+Parts, real, legitimate orchestrated or (bandstrated) parts were never
:+generated for the instrument. A player who had such an instrument in the
:+school band probably ended up playing a flute or an oboe part. Not a
:+good place for a saxophone to be sticking its nose into.
:+Paul Cohen
this is not true. I once had a collection of hundreds of band arrangements
from the teens and twenties. They once belonged to a bandleader who
used them in that period. many of the arrangements had c-melody parts and
many were written by popular arrangers of the period. Bob Harring is one
that comes to mind. You can also hear the distinctive sound of the
c-melody on many dance music records from the 20's.
--
______________________________________________________________________________
/~(_)~\ o/~~
II====== l =-} saul smaizys (whois SS666) saxm...@ripco.com o/
\_(~)_/ http://www.ripco.com:/~saxmania (~)o/
vox 773/907/8229 data:fax 773/907/8521 \8/
______________________________________________________________________________
JapayRyder
See dis' what I'm talkin' about ....Who's jivin' who ?
....
> PaulC135 wrote:
:+paramount to realizing the original tuning. Another possibility of
:+having this reputation of being badly out of tune might be that only
:+dilettantes and poor players played them.
:+Parts, real, legitimate orchestrated or (bandstrated) parts were never
:+generated for the instrument. A player who had such an instrument in the
:+school band probably ended up playing a flute or an oboe part. Not a
:+good place for a saxophone to be sticking its nose into.
:+Paul Cohen
this is not true. I once had a collection of hundreds of band arrangements
from the teens and twenties. They once belonged to a bandleader who
used them in that period. many of the arrangements had c-melody parts and
many were written by popular arrangers of the period. Bob Harring is one
that comes to mind. You can also hear the distinctive sound of the
c-melody on many dance music records from the 20's.
--
My thing here is again ,Why is Paul taking the vibe of his word is gospel ! My
man you have gotta remember your opinion is very kool but "it ain't
necessiarly so ".
Get off yo' soap box Paul and relax.Your fans may dig it but its gittin' a bit
much.You say some good words but dig yourself.
_____________________________________________________
Richard Bush
I should have been clearer, more articulate, when stating that few parts
were written for the instrument. I realize that the C melody enjoyed a
fairly prominent place in jazz and popular bands of the twenties and
thirties. My comments should have been clearer in stating that...few
parts were written for C melody saxophone in standard arrangements
publishing for concert, military or school bands.
Richard Bush
contributed a most accurate and informative overview of the C melody in
this tread. It was I who wrote those quotes which have, unfortunately,
been attributed to Mr. Cohen.
You know, my wife accuses me of walking into a room and talking without
being aware that others were already talking. Joining a conversation
late in the game can also be dangerous, not knowing what all has
preceeded in the conversation.
Nice talking to you dude.
PaulC135
<< See dis' what I'm talkin' about ....Who's jivin' who ?>>
<<In fairness to Paul C., I not he wrote the quoted comments.>>
Thank you for the clarification of the source of the quotes. I appreciate the
effort in setting the record straight and not perpetuating cloudy or
nonexistent issues. I try to do the same in my articles and newsgroup
postings, by relying on original source material and personal experience for
the information which I hope is communicated in some useful form. (Anecdotes,
stories and opinions, when used, are always indicated as such.)
I must not understand the term "jivin'" as has been recently used in this
newsgroup.
Paul Cohen
Sax Therapy
Sorry about the mis-attribution. I should have looked a little closer
when I was editing.
on Tue, 06 Oct 1998 11:44:08 -0600 the entity known as Richard Bush wrote:
:+In fairness to Paul C., I not he wrote the quoted comments.
:+I should have been clearer, more articulate, when stating that few parts
:+were written for the instrument. I realize that the C melody enjoyed a
:+fairly prominent place in jazz and popular bands of the twenties and
:+thirties. My comments should have been clearer in stating that...few
:+parts were written for C melody saxophone in standard arrangements
:+publishing for concert, military or school bands.