C.G. Conn clarinet
Riff 251
clarinet. It belonged to an uncle of mine, killed in WWII. It's been in my
aunt's attic all these years.
The only numbers on it are 24N (the model # ?)
and the serial #B150418L
Is this anything special, or is it just a WWII era student clarinet? (it is
made from wood)
Is there a market for vintage clarinets, like there is for vintage saxes?
Riff
Paul Lindemeyer
>
> I've come into possession, by way of inheritance, of an old C. G. Conn
> clarinet. It belonged to an uncle of mine, killed in WWII. It's been in my
> aunt's attic all these years.
>
> The only numbers on it are 24N (the model # ?)
Yup.
> and the serial #B150418L
> Is this anything special, or is it just a WWII era student clarinet? (it is
> made from wood)
This isn't a student instrument as such, but Conn clarinets are not in
much demand nowadays -- and that includes the 1930s/40s wooden pro
models which are actually damned good instruments. This horn, OTOH, is
from 1924.
Sure it's wood? Conn advertised in the 20s that wooden clarinets were
only available on special order. The standard models were all rubber.
However, I've seen wooden Conns that old myself, so there may have been
a lot of those "special" orders.
> Is there a market for vintage clarinets, like there is for vintage saxes?
It's about where it was for saxes 15 years ago, where only the Mark VI
was worth anything. For clarinets it's the old model Buffet R-13.
There's some demand among jazz players for the Selmer Balanced-Tones and
Centered-Tones, but the legit crowd considers them unusable due
to...well, AFAICT, due basically to the fact that they're not Buffet
R-13s. And there are still a lot of respected players and teachers who
believe that a wooden instrument so many years old is unplayable simply
by virtue of its age.
A market may or may not evolve along the lines of saxes. Two factors not
present in the clarinet world that helped create a vintage sax market
are:
(1) Jazz players. Yes there *are* jazz clarinetists, although they're
marginalized in the clarinet community (more so even than classical
players in the sax community, IMNSHO). NOTB their hardware requirements
aren't that different from legit players, although this B-T/C-T trend
may develop into something in time.
(2) A contrarian or old-guard classical school, along the lines of
Rascher, which holds older instruments as closer to the ideal. The
difficulty here being that no one person can be said to have invented
the clarinet.
I've taken the liberty of crossposting this to alt.music.clarinet, so
perhaps we'll hear from them too.
--
LINDEMEYER PRODUCTIONS INC.
Orchestras Ensembles Graphic Design
C.G. CONN Saxophones "Choice of the Artist"
Paul Lindemeyer <pau...@cyburban.com>
Dee D. Hays
Riff 251 <rif...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:19991118142830...@ng-fk1.aol.com...
> I've come into possession, by way of inheritance, of an old C. G. Conn
> clarinet. It belonged to an uncle of mine, killed in WWII. It's been in my
> aunt's attic all these years.
>
> The only numbers on it are 24N (the model # ?)
>
> Is this anything special, or is it just a WWII era student clarinet? (it
is
> made from wood)
>
Not really. Newer clarinets are on the average better than older clarinets.
There have been some real advances in the field of clarinet acoustics since
then. Some of the older clarinets are of course very good but not up to par
with those of more recent vintage.
Conn's clarinets were never quite up to the standard of their saxophones.
Conn did make a number of different models however their big market was the
school band trade. Most Conn clarinets were thus student models.
Dee Hays
Canton, SD
connosax
> I've taken the liberty of crossposting this to alt.music.clarinet, so
> perhaps we'll hear from them too.
>
>
There goes the neighborhood!
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Mitch
>
> > I've taken the liberty of crossposting this to alt.music.clarinet, so
> > perhaps we'll hear from them too.
> There goes the neighborhood!
BIG LOL!
Mitch
Riff 251
were only available on special order.>>
Thanks for your reply Paul.
I'm not sure now. The finish has lines in it from the metal ring around the end
of the bell, running up through all the sections, the full length of the
clarinet. At first I just took this to be the wood grain. But right under the
thumb rest there are no such lines. It looks like it may have been worn smooth
there from use.
Did Conn finish their clarinets like this to simulate wood grain?
Riff
Dennis C. O'Connor
great... I'm not sure age is a problem if the instrument was taken care
of...
Denny
Paul Lindemeyer wrote:
>
> Riff 251 wrote:
> >
> > I've come into possession, by way of inheritance, of an old C. G. Conn
> > clarinet. It belonged to an uncle of mine, killed in WWII. It's been in my
> > aunt's attic all these years.
> >
> > The only numbers on it are 24N (the model # ?)
>
> Yup.
>
> > and the serial #B150418L
>
> > Is this anything special, or is it just a WWII era student clarinet? (it is
> > made from wood)
>
> This isn't a student instrument as such, but Conn clarinets are not in
> much demand nowadays -- and that includes the 1930s/40s wooden pro
> models which are actually damned good instruments. This horn, OTOH, is
> from 1924.
>
> Sure it's wood? Conn advertised in the 20s that wooden clarinets were
> only available on special order. The standard models were all rubber.
> However, I've seen wooden Conns that old myself, so there may have been
> a lot of those "special" orders.
>
> > Is there a market for vintage clarinets, like there is for vintage saxes?
>
> It's about where it was for saxes 15 years ago, where only the Mark VI
> was worth anything. For clarinets it's the old model Buffet R-13.
> There's some demand among jazz players for the Selmer Balanced-Tones and
> Centered-Tones, but the legit crowd considers them unusable due
> to...well, AFAICT, due basically to the fact that they're not Buffet
> R-13s. And there are still a lot of respected players and teachers who
> believe that a wooden instrument so many years old is unplayable simply
> by virtue of its age.
>
> A market may or may not evolve along the lines of saxes. Two factors not
> present in the clarinet world that helped create a vintage sax market
> are:
>
> (1) Jazz players. Yes there *are* jazz clarinetists, although they're
> marginalized in the clarinet community (more so even than classical
> players in the sax community, IMNSHO). NOTB their hardware requirements
> aren't that different from legit players, although this B-T/C-T trend
> may develop into something in time.
>
> (2) A contrarian or old-guard classical school, along the lines of
> Rascher, which holds older instruments as closer to the ideal. The
> difficulty here being that no one person can be said to have invented
> the clarinet.
>
> I've taken the liberty of crossposting this to alt.music.clarinet, so
> perhaps we'll hear from them too.
>
Doug.
writes
>
>
>> I've taken the liberty of crossposting this to alt.music.clarinet, so
>> perhaps we'll hear from them too.
>>
>>
>
Letter from England.
Care to explain the phrase to a dumb Limey?, --Please?.
Thanks in antic'n.
--Doug.
Mitch
reminds us of a time when the wealthy, white middle class would colonize
the suburbs, set up dozens or hundreds of two-parent, affluent
households and found peace and security until the lesser elements of
society moved into the house "next door". The neighborhood then slowly
evolves to become like the one that was left behind. In decades past,
"there goes the neighborhood" meant it was time to move again, and
everyone knew why.
My kids don't hear this phrase, and won't.
Mitch
LeliaLoban
>
>It's about where it was for saxes 15 years ago, where only the Mark VI
>was worth anything. For clarinets it's the old model Buffet R-13.
>There's some demand among jazz players for the Selmer Balanced-Tones and
>Centered-Tones, but the legit crowd considers them unusable due
>to...well, AFAICT, due basically to the fact that they're not Buffet
>R-13s. And there are still a lot of respected players and teachers who
>believe that a wooden instrument so many years old is unplayable simply
>by virtue of its age.
>
Clarinet players go round and round about this subject. Some believe old
wooden clarinets "blow out," meaning that over time, the shape of the bore
changes, as the wood ages. AFAIK, nobody has actual scientific proof although
certainly an abused clarinet can develop warping cracking and other types of
distortion. Clarinets don't survive abuse as well as saxes and they're not as
easy to repair. Putting a wooden clarinet away wet and subjecting it to
temperature extremes, or displaying it for days on end exposed to the weather
at an outdoor flea market, will wreck it pretty quickly. The majority of old
wooden clarinets I see for sale are in such deteriorated condition that I don't
want to mess with them. But FWIW, my best Bb clarinet is a 1937 Buffet, the
precursor of the R-13. (This model was sold as the R-13 in the USA, but it
isn't the same as the R-13 Buffet introduced in 1955, with the polycylindrical
bore.) I happen to prefer the wider bore of the old models. I think I hear
more overtones (a "fatter" or "darker" sound) with the wide bore. It's
supposed to be harder to control the intonation on old clarinets, but I'm not
so sure I buy that theory. I think it's more a question of getting used to
where various manufacturers put the compromises. I've never tried a Conn as
old as 1924, but if I found one up for grabs at a decent price, I wouldn't turn
up my nose at it just because it's old.
OTOH, I'm an amateur, and might not like vintage clarinets nearly as much if I
had to try to get work with them. A lot of band and orchestra directors want
their clarinetists to sound alike, and to blend. They want the sound of modern
R-13s. A vintage clarinet probably won't blend too well in a section.
Lelia
Please delete NOSPAM from my address to reply by e-mail.
Doug.
<mi...@mitchellandrus.com> writes
>In the 90's, it ("there goes the neighborhood") is a cliche' that
>reminds us of a time when the wealthy, white middle class would colonize
>the suburbs, set up dozens or hundreds of two-parent, affluent
>households and found peace and security until the lesser elements of
>society moved into the house "next door". The neighborhood then slowly
>evolves to become like the one that was left behind. In decades past,
>"there goes the neighborhood" meant it was time to move again, and
>everyone knew why.
>
>My kids don't hear this phrase, and won't.
>
>Mitch
>
>"Doug." wrote:
>> >There goes the neighborhood!
>>
>> Letter from England.
>> Care to explain the phrase to a dumb Limey?, --Please?.
>> Thanks in antic'n.
>> --Doug.
Thanks, - Mitch!, for the explanation.
Being a crushing bore Limey, I always find an anecdote to suit the
occasion. With which I will bore you and everybody else, - and what's
worse, - it's right off topic!. Further, it is true.
After the war, there were no houses to let. No-one had the down payment
for a mortgage and there were no houses for sale anyway.
After six years away, three in India , I was ex-pat and demob.
Nowhere to live. Had to live at my new wife's parents house. They had
seven children three just married. There were sixteen in the house.
I had to sleep in a double bed with four young brothers.
Got fed up, went squatting (With hundreds of others) in the wooden
abandoned RAF dispersal huts. Wife expecting, had to go back because
the walls were running with rain. Sister got a prefab and had a spare
room. We got thrown out of that by the Council and had top go back.
After two years got the keys of Council house in the worst slum area.
It was crawling with bugs. I stripped all the wood fascias out and took
a match-box full of bedbugs (dead) to the Housing Manager at the Town
hall who got stroppy so I chucked then all over him. The Police chucked
me out.
Right! - that's the background.
We finally got shifted into a new one, followed by three others (Due to
promotion to other Towns.)
Back here we finally raised the cash and came into a nice semi-detached,
on a hill overlooking the Town , - where I still live.
Here, because we had come from a Council House, we were shunned and the
neighbours used to cause a fuss if we put washing out on a Sunday.
Who were these superior people?. From nearest next door, to further
away,- Welder, Clerk, Bin-man, Lorry-driver, School marm, Labourer,
Process-worker,TV Mechanic, etc, etc.
I was a Communications Special-Faults Consultant with the national
telephone Company.
So thanks for your explanation.
Without knowing, - I have lived it!!.
--Doug.
Mitch
Mitch
Mister Lucky
"Doug." <D...@yarlside.demon.co.uk> wrote:
["mister robinson's neighborhood" snipped]
> Here, because we had come from a Council House, we were shunned and the
> neighbours used to cause a fuss if we put washing out on a Sunday.
oh, doug. i've never lived in a council house (though my wife has, being
half english and spending considerable time living in london). we now live
in santa cruz, california, and happen to be renters in a relatively nice area
of town. my wife is also half italian, and loves our laundry to air-dry, if
possible. and the neighbors HATE it. and give us "looks". and we've been
hew more than two years and have never mugged the priest in the church
nearby...
what is with people? i guess they only want to see our *dirty* laundry...
so, i get 'em back by playing my alto top volume during practice. especially
when i get up to the palm key notes in F *g*.
cheers!
bill
Doug.
deja.com> writes
The householders here have, through the years have change dramatically
due to modern thinking but mostly because of removals and fresh
incomers.
Talking about playing loud!.
At the wife's Mpther's house aforementioned, (The one with sixteen
occupants, - including yours truly, -
Oh that reminds me! that house and the whole area around it for a
quarter-mile radius was demolished in 1944 by a Jerry parachute land-
mine. No-one killed in the house, they were all in underground shelters.
Anyway . back to the anec-bloomin'-dote, -At Ma's house I was still
learning the alto and playing Sat. nights at one of the local flea-pit
halls called The Rink (There was roller skating during the day.).
Way back, the Rink used to be a massive railway engine shed and still
had high girder roofing just like Waterloo Station.
In a 16 piece dance-band, I had to blow my guts out, and unfortunately,
because I didn't know any better I used to practise very loud upstairs
at Ma's house.
The woman next door called Winnie used to bang hell out of the wall so I
used to play a few bars of the sax laughing song.
Winnie used to go ape and could be heard next door, banging and swearing
like a trouper.
She had the best of it in the end, though!. Nobody told me at the time
that she played the joahnna in a pub.
The whole household would be fast asleep. the whole street snoring.
Unknown to me, Winnie had shifted her piano to up against the dividing
wall and she would start playing, banging the ivories like a madwoman!
full fortissimo, !!,
At four o-clock in the morning!.
--Doug.
