Thin, sharp high notes

[bethell bruce c]

Okay, I'm really getting frustrated. I play a Yamaha custom alto (YAS
875), with a Dukoff D7 mpc. I love the horn, at least in the lower amd
middle range (the altissimo is pretty cool, too). But my higher notes
(from around g to f above the staff) are just crappy: shrill, thin, and
sharp. I've been working overtones to improve support and intonation, but
it doesn't seem to be helping that much in the upper range. I'm also
considering moving from 3 to 3-1/2 reeds (Rico Royals). Any suggestions
(e.g., exercises, mpcs)?

Hollywood

[Merlin Williams]

If you don't like thin, shrill high notes, why did you buy a Dukoff?
Get something with a nice round chamber, like a Vandoren V16. Plays a
lot like the old style NY Meyers that so many people are after.

Visit my site "Merlin's Mouthpiece"
http://www.netcom.ca/~merlinw
A member of the Sax Ring and the
Duke Ellington Ring.

[Robert Cheal]

Get rid of the Dukoff. I have a Dukoff that sounded fairly good on an old
Selmer Signet. Now I have a Yamaha custom alto and the Dukoff is all but
unplayable. Shrill nasty sound (think fingernails on chalkboard). I think
the Yamaha is a fairly bright sounding horn, so you probably need to
compensate with a less severe mouthpiece.

After reading a few recommendation in this ng (thanks) I tried a Morgan 7M
hard rubber. I think it works quite well with the Yamaha. There are
probably lots of other mouthpieces that work well with the Yamaha. Try a few
out.

Bob

[Pendleton]

I agree with this most: you are most likely biting in the upper register. Try to
make your mouth more of an "O". Bring the corners of your mouth forward. Also,
assume a high throat position...like you're saying "EEEE" or singing a high note.
With the exception of overtones and altissimo, never change your throat position.
If none of this works, get yourself a different mouthpiece. I agree that the
Dukoff is biting up there, but you can try to compensate for it.

Andreas Parnow wrote:

> Im Artikel <Pine.GSO.4.10.991118...@staff2.cso.uiuc.edu>,
> bethell bruce c <bbet...@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu> schreibt:

>
> >Okay, I'm really getting frustrated. I play a Yamaha custom alto (YAS
> >875), with a Dukoff D7 mpc. I love the horn, at least in the lower amd
> >middle range (the altissimo is pretty cool, too). But my higher notes
> >(from around g to f above the staff) are just crappy: shrill, thin, and
> >sharp. I've been working overtones to improve support and intonation, but
> >it doesn't seem to be helping that much in the upper range. I'm also
> >considering moving from 3 to 3-1/2 reeds (Rico Royals). Any suggestions
> >(e.g., exercises, mpcs)?
> >
> >Hollywood
>

> My experiences with reeds are the harder the reeds, the higher the upper
> register and vice versa. Maybe with Rico Royal 2 1/2 or La Voz Ms/M it will
> stay in tune?
> A Dukoff D mouthpiece is well known for its bright sound.
> Are you biting? Try loosening your embouchure especially for upper register.
> Also if you are playing too much at the tip of the mouthpiece, the upper
> register will raise sharp. A friend of mine had the same problem with Yamaha 62
> Tenor, left hand upper register too sharp but not so much that he couldn't work
> on it with his embouchure.
> Hope this helps
> Andy

[Andreas Parnow]

[Chris Simpson]

Get a new mouthpiece, and some reeds. I would suggest getting a vandoren
standard, or V16... but if you want to be thin all over get a java reed. lol
Chris Simpson
Baritone Saxophone
Texas All-State Band '99
Coppell High School

[Joe Ramirez]

bethell bruce c <bbet...@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu> wrote:

>
>Okay, I'm really getting frustrated. I play a Yamaha custom alto (YAS
>875), with a Dukoff D7 mpc. I love the horn, at least in the lower amd
>middle range (the altissimo is pretty cool, too). But my higher notes
>(from around g to f above the staff) are just crappy: shrill, thin, and
>sharp. I've been working overtones to improve support and intonation, but
>it doesn't seem to be helping that much in the upper range. I'm also
>considering moving from 3 to 3-1/2 reeds (Rico Royals). Any suggestions
>(e.g., exercises, mpcs)?

I tried a Yamaha Custom alto 18 months ago and didn't buy it because I
thought it had a weak upper register. Some other people (experienced
players) have made the same comment in this newsgroup or in e-mail.
E.g., go to the Web site of classical saxophonist Kenneth Tse, a
Yamaha clinician, and you will find in the "guestbook" page a letter
from a sax teacher complaining about the Custom's thin upper register
and asking what the cause is. Of course, others here insist that
there is no problem, based on their experience. To aid in your
diagnosis, try using the same mp and reeds on a different pro alto,
and see what the effect is.

Joe Ramirez

[bethell bruce c]

Thanks for all the suggestions; I guess it's time to spend some time in
Chicago or South Bend, playing mpcs. For those who wondered about it, I'm
playing a Dukoff because all my gigs are with amplified bands (R&B, funk,
reggae, etc.), so I need good projection. Still, there isn't much point in
projecting a crappy sound . . .

On the subject of mpcs, any suggestions for larger chambers (other than a
Guardala fat boy, which just seems too pricey)?

As for potential problems with the Yamaha custom, yes it IS a bright
horn--again, a not altogether undesirable quality when competing with
electric guitars. But I've heard people make them sound okay, so the
problem must not be insurmountable. And I sure do love the action on it.

My thanks to all.

Hollywood

[don and amy]

Sharpness is not the mp or horn, that is you. The thin sound could be a
combination of mp and horn.

I tried a coupld of Yamaha's when I owned a Selmer Mk VI, and I liked the
engineering, intonation and feel--but the high register--no.

I now have my King Silversonic which has the wonderful combination of being
very bright, yet very delicate and sweet up top--all the while very
powerful.

But Yamaha's are good horns, you can make that sound good. The mp, horn
setup might not be a good match, however. I play a Vandoren A45, as I play
a lot of popular music, and I get ALL the edge I need, but it's under
control, and not shrill. Try the V16--Vandorens are go mp's--but not
everybody has to emulate Phil Woods, which is the sound most people around
here like--a pure, bell-like horn sound; I go for a bit more edge, and it
sounds like you might be also.

One thing is for sure, Yamaha's are engineered very well; if you are playing
out of tune, that indicates that your real problem is that you are not
nearly relaxed enough when you play high--the throat gets smaller and the
air stream faster, but the fullness up high comes from letting the reed
vibrate as much as possible.

Hate to say it, but for me it took a couple years of serious practicing
before I had the mouth strength to play high and full on alto (tenor is not
as hard). For me, playing high for your mouth is kinda like what it would
be for your arms to carry a very heavy bowl of water which is filled to the
top and which you cannot spill. Have to hold it up, yet be very delicate and
steady.

Good luck.