Lateralus, Rush influence, and why I expect to be flamed.
Ellen
indy shops). Anyway, I hope that Rush gets a chance to listen to this album
before they are done in the studio because I'd like for them to get some ideas.
I know that Geddy is a Tool fan, so I think that there is a good chance of
this. Lateralus has a lot of Rush influence throughout, but it is definitely a
unique progression in its own right. I think that it would be way cool if Rush
were inspired by this album, in turn.
On a side note (and I'm sure that I'll get flamed for this), Carey blows Peart
away on this album. Neil had better come up with something really good in order
to hang onto his position as my favorite rock drummer of all time. After
listening to Lateralus for the first time in its entirety, the conversation in
my household went like this:
Me: Whoa.
My husband: Wow. That is some of the best music I have heard in years. I feel
as though I am reliving the days of hearing new Rush during the 80s.
Me: Carey is amazing...he is the new Neil Peart!
My husband (a tried and true Rush fan since 2112 came out): Ummm Carey goes way
beyond Peart. He does not show off as much, but is much more creative than
Peart has ever been.
Me: It's as if Peart morphed with Bill Bruford...
My husband: Yeah...Danny is something of a supernatural drummer....
etc.
Ellen
"And the day will come, when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the Supreme
Being as His Father, in the womb of a virgin, will be classed with the fable of
the generation of Minerva, in the brain of Jupiter." -Thomas Jefferson
Drewe Manton
emari...@aol.comatose wrote on 14/5/01 11:39 pm:
Jesus. . alright Ellen. . you win! I'll order the damn album when I get
payed okay?<G>
After all. . you are responsible for my purchase of Mer De Noms. . .
--
regards
Drewe
"Better the pride that resides
In a citizen of the world
Than the pride that divides
When a colourful rag is unfurled"
Drewe's Modelling Page:- www.manton300.freeserve.co.uk/index.html
Mike Smith
news:20010514183936...@ng-fl1.aol.com...
>
> On a side note (and I'm sure that I'll get flamed for this), Carey blows
Peart
> away on this album. Neil had better come up with something really good in
order
> to hang onto his position as my favorite rock drummer of all time. After
> listening to Lateralus for the first time in its entirety, the
conversation in
Well, I suppose I should reserve my flamage until my copy of _Lateralus_
arrives. But it's not going to be easy.
--
Mike Smith
One man's theology is another man's belly laugh. --R. A. Heinlein
Ellen
>
> Jesus. . alright Ellen. . you win! I'll order the damn album when I get
>payed okay?<G>
> After all. . you are responsible for my purchase of Mer De Noms. . .
Tool is to Mer as Rush is to MFH. I mean I love APC, but they don't touch Tool.
Just you wait.
7 string bass
news:20010514183936...@ng-fl1.aol.com...
>
Peart
> away on this album.
wow, when were they having the drum olympics? i missed it.
and here i thought that music was a non-competitive, purely
creative endeavor. i better practice my triple tap bogie flips
if i plan on beating bill dickens at the namm show this july in
the Extended Range Bass competition, >6 string class.
;-)
--
__________________
john turner
http://lordonly.net
original music
"whoever wants music instead of noise,
joy instead of pleasure, soul instead of
gold, creative work instead of business,
passion instead of foolery finds no
home in this trivial world of ours"
- hermann hesse
Jim Geiger
>if i plan on beating bill dickens at the namm show this july in
>the Extended Range Bass
Bill Dickens...what a monster.
I think you can take him, though, John.
.................................................................
Jim Geiger - Jim Geiger
She Loves A Pearl
the band, but that drummer is great. As a matter of fact, I think
Maynard is the weakest link in the band. I heard a cut on the radio
for Lateralus, schism I think was the name, and I couldn't figure out
what time signature it was in, but it didn't sound like 4/4.
Ellen
>wow, when were they having the drum olympics? i missed it.
Were you absent on the day they went over "figure of speech"?
>and here i thought that music was a non-competitive, purely
>creative endeavor.
If this was entirely true, then we would all agree that Peart and Criss were in
the same league.
7 string bass
who am i kiddin'? he'll eat me alive ;_;
--
__________________
john turner
http://lordonly.net
original music
"whoever wants music instead of noise,
joy instead of pleasure, soul instead of
gold, creative work instead of business,
passion instead of foolery finds no
home in this trivial world of ours"
- hermann hesse
"Jim Geiger " <bigdadd...@aol.comx> wrote in message
news:20010514210611...@ng-fv1.aol.com...
7 string bass
"Ellen" <emari...@aol.comatose> wrote in message
> >From: "7 string bass" 7str...@Xbellsouth.netX
>
> >wow, when were they having the drum olympics? i missed it.
>
> Were you absent on the day they went over "figure of speech"?
were you absent the day they went over "emoticons" as in
";-)"
>
> >and here i thought that music was a non-competitive, purely
> >creative endeavor.
>
> If this was entirely true, then we would all agree that Peart and Criss
were in
> the same league.
that depends, is criss creative?
NOTE THE FOLLOWING DENOTES HUMOR AND/OR PLAYFUL SARCASM
-->
;-)
<--
END HUMOR AND/OR PLAYFUL SARCASM
Ellen
>that depends, is criss creative?
with his make-up, yes.
>were you absent the day they went over "emoticons" as in
>";-)"
I skipped class that day.
7 string bass
as if there was ever any doubt.
--
__________________
john turner - OGT since '93
Dormin Gib
> On a side note (and I'm sure that I'll get flamed for this), Carey blows
> Peart away on this album.
>
>
> Me: Carey is amazing...he is the new Neil Peart!
>
> My husband (a tried and true Rush fan since 2112 came out): Ummm Carey
> goes way beyond Peart. He does not show off as much, but is much more
> creative than Peart has ever been.
Well, I wouldn't flame you, but I'd respectfully disagree. :) Sounds like
maybe you two are just really excited about the new album.
I got Lateralus about a week ago via covert means >-D and while I've always
been a big Tool fan, I don't think their music is diverse enough to fairly
compare the two drummers. As much as I dig Tool, they're pretty one
dimensional musically. The drummer has a great, loose style which is
something that always makes or breaks a band for me. But again, their music
doesn't really cover enough ground to show how diverse or creative he may or
may not be.
On the other hand, Rush has so much material over so many years, and they
always evolved, at least somewhat, from album to album.
I've always used "La Villa Strangiato" as a good example of Peart's
diversity. Actually, the whole Hemispheres album is a good demonstration in
creativity, and dynamics, odd meters, etc, for all the three of them.
And then I'm thinking maybe the song "Eulogy" is probably the best example
of the raw musicianship of Tool. And while I love it muchly, it's just not
on the same level as Rush. But that's not to say that Tool's drummer
doesn't necessarily have the same ability, just that Tool hasn't produced
the kind of music that could really show it. I definitely wouldn't
consider Tool "prog". They're just assbusting hard rock with good, tight
musicians.
-dg
Edgecenter
vocal melodies as well as he does, & have the best overall voice in
rock(arguably)...& then be the weak link in a band...is he, musically, the
"weak link" on this record?...from the two songs ive heard, maybe...but he's
the only one in two bands, & the music was already raging by the time he got
there...
& it's interesting...ged is on record as being the perfect circle fan...with
alex being the tool fan...which if u think about it(& youre familiar with apc &
tool)...makes perfect sense in the dynamics of the band :o)
now, as for danny being better than neil...well, for one, when danny has to
still be creative, after his band has morphed & evolved into a songwriter-y
ensemble...16 albums on...then, we can compare...
plus, neil never had electronic percussion on his 3rd album either...
& it could definately be argued that neil, by "showing off", paved the way for
danny to "be creative"...at that point in music history(the 70's), either u
were a behemoth, or u were a folk singer in a club...rush are absolute
precursors to tool...
so, even though neil is actually only 9 years older than dan(something like
that)...one could say, without neil plowing ahead, pushing the boundaries of
music(esp. making it acceptable in the music business)...maybe danny carey isnt
playing as well, or with as much freedom...or even playing at all...
Blakwydoh
"Ellen" <emari...@aol.comatose> wrote in message
news:20010514183936...@ng-fl1.aol.com...
MHO is it is one KICK ASS CD.
I have always like Tool though.
And yes Ellen, I agree, I hear the heavy Rush influence too.
Am I alone here in thinking this.....but does it also have a Soundgardenish
sound in some of the songs too?
Ellen
>MHO is it is one KICK ASS CD.
>I have always like Tool though.
>And yes Ellen, I agree, I hear the heavy Rush influence too.
>Am I alone here in thinking this.....but does it also have a Soundgardenish
>sound in some of the songs too?
From what I have heard from the radio, I would say "no," but I have never
listen to SG beside what's been on the radio.
Fumika N
>Tool's Lateralus - I got it a day early (along with a free poster -- gotta
love
>indy shops). Anyway, I hope that Rush gets a chance to listen to this album
>before they are done in the studio because I'd like for them to get some
ideas.
Rush have enough ideas of their own, thank you! Personally, I'd cringe if
Geddy were to start donning blonde wigs, appearing in his undies, feigning
masturbation on stage, and screeching about sodomy!
"There are no rules for dealing with the memories of dead rock'n'roll
stars."
-- Samuel Havadtoy
Ellen
>
>Rush have enough ideas of their own, thank you! Personally, I'd cringe if
>Geddy were to start donning blonde wigs, appearing in his undies, feigning
>masturbation on stage, and screeching about sodomy!
If that's all you "get" from Tool, then that's too bad. Maybe you should join
forces with those who claim that Rush is satanic?
jago...@dcc.uchile.cl.com
:>From: Fumika N Fum...@MailAndNews.com
:>
:>Rush have enough ideas of their own, thank you! Personally, I'd cringe if
:>Geddy were to start donning blonde wigs, appearing in his undies, feigning
:>masturbation on stage, and screeching about sodomy!
: If that's all you "get" from Tool, then that's too bad. Maybe you should join
: forces with those who claim that Rush is satanic?
Are those things not true, then? Although I'm going bugfuck waiting for my
goddamned cable modem so I can test-download lateralus! :)
Rush, on the other hand, never were openly satanic. Maybe those reversed
Alex satanic lasagna messages...
--
Javier Gonzalez Nicolini - remove the .com to e-mail
"All your base are belong to us."
http://www.dcc.uchile.cl/~jagonzal/AYB2.swf
Fumika N
>
>>
>>Rush have enough ideas of their own, thank you! Personally, I'd cringe if
>>Geddy were to start donning blonde wigs, appearing in his undies, feigning
>>masturbation on stage, and screeching about sodomy!
>
>If that's all you "get" from Tool, then that's too bad. Maybe you should join
>forces with those who claim that Rush is satanic?
Why in the hell would I do that? There's no basis for supposing
they're
satanic. Neil's expressly said, "I don't even *believe* in the old bastard"
in reference to Satan.
Ellen
>>If that's all you "get" from Tool, then that's too bad. Maybe you should
>join
>>forces with those who claim that Rush is satanic?
>
> Why in the hell would I do that?
Because that's what misinformed people do. Don't ask me to rationalize the
irrational.
>There's no basis for supposing
>they're
>satanic.
As is there is no basis for you to be claiming that Tool does the same things
as A Perfect Circle (they are two completely different bands, you know).
Ellen
>Are those things not true, then?
They are, indeed, all false. Maynard did wear a blonde wig, was in his
underwear on stage, and did pretend to masturbate on stage, but that was with
an entirely different band (as in, NOT Tool). Besides, even if he did these
things in the context of Tool, it would not take away from the fact that the
music is awe inspiring, beautiful, and kicks ass.
One of my pet peeves is when people judge something on outer appearances. A
person will never experience inner growth so long as he/she is not willing to
look deeper.
" i embrace my desire to embrace my desire
to feel the rhythm
to feel connected
enough to step aside and weep like a widow
to feel inspired
to fathom the power
to witness the beauty
to bathe in the fountain
to swing on the spiral
to swing on the spiral
to swing on the spiral of our divinity and still be a human"
- Maynard James Keenan (Tool)
Fumika N
>In alt.music.rush Ellen <emari...@aol.comatose> rambled thus:
>
>:>
>:>Rush have enough ideas of their own, thank you! Personally, I'd cringe if
>:>Geddy were to start donning blonde wigs, appearing in his undies, feigning
>:>masturbation on stage, and screeching about sodomy!
>
>: forces with those who claim that Rush is satanic?
>
No, Tool's lead singer does all those things (blonde wig, undies, feigned
masturbation, and songs about sodomy). Anything for attention!
Tool's guitarist said that he wanted Tool's tours to be like the ones "Pink
Floyd" put on in the late-80s. Musician magazine reviewed the CD culled
from
that tour as "Proof that you can't listen to a light show." Why would
anyone
want to emulate *that*?
And as for the bassist...well, he's something of a shrinking violent. He
doesn't really stand out.
Fumika N
>>they're
>>satanic.
>
>As is there is no basis for you to be claiming that Tool does the same things
>as A Perfect Circle (they are two completely different bands, you know).
They're not completely different; they have the same frontperson, who
indulges
in the same attention-seeking antics.
Geddy Lee has no interest in such antics. He's there to sing and play the
bass.
He is a musician.
User549318
the songs about sodomy...are not about sodomy :o)
musician magazine hates rush...why would u refer to them...?
User549318
basically, people who are "scared" of rush, or maybe intimidated or perplexed,
reached for the star emblem, & paraded it around as satanic, therefore
assuaging their own pitiful attempts at understanding...
tool are one of the cooler bands on the planet right now, & one of the better
bands of all time, IMO...any band that has intelligent lyrics dealing with
right subjects...a drummer the monster of carey(love the added beauty of
electronic percussion too)...a bassist as creative as justin(& paul before
him)...a sweet little guitarist/artist(videos, album covers)such as adam
jones(good melodies, good aggression, nice textures)...& the best voice in
rockinroll, maynard james keenan(brilliant w/the vocal melodies,
btw)...um...was this discussion about someone dismissing tool out of hand? :o)
7 string bass
> >From: jago...@dcc.uchile.cl.com
>
> >Are those things not true, then?
>
> They are, indeed, all false. Maynard did wear a blonde wig, was in his
> underwear on stage, and did pretend to masturbate on stage, but that was
with
> an entirely different band (as in, NOT Tool).
they are, indeed, all true. maynard has done practically the same routine
with tool each of the times that i've seen them.
> Besides, even if he did these
> things in the context of Tool, it would not take away from the fact that
the
> music is awe inspiring, beautiful, and kicks ass.
is that the supreme, objective "kick ass" or is that just your opinion, that
might not be shared by others?
>
> One of my pet peeves is when people judge something on outer appearances.
A
> person will never experience inner growth so long as he/she is not willing
to
> look deeper.
one of my pet peeves is when someone can't handle the fact
that people don't share their very same opinions and worship
their very same gods.
--
__________________
john turner
7 string bass
come on stage with make up and a bra while performing
with tool?
and which shows have you seen?
--
__________________
john turner
http://lordonly.net
original music
"whoever wants music instead of noise,
joy instead of pleasure, soul instead of
gold, creative work instead of business,
passion instead of foolery finds no
home in this trivial world of ours"
- hermann hesse
"Ellen" <emari...@aol.comatose> wrote in message
news:20010516181507...@ng-mj1.aol.com...
7 string bass
"Fumika N" <Fum...@MailAndNews.com> wrote in message
news:3B03...@MailAndNews.com...
> >===== Original Message From jago...@dcc.uchile.cl.com =====
> >In alt.music.rush Ellen <emari...@aol.comatose> rambled thus:
> >:>From: Fumika N Fum...@MailAndNews.com
> >
> >:>
> >:>Rush have enough ideas of their own, thank you! Personally, I'd cringe
if
> >:>Geddy were to start donning blonde wigs, appearing in his undies,
feigning
> >:>masturbation on stage, and screeching about sodomy!
> >
> >: If that's all you "get" from Tool, then that's too bad. Maybe you
should
> join
> >: forces with those who claim that Rush is satanic?
> >
> >Are those things not true, then?
>
> No, Tool's lead singer does all those things (blonde wig, undies, feigned
> masturbation, and songs about sodomy). Anything for attention!
>
> Tool's guitarist said that he wanted Tool's tours to be like the ones
"Pink
> Floyd" put on in the late-80s. Musician magazine reviewed the CD culled
> from
> that tour as "Proof that you can't listen to a light show." Why would
> anyone
> want to emulate *that*?
who gives a shit what musician magazine thinks? i have an article
from there where they said oasis was going to continue to make
excellent records into the next century (meaning now). they're a bunch
of idiots
>
> And as for the bassist...well, he's something of a shrinking violent. He
> doesn't really stand out.
damn, i hardly ever agree with ellen, but you're a damn idiot.
Fumika N
>but maynard only did those things with a perfect circle :o)
You seem as if you want to dissociate yourself from Maynard's antics. Do
you
find him embarrassing, perhaps? :O)
>...& technically,
>the songs about sodomy...are not about sodomy :o)
I didn't say there was anything wrong with Maynard's songs o'sodomy! He's
free to sing of whatever his perverse heart desires. :O)
I'm just glad that the guys in Rush write & sing about other concerns.
>musician magazine hates rush...why would u refer to them...?
There were lots of people working for Musician, and I don't think there was
a
consensus among them on Rush. Some Rush albums, like *Power Windows*, were
favorably reviewed. They did a lenghty (and fair-minded) article on Rush
when
*Presto* came out. And in the mid-90s, they did a piece on Alex's home
studio.
Anyway, I quoted them because the particualar quote (One of the recent "Pink
Floyd" albums was "Proof that you can't listen to a light show") was good.
Those ersatz Pink Floyd shows (and albums) were BAD. No real musician would
want to emulate them.
Blakwydoh
"Ellen" <emari...@aol.comatose> wrote in message
> From what I have heard from the radio, I would say "no," but I have never
> listen to SG beside what's been on the radio.
>
The end of the song Parabola sounds very Soundgardenis.
There is more but I will have to listen again to pick them out LOL.
Fumika N
As opposed to blindly worshipping them?
Ellen
>No, Tool's lead singer does all those things (blonde wig, undies, feigned
>masturbation, and songs about sodomy). Anything for attention!
By your logic, Freddie Mercury is nothing but an attention whore while the boys
in N'SYNC are "musicians."
BTW, the songs are not about sodomy. You are clueless.
Fumika N
>"Ellen" <emari...@aol.comatose> wrote in message
>> >From: jago...@dcc.uchile.cl.com
>>
>> >Are those things not true, then?
>>
>> underwear on stage, and did pretend to masturbate on stage, but that was
>with
>> an entirely different band (as in, NOT Tool).
>
>they are, indeed, all true. maynard has done practically the same routine
>with tool each of the times that i've seen them.
>
>> Besides, even if he did these
>> things in the context of Tool, it would not take away from the fact that
>the
>> music is awe inspiring, beautiful, and kicks ass.
>
>is that the supreme, objective "kick ass" or is that just your opinion, that
>might not be shared by others?
>
>>
>> One of my pet peeves is when people judge something on outer appearances.
>A
>> person will never experience inner growth so long as he/she is not willing
>to
>> look deeper.
>
>one of my pet peeves is when someone can't handle the fact
>that people don't share their very same opinions and worship
>their very same gods.
Exactly! Thanks for adding some sense to this discussion!
Ellen
>indulges
>in the same attention-seeking antics.
>
>Geddy Lee has no interest in such antics. He's there to sing and play the
>bass.
>He is a musician.
Theatrics take away from musicianship? Tell that to Elton John, Freddie
Mercury, Ozzy Ozborne, David Bowie, etc.
Ellen
>oh, so you're trying to say that maynard has never
>come on stage with make up and a bra while performing
>with tool?
Show me where I said that and I'll give you a cookie.
I was answering the question about the blonde wig, underwear and pretend
masturbation :)
>and which shows have you seen?
Ozzfest '98 (Maynard was blue and bald) and Sacramento '98 (Maynard wore a
dress and then stripped down to his speedos and bra).
Ellen
>they are, indeed, all true. maynard has done practically the same routine
>with tool each of the times that i've seen them.
No he has not. Maynard has made a huge effort to keep APC and Tool separate.
Yes, Maynard has done some crazy things with Tool, but the exact instances that
whatshisface posted here were APC, not Tool.
Besides, what does Maynard's appearance have to do with the music anyway?
Fumika N
>>
>> Tool's guitarist said that he wanted Tool's tours to be like the ones
>"Pink
>> Floyd" put on in the late-80s. Musician magazine reviewed the CD culled
>> from
>> that tour as "Proof that you can't listen to a light show." Why would
>> anyone
>> want to emulate *that*?
>
>who gives a shit what musician magazine thinks? i have an article
>from there where they said oasis was going to continue to make
>excellent records into the next century (meaning now). they're a bunch
>of idiots
I don't remember that comment on Oasis. If someone from Musician said that,
I
strongly disagree with it. Oasis were the one of the worst bands ever!
But some good articles & reviews did appear in Musician. And that comment
on
"Pink Floyd's" live album -- do you really disagree with it?
>> And as for the bassist...well, he's something of a shrinking violent. He
>> doesn't really stand out.
>
>damn, i hardly ever agree with ellen, but you're a damn idiot.
Now now, John. You might like Tool's bass player (though I can't imagine
why), but I wouldn't call you an "idiot" for that. I think that Geddy Lee
would have him for lunch, is all.
Ellen
>one of my pet peeves is when someone can't handle the fact
>that people don't share their very same opinions and worship
>their very same gods.
Yeah...I don't like those folks either.
Ellen
>From: Fumika N Fum...@MailAndNews.com
>You seem as if you want to dissociate yourself from Maynard's antics. Do
>you
>find him embarrassing, perhaps? :O)
I want to bend Maynard over and stick a hot pink dildo up his ass while he
wears a tank top and a mini skirt and sings, "lordy lordy my bottom's on fire."
>I didn't say there was anything wrong with Maynard's songs o'sodomy! He's
>free to sing of whatever his perverse heart desires. :O)
Maynard's songs are as much about sodomy as my statement above reflects my true
intentions beyond displaying my level of embarrassment. Why don't you take a
class on symbolism and metaphor and then reevaluate Tool's music with a deeper
understanding. Or...
Don't. But then try not to point a misinformed finger toward things that you do
not understand.
>I'm just glad that the guys in Rush write & sing about other concerns.
Yeah...pot and Satan! LOL
Fumika N
>
>>No, Tool's lead singer does all those things (blonde wig, undies, feigned
>>masturbation, and songs about sodomy). Anything for attention!
>
>By your logic, Freddie Mercury is nothing but an attention whore while the
boys
>in N'SYNC are "musicians."
Freddie M. did like to dress up, etc. But there's a difference. He could
actually sing. And he didn't needed to hide his voice behind an arsenal of
effects processors!
>BTW, the songs are not about sodomy. You are clueless.
Some of the songs are. Keenan's admitted it.
Again, I'm not saying there's anything wrong with singing about that. He
can
sing about whatever he likes.
I just think it would be a shame if the guys in Rush started to do that
stuff.
Which, fortunately, isn't likely.
Fumika N
>>indulges
>>in the same attention-seeking antics.
>>
>>Geddy Lee has no interest in such antics. He's there to sing and play the
>>bass.
>>He is a musician.
>
>Theatrics take away from musicianship? Tell that to Elton John, Freddie
>Mercury, Ozzy Ozborne, David Bowie, etc.
They sometimes serve as a *substitute* for musicianship.
Fumika
Fumika N
>(Maynard wore a
>dress and then stripped down to his speedos and bra).
Does he have breast implants?
Fumika N
>But then try not to point a misinformed finger toward things that you do
>not understand.
I'm not pointing fingers. I acknowledge that the guys in Tool are free to
do
those things.
But I don't think there's anything deep and profound about, say, dressing up
outrageously. It's done to garner attention.
>>I'm just glad that the guys in Rush write & sing about other concerns.
>
>Yeah...pot and Satan! LOL
LOL!
Ellen
>Freddie M. did like to dress up, etc. But there's a difference. He could
>actually sing. And he didn't needed to hide his voice behind an arsenal of
>effects processors!
>
Obviously, you've never really heard Tool, you own no albums (and if you do
then they are still shrink wrapped), and have never seen them live. This
explains a lot. MJK has a brilliant and versatile voice and there is no arguing
otherwise. You can not *like* his voice, but you can't say that he can't sing.
>>BTW, the songs are not about sodomy. You are clueless.
>Some of the songs are. Keenan's admitted it.
ROFLMAO. I suppose that you believe that when Tool declared that they were into
a religion called "Lachrymology" that it was a real religion? Or maybe you
believed the fake names they gave for the new album before we knew it would be
"Lateralus"? How about when the band released pictures of Danny being
arrested...did you believe that too? <sigh>
Here is the secret of Tool - beside their desire to spread the message that
folks should think for themselves (i.e. not rely on superficial appearances in
order to make a judgment), they have a sense of humor. They like to keep their
fans on their toes and play little jokes on them. Think of Tool as the Andy
Kauffman of rock...or better yet, like AMR (who enjoys joking about notchers,
penises, etc.).
Ellen
"this next song is about deep passionate love..........and anal sex" -MJK live
(Sacramento 1998)
Ellen
>Well, I wouldn't flame you, but I'd respectfully disagree. :)
That's cool.
> Sounds like
>maybe you two are just really excited about the new album.
Lateralus just keeps getting better with each listen.
>I got Lateralus about a week ago via covert means
Yeah...I've had it on mp3 for a week too, but that does not compare to the CD
quality sound.
>-D and while I've always
>been a big Tool fan, I don't think their music is diverse enough to fairly
>compare the two drummers. As much as I dig Tool, they're pretty one
>dimensional musically.
Here is the part where I disagree with you :) Tool has experienced major growth
since Opiate. Besides, the same could have been said about Rush if you only
looked at their first three albums! Right now, Tool is in their "Hemispheres"
phase.
> The drummer has a great, loose style which is
>something that always makes or breaks a band for me. But again, their music
>doesn't really cover enough ground to show how diverse or creative he may or
>may not be.
Have you listened to Lateralus (not the mp3s, but the album) with headphones
and heard all of the subtle drum work?
Also, have you seen Carey live during the AEnima tour? His drum solos are out
of this world in terms of creativity. Damn, he was playing a film (triggering
film clips and light for a true multimedia experience where you can hear and
see what he was doing), for Ged sake!
>On the other hand, Rush has so much material over so many years, and they
>always evolved, at least somewhat, from album to album.
I would never argue that Rush has evolved, but so is Tool. What I said was that
Neil is going to have to keep up HIS evolution in order for me to keep him as
my favorite drummer because Danny is giving him a tough battle. I am talking
about my OWN personal favorite rock drummer here, so what I say goes. You can
pick and choose your own :)
>I've always used "La Villa Strangiato" as a good example of Peart's
>diversity. Actually, the whole Hemispheres album is a good demonstration in
>creativity, and dynamics, odd meters, etc, for all the three of them.
>
>And then I'm thinking maybe the song "Eulogy" is probably the best example
>of the raw musicianship of Tool. And while I love it muchly, it's just not
>on the same level as Rush. But that's not to say that Tool's drummer
>doesn't necessarily have the same ability, just that Tool hasn't produced
>the kind of music that could really show it. I definitely wouldn't
>consider Tool "prog". They're just assbusting hard rock with good, tight
>musicians.
That depends on your definition of "prog."
>-dg
7 string bass
"Ellen" <emari...@aol.comatose> wrote in message
> >From: "7 string bass" 7str...@Xbellsouth.netX
>
> >they are, indeed, all true. maynard has done practically the same
routine
> >with tool each of the times that i've seen them.
>
> No he has not. Maynard has made a huge effort to keep APC and Tool
separate.
i guess he shops at laura ashley for APC and at the limited for tool ;-)
> Yes, Maynard has done some crazy things with Tool, but the exact instances
that
> whatshisface posted here were APC, not Tool.
>
> Besides, what does Maynard's appearance have to do with the music anyway?
nothing whatsoever, of course. just sorta pointing that out. ;-)
actually, the fact that they take their music seriously and yet also
attempt, and succeed, at putting on a good show is another reason
why i like them.
7 string bass
"Fumika N" <Fum...@MailAndNews.com> wrote in message
"Pink
> Floyd" albums was "Proof that you can't listen to a light show") was good.
> Those ersatz Pink Floyd shows (and albums) were BAD. No real musician
would
> want to emulate them.
oh, are you a real musician?
well, i am, and i would love to be able to emulate a floyd show. i've done
security for 5 different floyd shows, they were some of the best concerts
i've
ever been to, including rush (who incidentally i've seen at least 2x for
every
concert since moving pictures).
you, my friend, are ignorant, and musician magazine isn't going to help
there.
7 string bass
"Fumika N" <Fum...@MailAndNews.com> wrote in message
> >===== Original Message From emari...@aol.comatose (Ellen) =====
> >>There's no basis for supposing
> >>they're
> >>satanic.
> >
> >As is there is no basis for you to be claiming that Tool does the same
things
> >as A Perfect Circle (they are two completely different bands, you know).
>
> They're not completely different; they have the same frontperson, who
> indulges
> in the same attention-seeking antics.
>
> Geddy Lee has no interest in such antics. He's there to sing and play the
> bass.
> He is a musician.
oh, so i guess you never saw what he used to wear when they toured
for hemispheres.
changey
show i went to. he also had fake tits and a hell of a bustiere on. i've
seen bootleg TOOL concerts where maynard has simulated masturbation on
stage... personally, i liked the first time i saaw tool the best, when
maynard was painted blue and had light sensitive spots painted all over him.
but i do agree with you about "what does his appearance have to do with the
music? "
Ellen wrote in message <20010516191721...@ng-mj1.aol.com>...
Edgecenter
keyboards...kinda tough to do that "in costume", though he did do it wearing a
kimono :o)
2)keenan does what he does, supposedly, to DISTRACT from "james keenan,
artist"...in other words, he feels like a free, creative person outside the
stage...but when it's time to Play, he puts on the costume...
3)it's not like slipknot or manson or kiss(or mudvayne?), where the costume is
to GET attention...tool had attention back when maynard just had the goofy,
flat mullet mohawk...only when things started getting more elaborate did he
feel the "need" to keep up...it's simple---tool almost never even takes
pictures, but when they do, maynard looks all normal---what the above bands do
is draw u in with their "i'm a freak, worship me" getups, which they wear in
publicity photos constantly...while maynard only wears a funny little costume
on stage sometimes, to better get in the mood of the intensity the music calls
for...
Edgecenter
& no, i was, like ellen, just pointing out the difference between apc & tool,
which maynard recognized(because he knew tool fans, rabid as they are, were
gonna judge this little "tougher cure" type group aagainst "the mighty
tool"...plus, maybe it helped him get into different modes for each
group...he's said many times that perfect circle was about exlporing the
intuitive, feminine side of him...something i dont hear a lot of hardrock
frontmen commenting on, inviting their macho male fans to do the same...)
as for "sodomy", obviously u DO care if he "sings" about it, otherewise, youd
have no problems with rush singing about it...
maynard has not ONCE written a song expicitely about freaking sodomy :o) ...it
was always a thinly veiled metaphor for other, deeper concerns...
just like "hemispheres" wasnt really about a ship going down the black hole, &
the tribes he encountered...if neil wants to even then be a bit more up front
about his lyrical concerns, then thats cool...but i like maynard's way as well,
where he has a definate meaning...but the listener is open to interpret it in
their own lives...for u, u apprantly simply got "anal sex" out of it...makes me
wonder about u :o)
& sorry, i thought u meant "who would want to emulate a tool live
show?"...while tool are dynamic, passionate musicians on stage(in terms of what
they play), pink floyd strike me as rather laconic sometimes...
Edgecenter
zepplein?
Edgecenter
antics...hence, by comparison, tool's bass player is very quiet :o)
now, ged is one of my favorite songwriters, & obviously a tremendous
bassist...but tool's bassist(since 95)has shown fine songwriting instincts, &
is a fairly unique player...saying geddy wipes the floor with him is kindof an
apparant statement, but we know this(tool's bass player knows this :o) ...this
doesnt dismiss the goodness in what justin does...
& he plays a wal, geddy's old bass... :o)
Edgecenter
is most of the time), has a great voice, very melodic, emotional, sweet, & yet
very, very powerful at times...if u like freddie mercury better, so be it...but
fred seemed a tad overdramatic/showy to me, vocally, sometimes...though, I
ADMIT, i havent heard a lot of queen...from what i have heard, i'll take
maynard's brand of artistry...he at least seems to have something intelligent &
intrinsic to say...
that being said, mayne is a fan of freddie...
Edgecenter
"Rock God" thing, where fans would just blindly follow any claptrap their idols
would sing, because it seemed Big & Mysterious...tool are, in their own quirky
way, trying to tear down that wall a bit...
i think kadima(?)'s problem with tool, is this "theyre now on par with rush,
queen, zep" stuff...but i think tool are simply welll on their way...but
compared to today's music scene, tool truly are gods...dont knock it :o)
Edgecenter
neil's drum solo...intricate, a song, yet improvised as well...with a brillaint
use of electronic percussion...while danny is cool as hell, with his"humans can
evolve to be god-like" mantra, therefore, he fills every space in his
perfomance(of songs)with SOMETHING...it's so cool, u dont even notice it...it's
just a part of the ambiance of the song...but this being said, danny might go
to the "doublebass" thing too often(he says adam always gets him to do more :o)
...im a devoted geek for double bass, & even I admit, dan maybe relies on it a
bit too much(not like neil doesnt)
rush's songs...ged & alex, for the past ten years, have written glorified pop
songs...while tool now write open ended early rush epics...so, of course, danny
seems like the more creative drummer right now...both drummers respond to the
music created by their bassist & guitarist...& danny has that much more leeway,
because tool are on their 3rd album, still exploring like little kids :o)
& finally...i dont hear danny writing many lyrics...i know, he doesnt need to,
but what true, professional exploration does he have outside
drumming...?...whenever people say to me "aw, neil, he;s overrated", i always
say..."that drummer that u think is better?...show me his poetry"...people have
their limits, & neil has expanded his, to actually be included amongst some of
the best drummers ever...but also with some of the top lyricists ever(imo)
Fumika N
>"Fumika N" <Fum...@MailAndNews.com> wrote in message
>> >===== Original Message From user5...@aol.com (User549318) =====
>>
>> Anyway, I quoted them because the particualar quote (One of the recent
>"Pink
>> Floyd" albums was "Proof that you can't listen to a light show") was good.
>> Those ersatz Pink Floyd shows (and albums) were BAD. No real musician
>would
>> want to emulate them.
>
>oh, are you a real musician?
>well, i am, and i would love to be able to emulate a floyd show.
My sympathies! You sound more like a bad karaoke performer than a real
musician. Those PF shows (which weren't even REALLY Pink Floyd to begin
with)
were dreadful snoozefests.
>i've done
>security for 5 different floyd shows, they were some of the best concerts
>i've
>ever been to, including rush (who incidentally i've seen at least 2x for
>every
>concert since moving pictures).
What were you on?
I attended one of those PF shows, and by far the most entertaining part of
it
was watching the acid-casualties' antics. The "music" was the most
lethargic
sludge I've had the displeasure to encounter.
>you, my friend, are ignorant, and musician magazine isn't going to help
>there.
If you wallowed with such bliss in those phony Pink Floyd shows, I'm not
surprised of your hostility towards Musician magazine. It was in Musician
that we learned that Gilmour had been bending over for the studio
executives,
and obsequiously carrying out their instructions to make his wretched music
fit THEIR plans!
Fumika N
>"Fumika N" <Fum...@MailAndNews.com> wrote in message
>> >===== Original Message From emari...@aol.comatose (Ellen) =====
>> >>There's no basis for supposing
>> >>they're
>> >>satanic.
>> >
>> >As is there is no basis for you to be claiming that Tool does the same
>things
>> >as A Perfect Circle (they are two completely different bands, you know).
>>
>> They're not completely different; they have the same frontperson, who
>> indulges
>> in the same attention-seeking antics.
>>
>> Geddy Lee has no interest in such antics. He's there to sing and play the
>> bass.
>> He is a musician.
>
>oh, so i guess you never saw what he used to wear when they toured
>for hemispheres.
Don't tell me, did he don a bra and commence masturbation-simulation?
Fumika N
>this is "user"...
>maynard has not ONCE written a song expicitely about freaking sodomy :o)
...it
>was always a thinly veiled metaphor for other, deeper concerns...
Such as?
>just like "hemispheres" wasnt really about a ship going down the black hole,
&
>the tribes he encountered...if neil wants to even then be a bit more up front
>about his lyrical concerns, then thats cool...but i like maynard's way as
well,
>where he has a definate meaning...but the listener is open to interpret it in
>their own lives...for u, u apprantly simply got "anal sex" out of it...makes
me
>wonder about u :o)
The problem with all this is that Keenan's admitted that some of his songs
are
about sodomy.
>& sorry, i thought u meant "who would want to emulate a tool live
>show?"...while tool are dynamic, passionate musicians on stage(in terms of
what
>they play), pink floyd strike me as rather laconic sometimes...
That's one way to put it! When I saw PF, they looked and sounded as if they
were ready to fall asleep. Most of the audience seemed to feel the same
way.
Except for one porcine security guard, who, between guzzles of Bud, kept
raving about how this was the best night of his life.
Ellen
I pretty much agree with you here (except I like the double bass) and I am well
aware of what Neil has done in the past. I am comparing both drummers as they
stand today, however. It will be interesting to find out what Neil will be
doing on the new Rush album and it will also be interesting to see what Carey
does in the future.
Honestly, I really just pitted the two against each other to get a rise out of
folks. They are both excellent and well respected drummers, however I would
like to see Neil become a bit more creative in the future (because I know that
he has it in him). It would be neat to hear more of his solo work throughout
the rest of Rush's songs.
Ellen
>i have to agree with 7string here ellen- maynard has warn a wig at a TOOL
>show i went to.
The blonde one? I've only seen the black wig for Tool. I've only heard of the
blonde one for APC.
Edgecenter
metaphors(which i didnt even think that was the implication till people like u
started to harp on it :o)
but "stinkfist", deals with over stimulation, subtlety, & why they should mix,
as opposed to being opposites...
or...what did U get out of it?...wow, what a concept, having lyrics that dont
preach or overtly teach to u(which i love neil's lyrics for, BTW)
& again, u missed my earlier point...they are playing with that whole concept
of "we are godrockband...u do what we say, believe in what we say"...u fell for
it, it seems...or maybe, again, u just like didactic, black & white lyrics...
Edgecenter
it...but in terms of "creativity", danny goes to that well a ton...
but...at least neil was on that experiment of "rehashing/rehoning" his drum
style, 5 years ago or so...i'm breathless to see what he has in store for the
next record...i think it'll be freaky good...frankly(& not to be morose or
disrespectful), but i would think a positive of the, um, past situation, would
be an reappreciation of being creative beings...ya know...?
Fumika N
led
>zepplein?
Or maybe it's because Tool decided to capitalize on the breakup of
Soundgarden
by copying some aspects of their sound.
I definitely hear plenty o'Soundgarden in Tool.
BTW, some people are making a big fuss about Tool's use of odd-time
signatures, in order to try and make Tool seem musically credible. Well,
Soundgarden was doing it before Tool was!
Edgecenter
our)amusement...
the last tool show i went to, in maine(98)at the airplane hanger with 15000
other kids...mayne had the bald pate, the stripped body(just shorts), but he
had his face painted a sickly white, like a demented, ghostly clown...& as he
sang, the face seemed to melt...made the performance all the more eerie, &
somewhat more powerful...
i'm just sorry kamika has brazenly lumped tool with slipknot & kiss, who NEEDED
the attention their makeup brings, & used it from the start...while this
"costume" thing is only a recent maynard contribution in the annals of tool...
& last night, supposedly, he wore all black leather, with shaved head, no paint
:o) ...is the MUSIC better for u that way, kamik? :o)
Fumika N
>antics...hence, by comparison, tool's bass player is very quiet :o)
Yeah, they need to put a wig on him, as well...
>now, ged is one of my favorite songwriters, & obviously a tremendous
>bassist...but tool's bassist(since 95)has shown fine songwriting instincts, &
>is a fairly unique player...
Geddy's bass lines are a lot more active & noticeable than Justin's.
There's
a diffident, meek quality to Justin's playing. One might even call it
"effeminate."
>saying geddy wipes the floor with him is kindof an
>apparant statement, but we know this(tool's bass player knows this :o)
...this
>doesnt dismiss the goodness in what justin does...
>& he plays a wal, geddy's old bass... :o)
That's right, he's got Geddy's bass. Now if only he had some of Geddy's
ability...
Ged a wig on him, and maybe we won't notice!!!
Edgecenter
tool capitalizing on soundgarden?...if soundgarden released a record now, after
so many years apart, it wouldnt have NEAR the clamour that this tool release is
receiving...your argument was a severe stretch...tool have no need, nor want,
to ape soundfreakinggarden...
as for odd time signatures, wow, who cares, honestly...how long were
soundgarden out?...'89?...anyone?...the reason tool sounds like the garden
sometimes(supposedly)is because both bands are big proponents of led zepp &
rush...
Fumika N
>is most of the time), has a great voice, very melodic, emotional, sweet, &
yet
>very, very powerful at times...
Maynard's a vocal chameleon. He's always hiding behind myriad effects.
Will
the real Maynard ever show himself? *Is there* a real Maynard?
>if u like freddie mercury better, so be it...but
>fred seemed a tad overdramatic/showy to me, vocally, sometimes...
I agree, he was extremely flamboyant. Most gay stars are.
>though, I ADMIT, i havent heard a lot of queen...
Everyone in Queen was good, and they had their own sound. They weren't
Soundgarden Mk.II. Check out their records from the mid-70s.
>from what i have heard, i'll take
>maynard's brand of artistry...he at least seems to have something intelligent
&
>intrinsic to say...
>that being said, mayne is a fan of freddie...
I'll bet!
Edgecenter
record?...apprantly... :o( <<
Ellen
>There's
>a diffident, meek quality to Justin's playing. One might even call it
>"effeminate."
LOL I'd call you a troll, but this is not a Tool NG :)
Edgecenter
:o)
& if u think maynard simply shows himself behind effects, than youre showing
your ignorance of the subject...an ignorance u won't disprove by answering a
direct query...how much of this band have u heard?
Fumika N
>whenever people say to me "aw, neil, he;s overrated", i always
>say..."that drummer that u think is better?...
People who say "Neil is overrated" are usually proponents of the idiotic
"Less
is more, dude," platitude. And the reason they like the platitude is that
less is all they're capable of. They worship mediocrity. And there's no
room
for Neil Peart in a mindset that revels in mediocrity.
Fumika N
>
>>i have to agree with 7string here ellen- maynard has warn a wig at a TOOL
>>show i went to.
>
>The blonde one? I've only seen the black wig for Tool. I've only heard of the
>blonde one for APC.
And THAT is the essence of the difference between Tool and APC. The
color of Maynard's wigs.
Ellen
> And THAT is the essence of the difference between Tool and APC. The
>color of Maynard's wigs.
So tell me...how many Tool albums do you own? How many times have you seen them
live, churchlady?
Edgecenter
have the gall to continue on your pithy plight with this...<< And THAT is
Fumika N
I'm all for lyrics that make use of metaphor, symbolism, studied ambiguity,
etc.
It just seems to me that Maynard's lyrics are a bit crass & disgusting.
They
don't strike me as subtle at all. They seem to cry out for attention (a la
Maynard and his endless costumes) by being as ugly as possible. And the
fans
rationalize away the ugliness by saying, "Oh, that's just metaphor." But
when
pressed as to "A metaphor for *what*?" they don't have a straight answer.
Fumika N
>i'm just sorry kamika has brazenly lumped tool with slipknot & kiss, who
NEEDED
>the attention their makeup brings, & used it from the start...
That's right. Tool are sort of a more high-tech version of KISS. Only,
instead of singing about wanting to "rock and roll all night," Maynard sings
about turds, etc.
>while this
>"costume" thing is only a recent maynard contribution in the annals of
tool...
>& last night, supposedly, he wore all black leather, with shaved head, no
paint
>:o) ...is the MUSIC better for u that way, kamik? :o)
He needs to lose the costumes altogether & take some singing lessons.
Fumika N
...and because Maynard saw that Soundgarden were missed by their fans and
that
he could exploit that, to his own financial gain.
Ellen
>
>I'm all for lyrics that make use of metaphor, symbolism, studied ambiguity,
>etc.
>It just seems to me that Maynard's lyrics are a bit crass & disgusting.
Oh? Could you please point this out to me in these lyrics (I certainly hope
that you can, since this is an entire album):
01) The Grudge
wear the grudge like a crown of negativity
calculate what we will or will not tolerate
desperate to control all and everything
unable to forgive your scarlet lettermen
clutch it like a cornerstone
otherwise it all comes down
justify denials and
grip them to the lonesome end
clutch it like a cornerstone
otherwise it all comes down
terrified of being wrong
ultimatum: prison cell
saturn ascends
choose one or ten
hang on or be humbled again
humbled again
clutch it like a cornerstone
otherwise it all comes down
justify denials and
grip them to the lonesome end
saturn ascends
comes 'round again
saturn ascends
the one, the ten
ignorant to the damage done
wear the grudge like a crown of negativity
calculate what you will or will not tolerate
desperate to control all and everything
unable to forgive your scarlet lettermen
wear the grudge like a crown
desperate to control
unable to forgive
and sinking deeper
defining
confining
sinking deeper
controlling
defining
and we're sinking deeper
saturn comes back around to show you everything
lets you choose what you will or will not see and then
drags you down like a stone or lifts you up again
spits you out like a child, light and innocent
saturn comes back around
lifts you up like a child
or drags you down like a stone
to consume you 'til you choose to let this go
choose to let this go
give away the stone
let the oceans take and transmutate this cold and fated anchor
give away the stone
let the waters kiss and transmutate these leaden grudges into gold
[?]
let go
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
02) Eon Blue Apocalypse
[no lyrics]
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
03) The Patient
how long
a groan of tedium escapes me
startling
fearful
is this a test
it has to be
otherwise i can't go on
draining patience
drain vitality
this paranoid paralyzed vampire act's a little old
but i'm still right here
giving blood, keeping faith
and i'm still right here
but i'm still right here
giving blood, keeping faith
and i'm still right here
wait it out
gonna wait it out
we wait it out
[?]
if there was no reward to reap
a loving embrace to see me through
this tedious path i've chosen here
i certainly would have walked away by now
gonna wait it out
if there was no desire to heal
the damaged and broken man along
this tedious path i've chosen here
i certainly would have walked away by now
and i still may
i still may
be patient
be patient
be patient
i must be reminding myself of this
i must be reminding myself of this
i must be reminding myself of this
i must be reminding myself of this
and if there were no reward to reap
a loving embrace to see me through
this tedious path i've chosen here
i certainly would have walked away by now
and i still may
and i still may
and i still may
and i am
gonna wait it out
gonna wait it out
wait it out
gonna wait it out
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
04) Mantra
no words
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
05) Schism
i know the pieces fit 'cause i watched them fall away
mildewed and smoldering, fundamental differing
pure intention juxtaposed will set two lovers' souls in motion
disintegrating as it goes, testing our communication
the light that fueled our fire then has burned a hole between us
so we cannot see to reach an end, crippling our communication
i know the pieces fit 'cause i watched them tumble down
no fault, none to blame, it doesn't mean i don't desire
to point the finger, blame the other, watch the temple topple over
to bring the pieces back together, rediscover communication
the poetry that comes from the squaring off between
and the circling is worth it, finding beauty in the dissonance
there was a time that the pieces fit but i watched them fall away
mildewed and smoldering, strangled by our coveting
i've done the math enough to know the dangers of our second guessing
doomed to crumble unless we grow and strengthen our communication
cold
cold
cold
cold silence has a tendency to atrophy any sense of compassion
between supposed lovers
between supposed lovers
i know the pieces fit
i know the pieces fit
i know the pieces fit
i know the pieces fit
i know the pieces fit
i know the pieces fit
i know the pieces fit
and i know the pieces fit
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
06) Parabol
so familiar and overwhelmingly warm
this one
this form i hold now
embracing you this reality here
this one
this form i hold now
so wide-eyed and hopeful
wide-eyed and hopefully wild
we barely remember what came before this precious moment
choosing to be here right now
hold on
stay inside this body holding me
reminding me that i am not alone
in this body makes me feel eternal
all this pain is an illusion
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
07) Parabola
we barely remember who or what came before this precious moment
we are choosing to be here right now
hold on
stay inside
this holy reality
this holy experience
choosing to be here in this body
this body holding me
be my reminder here that i am not alone in this body
this body holding me
feeling eternal
all this pain is an illusion
alive
in this holy reality
in this holy experience
choosing to be here in this body
this body holding me
be my reminder here that i am not alone in this body
this body holding me
feeling eternal
all this pain is an illusion
twirling 'round with this familiar parable
spinning, weaving 'round each new experience
recognize this as a holy gift
and celebrate this chance to be alive and breathing
a chance to be alive and breathing
this body holding me reminds me of my own mortality
embrace this moment
remember we are eternal
all this pain is an illusion
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
08) Ticks & Leeches
suck and suck
sucking up all you can
sucking up all you can
suck and suck
working up under my patience like a little tick
fat little parasite
suck me dry
my [friend?] is bruised and borrowed
you thieving bastards
you have turned my blood cold and bitter
beat my compassion black and blue
hope this is what you wanted
hope this is what you had in mind
'cause this is what you're getting
i hope you're choking
i hope you choke on this
i hope you're choking
i hope you choke on this
taken all i can
taken all i can
i can take
taken all you can
taken all you can
we can take
got nothing left to give to you
blood sucking parasitic little tick
blood sucking parasitic little
blood sucking parasitic little tick
take what you want and then go
hope this is what you wanted
hope this is what you had in mind
'cause this is what you're getting
[?]
suck me dry
suck
suck me dry
sucking me dry
suck
suck me dry
[?]
is this what you wanted
is this what you had in mind
is this what you wanted
'cause this this is what you're getting
i hope
i hope
i hope you choke
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
09) Lateralis
black then white are all i see in my infancy
red and yellow then came to be reaching out to me
lets me see
as below so above and beyond i imagine
drawn beyond the lines of reason
push the envelope
watch it bend
over-thinking over-analyzing separates the body from the mind
withering my intuition, missing opportunities and i must
feed my will to feel my moment drawing way outside the lines
black then white are all i see in my infancy
red and yellow then came to be reaching out to me
lets me see
there is so much more
and beckons me to look through to these
infinite possibilities
as below so above and beyond i imagine
drawn outside the lines of reason
push the envelope
watch it bend
over-thinking over-analyzing separates the body from the mind
withering my intuition leaving opportunities behind
feed my will to feel this moment urging me to cross the line
reaching out to embrace the random
reaching out to embrace whatever may come
i embrace my desire to embrace my desire
to feel the rhythm
to feel connected
enough to step aside and weep like a widow
to feel inspired
to fathom the power
to witness the beauty
to bathe in the fountain
to swing on the spiral
to swing on the spiral
to swing on the spiral of our divinity and still be a human
with my feet upon the ground i lose myself between the sounds
and open wide to suck it in i feel it move across my skin
i'm reaching up and reaching out
i'm reaching for the random
or whatever will bewilder me
whatever will bewilder me
and following our will and whim
we may just go where no one's been
we'll ride the spiral to the end
and may just go where no one's been
spiral out
keep going
spiral out
keep going
spiral out
keep going
spiral out
keep going
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
10) Disposition
mention this to me
mention this to me
watch the weather change
watch the weather change
watch the weather change
watch the weather change
mention this to me
mention something
mention anything
mention this to me
watch the weather change
watch the weather change
watch the weather change
watch the weather change
watch the weather change
watch the weather change
mention this to me
and mention something
mention anything
mention this to me
watch the weather
watch the weather change
watch the weather change
watch the weather
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
11) Reflection
i have come curiously close to the end though
beneath my self-indulgent pitiful hole
defeated, conceded
move closer
i may find comfort here
i may find peace within the emptiness coming for me
it's calling me
it's calling me
it's calling me
it's calling me
and in my darkest moment, feeble and weeping
the moon tells me a secret, her confidant
as full and bright as i am
this light is not my own
and familiar light reflections pass over me
the source is the light that men [?]
the source [?] place called hopeless
without her we are lifeless satellites drifting
and as i pull my head out
i am without one doubt
you wanna [?] down here
survey my narcissism
i must crucify the ego
before it's far too late
i pray the light lifts me out
before i pine away
before i pine away
before i hide away
before i pine away
so crucify the ego before it's far too late
and leave behind this place so negative and blind and cynical
and you will come to find that we are all one mind
capable of all that's imagined and all-conceivable
so let the light touch you
so that the words spill through
and let the past break through
bringing out our hope and reason
before we hide away
before we hide away
before we hide away
before we hide away
Fumika N
say
>:o)
I didn't say that! I just agreed that Freddie was into showmanship.
However,
unlike Maynard, he could actually sing.
>& if u think maynard simply shows himself behind effects, than youre showing
>your ignorance of the subject...an ignorance u won't disprove by answering a
>direct query...how much of this band have u heard?
All of the official releases, plus many of the boots. My roommate is a big
fan of Tool.
He also developed some strange personal habits since getting into Tool.
Edgecenter
i dealt with a woman who thought the EXACT same way u did anout maynard's
words...too crass, etc...until i referred her to "toolshed.down.net(no "www.)",
where maynard has posted his lyrics...she went from being disgusted by what she
heard from about 3 really early songs(& MISSING the fact that maynard sometimes
takes on characters, to expose their flaws...characters who are all around us,
but we excuse...maynard was pointing out the excuses)...read deeper,
man...plus, then this woman came out of the lyrics for "undertow" & "aenima"
with a viewpoint that he's a poet with some depth...
keep covering your ears & your eyes...even though some intelligent rush fans
are pointing out something cool that youve misidentified...sounds like fun...
Fumika N
>
>> And THAT is the essence of the difference between Tool and APC. The
>>color of Maynard's wigs.
>
them
>live, churchlady?
I don't go to Church. I don't worship at the altar of Maynard, either.
I've seen some of their bootleg vids, and heard both official CDs and boots.
My roommate, as I told Edge, is a hardcore Tool fan. Unfortunately, since
getting into that stuff, he's become a very different person. He's gone to
the dogs, so to speak.
Edgecenter
lyrics this way as well, but i hear maynard have a definate point...but, he
seems to even phrase lyrics in ways that can mean different things...why he has
"offically" posted them, intitially...again, so YOU actually can have a hand in
the art...a small example from "the patient" that ellen typed up---
"gonna wait it out...gonna weigh it out...& gonna weight it out"...small,
obvious example, but one nontheless...
& just like, from the same song, "no loving embrace" sounds like "no being
praised", as if, if there was no being praised to see me through, different
meanings for the word/concept of "being"...
"i certainly wouldve walked away...by now"
Ellen
>All of the official releases, plus many of the boots. My roommate is a big
>fan of Tool.
I don't believe you, but lets try a little test, shall we?
Quick:
What is the hidden track on Opiate about?
What unusual sound sample is toward the end and about how long does it last?
Then what happens after that?
What song on Undertow has a guest speaker?
Why do some people feel that Tool are nazis after listening to aenima?
Where is the line, "so good to see you once again" from?
These are all easy questions and anyone who has heard these albums to the
extent of being able to judge them should know the answers without having to
look them up :)
Edgecenter
heard...u actually had the crass stupidity to equate tool with kiss, & say they
sing about turds...get your wife or friend back on the computer, the one who
wrote "mediocrity has no place for neil peart"...i wanna talk to that
person...not the stubborn idiot who bases whole opinions on snippets &
slivers...closemidedness leads to mediocrity...how the hell do u think neil got
to be so good, in so many endevours...?
Edgecenter
tool have always been bigger than soundgarden, or at least on par...now, they
are MUCH bigger, based on their record in 96, & their record in 93...so many
tool fans, ive noticed, caught onto those records in the past 5 years...
so, YEAH, instead of building on their sound that so many people like...theyre
just gonna rip off soundgarden, a band that just isnt as popular, active or
not, as tool are...
yes, this makes sense...
Edgecenter
enough to answer...but how many times have u heard those two records?...have u
ever say down, with headphones, & truly listened?...& youre really gonna
dismiss this band without hearing the new one, the one some fans are saying is
their best?
& youre gonna base your opinion on crappy video bootlegs?
& most succinctly, youre basing your opinion of tool on the fact that your
roommate is an idiot, & flushed himself down the toilet?...if he;s friends with
u, he must have been nicely closeminded, & not heard the brilliant,
life-affirming words of tool's lyrics...the last two records(before the new
one, which is the most positive, overtly, which is what u seem to need), were
maynard dealing with a f*cked up childhood, & confronting it, & purging the
negativity...
now, at least we see a concrete example as to why u feel the way u do...
Edgecenter
available on that site i mentioned...
let me apolgize to all fellow rush fans...no new rush product in 5 years,
things like this happen :o)
& defending maynard against closedminded claptraps, to me, is almost akin to
doing the same with neil, which ive done countless times...plenty of room for
both, mr.fumik... :o) ...though is there enough room for freddie mercury, neil
peart, & maynard?...apparantly not...maybe i just dont like freddie's OVERT,
boisterous, *ahem*, SHOWY vocal style...
Ellen
>What unusual sound sample is toward the end and about how long does it last?
On Undertow.
Fumika N
Yeah, it makes sense that Soundgarden aren't as active as Tool.
Soundgarden broke up four or five years ago...
Fumika N
>heard...
What? I've answered it twice already.
u actually had the crass stupidity to equate tool with kiss, & say they
>sing about turds...
I didn't say they were exactly like Kiss. But I think some valid
comparisons
can be made between the two groups. Look, Kiss are cool in some ways. They
helped Rush get started in the early days, for example. So don't assume
that
my comparisons between Tool and Kiss are meant just to demean Tool. There
are
a lot of "positive" aspects to the Tool-Kiss comparison. For example, both
bands are very popular -- especially among youngsters. Youth is a difficult
time for a lot of people, so it's important to have music you can relate to.
Like Kiss, Tool provides kids with that.
The problem is that, while Kiss were all about partying, etc., Tool are a
bit
darker, a bit seemier, a bit sordid.
Edge, you seem like a nice enough person, and we're disagreeing in a
basically
civil fashion, which is good.
One of the reasons I don't like Tool involves the effect that music had on
my
roommate's life. Before he got into Tool, he was basically a stable, happy
person. He was engaged to his girlfriend of 3 years.
When he got into Tool, everything went down the tubes. His entire, um,
orientation changed. He tried to LIVE Maynard's songs. He tried to follow
what he thought Maynard's message was. I probably shouldn't say much more.
Suffice it to say that he's messed up, and Tool is a big part of it.
>get your wife or friend back on the computer, the one who
>wrote "mediocrity has no place for neil peart"...i wanna talk to that
>person...not the stubborn idiot who bases whole opinions on snippets &
>slivers...closemidedness leads to mediocrity...how the hell do u think neil
got
>to be so good, in so many endevours...?
Effort, luck, and talent.
Fumika N
>
>>All of the official releases, plus many of the boots. My roommate is a big
>>fan of Tool.
>
>I don't believe you, but lets try a little test, shall we?
Those are things that a serious fan would know. I'm not a serious fan.
And you, too, would be a critic, if you saw what Maynard's stuff had reduced
my roommate to.
>
>Quick:
>
>What is the hidden track on Opiate about?
>
>What unusual sound sample is toward the end and about how long does it last?
>
>Then what happens after that?
>
>What song on Undertow has a guest speaker?
>
>Why do some people feel that Tool are nazis after listening to aenima?
>
>Where is the line, "so good to see you once again" from?
>
>These are all easy questions and anyone who has heard these albums to the
>extent of being able to judge them should know the answers without having to
>look them up :)
>
>
>
>
>Ellen
>
>"And the day will come, when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the Supreme
>Being as His Father, in the womb of a virgin, will be classed with the fable
of
>the generation of Minerva, in the brain of Jupiter." -Thomas Jefferson
>
"There are no rules for dealing with the memories of dead rock'n'roll
stars."
-- Samuel Havadtoy
Edgecenter
...tool lyrics are ANYHTING but dark, seemy, sordid...i truly am sorry that
your friend/roommate has/is going down the tube, but tool have NOTHING to do
with that...all he was doing was hearing the aggression in the music, &
responding to that...kinda sad...i hope he's ok...
but wow, i cannot believe he used maynard's words to such crap effect...thats
heartbreaking, in a way...he just didnt listen...hmmm
i mean, i'm sorry, but it is just too simple to think that music is the
downfall of him, esp. this music...what happened with his fiancee, his
childhood, etc?
Edgecenter
overtly influenced tool...especially since many people just claim soundgarden
are apeing led zepplein,,,any similarities start there...
Edgecenter
say, from childhood, probably worse problems then your friend had...& she was
going through a horrific divorce when i met her...
& the empty platitudes of creed werent quite helping...but tool(& perfect
circle first)did...
just for reference...
that being said, some tool fans are even saying "look, theyre not a prog
band...theyre just not" :o) ...as if they dont measure up, in terms of that
musical description...thats ok with me :o)
Daniel McConnell
i would claim soundgarden are more derivative of Black Sabbath than Zep.
Also - Tool and Soundgarden began their careers at the same time and
independently of each other, its not likely that one would be heavily
influenced by the other.
rflagg
"7 string bass" wrote
i've done
> security for 5 different floyd shows, they were some of the best concerts
> i've
> ever been to, including rush (who incidentally i've seen at least 2x for
> every
> concert since moving pictures).
I had the pleasure of seeing Floyd twice during the "Momentary Lapse of
Reason" tour and I thought the shows were spectacular. The musicianship was
superb and the theatrically effects were beyond compare. If Tool wants to
emulate a Floyd show, sign me up for tickets right now!!
--
Flagg
Better to reign in hell, than to serve in heaven.
-- John Milton "Paradise Lost"
7 string bass
in the satin ball-hugger jammies, green silk scarf,
green eyeshadow and black mascara. definitely not
the garb of a musician only interested in the music.
--
__________________
john turner
http://lordonly.net
original music
"whoever wants music instead of noise,
joy instead of pleasure, soul instead of
gold, creative work instead of business,
passion instead of foolery finds no
home in this trivial world of ours"
- hermann hesse
"Fumika N" <Fum...@MailAndNews.com> wrote in message
news:3B03...@MailAndNews.com...
> >===== Original Message From "7 string bass" <7str...@Xbellsouth.netX>
=====
> >"Fumika N" <Fum...@MailAndNews.com> wrote in message
> >news:3B03...@MailAndNews.com...
> >> >===== Original Message From emari...@aol.comatose (Ellen) =====
> >> >>There's no basis for supposing
> >> >>they're
> >> >>satanic.
> >> >
> >> >As is there is no basis for you to be claiming that Tool does the same
> >things
> >> >as A Perfect Circle (they are two completely different bands, you
know).
> >>
> >> They're not completely different; they have the same frontperson, who
> >> indulges
> >> in the same attention-seeking antics.
> >>
> >> Geddy Lee has no interest in such antics. He's there to sing and play
the
> >> bass.
> >> He is a musician.
> >
> >oh, so i guess you never saw what he used to wear when they toured
> >for hemispheres.
>
> Don't tell me, did he don a bra and commence masturbation-simulation?
7 string bass
news:3B03...@MailAndNews.com...
> >===== Original Message From "7 string bass" <7str...@Xbellsouth.netX>
=====
> >
> >well, i am, and i would love to be able to emulate a floyd show.
>
> My sympathies! You sound more like a bad karaoke performer than a real
> musician. Those PF shows (which weren't even REALLY Pink Floyd to begin
> with)
> were dreadful snoozefests.
oh, have you heard me play? then how can you tell how i sound?
thanks for the complement, though, i would expect that kind
of review for my band from a reader of MUSICIAN MAGAZINE.
some criticism is very flattering, considering the source.
> If you wallowed with such bliss in those phony Pink Floyd shows, I'm not
> surprised of your hostility towards Musician magazine. It was in Musician
> that we learned that Gilmour had been bending over for the studio
> executives,
> and obsequiously carrying out their instructions to make his wretched
music
> fit THEIR plans!
oh, so MUSICIAN MAGAZINE had the scoop, huh. well, we all know
MUSICIAN MAGAZINE is the be all end all source for musical truth
on the planet. i can see david gilmore bending over for anybody,
really, i can.
i have a question. if MUSICIAN MAGAZINE was such a great source
of information, why haven't they been able to consistently stay in
business since they started publication?
what a maroon.