Fred Gruber Ruined Neil
Steve Grigsby
and he got it. He's much better as a result.
Steve
St2112 wrote in message <199808050313...@ladder01.news.aol.com>...
>romer...@aol.com (Romerodead) wrote:
>>Fuckin' admit it.
>
> You're insane.. Look at how much more graceful Neil's playing became
after
>taking advice from Gruber..
>
>
Romerodead
St2112
michael sherrill
i think neil is playing better now than ever.
sure he has always been awsome!
but now he has took it to new heights. i listened to tfe
the other day and really, he sounds like he always did.
i'm a drummer myself and i hear little things that he does
and it's harder to play that stuff than it sounds!
sure he had a lot of fills in the earlier stages, but he
has grown more aware of placement of structures and
things like that.
most drummers would know what i'm talking about anyway.
and he flows better.
the man is a genius in my opinion.
peace
mike
Sam 846
general, wouldn't say shit about Freddy Gruber.
douglas maher
>
> Absolutely...Neil is much more relaxed. He knew he needed some criticism,
> and he got it. He's much better as a result.
>
> Steve
>
> St2112 wrote in message <199808050313...@ladder01.news.aol.com>...
> >>Fuckin' admit it.
> >
> > You're insane.. Look at how much more graceful Neil's playing became
> after
> >taking advice from Gruber..
> >
> >
I must agree with Romerodead here.Gruber has no business with a Rock
drummer like Neil.Neil just got bored and listened to Steve Smith and
the rest of the Burning For Buddy squad.Neil used to play with power and
conviction.Tfe was weak and by far next to Roll The Bones his worst
performance.I am a drummer of 16 yrs and do have a solid opinion on
this.You want real drumming that took effort and solid playing listen to
these albums:
Power Windows
Signals
Moving Pictures
Permanent Waves
Hemispheres
Grace Under Pressure
Presto
Counterparts
Hold Your Fire
Exit Stage Left
Neil didnt need a jazz guy to come in and tell him how to play when he
already knew.Neil was just bored,inventing himself was just an excuse as
far as i am concerned.
Doulgas Maher
Sghorwitz
I think Neil's performance on TFE is outstanding. One look at the Work in
Progress videos should demonstrate that. No question, it is not quite as
power-driven and flashy as before, but that doesn't mean it's worse. It is
more subtle, more tasteful and more beautiful to listen to. Some great cymbal
work and really well thought-out contributions to the songs.
You don't have to hit the kit with a sledgehammer to be a great drummer. And
you don't need 5 tom fills every song to prove your chops.
Modern Drummer thought so too. I'll take their judgment over the opinions of
drummers-on-the-side any day.
The Professor (The drum work saves Dog Years...)
Romerodead
behind a kit like Neil's old configuration. That's a REAL set. He has all the
pieces and MORE. That means more playing. More sounds. Plus they had plastic
heads instead of the dull and soft coated heads that Neil went to to be like
these jazz geezers. Neil has lazy man's disease. he's a SLOUCH. There goes the
same old ride patterns. There goes the thud on the 16" floor tom. There goes
the 18" mimicing a true gong bass drum. There goes the 12" tom which the 10"
tom sounds indistinguishable from. How many times does he do the same fills in
the Work in Progress video? The fill he does in LIMBO. There's not alot you can
do with the set. His abilities are there, sure. He can play, sure. But GET
REAL. Todays's minimalist music scene has him taking drums away like a
hypocrite, saying he doesn't need all of them, just to fit in.
Modern Drummer has alwys tried to make Neil look good no matter what so I could
care less what they say...especially since Neil is on the advisory board. The
Work in Progress video is a bunch of talk and hardly any playing. Anyone who
has seen the 1986 Neil clinic (I know some fans here werent born yet) would say
Neil had it going on then and was at the peak of his playing. The old Neil will
inspire future drummers as always, not the 90s "take it easy on me now.." Neil.
Since when are fills not tasteful? He always served the groove and added
fills. He thinks you cant do both anymore.
The old Tama kit seperates the men from the boys. Too bad the clinic video is
so rare..there would be a unanimous agreement. Looks like there's still people
in denial.
Phil Essing
purely subjective. Neil felt he needed to re-think his approach to
drumming, and CHOSE Fred Gruber as his guide. What matters, is that HE grew
from the experience. To say Freg Gruber has no business in Rock is
presumptious and way too obnoxious. If your opinion should be held in such
high esteem, why don't you elaborate as to exactly why and how his (Peart)
playing hasn't been improved by this experience.
Also, to reiterate another poster's thoughts - I can't take the opinion of
someone who can't even write at a grade-four level, very seriously. Two
spaces after the period Mr. Maher.
-Phil (also a long-time drummer)
douglas maher wrote in message <35C807...@bellsouth.net>...
Matthew D. Sullivan
<snippity snip snip>
Ya that Neil sure is lazy. We're in denial all right.
Sheesh. Give us a break, Romerodead. You're allowed to criticize, but be
sensible about it.
-Matt S.
Joe Morisseau
romer...@aol.com says...
>Modern Drummer has alwys tried to make Neil look good no matter what so
I could
>care less what they say
And I could care less what you say...... even steven.
Ron Spiegelhalter
something like...
> Also, to reiterate another poster's thoughts - I can't take the opinion of
> someone who can't even write at a grade-four level, very seriously. Two
> spaces after the period Mr. Maher.
Interesting comma placement. I enjoy your fractured clause, too. I
think what you meant to say was "I can't take very seriously the opinion
of someone who can't even write at a grade-four [although "fourth grade"
would have been better] level." And there should be a comma after
the word "period" in the last sentence. Hey, if we're going to start
criticizing writing skills, let's get it on! (sentence intentionally
ended with a preposition) ;-)
Now let's get back to Rush, shall we?
--
ron
<ron2112 at empire dot net>
"Once upon a time when you saw roadkill you said "aw"
Now you say "good for you"
Maybe it's a certain enzyme you lack
And may all your T-shirts be black"
-Mike Keneally, "Top of Stove Melting"
www.moosenet.com/keneally.html
Phil Essing
Shakespeare. By refusing to properly write his posts, Mr. Maher has shown a
complete lack of respect for the readers of this ng.
-Phil
Ron Spiegelhalter wrote in message ...
Ron Spiegelhalter
something like...
> Perhaps my own grammar could use a little improving, I didn't claim to be
> Shakespeare.
No hard felings I hope. Just having a little fun. :-)
only a surfer knows the feeling
> drummer
????? That statement is just pure ignorance. Get your head out of your butt.
Andrew Chalupka
>
> If you honestly think Neil's playing has gotten better, you wouldn't last
> behind a kit like Neil's old configuration. That's a REAL set. He has all the
> pieces and MORE. That means more playing. More sounds.
<snip>
You sound as if Neil has somehow offended you.
Geez, maybe he thought he'd like to try something new (stripped-down
kit, different style, etc.). I'm just guessing that Neil is no longer
into a 600-piece kit doing 15 fills/minute on every song. It would be
really lame if kept doing that stuff just to keep the drum-geeks happy.
> The old Tama kit seperates the men from the boys.
I disagree. Any lame-ass drummer can hide behind a wall of drums (take
any 80's cheese-metal drummer as an example). It take a "real man" to
get it on with a 4-piece kit...
Andrew
--
e-mail: andcha at nortel dot ca
ddrummer
I'm going to do my best to respond to your post without flaming you,
but the way that you present your opinions might make it a little
difficult. OK, you've been playing for 16 years. I'm sure you must
have learned a thing or two in that time. I'd venture a guess that
there are several drummers on this group who've been playing a lot
longer than both of us, 22 years in my case. Let's take each point in
turn:
On Wed, 05 Aug 1998 11:15:19 GMT, douglas maher <dma...@bellsouth.net>
wrote:
>Gruber has no business with a Rock drummer like Neil.
Why not? The things that Gruber teaches are, from all accounts (well,
Dave Weckl, Steve Smith, and Neil Peart anyway) not tied to a specific
genre or style of playing. It's simply a mechanics/flow kind of
thing.
>Neil just got bored and listened to Steve Smith and
>the rest of the Burning For Buddy squad.
What do you mean 'the rest of the Burning For Buddy squad?' As Neil
has stated, Steve Smith was a player he'd seen in earlier years, and
Neil was just blown away by the improvement he noticed in Steve's
drumming. As far as the rest of the squad, at that point in time, who
else among that group was a Gruber 'disciple'? I know Weckl hadn't
really studied with FG yet.
>Neil used to play with power and
>conviction.Tfe was weak and by far next to Roll The Bones his worst
>performance.
Neil admitted that he has not yet achieved the power/conviction that
he used to have. He has not done much traditional grip playing until
the last couple of years, and it will simply take time. It was
obvious at the TFE shows I saw that Neil was just not as powerful/loud
as he usually is. It wasn't a PA thing, either. You're a drummer -
I'm sure you can tell the difference. So, power-wise I'l agree with
you. BUT - if Neil continues to play - I believe that we will likely
see that aspect return to his playing in spades. The bonus (that had
little chance of happening without Gruber) will be the increased
fluidity, dare I say.........a groove should begin to appear. Note:
this may scare you, since TFE did show the beginnings of a groove, and
it's not on your list.
>I am a drummer of 16 yrs and do have a solid opinion on
>this.You want real drumming that took effort and solid playing listen to
>these albums:
>
>Power Windows
>Signals
>Moving Pictures
>Permanent Waves
>Hemispheres
>Grace Under Pressure
>Presto
>Counterparts
>Hold Your Fire
>Exit Stage Left
The albums you point to as examples of Neil's best playing, ARE.
Again, I won't argue that point. Though I would definitely expect any
future releases to be AT LEAST as 'good' (whatever that means) as the
ones you mentioned. Neil simply does not have the kind of foundation
that Smith & Weckl had when they started with FG. Both of these guys
were absolute monsters before they ever HEARD of Freddie Gruber. Neil
is great, blah, blah, blah BUT for sheer chops/control/finesse he
can't touch guys like Smith, Weckl, Colaiuta, et al. That, combined
with the fact that Neil doesn't put in nearly the hours behind the
drums, in different situations & styles, as these other guys just
means that it's gonna take more time.
If you'd care to hear an accelerated version of what Gruber's
teachings can add to an already accomplished player, then check
Weckl's new CD 'Rhythm of the Soul.' I've heard pieces of the new
Vital Information CD that show an improvement in Smith's playing as
well.
>Neil didnt need a jazz guy to come in and tell him how to play when he
>already knew.
AAARGH! Gruber, the teacher, is NOT a jazz guy. Neither is Smith or
Weckl. How long have you been playing? It's a shame to typecast
players that you aren't familiar with. Go to Blockbuster, and give
either of those CDs a free listen, then come back and tell me it's all
jazz. Yes, either of them can shred in a jazz setting. However,
Smith did do that whole Journey thing, then there's Tony McAlpine from
the late 80s. Weckl has played in nearly as many situations as Smith
(Madonna, Dave Matthews, Robert Plant & Paul Simon come to mind.)
They're just incredible drummers/musicians who like the spontaneous
interaction/composition that is by definition, present in most forms
of jazz.
>Neil was just bored,inventing himself was just an excuse as
>far as i am concerned.
>
>Doulgas Maher
Well, he's been playing longer than either of us & HE figured it was
time to improve his playing, isn't that enough? Do you remember the
last couple of MD cover story interviews NP did? In 4/84 he said he
doesn't practice, he plays. Fairly cocky (though probably deservedly
so.) Then in '89 or '90 (Presto) he said that he didn't feel he had
much of anything left to work on as far as drumming went. He said
he'd reached the 'point of diminishing returns' in his drumming, and
that since he felt he could play just about anything he wanted to,
there wasn't much reason for him to engage in any serious practice
rituals anymore. When I read that, I was a little disheartened. It
seemed like he thought he was as good as he was gonna get. I know
these are phases we all may go through, but I guess I had Neil up on a
pedestal back then.
Well, here comes 1996 - and he finally seems to have rekindled the
fire, and the desire (No Bananarama reference intended) that he once
had about drumming. While I obviously do not have a personal stake in
anything this man does, he was and continues to be an inspiration for
the way I approach music & drumming. The fact that, at this stage of
his career, he's willing to make such a change in his playing
mechanics in order to improve just demonstrates (to me) why he's been
so influential for so long.
C'mon Doug, give the guy a chance. Most of all, open your mind to
some of the other incredible drummers out there. Like Neil said,
'copy 'em all!'
An unrelated side note: I really do appreciate the little tidbits of
info you throw out from time to time. By the time I get around to
thanking you though, it seems some idiot's already turned the thread
into a flame war. Don't worry, though. The kids'll be back in school
soon <bfg>
Take care, and I hope you read my post in the spirit with which it was
intended. (NOT as one long flame!) Maybe a few little ones, though.
Robert Campbell
---
Proud user of ddrum, Yamaha, Zildjian, & Vic Firth
You can also respond to:
d d r u m m e r @ p o b o x .c o m
(remove all spaces)
douglas maher
>
> I don't care if you have been playing drums for 50 years, this topic is
> purely subjective. Neil felt he needed to re-think his approach to
> drumming, and CHOSE Fred Gruber as his guide. What matters, is that HE grew
> from the experience. To say Freg Gruber has no business in Rock is
> presumptious and way too obnoxious. If your opinion should be held in such
> high esteem, why don't you elaborate as to exactly why and how his (Peart)
> playing hasn't been improved by this experience.
>
> someone who can't even write at a grade-four level, very seriously. Two
> spaces after the period Mr. Maher.
>
>
> douglas maher wrote in message <35C807...@bellsouth.net>...
> >Steve Grigsby wrote:
> >>
> >> Absolutely...Neil is much more relaxed. He knew he needed some
> criticism,
> >> and he got it. He's much better as a result.
> >>
> >> Steve
> >>
> >> St2112 wrote in message
> <199808050313...@ladder01.news.aol.com>...
> >> >romer...@aol.com (Romerodead) wrote:
> >> >>Fuckin' admit it.
> >> >
> >> > You're insane.. Look at how much more graceful Neil's playing became
> >> after
> >> >taking advice from Gruber..
> >> >
> >> >
> >
> >
> >
> >drummer like Neil.Neil just got bored and listened to Steve Smith and
> >the rest of the Burning For Buddy squad.Neil used to play with power and
> >conviction.Tfe was weak and by far next to Roll The Bones his worst
> >this.You want real drumming that took effort and solid playing listen to
> >these albums:
> >
> >Power Windows
> >Signals
> >Moving Pictures
> >Permanent Waves
> >Hemispheres
> >Grace Under Pressure
> >Presto
> >Counterparts
> >Hold Your Fire
> >Exit Stage Left
> >
> >
> >far as i am concerned.
> >
> >Doulgas Maher
Once again Phil you need to resort to childish insults to prove your
lack of knowledge of the topic.Otherwise Fuck Off.If you want proof on
anything it doesnt take a REAL drummer to know that Neil's playing on
TFE and RTB is nothing to write home about at all.I am comparing it to
all of his other works in the eighties that were amazing and a challenge
to myself as a drummer as well as inspirational.Sorry but IMHO Neil
hasnt inspired me drum wise in years.Lyrically i can tell you yes he has
and always will.Fred to me is a great performer for what he does.But you
can stand in a room of REAL drummers and they will tell you that Peart
has waned in playing and doesnt really show the enthusiasim like he used
to.
Rush is amazing.Neil is amazing.I would never take that away from
them.They rule.He rules.I love them like family{maybe because most of
mine sucks},but Neil hit his zenith with drums on Power Windows.
Douglas Maher----by the way i listen to:
Marvin Smitty Smith
Mike Portnoy
Tim Alexander
Steve Gadd
Carter Beauford
For influence also.Tell me is Neil doing anything on TFE that sounds
like that?
douglas maher
Now if only people could respond like this.There wasnt an insult in
it.My theroy is that Steve Smith and Weckl arent rock drummers.Neil is.
I know Neil knows whats up.I just think IMHO that his ability is always
there,but he just got lazy and decided ok i'll just sit back and play
the same ole same ole.Man i miss when Neil used to give me chills.
Douglas Maher
douglas maher
>
> If you honestly think Neil's playing has gotten better, you wouldn't last
> behind a kit like Neil's old configuration. That's a REAL set. He has all the
> heads instead of the dull and soft coated heads that Neil went to to be like
> these jazz geezers. Neil has lazy man's disease. he's a SLOUCH. There goes the
> same old ride patterns. There goes the thud on the 16" floor tom. There goes
> the 18" mimicing a true gong bass drum. There goes the 12" tom which the 10"
> tom sounds indistinguishable from. How many times does he do the same fills in
> the Work in Progress video? The fill he does in LIMBO. There's not alot you can
> do with the set. His abilities are there, sure. He can play, sure. But GET
> REAL. Todays's minimalist music scene has him taking drums away like a
> hypocrite, saying he doesn't need all of them, just to fit in.
> Work in Progress video is a bunch of talk and hardly any playing. Anyone who
> has seen the 1986 Neil clinic (I know some fans here werent born yet) would say
> Neil had it going on then and was at the peak of his playing. The old Neil will
> inspire future drummers as always, not the 90s "take it easy on me now.." Neil.
>
> Since when are fills not tasteful? He always served the groove and added
> fills. He thinks you cant do both anymore.
> The old Tama kit seperates the men from the boys. Too bad the clinic video is
> so rare..there would be a unanimous agreement. Looks like there's still people
> in denial.
Amen brother!!!!!!
Douglas Maher
Thom Hickey
Sghorwitz wrote:
Well stated, Prof, but Dog Years didn't need saving from either the outstandingdrum work or guitar work.
Cheers,
Thom
only a surfer knows the feeling
>
> Now if only people could respond like this.There wasnt an insult in
> it.My theroy is that Steve Smith and Weckl arent rock drummers.Neil is.
> I know Neil knows whats up.I just think IMHO that his ability is always
> there,but he just got lazy and decided ok i'll just sit back and play
> the same ole same ole.Man i miss when Neil used to give me chills.
Are you horny for this guy? I thought after a few years of being into RUSH
drummers moved on and out of the "Neil Peart" phase....RUSH is my favorite band
but Neil is by far not the greatest thing since sliced bread.....so please quit
acting like you'd ram this guy if you had the chance.
Steve Grigsby
Folks that have agreed with Romerodead seem to mention two things lacking in
Neil's style.
1. lack of power
2. lack of conviction
Maybe that was exactly what he was looking for. Afterall, some of the
hardest licks to hit are those pp's. A monkey could sit behind a set and
play at one level of intensity. I had to sell my set when I was 17 (31
now), but I kept playing snare in my local drum line through College.
Through the years I have worked on a snare solo called "Tornado". In it,
lies measures of 32nd paradiddles from pp>>>>fff (within one measure's time)
at 132bpm, 4/4 time with accents throughout! Give that a try next time your
behind your mammoth set.
Steve
Adam Cohen
Romerodead wrote:
> If you honestly think Neil's playing has gotten better, you wouldn't last
> behind a kit like Neil's old configuration.
What does this mean? Just because you have a plethora of timbres to choose from
doesn't mean you need to simultaneously assault them all at once to be a quality
musician. As a matter of fact, if you DO try to assault all of them at once,
you're probably more guilty of noise pollution than of creating great, emotive
music.
> That's a REAL set. He has all the
> pieces and MORE. That means more playing. More sounds. Plus they had plastic
> heads instead of the dull and soft coated heads that Neil went to to be like
> these jazz geezers.
More playing is an end unto itself. Tasteful playing is a means to and end, that
end being the successful communication of idea and emotion through song. If I
wanted a display of athleticism, I'd watch ESPN, not listen to a CD.
> Neil has lazy man's disease. he's a SLOUCH. There goes the
> same old ride patterns. There goes the thud on the 16" floor tom. There goes
> the 18" mimicing a true gong bass drum. There goes the 12" tom which the 10"
> tom sounds indistinguishable from. How many times does he do the same fills in
> the Work in Progress video? The fill he does in LIMBO.
That's absurd. Neil is alot of things, but lazy certainly isn't one of them. He
had the humility to realize that, even though he is admired by a good many of his
peers, he had room to improve, and he put the energy and effort into doing so. How
is that lazy? As far as your perception of his newly acquired praxes of recycling
parts, what about the 1-and-a-2-and-3-and-a-4-e-and cymbal pattern that's cropped
up for 2 decades in his playing before TFE?!? If that isn't recycling, I don't
know what is. As far as your comment about what can and can't be done with Neil's
"paired down" set, go watch some tape of Tony Williams, Elvin Jones, Art Blakey,
Omar Hakim, John Bonham, etc, and try to comprehend how these guys do what they
do with the (much smaller) kits that they use(d).
> Modern Drummer has alwys tried to make Neil look good no matter what so I could
> care less what they say...especially since Neil is on the advisory board. The
> Work in Progress video is a bunch of talk and hardly any playing. Anyone who
> has seen the 1986 Neil clinic (I know some fans here werent born yet) would say
> Neil had it going on then and was at the peak of his playing. The old Neil will
> inspire future drummers as always, not the 90s "take it easy on me now.." Neil.
Yes, the overplaying Neil will inspire future beginning drummers, who will then
mature as players and come to realize that the athletic histrionics that Neil
employed in the past are not always necessary and in some cases actually hurt the
music rather than help it. Further, while Neil is technically proficient, he is
(and was) hardly the be-all-end-all technician that you seem to think he was. If
you want chops, check out some of the people I mentioned above, along with Billy
Cobham, Simon Phillips, Dave Weckl, Steve Gadd, and Vinnie Colauita, for starters;
they are all more technically adept than Neil, and less simplistic in constructing
technically demanding drum parts than the "old Neil" you miss so much . You're
obviously familiar with MD. Why don't you go read last month's cover story on
Carter Beauford. He's a fairly chops oriented player that has figured out what it
means to serve the song, rather than one's own ego by overplaying, and discussed
it intelligently in that article.
> Since when are fills not tasteful? He always served the groove and added
> fills.
Really? The solo fill 3 minutes and 52 seconds into Natural Science - how did that
"serve the groove"? It was fun to listen to, and fun to play along with, but I
don't think even Neil would deny that it (and many other things he's played in the
past) was little more than a self indulgent somewhat demanding construct, perhaps
designed to keep him from being bored when he had to recreate his parts live for
months on end. This is not the only example of something that refutes your above
comment, but it's the one that immediately sprung to mind. I could come up with 25
more with a little thought. Neil grooves more effectively now than he ever has,
and if your ability to listen hasn't matured enough yet to appreciate that, then
go ahead and enjoy your old 8 tracks, but don't put the man down for elevating his
playing to a level that is apparently higher than what you can comprehend.
> He thinks you cant do both anymore.
> The old Tama kit seperates the men from the boys.
Yeah, that's what I want. A manly drummer playing a manly drum kit. Making quality
music is for wusses. Bring on the manly men, and send the musicians home to play
with their dolls...
Adam
K. Vern Faulkner
: i think neil is playing better now than ever.
: sure he has always been awsome!
Yes, but haven't you noticed that the lyrics have gone to hell in a
ceramic pot? Christ, *I* can write better stuff than Neil these days, and
there was a time I'd have propelled myself off a high bridge for even
thinking such blasphemy.
--
Radioactive cats have 18 half-lives.
Shirley Pitzer
Some of the things that you suggested that Fred changed were actually done
away with some 6 years before Neil started studying with him. The very
large drum kit went out with the end of the Presto tour if you remember
correctly. Neil dropped two of his high end tom toms and placed a floor
tom on the left hand side (another "jazzer" approach I might add.) He also
opted to drop the second bass drum and go with a smaller single bass drum
with a double bass pedal. As for losing all the percussion on the kit, who
can blame the guy? Now he can have anything in the world up there and all
he needs is a box of floppy disks! Now, onto the subject of his playing.
Look at Neil on the Exit Stage Left and A Show Of Hands videos. He looks
stiff in some places, almost uncomfortable when he's playing his fills. If
you look at his playing on the video for Half the World (what little of him
it shows) and the A Work In Progress video, he seems much more comfortable
and looks more content sitting behind the kit now. Some of the older Rush
material sounded better in my opinion on the T4E tour than it has in years!
If you're still sore about the size of the A Work In Progress kit, may I
remind you that Neil added another high end tom tom and the electronic kit
to his touring drum kit for T4E, actually when you look at the overall drum
kit set up, he has the exact number of tom toms he's had since Roll The
Bones, they're just placed in a different set up. Really, Freddie Gruber
did worlds of good for Neil, it's just too bad that we may never see the
fully developed product in action again.
Just my $.05
Bob Gonzalez
Romerodead <romer...@aol.com> wrote in article
<199808050227...@ladder01.news.aol.com>...
> Fuckin' admit it.
>
douglas maher
I try not to think of Neil as writing bad lyrics.I mean when TFE came
out i was horrifed by some of the songs I.E. The Color Of Right,Half The
World,Dog Years.But then came Resist,Driven,Time And Motion.Ahhhhhhhh
Neil!!!!!1 i still have faith!
Douglas Maher
ddrummer
wrote:
>Now if only people could respond like this.There wasnt an insult in
>it.My theroy is that Steve Smith and Weckl arent rock drummers.Neil is.
>I know Neil knows whats up.I just think IMHO that his ability is always
>there,but he just got lazy and decided ok i'll just sit back and play
>the same ole same ole.Man i miss when Neil used to give me chills.
>Douglas Maher
Doug,
I'm glad you took my post as I intended it. I see your point &
perhaps so did Neil. He is a rock drummer. The other two are just
plain drummers, capable of rock, as well as many other things. I
think that Neil may have wanted to improve his overall ability &
versatility. He has to know that he was like 'a fish out of water'
when doing BFB, and if he has as much pride as he appears to, then
that could be a glaring deficiency (in his eyes.) I still believe
that, in the long run, his drumming will be much improved for having
this renewed enthusiasm for the instrument. And THAT must be
attributed (at least in part) to Messrs. Smith & Gruber.
Take care,
EnemyWithn
them have gone the same route as Neil Peart.
I think growing complacent with ones own sound can become a troubling thing
for some and the only way to do something about it is to go and find someone
who can teach you, or even teach yourself, the finer points of a style thats
foriegn to you, but still interesting. Another point of view or approach, if
you will.
While I agree that maybe that might have not have been the best thing for
Neil's playing, who I always felt was the most mechanically sound drummer in
rock, I can understand where he's coming from in wanting to change.
It's not for us to judge whether he's better or worse off, if he is happy with
his playing, that;s all that matters to him.
He probably couldn't give a rat's ass about what Doug Maher or anybody else
thinks about it. He likes the change and for someone to come along and say that
he no longer "has it" is just plain unfair to Neil.
I have been a musician for 25 years, and anytime I feel that I might be losing
touch with my own muse, or feel as if I am in a rut, I will always find myself
a new source of inspiration.
I never know what I may find but it always adds to my musical knowledge and
that can never be a bad thing.
jim
sberrett
Sam 846
changes in style and equipment, as has Ged. Why can't Neil also try different
things? Neil's playing becoming a little more "laid back" is not as dramatic a
change in Rush as Alex switching to solid state gear in the 80's and back to
tube amps in the 90's.
Sam
mud-flap
Let me add William Purdy (I think that's his name - what do I know? I'm just
a bassist) of Steely Dan fame. That big man sure can accomplish a lot with a
few flicks of his wrists.
EnemyWithn
>Let me add William Purdy (I think that's his name - what do I know? I'm just
>a bassist) of Steely Dan fame. That big man sure can accomplish a lot with a
>few flicks of his wrists.
That would be Bernard Purdy.
A man who'stalent in drumming is only outdone by his talent for telling tall
tales (he claims he played all of Ringo's parts for the Beatles !).
jim
ddrummer
Bernard Purdie, it is - and yep, he's a badass. Unfortunately though,
he really hasn't done much since he sold his 32-piece Vistalite set in
the mid-80s - I think I remember reading that Fagen hired him sight
unseen, after reading a description of that beast-like drumset on some
bulletin board somewhere.
Later,
Robert Campbell
On Thu, 6 Aug 1998 14:06:34 -0400, "mud-flap"
<NOSPAM_g...@datacorp.com> wrote:
>Let me add William Purdy (I think that's his name - what do I know? I'm just
>a bassist) of Steely Dan fame. That big man sure can accomplish a lot with a
>few flicks of his wrists.
only a surfer knows the feeling
guy as well....get rid of his white sounding playing
Dave
majority of you are fairly young (early mid twenties)? Drumming is an
increbily physically demanding instrument, ESPECIALLY when you play the
shit Neil plays. I had a friend who said his drumming speed improved
200% when he took up martial arts and got leaner and meaner, and was
already an incredible 'Neil-like' drummer.
The point I'm making is as much as we hate to see it, Neil is getting
OLD. He's still in great shape, but you'll note he ain't writing that
2112 across the kit 'burn 2000 calories every five minutes' shit
anymore. It may be because he CAN'T play that tempo that long anymore,
but more importantly, he has to give himself a break when playing LIVE
as he honestly physically CANNOT play that way for 3 hours straight.
Sound about right? I'm NOT dissing Neil here either, aging sucks, trust
me. I can't hit the vocal highs I once could, listen to Stevie Nicks,
Rik Emmett, Steve Perry, even Geddy, when he was singing 2112 on the TFE
tour missed alot of his highs, but he TRIED.
I say again, getting old SUCKS. Your soul and your head/attitude is
still 18, but your gray and wrinkled on the outside, high school kids
look at you weird if you bop your head to a hard song, freak when they
see you at a Tool concert, etc. It's a drag.
Grundman
Dave
Matthew S. Mueller
my band couldn't play easy stuff for more than an hour before he got
tired!!
RTaylor680
material is not because he can't play it anymore. As he has said in
interviews, and most accomplished drummers would agree, he is writing and
playing in a way that better serves the music. Sometimes it's easier to play a
lot than it is a little. Neil's drumming continues to improve and be more
musical. His early work, while techically impressive, lacked the feeling and
emotion that his more recent material contains.
rob
Beast of Bourbon
>I say again, getting old SUCKS. Your soul and your head/attitude is
>still 18, but your gray and wrinkled on the outside, high school kids
>look at you weird if you bop your head to a hard song, freak when they
>see you at a Tool concert, etc.
The hell with 'em. Enjoy yourself. Maybe they'll learn something from you and
remember it when they're getting old themselves.
Digital Man
You old fartts get on my nerves.....flatulating, burping, balding,
ect....
Adam Cohen
Dave wrote:
> ...The point I'm making is as much as we hate to see it, Neil is getting
> OLD. He's still in great shape, but you'll note he ain't writing that
> 2112 across the kit 'burn 2000 calories every five minutes' shit
> anymore. It may be because he CAN'T play that tempo that long anymore,
> but more importantly, he has to give himself a break when playing LIVE
> as he honestly physically CANNOT play that way for 3 hours straight.
>
> Sound about right?
Actually, no. Buddy Rich played more demanding stuff than Neil does until he was
decades older than Neil, Tony Williams was a monster up until he died, and Billy
Cobham still burns. Even Phil Collins can apparently still throw himself around
the kit with the best of 'em when he wants to, and he's not only older than Neil,
but really hasn't challanged himself technically as a drummer for years until he
started touring with his big band.
I really think that the reason he's not writing the "2112 accross the kit" stuff
that you mentioned is that his musical sensibility has changed. I'd bet that it's
not that he can't play the stuff he used to anymore, but that he simply doesn't
need to.
Adam
only a surfer knows the feeling
still a very young drummer, and wet behind the ears.
Beast of Bourbon
>>The hell with 'em. Enjoy yourself. Maybe they'll learn something from you and
>>remember it when they're getting old themselves.
>
>You old fartts get on my nerves.....flatulating, burping, balding,
>ect....
Like I'm supposed to be insulted by a goob who can't even spell "fart"? Get a
dictionary, squirt.
Grandma Lee
>Like I'm supposed to be insulted by a goob who can't even spell "fart"?
Get a
>dictionary, squirt.
>
I don't think "fart" (or "fartt") is in the dictionary!
I suspect "etc" isn't in the dictionary either, being latin.
I wish I had a nickel for every time some doofus spelt et cetera as "ect"!
You'd think people who enjoy Rush, with the highly literate Neil, would take
the time to express themselves without obvious spelling mistakes.
Skilbarton
similar to what golfers wear to relieve tendonitis. I couldn't help but think that he
was playing in pain. If he was, it was a hell of an accomplishment.
Skil
Matthew S. Mueller wrote:
> Neil's still damn impressive, though. The guy who was playing drums for
> my band couldn't play easy stuff for more than an hour before he got
> tired!!
>
> Dave wrote:
> >
> > Without flaming ANYONE here on this newsgroup, I get the impression the
> > majority of you are fairly young (early mid twenties)? Drumming is an
> > increbily physically demanding instrument, ESPECIALLY when you play the
> > shit Neil plays. I had a friend who said his drumming speed improved
> > 200% when he took up martial arts and got leaner and meaner, and was
> > already an incredible 'Neil-like' drummer.
> >
> > The point I'm making is as much as we hate to see it, Neil is getting
> > OLD. He's still in great shape, but you'll note he ain't writing that
> > 2112 across the kit 'burn 2000 calories every five minutes' shit
> > anymore. It may be because he CAN'T play that tempo that long anymore,
> > but more importantly, he has to give himself a break when playing LIVE
> > as he honestly physically CANNOT play that way for 3 hours straight.
> >
> > Sound about right? I'm NOT dissing Neil here either, aging sucks, trust
> > me. I can't hit the vocal highs I once could, listen to Stevie Nicks,
> > Rik Emmett, Steve Perry, even Geddy, when he was singing 2112 on the TFE
> > tour missed alot of his highs, but he TRIED.
> >
> > I say again, getting old SUCKS. Your soul and your head/attitude is
> > still 18, but your gray and wrinkled on the outside, high school kids
> > look at you weird if you bop your head to a hard song, freak when they
Beast of Bourbon
>I don't think "fart" (or "fartt") is in the dictionary!
It's in both of the ones I have. I'm grateful there's no accompanying
illustrations in either.
>I suspect "etc" isn't in the dictionary either, being latin.
It is, as "et cetera." "Etc." is the abbreviation.
>I wish I had a nickel for every time some doofus spelt et cetera as "ect"!
You would enough nickels to melt down and create a small moon.
>You'd think people who enjoy Rush, with the highly literate Neil, would take
>the time to express themselves without obvious spelling mistakes.
Some people are just in a "rush" (BWAHAHA) to make fools of themselves.
Serge
Didn't hink so...Ok next question
Ever Heard of Buddy Rich?
How old was he when he died?
He was faster then Neil has/ or will ever be until the day he died.
Watch any Buddy Rich tape from his days w/ Count Basey to his days w/
Frank Sinatra he does one handed drum rolls. ONE HANDED.
He played entire shows completely upbeat for HOURS.
My comments follow
>Without flaming ANYONE here on this newsgroup, I get the impression the
>majority of you are fairly young (early mid twenties)? Drumming is an
>increbily physically demanding instrument, ESPECIALLY when you play the
>shit Neil plays. I had a friend who said his drumming speed improved
>200% when he took up martial arts and got leaner and meaner, and was
>already an incredible 'Neil-like' drummer.
>
>The point I'm making is as much as we hate to see it, Neil is getting
>OLD. He's still in great shape, but you'll note he ain't writing that
>2112 across the kit 'burn 2000 calories every five minutes' shit
>anymore. It may be because he CAN'T play that tempo that long anymore,
>but more importantly, he has to give himself a break when playing LIVE
>as he honestly physically CANNOT play that way for 3 hours straight.
>
This may seem logical to you but the 2112 fills you are refering to
are no longer in vogue. His style has changed drastically from the
70's. That was a time whan drummers had big kits to use them. Now
its the 90's Drummers are scaling down (i.e. Alex Van Halen, Neil,
Omar)
Its a part of the music , a style, listen to how the drum rythems
differ now from the 70's and 80's. IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE FACT
THAT YOU THINK HE CANNOT PHYSICALLY HANDLE IT. ABSOLUTELY NOTHING!!!
Neil does not sit down and figure out a drum part based upon the fact
that he might play the song after YYZ and get tired.
This is the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard...
Have a nice day,
Serge