M$FT to Copy Apple "Experience"
SnoopDoggy
mh
>
> Good luck. Vista sucks:
>
> http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/08/07/24/microsoft_sets_sights_on_providing_an_apple_like_experience.html
>
>
>
>
>
It's more than just the OS. The whole "end-to-end" experience happens
because Apple controls everything from concept to hardware to software
to support for almost everything that runs on the computer.
Let's say, oh, I don't know, your video chat doesn't work. Is it the
iChat software? The iSight camera? In either case, Apple's gonna fix it.
If they can't do it over the phone, you can take to an Apple Store or
send it in.
Hard for MS to do anything like that in their world of disparate
hardware and software vendors ...
(iTunes, iPods and iPhones add even more layers ...)
Some Guy
The downside is that you have a much more limited choice of equipment,
and usually at a higher price. My knowledge of Apple is ancient (I had
an Apple ][ way back in the day), but I wasn't aware you could just slap
any peripheral card or device in and have it just work unless it was an
Apple-approved & supported item.
SnoopDoggy
>
> The downside is that you have a much more limited choice of equipment,
> and usually at a higher price. My knowledge of Apple is ancient (I had
> an Apple ][ way back in the day), but I wasn't aware you could just
> slap any peripheral card or device in and have it just work unless it
> was an Apple-approved & supported item.
That's pretty much true - but computers are so fast now that you really
don't need to slap in upgrades all the time unless you are a very
serious gamer. For all the stuff that old folks do (spreadsheets, word
processing, MAME, etc.), the Mac is far superior because it almost
never crashes (I've never had a OS-level crash ever with 10.5 - and
only a few rare ap crashes), has seemless interoperability among the
media aps (iMovie, iTunes, etc.), and seemless integration for mail,
calendars, contacts between your desktop, laptop, and iPhone
(MobileMe). I don't think that it's possible for M$FT to copy what
Apple has done this time around. Plus, Apple is slowly gaining control
of your data (music, movies, personal photos, contacts, calendars,
etc.). This will make it next to impossible to migrate back to PC in
the event that it is a better "experience" someday (not likely). And,
if you really want to, you can also run Vista better on a Mac than a PC
since the drivers are so stable with proven interoperability.
Lastly, has anyone tried to "repair" an installation of XP? What a
flippin' joke! You need to manually repair the Registry for it to allow
driver patches after the "repair" process. What a PoS...
catpandaddy
"SnoopDoggy" <sn...@compton.com> wrote in message
news:2008072507540516807-snoop@comptoncom...
>
> processing, MAME, etc.), the Mac is far superior because it almost never
> crashes (I've never had a OS-level crash ever with 10.5 - and only a few
> rare ap crashes), has seemless interoperability among the
Hmmmmm....
> media aps (iMovie, iTunes, etc.), and seemless integration for mail,
Something just doesn't "seam" write about the spelling they're, butt I can't
kwite place it.
--
(And why do they make a book called "Macintosh for Dummies" if Macs are so
easy to use?)
mh
It's still a computer, and, yes, there are still people out there who
aren't computer savvy. Or there may be people who have used PCs for
years who are switching over to Mac and want a reference for learning
how to do things the Mac way.
Not everyone's as smart as you, my feline friend.
mh
True enough, but as Snoop points out, most folks aren't going to need
those extras unless they're serious gamers ... Apple markets to the
broader consumer market for the most part.
Mike Smith
>
> Lastly, has anyone tried to "repair" an installation of XP?
Uh, no - I've never had to.
--
Mike Smith
Max C. Webster III
> SnoopDoggy wrote:
>
>> Lastly, has anyone tried to "repair" an installation of XP?
>
> Uh, no - I've never had to.
XP is a rock-solid workhorse.
I'm forced to use Vista for work, and I just want to pull my hair out
sometimes.
I'm beginning to think Windows releases are like Star Trek movies; every other
one is good.
- Max -
=======
Until you get to that last one - ugh.
As Americans we must always remember that we all
have a common enemy, an enemy that is dangerous,
powerful, and relentless. I refer, of course,
to the federal government. - Dave Barry
norborder
> SnoopDoggy wrote:
>>
>> Lastly, has anyone tried to "repair" an installation of XP?
>
> Uh, no - I've never had to.
Of course not. How un-aristocratic it would be to use the OS of the unwashed
masses. Quite.
--
I am looking forward to an orderly election tomorrow, which will eliminate
the need for a violent bloodbath.
SnoopDoggy
> XP is a rock-solid workhorse.
Yeah, and here is the picture to prove it:
http://staywithdonbosco.files.wordpress.com/2008/04/donkey-2.jpg
XP is complete pile of steaming dung - but definitely better than
Vista. At least you can do something constructive with manure.
Seriously, XP is way more compatible with older applications and
drivers than Vista. It still uses a fucked-up registry database that
self-destructs every year or so. Plus, if you don't have antispyware
and antivirus programs constantly updated, you're fucked. The XP repair
doesn't work and it hasn't for literally years. The security blocks and
networking on Vista is a complete joke. Plus, good luck finding the
legacy driver for your old stuff. At the end of the day, they both suck.
OS-X is a rock-solid workhorse. It BLOWs XP or Vista out of the water.
You need to force yourself to migrate to Mac & then you'll never think
twice about migrating back to M$FT.
Max C. Webster III
>> XP is a rock-solid workhorse.
>
> Yeah, and here is the picture to prove it:
>
> http://staywithdonbosco.files.wordpress.com/2008/04/donkey-2.jpg
>
> XP is complete pile of steaming dung . . .
. . . and I stopped reading at this point.
- Max -
=======
Rob nee Petard
>> XP is a rock-solid workhorse.
>
> Yeah, and here is the picture to prove it:
>
> http://staywithdonbosco.files.wordpress.com/2008/04/donkey-2.jpg
>
> XP is complete pile of steaming dung - but definitely better than
> Vista. At least you can do something constructive with manure.
Y'know, Snoop, I've got ten or more Macs in my house right now... five or so
of which are fully working and being put to various uses (the others are for
spare parts, etc.). My full-time job is Mac service and has been for well
over a decade. It would be difficult to argue that I'm not Mac-friendly, if
not Mac-biased. I've told you this before, but, dude, you seriously need to
lay off the Mac wingnut Kool-Aid. Reading your posts on this subject almost
makes me wish I was using some other OS, just to avoid the guilt by
association.
Have. A cup. Of simmer. Already.
Rob (!Petard) has a couple Macs which can dual boot Mac/XP, and one which
runs Ubuntu in virtualization. Rarely use either, but they're there.
Don Bruder
Rob nee Petard <steV...@cableone.net> wrote:
> SnoopDoggy wrote:
>
> >> XP is a rock-solid workhorse.
> >
> > Yeah, and here is the picture to prove it:
> >
> > http://staywithdonbosco.files.wordpress.com/2008/04/donkey-2.jpg
> >
> > XP is complete pile of steaming dung - but definitely better than
> > Vista. At least you can do something constructive with manure.
>
> Y'know, Snoop, I've got ten or more Macs in my house right now... five or so
> of which are fully working and being put to various uses (the others are for
> spare parts, etc.). My full-time job is Mac service and has been for well
> over a decade. It would be difficult to argue that I'm not Mac-friendly, if
> not Mac-biased. I've told you this before, but, dude, you seriously need to
> lay off the Mac wingnut Kool-Aid. Reading your posts on this subject almost
> makes me wish I was using some other OS, just to avoid the guilt by
> association.
As a long-time Apple loyalist (Can you say "Apple //e"?) and Mac user
who wouldn't own a Windows box longer than it takes to find somebody
fool enough to buy it from me, THANK YOU, Rob!
Snoop's Kool-aid is mixed *WAY* too strong for my liking.
--
Don Bruder - dak...@sonic.net - If your "From:" address isn't on my whitelist,
or the subject of the message doesn't contain the exact text "PopperAndShadow"
somewhere, any message sent to this address will go in the garbage without my
ever knowing it arrived. Sorry... <http://www.sonic.net/~dakidd> for more info
SnoopDoggy
>>>
>>> XP is complete pile of steaming dung - but definitely better than
>>> Vista. At least you can do something constructive with manure.
>>
>> Y'know, Snoop, I've got ten or more Macs in my house right now... five or so
>> of which are fully working and being put to various uses (the others are for
>> spare parts, etc.). My full-time job is Mac service and has been for well
>> over a decade. It would be difficult to argue that I'm not Mac-friendly, if
>> not Mac-biased. I've told you this before, but, dude, you seriously need to
>> lay off the Mac wingnut Kool-Aid. Reading your posts on this subject almost
>> makes me wish I was using some other OS, just to avoid the guilt by
>> association.
>
Well, I'm coming off another couple of hours of frustration with XP. My
XP PC starting running really, really slow with the blue screen of
death / serious error dialogs. Checked RAM and XP rebooted. Must be
faulty RAM. Installed new RAM. Blue screen of death again. Reinstalled
fresh XP / ran updates / installed aps. Works fine until blue screen of
death. What changed? Roll back to original configuration using "Repair"
- XP now won't update without making changes to the Registry (Read
Stanley's fix):
http://forums.techarena.in/windows-update/781245.htm
After install and update of Norton AV and SP3, XP crashes again! Oh,
it's a faulty install of Norton AV. Uninstall Norton AV. System works
again - but now I'm without AV. Probably a memory leak that caused it
to look like a RAM failure.
Why M$FT offers a "repair" option that requires even more high level
repair is beyond me.
You would know more than anyone that this shit simply doesn't happen on
the Mac. I can reinstall the OS at any time - and I have no reason to
since my has never failed (spyware, Registry problems, viruses, etc.)
like virtually every PC I've encountered. Plus, I don't need
antispyware and antivirus (that one is up for debate, but I don't run
AV on my Mac). M$FT keeps the techs in business because 99% of the
population has no clue as to how to solve issues like this.
Snoop (Admitted Mac Fanboi)
MacRushFan
<sn...@compton.com> wrote:
I just got back from a Lean Workshop in Dallas this week. While we are
PC company now, one of the previous IT leaders in the workshop had his
own Macbook Air and iPhone 3G. Most people were in awe of the
capabilities of both products. A lot of people say the iPhone 3G is
not quite Enterprise ready. He was pushing exchange email to the phone
and opening Word, Powerpoint and Excel files with ease. With a few
more enhancements, I can see the demise of the laptop as we know it.
A high end iMac today is closer spec wise to a pro level machine than
consumer. The money I would save without a laptop, I could eventually
buy the whole family iphone 3Gs...
Granted, its not a perfect solution today, but we are not far off...
The Professor
snoop@comptoncom:
> You would know more than anyone that this shit simply doesn't happen
on
> the Mac. I can reinstall the OS at any time - and I have no reason to
> since my has never failed (spyware, Registry problems, viruses, etc.)
> like virtually every PC I've encountered. Plus, I don't need
> antispyware and antivirus (that one is up for debate, but I don't run
> AV on my Mac). M$FT keeps the techs in business because 99% of the
> population has no clue as to how to solve issues like this.
>
> Snoop (Admitted Mac Fanboi)
>
Prof has been using PCs (and multiple ones at that) since his first 8088
in the late 1980s (I did have an original 128K Mac in 1984/85 however!).
With a variety of desktops and laptops, the number of times I have had
to take a machine in for service because of a problem of *any* sort is
exactly twice.
Once was a bad RAM module, easily fixed once the tech diagnosed it. The
other was a virus that somehow nailed my university issued laptop last
summer.
I have had other minor issues, but all were resolved without having to
lose use of the machine (e.g. I once had to flash new Bios when I
changed a Dell over to XP many years ago).
I agree with Max's take on XP: I found it to be MUCH more stable than
its predecessors. BSODs are rare - in fact outside of the RAM failure
incident, I can probably count them on one hand. I have Vista on my new
laptop and have not had a single problem with it in two months of
moderate use.
I'm not a Gates fanboi - I know Windows' limitations etc., but I also
believe that for the *vast* majority of everyday users, Microsoft's OS
do the job people need at lower cost than Macs IF, and it's a big IF,
you take care of your machine (AV and spyware among other things). Yes,
Macs don't have those worries, but they are also out of the price range
of most Americans.
Microsoft is, in that sense, a lot like Wal-Mart: the product quality
is more than good enough given that their prices make the product
available to many who couldn't afford it otherwise.
The Professor (off of soapbox now)
--
I am the center of my own cosmology.
SnoopDoggy
>>
> I just got back from a Lean Workshop in Dallas this week. While we are
> PC company now, one of the previous IT leaders in the workshop had his
> own Macbook Air and iPhone 3G. Most people were in awe of the
> capabilities of both products. A lot of people say the iPhone 3G is
> not quite Enterprise ready. He was pushing exchange email to the phone
> and opening Word, Powerpoint and Excel files with ease. With a few
> more enhancements, I can see the demise of the laptop as we know it.
>
> A high end iMac today is closer spec wise to a pro level machine than
> consumer. The money I would save without a laptop, I could eventually
> buy the whole family iphone 3Gs...
>
> Granted, its not a perfect solution today, but we are not far off...
Wait for the MacBook Touch with rumored 3G, 10" screen, etc. Apple says
that they expect a 5% decrease in gross margins next quarter due to a
new product.
SnoopDoggy
>
> I'm not a Gates fanboi - I know Windows' limitations etc., but I also
> believe that for the *vast* majority of everyday users, Microsoft's OS
> do the job people need at lower cost than Macs IF, and it's a big IF,
> you take care of your machine (AV and spyware among other things). Yes,
> Macs don't have those worries, but they are also out of the price range
> of most Americans.
>
> Microsoft is, in that sense, a lot like Wal-Mart: the product quality
> is more than good enough given that their prices make the product
> available to many who couldn't afford it otherwise.
>
>
I still think that the "cost" of owning a PC that runs XP or Vista ends
up being higher than a Mac due to the security issues and problems with
the OS and 3rd party drivers. Also, the resale value of Macs are much
higher. But, granted, the entry cost is higher & drives away a lot of
potential buyers.
Rob nee Petard
> You would know more than anyone that this shit simply doesn't happen on
> the Mac.
I would only say that Macs have fewer such incidents and that they are often
at least somewhat more easily solved. (My PC tech counterparts seem to have
to resort to reinstalling the OS significantly more often than I do.)
Nonetheless, the types of things you've had your XP do recently are
comparable to problems I most certainly have seen on Macs with some
regularity. A damaged NetInfo database is roughly comparable to a damaged
registry in terms of difficulty fixing... and I've had that happen a half
dozen times or so. The newest Mac OS no longer uses NetInfo, but it had a
comparable issue of its own, where the computer's sole Admin user would be
reduced to a Standard user, leaving no account able to load software, make
system changes, etc. Apple has fixed it (it seems), but I saw it several
times before it was fixed.
If your personal experiences were truly representative of everyone's, then
I'd be like the Maytag repairman and would be forced to start working on PCs
just to make a living.
Rob (!Petard)
Dale Hicks
says...
>
> You would know more than anyone that this shit simply doesn't happen on
> the Mac. I can reinstall the OS at any time - and I have no reason to
> since my has never failed (spyware, Registry problems, viruses, etc.)
> like virtually every PC I've encountered. Plus, I don't need
> antispyware and antivirus (that one is up for debate, but I don't run
> AV on my Mac).
What I don't get is why virus writers don't take all of this "no
viruses exist for Macs" trumpeting as a point of honor and work
really hard to be known as _the_ guy that royally screws up the Apple
hardware.
Wouldn't that make you a god among the dimwit assholes that waste
their time trying to hurt people?
--
Cranial Crusader dgh 1138 at bell south point net
SnoopDoggy
> I would only say that Macs have fewer such incidents and that they are often
> at least somewhat more easily solved. (My PC tech counterparts seem to have
> to resort to reinstalling the OS significantly more often than I do.)
Yep. And, going to Prof's statement about cost, these issues in terms
of lost time and productivity make the Mac a better investment, IMO.
Plus, PC owners should add the cost of AV and ASpam licenses to their
cost calculations (unless they are the same types that downloaded VT
for free).
>
> Nonetheless, the types of things you've had your XP do recently are
> comparable to problems I most certainly have seen on Macs with some
> regularity. A damaged NetInfo database is roughly comparable to a damaged
> registry in terms of difficulty fixing... and I've had that happen a half
> dozen times or so. The newest Mac OS no longer uses NetInfo, but it had a
> comparable issue of its own, where the computer's sole Admin user would be
> reduced to a Standard user, leaving no account able to load software, make
> system changes, etc. Apple has fixed it (it seems), but I saw it several
> times before it was fixed.
Yeah, but they fixed it. The XP "repair" bug is over 2-years old &
known to M$FT. A friend had me look at his daughter's laptop today. It
said that the wireless network was not connected - but it was. It's
stupid stuff like that where I turn into the ultimate Mac fanboi.
>
> If your personal experiences were truly representative of everyone's, then
> I'd be like the Maytag repairman and would be forced to start working on PCs
> just to make a living.
>
> Rob (!Petard)
Well, as you know, the newbies have problems with networking,
migrations from the PC, hooking up printers / sharing, managing media
files, upgrading their hard drives, etc. So, you'll have business for a
long, long time.
The Professor
snoop@comptoncom:
> Plus, PC owners should add the cost of AV and ASpam licenses to their
> cost calculations (unless they are the same types that downloaded VT
> for free).
Or perhaps because our places of work are PC shops, we get free access
at home to the AV software available at work.
Or perhaps because we use PCs, there's lots of freeware out there for
spyware.
The Professor (pays nothing for either)
--
"Romantic art is the fuel and the sparkplug of a man's soul. Its task is
to set a soul on fire and never let it go out. The task of providing
that fire with a motor and a direction belongs to philosophy." - Ayn
Rand
MacRushFan
<sn...@compton.com> wrote:
Yep Total Cost of Ownership is cheaper.
You only cry once when you buy the best ;)
John Nichel
You seem to think that the black hats and script kiddies do it for fun.
It's all about the duckies my good man, and there just ain't no money
in the Mac.
John Nichel
> Yep Total Cost of Ownership is cheaper.
>
> You only cry once when you buy the best ;)
Keep telling yourself that.
--
Has seen almost $10k of his 2008 budget go to Mac OS updates and third
party Mac software that is included, or freely available for the PC.
And lets not even get into the manhours spent on having Macs in a mixed
OS office system. The Linux and Windows machines just seem to work,
whereas the Macs have to be dragged kicking and screaming.
Dale Hicks
jnichel@no_spamby-tor.com says...
Viruses are done for money?
John Nichel
> In article <488bd17d$0$2532$c3e...@news.astraweb.com>,
> jnichel@no_spamby-tor.com says...
>> Dale Hicks wrote:
>>> In article <2008072607182016807-snoop@comptoncom>, sn...@compton.com
>>> says...
>>>> You would know more than anyone that this shit simply doesn't happen on
>>>> the Mac. I can reinstall the OS at any time - and I have no reason to
>>>> since my has never failed (spyware, Registry problems, viruses, etc.)
>>>> like virtually every PC I've encountered. Plus, I don't need
>>>> antispyware and antivirus (that one is up for debate, but I don't run
>>>> AV on my Mac).
>>> What I don't get is why virus writers don't take all of this "no
>>> viruses exist for Macs" trumpeting as a point of honor and work
>>> really hard to be known as _the_ guy that royally screws up the Apple
>>> hardware.
>>>
>>> Wouldn't that make you a god among the dimwit assholes that waste
>>> their time trying to hurt people?
>>>
>> You seem to think that the black hats and script kiddies do it for fun.
>> It's all about the duckies my good man, and there just ain't no money
>> in the Mac.
>
> Viruses are done for money?
>
Botnets don't create themselves.
--
Not to mention back doors to launch attacks from.
SnoopDoggy
>
>> Plus, PC owners should add the cost of AV and ASpam licenses to their
>> cost calculations (unless they are the same types that downloaded VT
>> for free).
>
> Or perhaps because our places of work are PC shops, we get free access
> at home to the AV software available at work.
>
> Or perhaps because we use PCs, there's lots of freeware out there for
> spyware.
As the econ Prof, you'd know better than anyone that _someone_ is
paying for your AV and Aspam solutions - so, you have to figure that
into the marginal cost of ownership. Or, you are "stealing" by using
unlicensed software....
Giovanni
Why would anyone be paying for freeware? You could argue that the
writers of it pay with the time they invest in it but it is their own
choice to release their work/hobby projects as freeware.
MacRushFan
<jnichel@no_spamby-tor.com> wrote:
> MacRushFan wrote:
> > Yep Total Cost of Ownership is cheaper.
> >
> > You only cry once when you buy the best ;)
>
> Keep telling yourself that.
>
Proof is in the pudding, I am typing this on a Powerbook G4 1.25 from
2003 running 10.5.4. It is my newest computer ;) I have replaced the
Hard Drive and added a stick of memory...
Anyone running Vista on any laptops that were made in 2003 with
original CPU?
The Professor
snoop@comptoncom:
> As the econ Prof, you'd know better than anyone that _someone_ is
> paying for your AV and Aspam solutions - so, you have to figure that
> into the marginal cost of ownership.
No *I* don't. If *I* don't pay the cost, *I* do not have to figure it into
my marginal cost of ownership. That was my whole point. You said it
should be counted as money *I* have to spend buying a PC. Guess what. It
doesn't. Others happily spend it for me, reducing *my* cost.
> Or, you are "stealing" by using unlicensed software....
Nice try, but no. Licenses all around.
The Professor (ah, a quiet Sunday at home for a change)
That Chilean Guy
_someone_ is. IIRC, that doesn't mean _I_ have to factor it into _my_
TCO.
( Avira Antivir Personal: total cost to me = US$0. Infections to me =
0 )
> Or, you are "stealing" by using
> unlicensed software....
If you are going to get all technical, you shouldn't be using the term
"stealing", not even quotey-unquotey.
That Chilean Guy
> In article <488bd17d$0$2532$c3e8...@news.astraweb.com>,
Back in the day when it just wiped your hard drive or displayed some
fun pics, it was for kicks. These days, all malware writing is all
about taking control of your computer and A) getting access to your
banking/financial/personal info B) turning your computer in another
soldier in a botnet (for spamming and/or DDoS blackmail purposes) or
C) all of the above.
SnoopDoggy
>
> No *I* don't. If *I* don't pay the cost, *I* do not have to figure it into
> my marginal cost of ownership. That was my whole point. You said it
> should be counted as money *I* have to spend buying a PC. Guess what. It
> doesn't. Others happily spend it for me, reducing *my* cost.
"They", I assume, are either students, taxpayers, or supporters of the
University. It would be, economically, in their interest (in thus
yours) to use the most cost effective solution which includes the
marginal "cost" of lost productivity. Also, I think that people need to
add the cost of security software to their cost analysis of PC over
Mac. So many times, the IT people push PC shovelware on the
unsuspecting masses for future job security.
catpandaddy
"MacRushFan" <m...@mac.com> wrote in message
news:270720080925364549%m...@mac.com...
> In article <488bd585$0$2532$c3e...@news.astraweb.com>, John Nichel
> <jnichel@no_spamby-tor.com> wrote:
>
>> MacRushFan wrote:
>> > Yep Total Cost of Ownership is cheaper.
>> >
>> > You only cry once when you buy the best ;)
>>
>> Keep telling yourself that.
>>
>
> Proof is in the pudding, I am typing this on a Powerbook G4 1.25 from
> 2003 running 10.5.4. It is my newest computer ;) I have replaced the
> Hard Drive and added a stick of memory...
Nice snip of Nichel's proof there, ya rotten apple!
catpandaddy
"Giovanni" <jand...@NOSPAMplanet.nl> wrote in message
news:488c245a$0$6011$ba62...@text.nova.planet.nl...
You think talking with Snoop about this is a mind bender, wait til Hannukah
gets here.
The Professor
news:2008072708270216807-snoop@comptoncom:
You know it's funny how Mac folks feel so compelled to evangelize PC
users, while it's rare to see a PC user argue that others "should" use
PCs. I don't think one is "better" than the other, any more than Target
is objectively "better" than Wal-Mart and that Wal-Mart shoppers
"should" be shopping at Target. The trade-offs between the two (in both
cases) are different and thus match better with some people's needs than
others.
Enjoy your Mac Snoop.
The Professor (...but it would be nice if you didn't sound like you
thought the rest of us are utter idiots for not seeing The Truth like
you have)
catpandaddy
"The Professor" <shor...@twcny.rr.comrade> wrote in message
news:Xns9AE8813275955...@216.196.97.131...
I'm dreading December already.
SnoopDoggy
>
> The Professor (...but it would be nice if you didn't sound like you
> thought the rest of us are utter idiots for not seeing The Truth like
> you have)
I don't think people are idiots for not using Macs - How would most
people know the difference if they never tried it? I just can't stand
how much wasted time of mine has been spent fixing complete nonsense on
XP or Vista. I think that the Macheads like myself want to spread the
word to help others avoid the same fate. It's not a "we are better than
you" thing at all.
Max C. Webster III
>> Why would anyone be paying for freeware? You could argue that the writers of
>> it pay with the time they invest in it but it is their own choice to release
>> their work/hobby projects as freeware.
>
> You think talking with Snoop about this is a mind bender, wait til Hannukah
> gets here.
Oh, Snoopy, Snoopy, Snoopy,
He really loves his Mac
When it comes to PCs
His bile he won't hold back.
- Max -
=======
Courtney Cox, I love you . . .
As Americans we must always remember that we all
have a common enemy, an enemy that is dangerous,
powerful, and relentless. I refer, of course,
to the federal government. - Dave Barry
SnoopDoggy
> You think talking with Snoop about this is a mind bender, wait til
> Hannukah gets here.
Nah, last year we didn't even talk about Santa vs. the Rabbis. We need
some knucklehead to tear down a Christmas tree or Menora on public
property to get AMR fired-up, but I'm kind of bored with that whole
"debate" anyway.
Snoop (Come to think about it, Santa would probably use a Mac)
catpandaddy
"SnoopDoggy" <sn...@compton.com> wrote in message
news:2008072709481616807-snoop@comptoncom...
And yet you and/or MacRushFan never address it when the same evidence about
the Macs is introduced by the very people who work on both...
<quote> [Nichel]
> Has seen almost $10k of his 2008 budget go to Mac OS updates and third
> party Mac software that is included, or freely available for the PC. And
> lets not even get into the manhours spent on having Macs in a mixed OS
> office system. The Linux and Windows machines just seem to work, whereas
> the Macs have to be dragged kicking and screaming.
</quote>
People who live in glass kettles, shouldn't throw raaaeeain.
SnoopDoggy
>
> And yet you and/or MacRushFan never address it when the same evidence
> about the Macs is introduced by the very people who work on both...
What evidence? Petard talked about legacy issues that have been fixed.
I described open, known and major bugs in XP that have not been fixed
for years (e.g., the "repair" feature). I haven't had to reset my iMac
_ever_ because of a major crash. I've never had a virus and no spyware.
I've had applications freeze from time to time, but that's it.
Handover Phist
Trojans that put popup advertising in front of a bazillion pairs of
eyeballs sells for a touch more than chump change.
--
SURVIVE Y2K SOMEHOW
catpandaddy
>>>
>>
>> And yet you and/or MacRushFan never address it when the same evidence
>> about the Macs is introduced by the very people who work on both...
>
> What evidence? Petard talked about legacy issues that have been fixed.
Lol! I requoted the **paragraph of Nichel's [which MacRushFan snipped
first!] then when I requoted it, you re-snipped it in your response! It
just doesn't get more classic than this.
**Okay now, don't snip it this time:
<quote> [Nichel]
> Has seen almost $10k of his 2008 budget go to Mac OS updates and third
> party Mac software that is included, or freely available for the PC. And
> lets not even get into the manhours spent on having Macs in a mixed OS
> office system. The Linux and Windows machines just seem to work, whereas
> the Macs have to be dragged kicking and screaming.
</quote>
This would appear to undermine Apple's "total cost of ownership" argument.
While I don't blame the Apple Koolaid Kamp for snipping and avoiding the
fact, they shouldn't be surprised when called on it.
--
Dale Hicks
edd836...@f36g2000hsa.googlegroups.com>, jago...@gmail.com
says...
Ah, so they know that Apple people have already given their money
away. OK.
MacRushFan
<sn...@compton.com> wrote:
I do work on both, my company issued computer is an HP laptop. I get a
lot of work done using vertical apps that are not available on the mac.
It has its place but as Snoop said, we are only trying to help
highlight what we have found to be good is all.
To each his own....
John Nichel
> In article <488bd585$0$2532$c3e...@news.astraweb.com>, John Nichel
> <jnichel@no_spamby-tor.com> wrote:
>
>> MacRushFan wrote:
>>> Yep Total Cost of Ownership is cheaper.
>>>
>>> You only cry once when you buy the best ;)
>> Keep telling yourself that.
>>
>
> Proof is in the pudding, I am typing this on a Powerbook G4 1.25 from
> 2003 running 10.5.4. It is my newest computer ;) I have replaced the
> Hard Drive and added a stick of memory...
>
Newest machine in this house...put together in 2003. The only one to
have upgrades, mine; more memory and hard drives (2TB baby).
> Anyone running Vista on any laptops that were made in 2003 with
> original CPU?
Laptops? No, 2 laptops in this house right now, both from 1999, one is
running W2K, the other is running RH9. But on a desktop assembled in
2002, yes. AMD 2.0Ghz, 1.5G memory. Runs fine.
If you like Macs, that's great, but if you feel like you have to justify
your purchase by something other than, "it's what I wanted", I have to
wonder if you're not liking the kool-aid.
Max C. Webster III
>> Proof is in the pudding, I am typing this on a Powerbook G4 1.25 from
>> 2003 running 10.5.4. It is my newest computer ;) I have replaced the
>> Hard Drive and added a stick of memory...
>
> Newest machine in this house...put together in 2003. The only one to have
> upgrades, mine; more memory and hard drives (2TB baby).
>
>> Anyone running Vista on any laptops that were made in 2003 with
>> original CPU?
>
> Laptops? No, 2 laptops in this house right now, both from 1999, one is
> running W2K, the other is running RH9. But on a desktop assembled in 2002,
> yes. AMD 2.0Ghz, 1.5G memory. Runs fine.
My "home" PC is a 2004 entry-level Dell Dimension 2400 (P4 2.66GHZ, 2GB RAM).
I'm running the same WinXP Pro SP2 it came with. I don't think I'd need to do
a thing to this box to run Vista. I ain't gonna put Vista on it, but I don't
think it would need any updating.
This replaced a 1998 entry-level HP running Win98 SE (don't recall the
specifics other than a 40GB drive). I've still got that box, and I've been
thinking of putting in a large hard drive and making it a music server.
- Max -
=======
John Nichel
> "John Nichel" <jnichel@no_spamby-tor.com> done said:
>
>>> Proof is in the pudding, I am typing this on a Powerbook G4 1.25 from
>>> 2003 running 10.5.4. It is my newest computer ;) I have replaced the
>>> Hard Drive and added a stick of memory...
>> Newest machine in this house...put together in 2003. The only one to have
>> upgrades, mine; more memory and hard drives (2TB baby).
>>
>>> Anyone running Vista on any laptops that were made in 2003 with
>>> original CPU?
>> Laptops? No, 2 laptops in this house right now, both from 1999, one is
>> running W2K, the other is running RH9. But on a desktop assembled in 2002,
>> yes. AMD 2.0Ghz, 1.5G memory. Runs fine.
>
>
> My "home" PC is a 2004 entry-level Dell Dimension 2400 (P4 2.66GHZ, 2GB RAM).
> I'm running the same WinXP Pro SP2 it came with. I don't think I'd need to do
> a thing to this box to run Vista. I ain't gonna put Vista on it, but I don't
> think it would need any updating.
>
> This replaced a 1998 entry-level HP running Win98 SE (don't recall the
> specifics other than a 40GB drive). I've still got that box, and I've been
> thinking of putting in a large hard drive and making it a music server.
>
That's the reason the, "higher resale value" item championed by the Mac
crowd means nothing to me. For 'higher resale' to have any value to me,
I'd have to sell off my old machines. I still have an IBM P-75 machine,
with 4Mb of memory running as my gateway/firewall. Got a PII-300 Compaq
machine running as my print server. Then there's the closet full of
machines/hardware that I just can't bring myself to part with (ya never
know when you're going to need a 14.4 modem or 5-1/4 floppy drive).
The Professor
news:hE6jk.1069$wY7...@newsfe01.iad:
> My "home" PC is a 2004 entry-level Dell Dimension 2400 (P4 2.66GHZ,
> 2GB RAM). I'm running the same WinXP Pro SP2 it came with. I don't
> think I'd need to do a thing to this box to run Vista. I ain't gonna
> put Vista on it, but I don't think it would need any updating.
Prof is running a 2005 entry-level Dell (P4, 2.33GHZ, 1GB RAM) with the
same WinXP Home SP2 it came with. It would run Vista if I wanted, but I
don't wanna. Only problem I've ever had with it was the aforementioned
bad RAM module. Still handles everything I need it to do just fine.
The Professor (is writing this on the main floor machine, a 2004 Compaq
piece of crap with a 1.4ghz and 512mb RAM which still serves Mrs. Prof
and Little Miss Prof just fine)
--
"Romantic art is the fuel and the sparkplug of a man's soul. Its task is
to set a soul on fire and never let it go out. The task of providing
that fire with a motor and a direction belongs to philosophy." - Ayn
Rand
mh
>
> The Professor (...but it would be nice if you didn't sound like you
> thought the rest of us are utter idiots for not seeing The Truth like
> you have)
>
You mean like some folks do 'round here when folks don't buy the
libertarian mantra hook, line and sinker?
;)
SnoopDoggy
Ouch...
mh
I'd be curious to know what Mac OS updates Nichel paid for since Apple
offers all updates to the OS for free.
Unless, he's talking about upgrading from 10.4.11 to 10.5.x ... Apple
does charge for that -- just like MS charges for an upgrade from XP to
Vista.
Kinda curious about that third-party software that's included on PCs for
"free" but not available on the Mac.
The Professor
I'll be leaving now.... ;)
The Professor (touche)
catpandaddy
Mike Smith
> In article <488bd585$0$2532$c3e...@news.astraweb.com>, John Nichel
> <jnichel@no_spamby-tor.com> wrote:
>
>> MacRushFan wrote:
>>> Yep Total Cost of Ownership is cheaper.
>>>
>>> You only cry once when you buy the best ;)
>> Keep telling yourself that.
>>
>
> 2003 running 10.5.4. It is my newest computer ;) I have replaced the
> Hard Drive and added a stick of memory...
>
> original CPU?
Why would we spend money on an "upgrade" to Vista, when XP does
everything we need and doesn't crash (at least *my* XP don't crash)?
--
Mike Smith
catpandaddy
"Mike Smith" <smithREM...@michaelREMOVETHISsmith.org> wrote in message
news:rMOdnfCv3u1Zow_V...@supernews.com...
Okay, that's it. This thread SO needs to die. To that end, I present the
Apple/PC equivalent of a Godwin Statement:
"Hey, they both suck. Anyone seen the mouse for my Amiga? Now THAT was
computing perfection! Eleventyone!!1!"
--
cpd_threadkill
Barf
I agree with Smith - XP works fine on my 6+ year old desktop and 3+
year old laptop I use at home.
Barfolomew "I'm half man, and half dog. I'm my own best friend!"
"Now I'd like to introduce the band. Geddy, Neil. Neil, Geddy." Big Al
reborn rolla
"Barf" wrote:
> On Thu, 31 Jul 2008 18:37:51 -0400, Mike Smith
> <smithREM...@michaelREMOVETHISsmith.org> wrote:
>
>>MacRushFan wrote:
>>> In article <488bd585$0$2532$c3e...@news.astraweb.com>, John Nichel
>>> <jnichel@no_spamby-tor.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> MacRushFan wrote:
>>>>> Yep Total Cost of Ownership is cheaper.
>>>>>
>>>>> You only cry once when you buy the best ;)
>>>> Keep telling yourself that.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Proof is in the pudding, I am typing this on a Powerbook G4 1.25 from
>>> 2003 running 10.5.4. It is my newest computer ;) I have replaced the
>>> Hard Drive and added a stick of memory...
>>>
>>> Anyone running Vista on any laptops that were made in 2003 with
>>> original CPU?
>>
>>Why would we spend money on an "upgrade" to Vista, when XP does
>>everything we need and doesn't crash (at least *my* XP don't crash)?
>
> I agree with Smith - XP works fine on my 6+ year old desktop and 3+
> year old laptop I use at home.
Same here. 5 years of XP and no problems whatsoever. It's neat to see 246
mb of internet files get deleted after about 30 minutes of using the web. Of
course they still would be in my computer if I didn't have "Webroot Window
Washer".
Mike Smith
> SnoopDoggy <sn...@compton.com> wrote in news:2008072616465316807-
> snoop@comptoncom:
>
>> Plus, PC owners should add the cost of AV and ASpam licenses to their
>> cost calculations (unless they are the same types that downloaded VT
>> for free).
>
> Or perhaps because our places of work are PC shops, we get free access
> at home to the AV software available at work.
>
> Or perhaps because we use PCs, there's lots of freeware out there for
> spyware.
And AV software, for that matter. I've never paid for AV, the free
versions (currently using Avira) do what I need.
--
Mike Smith
Mike Smith
But we libertarians think you're perfectly free to be an idiot, if
that's what you wanna be... ;-P
--
Mike Smith
Mike Smith
> "Mike Smith" sayed:
>
>> SnoopDoggy wrote:
>>> Lastly, has anyone tried to "repair" an installation of XP?
>> Uh, no - I've never had to.
>
> Of course not. How un-aristocratic it would be to use the OS of the unwashed
> masses. Quite.
Uh, I mean "I've never had to repair an XP install, even though I use
several". Y'see, it would have to *break* before I'd have to try and
repair it... (but no, I've never had to repair my Ubuntu install either...)
--
Mike Smith
John Nichel
Don't run it on my *nix boxes. Don't run it on my Windows boxes. Never
had a virus.
--
I installed AV on a Mac once, and OSX was quarantined.
Handover Phist
Fiddled with ClamAV and have it running on my mail server I think. Logs
dont say much and the thing has never emailed me so I guess everythings
kosher. (checks ps -A) Yup, it's still runnin.
--
A can of ASPARAGUS, 73 pigeons, some LIVE ammo, and a FROZEN DAQUIRI!!