Jacobs Ladder Time Signatures
Debora
Allen wrote:
>
> Jason Flynn wrote:
> >
> > V Pettit wrote:
> > >
> > > Have any of you figured out all of the time signatures in Jacobs Ladder? I
> > > came up with so many I figure I've got to be counting them wrong.
> >
> > That one's so tough to figure out I just count it as one long 347 beat
> > measure. No such thing as being off beat then :-) Seriously, I figured
> > it out years ago to learn how to play it and I've since forgotten. It
> > starts out alternating between measures of 5 and 6 beats, then it
> > changes and changes and changes... I don't remember. My guess is you're
> > probably not counting them wrong. (how's that for a cop out?)
> >
> > Jason
>
> To make it even more difficult, Neil plays odd meters across the
> odd time signatures. What I mean by this is that he kinda groups two
> or more measures together that have different time signatures and
> then plays across them as if they were one unit. Know what I mean??
>
> Allen
He does it for several measures during a verse of 'Superconductor', but
to give an example of what he does in JL would take more time than I
have. It's basically mathematics: Take 3 bars of 4/4 and you have 12
beats. Play this as if it was 3/4 and you meet up with Alex + Geddy
(who play in 4/4) 12 beats later but in an unsynchronous sort of way.
Do it right and it sounds cool. Wrong and your band looks foolish
around beat 10.
Rush do this kind of thing quite a bit but they don't necessarily stick
to 4/4, which makes it way complicated at times.
Debora the Drum Rat, who can make it through Jacob's Ladder, but only on
a good day.
Mr Layaway
the synth riff that repeats over and over in the middle section is in 13/8>
>>> Have any of you figured out all of the time signatures in Jacobs Ladder? I
>>> came up with so many I figure I've got to be counting them wrong.
>>
"Do not pay cash! Put it in Layaway!"
T.C.M> Productions
V Pettit wrote:
> Have any of you figured out all of the time signatures in Jacobs
> Ladder? I
> came up with so many I figure I've got to be counting them wrong.
>
> VP
Middle part is 6/8, 7/8. There are too many changes to list. Just buy
any music book.
twin...@newnet.co.uk
Why count it ?????? If you are a music lover,listen to it....If
you are a musician , play it...Feel the rythm, Dont treat it as a
maths test....
Regards Stu..
V Pettit
Sam G. <"sgiacco@LET_THEM_EAT_SPAM"@cedar.vcu.edu> wrote in article
<654prg$17...@mercury.vcu.edu>...
> >
> > Why count it ?????? If you are a music lover,listen to it....If
> > you are a musician , play it...Feel the rythm, Dont treat it as a
> > maths test....
> > Regards Stu..
>
>
> Music is wonderful. It can be thought. It can be felt. It can be
> heard. It can be seen. It can be dreamed. It can be counted. It can
> be understood. It can be misunderstood.
> If someone is a musician who practices his/her art mathematically, so be
> it. That is the beauty of music. One does not have to be 'born' with
> the gift. It can be learned by anyone. Visually, mathematically, or
> aurally. Spiritually or intellectually.
> Peace.
> Sam - who learned to play bass, guitar, mandolin and several other
> instruments VISUALLY & MATHEMATICALLY. I wasn't born with a 'talent.'
> I WORKED FOR IT.
> --
> Reply? Remove @LET_THEM_EAT_SPAM first.
>
Sam, Thanks for the back up.
Many years ago in a garage band far, far away I used to play Jacob's
Ladder. At the time I couldn't read a lick of drum music. I had to just
"Feel the rythm". We didn't do a stellar job, but it was recognizable.
All these thirteen years later I was curious as to what it was that I had
been playing. I have had drum lessons since then but I'm still unsure of
my counting abilities. I think that the old style rock drummer is a dying
breed. Those, like myself, who took up the drums because we didn't want to
buckle down and learn "Michael row your boat ashore" on the piano. All a
drummer needs to do is bang the drums in the right order and voila "I are a
musician". Not.
It's time to modernize and learn all I can about the instrument I love.
"Living in the pools they forget about the sea"
Vince P
Thom Hickey
Sam G. wrote:
> Sam - who learned to play bass, guitar, mandolin and several other
> instruments VISUALLY & MATHEMATICALLY. I wasn't born with a 'talent.'
> I WORKED FOR IT.
Blue-collar musicians, we.
Cheers,
Thom
Sam G.
>
> Why count it ?????? If you are a music lover,listen to it....If
> you are a musician , play it...Feel the rythm, Dont treat it as a
> maths test....
> Regards Stu..
Music is wonderful. It can be thought. It can be felt. It can be
heard. It can be seen. It can be dreamed. It can be counted. It can
be understood. It can be misunderstood.
If someone is a musician who practices his/her art mathematically, so be
it. That is the beauty of music. One does not have to be 'born' with
the gift. It can be learned by anyone. Visually, mathematically, or
aurally. Spiritually or intellectually.
Peace.
Sam - who learned to play bass, guitar, mandolin and several other
instruments VISUALLY & MATHEMATICALLY. I wasn't born with a 'talent.'
I WORKED FOR IT.
Sam G.
Thom Hickey wrote:
>
> Sam G. wrote:
>
> > Sam - who learned to play bass, guitar, mandolin and several other
> > instruments VISUALLY & MATHEMATICALLY. I wasn't born with a 'talent.'
> > I WORKED FOR IT.
>
>
> Cheers,
>
> Thom
Ah yes! And a tough road to hoe. 'Tis hard to find musicians who care
enough about what they do to learn as much as possible about it.
They're way too lazy. Maybe I'm just obsessive...8^)
peace.
Sam - power to the music unions!
Sam G.
V Pettit wrote:
> Sam, Thanks for the back up.
>
> Many years ago in a garage band far, far away I used to play Jacob's
> Ladder. At the time I couldn't read a lick of drum music. I had to just
> "Feel the rythm". We didn't do a stellar job, but it was recognizable.
> All these thirteen years later I was curious as to what it was that I had
> been playing. I have had drum lessons since then but I'm still unsure of
> my counting abilities. I think that the old style rock drummer is a dying
> breed. Those, like myself, who took up the drums because we didn't want to
> buckle down and learn "Michael row your boat ashore" on the piano. All a
> drummer needs to do is bang the drums in the right order and voila "I are a
> musician". Not.
>
> It's time to modernize and learn all I can about the instrument I love.
>
> "Living in the pools they forget about the sea"
>
> Vince P
Similar stories, my friend. I wish I'd taken the time 13 years ago to
learn what I know now. I would have been 10x the musician I was. But,
I press on and continue to expand my musical horizons now, and I've
learned they'll never meet any boundaries. (That's a good thing, 'cause
I've got nothing else in my life that I'd rather do!) I wonder if Rush
ever TRULY realizes how fortuneate they have been to be able to perform
music professionally for their entire lives? They've never had to work
regular jobs. Strange, because within the last few tours, I've had
opportunities to go to meet and greets, all of which Rush has cancelled.
I've heard they don't like that sort of thing anymore. I know they live
very personal, private lives, but, I can't help but to feel a bit let
down. Oh well.
Peace.
Sam - who needs to find some other musicians with whom to jam. Soon.
twin...@newnet.co.uk
On 21 Nov 1997 14:01:00 -0700, "V Pettit" <vp...@primenet.com> wrote:
>
>
>Sam G. <"sgiacco@LET_THEM_EAT_SPAM"@cedar.vcu.edu> wrote in article
><654prg$17...@mercury.vcu.edu>...
>> >
>> > Why count it ?????? If you are a music lover,listen to it....If
>> > you are a musician , play it...Feel the rythm, Dont treat it as a
>> > maths test....
>> > Regards Stu..
>>
>>
>> Music is wonderful. It can be thought. It can be felt. It can be
>> heard. It can be seen. It can be dreamed. It can be counted. It can
>> be understood. It can be misunderstood.
>> If someone is a musician who practices his/her art mathematically, so be
>> it. That is the beauty of music. One does not have to be 'born' with
>> the gift. It can be learned by anyone. Visually, mathematically, or
>> aurally. Spiritually or intellectually.
>> Peace.
>> Sam - who learned to play bass, guitar, mandolin and several other
>> instruments VISUALLY & MATHEMATICALLY. I wasn't born with a 'talent.'
>> I WORKED FOR IT.
>> --
>> Reply? Remove @LET_THEM_EAT_SPAM first.
>>
>
>Sam, Thanks for the back up.
>
>Many years ago in a garage band far, far away I used to play Jacob's
>Ladder. At the time I couldn't read a lick of drum music. I had to just
>"Feel the rythm". We didn't do a stellar job, but it was recognizable.
>All these thirteen years later I was curious as to what it was that I had
>been playing. I have had drum lessons since then but I'm still unsure of
>my counting abilities. I think that the old style rock drummer is a dying
>breed. Those, like myself, who took up the drums because we didn't want to
>buckle down and learn "Michael row your boat ashore" on the piano. All a
>drummer needs to do is bang the drums in the right order and voila "I are a
>musician". Not.
>
>It's time to modernize and learn all I can about the instrument I love.
>
>"Living in the pools they forget about the sea"
>
>Vince P
OK.ok.ok. Call the s.w.a.t. team off.........What I said about about
counting a beat was only meant to be another way of saying relax and
let the song do the work.
I understasnd what you are saying about having to work at it and
not being born with it.I am lucky enough not to have had to worry
about the feeling of playing as I was brought up with 2 or 3
generations all playing instruments around me from an early age..
Thats not to say I am any better or worse than anyone else and that is
what makes it all so enjoyable, even not speaking the same language
isnt a barrier to two people when they can both play together..
If I caused offence with the original post, it was not meant to.
One final thought on counting or feeling the beat though...
A few years ago myself and a few friends went to a drum exhib run
by Sonor drums on the south coast of the UK. The "Guest Pro" was Jon
Marshall from a band called SOFT MACHINE, (we are talking late 70's or
early 80's here..) After doing a very good 10 minute solo, he talked
about the technical side of drumming and used the kit to hit each drum
once in a very fast roll around the 6 drums on his kit.... Then he hit
each drum twice...and then three times on each, and so on.. He
eventually stopped at 17 beats per drum on a roll that seemed to be
over in a split second. When we replayed each roll in our heads,
nobody noticed a single beat dropped. That is a guy who can really
feel a rythm.....
Regards...Stu.
Ken Rinehart
This is correct, one bar of 6/8 followed by 7/8. I've heard Peart refer
to this as being in 13/8 which, for obvious reasons, could be
interpreted that way but because of the way Alex plays his riff and the
medium tempo, it makes more sense to break it down.
Ken
--
³Remove the nospam from the address below to reply²
Ken Rinehart
San Jose, CA
rine...@nospam.netcom.com
TOMUND
Robert wrote:
>In case this hasn't been mentioned already, ignore the drums. Alex
>outlines the time signatures with his repeating lines. One measure of
>6/8, one of 7/8 - as I recall it stays pretty much the same up to the
>unison accents near the end of the song.
Actually, I've always counted the main body of the song (the part with lyrics)
mostly in 4/4. If you listen to the timing of the vocals (The clouds prepare
for battle in the dark and brooding silence. Bruised and sullen storm clouds
have the light of day obscured . . .), it's in 4/4 with Alex accenting
different beats in the measure. However, I guess he could be playing in "13/8"
against Neil's and Ged's 4/4. I've seen that done in classical music quite a
bit. Accoring to the sheet music I have (Rush: Complete Vol. I) for the song,
most of it's in 4/4, though. Just a thought.
Rook
p.s. My roommate and I share this account, and he hates NG mail. Replies are
welcome, but please send them directly to this group. Thanks in advance.
Craig Anderson
--
Message Sent from PCS GMail
Joe "The Diaperizah" Mahoney
> Allen wrote:
> > Jason Flynn wrote:
> > >
> > > V Pettit wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Have any of you figured out all of the time signatures in Jacobs Ladder? I
> > > > came up with so many I figure I've got to be counting them wrong.
> > >
> > > measure. No such thing as being off beat then :-) Seriously, I figured
> > > it out years ago to learn how to play it and I've since forgotten. It
> > > starts out alternating between measures of 5 and 6 beats, then it
> > > changes and changes and changes... I don't remember. My guess is you're
> > > probably not counting them wrong. (how's that for a cop out?)
> > >
> > > Jason
> >
> > To make it even more difficult, Neil plays odd meters across the
> > odd time signatures. What I mean by this is that he kinda groups two
> > or more measures together that have different time signatures and
> > then plays across them as if they were one unit. Know what I mean??
> >
> > Allen
> He does it for several measures during a verse of 'Superconductor', but
> to give an example of what he does in JL would take more time than I
> have. It's basically mathematics: Take 3 bars of 4/4 and you have 12
> beats. Play this as if it was 3/4 and you meet up with Alex + Geddy
> (who play in 4/4) 12 beats later but in an unsynchronous sort of way.
> Do it right and it sounds cool. Wrong and your band looks foolish
> around beat 10.
> Rush do this kind of thing quite a bit but they don't necessarily stick
> to 4/4, which makes it way complicated at times.
> Debora the Drum Rat, who can make it through Jacob's Ladder, but only on
> a good day.