Ray Danniels Kills Rush In New Sammy Hagar Book
Bunny
the bass player for a huge band, Michael Anthony is still scared to not be a
part of Van Halen. If I was him and had agreed to play a gig, and the VH
brothers, at the last minute, said no, I'd tell them to get stuffed and do
the gig anyway. Sounds like the VH brothers are control freaks with an ever
diminishing audience.
As for Ray Danniels - well if this is all true, he sounds like a manager.
I'd like to know how much he's earned off Rush over the years, especially
considering he thinks they need a singer. Don't you just hate arse lickers.
KineticDreams <kineti...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20010206232740...@ng-cl1.aol.com...
> 2 chapters of it are on the internet and the Van Halen newsgroup. If you
want
> them email me. Ray Danniels just slams Rush into the ground in it.
>
> Here is an excerpt:
>
> "In the nine years I had been in the band, this was the first time AI and
I
> ever started screaming 'Fuck you, fuck you!' at each other. When things
> simmered down between us, I told Alex that if he and I were going to fight
over
> Ray Danniels, Van Halen was over. Ifl kicked his ass, the band would never
be
> the same. If he kicked my ass, the band would be broken for good. Finally
I
> said, 'AI, if you really want to fight me, let's take it outside and
really do
> it without Ray Danniels being an issue.' Eddie quickly entered the
conversation
> and said, 'Listen Sammy, why don't you call David Geffen, or so-and-so, to
see
> what they think about Ray .' That broke the tension, and cooled off the
> situation between Alex and me. I told Eddie I'd call around to see what I
could
> find out."
> Hagar wasted not time in making phone calls to people around the industry
to
> get information on Ray Danniels. Sammy says he was totally dismayed by the
> negative reaction he got from people who knew the manager All the
individuals
> he polled were unanimous in their opinion that Danniels was not a wise
choice
> for the band.
> "He had the worst rap for a manager I had ever heard in my entire life,"
said
> an
> astonished Hagar. "Straight up, I was told that if Van Halen hired Ray
Danniels
> as their new manager, the band was finished. I got the very same answer
from
> record company presidents, financial people and promoters. Everyone I
spoke
> with in a position of authority , who had some sort of contact with him in
the
> past, told me quote unquote, 'If you use Ray Danniels, this band will go
down
> to nothing. This guy is a slime bag. He will stab you in the back, and he
will
> rob those guys.' Every one of the people I spoke to felt the same way
about
> Ray. Ed and AI still wouldn't listen to me when I reported my findings
back to
> them.
> "1 even went to Mo Austin with a list of managers' names we were
considering.
> He looked at it and said, 'Ray Danniels! Who's that?' I explained to him
that
> he was the manager for Rush and he said, 'Na, forget it!' Eddie and AI
still
> didn't care when I told them what Mo said. They were like moths drawn to a
> flame when it came to Ray. They had a single-minded consciousness about
him. No
> matter what obstacles were thrown in the way, nothing was going to stop
them
> from voting their man in as Van Halen's new manager. He had to have made
some
> sort of deal with them, because the brothers offered to give a bigger
> percentage of their earnings than they gave Leffler. Now I didn't do that,
and
> that's why we never got along. I wouldn't give him what he wanted. Here's
the
> thing. Michael Anthony's the key. He would never say it now, but ifhe ever
gets
> kicked out of Van Halen, or quits, he will have one helluva story to tell.
He
> knows everything, because he was at a lot of the meetings with Ray and the
> brothers that I didn't attend. When Mikey was on my side, he told me some
> unbelievable things about Ray Danniels. You know what? Mike is still on my
> side, but he can't acknowledge it, if you know what I mean. If he did, the
> brothers would kick him out of the band. "
> After Johnny Barbis and Shep Gordon were voted down as a management team,
> Hagar's last chance to get a good manager for the band rested with Tim
Collins,
> who handled Aerosmith. Sammy thought he would be a good fit for Van Halen,
> because he could help break Eddie from his drug and alcohol
dependency -just as
> he had done with Joe Perry. Hagar says that when the Boston native first
hooked
> up with the Aerosmith guitarist in the early '80s, he was in terrible
shape,
> worse than Eddie Van Halen ever thought of getting. Collins not only
cleaned up
> Perry's act, he was instrumental in reuniting him with Steven Tyler. When
he
> assumed management duties of the reformed band, a clean and
> sober Aerosmith once again became a powerhouse in the music business.
Sammy
> believed the manager would do a good job of keeping Van Halen
psychologically
> sound. Things were starting to get a little goofy in the studio, as he
puts it,
> between Eddie and himself, and the band needed someone to calm things
down.
> Another factor weighing heavily in Collins favor was his strong
relationship
> with MTV .Having won three video awards on their last album, Hagar thought
it
> was especially important for Van Halen's new manager to have a strong
> relationship with the music video channel. Ray Danniels, he found out, had
> absolutely no pull at the network. Sammy thought it was vital to have
MTV's
> support when the new album was released. An Aerosmith/V an Halen
combination,
> he was convinced, would make both bands a powerful combination to be dealt
with
> on a worldwide level.
> "1 figured with both groups under his control," explained Sammy, "Tim
could
> make phone calls and say, 'Oh, you don't like Van Halen. Well, you aren't
going
> to get Aerosmith either.' Hearing that, people would go, 'Wait a minute;
let's
> talk.' With both bands at his disposal, it would give Tim considerable
clout in
> all aspects of the music business. He could definitely help us out in the
> European market where we had trouble. I really thought the brothers would
> understand that and vote him in. When I mentioned his name to Alex, he
said,
> 'Tim Collins? He already manages Aerosmith. That's all he'll ever do.
Aerosmith
> will be No. I, and we will always be second.' I told Al that wouldn't be
the
> case. In fact, I had already asked Tim that very question, about juggling
both
> bands.
> Since these guys were already slamming every manager we talked to, I
thought
> I'd better confront him on the issue before he spoke with the brothers.
> "Tim was very matter-of-fact with me on the subject. He told me that if we
> scheduled everything just right, one band would be recording their album,
while
> the other one was out touring to support their new release. Tim was up
front
> and to the point with me about where his true allegiance rested. He said,
'Sam,
> if there was ever a time when both Aerosmith and Van Halen had a single
coming
> out at the same time, my loyalty would lie with Aerosmith first. I'm not
stupid
> enough to do something like that, but if it did happen and I was forced to
make
> a decision for whatever reason, Aerosmith would take precedence over Van
> Halen.' After he said that, I knew he was the one we needed. Ifl would
have
> posed that same question to Ray in regards to Rush over Van Halen, he
would
> have said, 'Oh well, of course it would be you.' He would have said we
were No.
> I over his wife, his kids, you name it -just to manage the band. When Tim
told
> me that, I was thinking, 'Wow, that's a great statement. That's what I
want to
> hear.' I told Al about my conversation the next day, and he said, 'That is
a
> psychological ploy. He's been messing with all these psychologists that
are
> involved with Aerosmith. He knows exactly what to say because of them.' I
> looked at Alex and said, 'Well, Ray's had fucking Rush for 23 years. Do
you
> think he's going to be more loyal to us than them?' He said, 'Oh, Rush is
going
> to retire. They are washed up. Ray knows they're finished. He told me that
> himself.' Alex went on and on with all this horseshit about Rush he'd been
told
> by Ray." Hagar says he was appalled at the negative comments directed
toward
> Rush by Alex Van Halen that he attributed directly to Ray Danniels. Sammy
was
> even more offended at the fact that Al's brother-in-law wanted to manage
Van
> Halen so badly, he was willing sell out his other band to get the job. For
over
> two decades, Danniels had stood behind Rush. From what Hagar was hearing,
> apparently that was a thing of the past. The Red Rocker even spoke to Ray
> himself about the Canadian trio and was astounded by the answers he
>
> received.
> "Ray even bad-mouthed Rush to me," said an incredulous Hagar. "Can you
believe
> it? He was saying shit like, 'If they had a good singer, they could have
made
> it on pop radio.' He was telling me that with the kind of music they play,
Rush
> would never be any more than they already have been. I started hammering
him
> with questions. I said, 'Ray, Rush
> should have been the Canadian Led Zeppelin. Why don't they sell records?
Why
> did their last record only do 400,000 or 500,000 records?' He said to me,
'If
> they only had a
> singer.' He was crazy to say that, because Geddy Lee has one of the most
unique
> voices in rock. Rush's big problem is they never had any videos -which is
one
> of the major complaints I had against Ray. I knew his dealing with MTV
would
> bury us. I even called over there and asked them about their relationship
with
> him. They didn't even know who Ray Danniels was. When I told them he was
the
> manager of Rush, they said, 'Well, we never had a relationship with Rush.
We've
> only had a couple ofvideos from them.' In other words, Ray had no clout
with
> them whatsoever."
> About a week after Alex and Sammy had their conversation, Hagar received a
> phone call from Danniels. He was in management discussions with the band
> Extreme, and wanted to know his thoughts about taking the band on as a
client.
> The Boston-based outfit had been under the guidance of Louis Levine, who
also
> managed Michael Bolton. The group, featuring Gary Cherone on vocals and
Nuno
> Bettencourt on guitar, hit the big time in 1991 with Pomograffiti. The
double
> platinum album featured the No.1 smash, "More Than Words" and the Top Ten
hit,
> "Whole-Hearted." After that record, the group stumbled badly and never
again
> recaptured its past glory .
> "Ray was kissing my ass so bad you wouldn't believe it," added Hagar
shaking
> his head. "He called me and said, 'I have been asked to manage Extreme. I
want
> to know your opinion of it.' He was trying to get me to say okay. Instead
I
> just said, 'I don't think you should do it. Extreme is a bunch of losers
No.1,
> and second, their career is over.' Ray went on to tell me that he had
hired a
> guy in New York to handle the situation, so it wouldn't get in the way of
> things. He says, 'I promise you some other guy will manage the band. I'll
just
> oversee it and help them out politically .' Let me tell you, he got way
> involved with them. When I brought up the subject of Ray managing Extreme
to
> Alex, he said, 'Ah, fuck them. That doesn't matter; they're nothing.
Besides,
> he's got another guy to work with them anyway.' I'm thinking to myself,
'Here
> we go again!' "
> While the debate over a new manager raged on, Van Halen was in the studio
> working on the album they were dedicating to the memory of Ed Leffler.
David
> Lee Roth released Your Filthy Little Mouth on March 26. It entered the
> Billboard charts at No.78 and dropped off fourteen days later. While Wamer
> Bros. was trying to squeeze some airplay for Roth anywhere in the country
they
> could, the Red Rocker was busy promoting his 12- song greatest hits album
for
> Geffen. He called the record Unboxed, to poke fun at all the artists and
bands
> that were releasing boxed-set collections at the time. Released on April
2,
> Sammy stayed true to his word and did a two- week press junket. He did the
> David Letterman Showand appeared on CNN's Showbiz Today. He was slotted to
do
> the Tonight Show and perform "Give to Live," but the brothers forced
Michael
> Anthony to withdraw from Sammy's band at the last minute, thus cancelling
the
> performance.
>
The Professor
craziness with VH over the years. Whatever Ray thinks, and he may well have
been telling VH what he thought they wanted to hear, or they may be making a
mountain out of a mole hill, there's no question that there would be no Rush
without Ray. It was Ray who fronted the money that got Rush over the hump
in the early years. We can endlessly debate what Rush's career might have
looked like if Ray had managed them differently, or had a better
relationship with MTV or whatever.
Here's the question: so what? Are we so unhappy with the last 26 years
that we would have wanted a different manager or a different direction?
Given the choice between the career Rush has had under Ray Danniels and the
chance at an uncertain alternative (which could have included more
mainstream popularity and the problems that come with it), I'll take what we
got.
Has anyone ever asked Geddy, Neil, and Al if they are unhappy with Ray?
It's not like they would stick with him out of blind loyalty (after all, ask
Terry Brown about that :) ).
This is a big nothing.
The Professor (heard APC on MTV yesterday [Judith]. I was not impressed.)
Bunny <cardina...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:pD8g6.2602$o85....@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
Erasmus Brown
>
> Frankly, you gotta take all this with a HUGE grain of salt, given all the
> craziness with VH over the years. Whatever Ray thinks, and he may well have
> been telling VH what he thought they wanted to hear, or they may be making a
> mountain out of a mole hill, there's no question that there would be no Rush
> without Ray. It was Ray who fronted the money that got Rush over the hump
> in the early years. We can endlessly debate what Rush's career might have
> looked like if Ray had managed them differently, or had a better
> relationship with MTV or whatever.
>
> Here's the question: so what? Are we so unhappy with the last 26 years
> that we would have wanted a different manager or a different direction?
> Given the choice between the career Rush has had under Ray Danniels and the
> chance at an uncertain alternative (which could have included more
> mainstream popularity and the problems that come with it), I'll take what we
> got.
>
> Has anyone ever asked Geddy, Neil, and Al if they are unhappy with Ray?
> It's not like they would stick with him out of blind loyalty (after all, ask
> Terry Brown about that :) ).
>
> This is a big nothing.
>
Well, at least Sammy has good taste :)
KineticDreams
>I'd like to know how much he's earned off Rush over the years, especially
>considering he thinks they need a singer. Don't you just hate arse lickers.
Ray Danniels is like a bad word in the music industry and is known as a
con-man. I believe Rush has sold nearly 40 million albums world wide . I think
the way Ray operates business Rush could have been what Hagar stated " The
Canadian Led Zep" and probably doubled their sales.
Nyarlathotep
Where, in that passage, did Danniels "kill" Rush?
Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/
Jebediah Springfield
In article <20010206232740...@ng-cl1.aol.com>,
> enough to do something like that, but if it did happen and I was
forced to make
Nyarlathotep
libe...@my-deja.com
to put on?
Steven, be a good boy, do what I told you in the email I sent you. If
you don't, daddy won't be sending you anymore private emails. And stop
with the lying, deceiving BS.
OK boy?
Your daddy, Liberator.
Nyarlathotep
"Bunny" <cardina...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Seems sad to me that this story indicates that after 22-23 years of
being
> the bass player for a huge band, Michael Anthony is still scared to
not be a
> part of Van Halen. If I was him and had agreed to play a gig, and the
VH
> brothers, at the last minute, said no, I'd tell them to get stuffed
and do
> the gig anyway. Sounds like the VH brothers are control freaks with an
ever
> diminishing audience.
I agree completely. Incidentally, the VH brothers were ready to
drop Anthony at a moment's notice a few years back. Their prospective
replacement -- whom they had been seen courting in L.A. -- was Billy
Sheehan.
Daniel McConnell
Not sure what the truth really is behind all of these stories, Hagar and
otherwise. But someday it will all come to an end and Michael Anthony
will probably write a very interesting book.
Prime Mover
"Jebediah Springfield" <cindere...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:95s5ei$t4v$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
> I think Rush IS the Canadian Led Zeppelin.
>
Good god! You ever say that again I'll kick your ass from Nunuvut to
Victoria Island.
I hate Led Zeppelin.
PM
dicky...@my-deja.com
Nyarlathotep <nyarla...@my-deja.com> wrote:
> I agree completely. Incidentally, the VH brothers were ready to
> drop Anthony at a moment's notice a few years back. Their prospective
> replacement -- whom they had been seen courting in L.A. -- was Billy
> Sheehan.
If Billy Sheehan had joined VH I think it would have been a step closer
to what the VH brothers always wanted...to be the next Rush.
Charlie C.
@nnrp1.deja.com>:
>
> I agree completely. Incidentally, the VH brothers were ready to
>drop Anthony at a moment's notice a few years back. Their prospective
>replacement -- whom they had been seen courting in L.A. -- was Billy
>Sheehan.
>
>
>Sent via Deja.com
>http://www.deja.com/
A few years ago (93 or 94?) I went to a seminar put on at a local music
store by Jeff Berlin. (Jeff Berlin is an amazing bassist who has played
for Bill Bruford among others and Neil Peart played on his album Champion.)
During the seminar Jeff Berlin says HE was invited to join Van Halen. Now
Jeff seemed like a very nice guy and has totall credibility as far as bass
playing goes but I wasn't sure I belived that! With what I'm hearing now,
however, it may have actually been true.
TapeHead4
>If Billy Sheehan had joined VH I think it would have been a step closer
>to what the VH brothers always wanted...to be the next Rush.
Took the words right out of my mouth. Ever since F.U.C.K., =VH= was headed in
that direction. Their last album was also leaning towards a Rush style (at
least more so than Diver Down or OU812 or Van Halen II or...) and Cherone fits
more in that style than Sammy or Dave. Uggh, it's all one big mess regardless.
Van Halen is screwed now any way they look at it.
Paul
formerly TapeHead4
4daeHepaT ylremrof
luaP
TapeHead4
>> I think Rush IS the Canadian Led Zeppelin.
>
> Gonna give you my love!
It just ain't AMR without the line. You know the line...
...ONNA GIVE YOU EVERY INCH OF MY LOVE!!!
Matthew D. Sullivan
wrote:
Yes, and wouldn't it have been horrible if Rush had turned out to be
"the Canadian Led Zeppelin"? I'm with Prof, I'll take what we got.
-Matt S.
Al
Liquidmuse
the hardest...the rest of the record is cure meets tool, & it's great...
Nyarlathotep
That's news to me. Yeah, I find it hard to believe that Berlin
would fabricate such a story.
John Shafto
> Nyarl wrote...
> >> I think Rush IS the Canadian Led Zeppelin.
> >
> > Gonna give you my love!
>
> It just ain't AMR without the line. You know the line...
>
> ...ONNA GIVE YOU EVERY INCH OF MY LOVE!!!
WAAAAY, DOWN INSIDE, WOMAN...YOU NEED.....
--
Dulcius Ex Asperis
SoumenT
when Ray Daniels started managing them; that's not an exagerration at all...
gttim
Makes you wonder what would have happened with a different manager.
Their merchandising pretty much sucks.
Also makes you wonder how much Eddie's reported drug problems have
caused the downhill tumble. Gary as a lead singer was a horrible idea.
He was bland whitebread after David and Sammy.
Tim
--
Now that we know George W. Bush's dog is named Spot and his right-hand
man is named Dick, isn't it obvious what was the most influential book
in his life?
TapeHead4
>Gary as a lead singer was a horrible idea.
>He was bland whitebread after David and Sammy.
David - playing Vegas.
Sammy - singing about tequila.
Gary was the best thing that happened to them.
Adam
At best, his singing is OK. More often, he sounds somewhere between
horrible and mediocre (especially live, when he often lacks control).
I'm not slamming him... He's a great songwriter and bassist. He just
wasn't born with a great singing voice (his solo album is excellent, though).
However, I think Geddy has been good enough for most of Rush's music
because they typically don't focus on singing. When Geddy's voice is
more in the forefront of the music (like ASOH and some songs during the
90s) it doesn't work well.
Note that I don't think Geddy's voice held them back commercially. A lot
of their music just isn't that accessible.
Les Claypool isn't much of a singer either, but his voice is always low
in the mix in Primus' stuff, so it's OK.
Before you bring forth your flames... I am not trolling. Rush is and has
been my favorite band for almost 15 years.
Kevin Caffrey
>From: highest...@aol.com (TapeHead4)
>Date: 2/9/2001 10:01 AM Pacific Standard Time
>Message-id: <20010209130157...@ng-mp1.aol.com>
>
>Gttim wrote...
>>Gary as a lead singer was a horrible idea.
>>He was bland whitebread after David and Sammy.
>
>David - playing Vegas.
>Sammy - singing about tequila.
>Gary was the best thing that happened to them.
lol.
Kevin
Kevin Caffrey's Packaged To Play ~ http://members.aol.com/kevincaffrey
Grimlock5150
responsible and hardworking do well with SRO"
Then how did Cherone end up in VH? Just by chance? I think not.
SoumenT
>> I think Rush IS the Canadian Led Zeppelin.
Well, if they're not, then who the HELL is??
Fabian J Lelo
didn't continue to produce Rush or else Neil's vital input may not have ever
been in effect.
So what I want to know is. What were Geddy and Alex's reactions in regards
to Neil writing all the lyrics? Why has Neil always been writing the lyrics
even though he wasn't really the original drummer. Anyways God bless the
guy. Maybe I shouldn't haven't said that in light of recent events
especially on Neil's part...oops sorry.
FVD - The Whole F'n Show.
<libe...@my-deja.com> wrote in message news:95s87u$vq8$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
Fabian J Lelo
and you'll wind up being skinned alive. Even though I thought that VH3 was
okay. I'll always be a Van Hagar person most likely. There were rumours of
David Coverdale stepping up to the plate as the next singer. He would have
done a fine job IMO.
As for Mike. How could Ed and Al drop this guy also? The guess they are
fucked after all.
FVD - The Whole F'n Show.
TapeHead4 <highest...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20010207233318...@ng-df1.aol.com...
DJ
>
> So what I want to know is. What were Geddy and Alex's reactions in
regards
> to Neil writing all the lyrics? Why has Neil always been writing the
lyrics
> even though he wasn't really the original drummer.
You know ... I had thoughts along these lines (but not the same question as
you) earlier when I made the transition from Rush to FBN ... what really
amazes me about FBN is how these three guys just pulled it together so well
so quickly! What a change in style from the first to the next. I mean,
Alex and Geddy both showcase their musical talents on Rush, but it's such an
abrupt shift in subject matter and context ... it's amazing how they clicked
so fast. So Neil comes in with By-Tor while Alex and Geddy are going "Well
I need what keeps a young man alive ... I'm sayin' I need it now ..." and
"Hey baby it's a quarter to eight ..." They were meant to be together. Or
else, how could Alex and Geddy write such amazingly appropriate music for
Neil's lyrics?
You know, I just looked at Rutsey's picture on the album cover ... he looks
like a freakin idiot with buck teeth. (Alex and Geddy just look beautiful
with their Pantene Pro-V hair).
GoA
John Shafto
>
> You know, I just looked at Rutsey's picture on the album cover ... he
looks
> like a freakin idiot with buck teeth. (Alex and Geddy just look beautiful
> with their Pantene Pro-V hair).
I heard they used mostly beer and baby shampoo in those days..??
:-)
--
Dorothy: "How can you talk if you haven't got a brain"?
Scarecrow: "I don't know, but some people without brains
do an aweful lot of talking."
Dorothy: "Yes, I guess you're right."
williamf...@yahoo.com
Bek Coddington
> Did any of the members of Rush ever respond to Hagar's accusations re: Daniels?
Here's why: In 1985, Van Halen got rid of their singer, producer, stage crew and manager.
The manager - Ed Leffler - from 1985 onward had been Hagar's manager. His contact, or "friend" if you will.
What the singer (Hagar) is getting at here just sounds like somewhat desperate, selfish lies.
1) Rush aren't cool and aren't "on MTV all the time" but they have a huge audience globally, and have had one consistent manager.
2) Getting Alex's brother in law to manage the band would mean Hagar's clout in managing percentages, sales, business decisions would possibly be lessened.
AS IF people really preferred the shiny/AOR fake stuff that "Van Hagar" released anyway.
Ironically, by the time Ray Danniels was offering to manage the bands various things, they were a "legacy" or nostalgia act anyway. I don't think they ever had the popularity they once had in 1984.