Time Signatures
Le Chevalier Blanc
I've been thinking about this for a while and wanted to get use the
net's vast array of knowledge to answer the question(s):
Which Rush song has the most time signature changes in it?
Which Rush song has the most unique time signatures in it?
I'm thinking of complete time signatures, not riffs or solos (for
example, the guitar/bass/drum run at the beginning of YYZ wouldn't
count, but the intro would).
Examples of songs that change often are Limelight, Losin' It, and
The Camera Eye. e.g. Losin' it starts in 5/4, moves to 4/4, back
to 5/4, 4/4, the solo is in 11/8 and the end of the solo slips into
6/8. Limelight hops between 4/4, 7/4, 6/8, etc...
-Dave Easter
--
David J. Easter ) ...!uunet!altos!deaster | dea...@altos.COM (Honarary Weasel)
Support Engineer) "Chivalry is not dead, it's just paralyzed from the neck up."
Altos Computers ) Disclaimer: mine, mine, mine; get, get, get; mine, mine mine!
"Sadder still to watch it die than never to have known it." -Rush `Losing It`
Ron Echeverri
>Which Rush song has the most time signature changes in it?
>Which Rush song has the most unique time signatures in it?
>The Camera Eye. e.g. Losin' it starts in 5/4, moves to 4/4, back
>to 5/4, 4/4, the solo is in 11/8 and the end of the solo slips into
>6/8. Limelight hops between 4/4, 7/4, 6/8, etc...
La Villa Strangiato comes to mind.... especially in the middle (i don't know
which particular part it is) when it's on 7/4 and it's on a guitar riff and
after the set, Alex adds a note to the riff and it becomes 4/4... i love that
5150
hasn't taken any music classes since high school. ick.
Eric A. Meyer
In a previous article, dea...@gumby.Altos.COM (Le Chevalier Blanc) says:
>Examples of songs that change often are Limelight, Losin' It, and
>The Camera Eye. e.g. Losin' it starts in 5/4, moves to 4/4, back
>to 5/4, 4/4, the solo is in 11/8 and the end of the solo slips into
>6/8. Limelight hops between 4/4, 7/4, 6/8, etc...
How about "Jacob's Ladder"? It starts out switching between 5/4 and
6/4 EVERY MEASURE. Or "Natural Science", which has a lot of funky time
signatures as well. Actually, most of _Permanent_Waves_ features such
time signatures ("Freewill", "The Spirit of Radio").
And, of course, "La Villa Strangiato" from _Hemispheres_ has already
been pointed out, but remains one of the most complex pieces Rush has
ever done (every time I listen to it I feel a little more intimidated).
With Rush, it's difficult to find a song that DOESN'T have "unusual"
time signatures. Even "Time Stand Still" has a 7/4 instrumental bridge.
It's one of the many reasons Rush remains my favorite group after many
years of listening.
-EMeyer
--
"Unstable condition--a symptom of life | Eric A. Meyer (ea...@po.CWRU.edu)
In mental and environmental change | Alumnus, Beta Nu of Theta Chi
Atmospheric disturbance--the feverish flux |---------------------------------
Of human interface and interchange-" -N.P. | "What do you think, sirs?"
Enter Scogman
My personal favorite Rush time signatures is in Cygnus X-1
I believe at the end it is 11/8
Chris
--
+ Quick to judge, quick to anger
cs50665.uxa.cso. + Slow to understand.
uiuc.edu + Ignorance and prejudice
+ And fear walk hand in hand.
Robert Herrage
If memory serves me correctly, "Freewill" has several places where it goes
from 6/8 to 7/8 back to 6/8 and then to 8/8. As an example, there is one
measure each of this order of time signatures just prior to "A planet of
play things, we dance on the strings...". I think if you listen real hard
you'll find quite a few time signature changes throughout the song.
"Natural Science" could almost have been subtitled in movements:
I. <water portion at the beginning>
II. Portion beginning with "Wheels within wheels in a spiral array" (or
something like that; &$#(@, now I've got to go back and listen to
it or it will bug me the rest of the day!)
III. Portion that includes "Science, like nature, must also be tamed".
IV. Portion that includes "Tide after tide, will flow and recede...".
If I was to go back and listen to it, I'd probably come up with a few more.
Even divided up as these four movements, each movement contains its own time
signature changes.
"Permanent Waves" is kinda contradictory when I think of time signatures;
they weren't very "permanent" ;)
Rob
Eric A. Meyer
In a previous article, her...@crchh451.bnr.ca (Robert Herrage) says:
> I. <water portion at the beginning>
> II. Portion beginning with "Wheels within wheels in a spiral array" (or
> something like that; &$#(@, now I've got to go back and listen to
> it or it will bug me the rest of the day!)
>III. Portion that includes "Science, like nature, must also be tamed".
> IV. Portion that includes "Tide after tide, will flow and recede...".
"Permanent Waves" is divided into movements. They are:
I. Tide Pools (corresponds to #1 and #2 above)
II. Hyperspace (when the funky "wa-wa" effects start)
III. Permanent Waves (#3 and #4 above)
>"Permanent Waves" is kinda contradictory when I think of time signatures;
>they weren't very "permanent" ;)
I've always thought that, too, but it makes sense in light of the final
verse (which I quoted in a Re: Favorite One-Liners--"Wave after wave...").
KEN MCWATTERS
>In article <60...@gumby.Altos.COM> dea...@altos.Altos.COM (Le Chevalier Blanc) writes:
>>
>>Which Rush song has the most unique time signatures in it?
>
>My personal favorite Rush time signatures is in Cygnus X-1
>I believe at the end it is 11/8
>
>Chris
>
11/8 is used in Losing It also, but it has a somewhat logical "feel" to it,
being able to be subdivided into a 6/8, 5/8 repeating pattern. In Cygnus X-1,
though, it could only be divided into a 4/8, 7/8 pattern. It emphasizes the
maddening pace of the song, because switching from 4 to 7 repetitively is
totally unnatural! This is a brilliant use of time signature; it literally
conveys the mood of someone at the helm of the Rocinante as it begins the
plunge into oblivion!
Ken
" Remembering when first I held the wheel in my own hands
I took the helm so eagerly and sailed for distant lands
But now the sea's too heavy, and I just don't understand
Why must my crew desert me when I need a guiding hand?"
GREEN JOHN CRAIG
time signature changes are. It is not difficult to throw together sections
of music in different time sigs, but it is challenging to make them work
together, especially in a 5:44 (if memory serves which it usually doesn't)
song. I never get the feeling that they are forcing the time sig changes
unlike a few other bands that come to mind. The fact that some of their
odd-time songs (Limelight, Time Stand Still) have thrived on FM radio
attests to the excellent fluid nature of their writing abilities. I was
going to ask whether anyone had heard sub-10 minute songs by ANY band that
contained as many or more time signatures (that work as well).
Ethan Evan Prater
ea...@po.CWRU.Edu (Eric A. Meyer) writes:
> How about "Jacob's Ladder"? It starts out switching between 5/4 and
>6/4 EVERY MEASURE.
section feels like a coherent unit, and the very fact that it "switches" every
measure would seem to me like it's a single 11 beat repeating unit. What do you
think?
Ethan Prater PRA...@Yalevm.YCC.Yale.Edu
MAD Marc MAD Andre MAD Decoste MAD
Talking about time signature, I have a question for the musical hacker:
In a A/B signature, I know that the A is the number of beats in
one bar, but I'm not really sure what the B means...
For examples: What's the difference between a 7/4 and a 7/8 ???
Thank's in advance, and sorry to disturb the non-musicians, but you might
learn something interesting if you are a real RUSH fan... The beat masters..
BYE
MAD
--
Marc-Andre Decoste e-mail: deco...@IRO.umontreal.ca
D.I.R.O., Universite de Montreal Tel: (514) 343-6111 ext 3513
C.P. 6128, Succ. "A", Montreal, FAX: (514) 343-5834
(Quebec), Canada, H3C 3J7,... He bedi, bede, bedoo, that's all folks
MAD Marc MAD Andre MAD Decoste MAD
>Which Rush song has the most time signature changes in it?
>Which Rush song has the most unique time signatures in it?
>Examples of songs that change often are Limelight, Losin' It, and
>The Camera Eye. e.g. Losin' it starts in 5/4, moves to 4/4, back
>to 5/4, 4/4, the solo is in 11/8 and the end of the solo slips into
>6/8. Limelight hops between 4/4, 7/4, 6/8, etc...
>
> -Dave Easter
And don't forget Subdivisions, it goes from 7/8 (or 7/4 ?) to 4/4 and back
in 7/4 and so on... And I think I heard that it was done this way to
enhence the ideas brought by the lyrics ???
Eric A. Meyer
In a previous article, PRA...@YaleVM.YCC.Yale.Edu (Ethan Evan Prater) says:
>In article <1992Jul24....@usenet.ins.cwru.edu>
>ea...@po.CWRU.Edu (Eric A. Meyer) writes:
>
>> How about "Jacob's Ladder"? It starts out switching between 5/4 and
>>6/4 EVERY MEASURE.
>
>I've never seen the chart, but isn't it actually just in 11/4? Each 11 beat
>section feels like a coherent unit, and the very fact that it "switches" every
>measure would seem to me like it's a single 11 beat repeating unit. What do you
>think?
Actually, the music is written 6/4, 5/4, 6/4, 5/4... on the sheet music.
You could argue that this would constitute an 11/4, except I know some music
majors who would jump up and down and scream if you suggested any such time
signature could actually exist (something about traditions, or ettiquette,
or maybe technicalities--hey, I'm only an English grad student, so how should
I know?).
Jay T. Detwiler
<nl>
<bold><excerpt>Excerpts from netnews.alt.music.rush: 27-Jul-92 Re: Time Signat=
ures MAD M. A. M. D. MAD@IRO. (709)</excerpt></bold><nl>
<nl>
<excerpt> In a A/B signature, I know that the A is the number of beats in <n=
l>
one bar, but I'm not really sure what the B means...<nl>
</excerpt><nl>
<excerpt> For examples: What's the difference between a 7/4 and a 7/8 ???<nl=
>
</excerpt><nl>
This is probably going to get answered a million times, but anything to post t=
o this bboard. The bottom number represents the unit that receives the beat. =
Meaning in 7/4, there are seven beats to a measure and a quarter note gets on=
e beat, and in 7/8 an eighth note gets one beat. The only real difference bet=
ween writing something in 7/4 and 7/8 is that you expect a different feel and=
subdivision between the two as between 6/4 and 6/8. <nl>
<nl>
A non-signature person,<nl>
Jay D.<nl>
Eric A. Meyer
In a previous article, deco...@IRO.UMontreal.CA (MAD Marc MAD Andre MAD Decoste MAD) says:
>Talking about time signature, I have a question for the musical hacker:
>
> In a A/B signature, I know that the A is the number of beats in
> one bar, but I'm not really sure what the B means...
>
> For examples: What's the difference between a 7/4 and a 7/8 ???
B refers to the type of note which receives one whole beat. 4 is a
quarter note, 8 is an eighth note. 2 would be a half-note.
7/4 means "7 beats to a measure, a quarter note recieves one beat."
7/8 means "7 beats to a measure, an eighth note receives one beat."
The difference is in the way you write out the music. It's sometimes
easier to use one time signature rather than another, based on the style/
mood of the music being written.
>Thank's in advance, and sorry to disturb the non-musicians, but you might
>learn something interesting if you are a real RUSH fan... The beat masters..
That's "Thanks"...NO APOSTROPHE!!! (Sorry, but I can't STAND apostrophe
abuse.)
Enter Scogman
>
>Talking about time signature, I have a question for the musical hacker:
>
> In a A/B signature, I know that the A is the number of beats in
> one bar, but I'm not really sure what the B means...
>
> For examples: What's the difference between a 7/4 and a 7/8 ???
>
>
Well, notes is music are denoted by number (1-whole note, 2-half note,
4-quarter note, 8-eigth note, etc, etc) The A is the number of
beats in a measure (that was correct) and the B is the type of
note that gets the beat. (in 7/4 time each quarter note gets a beat,
in 7/8 time each 8th note gets the beat....
Ethan Evan Prater
ea...@po.CWRU.Edu (Eric A. Meyer) writes:
>
>
>In a previous article, PRA...@YaleVM.YCC.Yale.Edu (Ethan Evan Prater) says:
>
>>In article <1992Jul24....@usenet.ins.cwru.edu>
>>ea...@po.CWRU.Edu (Eric A. Meyer) writes:
>>
>>> How about "Jacob's Ladder"? It starts out switching between 5/4 and
>>>6/4 EVERY MEASURE.
>>
>>I've never seen the chart, but isn't it actually just in 11/4? Each 11 beat
>>section feels like a coherent unit, and the very fact that it "switches" every
>>measure would seem to me like it's a single 11 beat repeating unit. What do you
>>think?
>
> Actually, the music is written 6/4, 5/4, 6/4, 5/4... on the sheet music.
>You could argue that this would constitute an 11/4, except I know some music
>majors who would jump up and down and scream if you suggested any such time
>signature could actually exist (something about traditions, or ettiquette,
>or maybe technicalities--hey, I'm only an English grad student, so how should
>I know?).
>
> -EMeyer
beat set? The drummer in my high school band always thought that it was in
21/4. What does the chart say? I'm only an undergrad majoring in English, but
people like Stravinsky, Berg, Berlioz, etc. were never constrained by standard
time signatures--there's lot's of 11/4 in Rite of Spring, for example. It
obviously was written the way the sheet music says, but if musical geniuses
like Stravinsky can get away with odd time signatures, why not musical
geniuses like Rush?
Ethan
Eric A. Meyer
In a previous article, PRA...@YaleVM.YCC.Yale.Edu (Ethan Evan Prater) says:
>What about later in the song, when there are three sets of 5 beats, then a six
>beat set? The drummer in my high school band always thought that it was in
>21/4. What does the chart say?
I can't say for certain, as I don't have the music with me, but I seem
to recall that it was simply 5/4 for three measures and then a measure of
6/4. (Again, I may be wrong; it's been a while since I looked at the music
and I didn't memorize every nuance of the chart...just the recorded version.)
>I'm only an undergrad majoring in English, but
>people like Stravinsky, Berg, Berlioz, etc. were never constrained by standard
>time signatures--there's lot's of 11/4 in Rite of Spring, for example. It
>obviously was written the way the sheet music says, but if musical geniuses
>like Stravinsky can get away with odd time signatures, why not musical
>geniuses like Rush?
There is nothing which says Rush CAN'T use 11/4. There isn't really
anything which specifically forbids the existence of such a signature.
It's just that convention runs against it. Besides, there is a very good
reason to use 5/4-6/4 as opposed to 11/4. (Those not interested in a
possibly lengthy discourse on musical conventions may wish to stop now.)
The difference often lies in accenting. Music, when written, implies that
an accent is given to the first note of any given measure unless otherwise
marked. The placement of other accents throughout the measure are dependent
on the number of beats in the measure and what kinds of notes are counted as
one beat. Thus, the accents in the opening measures of "Jacob's Ladder" are
controlled by the placement of measure bars.
For example, 6/4 implies "TA-ta-ta-TA-ta-ta" (TA=accent, ta=unaccented).
The more conventional 4/4 goes "TA-ta-TA-ta". Actually, it's all a bit
more complicated than this, but I don't feel like typing in the better
part of a week's worth of a Music Theory course. Just suffice to say
that the accenting rules are about as hard-and-fast as most English rules
(you know, the ones which have a list of exceptions the length of your
typical Tour de France). And if the author pens in accent marks, all
bets are off.
Now, the music could have been written in 11/4 with accent marks placed
over the relevant notes, but it's a pain in the neck to do so. (Not to
mention a pain in the eyes to read it.)
I realize that all of this may be terribly confusing. Hell, I don't
even quite get all of it, and I have a total of fifteen years of musical
training (seven piano, eight violin, sporadic percussion), and my fiancee
(a music major and fellow Rush fan, with whom I have analyzed quite a few
Rush time signatures by ear alone) couldn't figure out how to explain
it to me concisely. She eventually said, "Oh, just take a Music Theory
course; then it'll make no sense at all."
Sigh.
This is your brain. This is your brain on music theory. Any questions?
KEN MCWATTERS
I agree that Rush succeeds in composing songs that work as a cohesive unit,
regardless of time signature changes. I think that there aren't many bands that
use different time signatures in their songs, because such complication is not
necessary for their musical expression. Of the bands that do, I think there
are two categories: those that are piecing together several riffs that are
musically different, and those that are striving for a "movement" or classical
music feel.
Rush is probably a combination of the two. Geddy has commented that a song
like Red Barchetta was somewhat a combination of riffs, and that they have tried
to write songs that flow more smoothly in later albums. Songs such as Losing It
or Jacob's Ladder attest to their development of the ability to create songs
that have smooth transitions between time signatures.
Of bands that use different time signatures that work as well, I would say
that songs by Kansas like The Pinnacle and Journey from Mariabronn do very well
in 'flowing' among different musical passages. Other songs they have done do
have time changes that sound more forced; I'd say that Rush is the most
consistent band I have heard in producing these type of songs that 'work' well.
To change the subject, about whether 11/4 is/isn't a bogus time signature...
I agree with a previous entry which said that mostly by convention, smaller
signatures like repeating 5/4, 6/4 are used. This is partly because musicians
are often forced to sightread music (abuse, in my opinion!). Something like
11/4 throws people off pretty easily, since in sightreading you have to read
ahead a measure or so of what you're playing.
My Two Cents Worth,
Ken
P.S. Another favorite quote:
"Attention all planets of the Solar Federation:
We have assumed control."
Enter Scogman
>people like Stravinsky, Berg, Berlioz, etc. were never constrained by standard
>time signatures--there's lot's of 11/4 in Rite of Spring, for example. It
I'm sorry for splitting hairs, especially on a net that is not devoted
to classical music, but I'll do it anyway. The people mentioned above
were writing before the modern musical writing methods were developed
(as for as time signatures, and measures, etc, etc) And as far as etiquette
was concerned, only groups of 3/4 and 4/4 wer used in Rites of Spring.
But modern transcribers have no qualms about writing in 11/4 so the
music is listed as such..... Just a minor technicality
Christopher Rywalt, maladjusted cartoonist
Whoa, whoa, waitaminnit. None of the composers mentioned above
were composing before "modern" musical conventions: Berlioz was
of the Romantic period, and composed in the mid-18OOs. Berg wrote
in the very early 2Oth century, and Stravinsky only died in 1971;
I would guess he composed Rite of Spring using "modern" musical
notation. Granted that he may not have used 11/4, but I think the
difference is minimal. It's really just a question of readability.
-- Chris
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=0000BFEF, PSL=03C00009
%TRACE-F-TRACEBACK, symbolic stack dump follows
module name routine name line rel PC abs PC
SIGNATURE main 2226 00000107 0000BFEF
Sir Prize!!!
>Talking about time signature, I have a question for the musical hacker:
> In a A/B signature, I know that the A is the number of beats in
> one bar, but I'm not really sure what the B means...
> For examples: What's the difference between a 7/4 and a 7/8 ???
The bottom number is the type of note that the beat consists of. 7/4 means
seven quarter notes, 7/8 means seven eighth notes, etc.
I'm not *too* sure about this, but it seems as though 7/8, 5/8, 10/8, etc.
are not compound meters, like 3/8, 6/8, 9/8, and 12/8, where there is a
triplet feel. I guess it's pretty hard to get a triplet feel from something
that isn't divisible by 3.....
* * * * * * * * * * ** ** *** **** ****** *********
Jesse Chang (Sir Prize!!!) INTERNET: usl...@mcl.mcl.ucsb.edu *
"-.-- -.-- --.." "Technology - high, on the leading edge of life." -Rush *
* * * * * * * * * ** ** *** **** ****** ********
Commander Brett Maraldo
>In a previous article, PRA...@YaleVM.YCC.Yale.Edu (Ethan Evan Prater) says:
>>ea...@po.CWRU.Edu (Eric A. Meyer) writes:
>>> How about "Jacob's Ladder"? It starts out switching between 5/4 and
>>>6/4 EVERY MEASURE.
>You could argue that this would constitute an 11/4, except I know some music
>majors who would jump up and down and scream if you suggested any such time
>signature could actually exist (something about traditions, or ettiquette,
Actually, in Le Sacre du Printemps (Igor Stravinsky) there is a
section of 11/2 and 11/4. If the music needs to be in what-ever time
signature then so be it. The theme for Tubular Bells, in my opinion, is
15/16. Although 8/8+7/8 makes more numerical sense, the phrasing of the
other instruments is, to my ears, in the 15 beat bar.
Brett Maraldo
Plexus Productions
--
-------- Unit 36 Research ---------
"Alien Technology Today"
bmar...@watserv1.UWaterloo.ca
{uunet!clyde!utai}!watserv1!bmaraldo
Commander Brett Maraldo
>obviously was written the way the sheet music says, but if musical geniuses
>like Stravinsky can get away with odd time signatures, why not musical
>geniuses like Rush?
I wanted to post something like, 'comparing stravinsky to rush???',
but then I thought about it and, I guess, in their own respective generes
each could be considered genius. But, don't you think rush's post-Moving
Pictures material is a little dilluted? I mean, I can see their older work
being considered genius but hardly the stuff after Moving Pictures. Maybe
I am missing something? 'Genius' is a much over used word.
Commander Brett Maraldo
>In article <16831D88...@YaleVM.YCC.Yale.Edu> PRA...@YaleVM.YCC.Yale.Edu (Ethan Evan Prater) writes:
>>people like Stravinsky, Berg, Berlioz, etc. were never constrained by standard
>>time signatures--there's lot's of 11/4 in Rite of Spring, for example. It
>was concerned, only groups of 3/4 and 4/4 wer used in Rites of Spring.
>But modern transcribers have no qualms about writing in 11/4 so the
>music is listed as such..... Just a minor technicality
Ok. This is dead wrong. Stravinsky used a whole mess of time
signatures in The Rite, including 11/4. I have the score. You can write
anything in any time signature as long as you keep the beata in the right
spot. The time signature justs makes it easier to see the phrasing. If
you check _the Rite_ you'll see a masterful use of a lot of different time
signatures. It is modern transcribers who try to simplify _The Rite_ by
keeping to 3/4 and 4/4 thereby making the music unreadable. Again, Stravisky
definitely used 11/4 (and others) in the original score.
Commander Brett Maraldo
> The difference often lies in accenting. Music, when written, implies that
>an accent is given to the first note of any given measure unless otherwise
>marked. The placement of other accents throughout the measure are dependent
>on the number of beats in the measure and what kinds of notes are counted as
>one beat. Thus, the accents in the opening measures of "Jacob's Ladder" are
>controlled by the placement of measure bars.
> For example, 6/4 implies "TA-ta-ta-TA-ta-ta" (TA=accent, ta=unaccented).
>The more conventional 4/4 goes "TA-ta-TA-ta". Actually, it's all a bit
It has more to do with phrasing then accents. For example I can
write something in 4/4 with accents like ta-Ta-Ta-ta or Ta-ta-ta-Ta etc.
The accenting tends to revolve around the phrasing and it is the phrasing
that denotes the time signature. So, if there is a question of 6/4+5/4 vs.
11/4 one must listen to how the music is phased. If a phrase (harmonic
or melodic or even rhythmic) is phrased in two sub-phrases of 6 and 5 then
the compound meter is more relevant. If the music revolves around a longer
11 beat phrase the the simple meter is the ticket. For an example listen
to Mike Oldfield's _Tubular Bells_: The piano theme is definitely 8/8+7/8
but the bass (harmony) and the rest of the instruments play within a 15
beat meter so 15/16 make more sense.
Commander Brett Maraldo
>I'm not *too* sure about this, but it seems as though 7/8, 5/8, 10/8, etc.
>are not compound meters, like 3/8, 6/8, 9/8, and 12/8, where there is a
>triplet feel. I guess it's pretty hard to get a triplet feel from something
>that isn't divisible by 3.....
A compound meter is one that is made up of more than one time
sig, like 3/4+4/4+6/8, etc. The concept of a triplet has nothing to do with
the meter. A triplet is the idea of fitting 3 beats within a single beat.
For example, a quarter note can be divided into 2 eighth notes each having
half the duration of the quarter note. But, if I want to fit 3 eighth notes
in the space of 2 (or 1 quater note) I write a 'triplet'. That is, now
instead of of the single quarter note beat, Ta, being two eighth notes, Ta-Ta,
it is now Ta-Ta-Ta; 3 eighth notes each with the duration of 1/3 of a quarter
note. Note, that the first 'Ta' is the down-beat, so if you sing these make
sure you sing the first note on the beat when your hand hits the table and
the other beats on the up-beat, when you hand is off the table.
This is irrelevant of time signature.
Stuart Miyasato
>In article <uslave.712352623@mcl> usl...@mcl.ucsb.edu (Sir Prize!!!) writes:
>>I'm not *too* sure about this, but it seems as though 7/8, 5/8, 10/8, etc.
>>are not compound meters, like 3/8, 6/8, 9/8, and 12/8, where there is a
>>triplet feel. I guess it's pretty hard to get a triplet feel from something
>>that isn't divisible by 3.....
>
> A compound meter is one that is made up of more than one time
>sig, like 3/4+4/4+6/8, etc. The concept of a triplet has nothing to do with
>the meter.
>
>
>Brett Maraldo
>Plexus Productions
I don't think I agree here. In the music classes I've taken over the
past ten years or so, I've always gotten the impression that 6/8, 9/8,
and 12/8 are to taken with a triplet feel.
Here's how it was explained to me. Essentially, 3/4 and 6/8 should be
similar -- notation-wise, both would have three quarter notes to a
measure. However, I understand it as being 3/4 gets three counts to a
measure, while 6/8 gets *two* counts to a measure, with each eighth
note receiving 1/3 of a count -- i.e. it is a triplet eighth note. The
same holds true for 3/8, 9/8, and 12/8.
If you can get your hands on Rush sheet music, check out the score for
Hemispheres. Many of these sections have 12/8 parts in them -- they
have the 4 beats to a measure feel, but also with each beat having a
triplet feel.
I was also told that 6/8, 9/8, 12/8, etc. time signatures are used for
convenience in notation -- both for the writer and the performer. I
once had a part that was written in 4/4 that drove me crazy trying to
sight-read because it had all these triplets all over the place --
except for maybe four bars, every measure had triplets written. Even
my instructor told me they should have written it in 12/8.
Just my $0.02 worth... If anyone has any corrections to the above,
please do drop me a note or post to the group...
-- Stuart (gim...@leland.stanford.edu)
Gregg Jaeger
> But, don't you think rush's post-Moving
>Pictures material is a little dilluted? I mean, I can see their older work
>being considered genius but hardly the stuff after Moving Pictures.
The `stuff after Moving Pictures' is at least as good as the stuff
before Moving Pictures. No other band could produce a Grace Under
Pressure or a Hold Your Fire!
>'Genius' is a much over used word.
Yes.
Gregg
--
Gregg Jaeger (jae...@buphy.bu.edu) | Tristero? ______/|/| Treestero?
Dept(s). of Physics (and Philosophy) ------------ (_) \|\| Trystero?
Boston University, 590 Commonwealth Ave.,Boston MA 02215 ---------------------
tbea...@vax1.umkc.edu
> but then I thought about it and, I guess, in their own respective generes
> each could be considered genius. But, don't you think rush's post-Moving
> Pictures material is a little dilluted? I mean, I can see their older work
> being considered genius but hardly the stuff after Moving Pictures. Maybe
> I am missing something? 'Genius' is a much over used word.
>
> Brett Maraldo
> Plexus Productions
This thread on Stravinsky is interesting because i recall an
interview with Jon Anderson of the Yes group a few years back where he
said he modeled Yes music after Stravinsky's, in the concepts of several
different movements in one piece -- all with the same melodies.
Debbie Caraway
****
applause; now that was a diplomatic way of saying it. Here, here.
Ethan Evan Prater
>> but then I thought about it and, I guess, in their own respective generes
>> each could be considered genius. But, don't you think rush's post-Moving
>> Pictures material is a little dilluted? I mean, I can see their older work
>> being considered genius but hardly the stuff after Moving Pictures. Maybe
>> I am missing something? 'Genius' is a much over used word.
>>
>> Brett Maraldo
>> Plexus Productions
Rush/Stravinsky thing in the first place in reference to unusual time
signatures. I even semi-agree with the post Moving Pictures question. I think
a better word to describe one of the greatest composers who ever lived along
with the best rock band in existence would be 'master'. Both are certainly
masters at what they do. Besides, quite a bit of progressive 70's music was
influenced by Stravinsky (he died in 1971)--the previous Yes quote demonstrates
that.
So anyway, though IMHO the members of Rush posess musical genius, they really
are not the kind of genius that Stravinsky was. Both are/were the best at what
they do, though.
BTW, what's "Plexus Productions"?
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
"I should sooner be governed by the first / Ethan Evan Prater
two thousand names in the Boston phone / PRA...@YALEVM.YCC.Yale.Edu
directory than by the two thousand faculty /
members of Harvard University." /
-- William F. Buckley, Jr. /
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
fpjes...@gmail.com
> I've been thinking about this for a while and wanted to get use the
> net's vast array of knowledge to answer the question(s):
> Which Rush song has the most time signature changes in it?
> Which Rush song has the most unique time signatures in it?
>
> example, the guitar/bass/drum run at the beginning of YYZ wouldn't
> count, but the intro would).
> Examples of songs that change often are Limelight, Losin' It, and
> The Camera Eye. e.g. Losin' it starts in 5/4, moves to 4/4, back
> to 5/4, 4/4, the solo is in 11/8 and the end of the solo slips into
> 6/8. Limelight hops between 4/4, 7/4, 6/8, etc...
>
> -Dave Easter
>
> David J. Easter ) ...!uunet!altos!deaster | dea...@altos.COM (Honarary Weasel)
> Support Engineer) "Chivalry is not dead, it's just paralyzed from the neck up."
> Altos Computers ) Disclaimer: mine, mine, mine; get, get, get; mine, mine mine!
> "Sadder still to watch it die than never to have known it." -Rush `Losing It`
´The Camera Eye 10/8 then 11/8 then 12/8 then back to 11/8
Matt Ferrari
<fpjes...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:872bae18-6a0a-4459...@googlegroups.com...
>