Jim Hutton vs Mary Austin

[Erica]

Y'all have probably already had this discussion at length. But I wasn't
here to see it, so I'm gonna ask you to go through it one more time, just
for me. Okay? I read Jim Hutton's book about a year ago. And then I read
the FAQ for this newsgroup last month. And now I've just read Freddie's
bio from Laura Jackson. And then I got confused (big news there). Who's
the villain of the Freddie story? Is it Jim, who violated Freddie's
privacy for a book deal, and, according to the FAQ, misrepresented the
facts? Or is it Mary, who apparently kicked Jim, Joe and Phoebe out on
their ears before the dust had even settled. I'd be ready to dismiss Sir
Jim as a weenie whiner except that Phoebe corroborates most of his story
in the Freddie book. Anybody have any insights?

The Goddess

[Paul Gunberg]

I don't think it's black or white. I do think that what Mary did was wrong,
in that they all had no time to find places of their own. I think Mary never
accepted that Freddie was gay. In his death, she could "have" him again by
getting "rid" of the others and having his house.
Gail

[Jackie]

Erica wrote:
>Y'all have probably already had this discussion at length. But I wasn't
>here to see it, so I'm gonna ask you to go through it one more time, just
>for me. Okay? I read Jim Hutton's book about a year ago. And then I read
>the FAQ for this newsgroup last month. And now I've just read Freddie's
>bio from Laura Jackson. And then I got confused (big news there). Who's
>the villain of the Freddie story? Is it Jim, who violated Freddie's
>privacy for a book deal, and, according to the FAQ, misrepresented the
>facts? Or is it Mary, who apparently kicked Jim, Joe and Phoebe out on
>their ears before the dust had even settled. I'd be ready to dismiss Sir
>Jim as a weenie whiner except that Phoebe corroborates most of his story
>in the Freddie book. Anybody have any insights?

My dear Goddess, things are not necessarily so clear cut. I think we
can all be villains and heros at different times. We may not ever know
the truth about what happened between Jim and Mary and Freddie, that
eternal triangle. Perhaps Jim was a little bit possessive? Perhaps
Freddie promised more than he could realistically give in terms of
commitment? Perhaps Mary was considered too "interfering" and clinging
by some? She was there as the friend who Freddie could 'rely' on,
depend on, and who his family seemed to approve of...
I can easily understand how it could all have become such a
complicated tangle. maybe even Freddie turned a blind eye to the
in-fighting that went on around him. It seemed that both Jim and Mary
made demands on Freddie, but Freddie seemed to be the No Demands type.
I don't really know how/if he changed as the illness advanced, it's
difficult to say.
Everyone has a different perspective on the events, and obviously
tells it from their own point of view. However, I can see good in both
Jim and Mary. Both were dear to Freddie, he needed them.
Remember: Mary has never told her side of the story. (Thank
goodness?!)
Perhaps Phoebe (it is Phoebe who's doing the new book isn't it?) will
help to set the record straight.
All in all, I don't think there was a 'bad guy' and a 'good guy' in
Freddie's life, both Jim and Mary were needed by him in different
ways, both made demands, both pissed him off. I think Freddie felt
protective (guilty?) about Mary...
A friend has told me of his friendship with Jim, and how he the band
had always liked him (until JB decided they should cut him off), and I
have also heard about Mary's behaviour first hand...scary stuff
sometimes.
Listen, I really think people who are curious should not leap to
conclusions about what went on. It's difficult I know, but there is a
lot Jim didn't put in that book both about the band and Freddie et al
personally.

Later,
I'm finishing now!
[Got to get my breakfast. What will it be...? Hmmmm, I think just tea
and toast this morning.]

Jackie.

[rOOth]

For a minute there i thought you'd already READ Phoebe's book. In the
Evans/Minns one the epilogue leaves this sort of question up in the air,
but does touch on it; and as David Evans is collaborating with Phoebe on
this new book .... I think you'd have to say something like 'society' or
'audience expectation/prejudice' was the villian - the two worlds
represented are their own entities sort of and I guess both of them have
had to live with certain demons : I wish it would be possible for them
to collaborate on a book together!!!

Erica wrote:

> Who's the villain of the Freddie story? .... Is it Jim, ... Or is it
> Mary, ... Anybody have any insights?
>
> The Goddess

--
--------------------------------------------
Ruth, yeh, hehehe and all that and take care
--------------------------------------------

[Erica]

In article <35a219ed...@news.demon.co.uk>, jac...@saskia.demon.co.uk
wrote:

Thanks for the reply, Jackie. I sometimes forget that these are real
people we are talking about, with all their little complexities. And as a
former journalist, I should remember that no one perspective contains all
of the truth. There's not such thing as a definitive history, or biography
for that matter. You have to read several versions and then draw your own
conclusions. I, too, hope that Phoebe comes out with his own book. He
seems to me to be a sensible person who's perspective I can take
seriously.
Nevertheless, I must say I had assumed that most people on this newsgroup
had a negative opinion of Jim, because Jacky's QMS FAQ seems to offer an
official opinion of his book. Apparently that's not universally the case.
Also, it blows my mind alittle bit that you have some first or second hand
knowledge of these things from people you know. I forget that you live on
the same bloody island that he did. Have you ever gone to see Garden
Lodge?

> Later,
> I'm finishing now!
> [Got to get my breakfast. What will it be...? Hmmmm, I think just tea
> and toast this morning.]
>
> Jackie.

Stop making me hungry, Jackie. It's 1 am here, and I can't make myself
something to eat without waking everyone else up.
The Goddess

[cmmonte...@gmail.com]

After reading his book, it became clear why Freddie passed the bulk of his hard work/success to Mary. Freddie's legacy continues to stand in ways credit to her.
Jim, in my opinion, an aimless, humble, naive, cowardly man would have squandered Freddie's fortune. Left to be taken, enjoyed, and abused by those far more clever and ambitious than him.
Freddie a most generous man, took care of those around him, including Jim. He often demanded more of a commitment from Freddie but for the most part it does not materialize. In my opinion, this relationship would have ended had Freddie not become ill.
After Freddie's death, living conditions were soon set as Jim, Phoebe, and Joe proved they could not be trusted with the security of Garden Lodge. Still, they did well as Freddie left half a million to each. Not to mention the endless elaborate gifts, including houses, and car.

[supermi...@gmail.com]

Freddie loved both Jim and Mary! Why are people continuing to debate this crap. Both gave the love that Freddie needed during his lifetime and THEY were there till the end! Most hate on Jim a book and because he was gay. There are 1,000 of books out there about Freddie either from people who knew him or not. Heck, his ex David Minns wrote a book similar to Hutton's and yet people say nothing to him! When it comes to Mary it seems it's most about her attitude after Freddie's death. Now many have confirmed (mostly his close friends/family) and I don't judge because,well,they WERE there. Fans also say she was also disrespectful as well (eg. A person only said hi to her and she stuck up the middle finger). Honestly if she chose to be bitter than that's on her. I'm glad at least Jim and Phoebe tried to have contact with her to not end on bad terms. So yeah, cut this BS and only focus on Queen. Stream Freddie's song "Time" on YouTube or BoRhap since it hit a billion already, geez!

[Classic Movie Baby]

On Tuesday, July 7, 1998 at 3:00:00 AM UTC-4, Jackie wrote:
> Erica wrote:
> >Y'all have probably already had this discussion at length. But I wasn't
> >here to see it, so I'm gonna ask you to go through it one more time, just
> >for me. Okay? I read Jim Hutton's book about a year ago. And then I read
> >the FAQ for this newsgroup last month. And now I've just read Freddie's

> >bio from Laura Jackson. And then I got confused (big news there). Who's

> >the villain of the Freddie story? Is it Jim, who violated Freddie's
> >privacy for a book deal, and, according to the FAQ, misrepresented the
> >facts? Or is it Mary, who apparently kicked Jim, Joe and Phoebe out on
> >their ears before the dust had even settled. I'd be ready to dismiss Sir
> >Jim as a weenie whiner except that Phoebe corroborates most of his story
> >in the Freddie book. Anybody have any insights?

> Later,
> I'm finishing now!
> [Got to get my breakfast. What will it be...? Hmmmm, I think just tea
> and toast this morning.]
> Jackie.

Mary wrote a book published on November 23, 2001, so that's probably her side of the story.

The info below is from Amazon, but there is no image for the book.

Freddie and Mary - Hardcover – November 23, 2001 by Mary Austin (Author)
Out of Print--Limited Availability

There are no copies of it that I can find. There's no ebook, etc. I've been searching on Internet Archive but cannot locate it. I will continue to search for it.