Why did Tony Kaye originally leave Yes?
Dennis Brennan
(and now for a REAL post, thank you Queensryche fan for giving me something
to reply to so I can post):
Pete Banks left Yes and Steve Howe joined. Okay.
Then, after _The Yes Album_ Tony Kaye left the band and Rick Wakeman joined.
In the book of "Yes History" that comes with the YesYears box set, however,
Bill Bruford claims to have been the first person to quit Yes. I guess that
means that Pete and Tony were kicked out. Is that true? Did Tony get kicked
out before Rick volunteered or did they boot him to give Rick room?
(The first thread on this newsgroup)
Glad we got our own newsgroup now, thanks very much to all who fought for it.
Dennis Brennan
The Master
Tony Kaye was rightfully kicked out of Yes. The main reason
was that he refused to use the new keyboards that were coming out at
the time, mainly the mellotron and the moog. Kaye prefered to stick
to the Hammond and the piano. He was also kicked out because he tended
to play only with his right hand, while waving the left in the air.
He STILL does this. Finally, he seemed to be obsessed with glissandos.
STILL is. I guess a glissando sounds like a scale if you can't play
one fast like Wakeman :-)
Dave White
--
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
| Dave White | Lakeshore Cryotronics |
| Software Engineer | 64 E Walnut Street |
|__w...@geo2s.mps.ohio-state.edu___|__Westerville, Ohio 43215_____________|
Michael Lamoureux
> Tony Kaye was rightfully kicked out of Yes. The main reason
> was that he refused to use the new keyboards that were coming out at
> the time, mainly the mellotron and the moog. Kaye prefered to stick
> to the Hammond and the piano. He was also kicked out because he tended
> to play only with his right hand, while waving the left in the air.
> He STILL does this. Finally, he seemed to be obsessed with glissandos.
> STILL is. I guess a glissando sounds like a scale if you can't play
> one fast like Wakeman :-)
Dave, imagine finding you here ;-)
I'd just like to point out that Rick also tends to stress use of his
right hand. I have an excellent video of a live performance he did in
England a few years back, and it's pretty obvious from watching him
play that he sacrificed developing his left hand for his right hand.
He tends to play mostly chords with his left hand. All the really
impressive stuff he plays is with his right hand (and often while he's
doing almost nothing with his left hand). And, yes, he's pretty damn
fast with his right hand.
Not to say that he isn't a great keyboardist, and certainly
not to put Tony in ANY positive light. I think Tony should be the
keyboardist in some pop-metal band ;-)
Michael
lam...@mitre.org
Gibraltar Moderator
Scott McMahan -- Genesis mailing list owner
People shouldn't expect Tony Kaye to be rick wakeman!
Of course no one can do what Rick does -- rick is a
*fantastic* keyboard player who can do things no one else can do...
No one can measure up to him. (well, I haven't heard emerson yet :))
Kaye just goes in different directions than Wakeman, and has a totally
different style. People give him too hard of a time!
Listen to Hearts, or 90125 live's I've Seen All Good People... Kaye has
done some really good things! His SI solo is great! Kaye shapes and layers
sound, and is an organist (not a classical pianist).
Well, at least he has *one* fan :)
Scott
Ralph Marrone
Rumor has it that Pete Banks went bonkers ala S. Barret and that Tony Kaye
was booted out during the Fragile sessions because he refused to play any
of the assorted electronic keyboards.
Regards,
rafem
I am not a Merry man.
Let me put it this way. If you came upon someone like Rick Wakeman who
could be your next keyboardist, who would you choose?
*******************************************************************************
"Groovy!" - Ash "Evil Dead II : Dead By Dawn" (1987)
*******************************************************************************
"Fans are interesting things. Rush fans just can't comprehend why the
rest of the world doesn't like Rush. REM fans consider the rest of the world
beneath their social level to notice. Kate Bush fans love the rest of the
world, and the world loves them, but spend long nights plotting to knife
one another." --Richard Darwin
Richard Darwin #33, "Gradenza"
*******************************************************************************
v129j6ed@ubvms
The KaTeFan(tm)
John D'Elia
|> In article <1992May9.1...@cs.unca.edu> mcm...@cs.unca.edu (Scott McMahan -- Genesis mailing list owner) writes:
|> >People shouldn't expect Tony Kaye to be rick wakeman!
|>
|>
absolutely none.
|> >sound, and is an organist (not a classical pianist).
actually, he's a playboy who never practiced enough.
|> ... memorable "progressive" artist, he wouldn't be able to cut it. Imagine
|> Kaye doing a tune like Gates of Delirium. Naahhh.
...or (picture this) the beginning of Sound Chaser ("uh...15/8 time?
is that like 4/4 only with the bottom number doubled and the top number
multiplied by...uh..uh...awww, come on fellas, help me out on this one...")
Scott McMahan -- Genesis mailing list owner
j...@rabid.NoSubdomain.NoDomain (John D'Elia) writes:
:...or (picture this) the beginning of Sound Chaser ("uh...15/8 time?
:is that like 4/4 only with the bottom number doubled and the top number
:multiplied by...uh..uh...awww, come on fellas, help me out on this one...")
Pure slander with no basis in fact!
If you think Kaye can't handle complex time signatures, you
need to sit down and very carefully listen to Changes on 90125
and Hearts from the same album.
Changes has parts in 17/8, I believe, and Hearts something equally
weird.
Scott
John D'Elia
|> Not that this garbage deserves an answer, but...
|> j...@rabid.NoSubdomain.NoDomain (John D'Elia) writes:
|>
|> :...or (picture this) the beginning of Sound Chaser ("uh...15/8 time?
|> :is that like 4/4 only with the bottom number doubled and the top number
|> :multiplied by...uh..uh...awww, come on fellas, help me out on this one...")
|>
|> Pure slander with no basis in fact!
|>
|> If you think Kaye can't handle complex time signatures, you
|> need to sit down and very carefully listen to Changes on 90125
|> and Hearts from the same album.
yes, but was it real or memorex? i wouldn't be at all surprised if the parts
were sequenced, esp. the Changes intro, since it's doubtful Tony could have
played them. when i saw them do Changes live, during the intro Kaye had a
cigarette in his left hand and he kept taking his right hand off the keyboard
and waving to some girls in the front row. He looked really cool, but for
the life of me i couldn't figure out how the part was being played. perhaps
Rick was covering for him or...uh...
ok, ok, i'm getting carried away...just so i don't get sued for slander,
i'll admit i made that up. i guess my real problem with Kaye is rooted in
the fact that, in the old days, he *was* basically just an organ player who
apparently had no desire to explore alternative sounds, and i've always
hated the sounds he got on the early albums. to me, the combination of a
bad mix and Kaye's keyboards (parts and sound) ruined the Yes album. don't
get me wrong, the songs are great, but the Yessongs (live) versions with
Wakeman playing are much more electric and celestial sounding, i.e. much
more Yes.
Andrew Kephart
Not to diminish Tony's playing any (there's enough of that around here already), but
I don't think you could really use the odd meter parts from 90125 as an example of how
Tony "can handle complex time signatures", since he's just playing the same riff
repeatedly (both hands the same part, even).
Incidentally, I only consider 90125 to be slightly a YES album, since the whole album
is really a Trevor Rabin album with Squire, White, and Kaye diddling with
their parts, and Jon playing with lyrics here and there.
Miss. Carolyn A. Mayr (CADIG STAFF) <carolyn@usna.navy.mil>
>In article <1992May13.1...@cs.unca.edu>, mcm...@cs.unca.edu (Scott McMahan -- Genesis mailing list owner) writes:
>|>
>|> If you think Kaye can't handle complex time signatures, you
>|> need to sit down and very carefully listen to Changes on 90125
>|> and Hearts from the same album.
>
>yes, but was it real or memorex? i wouldn't be at all surprised if the parts
>were sequenced, esp. the Changes intro, since it's doubtful Tony could have
>played them. when i saw them do Changes live, during the intro Kaye had a
>cigarette in his left hand and he kept taking his right hand off the keyboard
>and waving to some girls in the front row. He looked really cool, but for
>the life of me i couldn't figure out how the part was being played. perhaps
>Rick was covering for him or...uh...
I posted the following information not too long ago in a different newsgroup:
I saw 90125 at the Capital Center in Maryland and I thought Tony Kaye was
alot of flash. During a Keith Emerson interview, Keith spilled the
beans ("Oops, I guess I shouldn't have said that") by accident when he
revealed that during the 90125 tour Tony Kaye had a "hidden" keyboardist
under the stage playing along with him during the show. As a
musician, I am appalled that the hidden keyboardist didn't even get
any credit. I lost alot of respect for Tony Kaye when I heard about it.
Carolyn Mayr
PS - I love this new newsgroup!
Scott McMahan -- Genesis mailing list owner
A hidden musician under the stage, sequencers, a total & complete
looser.
Oh, well. Out of all the millions of keyboard players in the world, how come
Squire & White got *HIM* for Cinema?
Scott
Ralph Marrone
>I posted the following information not too long ago in a different newsgroup:
>
>I saw 90125 at the Capital Center in Maryland and I thought Tony Kaye was
>alot of flash. During a Keith Emerson interview, Keith spilled the
>beans ("Oops, I guess I shouldn't have said that") by accident when he
>revealed that during the 90125 tour Tony Kaye had a "hidden" keyboardist
>under the stage playing along with him during the show. As a
>musician, I am appalled that the hidden keyboardist didn't even get
>any credit. I lost alot of respect for Tony Kaye when I heard about it.
>
> Carolyn Mayr
>
>PS - I love this new newsgroup!
If Emerson wasn't lying, then I'm equally appalled; and as much as I hate
to say it, I'm also upset that YES, my all time favorite, would condone such
"Milli Vanilli" legerdemain.
Regards,
rafem
John D'Elia
John
My name is Brian Rost
In article <1992May13.1...@walter.bellcore.com>, j...@rabid.NoSubdomain.NoDomain (John D'Elia) writes...
>to me, the combination of a
>bad mix and Kaye's keyboards (parts and sound) ruined the Yes album.
I must be in the minority because I like Kaye more than Wakeman. Sometimes
less is more.
BTW, who knows why if Kaye was about to be bounced, he got the *largest*
picture on the inner sleeve of the Yes Album????
Brian Rost @rgb.enet.dec.com
****************************************************
* *
* The above does not reflect the opinions of *
* my employer. *
* *
* If music is outlawed, only outlaws will be *
* musicians. *
* *
****************************************************
Scott McMahan -- Genesis mailing list owner
: I must be in the minority because I like Kaye more than Wakeman. Sometimes
: less is more.
I generally agree less is more, but there's a point where it gets
USEless to keep trying to defend the guy.
No one can get close to Rick for pure fast & great playing, but
Kaye has had his moments.
Most of which were either sequenced or played by someone else,
as we're finding out.
Did Kaye play "SI", his solo?!? Or did someone else?
(I love that droning chord underneath all of it... he probably
rested his left hand on the right notes & left it, but it
really works.)
: BTW, who knows why if Kaye was about to be bounced, he got the *largest*
: picture on the inner sleeve of the Yes Album????
Probably just an artistic-type decision.
They wanted an impressive picture. Good photography, you have to admit.
I bet the keyboard he's playing isn't even turned on. :)
Scott
Mark Crimson Friedman
>If Emerson wasn't lying, then I'm equally appalled; and as much as I hate
>to say it, I'm also upset that YES, my all time favorite, would condone such
>"Milli Vanilli" legerdemain.
Actually "MIDI-Vanilli"(tm) would be more appropriate. Maybe he could
get a gig with Janet Jackson... :-)
Yeah, I loved Kaye's metallic-fabric jacket at the Dayton gig: after
all, animals and simpletons are attracted to shiny objects! He looked
really studly in it...NOT! He had no shirt on underneath, so his gut
was just hangin' out there. Ahhh, what a tangled web we weave when
old musicians act like the young fools they used to be...
I just wish Earthworks was more lucrative so Bruford wouldn't have to
hang around with those losers. But, like Jeff Berlin says, he's gotta
pay the rent somehow...
- Klone Crimson
--
+----====>>>))) Mark Friedman is frie...@cis.ohio-state.edu (((<<<====----+
| "There is nothing former | "If you put a hungry ferret in your |
| about King Crimson." | trousers, he'll run around..." |
| - Robert Fripp, 5/11/90 | - Nigel Tufnel (Spinal Tap) |
William Spencer
> During a Keith Emerson interview, Keith spilled the
>beans ("Oops, I guess I shouldn't have said that") by accident when he
>revealed that during the 90125 tour Tony Kaye had a "hidden" keyboardist
>under the stage playing along with him during the show. As a
>musician, I am appalled that the hidden keyboardist didn't even get
>any credit. I lost alot of respect for Tony Kaye when I heard about it.
Wow, so do I lose respect. I thought he triggered sequencers and Wakeman
samples himself! (I could see from the far end of the Capitol Centre that he
couldn't possibly be playing the solo on Roundabout.)
I also thought Kaye's solo was the best thing all night however. When the
electric sound combined with the laser light it was, well, electric. Guess he
might have had something to do with it, mebbe not...
BIll s
gary l. schroeder
>mcm...@cs.unca.edu (Scott McMahan -- Genesis mailing list owner) writes:
[discussion of why T. Kaye isn't a phenomenal keyboardist deleted...]
> Incidentally, I only consider 90125 to be slightly a YES album, since the whole album
>is really a Trevor Rabin album with Squire, White, and Kaye diddling with
>their parts, and Jon playing with lyrics here and there.
Hmm. Isn't that what any Yes album is if you replace "Rabin" with
"Howe" in that sentence? I've heard solo Trevor stuff, and while he
certainly set the tone for 90125, the influences of the others are very
strong, and not so incidental as you seem to think. Tell me that you
don't consider the lyrics on 90125 to be Anderson all the way, in the
classic Yes tradition. "Charge the common ground/ 'round and 'round/
were livin in gravity/shape how we shape so hard/how we love so long/when
we raech, we
believe in eternity/hold on" (pardon the paraphrasing, I don't have the
lyrics in front of me).
--
--------------
Gary Schroeder
schr...@bnlux1.bnl.gov
Brookhaven National Laboratory "Home of the Big BNL Burger."
ADY (G. Andrew Kephart)
>>is really a Trevor Rabin album with Squire, White, and Kaye diddling with
>>their parts, and Jon playing with lyrics here and there.
>Hmm. Isn't that what any Yes album is if you replace "Rabin" with
>"Howe" in that sentence? I've heard solo Trevor stuff, and while he
>certainly set the tone for 90125, the influences of the others are very
>strong, and not so incidental as you seem to think. Tell me that you
>don't consider the lyrics on 90125 to be Anderson all the way, in the
>classic Yes tradition. "Charge the common ground/ 'round and 'round/
>were livin in gravity/shape how we shape so hard/how we love so long/when
>we raech, we
>believe in eternity/hold on" (pardon the paraphrasing, I don't have the
>lyrics in front of me).
>--
>--------------
>Gary Schroeder
>schr...@bnlux1.bnl.gov
>Brookhaven National Laboratory "Home of the Big BNL Burger."
Actually, no...most of the other Yes albums were written by Yes at the
time, either by several members or a single member (a la Fragile), but when
Trevor Rabin was asked to join, he already had written most of the songs that
ended up on 90125, and it was just left to each of Kaye, Squire, and White to
make their parts sound like them. 90125 wasn't even going to be a Yes album
until it was nearly finished, and Jon heard the tapes, immediately deciding
that he should sing on it. Before Jon stepped back into the picture, they
were calling themselves "cinema", (note that the only song Jon isn't on is
called ______.
So if you base your judgement on performance, then yes, 90125 is a Yes
album, and I will certainly agree that those are Jon lyrics in places....
and there is no doubt that on the cover it is a Yes album...but, to me, it's
just like they're doing covers of Rabin tunes...
Scott McMahan -- Genesis mailing list owner
: Trevor Rabin was asked to join, he already had written most of the songs that
: ended up on 90125, and it was just left to each of Kaye, Squire, and White to
: make their parts sound like them. 90125 wasn't even going to be a Yes album
: until it was nearly finished, and Jon heard the tapes, immediately deciding
: that he should sing on it.
What about all the other songs Cinema did that weren't on 90125 (Open the
Door and all the others)? I think Jon had more input than singing Trevor's
songs. Our Song sounds like it came off Animation to me.
: Before Jon stepped back into the picture, they
: were calling themselves "cinema", (note that the only song Jon isn't on is
: called ______.
Note the only song without vocals is also called ______. :)
: So if you base your judgement on performance, then yes, 90125 is a Yes
: album, and I will certainly agree that those are Jon lyrics in places....
: and there is no doubt that on the cover it is a Yes album...but, to me, it's
: just like they're doing covers of Rabin tunes...
It isn't that clear cut to me.
I hear a lot of Jon in places. Sure the power rockers like
Make it Easy and Owner are pure Trevor, but some of the other songs
sound much more like a group to me.
Scott
--
We'll be waiting for the night we'll be waiting for the night to come...
90125
Erland Sommarskog
>Let me put it this way. If you came upon someone like Rick Wakeman who
>could be your next keyboardist, who would you choose?
The other guy.
--
Erland Sommarskog - ENEA Data, Stockholm - som...@enea.se
raimondom...@gmail.com
Dex
> Ok
>
He was sacked by the band.
The group wanted to try different sounds and he refused to play anything
other than the Hammond organ and piano.
dak...@gmail.com
antar....@gmail.com
jon lord being the lord of hammond, used moog and ring modulator for space truckin, but tony didnt bother to play synth in starship trooper.
in the 80s era, most studio keyboards parts were handled by trevor horn and trevor rabin.
for live, they had to take an offstage keyboardist, who never got credit, to supplement kaye as he couldnt play wakeman, moraz or downes pieces.
how many more reason do u need for him to b kicked out?
pepar...@gmail.com
domoo...@gmail.com
cbmr...@gmail.com
You don't think Kay can shred? listen to the Roundabout solo at 2:22:53 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j8baWC60MJc&t=4206s) and on the official 9012Live DVD (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fMfckgq4shY). You can see Rabin, Squire, and White reveling in how everything is gelling and how tight the music sounds during the Hammond solo. Kaye is using a sample for the organ, but it sounds remarkably good, perhaps even better than the original recorded sound.
cbmr...@gmail.com
Julian Stevens
On Thursday, September 20, 2018 at 2:40:16 PM UTC-7, domoo...@gmail.com wrote:
On Wednesday, May 13, 1992 at 1:51:37 PM UTC-5, John D'Elia wrote:
In article <1992May13.1...@cs.unca.edu>, mcm...@cs.unca.edu (Scott McMahan -- Genesis mailing list owner) writes:
Not that this garbage deserves an answer, but... j...@rabid.NoSubdomain.NoDomain (John D'Elia) writes:
Pure slander with no basis in fact! If you think Kaye can't handle complex time signatures, you need to sit down and very carefully listen to Changes on 90125 and Hearts from the same album. Yes, but was it real or memorex? i wouldn't be at all surprised if the parts were sequenced, esp. the Changes intro, since it's doubtful Tony could have played them. when i saw them do Changes live, during the intro Kaye had a cigarette in his left hand and he kept taking his right hand off the keyboard and waving to some girls in the front row. He looked really cool, but for the life of me i couldn't figure out how the part was being played. perhaps Rick was covering for him or...uh... ok, ok, i'm getting carried away...just so i don't get sued for slander, I'll admit i made that up. i guess my real problem with Kaye is rooted in the fact that, in the old days, he *was* basically just an organ player who apparently had no desire to explore alternative sounds, and i've always hated the sounds he got on the early albums. to me, the combination of a bad mix and Kaye's keyboards (parts and sound) ruined the Yes album. Don't get me wrong, the songs are great, but the Yessongs (live) versions with Wakeman playing are much more electric and celestial sounding, i.e. much more Yes.
Changes has parts in 17/8, I believe, and Hearts something equally weird.
Scott
My teacher in audio production school told me Kaye pretended to play live in the 80s tours and had a different key player under the stage actually playing. Idk I love the first couple yes albums so while waken is clearly better, Kaye did some amazing stuff in their first 3 albums. Live footage of Tony Kaye performing an hour long set of Yes material from all eras (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J8xkonlAu8Y). He's clearly playing all the parts himself; the camera focuses on his hands and you can clearly see him playing all the riffs, not activating sequencers. He plays both Wakeman and Moraz parts.