A book

[BarrettAll]

The answer is an idea, in a book.

[a_rod_777]

On Thursday, September 30, 2021 at 6:23:40 PM UTC-6, BarrettAll wrote:
> The answer is an idea, in a book.

Yep... the Book of Life...

[a_rod_777]

The QR code points to Human Use Of Human Beings .pdf

https://monoskop.org/images/9/90/Wiener_Norbert_The_Human_Use_of_Human_Beings_1950.pdf

"The Human Use of Human Beings is a book by Norbert Wiener, the founding thinker of cybernetics theory and an influential advocate of automation; it was first published in 1950 and revised in 1954. The text argues for the benefits of automation to society; it analyzes the meaning of productive communication and discusses ways for humans and machines to cooperate, with the potential to amplify human power and release people from the repetitive drudgery of manual labor, in favor of more creative pursuits in knowledge work and the arts. The risk that such changes might harm society (through dehumanization or subordination of our species) is explored, and suggestions are offered on how to avoid such risk."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Human_Use_of_Human_Beings

[a_rod_777]

"a sequence of events in time which, though in itself has a certain contingency, strives to hold back nature's tendency toward disorder by adjusting its parts to various purposive ends"

[a_rod_777]

"Machines, in Wiener's opinion, are meant to interact harmoniously with humanity and provide respite from the industrial trap we have made for ourselves. Wiener describes the automaton as inherently necessary to humanity's societal evolution. People could be free to expand their minds, pursue artistic careers, while automatons take over assembly line production to create necessary commodities. These machines must be "used for the benefit of man, for increasing his leisure and enriching his spiritual life, rather than merely for profits and the worship of the machine as a new brazen calf""

[a_rod_777]

"2 THE HUMAN USE OF HUMAN BEINGS
The purpose of this book is both to explain the potentiali-
ties of the machine in fields which up to now have been
taken to be purely human, and to warn against the dangers
of a purely selfish exploitation of these possibilities in a
world in which to hum:m beings, human things are all-
important.
That we shall have to change many details of our mode of
life in the face of the new machines is certain; but these
machines are secondary in all matters of value that concern
us to the proper evaluation of human beings for their own
sake and to their employment as human beings, and not as
second-rate surrogates for possible machines of the future.
The message of this book as well as its title is the human use
of human beings."

[E. Nygma]

This can't be your first time reading it, can it?

The Publius Enigma is/was itself, intentionally or unintentionally, a perfect illustration of cybernetics in action. Message, receipt, acknowledgment, response. Command, action. Query, answer. Control.

"Listen, read, think, communicate" is the exact same order of operations as a cybernetic feedback loop. It's also LRTC, which is CTRL backwards.

Douglas Adams in particular was fairly preoccupied with the notion of computers as a cybernetic extension of ourselves, which they are.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1iAJPoc23-M

[a_rod_777]

I have read excerpts, reviews, analysis, etc... and I was a little intimidated, thinking it was an extremely technical book that I would not comprehend nor resonate with. I also thought it was a very long read, so I never sat down and read it from start to finish.

I do wish I had read it much sooner as it was completely the opposite of what I thought it would be. It was very personable and dumbed down for less intelligent people like me. Not only did it resonate with me on a deep level, but I found it extremely relevant to modern culture and especially the challenges we face with modern digital technology and the problems of quantum computing (from my basic layman's perspective).

I agree with your analysis 100% and did even before I read this book. Reality itself is a form of energy/information exchange and this fundamental principle of the operations of time/space is the backbone of all conscious experience.

I would also like to note the idea that time/space is an illusion of perception created by our ,limited abilities to perceive the vast amount of information present in the "now". If we were to experience reality in a more pure form of totality, I believe time/space would appear very different with past, present and future all bundled up into a simultaneous "equation" for lack of a better term, written out from start to finish./ With that said I would also interject that this "equuation" would include every possible variable/scenerio capable within the Quantum Singularity of the multi-reality experience.

Like a type of video game where very possible scenerio is written into the code but is not actualized until the observer chooses that particular route or vector of conscious experience. The video game is a very rudimentary and rough analogy but I believe it works and is similar tot he grand design, precisely because it is based on the same set of rules which govern our known reality. 1's and 0s / + and - charge, choice, information/coding, observer/observed creating experience.

I have stated many times in my threads, my theory that if an advanced race introduced humanity to the concept of computers, perhaps it was their way of introducing us to the fundamentals of reality from a very basic grade of learning.

For instance if you want to teach a toddler how to play piano, you do not give them a grand piano to learn on... you start by giving them a toy piano with only a few bars or notes to begin discovering the basics. As the toddler grows and learns the mechanics and basics of frequency, intuitively, you gradually provide them with bigger and better models until one day they obtain the grand piano and can play at an expert level, creating symphonies and harmonies at an almost superhuman level.

Anyway, thanks for the reply. Good to hear from you E.
:)

[E. Nygma]

I must be even more less intelligent since most of the book at the time read like stereo instructions to me. I may have to read it again, seeing as it's pretty short anyway. I did get some good takeaways, like the quote about everyone being whirlpools in an endless river...

The experiment with the robots who have blinking lights and are either attracted to or repulsed by lights resulting in emergent behavior patterns is what really got me.

Speaking of the possibility of being in a video game, and I may have posted this before...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arbitrary_code_execution

The most famous examples involve Super Mario Bros. 3, where playing the game in a certain way causes the memory to fill up with executable code, which is then run, producing unintended results. If life is a simulation, this could be the key to hacking the program from within.

[a_rod_777]

Nice!

People are floating the idea of life being like a video game but I think of it more as computers are rudimentary models of life which is why the ideas are so compatible.

I have stated this hypothetical scenerio numerous times before but allow me to re-iterate;
There is a conspiracy theory that Aliens gave humans certain technologies, whether through a Trojan horse like experiment where they faked a crash landing at Roswell or through an outright gift exchange for cooperation from US presidents. Makes no difference either way to the basic premise of what I propose.

When you give a child a musical instrument to learn, let's say a piano, you do not start out by giving them a grand piano to learn on.
you give them a TOY first and let them learn the basics. And then as the child progresses, you gradually introduce newer, better and more complex models until the child at last has grown into an adult and is ready for the final experience of composing on a grand piano.

Perhaps that is what computers are? A toy that models reality so we can begin to learn the basic mechanics of how reality unfolds in the mind?
Positive and Negative charges are mirrored in the 1's and 0's of computer code. We have information in a Singular timeless state, where all possibilities exist simultaneously, past, present and future and they are not actualized "on screen" until an Observer is introduced to have the experience. There are ways to "hack" the code and bend the rules but ultimately the basic foundation of the games language cannot be circumvented without re-inventing the code.

Stuff like that...
Anyway it is an interesting theory that computers are based on life and not the other way around.
As far as being in a simulation, that is already 100% verified as our sense merely deliver information to our brains which then INTERPRET the signals and translate them into a holographic reality which most likely is a very rough interpretation/simulation of the actual reality that is out there since we only pick up a minute fraction of the information available to us at any given moment.

That is literally the definition of a simulation.
"the imitative representation of the functioning of one system or process by means of the functioning of another"

Not to sound pompous (well maybe a little) but I did say this many years ago in my previous thread about the revelation of Pink Floyd's Publius Aenigma.

[E. Nygma]

> Perhaps that is what computers are? A toy that models reality so we can begin to learn the basic mechanics of how reality unfolds in the mind?

The history of computing is highly traceable and there was no singular event that changed the paradigm in any inexplicable way that needs attribution to a higher power. Modern iterations child-trees of mechanical computation are definitely not a gift from aliens. I can't however, dismiss the whole "ancient aliens" theory with as much confidence.

> Anyway it is an interesting theory that computers are based on life

As far as I know, computers are based on mechanical calculation.

I won't dispute the idea that actual reality is not the 3-D space we perceive it to be. "Reality" for us could be bits in a higher paradigm computer...

I definitely don't want to feel like I'm arguing with you too much. That's had negative consequences for our communication in the past, and I think you're being much more reasonable these days in how you express yourself. I definitely don't want to shut down your train of thought, even though I will almost certainly occasionally offer objections. If we continue to converse. And I guess I hope we do, as we once did.

[HumbleBob2]

fucken crazy talk eric

[E. Nygma]

> fucken crazy talk eric

The mere fact that animals can manipulate the environment around them (air or water) to communicate is what's fucken crazy. And here we do it by drawing digital lines in digital sand.

[HumbleBob2]

On Thursday, November 9, 2023 at 4:30:27 PM UTC+11, E. Nygma wrote:
> > fucken crazy talk eric
>
> The mere fact that animals can manipulate the environment around them (air or water) to communicate is what's fucken crazy. And here we do it by drawing digital lines in digital sand.

idiot

[a_rod_777]

Believe it or not I actually welcome your arguments these days. It helps to keep me grounded :)
If this is the end of our conversations, I will genuinely miss them and you. I hope you continue in your creative endeavors regardless of recognition of obstacles like funding and technical difficulties. I think you have a lot of talent and I think the world needs more people like you who have initiative to follow their dreams.

With the sentimental shit out of the way let me offer a rebuttal!
If you cannot dismiss the idea of ancient aliens ( I remember a time on the old publiusenigma forum when I would talk about this before it was mainstream and I was just about criticized off the board) then how can you so readily dismiss the idea that our modern day computers were not somehow inspired by these advanced intelligence? Surely these ancient aliens had a form of technology that was akin to our modern day computers? Perhaps somewhere along the way this technology is what inspired the binary transistor ON/OFF computer language model?

Now, for old time sake, tell me I am bat shit crazy and my woo woo bullshit is pure none sense poppycock!
Just once more for old time's sake friend ;)

[a_rod_777]

Oh almost forgot

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