Does Peter Gabriel suffer from schizophrenia?

Gary Best

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Mar 19, 2002, 5:59:45 PM3/19/02

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Let's have a go, and try and clear up some of the crap...

In article <enef9ug3qm72dm3an...@4ax.com>, Phinny
<pna...@worldnetREMOVETHIS.att.net> writes
>This is an account of a thread on alt.schizophrenia. Since I am a big
>Peter Gabriel fan, as well as an artist and sufferer of
>schizoaffective disorder (which is a combination of the symptoms of
>bipolar and schizophrenia) I thought I would post an account of the
>thread here. I've avoided cross-posting to avoid flame-wars.

Appreciated!

[general snipping]

>>"Phinny" <pna...@worldnetREMOVETHIS.att.net> wrote in message
>>news:l48d9uoi6jglh9g41...@4ax.com...
>>> I kind of suspect musician Peter Gabriel.
>>>
>>> There has been conflicting reports that he was/is 'bipolar' and also
>>> conflicting reports that he was institutionalized. Certainly songs
>>> like 'Wallflower' (that talks of doctors in their clean white coats
>>> and 'the talking room') and 'Live a Normal Life' ("It's nice here with
>>> a view of the trees / eating with a spoon / They don't give you
>>> knives") (you can download these and listen to them using Morpheus)
>>> seem to be rather about someone who has been institutionalized in a
>>> mental hospital.

For a start, "Wallflower" is about a prisoner of conscience (it's
closely identified with Amnesty International), so the above is
nonsense.

That being said - "Lead A Normal Life" sounds like it's about someone
being institutionalised - although it's actually more about conformity
than anything else.

Peter also wrote a song about a burglar - does that mean he used to be
one?

>>> His early work with Genesis became more and more bizarre over the
>>> years, culminating in the rock opera 'The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway'
>>> which was full of intense surreal hallucinatory imagery and who's
>>> overall theme seemed to be a disconnection with (and eventual
>>> reclamation of) the self. Was it inspired by drugs? Illness? A bit of
>>> both? Pure imagination?

Take a look at the 70's prog rock world in general - The Lamb sounds
perfectly normal compared to them!

The story was purely Peter's imagination (he wasn't and isn't a drug
user), and it took him one hell of a long time to actually write.

>>> When he was in Genesis he looked rather bizarre, even touting a
>>> 'reverse mohawk' at one point and donning outlandish costumes (this
>>> was in the 70's, remember so he was well ahead of his time for such
>>> hairdo's which weren't derigeur until the 80's with Flock of Seagulls,
>>> and glam-rock).

Well, no, he wasn't actually that far ahead of his time. At the time he
was criticised for copying Bowie for instance.

Besides, the costumes originally turned up deliberately so the band
would get attention (it stuck them straight on the cover of Melody
Maker, so it worked).

>>> Then, he left Genesis and went on a solo career. His first three solo
>>> albums were all called 'Peter Gabriel' which was an odd move

He was more into the visual element of the covers back then - now he
looks back at it as a bad idea anyway.

> The themes and lyrics, again, very bizarre
>>> and intense, talked about transformation, dissolution, loss, madness.

Examples please - this is *way* off the mark.

>>> THEN there was a long pause in his career which lasted many years, I
>>> *think* about 7 years or so. He had one live album during that time,
>>> which was just basically live versions of songs from his first four
>>> albums.

More like 5 years.

He was working on many other projects during that time - the proposed
Lamb Lies Down film which never got off the ground, the various WOMAD
festivals, which were pretty big in the public eye back then.

So no, there wasn't a pause in his career - just a pause in his solo
albums.

>>> By the end of THAT pause, he came out with a much different, much more
>>> mainstream image with his album SO. He looked rather 'normal'. No more
>>> weird makeup. Hair styled now. His videos were much more positive and
>>> outgoing. The intense nightmare imagery traded in for upbeat special
>>> effects and colorful claymation. He enjoyed his first number one hit
>>> with the song 'Sledgehammer' and things seemed curiously MUCH more
>>> 'calmed down' by this time. He was more politically active then too.
>>>
>>> "SO"... what was going on? What does this all sound like to this
>>> group? Was Gabriel put on meds? Was he hospitalized at some point? Did
>>> he go mad? There are rumors. But no one really seems to know the
>>> details for sure. Or aren't saying.

The above 2 paragraphs are pure rubbish. The words "straws" and
"clutching" spring to mind.

>>> There was a book 'by' Gabriel called 'In His Own Words' but I never
>>> got it because reviews on Amazon have called it disappointingly
>>> unrevelatory. Perhaps he is afraid of being publicly 'labeled'
>>> schizophrenic, if he in fact is/ever was.

If you want a book about Gabriel try "Peter Gabriel - An Authorised
Biography".

The rest of the postings I've cut out as basically nobody has their
facts straight.

So a simple answer to the subject of this post is - No.

G

ShorThing7

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Mar 19, 2002, 6:39:57 PM3/19/02

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>So a simple answer to the subject of this post is - No.
>

So sad that the immediate response is defensive. If he does indeed suffer
from, IMO a mild form of this, it is automatically deemed as an attack on PG.
If you study a history of the most impressionable artists within the millenium
- nuff said. If the political correctness movement someday embraces the
mentally ill then I hope PG will be at the forefront. If your kidney and/or
pancreas alters we quickly address it without pause yet if your brain (same
tissue component) fails, look out.

Chuck

the intruder

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Mar 19, 2002, 7:18:39 PM3/19/02

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Gary did the first part, I'll have a go at the follow UP...

In article <enef9ug3qm72dm3an...@4ax.com>, Phinny

<pna...@worldnetREMOVETHIS.att.net> wrote:

> This is an account of a thread on alt.schizophrenia. Since I am a big
> Peter Gabriel fan, as well as an artist and sufferer of
> schizoaffective disorder (which is a combination of the symptoms of
> bipolar and schizophrenia) I thought I would post an account of the
> thread here. I've avoided cross-posting to avoid flame-wars.

[snip]

> On Tue, 19 Mar 2002 20:45:57 -0000, "Contact One"
> <no.co...@nowhere.com> wrote:
>
> >I am quite, quite sure he thought he was Jesus. In 1977 when he
> >performed "The lamb lies down" live he appeared on stage in a jump suit rolling
> >around on the floor. Magazines like NME (New Musical Express) blatantly stated
> >"Come on Peter, we all know what you're thinking".
> >
> >This is compounded by his track Solisbury Hill which was his first
> >single after leaving Genesis where he states he heard a voice say "Son he said,
> >I've come to take you home" and also note the lyrics "Turning water into
> >wine, my friends would think I was a nut".
> >
> >I have absolutely no doubt that Peter Gabriel had and could still have
> >schizophrenia and at one stage thought he was Jesus.

Mmmh... Besides the fact that dates and titles above are totally
confused... from a description on these same lines, probably
99,99999999999% of all rock musicians that ever performed on a stage
have personality disorders.
So peace to no contact, may he be happy with his conviction (delusion?)
:-)

> >"Phinny" <pna...@worldnetREMOVETHIS.att.net> wrote:
>
>
> But if you were to say all this on the Peter Gabriel newsgroup or
> SUGGEST he was even BIPOLAR, it would provoke GREAT controversy (I
> haven't tried but look at google groups for vairous discussions under
> 'Peter Gabriel' and 'bipolar' for proof of this) Same thing on the
> Zappa newsgroup if you try to suggest there was something going on or
> he was suffering from some condition people take this as some sort of
> insult to the artist.

Well, why shouldn't it?
The point is: since when are rumours truths? A man grows old, passes his
5Oth birthday, looses hair, decides to shave the scattered remains
(hehehehe!). ZAP! Rumours of chemiotherapy and all sorts of tumours.

Or take another example: a man grows old, passes his 50th birthday,
posts news on his website and passes on press releases about his nearly
finished album which will be released in September. This in 1996. ZAP!
there is the album... or... wait a minute... is there?
And now I'm starting to doubt: are we all on this list the self deluded
ones that think there never was a release while actually the rest of the
world has been happily enjoying UP and its follow UPS for the last six
years?

> Apparently people think that if you have bipolar or schizophrenia it
> somehow doesn't mean you can be a genius too or that it somehow
> neutralizes the notion that you are a genius. That was, I thought the
> value of the 'Beautiful Mind' film, to dispel that common
> misconception, despite all the controversy around the editorializing
> they had to do on the film (good lord condensing a 70+ year life down
> to two hours and do it positively is no easy task!).

I'm not an expert on schizophrenia and I'm not proving or disproving
anything. Nor am I a mathematician or an economist. One thing I can say
though, is that the movie in fact sucks quite a bit...

> Nash, for all his supposed shortcomings, certainly deserves credit for
> 'coming out' as having the problems/illness and allowing the book and
> film to be made... Gabriel, genius as he may be, has not come out to
> explain what was going on, one would assume in order not to hurt his
> music career.

In order "not to hurt his music career"? You sound as sure as no contact
here... But why then - "not to hurt his music career" - has Gabriel left
Genesis? why has he spend billions and risked of his own to launch a
world music festival and record label that any sensible person in the
business has probably advised him against? why does he work at his own
pace instead of churning out single after single? and so on and on and
on...

Again: I'm no medicine student and my knowledge of schizophrenia is
limited (in the family, though not very close). I don't claim at all
that a schizophrenic or bipolar person can't be a genius. But actually
(might be MY delusion here) Peter Gabriel stands for anything that is
sensible reasonable and yes, human - with the hundreds and thousands of
quirks all of us have within us. I just don't see this as a symptom of
schizophrenia, not because it's an insult, simply because it's nothing
but sheer speculation.

the intruder

NP: Queen: I'm going slightly mad ;-)

--
intruder's happy in the dark
intruder comes and he leaves his mark

Michael Poloukhine

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Mar 19, 2002, 10:02:40 PM3/19/02

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Phinny,
I find it a tribute to PG and his talent that you (primarliy due to your
rather candid revalation to us of your own personal struggles) find his music
so "connectable". Personally, I think the fact that you find a strong
connection to his music is as a result of its depth, power and strength,
rather than any shared affliction with the artist. The music moves *many*
different people (hell, it even moves apes) but that doesn't mean PG shares
the traits of the people (or the apes) moved. It just means his music is
*really* good. I honestly think it is that simple.

I think the key word that is getting peoples' goat here is the claim of a
"speculation" in the face of what is very obviously more a "fabrication":

The original post went way beyond "speculation" with

>> There has been conflicting reports that he was/is 'bipolar' and also
>> conflicting reports that he was institutionalized.

You bet people here will get riled UP about that: There were *reports* that
PG was institutionalized??? I must have missed the newsflash on the RW site,
<sarcasm> along with the conflicting ones on "The Hill". ROTFLMAO.
"Reports that he was institutionalized"!? What reports??? More like concocted
fabrications of some netizen's imagination churned out as rumors and
"reported" to us today on a newsgroup by some apparent and self-proclaimed
expert on PG's psychological condition in both past and present for the sole
purpose of furthering their own theory. Bollocks.

In the real world its called armchair theorization, or less politely, rumor
mongering.

Its all well and good to analyze PG's music from all sorts of perspectives,
scitzophrenia not excluded. It may even not be off base to wonder if PG
did/does suffer from these or some other myriad symptoms based on the
passion/emotions evoked by his music by people suffering from those ailments.
But lets keep it at "wondering". Better yet, lets just hear that PG music
moves people from all sorts of walks of life, and that PG must be quite
masterful to be able to create sounds and music that can simultaneously move
so many people with such differing personalities and traits.

I think the reason people here got "defensive" in any way is somewhat related
to the belief that if PG did/does suffer from this or any other ailment, and
has overcome its limitations to achieve what he has, he would have been out
with it by now if he wanted people to know about it. He champions a *lot* of
causes, and it seems hard to believe that if he suffered from S he would not
have in *some* way directly and publicly addressed this with his art or his
energies. Seeing as he *hasn't* done this, people here assume he does *not*
suffer from the affliction and see as an affront any speculation that he
does, not because of any aversion to the ailment, but rather from an aversion
to baseless speculation and rumor.

What's more, if he *does* suffer from scitzophrenia, and has *not* told the
world, do you really think he wants or more importantly think he *needs*
people posturing and theorizing about it? I haven't suffered from the
ailement, but knowing what I know of it, the *last* thing he'd need is people
going around looking at him strangely trying to figure out if he is
scitzophrenic. Not everyone suffering from scitzophrenia benefits from
"coming out" with it. Some are far better dealing with it in private, at
least until they are ready. Right?

SO:

a) If PG does not suffer from these ailments, then the post you forwarded,
and any ensuing "discussion" based on it its "reports" is rumor mongering,
and IMO is out of place.

Concurrently,

b) *IF* (big IF) PG should be or ever have been suffering from any of these
afflictions, the fact that he has *not* released it into the public realm is
reason enough for me to leave it alone.

End of subject for me. Let's listen to the music. :-)

Phinny wrote:

> On Wed, 20 Mar 2002 01:18:39 +0100, the intruder
> <the.NOSPA...@iolNOSPAM.it> wrote:
>
> I know this is all speculation. I am just stating that I, as someone
> who has suffered from such symptoms, and being an artist (though make
> no claim to be as accomplished as Peter certainly) I am just saying
> that his work sounds too familiar to me. The things he writes about,
> and the suspicious way everything 'calmed down' when SO came out after
> that long pause leads me to believe these things. IMO. It's sort of
> like 'it takes one to know one'. Sort of like how a gay man might
> recognize something in Freddie Mercury.

>
> >
> >I'm not an expert on schizophrenia and I'm not proving or disproving
> >anything. Nor am I a mathematician or an economist. One thing I can say
> >though, is that the movie in fact sucks quite a bit...
> >
>

> Well there's no accounting for taste, but I thought it was wondeful.

>
> >> Nash, for all his supposed shortcomings, certainly deserves credit for
> >> 'coming out' as having the problems/illness and allowing the book and
> >> film to be made... Gabriel, genius as he may be, has not come out to
> >> explain what was going on, one would assume in order not to hurt his
> >> music career.
> >
> >In order "not to hurt his music career"? You sound as sure as no contact
> >here... But why then - "not to hurt his music career" - has Gabriel left
> >Genesis? why has he spend billions and risked of his own to launch a
> >world music festival and record label that any sensible person in the
> >business has probably advised him against? why does he work at his own
> >pace instead of churning out single after single? and so on and on and
> >on...
> >
> >Again: I'm no medicine student and my knowledge of schizophrenia is
> >limited (in the family, though not very close). I don't claim at all
> >that a schizophrenic or bipolar person can't be a genius. But actually
> >(might be MY delusion here) Peter Gabriel stands for anything that is
> >sensible reasonable and yes, human - with the hundreds and thousands of
> >quirks all of us have within us. I just don't see this as a symptom of
> >schizophrenia, not because it's an insult, simply because it's nothing
> >but sheer speculation.
> >
> >
>

> Well yeah really I don't know. I'm not saying he has it or had it, the
> subject is in the form of a question after all. I am speculating. It's
> just interesting how defensive people tend to get about it.
>
> But I would say in response to what you said above also: that
> schizophrenia is a very human disease. If any organ separates us from
> the animals it's our brains and how developed they are. It doesn't
> lessen his humanity if he had this. Don't you think it would be a
> testament to his strength if it turned out he had risen above it?
>
> In terms of it hurting his career, I was speculating that perhaps he
> had not said anything about it because there is a great deal of stigma
> attached to the disease and perhaps Peter was concerned that he
> wouldn't be taken seriously or his 'friends would think he were a
> nut' or he would be labeled as 'crazy' and that this would hamper the
> serious work he wanted to do in his life.
>
> But it could be someday, when it's more accepted, he'll come out and
> talk about his difficulty, if only to say, 'you don't need to be a
> prisoner of this, I went through it too and came out of it'.
>
> I just find it interesting looking back at the google transcripts that
> a lot of his fans tend to find this whole question offensive because
> it implies that all that brilliant work came out of an illness, well
> what I'm saying is maybe, at least in part, it came out of his
> STRUGGLE with an illness, a very human illness. Certainly he is
> passionate, and passion originally meant suffering. The way one gets
> one's own spirit out of one's own suffering. Maybe something like that
> happened with him that he doesn't want to say right now.
>
> As for his political work I would say people tend to fight passiontely
> for causes that are meaningful to them. There are plenty of causes.
> He was never a political prisoner. Maybe he was a prisoner of another
> sort.

>
> >the intruder
> >
> >NP: Queen: I'm going slightly mad ;-)
>

> The other thing was, in Wallflower, he talks about 'clean white coats'
> and 'hippocratic oaths' that's obviously doctors (though I suppose
> there are doctors involved in torture too, perhaps a dual reference?).
> That song meant a great deal to me because I listened to it a lot in
> 1984 when I was in the hospital and it help pull me through.
>
> And in 'A Normal Life' that 'we want to see you lead a normal life'
> is typical of a line you hear from psychiatrists if you're in the
> hospital a lot. It's not something that would be said to a poiltical
> prisoner. And 'eating with a spoon, they don't give you knives' again
> indicative of a mental hospital, but then of course, of a prison too.
> Not proof certainly, but, at least to me, interesting.
>
> -=-pn
>
> my webcast = http://listen.to/voicejail

--

Michael Poloukhine
po...@genesismuseum.com
http://www.genesismuseum.com/~polo/collection.htm

Theorem Futile

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Mar 20, 2002, 9:50:43 AM3/20/02

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The song "That Voice Again" is all about schizophrenia, so Peter knows
about the disease. But I doubt anyone suffering from dissociation
could have written Gabriel's corpus. There is simply to much insight
into it.

Intruder

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Mar 20, 2002, 10:10:38 AM3/20/02

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In article <198bc799.02032...@posting.google.com>,
humble...@my-deja.com (Theorem Futile) wrote:

Really? Is that the topic of the song?
I always thought of it in a completely different light by what I get of the
lyrics and the way Peter himself described its theme: "a song about judgement,
both judgung someone else and being judged yourself".

the intruder

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