OT:songs in commercials
William Yates
http://www.nypost.com/entertainment/52572.htm
PERFECT PITCH
By MAXINE SHEN
July 16, 2002 -- MADONNA did it. Moby did it. Now even Elvis Presley and Kid
Rock are doing it, too.Musicians used to balk at licensing their songs for
commercials - for fear of being scorned as sellouts.But artists, frustrated
with sagging sales and limited airtime, are now happily accepting
advertisers' calls.
"The ethics have changed, it's subtle, but you're less likely to hear bands
say 'No way,' the way REM did a few years ago when Microsoft wanted to use
'It's the End of the World As We Know It (And I Feel Fine)'," says Greg
Milner, associate editor of Spin.
Kid Rock made his debut last week in a commercial for Coors Original, which
features his song "Forever."
He's hoping the move will reignite his 2001 album "Cocky," whose sales have
not lived up to expectations.
"If it helps you sell records," says Milner, defending Kid Rock's decision,
"why not be in an actual commercial rather than making a video, which is,
for all intents and purposes, a commercial?"
Getting into the ad game is a surefire strategy for new artists eager to
find an audience - and for established artists anxious to boost sales.
Disappointed by the lack of radio play his "Desert Rose" single (off the
album "Brand New Day") was receiving, Sting struck a deal with Jaguar to
feature the song in commercials for the luxury car in early 2000.
Before the spot aired, "Brand New Day" was in the low 70s of Billboard's Hot
100. Within 10 days of the ad's debut, sales skyrocketed - and the album
climbed into the Top 20.
A commercial also worked magic for Wiseguys, whose "Start the Commotion,"
promoted Mitsubishi Eclipse Spyder 2001.
Although the album was released in 1999, the song did not break into the
Billboard Top 40 until after the ad aired on March 19, 2001.
And while some groaned when isn't-she-wealthy-enough Madonna licensed "Ray
of Light" to Microsoft to plug their new Windows XP last year, the furor
over artist sellout has died down.
Moby is often credited as the one who made the trend easier to swallow.
Every song from his 1999 album "Play" has been licensed, to a total of 100
advertisers.
"Moby's attitude was always that it was just a way for as many people as
possible to hear his music," says Spin's Milner.
"He's been able to turn the tables on those who say that doing so would
cheapen their art. Instead, he's saying that it's actually making his art
stronger because more people can hear his music."
Artists reap an estimated $500,000 to $1 million to license their songs for
commercials - but even more appealing is the exposure.
No one had heard of Dirty Vegas, the British rhythmic dance band - until
their single "Days Go By" was featured in a Mitsubishi 2003 Eclipse
commercial, which first aired on March 11.
As a result, the album's release date was pushed up - it wasn't even
available yet in the U.S. - and the disc catapulted to the No. 1 position on
Billboard's Top Electronic Album chart.
"Mitsubishi is a lesser known, edgier company, so we pick music that
reflects that," says Vincent Picardi, senior vice president at advertising
firm Deutsch LA.
The remix of Elvis' 1968 "A Little Less Conversation" began life on a Nike
commercial which aired in Europe during the World Cup. Dutch DJ JXL's
version went on to become a No. 1 hit here after topping the singles charts
in the U.K. and Asia.
"In a time when you don't see music videos on MTV as much as you used to,
commercials can be seen as filling that niche," says Milner. "I think you're
going to see more new songs in commercials before they hit MTV or the
radio."
Adding up the numbers
Here's how some songs climbed the Billboard charts after they were featured
on commercials:
Artist: Basement Jaxx
Product: Pringles
Song featured: "Where's Your Head At?"
Before ad: No. 52
After ad: No. 3
Artist: Wiseguys
Product: Mitsubishi Eclipse Spyder 2001
Song featured: "Start the Commotion"
Before ad: No. 63
After ad: No. 31
Artist: Sting
Product: Jaguar S-Type
Song featured: "Desert Rose"
Before ad: Not on charts
After ad: No. 17
Source: Billboard
Eddie Hill
Vin
what?
Eddie Hill
"Vin" <bja...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:6bWY8.91$Db.7...@news20.bellglobal.com...
> >sick
>
> what?
>
>
oh, you know what. if you want to have this discussion again just review
google.
eddie
Vin
>>
>> what?
>>
>>
>
>oh, you know what. if you want to have this discussion again just review
>google.
hehehe
im not interested in it at all
but i figured i'd bait you anyways
Funkenhammer Express
> but this does surprise me. sting 'disappointed by lack of radio play'.
> youd think sting would be satisfied making music for his fans, widespread as
> they are. he's been around long enough to know that when a song is good
> enough it gets the credit it deserves from fans, regardless of radio play.
> im the type of person that would hear that song in a commercial and sour
> against it, never giving it a chance. apparently im in the minority,
> because it went from being uncharted to #17, but i just find this to be head
> shaking news about sting. sting, the spokesman for the rainforest. i hope
> he researched jaguar deeply. that, or got a fleet of free jags. =/
>
> s
But if radio, MTV and VH1 don't play it...they don't know a new CD is out.
Example. Better Than Ezra are still together and have released "Deluxe",
"Friction, Baby", "How Does Your Garden Grow?" and "Closer", but how
many times do you hear them on the radio? Most of the time when you do
hear them, they are songs from either "Deluxe" or "Friction,
Baby"...most fans when they come in the store (I work in a CD store) and
ask who sings that song from the McDonald's commerical and I answer
"Better Than Ezra", they say "Damn. They're still around? I thought they
broke up years ago."
Artists are in it to make money and sell CDs, regardless of what Fugazi
says. The ones that say they aren't in it for money say that because
they are already rich.
--
AMDM Futbol Ambassador: Please support Major League Soccer. Our National
Team thanks you.
"freedom to fly is only second to the wisdom to stay grounded"
*future man* atomic jo
Hey mon, reply if you want.
Vin
>
>Example. Better Than Ezra are still together and have released "Deluxe",
>"Friction, Baby", "How Does Your Garden Grow?" and "Closer", but how
>many times do you hear them on the radio? Most of the time when you do
>hear them, they are songs from either "Deluxe" or "Friction,
>Baby"...most fans when they come in the store (I work in a CD store) and
>ask who sings that song from the McDonald's commerical and I answer
>"Better Than Ezra", they say "Damn. They're still around? I thought they
>broke up years ago."
>
>Artists are in it to make money and sell CDs, regardless of what Fugazi
>says. The ones that say they aren't in it for money say that because
>they are already rich.
it always pains fans to find out their favorite artists are greedy..
if they weren't greedy you never would have heard of them in the
first place and they would have stuck to playing clubs and releasing
albums on an indie label with a $100 promo budget.
i bet if eddie fuckin hill wrote one song in his life and got nowhere
with it and some company came up to him and offered him a million dollars
if they could use a clip of his song in their ad campaign, he'd say
yes before they even finished the question. as would anyone else..
and anyone that says otherwise is full of shit.
Jon Eve
True.
> Example. Better Than Ezra are still together and have released "Deluxe",
> "Friction, Baby", "How Does Your Garden Grow?" and "Closer", but how
> many times do you hear them on the radio? Most of the time when you do
> hear them, they are songs from either "Deluxe" or "Friction,
> Baby"...most fans when they come in the store (I work in a CD store) and
> ask who sings that song from the McDonald's commerical and I answer
> "Better Than Ezra", they say "Damn. They're still around? I thought they
> broke up years ago."
hehe...which BTE song is featured in a McDonalds ad? fucking sellouts!
;-)......but seriously BTE are great...they also released "Artifakt" but
only through their website...tis a great CD though.
> Artists are in it to make money and sell CDs, regardless of what Fugazi
> says. The ones that say they aren't in it for money say that because
> they are already rich.
lol
Jon
--
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AIM: SabuECWDDP
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==========================
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While you were sitting down.
Say what you wanted to ask me,
You opened up now."
- Hundred Reasons "Silver"
"Into The Flood Again
Same Old Trip It Was Back Then
So I Made A Big Mistake
Try To See It Once My Way"
- Alice In Chains, "Would?" (R.I.P. Layne Staley)
==========================
Vin
>worry about selling more cds. the article made it seem like he went to the
>ad to give his song exposure...and though it seems to have worked i find it
>surprising that a guy as creative as sting couldnt come up with a less
>cheesy way to do so.
sting should have given the proceeds of the commercial away to charity,
then he benefits from the exposure and increased album sales and looks
sharp at the same time.
but sting's greedy
surprise surprise
Eddie Hill
good effort
eddie
Eddie Hill
"Funkenhammer Express" <soulphis...@yahooMON.com> wrote in message
news:3D344125...@yahooMON.com...
>
> > but this does surprise me. sting 'disappointed by lack of radio play'.
> > youd think sting would be satisfied making music for his fans,
widespread as
> > they are. he's been around long enough to know that when a song is good
> > enough it gets the credit it deserves from fans, regardless of radio
play.
> > im the type of person that would hear that song in a commercial and sour
> > against it, never giving it a chance. apparently im in the minority,
> > because it went from being uncharted to #17, but i just find this to be
head
> > shaking news about sting. sting, the spokesman for the rainforest. i
hope
> > he researched jaguar deeply. that, or got a fleet of free jags. =/
> >
> > s
>
> But if radio, MTV and VH1 don't play it...they don't know a new CD is out.
>
> Example. Better Than Ezra are still together and have released "Deluxe",
> "Friction, Baby", "How Does Your Garden Grow?" and "Closer", but how
> many times do you hear them on the radio? Most of the time when you do
> hear them, they are songs from either "Deluxe" or "Friction,
> Baby"...most fans when they come in the store (I work in a CD store) and
> ask who sings that song from the McDonald's commerical and I answer
> "Better Than Ezra", they say "Damn. They're still around? I thought they
> broke up years ago."
>
> Artists are in it to make money and sell CDs, regardless of what Fugazi
you're full of shite.
> says. The ones that say they aren't in it for money say that because
> they are already rich.
>
so when i show up to jam w/ this new band tonight i should demand a paycheck
at the door?
i'll tell you what. if i decide to be in one of these bands i'm checking
out this week i'll donate every last dollar we make at shows to charity.
there ARE people that play because they like it and it's fun, not to get
rich.
eddie
Funkenhammer Express
> Funkenhammer Express <soulphis...@yahooMON.com> wrote in message
> news:3D344125...@yahooMON.com...
>
>>>youd think sting would be satisfied making music for his fans,
>>
> widespread as
>
>>>they are. he's been around long enough to know that when a song is good
>>>enough it gets the credit it deserves from fans, regardless of radio
>>
> play.
>
>>>im the type of person that would hear that song in a commercial and sour
>>>against it, never giving it a chance. apparently im in the minority,
>>>because it went from being uncharted to #17, but i just find this to be
>>
> head
>
>>>shaking news about sting. sting, the spokesman for the rainforest. i
>>
> hope
>
>>>he researched jaguar deeply. that, or got a fleet of free jags. =/
>>>
>>>s
>>
>>But if radio, MTV and VH1 don't play it...they don't know a new CD is out.
>
>
> help of mtv or vh1. i think the majority of his audience isnt of that
> demographic anyway.
So Sting fans are somehow smarter and automatically know when his CD is
released with little or no press?
>
>
>>Example. Better Than Ezra are still together and have released "Deluxe",
>>"Friction, Baby", "How Does Your Garden Grow?" and "Closer", but how
>>many times do you hear them on the radio? Most of the time when you do
>>hear them, they are songs from either "Deluxe" or "Friction,
>>Baby"...most fans when they come in the store (I work in a CD store) and
>>ask who sings that song from the McDonald's commerical and I answer
>>"Better Than Ezra", they say "Damn. They're still around? I thought they
>>broke up years ago."
>
>
> well...better than ezra isnt sting. know what i mean? in terms of time
> having been around, and global popularity.
That is not the point. Example, Eric Clapton has been around longer than
Sting, but yet many people don't know when he releases a new CD.
A majority of music fans are *fans*, not die hard obsessives that follow
artists every move.
Funkenhammer Express
>>But if radio, MTV and VH1 don't play it...they don't know a new CD is out.
>
>
> True.
>
>
>>Example. Better Than Ezra are still together and have released "Deluxe",
>>"Friction, Baby", "How Does Your Garden Grow?" and "Closer", but how
>>many times do you hear them on the radio? Most of the time when you do
>>hear them, they are songs from either "Deluxe" or "Friction,
>>Baby"...most fans when they come in the store (I work in a CD store) and
>>ask who sings that song from the McDonald's commerical and I answer
>>"Better Than Ezra", they say "Damn. They're still around? I thought they
>>broke up years ago."
>
>
> hehe...which BTE song is featured in a McDonalds ad? fucking sellouts!
> ;-)......but seriously BTE are great...they also released "Artifakt" but
> only through their website...tis a great CD though.
Extra Ordinary.
Funkenhammer Express
No.
>
>
>>says. The ones that say they aren't in it for money say that because
>>they are already rich.
>>
>
>
> so when i show up to jam w/ this new band tonight i should demand a paycheck
> at the door?
>
> i'll tell you what. if i decide to be in one of these bands i'm checking
> out this week i'll donate every last dollar we make at shows to charity.
> there ARE people that play because they like it and it's fun, not to get
> rich.
Bands with record deals are different than garage/local bands that are
never going to be rich in the first place.
Eddie Hill
you're wrong, buddy. wrong. why? because money's not that important to
me. i've got plenty to keep me in food and housing as it is. and as i've
got more i haven't really got any happier. nope. there are bigger and
better things out there.
can't buy what i want because it's free
can't be what they want because i'm....
eddie f hill
>
>
>
>
synecdoche
commercials. Why shouldn't they? How many people here, honestly,
would say now if Mitsubishi offered them six figures or more to use
their song in an ad for a car? I sure wouldn't.
I don't see why somebody shouldn't be allowed to use their music to
sell things. That is all a music video is, anyway. Let them do their
own thing. It doesn't make the music sound worse (unless you hear the
ad too much and get sick of the song, of course).
-dave
On Tue, 16 Jul 2002 12:22:10 GMT, William Yates <wry...@nope.com>
wrote:
Vin
>me. i've got plenty to keep me in food and housing as it is. and as i've
>got more i haven't really got any happier. nope. there are bigger and
>better things out there.
>
>can't buy what i want because it's free
>can't be what they want because i'm....
hey man, you keep telling yourself that. you can lie to me all you want,
but it's unhealthy to lie to yourself
you'd do it in a SECOND. and if you didn't, you're an idiot
with a million dollars and the job you have now you could make
sure yourself and your family never have to worry about money.
you could give it all to charity. you could put your entire
families children through school. the pros definitely outweigh
the cons by a landslide. again, sorry eddie, no sane human being would
turn down that offer, its not like someones offering you a million dollars
to cut off your right foot, all you're doing is allowing your song to be
played in a honda commercial.
you're -so- wrong and you know it. but you won't admit it, thats ok.
Vin
>so when i show up to jam w/ this new band tonight i should demand a paycheck
>at the door?
>
>i'll tell you what. if i decide to be in one of these bands i'm checking
>out this week i'll donate every last dollar we make at shows to charity.
>there ARE people that play because they like it and it's fun, not to get
>rich.
you say that because your band sucks and you know it'll never happen.
it's like me saying "if im ever president i will do blah blah blah"
i can say the most righteous thing because i know i'll never be
president and never be called on it.
its like people saying "if i ever see that cocksucker again im gonna
kick his ass", when they say that its usually about two days after
the guy moved to thailand..
Coil1979
commercials. Why shouldn't they? How many people here, honestly,
would say now if Mitsubishi offered them six figures or more to use
their song in an ad for a car? I sure wouldn't.>>
if i had 20 million dollars? no. if i made 9 bucks an hour working 30 hours a
week. damn right.
--
coil
"Everyone needs to take their collective AMPJ mouths off Rai's Penis"--carl
http://coil.blogspot.com --my stuff
JohnG
news:GzCpu...@news.boeing.com...
>
> you're wrong, buddy. wrong. why? because money's not that important to
> me. i've got plenty to keep me in food and housing as it is. and as i've
> got more i haven't really got any happier. nope. there are bigger and
> better things out there.
>
I would love to see someone dangle a check in front of your face to use a
song and you turn it down. Everyone has a price, Mssr. Hill, including you.
Regards,
John
Eddie Hill
"Funkenhammer Express" <soulphis...@yahooMON.com> wrote in message
> Eddie Hill wrote:
> >>says. The ones that say they aren't in it for money say that because
> >>they are already rich.
> >>
> >
> >
> > so when i show up to jam w/ this new band tonight i should demand a
paycheck
> > at the door?
> >
> > i'll tell you what. if i decide to be in one of these bands i'm
checking
> > out this week i'll donate every last dollar we make at shows to charity.
> > there ARE people that play because they like it and it's fun, not to get
> > rich.
>
>
> Bands with record deals are different than garage/local bands that are
> never going to be rich in the first place.
>
they all start out in the same place. just because they make a living at it
doesn't mean they're exempt from the morals and ethics that go w/ being an
artist. moby is not an artist. he's a business man. there is a
difference. i think it's a sad state of affairs when so many people don't
see the distinction, and everyone and everything are either for sale, or
called liars when they say they're not.
eddie
Eddie Hill
> >you're wrong, buddy. wrong. why? because money's not that important to
> >me. i've got plenty to keep me in food and housing as it is. and as
i've
> >got more i haven't really got any happier. nope. there are bigger and
> >better things out there.
> >
> >can't buy what i want because it's free
> >can't be what they want because i'm....
>
> hey man, you keep telling yourself that. you can lie to me all you want,
> but it's unhealthy to lie to yourself
>
> you'd do it in a SECOND. and if you didn't, you're an idiot
now i'm an idiot because i have different priorities and ethics then you?
hmmmm...
> with a million dollars and the job you have now you could make
> sure yourself and your family never have to worry about money.
i don't worry too much about money as it is.. .and i'm far from rich.
> you could give it all to charity.
hmmm... that one i'd consider
> you could put your entire
> families children through school.
no. people should earn their way through school or get scholarships. i
hate it that rich people can get their kids a better education. it's
nothing the kid did to earn/deserve that. i won't promote an aristocracy.
> the pros definitely outweigh
> the cons by a landslide. again, sorry eddie, no sane human being would
> turn down that offer, its not like someones offering you a million dollars
> to cut off your right foot, all you're doing is allowing your song to be
> played in a honda commercial.
>
it's more important then my foot. it's my friggin' nervous system.
> you're -so- wrong and you know it. but you won't admit it, thats ok.
>
no. actually i'm not.
some things aren't for sale. i know it annoys you that you can't buy
whatever you want, but you can't.
eddie
Eddie Hill
>
> >so when i show up to jam w/ this new band tonight i should demand a
paycheck
> >at the door?
> >
> >i'll tell you what. if i decide to be in one of these bands i'm checking
> >out this week i'll donate every last dollar we make at shows to charity.
> >there ARE people that play because they like it and it's fun, not to get
> >rich.
>
> you say that because your band sucks and you know it'll never happen.
don't know... haven't played w/ anyone yet
> it's like me saying "if im ever president i will do blah blah blah"
> i can say the most righteous thing because i know i'll never be
> president and never be called on it.
>
no, dude. i'm saying i'll take all the money and give it to charity. any
band will make some money. few hundred dollars a show or whatever. i'm
telling you, i'll take everything i get and give it to charity. how's that.
what kind of proof do you want?
eddie, putting his money where his mouth is
Eddie Hill
"JohnG" <john...@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:ah1qvv$mv5$1...@slb6.atl.mindspring.net...
how much money you got?
i don't have a price. why? because i don't care. material crap cannot
make you happy. the only way you'd have a chance is to do it now so i can
pay off my student loans. once i'm out of debt i'm not really going to
care.
eddie
> Regards,
>
> John
>
>
Eddie Hill
"oshuns" <osh...@info-internet.net> wrote in message
news:3d347895_3@aeinews....
> when your beliefs are firmly in place. im as cynical as the next east
> coaster, but i havent lost all faith, either.
>
thank you!
e
> s
>
>
> >
> >
>
>
vin
>
>i don't have a price. why? because i don't care. material crap cannot
>make you happy. the only way you'd have a chance is to do it now so i can
>pay off my student loans. once i'm out of debt i'm not really going to
>care.
>
see you dont get it, you think of money as something that can only be spent
on you. i see it as how much it can help and make other people happy.
i can give some to my aunt so she can finally get a new car, give some
to my sister/brother in law (teachers) so she doesnt have to save every last
dime and work a summer job for her childrens future education, give some to my
other sister so she doesnt have to work nights while she's in university, give
some to my grandmother so she can put in a bathroom downstairs so she doesnt
have to climb the stairs everytime, she has arthritis. give some to my
parents so they can take the vacations they've always wanted but spent their
lives working to raise us and put us through college. or give some to charity,
set up a shelter, help someone. maybe you don't need money, but a lot
of people do.
and eddie you're an unmarried guy with no kids and no mortgage. when all that
changes, you'll jump at the chance of having a little security in life,
especially when you have more than just yourself to provide for, you could lose
your cushy job y'know. you're incredibly short sighted and maybe even selfish
(the thought of helping others didnt even cross your mind).
you'd take the money
you'd take a million
you'd take $100,000
so would oshuns
so would anyone.
and anyone that would turn it down, and the chance to either add security
to their lives and those of their children or future children, or to help
family or strangers because of some fucked up sense of integrity, ARE stupid.
either that money goes into your hands or the hands of sting or some ceo.
where's it going to go to better use?
im sorry if this post seems to be in an angry tone, its not meant to be.
and yes, everyone and everything has a price.
vin
>band will make some money. few hundred dollars a show or whatever. i'm
>telling you, i'll take everything i get and give it to charity. how's that.
>what kind of proof do you want?
>
>eddie, putting his money where his mouth is
you make more than you need at boeing.
give it away
AniSaerah
commercial or whatever. but if someone else wants to sell the music that they
have created, more power to them. we all have our own priorities.
Saerah
Funkenhammer Express
> Funkenhammer Express <soulphis...@yahooMON.com> wrote in message
> going to be released with little or no press. people who are into stuff get
> the low down on stuff and know whats up. music lovers on the whole hardly
> rely on mtv and vh1.
We "somehow" know because we are HUGE fans and get newsletters. I know
plenty of Pearl Jam fans that didn't even know Binaural was out until
months down the road when I asked them if they had heard it.
No one said anything about "music lovers". They only make up a
percentage of sales, the rest come from people who hear it on radio or
see it on MTV.
To most people, looking for release dates on the 'net isn't how they
prefer to spend their free time.
Holtz
JohnG wrote:
I'd sell any song I did in a second if I needed the money or was not rich. But
if I was Aeromsith rich I wouldn't do it, unless they offered me some obscenely
large amount.
--
Holtz.
Remove BUDSELIGISTHEDEVIL to reply
My bootleg list,
http://www.tapetrader.com/Holtz
Funkenhammer Express
> "Funkenhammer Express" <soulphis...@yahooMON.com> wrote in message
> news:3D34533D...@yahooMON.com...
>
>>Eddie Hill wrote:
>>
>>>>says. The ones that say they aren't in it for money say that because
>>>>they are already rich.
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>so when i show up to jam w/ this new band tonight i should demand a
>>
> paycheck
>
>>>at the door?
>>>
>>>i'll tell you what. if i decide to be in one of these bands i'm
>>
> checking
>
>>>out this week i'll donate every last dollar we make at shows to charity.
>>>there ARE people that play because they like it and it's fun, not to get
>>>rich.
>>
>>
>>Bands with record deals are different than garage/local bands that are
>>never going to be rich in the first place.
>>
>
>
> they all start out in the same place. just because they make a living at it
> doesn't mean they're exempt from the morals and ethics that go w/ being an
> artist. moby is not an artist. he's a business man. there is a
> difference. i think it's a sad state of affairs when so many people don't
> see the distinction, and everyone and everything are either for sale, or
> called liars when they say they're not.
>
Yeah, they all start that way, but you can say you will never sell a
song, because more than likely they are never going to ask.
Moby is an artist. He is also a business man.
Ji-nay
"William Yates" <wry...@nope.com> wrote in message
news:3D340FFA...@nope.com...
> Kid Rock made his debut last week in a commercial for Coors Original,
which
> features his song "Forever."
>
> He's hoping the move will reignite his 2001 album "Cocky," whose sales
have
> not lived up to expectations.
That last sentence so ironic it's funny.
-Jennifer
Funkenhammer Express
> right. and im saying that its a shame sting couldnt come up with a more
> creative way to bolster interest in his stuff than selling it to jaguar.
> he's one of those guys ive come to expect more from. to repeat, the article
> said he wanted to give the song more exposure. he could have gone a million
> ways,
Such as? Radio wasn't playing it.
I am anxious to hear these million ways....
JettKarma
******************************************************************
I doubt Eddie makes millions at Boeing.
--Jett
Chuck A
[A] I agree with Vin's point. There are plenty of ways you can use the money,
some good and some bad.
[B] I don't think Eddie or anyone else is a dumbass for having beliefs.
[C] A belief is a personal thing. It's not saying that what they believe is a
bona fide fact. That's why they're called beliefs. They're what that person
believes to be true.
[D] People who choose to label others as idiotic for their beliefs are the true
idiots.
[E] I don't think there's a damn thing wrong with selling your music. It's
their music to do with it whatever they want. I don't wish the musicians I like
ill-success just as I don't wish the people I like ill-success. That however is
just my belief.
[F] The commercial median is just as viable a medium for getting artists music
out to the public as movie soundtrack...which I believe our beloved Pearl Jam
has done from time to time (Singles, Judgement Night, Chicago Cab, The
Basketball Diaries, Dead Man Walking).
--C
"I've been listening to my gut all my life and you know what I've realized? My
guts have shit for brains."
vin
>some good and some bad.
>[B] I don't think Eddie or anyone else is a dumbass for having beliefs.
yeah but eddies just being a dumbass
>[D] People who choose to label others as idiotic for their beliefs are the
>true idiots.
you just called me an idiot for calling eddie an idiot, idiot.
vin
still makes more than he needs
vin
>any of those type of shows.
i wonder if oshuns realises that by appearing on such shows the artist
is helping sell the products in the commercials. the only reason shows
exist is to sell ad space, the only reason leno invites sting, is
to boost or maintain ratings so nbc can demand $100,000 an ad.
>he could have used it to further one of the
>causes he believes in, like the rainforest, and created a mutually
>beneficial attention situation. he could have waited two months and
>re-released it, or offered it to a movie.
selling the movie. any movie? men in black 2? if thats not a product what is.
Chuck A
>>true idiots.
>
>you just called me an idiot for calling eddie an idiot, idiot.
Do you see your name in there? I don't think I mentioned Vin...but I guess some
part of you thinks you're an idiot. It's okay. You've come to grips with it.
I'm proud of you man. Nice talking to you. I'm done on the matter.
Vin
>>>true idiots.
>>
>>you just called me an idiot for calling eddie an idiot, idiot.
>
>Do you see your name in there? I don't think I mentioned Vin...but I guess
some
>part of you thinks you're an idiot. It's okay. You've come to grips with it.
>I'm proud of you man. Nice talking to you. I'm done on the matter.
i don't think i'm an idiot, but i do know that you called me an idiot.
why must everyone try and be a smart alec? you have to be smart before
you can be a smart alec. people always get the order wrong.
Funkenhammer Express
> Funkenhammer Express <soulphis...@yahooMON.com> wrote in message
>
>>>right. and im saying that its a shame sting couldnt come up with a more
>>>creative way to bolster interest in his stuff than selling it to jaguar.
>>>he's one of those guys ive come to expect more from. to repeat, the
>>
> article
>
>>>said he wanted to give the song more exposure. he could have gone a
>>
> million
>
>>>ways,
>>
>>Such as? Radio wasn't playing it.
>>
>>I am anxious to hear these million ways....
>
>
> any of those type of shows.
Only works if you stay awake. For instance, my dad is a music fan, but
he goes to bed before the late night talk shows and leaves for work
before the "good morning" talk shows.
he could have used it to further one of the
> causes he believes in, like the rainforest, and created a mutually
> beneficial attention situation.
How?
he could have waited two months and
> re-released it,
That is just wasting money
or offered it to a movie.
Same as a commercial. That movie has NOTHING to do with what the artist
wrong the song about, plus he would have been making a hefty chunk of
change promoting someone else's work. You are against that, remember?
he could have used his creative
> sting brain to come up with gazillion billions of other ideas that didnt
> involve the use of his art to sell a product that did nothing but line his
> pockets, if all he was interested in was exposure for the song.
>
> s
Shannon
wrote:
>
>"He's been able to turn the tables on those who say that doing so would
>cheapen their art. Instead, he's saying that it's actually making his art
>stronger because more people can hear his music."
Yeah, they'll always remember the special moment when they heard that
15 second snippet of Moby behind the SUV commercial. :P
Shannon
**
The thieves...the filthy little thieves! They've stolen my Precious, and
we wants it!
Shannon
<osh...@info-internet.net> wrote:
>im the type of person that would hear that song in a commercial and sour
>against it, never giving it a chance. apparently im in the minority,
I wouldn't necessarily sour against the song but I wouldn't ever be
able to take it seriously, or think of it as anything but that song in
that commercial.
And I'm so sick of people saying, "oh, well, what's the difference,
they do videos, and those are just commercials!" Maybe they are, but
at least they are promoting themselves and their own work, not potato
chips or something.
>because it went from being uncharted to #17, but i just find this to be head
>shaking news about sting. sting, the spokesman for the rainforest. i hope
>he researched jaguar deeply. that, or got a fleet of free jags. =/
Makes it a bit harder to take him seriously.
Funkenhammer Express
> On Tue, 16 Jul 2002 11:04:28 -0400, "oshuns"
> <osh...@info-internet.net> wrote:
>
>
>
>>im the type of person that would hear that song in a commercial and sour
>>against it, never giving it a chance. apparently im in the minority,
>
>
> I wouldn't necessarily sour against the song but I wouldn't ever be
> able to take it seriously, or think of it as anything but that song in
> that commercial.
>
> And I'm so sick of people saying, "oh, well, what's the difference,
> they do videos, and those are just commercials!" Maybe they are, but
> at least they are promoting themselves and their own work, not potato
> chips or something.
>
>
>>because it went from being uncharted to #17, but i just find this to be head
>>shaking news about sting. sting, the spokesman for the rainforest. i hope
>>he researched jaguar deeply. that, or got a fleet of free jags. =/
>
>
> Makes it a bit harder to take him seriously.
You took Sting seriously? How can you take someone who calls himself
"Sting" seriously?
Shannon
wrote:
>I don't see why somebody shouldn't be allowed to use their music to
>sell things. That is all a music video is, anyway.
A music video is self promotion. It's quite different from taking a
song that you claim is some kind of artistic expression, handing it
over to an advertising department, and saying, "Here, take my song,
and use it to sell your cars. Be careful not to misspell my name on
the check, please."
Funkenhammer Express
> On Tue, 16 Jul 2002 17:19:06 GMT, synecdoche <da...@despammed.com>
> wrote:
>
>
>
>>I don't see why somebody shouldn't be allowed to use their music to
>>sell things. That is all a music video is, anyway.
>
>
> A music video is self promotion. It's quite different from taking a
> song that you claim is some kind of artistic expression, handing it
> over to an advertising department, and saying, "Here, take my song,
> and use it to sell your cars. Be careful not to misspell my name on
> the check, please."
What is the difference in saying "here, take my song and use it in the
commercials to promote your movie" or "here, take my song and use it to
promote a scene in your movie that has nothing to do with the original
purpose of the song"
I am sure Elton John did not have the image of a burned out rock band
riding in a bus when he wrote Tiny Dancer, but that is what everyone
will remember that song for.
synecdoche
wrote:
>On Tue, 16 Jul 2002 17:19:06 GMT, synecdoche <da...@despammed.com>
>wrote:
>
>
>>I don't see why somebody shouldn't be allowed to use their music to
>>sell things. That is all a music video is, anyway.
>
>A music video is self promotion. It's quite different from taking a
>song that you claim is some kind of artistic expression, handing it
>over to an advertising department, and saying, "Here, take my song,
>and use it to sell your cars. Be careful not to misspell my name on
>the check, please."
>
I don't understand the problem. Sting wrote the song. He can do with
it what he likes. Is there some moral issue with this? I really
don't understand what the big deal is. Maybe it isn't in line with
your artistic view of the song. Fine. But maybe said artist (be it
the Who, Sting, Moby, or whoever) has decided that they'd like a
little more money. It doesn't matter how much they have already.
They are selling something they created.
Getting down on somebody for selling their song for a commercial is
like telling me that if I make a piece of furniture I shouldn't sell
it because it flies in the face of the artistic expression of the
piece. I made it, I can do what I want with it. Same deal.
Anyway, from the article it sounds like the commercials are self
promotion too. The gist of it was that artists sell their songs to
advertisers not only for the quick cash but also to raise awareness of
the album/single/whatever.
-dave
synecdoche
<eddieg...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>moby is not an artist. he's a business man.
Why can't somebody be both? If a guy creates a painting and somebody
else offers him a million dollars for it, why shouldn't he take it?
Or if somebody doesn't offer him the money, why shouldn't the artist
have an art show to showcase his work in the hopes that somebody buys
it?
Just because he sells something doesn't detract from his artistic
talent.
Would you deny that Michealangelo is an artist beause he was paid to
paint the roof of the Sistine chapel? Would you say that norman
Rockwell is not an artist because his paintings sold magazines?
If not, then why is Moby any less of an artist because he let somebody
pay him to use "Porcelain" in a commercial?
If so, then you've got some twisted definition of the word "artist"
and/or "art."
-dave
aka chelsea corazon
Chuck A wrote:
>
> This is a reply to the thread in general.
> [A] I agree with Vin's point. There are plenty of ways you can use the money,
> some good and some bad.
> [B] I don't think Eddie or anyone else is a dumbass for having beliefs.
> [C] A belief is a personal thing. It's not saying that what they believe is a
> bona fide fact. That's why they're called beliefs. They're what that person
> believes to be true.
> [D] People who choose to label others as idiotic for their beliefs are the true
> idiots.
> [E] I don't think there's a damn thing wrong with selling your music. It's
> their music to do with it whatever they want. I don't wish the musicians I like
> ill-success just as I don't wish the people I like ill-success. That however is
> just my belief.
but you've gotta admit it *is* annoying to turn on tv, and hear a song
you've liked
for years like 'bargain' or 'taxman' being attached to some product or
other. it's
somewhat demeaning to the creative process, also, to shill for beer or a
car company.
> [F] The commercial median is just as viable a medium for getting artists music
> out to the public as movie soundtrack...which I believe our beloved Pearl Jam
> has done from time to time (Singles, Judgement Night, Chicago Cab, The
> Basketball Diaries, Dead Man Walking).
and don't forget about 'dead man walking': 'you've got to hide your
love away' must
have brought eddie v. a nice chunk of change.
chelsea
synecdoche
<kare...@mindspring.com> wrote:
>but you've gotta admit it *is* annoying to turn on tv, and hear a song
>you've liked
>for years like 'bargain' or 'taxman' being attached to some product or
>other. it's
>somewhat demeaning to the creative process, also, to shill for beer or a
>car company.
>
It is a completely different issue if it was not the original creator
who sells the song (as it is with Taxman). Then there is something
wrong. But if the artist who created the piece of art wants to sell
something, that's their business.
-dave
Shannon
<soulphis...@yahooMON.com> wrote:
>Shannon wrote:
>> On Tue, 16 Jul 2002 17:19:06 GMT, synecdoche <da...@despammed.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>>I don't see why somebody shouldn't be allowed to use their music to
>>>sell things. That is all a music video is, anyway.
>>
>>
>> A music video is self promotion. It's quite different from taking a
>> song that you claim is some kind of artistic expression, handing it
>> over to an advertising department, and saying, "Here, take my song,
>> and use it to sell your cars. Be careful not to misspell my name on
>> the check, please."
>
>
>What is the difference in saying "here, take my song and use it in the
>commercials to promote your movie" or "here, take my song and use it to
>promote a scene in your movie that has nothing to do with the original
>purpose of the song"
maybe that's just my personal quirk, but it doesn't bother me so much.
When it's done right, a song can add so much to a movie...it can add
to the art. There's no purpose to a car commercial but to rake in as
much cash as possible.
>
>I am sure Elton John did not have the image of a burned out rock band
>riding in a bus when he wrote Tiny Dancer, but that is what everyone
>will remember that song for.
Only you youngsters. :) And you might be more wrong than you think
about that...listen to the lyrics.
Shannon
wrote:
>On Wed, 17 Jul 2002 00:06:46 -0400, Shannon <srae...@iglouGoAway.com>
>wrote:
>
>>On Tue, 16 Jul 2002 17:19:06 GMT, synecdoche <da...@despammed.com>
>>wrote:
>>
>>
>>>I don't see why somebody shouldn't be allowed to use their music to
>>>sell things. That is all a music video is, anyway.
>>
>>A music video is self promotion. It's quite different from taking a
>>song that you claim is some kind of artistic expression, handing it
>>over to an advertising department, and saying, "Here, take my song,
>>and use it to sell your cars. Be careful not to misspell my name on
>>the check, please."
>>
>
>I don't understand the problem. Sting wrote the song. He can do with
>it what he likes. Is there some moral issue with this? I really
>don't understand what the big deal is. Maybe it isn't in line with
>your artistic view of the song. Fine. But maybe said artist (be it
>the Who, Sting, Moby, or whoever) has decided that they'd like a
>little more money. It doesn't matter how much they have already.
>They are selling something they created.
They are perfectly free to do whatever they like with what they've
created...however, they better not be surprised when some of their
fans view them as a bit more mercernary than they used to.
Eddie Hill
"vin" <vin...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:rS%Y8.5574$o7.8...@news20.bellglobal.com...
> >how much money you got?
> >
> >i don't have a price. why? because i don't care. material crap cannot
> >make you happy. the only way you'd have a chance is to do it now so i
can
> >pay off my student loans. once i'm out of debt i'm not really going to
> >care.
> >
>
> see you dont get it, you think of money as something that can only be
spent
> on you. i see it as how much it can help and make other people happy.
> i can give some to my aunt so she can finally get a new car, give some
> to my sister/brother in law (teachers) so she doesnt have to save every
last
> dime and work a summer job for her childrens future education, give some
to my
> other sister so she doesnt have to work nights while she's in university,
give
> some to my grandmother so she can put in a bathroom downstairs so she
doesnt
> have to climb the stairs everytime, she has arthritis. give some to my
> parents so they can take the vacations they've always wanted but spent
their
> lives working to raise us and put us through college. or give some to
charity,
> set up a shelter, help someone. maybe you don't need money, but a lot
> of people do.
>
and because i wouldn't try to make it for them by selling out i'm suddenly a
bad guy?
whatever
> and eddie you're an unmarried guy with no kids and no mortgage. when all
that
> changes, you'll jump at the chance of having a little security in life,
> especially when you have more than just yourself to provide for, you could
lose
> your cushy job y'know. you're incredibly short sighted and maybe even
selfish
> (the thought of helping others didnt even cross your mind).
>
didn't i say i'd give the money to charity? oh, wait, yes i did.
> you'd take the money
> you'd take a million
> you'd take $100,000
> so would oshuns
> so would anyone.
not true. how many TV shows have pearl jam turned down? that's one
example.
> and anyone that would turn it down, and the chance to either add security
> to their lives and those of their children or future children, or to help
> family or strangers because of some fucked up sense of integrity, ARE
stupid.
why should they try to set their children up for life? we're back to
aristocracies now?
> either that money goes into your hands or the hands of sting or some ceo.
> where's it going to go to better use?
>
no, because we're talking about artists refusing to generate that money. it
stays in the hands of your average american.
> im sorry if this post seems to be in an angry tone, its not meant to be.
> and yes, everyone and everything has a price.
>
that's not true
eddie
Eddie Hill
> >no, dude. i'm saying i'll take all the money and give it to charity.
any
> >band will make some money. few hundred dollars a show or whatever. i'm
> >telling you, i'll take everything i get and give it to charity. how's
that.
> >what kind of proof do you want?
> >
> >eddie, putting his money where his mouth is
>
> you make more than you need at boeing.
> give it away
>
because engineering is my job, not my art. i have no problem making money
at my job. i do have a problem using art to get rich.
it's really not that hard, vin. follow along.
eddie
Eddie Hill
"Funkenhammer Express" <soulphis...@yahooMON.com> wrote in message
> Eddie Hill wrote:
> > "Funkenhammer Express" <soulphis...@yahooMON.com> wrote in message
> > news:3D34533D...@yahooMON.com...
> >
> >
at it
> > doesn't mean they're exempt from the morals and ethics that go w/ being
an
> > artist. moby is not an artist. he's a business man. there is a
> > difference. i think it's a sad state of affairs when so many people
don't
> > see the distinction, and everyone and everything are either for sale, or
> > called liars when they say they're not.
> >
>
>
> Yeah, they all start that way, but you can say you will never sell a
> song, because more than likely they are never going to ask.
>
true, and there's nothing i can do about that. all i can do is offer what i
have. if giving everything i get from gigs isn't going to prove anything to
you all the i'll apply it to my student loans and beer payments. i'm just
trying to make a point.
> Moby is an artist. He is also a business man.
>
>
he is a business man first. screw him. i don't want to hear ken lay's
music either.
eddie
Eddie Hill
> >[A] I agree with Vin's point. There are plenty of ways you can use the
money,
> >some good and some bad.
> >[B] I don't think Eddie or anyone else is a dumbass for having beliefs.
>
> yeah but eddies just being a dumbass
>
music ethics does not equal dumbass, dumbass
eddie
Eddie Hill
almost everyone makes more then they need. what do you need? food? you
can not make any money and get that. you know how many people in this
country starve to death? pretty much none. malnourished, sure. dead.
nuh-uh.
eddie
Eddie Hill
"synecdoche" <da...@despammed.com> wrote in message
news:u5t9juoqi5dkjkh3u...@4ax.com...
> On Tue, 16 Jul 2002 19:28:28 GMT, "Eddie Hill"
> <eddieg...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >
> >moby is not an artist. he's a business man.
>
> Why can't somebody be both? If a guy creates a painting and somebody
> else offers him a million dollars for it, why shouldn't he take it?
>
> Or if somebody doesn't offer him the money, why shouldn't the artist
> have an art show to showcase his work in the hopes that somebody buys
> it?
>
> Just because he sells something doesn't detract from his artistic
> talent.
>
> Would you deny that Michealangelo is an artist beause he was paid to
> paint the roof of the Sistine chapel?
if the roof had been an ad trying to get you to buy something then the
comparison would be accurate.
> Would you say that norman
> Rockwell is not an artist because his paintings sold magazines?
>
once again, not an ad.
HOWEVER, didn't norm do some things for coke?
never did like the guy
> If not, then why is Moby any less of an artist because he let somebody
> pay him to use "Porcelain" in a commercial?
>
> If so, then you've got some twisted definition of the word "artist"
> and/or "art."
>
no. i just know the difference between art and ad.
eddie
> -dave
>
>
JohnG
news:GzE92...@news.boeing.com...
>
> > im sorry if this post seems to be in an angry tone, its not meant to be.
> > and yes, everyone and everything has a price.
>
> that's not true
>
Yes it is true Hill and it's naive to think otherwise.(or pollyanna-esque)
Some have prices that are higher than others but EVERYONE has a price. It's
just that the Rolling Stones and The Who have lower prices than bands like
Pearl Jam and REM.
Regards,
John
Funkenhammer Express
The lyrics have nothing to do with it.
Cameron saw something in Elton's song that would benefit his movie, not
the other way around.
That song was used to sell that movie. Weeks before the release, MTV2
played "tiny dancer" as a video, but only the scene from the movie...so
you didn't get the entire song. It was more like a ad for the movie than
a video.
They both got richer.
Funkenhammer Express
> because engineering is my job, not my art. i have no problem making money
> at my job. i do have a problem using art to get rich.
>
> it's really not that hard, vin. follow along.
So, if you got a record deal and went on tour, you would still work as
an engineer to earn your keep?
Once you accept a record deal, that becomes your job. You don't see
Stone or Mike making pizzas.
Anthony
perfectly in 'hooker with a penis':
All you know about me is what I've sold you,
Dumb fuck.
I sold out long before you ever heard my name.
I sold my soul to make a record,
Dip shit,
And you bought one.
So I've got some
Advice for you, little buddy.
Before you point your finger
You should know that
I'm the man,
If I'm the fuckin' man
Then you're the fuckin' man as well
So you can
Point that fuckin' finger up your ass.
--
All you read and
Wear or see and
Hear on TV
Is a product
Begging for your
Fatass dirty
Dollar
So...Shut up and
Buy my new record
Send more money
Fuck you, buddy.
Couldn't agree more...
A.
"William Yates" <wry...@nope.com> wrote in message
news:3D340FFA...@nope.com...
> From the New York Post at:
> http://www.nypost.com/entertainment/52572.htm
>
> PERFECT PITCH
> By MAXINE SHEN
>
> July 16, 2002 -- MADONNA did it. Moby did it. Now even Elvis Presley and
Kid
> Rock are doing it, too.Musicians used to balk at licensing their songs for
> commercials - for fear of being scorned as sellouts.But artists,
frustrated
> with sagging sales and limited airtime, are now happily accepting
> advertisers' calls.
>
> "The ethics have changed, it's subtle, but you're less likely to hear
bands
> say 'No way,' the way REM did a few years ago when Microsoft wanted to use
> 'It's the End of the World As We Know It (And I Feel Fine)'," says Greg
> Milner, associate editor of Spin.
>
> Kid Rock made his debut last week in a commercial for Coors Original,
which
> features his song "Forever."
>
> He's hoping the move will reignite his 2001 album "Cocky," whose sales
have
> not lived up to expectations.
>
> "If it helps you sell records," says Milner, defending Kid Rock's
decision,
> "why not be in an actual commercial rather than making a video, which is,
> for all intents and purposes, a commercial?"
>
> Getting into the ad game is a surefire strategy for new artists eager to
> find an audience - and for established artists anxious to boost sales.
>
> Disappointed by the lack of radio play his "Desert Rose" single (off the
> album "Brand New Day") was receiving, Sting struck a deal with Jaguar to
> feature the song in commercials for the luxury car in early 2000.
>
> Before the spot aired, "Brand New Day" was in the low 70s of Billboard's
Hot
> 100. Within 10 days of the ad's debut, sales skyrocketed - and the album
> climbed into the Top 20.
>
> A commercial also worked magic for Wiseguys, whose "Start the Commotion,"
> promoted Mitsubishi Eclipse Spyder 2001.
>
> Although the album was released in 1999, the song did not break into the
> Billboard Top 40 until after the ad aired on March 19, 2001.
>
> And while some groaned when isn't-she-wealthy-enough Madonna licensed "Ray
> of Light" to Microsoft to plug their new Windows XP last year, the furor
> over artist sellout has died down.
>
> Moby is often credited as the one who made the trend easier to swallow.
> Every song from his 1999 album "Play" has been licensed, to a total of 100
> advertisers.
>
> "Moby's attitude was always that it was just a way for as many people as
> possible to hear his music," says Spin's Milner.
>
> "He's been able to turn the tables on those who say that doing so would
> cheapen their art. Instead, he's saying that it's actually making his art
> stronger because more people can hear his music."
>
> Artists reap an estimated $500,000 to $1 million to license their songs
for
> commercials - but even more appealing is the exposure.
>
> No one had heard of Dirty Vegas, the British rhythmic dance band - until
> their single "Days Go By" was featured in a Mitsubishi 2003 Eclipse
> commercial, which first aired on March 11.
>
> As a result, the album's release date was pushed up - it wasn't even
> available yet in the U.S. - and the disc catapulted to the No. 1 position
on
> Billboard's Top Electronic Album chart.
>
> "Mitsubishi is a lesser known, edgier company, so we pick music that
> reflects that," says Vincent Picardi, senior vice president at advertising
> firm Deutsch LA.
>
> The remix of Elvis' 1968 "A Little Less Conversation" began life on a Nike
> commercial which aired in Europe during the World Cup. Dutch DJ JXL's
> version went on to become a No. 1 hit here after topping the singles
charts
> in the U.K. and Asia.
>
> "In a time when you don't see music videos on MTV as much as you used to,
> commercials can be seen as filling that niche," says Milner. "I think
you're
> going to see more new songs in commercials before they hit MTV or the
> radio."
>
> Adding up the numbers
>
> Here's how some songs climbed the Billboard charts after they were
featured
> on commercials:
>
> Artist: Basement Jaxx
> Product: Pringles
> Song featured: "Where's Your Head At?"
> Before ad: No. 52
> After ad: No. 3
>
> Artist: Wiseguys
> Product: Mitsubishi Eclipse Spyder 2001
> Song featured: "Start the Commotion"
> Before ad: No. 63
> After ad: No. 31
>
> Artist: Sting
> Product: Jaguar S-Type
> Song featured: "Desert Rose"
> Before ad: Not on charts
> After ad: No. 17
>
> Source: Billboard
>
>
>
>
Eddie Hill
"JohnG" <john...@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:ah3uc6$t8c$1...@slb6.atl.mindspring.net...
it's simply not true. there's no way to prove it's not true... i can't
prove that there's not a number that when placed after a dollar sign that
would cause me to do X... because there's no way to demonstrate or figure it
out from reason. it's all philosophy.
BUT, there's not way i'd ever, ever, ever let a commercial use something i
wrote. i know that to be true. that's all that matters to me. you
heathens do what you like. i'll remain loyal to bands that know the
difference between art and business.
eddie
> Regards,
>
> John
>
>
Vin
>can not make any money and get that. you know how many people in this
>country starve to death? pretty much none. malnourished, sure. dead.
>nuh-uh.
so comon, give it away
Vin
>bad guy?
>
>whatever
no a -stupid- guy, comon, follow.
like anyone on this planet would call you a sellout for selling your song,
see eddie, no one on this planet will have heard of you in the first place.
and no one will care.
>didn't i say i'd give the money to charity? oh, wait, yes i did.
so now ive convinced you that you would accept the check and you would
sell your song. now its just a matter of whether you'd give away
every nickle to charity.
>> you'd take the money
>> you'd take a million
>> you'd take $100,000
>> so would oshuns
>> so would anyone.
>
>not true. how many TV shows have pearl jam turned down? that's one
>example.
uh thats because they're fucking multimillionaires.
how many tv shows did they turn down in their first year or two?
>why should they try to set their children up for life? we're back to
>aristocracies now?
because they love them and they want the best for their children.
so what if they're children didnt work for it? they did.
and their children will work for their own children.
>> and yes, everyone and everything has a price.
>that's not true
name me something that doesn't have a price?
and no mass murders or setting off nuclear bombs..
Funkenhammer Express
> you asked me for other options, i gave them to you. im not going to sit here
> and defend each one because your dad goes to sleep early or whatever.
> chances are the 'jaguar crowd' (whatever that is) stay up for the swank late
> night guests, so he could have reached the same viewers. but im defending
> and i just said i wasnt gonna. ive made my point, im not gonna argue just
> because you love to argue with me.
Most Sting fans are older and don't want to stay up to 12:30am to see a
3-4 minute song.
Let's see, let's promote the CD with one 3-4 minute song that if you
miss it, you miss it....or put our song in a Jaguar commerical and have
it play at various times throughout the day and reach more people....
Yeah. What was he thinkin?
He COULD have baked all his fans some brownies and mailed them with a
free sampler CD....
Vin
>prove that there's not a number that when placed after a dollar sign that
>would cause me to do X... because there's no way to demonstrate or figure it
>out from reason. it's all philosophy.
>
>BUT, there's not way i'd ever, ever, ever let a commercial use something i
>wrote. i know that to be true. that's all that matters to me. you
>heathens do what you like. i'll remain loyal to bands that know the
>difference between art and business.
no? you'd never ever ever ever let a commercial use your art?
if not for a million?
a billion?
a trillion?
gee with a trillion bucks you could eradicate a few diseases or
cure world hunger for a few years. no wait, i forgot, your artistic
integrity would be more important. thats sommmmme ego you got
ah well, i know the truth, john knows the truth, and you know it too
eddie, you're just don;'t wanna admit it. you'd sell a song for $100
and a blowjob.
Eddie Hill
> news:GzE92...@news.boeing.com...
> >
> > > im sorry if this post seems to be in an angry tone, its not meant to
be.
> > > and yes, everyone and everything has a price.
> >
> > that's not true
> >
>
> Yes it is true Hill and it's naive to think otherwise.(or pollyanna-esque)
i just realized i have more to say!
why is it naive to believe that to some people money is not the most
important thing in the world. it's not to me, am i the only one? or am i
just lying to myself? i think neither. i know it's shocking to say
considering the climate we live in. a climate that allows one man to screw
over thousands of other people's lives because he can, and because it's
profitable to him. and he won't get in any trouble whatsoever. but i
refuse to think everyone's like that. if they are, then this whole thing
doesn't really matter anyhow, because we're all fucked.
i just hope someday people will realize this. i hope they realize that we
are not alive w/ the sole purpose of working to make some aristocracy
richer. i hope they realize that all their work, not the aristocracies, is
what makes everything in the world. i hope they realize this and rise up
against their masters and take back control.
then we'll crucify bastards like ken lay and george w bush
eddie
Eddie Hill
"Funkenhammer Express" <soulphis...@yahooMON.com> wrote in message
>
> > because engineering is my job, not my art. i have no problem making
money
> > at my job. i do have a problem using art to get rich.
> >
> > it's really not that hard, vin. follow along.
>
>
> So, if you got a record deal and went on tour, you would still work as
> an engineer to earn your keep?
>
no. if i had the chance to make a living playing music sure i'd do it. but
i wouldn't change the way i operated and made music to do it. i couldn't
continue to be an engineer and do those things. i wouldn't have the time.
i would do the following. take my income, put away a good chunk to
guarantee my retirement and health care during that time. rock stars don't
get health benefits or retire care, i'm betting. and my ability to get a
good engineering job would be diminished if i became big (it's not like the
dudes from pink floyd are going to be able to work for GE, and i think some
of them are engineers). i'd pay off my debts. buy a modest house
somewhere. get the guitar gear and equipment i needed to create. provide
for me immediate needs. that's it. no fleet of porsches. no gold chains.
none of that crap. any excess money i'd put to good use.
> Once you accept a record deal, that becomes your job.
right. your job is now to be an artist. you make money from your art.
once you start doing commercials and stuff you're making art to make money.
you're now an advertising agent. not an artist.
eddie
Funkenhammer Express
> Funkenhammer Express <soulphis...@yahooMON.com> wrote in message
>
>>Shannon wrote:
>>
>>>On Tue, 16 Jul 2002 11:04:28 -0400, "oshuns"
>>><osh...@info-internet.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>im the type of person that would hear that song in a commercial and sour
>>>>against it, never giving it a chance. apparently im in the minority,
>>>
>>>
>>>I wouldn't necessarily sour against the song but I wouldn't ever be
>>>able to take it seriously, or think of it as anything but that song in
>>>that commercial.
>>>
>>>And I'm so sick of people saying, "oh, well, what's the difference,
>>>they do videos, and those are just commercials!" Maybe they are, but
>>>at least they are promoting themselves and their own work, not potato
>>>chips or something.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>because it went from being uncharted to #17, but i just find this to be
>>>
> head
>
>>>>shaking news about sting. sting, the spokesman for the rainforest. i
>>>
> hope
>
>>>>he researched jaguar deeply. that, or got a fleet of free jags. =/
>>>
>>>
>>>Makes it a bit harder to take him seriously.
>>
>>
>>You took Sting seriously? How can you take someone who calls himself
>>"Sting" seriously?
>>
>
>
> hehe. sting is/was a serious dude. always there for the cause. deep
> insightful lyrics. and now....pushing jaguars.
That has nothing to do with anything. Blink 182 are capable of deep
insightful lyrics (adam's song, stay together for the kids), give to
charity, etc....but no one would blink (no pun intended) an eye if they
sold a song to a commercial.
Also, Sting did commericals for Compaq too....before the Jaguar
commercials.....
Funkenhammer Express
> "Funkenhammer Express" <soulphis...@yahooMON.com> wrote in message
> news:3D357C81...@yahooMON.com...
>
>>>because engineering is my job, not my art. i have no problem making
>>
> money
>
>>>at my job. i do have a problem using art to get rich.
>>>
>>>it's really not that hard, vin. follow along.
>>
>>
>>So, if you got a record deal and went on tour, you would still work as
>>an engineer to earn your keep?
>>
>
>
> no. if i had the chance to make a living playing music sure i'd do it. but
> i wouldn't change the way i operated and made music to do it. i couldn't
> continue to be an engineer and do those things. i wouldn't have the time.
Yes you could. Case in point. Johnny Staats. Recording artist for Giant
Records (before their nashville branch folded). Toured the US, featured
on the Today Show, USA Today, various other news sources.....kept his
job as a UPS driver. Scheduled his appearances around his days off and
vacation time. Still records (not for Giant of course) and still works
full time at UPS.
>
> i would do the following. take my income, put away a good chunk to
> guarantee my retirement and health care during that time. rock stars don't
> get health benefits or retire care, i'm betting. and my ability to get a
> good engineering job would be diminished if i became big (it's not like the
> dudes from pink floyd are going to be able to work for GE, and i think some
> of them are engineers). i'd pay off my debts. buy a modest house
> somewhere. get the guitar gear and equipment i needed to create. provide
> for me immediate needs. that's it. no fleet of porsches. no gold chains.
> none of that crap. any excess money i'd put to good use.
>
>
>
>>Once you accept a record deal, that becomes your job.
>
>
> right. your job is now to be an artist. you make money from your art.
> once you start doing commercials and stuff you're making art to make money.
> you're now an advertising agent. not an artist.
They didn't make the art to make commercials. It wasn't until after it
was made that someone approached them about using it to benefit both sides.
Are Bela Fleck and the Flecktones "sellouts" because they make music
that is used on the Weather Channel? What does their music have to do
with the weather?
Vin
>important thing in the world. it's not to me, am i the only one?
its not the most important thing in the world, far from it. there are
many things more important, health, friends, family, etc
but no ones saying you have to exchange the lives of your family for a
million bucks. A million dollars however IS more important than whatever
issues you have with your ONE song being used to sell a car. Thats like
me turning down a million dollars because the requirement would be
that I have to wear nike shoes for a year.
>over thousands of other people's lives because he can, and because it's
>profitable to him. and he won't get in any trouble whatsoever. but i
>refuse to think everyone's like that. if they are, then this whole thing
>doesn't really matter anyhow, because we're all fucked.
no ones talking about fucking anyone.
Eddie Hill
"Vin" <bja...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:GYgZ8.7318$o7.11...@news20.bellglobal.com...
i don't understand your reasoning on this one. especially since i don't
know what i need. what's the last military contract boeing won? have your
buddy john g give you a run down of the company from an investment
standpoint. his people think we just make commercial jets. it's
conceivable i'll need that money to buy food after i'm laid off.
i'm doing ok just not wasting money on SUVs and the like.
eddie
Eddie Hill
> >and because i wouldn't try to make it for them by selling out i'm
suddenly a
> >bad guy?
> >
> >whatever
>
> no a -stupid- guy, comon, follow.
> like anyone on this planet would call you a sellout for selling your song,
> see eddie, no one on this planet will have heard of you in the first
place.
> and no one will care.
>
but *I* care
i don't care if you wouldn't care if i sold it. i care that *I* care. and
like minded people care.
>
> >didn't i say i'd give the money to charity? oh, wait, yes i did.
>
> so now ive convinced you that you would accept the check and you would
> sell your song. now its just a matter of whether you'd give away
> every nickle to charity.
>
no, i still wouldn't look to sell it. but giving the money to charity would
be good. tell you what, if the corporation gives all their proceedes to
charity, then they can use the song.
>
> >> you'd take the money
> >> you'd take a million
> >> you'd take $100,000
> >> so would oshuns
> >> so would anyone.
> >
> >not true. how many TV shows have pearl jam turned down? that's one
> >example.
>
> uh thats because they're fucking multimillionaires.
> how many tv shows did they turn down in their first year or two?
>
and sting and moby aren't millionaires?
>
> >why should they try to set their children up for life? we're back to
> >aristocracies now?
>
> because they love them and they want the best for their children.
> so what if they're children didnt work for it? they did.
> and their children will work for their own children.
>
so you're perfectly fine w/ aristocracies. that's apparent.
shame those (mostly) went out of style about 200 years ago.
>
> >> and yes, everyone and everything has a price.
> >that's not true
>
> name me something that doesn't have a price?
> and no mass murders or setting off nuclear bombs..
>
ok.
how much would it take to get eddie vedder to play "...baby one more time"
on a phillip morris commercial?? i don't think he'd do it for any price.
eddie
>
>
Funkenhammer Express
> Funkenhammer Express <soulphis...@yahooMON.com> wrote in message
>
>>That has nothing to do with anything. Blink 182 are capable of deep
>>insightful lyrics (adam's song, stay together for the kids), give to
>>charity, etc....but no one would blink (no pun intended) an eye if they
>>sold a song to a commercial.
>>
>
>
>
> first better than ezra, and now blink 182? could you find anyone LESS on a
> par with sting to make comparisons with? eric clapton was closer.
Who I chose has NOTHING to do with it. They are artists. Just because
they aren't 50 years old doesn't mean anything.
>
>
>>Also, Sting did commericals for Compaq too....before the Jaguar
>>commercials.....
>>
>
>
> no shit. what song?
It was a commercial for his tour (sponsored by Compaq). It had these "ad
experts" with him in a car trying to come up with ways to promote his tour.
Then is said something about his tour and log on to some website for
more info..brought to you by Compaq.
Funkenhammer Express
> Funkenhammer Express <soulphis...@yahooMON.com> wrote in message
>
>>>you asked me for other options, i gave them to you. im not going to sit
>>
> here
>
>>>and defend each one because your dad goes to sleep early or whatever.
>>>chances are the 'jaguar crowd' (whatever that is) stay up for the swank
>>
> late
>
>>>night guests, so he could have reached the same viewers. but im
>>
> defending
>
>>>and i just said i wasnt gonna. ive made my point, im not gonna argue
>>
> just
>
>>>because you love to argue with me.
>>
>>
>>Most Sting fans are older and don't want to stay up to 12:30am to see a
>>3-4 minute song.
>
>
> on....police fans in the 80s ranged from preteens like me and my bro to
> what? i dont even know, and i was there. there are PLENTY of us late
> 20somethings and thirtysomethings who can use our walkers to sit down in our
> la-z-boys to watch the late night shows. this is silly, we are arguing
> what sting fans would and wouldnt do, and we arent sting fans. cant you
> just accept that i think the move was cheesy and you dont and move on? you
> arent going to change my mind with bullshit notions like that above.
Police does not equal Sting.
> he was thinking: damn, that jag looks nice in my driveway and DAMN my
> wallet sure is alot heavier. oh, and oh yeah. my fans will now hear that
> lovely song the radio wasnt playing for what it is and see it as the great
> artistic entity it is, not a jingle.
Vin
>know what i need. what's the last military contract boeing won? have your
>buddy john g give you a run down of the company from an investment
>standpoint. his people think we just make commercial jets. it's
>conceivable i'll need that money to buy food after i'm laid off.
>
>i'm doing ok just not wasting money on SUVs and the like.
right, now see how a million dollars would help you?
if you had a family, children, a million dollars would make sure
no matter what, if you lost your job, your wife lost her job
you would always be able to take care of your family and not
have to worry about money or sell your house, etc
but thats not worth that nasty taste in your mouth that youd get
from having your song in a commercial eh?
bah!
Eddie Hill
> >it's simply not true. there's no way to prove it's not true... i can't
> >prove that there's not a number that when placed after a dollar sign that
> >would cause me to do X... because there's no way to demonstrate or figure
it
> >out from reason. it's all philosophy.
> >
> >BUT, there's not way i'd ever, ever, ever let a commercial use something
i
> >wrote. i know that to be true. that's all that matters to me. you
> >heathens do what you like. i'll remain loyal to bands that know the
> >difference between art and business.
>
> no? you'd never ever ever ever let a commercial use your art?
> if not for a million?
> a billion?
> a trillion?
>
no, vin. i wouldn't.
> gee with a trillion bucks you could eradicate a few diseases or
> cure world hunger
how? you could do neither. throwing money into research for a new drug to
cure a disease isn't going to do any good. pharmacy companies already throw
TONS of money into that to find whatever to make money. more money's not
going to help.
world hunger isn't goin anywhere either. there's more then enough food.
the problem is political. no amount of money is going to fix that.
>for a few years. no wait, i forgot, your artistic
> integrity would be more important. thats sommmmme ego you got
>
> ah well, i know the truth, john knows the truth, and you know it too
> eddie, you're just don;'t wanna admit it. you'd sell a song for $100
> and a blowjob.
>
if you want to believe that, go ahead. but you're wrong.
eddie
Vin
>i don't care if you wouldn't care if i sold it. i care that *I* care. and
>like minded people care.
thats pretty egotistical
you'd pass up the chance to help your family or people in need because
of your warped sense of personal artistic integrity..
>no, i still wouldn't look to sell it. but giving the money to charity would
>be good. tell you what, if the corporation gives all their proceedes to
>charity, then they can use the song.
there you are being selfish again
>> >not true. how many TV shows have pearl jam turned down? that's one
>> >example.
>>
>> uh thats because they're fucking multimillionaires.
>> how many tv shows did they turn down in their first year or two?
>>
>
>and sting and moby aren't millionaires?
im not arguing that eddie
i specifically said sting was greedy
>> because they love them and they want the best for their children.
>> so what if they're children didnt work for it? they did.
>> and their children will work for their own children.
>>
>
>so you're perfectly fine w/ aristocracies. that's apparent.
>shame those (mostly) went out of style about 200 years ago.
if i work hard and can make life easier for the people i love,
then i will. if that makes me a bad guy, so be it.
>how much would it take to get eddie vedder to play "...baby one more time"
>on a phillip morris commercial?? i don't think he'd do it for any price.
sure he would, unless he were stupid
because he would look at the pros and the cons
cons: dissapointing a bunch of retarded fans and losing a little self respect
promoting cigarette smoking (which he already does by smoking himself)
pros: hmm, for a 10 billion dollar paycheck he do 10 billion times more
good than he did wrong by doing the commercial. the math works.
unless he overvalues his "self respect" like you do and can't see past
that no matter how much good he can do with the money. he could launch the
biggest anti smoking campaign ever, using the tabacoo companies money! oh the
irony. i know i know, thats already being done. he could do so much,
and all it would cost is a dent in his image.
Vin
>> if not for a million?
>> a billion?
>> a trillion?
>>
>
>no, vin. i wouldn't.
geez, you're even dumber than i thought
>how? you could do neither. throwing money into research for a new drug to
>cure a disease isn't going to do any good. pharmacy companies already throw
>TONS of money into that to find whatever to make money. more money's not
>going to help.
>
>world hunger isn't goin anywhere either. there's more then enough food.
>the problem is political. no amount of money is going to fix that.
you could pay for new water purification systems and hiv medication,
contraceptives, birth control, education and reasonable health care
for all of south africa. theres an example, save millions of lives.
but you're ego is more important than that, so i guess not.
you could build shelters, youth centers, drug rehab centers etc
across north america and help millions of people in your
own backyard if you're the type with that kind of "help americans"
first attitude.. but no, you can't, your ego's in the way
this all ridiculously hypothetical but the fact that you would rather
NOT sell your song because you're not a sell out for a trillion dollars
over being able to help millions of people is pretty pathetic don't ya think.
i guess eddie gene hill only looks out for eddie gene hill
and eddie gene hills interests must come first NO MATTER WHAT!
later!
Chuck A
>why must everyone try and be a smart alec? you have to be smart before
>you can be a smart alec. people always get the order wrong.
You can call me Alec anytime you want, Vin.
--A
"I've been listening to my gut all my life and you know what I've realized? My
guts have shit for brains."
Eddie Hill
"Funkenhammer Express" <soulphis...@yahooMON.com> wrote in message
> Eddie Hill wrote:
> > "Funkenhammer Express" <soulphis...@yahooMON.com> wrote in message
> > news:3D357C81...@yahooMON.com...
> >
> >
> >
but
> > i wouldn't change the way i operated and made music to do it. i
couldn't
> > continue to be an engineer and do those things. i wouldn't have the
time.
>
>
> Yes you could. Case in point. Johnny Staats. Recording artist for Giant
> Records (before their nashville branch folded). Toured the US, featured
> on the Today Show, USA Today, various other news sources.....kept his
> job as a UPS driver. Scheduled his appearances around his days off and
> vacation time. Still records (not for Giant of course) and still works
> full time at UPS.
>
i'm betting that's not a 9 to 5 job, is it? or 7 to 3:30 in my case.
wouldn't work. plus, it's just dumb.
you and vin don't have an argument, so you're trying to get me to argue
about a less-defendable point of view. nice try, but i'm not buying.
> >
> > i would do the following. take my income, put away a good chunk to
> > guarantee my retirement and health care during that time. rock stars
don't
> > get health benefits or retire care, i'm betting. and my ability to get
a
> > good engineering job would be diminished if i became big (it's not like
the
> > dudes from pink floyd are going to be able to work for GE, and i think
some
> > of them are engineers). i'd pay off my debts. buy a modest house
> > somewhere. get the guitar gear and equipment i needed to create.
provide
> > for me immediate needs. that's it. no fleet of porsches. no gold
chains.
> > none of that crap. any excess money i'd put to good use.
> >
> >
> >
> >>Once you accept a record deal, that becomes your job.
> >
> >
> > right. your job is now to be an artist. you make money from your art.
> > once you start doing commercials and stuff you're making art to make
money.
> > you're now an advertising agent. not an artist.
>
>
> They didn't make the art to make commercials. It wasn't until after it
> was made that someone approached them about using it to benefit both
sides.
>
and they when they accepted they degraded their art to an ad. right. so
they did carry out actions that caused them to make commercials, not art.
it's pretty simple.
> Are Bela Fleck and the Flecktones "sellouts" because they make music
> that is used on the Weather Channel? What does their music have to do
> with the weather?
>
yup. they must be.
eddie
Eddie Hill
> >why is it naive to believe that to some people money is not the most
> >important thing in the world. it's not to me, am i the only one?
>
> its not the most important thing in the world, far from it. there are
> many things more important, health, friends, family, etc
> but no ones saying you have to exchange the lives of your family for a
> million bucks. A million dollars however IS more important than whatever
> issues you have with your ONE song being used to sell a car.
to you. not to me. i value art more then commercials. you don't. simple.
slap a pepsi logo on the mona lisa, by god! she's just setting there in
italy! put her to work!
> Thats like
> me turning down a million dollars because the requirement would be
> that I have to wear nike shoes for a year.
>
>
> >over thousands of other people's lives because he can, and because it's
> >profitable to him. and he won't get in any trouble whatsoever. but i
> >refuse to think everyone's like that. if they are, then this whole thing
> >doesn't really matter anyhow, because we're all fucked.
>
> no ones talking about fucking anyone.
>
it's part of the same mindset that money's more important then everything
else.
eddie
Eddie Hill
no. it's not. because it undermines everything that would have went into
that song.
> bah!
>
i'm sorry you can't understand. i really am. i guess you've just never
made something that was yours and you wouldn't just sell it to someone so
they could make money off it. sorry.
eddie
Eddie Hill
> >but *I* care
> >i don't care if you wouldn't care if i sold it. i care that *I* care.
and
> >like minded people care.
>
> thats pretty egotistical
it's egotistical that i don't care what you think? because you've convinced
me you have no morals or ethics about this kind of thing? so i shouldn't
worry about your opinion. that's egotistical?
> you'd pass up the chance to help your family or people in need because
> of your warped sense of personal artistic integrity..
>
by that same line of reasoning because i'm not taking a second job at night
and giving all that money to homeless people i don't care that they're on
the street. you're making no sense. you can do better then this.
>
>
> >no, i still wouldn't look to sell it. but giving the money to charity
would
> >be good. tell you what, if the corporation gives all their proceedes to
> >charity, then they can use the song.
>
> there you are being selfish again
see above.
>
> >> >not true. how many TV shows have pearl jam turned down? that's one
> >> >example.
> >>
> >> uh thats because they're fucking multimillionaires.
> >> how many tv shows did they turn down in their first year or two?
> >>
> >
> >and sting and moby aren't millionaires?
>
> im not arguing that eddie
> i specifically said sting was greedy
>
so what's the difference between vedder and company and sting?
oh, that's right, one has artistic integrity.
>
> >> because they love them and they want the best for their children.
> >> so what if they're children didnt work for it? they did.
> >> and their children will work for their own children.
> >>
> >
> >so you're perfectly fine w/ aristocracies. that's apparent.
> >shame those (mostly) went out of style about 200 years ago.
>
> if i work hard and can make life easier for the people i love,
> then i will. if that makes me a bad guy, so be it.
>
which of course comes w/ the expense of denying a lot of other people
opportunities. that's what class systems do. it's great to be on the top,
but you have to remember you're hurting those below you.
>
> >how much would it take to get eddie vedder to play "...baby one more
time"
> >on a phillip morris commercial?? i don't think he'd do it for any price.
>
> sure he would, unless he were stupid
> because he would look at the pros and the cons
>
> cons: dissapointing a bunch of retarded fans and losing a little self
respect
> promoting cigarette smoking (which he already does by smoking
himself)
>
> pros: hmm, for a 10 billion dollar paycheck he do 10 billion times more
> good than he did wrong by doing the commercial. the math works.
> unless he overvalues his "self respect" like you do and can't see past
> that no matter how much good he can do with the money. he could launch the
> biggest anti smoking campaign ever, using the tabacoo companies money! oh
the
> irony. i know i know, thats already being done. he could do so much,
> and all it would cost is a dent in his image.
>
it would dent his integrity. and that's all you really have.
eddie
Funkenhammer Express
> Funkenhammer Express <soulphis...@yahooMON.com> wrote in message
>
>>oshuns wrote:
>>
>>>Funkenhammer Express <soulphis...@yahooMON.com> wrote in message
>>>news:3D35A0EE...@yahooMON.com...
>>>
>>>
>>>>That has nothing to do with anything. Blink 182 are capable of deep
>>>>insightful lyrics (adam's song, stay together for the kids), give to
>>>>charity, etc....but no one would blink (no pun intended) an eye if they
>>>>sold a song to a commercial.
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>well, it had to do with what shannon said about taking sting less
>>
> seriously.
>
>>>first better than ezra, and now blink 182? could you find anyone LESS
>>
> on a
>
>>>par with sting to make comparisons with? eric clapton was closer.
>>
>>Who I chose has NOTHING to do with it. They are artists. Just because
>>they aren't 50 years old doesn't mean anything.
>
>
> havent been around in the music business and they are far from anywhere near
> sting's stature in terms of what theyve contributed to the music world and
> who theyve reached. if they did a commercial that wouldnt throw anyone for
> a loop...because they dont have a long standing image as someone who usually
> stays away from this kind of thing.
Artists are artists. Better Than Ezra are not kids, they are at least in
their early-mid thirties.
I like how you keep adding stipulations to the "value-meter"
>
>
>>It was a commercial for his tour (sponsored by Compaq). It had these "ad
>>experts" with him in a car trying to come up with ways to promote his
>
> tour.
>
>>Then is said something about his tour and log on to some website for
>>more info..brought to you by Compaq.
>
>
> so he was in a commercial for his own tour...sponsored by compaq...but was
> one of his songs used in the ad like in the background or at all?
Yes. As was a live performance clip at the very end.
Funkenhammer Express
> Funkenhammer Express <soulphis...@yahooMON.com> wrote in message
>
>>oshuns wrote:
>>
>>>hahaha! id like to see your bar chart on the ages of sting fans. come
>>>on....police fans in the 80s ranged from preteens like me and my bro to
>>>what? i dont even know, and i was there. there are PLENTY of us late
>>>20somethings and thirtysomethings who can use our walkers to sit down in
>>
> our
>
>>>la-z-boys to watch the late night shows. this is silly, we are arguing
>>>what sting fans would and wouldnt do, and we arent sting fans. cant you
>>>just accept that i think the move was cheesy and you dont and move on?
>>
> you
>
>>>arent going to change my mind with bullshit notions like that above.
>>
>>
>>Police does not equal Sting.
>
>
> police are higher than your numbers for sting fans who cant stay up to watch
> the musician they love on late night tv. =P
I LOVE the Police, but I fuckin' despise Sting.
Some people who love Sting are older. I know plenty of people that don't
stay up to watch late night talk shows for a 3 minute song at the end.
You are saying that everyone that is a Sting fan should make a point to
stay up and watch in hopes that Sting is on...hell, if you don't watch
the show a few times that week, you don't know who the guests are 99% of
the time.
Eddie Hill
you are truely an idiot. this argument isn't even worth the time responding
to in my normal line by line reasonable way.
eddie
>
>
vin
>to in my normal line by line reasonable way.
you said you wouldnt do it for a million, a billion, or even a trillion dollars
im pretty sure you're the one thats stupid
anyone?
vin
and i guess you can call me betty
JohnG
>
> it's simply not true. there's no way to prove it's not true... i can't
> prove that there's not a number that when placed after a dollar sign that
> would cause me to do X... because there's no way to demonstrate or figure
it
> out from reason. it's all philosophy.
>
You see the weakness of your argument then, don't you?
It's a paradox. In fact, having no way to prove it's not true proves it's
actual existence.
Everyone has a price dude. Admit it. "Your" price might be higher than a
corporate shill, but, man, everyone has a breaking point where the bucks
will outweigh everything else.
A company goes to Pearl Jam and says, "Dude, we love your music and we want
to sponsor your tour, here's a million?"
They say, "Whatever, man, we're not selling out."
In response, "Ok, how about 50 million?"
Do you think that PJ wouldn't take that cash? You wouldn't?
Everyone has a price Eddie, until you admit it that fact, it's clear that
your price might be lower than you think.
John
vin
>me you have no morals or ethics about this kind of thing? so i shouldn't
>worry about your opinion. that's egotistical?
how am i the one who's devoid of morals and ethics? im the one thats capable
of thinking of other people, aka NOT ONLY MYSELF. It's real simple ed, this
is how it is
the bad caused by accepting a million dollars for your song:
eddie hill compromises his artistic integrity and beliefs, and helps
sell a few cars
the good: one million dollars can help a lot of people, one million dollars
can pay for 4 heart transplants for people who don't have insurance
(just saw john q, horrible movie)
so that means eddie, that you feel that your "artistic integrity and morals"
is worth more than the lives of four human beings. yes thats right,
a million dollars would save thousands of lives in a third world country,
you feel you're integrity more important than that.
that makes you egotistical and your your perversed sense of morals and
ethics is dead wrong.
>by that same line of reasoning because i'm not taking a second job at night
>and giving all that money to homeless people i don't care that they're on
>the street. you're making no sense. you can do better then this.
if you can, you should. many people sacrifice their time for charity
and selling a song doesn't take up any of your time.
>so what's the difference between vedder and company and sting?
>oh, that's right, one has artistic integrity.
no, ones greedy and ones less greedy. they're both greedy why?
because they both have multimillion dollar fortunes locked away
in THEIR bank accounts.
see you would respect someone who makes music and happens to make
money at it and keeps it all to himself or most of it like eddie
vedder over someone who did all he could to make as much money
as possible with his music but gave it ALL or most of it all away
to charity, even if it meant high ticket prices and advertisements
and endorsements.
you would. currently theres no artist that does this but you
still place more importance on the act vs the consquences.
>> if i work hard and can make life easier for the people i love,
>> then i will. if that makes me a bad guy, so be it.
>
>which of course comes w/ the expense of denying a lot of other people
>opportunities. that's what class systems do. it's great to be on the top,
>but you have to remember you're hurting those below you.
how the fuck am i hurting anyone below me?
>it would dent his integrity. and that's all you really have.
>
and again to you personal integrity is worth more than saving thousands of
lives, THAT is egotistical and self centered.
JohnG
>
> why is it naive to believe that to some people money is not the most
> important thing in the world. it's not to me, am i the only one? or am i
> just lying to myself? i think neither.
It's naive to think that all people can't be bought and the world is a
perfect place.
John
vin
>that song.
>
>> bah!
>>
>
>i'm sorry you can't understand. i really am. i guess you've just never
>made something that was yours and you wouldn't just sell it to someone so
>they could make money off it. sorry.
sure i have, and i wouldnt care so long as i made money. im not that
selfish, i think of the good i can do with the proceeds and 99.9999%
of the time it easily outweighs the cons and the crushing blow to my
ego and artistic integrity.
vin
>> >important thing in the world. it's not to me, am i the only one?
>>
>> its not the most important thing in the world, far from it. there are
>> many things more important, health, friends, family, etc
>> but no ones saying you have to exchange the lives of your family for a
>> million bucks. A million dollars however IS more important than whatever
>> issues you have with your ONE song being used to sell a car.
>
>to you. not to me. i value art more then commercials. you don't. simple.
what are you dense?
>slap a pepsi logo on the mona lisa, by god! she's just setting there in
>italy! put her to work!
you really are
>> no ones talking about fucking anyone.
>>
>
>it's part of the same mindset that money's more important then everything
>else.
dont you get it, its not the MONEY thats more important than everything,
its what you can DO with the money thats more important than everything else.
money can save lives, and thats the most important thing in the world.
far more important than you and your bullshit song
JohnG
>
> slap a pepsi logo on the mona lisa, by god! she's just setting there in
> italy! put her to work!
>
If Pepsi put up enough money, you can bet your ass she would be holding a
Pepsi can. However, it wouldn't be prudent spending for Pepsi to do that
b/c it would cost TOO MUCH, so they put a can in Britney Spear's hand for a
few million.
>
> it's part of the same mindset that money's more important then everything
> else.
>
IT'S NOT MORE IMPORTANT THAN EVERYTHING! You're not listening. However, at
certain levels, prices, or whatever, IT DOES BECOME MORE IMPORTANT THAN
EVERYTHING.
For example, if someone offered you $5,000 to have you bang them in the ass
you probably wouldn't do it. However, what if that person offered 5,000,000
just to see if you would take the money and bang an ass? Would you do it?
If not, what if they offered you $50,000,000? At some point, money does
become everything because your price has been reached. Once that happens,
greed takes over and rational thought disappears.(this is why everyone can
be bought, some just are more expensive than others)
I would bang an ass for 5 million and I wouldn't care who found out. It
doesn't make me a sell out, it makes me a person that is able to weigh costs
and benefits of all actions and reactions! For five million, I would deal
with the reactions for the upside. For $5,000, I wouldn't.
It can happen to anyone and you're no different.
Later,
John
JohnG
>
> but *I* care
>
> i don't care if you wouldn't care if i sold it. i care that *I* care.
and
> like minded people care.
>
You wouldn't care if someone offered you enough.
> no, i still wouldn't look to sell it. but giving the money to charity
would
> be good. tell you what, if the corporation gives all their proceedes to
> charity, then they can use the song.
>
Thus, your price is reached but give it to charity.
>
> and sting and moby aren't millionaires?
>
Damn, man, you're proving my argument everytime you open your mouth. SOME
HAVE HIGHER PRICES THAN OTHERS. Pearl Jam doesn't have to sell out b/c they
have made it big already and are happy to live with what they have. If they
didn't, they would be selling their songs if they could. Note: They made a
Jeremy video and Jeremy was their first single. They didn't make a Given to
Fly video, which was their 25th single. I wonder why???
Moby and Sting wanted more and they got it b/c their price was lower.
>
> how much would it take to get eddie vedder to play "...baby one more time"
> on a phillip morris commercial?? i don't think he'd do it for any price.
>
He would do it for $150,000,000. Sure, that's an insane amount of money,
but at some point the money would be so high he would have to take it. His
reason to doing such a thing would actually be, "Dude, they offered me over
a hundred million dollars, I would be an idiot if I didn't take it, now I
can help get Nader into the White House."
And on and on and on. . . .sorry Eddie, you're being stubborn and it's
making you think irrationally.
John
Its just Carl
Do you think that PJ wouldn't take that cash? You wouldn't?
Everyone has a price Eddie, until you admit it that fact, it's clear that
your price might be lower than you think.>>>
I would take the cash and use it all to fund things that i felt were good.
Pump money into arts programs ..build a studio for bands to record in... spend
money to put into homeless shelters / drug abuse clinics.. i wouldnt keep a
cent of it.
If your gonna sell out might as well go the Robin Hood path of it. For me i
would care less about the money.. if it were for personal motivations only i
wouldnt sell the song for any amount.. then again who really owns music or a
song... i think the whole idea is silly but artists have to get paid somehow in
our wonderful world
--
CjS "If you've got enough naivety and ya got conviction then the answer is
perfect for you" Greg Gaffin
::Sigh::
Holtz
vin wrote:
I'd like to see him turn it down with a check sitting right in front of him. If
you could do it I'd be impressed that you stick to your principles.
--
Holtz.
Remove BUDSELIGISTHEDEVIL to reply
My bootleg list,
http://www.tapetrader.com/Holtz
Shannon
<soulphis...@yahooMON.com> wrote:
>> Only you youngsters. :) And you might be more wrong than you think
>> about that...listen to the lyrics.
>
>
>The lyrics have nothing to do with it.
Sure it does. The song is about a guy in a band who falls in love with
one of the women working with them. It's *about* a traveling rock
band, in some ways.
And I was referring to your comment about everyone remembering that
song because of that movie. Lots of us knew and loved that song long
before Cameron Crowe was famous.
>Cameron saw something in Elton's song that would benefit his movie, not
>the other way around.
Right. So? I already said I don't have a problem with it when it adds
to the movie. Did Cameron Crowe say, "oh, I'll use this song, it will
really bring in more money," or did he say, "This song captures the
mood of this particular moment in the story." ? I'm guessing it was
the latter. Which I said I don't have a problem with. So what exactly
are you arguing here now?
>That song was used to sell that movie. Weeks before the release, MTV2
Sure, but that's not why it was in the movie to begin with.
Shannon
**
The thieves...the filthy little thieves! They've stolen my Precious, and
we wants it!