The Hypocrisy of Caryn Rose
iyi...@yahoo.com
> I did slam her for something she's done. And I know you read it because
> you replied to it. She certainly did warrant being slammed, she claimed
> that she didn't have any interest in hearing the new cd before it came
> out yet she asked for the fucking mp3. What do you suppose she would
> have done w/ that mp3, printed it out in ascii and framed it?
i don't think that's quite how it happened? i think she asked about the mp3
and then a few days later went public with the "don't yield" position. i
could be wrong and i'm sure you will correct me if i am.
perhaps, just perhaps there was something more to the story? like maybe she
wanted to get the mp3 and hear the track and then a few days later after
seeing the way the issue was hitting the community and spending some serious
time thinking about what it means to be a fan, she changed her mind?
at this point i'm not going to defend her anymore save to say that this a
strange and ever changing world and people are strange and ever changing and i
think it was whitman that said something like, "do i contradict myself? very
well then i contradict myself, (i am large, i contain multitudes.)"
i'm not an english major, so that might be off a tad, but i think the point is
there...people change their minds, rexamine their feelings...
> As far as my old url being "classy", it was given to me by a friend, who
> was generous enough to give me a bunch of free web space to do with as I
> pleased. I decided to put Pearl Jam mp3s there and help spread the
> music, which is more than you've done for the community as a whole.
ok, so i was stretching it with the url quip, but it was an obnoxious url and
adding the name, "headcase" didn't help...
since you don't know me, you don't know what i've done for the community. i'm
almost tempted to give you some details, but that wouldn't much be in keeping
with the spirit of the act. however, since you're going to take me to task
either way, i'll go ahead and say that i know of at least a few folks that
were psyched to get a freebie one way trade of a certain unamed upcoming
release months before it was available and just weeks after they had gotten
completely screwed by a moron from this ng (whose name just happened to rhyme
with dick).
anyway!!! the point is...enough with the caryn shit already, don't rehash
shit that happened back in december, as i recall she already got raked over
the coals for that one, can't we have some kind of double jeapordy rule or
something? slam someone once and then let it go!!!
please return to the regularly scheduled show now in progress.
thanks.
-----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==-----
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Rodrigo Zamora
On Tue, 19 May 1998 19:07:55 GMT, jzbl...@flash.net (Jett Karma)
wrote:
>seth <sap...@injersey.com> did proclaim:
>..........
>> I
>>also think people are unable to separate artists from their art and that
>>you run the risk of missing out on something great if you can't view art
>>from your own perspective. I'm not about to stop listening to Richard
>>Wagner's compositions because the man was a racist and an anti-Semite; I
>>get the feeling some of you would.
>>
>.............
>>/seth
>*************
>I don't think it's quite such an easy matter to look at the work of a
>contemporary artist; and, I am not certain that such work can be
>looked at objectively, especially, ironically enough, by anyone that
>really cares about it. All this talk about separating art from the
>artist seems fine to a point. I personally would find it appalling to
>support a living artist whom I knew to have a political/social agenda
>that I opposed, particularly if that artist were trying to advance
>that agenda through their work in some way. For example, I feel that
>I would be morally bankrupt (to say nothing of stupid beyond belief)
>if I bought albums by (gave my money to) a Skinhead band, no matter
>how talented or how groundbreaking the music might be. Might I be
>missing out on some great art? Yes, I might well; but, the world is
>filled with talent. I think I could find something that would fit
>the "great art" bill elsewhere.
>You are right. Some of us have concerns which override the
>"objective" worth of art because, objectively, these concerns are
>ultimately more important to us as individuals and to us as the
>greater (contemporary) whole.
>
>--Jett
>
>
Personally, I think it is impossible to separate the art from the
artist. I believe that the artist is the art or, perhaps I should
say, the art is the artist. When an artist presents a view that is
his or her own, then that is usually quite obvious. However, when
an artist presents a view which is not his/her own, then it is
because the artist wants you to see the alternate view. I believe
that a good artist is always in control of what is expressed. If
a work of art is left obscure or up to personal interpretation
(perspective) then it is because the artist chose
to do so. I believe that art is the expression of the inner self,
and, as such, cannot be separated from the artist.
rz - who is absolutely not an artist (can't sing or draw a decent
circle)
headcase
iyi...@yahoo.com wrote:
> i don't think that's quite how it happened? i think she asked about the mp3
> and then a few days later went public with the "don't yield" position. i
> could be wrong and i'm sure you will correct me if i am.
> ok, so i was stretching it with the url quip, but it was an obnoxious url and
> adding the name, "headcase" didn't help...
Yes you were stretching it w/ the url quip. Do you know how Apache (the
web server)
assigns the path to index.html? /home/username/public_html/ - I didn't
choose the
username Headcase for my web page either, the site admin did.
> were psyched to get a freebie one way trade of a certain unamed upcoming
> release months before it was available and just weeks after they had gotten
> completely screwed by a moron from this ng (whose name just happened to rhyme
> with dick).
Ok, you sent a few fans a free copy of an album (Yield?). I put up
tracks on a
web page that thousands of people downloaded. That's not to say that one
of
us did the community more of a service, but I think the people that
downloaded
the tracks didn't mind that they were getting it from a slighly odd url.
Besides
the whole thing (url) was a joke. Was it *that* offensive? No one else
seemed to
take offense, and if they did they certainly didn't make it vocal. And
it certainly
was easy to remember, you did.
hc
Itchygrrl
Caryn, OOPS, I mean "hiwat...@hotmail.com" wrote:
<<Perhaps $100 is "big money" to you. How do you know that it's "big money" to
Caryn? She tells us on her web site that she spent $300 on ONE Golden Circle
Ticket to Dead Man Walking. I know that she happens to have a good job that
pays well.>>
Excuse me, I never said that $100 is "big money" in all situations. I simply
said that $100 is a ridiculous amount of money to pay just to be able to meet
somebody. Maybe I'm not into hero worship the way some people are, but I can't
imagine paying money to meet ANYBODY... well, no, maybe I'd pay that kind of
money to go back in time to meet Carl Jung, or Robert Kennedy, or Martin Luther
King, so I could pick their brains, but to pay money to meet some guy who plays
guitar? Give me a break.
Alessiana
repost from 5/20/98 below
rz...@bellsouth.net (Rodrigo Zamora) wrote:
facinating... rodrigo. i agree with you. good artists are in control
and yet art is an expression of the inner self. it sounds
contradictory, but it is not.
at any rate. i have a lot of trouble with wagner because his ideas as
expressed IN his work are abhorrent to me. sure, he has written some
lovely melodies... for certain. and yes he contributed important
ideas on representing characters through the leit motif but, so what?
too me, this is not such a great leap of the mind... and it does
nothing to elevate the ideas he presented. sure, we are all products
of our time but some souls rise above the shit. wanger's was not one
of them
contrary to what hatfield may say (i guess i have a bone to pick with
him regarding ratm), art does comment upon, reflect and influence
society. certainly the band we embrace has risen above their time to
a degree and had an impact as well.
conscience and art DO matter. god, such things matter more then
anything... otherwise we are just walking and singing automations
devoid of thought
ahhh... just an opinion. of course ; )
aless - certainly one with precious little control. an artist, but not
a good one.
LellowYedbetter
These are the post that I really hate to come across. It sickens me
to see such crap on this newsgroup. For the Love of God, I hope that
no one in Pearl Jam sees this tuff.
itch...@aol.com (Itchygrrl) wrote:
>In a message dated 5-14-98, ms lil...@aol.com writes:
><<Apparently Caryn isn't able to face ANYTHING in a straightforward manner.
>How come you haven't reported about your experience in the JAMPAC Pool Tourney?
> How come you haven't shared the details with us about your first round loss to
>Stone and Regan?>>
>Oh, fuck, I can't stop laughing... please don't tell me that Caryn Rose, who
>has repeatedly stated (in her typical high-and-mighty attitude) that she would
>never EVER want to speak to anybody in the band because it would take away from
>the music, who accuses everybody who even THINKS about asking a personal
>question about the band of being a life-threatening stalker, and who has
>established (as part of her Book of Rules) that nobody should even dare to
>breathe the same rarified air as one of the band members, PAID BIG MONEY (I
>believe it cost $100 to enter that tournament) TO MEET ONE OF THEM. Now, I,
>unlike Caryn, do not feel that there is anything inherently wrong with wanting
>to meet somebody who you admire, and I believe that JAMPAC is a great cause.
>If Caryn had never taken the stance that she was so ABOVE trying to meet the
>band, I'd be applauding her for contributing to such a worthy organization and
>getting to meet one of her idols at the same time, but the HYPOCRISY of
>somebody who chastises everybody else for not playing by *her* rules and then
>goes and does EXACTLY the sort of thing that she criticizes others for is
>incredible. Then again, it's not the least bit surprising. And I'm guessing
>that she's going to try to weasel out of this by trying to say that she didn't
>know that she would play against Stone, but I believe that about as much as I
>believe that she did it "because it's a good cause."
Jared
I'm not gonna play your games. Read what I said, and it will become
clear to you. Get off your Caryn sucks thing, because quite frankly it
reflects quite badly upon you.
--
Jared
____________________________________
Even Flow - Pearl Jam RealAudio
http://evenflow.simplenet.com
Tom and Justine
How come you haven't reported about your experience in the JAMPAC Pool
Tourney?
How come you haven't shared the details with us about your first round
loss to Stone and Regan?>>
IN LIGHT OF YOUR COMMENTS ON CARYN PLEASE NOTE THIS REVIEW OF THE
POOL TOURNAMENT - TAKE NOTE AS TO THE FIRST ROUND MATCH UP THAT WAS
MS. ROSE.
"Last night was the annual JAMPAC charity pool tournament in Seattle,
held at the Garage... among the local musicians playing was Stone
Gossard. He and his partner, Regan Hagar, ended up finishing third
overall, they were the highest finishing "celebrity" team. The first
team that they played against were these two really fanzy type girls who
kept yakking at them and it was obvious that Stone was getting annoyed
with them, but once that game was over, he seemed to have a good time."
Itchygrrl
In a message dated 5-14-98, ms lil...@aol.com writes:
<<Apparently Caryn isn't able to face ANYTHING in a straightforward manner.
How come you haven't reported about your experience in the JAMPAC Pool Tourney?
How come you haven't shared the details with us about your first round loss to
Stone and Regan?>>
Oh, fuck, I can't stop laughing... please don't tell me that Caryn Rose, who
Jared
Itchygrrl wrote:
> Oh, fuck, I can't stop laughing... please don't tell me that Caryn Rose, who
> has repeatedly stated (in her typical high-and-mighty attitude) that she would
> never EVER want to speak to anybody in the band because it would take away from
> the music, who accuses everybody who even THINKS about asking a personal
> question about the band of being a life-threatening stalker, and who has
> established (as part of her Book of Rules) that nobody should even dare to
> breathe the same rarified air as one of the band members, PAID BIG MONEY (I
> believe it cost $100 to enter that tournament) TO MEET ONE OF THEM. Now, I,
> unlike Caryn, do not feel that there is anything inherently wrong with wanting
> to meet somebody who you admire, and I believe that JAMPAC is a great cause.
> If Caryn had never taken the stance that she was so ABOVE trying to meet the
> band, I'd be applauding her for contributing to such a worthy organization and
> getting to meet one of her idols at the same time, but the HYPOCRISY of
> somebody who chastises everybody else for not playing by *her* rules and then
> goes and does EXACTLY the sort of thing that she criticizes others for is
> incredible. Then again, it's not the least bit surprising. And I'm guessing
> that she's going to try to weasel out of this by trying to say that she didn't
> know that she would play against Stone, but I believe that about as much as I
> believe that she did it "because it's a good cause."
Do you know Caryn's intentions? That was a charity event, maybe she felt
like making a contribution to a charity? She wasn't guaranteed an
oportunity to meet the band. I have already discussed it with her, and
she *DREW* Stone and Regan...it was luck (or destiny :P) I don't think
she "payed $100 to meet Stone" and your and other peoples attempts to
randomly defame Caryn is nothing short of rude, sickening, and
ridiculous. Please stop this pollution.
mir...@inter.nl.net
I won't quote anything from the message. Just want to say 2 things:
1. take your flames to email, not the newsgroup
2. it doesn't show any 'style' when you need to use the names of fellow
newsgroup users/posters in the header of your message. Imo it's against
Netiquette. Especially cowardous when using a false name or nickname yourself.
don't mind the spelling or language mistakes. It's the content that counts ;)
groetjes,
Mirella :)
Dfiant1
On Fri, May 15, 1998 19:44 EDT, Jared <even...@hotmail.com>
wrote:
>That was a charity event, maybe she felt
>like making a contribution to a charity?
Okay, good point. Can you tell me any other charities she gives to? (ones
that don't have PJ members playing pool?)
> She wasn't guaranteed an
>oportunity to meet the band.
She wasn't? How can you play pool with band members and not meet them?
> I don't think
>she "payed $100 to meet Stone"
So she payed $100 in the name of loving pool and charity? If anyone else had
done the same, she would start in with the "psycho stalker" rant, and we all
know it.
iyi...@yahoo.com
> Okay, good point. Can you tell me any other charities she gives to? (ones
> that don't have PJ members playing pool?)
like that is any of your business anyway??? maybe she prefers to give to
those charities that her favorite band contributes to because maybe she got
the point from the band themselves that giving a little here and there can't
hurt? so what if she only gives to pj endorsed charities? that's a good
thing in and of itself. don't reduce a charitable offering regardless of the
circumstances. do you think anyone in the band would have done the thing in
the first place if they didn't want to motivate a few of their fans to kick in
on a cause they thought worthy?
> > She wasn't guaranteed an
> >oportunity to meet the band.
>
> She wasn't? How can you play pool with band members and not meet them?
not draw their names and then get eliminated or have them get eliminated? and
it's not like the band would be opposed to saying hi to a few fans that kicked
in the money to help out. i could be wrong, but i doubt she brought a stack
of albums for them to sign or anything (and i wouldn't think it a big deal
even if she did).
> If anyone else had done the same, she would start in with the "psycho
> stalker" rant, and we all know it.
i don't know that.
you know...i agree that caryn does come off poorly sometimes and doesn't
always come off very nice and i can see how she pisses some people off, but
enough is enough with this shit. in my opinion she is a highly valued member
of the pj community. not only that, but have you checked out the five
horizons guide to the summer tour called going mobile?
http://www.fivehorizons.com/tour/98/roadtrip/index.html
that contribution alone is worth her saying or doing whatever the hell she
wants!!!
truth is...it'd be pretty damn cool and she'd be pretty damn deserving if the
band ever took note of how much she has given to the pj community and decided
to hook her up with a few shows and some backstage passes.
god help her if that ever happens as people like you would no doubt fill this
ng with every last bad thing you could ever think about to say about her and
probably for no better reason than your petty jealousy.
oh by the way, fuck you.
that's just my opinion.
;-)
Laurie Hester
Ah, the net is the funniest place. Why don't we all just stick to saying things
which we would feel comfortable saying to a person to their face? It's real easy
to say nasty things about people anonymously on a newsgroup. I find it hard to
believe these people are all so nasty in their real lives.
Having just come back from a month in Scotland, where I experienced how nice
people can be, and then I come here and read 1450 out of 1500 messages that are
pure nastiness, it is very depressing.
It is very hard sometimes to get your point across in writing, and I, too, have
written things that sound mean or arrogant when I later read them. No need to go
off on a personal rant against someone because maybe, just maybe, you've
misunderstood or they've not expressed themselves well.
Be nice. Don't respond to flamers, and they'll go away. Before you write, think
about whether you would say it in person to someone.
I'm sure everyone would appreciate it. There, the lecture from mom is over.
Laurie
Dfiant1 wrote:
> On Fri, May 15, 1998 19:44 EDT, Jared <even...@hotmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> >That was a charity event, maybe she felt
> >like making a contribution to a charity?
>
> Okay, good point. Can you tell me any other charities she gives to? (ones
> that don't have PJ members playing pool?)
>
> > She wasn't guaranteed an
> >oportunity to meet the band.
>
> She wasn't? How can you play pool with band members and not meet them?
>
> > I don't think
> >she "payed $100 to meet Stone"
>
> So she payed $100 in the name of loving pool and charity? If anyone else had
TB215
The original post criticizing Caryn NEVER said meeting PJ or contributing to
charity was bad. He was merely making a point about Caryn's apparent hypocrisy
(hence the name of the thread) as she engaged in the very activities that she
has flamed people for in the past.
-someone who refuses to buy into the notion that Caryn walks on water in this
newsgroup.
Dfiant1
iyi...@yahoo.com wrote:
> don't reduce a charitable offering regardless of the
>circumstances. do you think anyone in the band would have done the thing in
>the first place if they didn't want to motivate a few of their fans to kick
>in
>on a cause they thought worthy?
I agree with that wholeheartedly. I wasn't saying giving to charity was a bad
thing.
> i could be wrong, but i doubt she brought a stack
>of albums for them to sign or anything (and i wouldn't think it a big deal
>even if she did).
But, if the situations were reversed and it was someone else rather than her, I
have a feeling that she would have criticized that person for doing the same.
She has posted before that she fears even driving through the same neighborhood
that Ed lives in for fear of knowing too much.
>that contribution alone is worth her saying or doing whatever the hell she
>wants!!!
Not true. She should not be exempt from criticism because she happens to have
a website that contains good information. Are you saying that those here who
simply don't have the time or the resources to do pages such as the 5H site and
therefore have not "contributed" as much as Caryn should take the criticism she
and others through at them for going beyond what they (Caryn, etc.) feel are
"disrespecting the bands privacy"?
>truth is...it'd be pretty damn cool and she'd be pretty damn deserving if the
>band ever took note of how much she has given to the pj community and decided
>to hook her up with a few shows and some backstage passes.
>
>
So the rest of us can fuck ourselves because we're not as worthy as Caryn?
See, this is the attitude that makes me and others flame up around here. I'm
not even flaming at Caryn at this point. I'm flaming at you because you're the
type of people that give her the sense of being somehow more worthy and
valuable than the rest of us who are perhaps just as big of fans (and some
maybe even more) but don't give you anything that you personally can use.
There are a lot of people with a lot of webpages that have just as much heart
and soul and blood in them as the 5H site but simply do not have the resources
or time or whatever to do the things that 5H has done, but each are unique and
valuable in their own way and should not be excluded while Caryn and 5H are
hailed and held above the others. It's just not fair to those who have done
their best to do their own individual web pages. While Caryn's research and
content is expansive and vast and valuable, it doesn't bring the value down of
any of the other smaller sites.
>god help her if that ever happens as people like you would no doubt fill this
>ng with every last bad thing you could ever think about to say about her
It's not like I'm calling her names or telling her to go fuck herself or
anything of the sort. I'm simply agreeing that whole pool tournament thing was
a bit hipocritical in light of all of her past raves and rants concerning
staying out of the bands personal space and all the shit she gave people who
wanted to know what his house looked like, or even where The Garage was. Yet,
it's okay for her to indulge in going where the band is (even if it was for
charity) and paying for the chance to meet them.
>oh by the way, fuck you.
And with that comment alone, you have cheapened every word prior to it no
matter how eloquent and well-versed it was. You're a good writer and have some
good points and arguments. Why'd you have to throw it all out the window with
an immature, "My-dad- -could- beat- your- dad- up" ending?
Dfiant1
Jared <even...@hotmail.com> on Sat, May 16, 1998 00:52 EDT
wrote:
>I'm not gonna play your games.
I don't remember personally challenging YOU to any.
> Get off your Caryn sucks thing, because quite frankly it
>reflects quite badly upon you.
I don't remember saying "Caryn sucks", either. Perhaps if you read what I
wrote, it would be clear to you.
headcase
Dfiant1 wrote: <big snip>
Dfiantl: regardless as to what others might say I just thought I'd let
you know that there are some of us out here that agree with every word
you've spoken. One of my personal fav's (eg. of Caryns' Hypocrisy) was
when she asked in the ng before Yield came out, if anyone had a MP3 of
G.T.F., then later in a "rant" on 5H decided that "... how the internet
community is behaving around it and in parallel, is putting a bad taste
in our mouths" (exact quote) in regards to people getting/asking for
advanced copies of Yield. It never ends with this girl. Yes, I think
she has a fantastic and valuable web site. No I do not think that puts
her above any other Pearl Jam fan, no matter how big or small.
iyi...@yahoo.com
is this the headcase that had the drunknakedsluts url?
that was one classy url!
and that note to sony about not taking those clips down! boy, total class.
no doubt we'd find you on this thread...
> One of my personal fav's (eg. of Caryns' Hypocrisy) was
> when she asked in the ng before Yield came out, if anyone had a MP3 of
> G.T.F., then later in a "rant" on 5H decided that "... how the internet
> community is behaving around it and in parallel, is putting a bad taste
> in our mouths" (exact quote) in regards to people getting/asking for
> advanced copies of Yield.
and dragging up age old shit!!! let it go...please!
the facts concerning that whole incident are undoubtedly obscured and
certainly not worth talking about!!!
> Yes, I think she has a fantastic and valuable web site. No I do not think
> that puts her above any other Pearl Jam fan, no matter how big or small.
by that same logic then it should not make her open to more or less criticism
than any other fan (like all of you that buy bootleg t-shirts and continue to
mosh even after ed asks you to stop).
MindyCY1
hiwat...@hotmail.com said:
> What's really funny here
>is that if Caryn HADN'T made that initial post, the tape would probably still
>be uncirculated. Yes, she has a big mouth sometimes, but that post that got
>LeAnn so upset was not one of them.
hiwattamps,
as caryn's friend, you speak from experience. and you insist that others
speak from experience, and not speculation. fair enough. only, i suggest you
heed your own advice.
you point out that we should not speculate about the actions (real or
imagined) or motives of people. well then, perhaps you should not speculate
about the motives/emotions/actions of leann either. whether or not she is
capable of shelling out $100, whether or not she was actually "jealous" of
caryn's ability to, whether or not leann felt the need to "show off," and
whether or not the tape would/would not be circulating if leann was not "upset"
w/ caryn is all based on pure speculation. and THAT, i believe, is precisely
what you deplore. regarding those who flaming caryn, you ask, "SHOW ME THE
EVIDENCE!" fair enough. only thing is, i'm asking the same thing right back.
what are *your* basing your attacks on?
it's only logical that you practice what you preach.
and btw, just for the record, i have no doubt in my mind the tape would be
circulating whether or not leann was actually "instigated" by caryn's post
regarding a tape of the arospace show. how do i know? from EXPERIENCE.
something you supposedly value.
i am not here to flame caryn or defend leann. god knows, leann has more than
a decent writing skills. but i'm only here to point out a bit of hypocrisy on
your part.
-mindy
smash up my kitchen, i sit here feeling my pulse
wondering what it would feel like if it stopped.
i write a list of stuff i need: ice cubes. neil young. toothpaste.
~ Woven Soles Poetry Zine ~
http://members.aol.com/mindycy1/poetry/index.html
seth
This is quite amusing.
Has your estimation of Pearl Jam sunk so far that the only common bond
you can find is a mutual dislike for Ms. Rose? Is there not a tour, or a
single, SOMETHING to occupy your minds?
You claim she's a hypocrite - with the disclaimer that her (and Ms.
Bruns') website is fantastic. You claim her (and Ms. Bruns') website is
fantastic - with the disclaimer that you dislike her personally. But
what does her personality have to do with her connection with Pearl Jam?
She has never, to my knowledge, claimed to represent the PJ fan
community. In fact, I'm quite sure she's proud of the opposite. If you
read Five Horizons, you'll know she and the other 4 Horizons built the
website because they knew they could do a better job than anyone else
had yet done.
As such, it's HER website. She reserves the right to say whatever she
pleases on or about her site; she reserves the right to reject
submissions to the site with no explanation; and she reserves the right
to maintain any opinion about Pearl Jam, fanship, and macaroni and
cheese that she wants. And if she changes her mind, so what? If she goes
to a public charity event in her home town, so what? If Pearl Jam
decides they're going to give up the fight against Ticketmaster, so
what?
I find Ms. Rose to be intelligent, talented, and extremely opinionated -
all of these things make working with her a great experience. But that's
my opinion. I see Five Horizons as a superbly written, passionate site,
as well as an invaluable source of information. But that's my opinion. I
also think people are unable to separate artists from their art and that
you run the risk of missing out on something great if you can't view art
from your own perspective. I'm not about to stop listening to Richard
Wagner's compositions because the man was a racist and an anti-Semite; I
get the feeling some of you would.
Let me summarize: turn off the computer, go outside and get some air,
and find something more significant to worry about than how it affects
you that Ms. Rose shot some pool. If you can't, that's why they make
mail filters. And you may want to change your default page to something
other than 5h.
/seth
iyi...@yahoo.com
> But, if the situations were reversed and it was someone else rather than
> her, I have a feeling that she would have criticized that person for doing
> the same. She has posted before that she fears even driving through the same
> neighborhood that Ed lives in for fear of knowing too much.
pure speculation. that's part of what kills me about this whole nonsense.
people slamming other people before they've even done anything to warrant
slamming!!! i'm off the opinion that caryn has become somewhat of a preffered
target for the pettier of us. it's bad enough that people can't stop
from ragging her for things she does do, but the ragging her for things
she hasn't done is over the top.
caryn worrying about driving through ed's neighborhood is a much different
issue that i'm going to address in just a minute.
> So the rest of us can fuck ourselves because we're not as worthy as Caryn?
no, you can fuck yourselves for making her the constant source of abuse.
> It's not like I'm calling her names or telling her to go fuck herself or
> anything of the sort. I'm simply agreeing that whole pool tournament thing
> was a bit hipocritical in light of all of her past raves and rants
> concerning staying out of the bands personal space and all the shit she gave
> people who wanted to know what his house looked like, or even where The
> Garage was. Yet, it's okay for her to indulge in going where the band is
> (even if it was for charity) and paying for the chance to meet them.
here's where you're really missing the point...it's the difference between the
band's personal space and a public appearance!!! let that sink in...
caryn saying to stay out of their personal space is NOT the same as caryn
saying stay out of their public space. when the band agrees to do a public
event - like a pool tournament for charity - they are agreeing to a public
appearance and are most likely well aware of the fact that their fans are
going to be there!!! huge difference than trying to find ed's house so you
can stand out front and gawk...
furthermore - i would argue that even in public appearances, there are
boundaries and i think caryn is very sensitive about respecting those
boundaries. most fans are not. in fact, most fans ignore the personal
boundaries as well, which is bad for all of us as pj has made it clear that
they demand their boundaries be respected and if fans can't do that, the band
will forgo public appearances. this of course applies to the media as well.
> And with that comment alone, you have cheapened every word prior to it no
> matter how eloquent and well-versed it was. You're a good writer and have
> some good points and arguments. Why'd you have to throw it all out the
> window with an immature, "My-dad- -could- beat- your- dad- up" ending?
because i'm just getting sick of this ng being a forum for personal attacks
against caryn. most if not every attack i've seen has been vicious and
without merit. like this thread for instance. none of you noticed the
difference between a public appearance and the private life of the band? come
on now, is everyone really that blind? my personal opinion is that everyone
just ignored that fact so as to have a chance to slam caryn yet again.
not only that, but because this newsgroup tends to be extremely immature,
i thought i ought to throw it a bone.
gotta get back to the jammin'! mfc just started and it's one of my favorites!
sliding out of reverse into drive, this wheel will be turning right, then
straight, off in the sunset she'll ride...
i love that line!!!
headcase
iyi...@yahoo.com wrote:
> pure speculation. that's part of what kills me about this whole nonsense.
> people slamming other people before they've even done anything to warrant
> slamming!!!
I did slam her for something she's done. And I know you read it because
you replied to it. She certainly did warrant being slammed, she claimed
that she didn't have any interest in hearing the new cd before it came
out yet she asked for the fucking mp3. What do you suppose she would
have done w/ that mp3, printed it out in ascii and framed it?
As far as my old url being "classy", it was given to me by a friend, who
was generous enough to give me a bunch of free web space to do with as I
pleased. I decided to put Pearl Jam mp3s there and help spread the
music, which is more than you've done for the community as a whole.
headcase
i'm off the opinion that caryn has become somewhat of a preffered
> target for the pettier of us. it's bad enough that people can't stop
> from ragging her for things she does do, but the ragging her for things
> she hasn't done is over the t
>
Jett Karma
>also think people are unable to separate artists from their art and that
>you run the risk of missing out on something great if you can't view art
>from your own perspective. I'm not about to stop listening to Richard
>Wagner's compositions because the man was a racist and an anti-Semite; I
>get the feeling some of you would.
>
>/seth
*************
Richard Wagner has been dead for quite some time. When you purchase
an album of his work, Mr. Wagner doesn't stand to benefit a whole lot
and neither do any causes he might have wished to push--although you
now might stand to benefit quite a bit, if his work is your cup of
tea. The fact that he's dead, and that it's the 1990s rather than the
1850s, makes it a whole lot easier to look at his work objectively.
I don't think it's quite such an easy matter to look at the work of a
contemporary artist; and, I am not certain that such work can be
looked at objectively, especially, ironically enough, by anyone that
really cares about it. All this talk about separating art from the
artist seems fine to a point. I personally would find it appalling to
support a living artist whom I knew to have a political/social agenda
that I opposed, particularly if that artist were trying to advance
that agenda through their work in some way. For example, I feel that
I would be morally bankrupt (to say nothing of stupid beyond belief)
if I bought albums by (gave my money to) a Skinhead band, no matter
how talented or how groundbreaking the music might be. Might I be
missing out on some great art? Yes, I might well; but, the world is
filled with talent. I think I could find something that would fit
the "great art" bill elsewhere.
The world is also filled with suffering. Art is a source of social
commentary and has great potential to be used as a tool to either
lessen human suffering or to make it worse. Art, particularly popular
art, quite often takes on very political dimensions. Those
dimensions, in turn, imply consequences with respect to choices we
make as lovers/consumers of popular art.
hiwat...@hotmail.com
In article <199805152254...@ladder01.news.aol.com>,
itch...@aol.com (Itchygrrl) wrote:
> Oh, fuck, I can't stop laughing... please don't tell me that Caryn Rose, who
> has repeatedly stated (in her typical high-and-mighty attitude) that she
would
> never EVER want to speak to anybody in the band because it would take away
from
> the music,
That's not what she said. I was in Maui with her when she had the discussion
you're referring to with Greg Cabral, and he said something like, "You should
be up there on the side of the stage," and she looked horrified and said,
"God, no, it would totally change the way we do the web page."
She never wanted to meet the band as "Caryn from 5h". She despises the "Caryn
from 5h" label. She's just Caryn. She's just a fan.
>who accuses everybody who even THINKS about asking a personal
> question about the band of being a life-threatening stalker, and who has
> established (as part of her Book of Rules) that nobody should even dare to
> breathe the same rarified air as one of the band members,
Go ahead and show me where she said that. I, on the other hand, have email
from a mailing list in 1996, where some guy posted that he ran into Eddie
outside of the Showbox, and that Eddie autographed his tshirt. He got
attacked by everyone on that mailing list for lying, and Caryn was one of the
few people who said, hey, I was there, I saw those kids right after it
happened, and it was very fucking cool.
She has never said that meeting that band is wrong. She *has* said, and
perhaps overstated the case for impact, that hanging out side of their houses
and following them around the city is wrong.
However, if you can find ANY email from her, usenet, mailing list, public or
private, web page, where she says, "YOU CANNOT MEET THE BAND", then I will
take back every word that I have just said.
>PAID BIG MONEY (I
> believe it cost $100 to enter that tournament)
Perhaps $100 is "big money" to you. How do you know that it's "big money" to
Caryn? She tells us on her web site that she spent $300 on ONE Golden Circle
Ticket to Dead Man Walking. I know that she happens to have a good job that
pays well.
>TO MEET ONE OF THEM. Now, I,
> unlike Caryn, do not feel that there is anything inherently wrong with
> wanting
> to meet somebody who you admire, and I believe that JAMPAC is a great cause.
> If Caryn had never taken the stance that she was so ABOVE trying to meet the
> band,
You are reading into her words. You are totally making this up. Go and read
what she wrote about Eddie giving her the guitar pick in Maui - go read her
review of the AROSPACE show. She went up to Ed and said "hi" just like
everyone else did.
You are just so full of shit it isn't funny.
She sent me (and some of her other friends) email that night when she got back
from the pool tournament. Not everything Caryn does as a Pearl Jam fan is
public property. You, and MsLily, are just jealous that you didn't have the
$100 lying around to afford to do this. If she HAD posted, you would have
attacked her for bragging! So she keeps it quiet, and this is what happens.
And for all of you demanding that Caryn tell us who else she gives money to,
go ahead and list the financial contributions you've made this year, in
public, for everyone to see. Who the hell are you to make such a demand? I
know that she's donating her time and professional skills to work on a web
site for The Race For The Cure. It's not money, but it's time and energy and
*skills* that she has that are in demand. That's putting your money where
your mouth is.
I look at the people in this thread... all people who have always had a very
vocal hatred towards Caryn. No surprise there. I talked to her on the phone
last night, and she said, laughing, "Don't tell me, I don't want to know, I
know someone is forging posts from me, I know I'm being burned at the stake
again, I've sworn the thing off for lent --or something." I called her
because I was worried that this crap would make her stop being a PJ fan, or
make her stop working on Five Horizons. She told me she'd just bought the
newly remixed and remastered "Cheap Trick Live At Budokan" and was annoying
her neighbors while she worked on fixing the 5h Message Board. So, I'm not
too worried.
What's so funny is that none of you people posting about her actually know
her, you've never met her. LeAnn, you didn't even have the guts to go over
and introduce yourself at the pool shoot, now did you? It's very, very easy
to be soooo brave behind a fake name (guilty as charged) and behind a
keyboard. She is, at the end of the day, one of the nicest, loudest, warmest
people I have ever met. She gives the best hugs, and is one of the best
friends (not that she's my best friend) I know. She also has one of the
biggest mouths and can be incredibly crabby. (See, I can say this, because I
know she's not reading the newsgroup). But you people, who don't know her,
are carrying on like she's the anti-christ.
This whole thing started because Caryn said she didn't see any tapers waiting
on line for AROSPACE, and LeAnn needed to show off. What's really funny here
is that if Caryn HADN'T made that initial post, the tape would probably still
be uncirculated. Yes, she has a big mouth sometimes, but that post that got
LeAnn so upset was not one of them.
Signing off,
The Kim Thayil Mercenary Society
Ms lily911
It strikes me as rather ODD that someone who ISN'T Caryn Rose knows SO much
about her...kind of eerie, dontcha think? I mean, if I was Caryn, I'd be
wondering what kind of stalker hiwat...@hotmail.com IS. And such a memory
for detail! I'm truly impressed. Do you keep a scrapbook?
> You, and MsLily, are just jealous that you didn't have the
>$100 lying around to afford to do this.
All that was missing from this statement was the "nyah, nyah, nyah" at the end.
After chastizing Itch...@aol.com for even IMPLYING that $100 could be
considered a lot of money, you assume neither of us would have had it. How
did I get lumped in with that? Are all AOL users just one big headless entity
to you? BTW, anyone can make a hotmail.com account, so AOLers aren't the only
ones who can come in here with a new and different identity, are they,
"highwatt"?
>I look at the people in this thread... all people who have always had a very
>vocal hatred towards Caryn. No surprise there. I talked to her on the phone
>last night, and she said, laughing, "Don't tell me, I don't want to know, I
>know someone is forging posts from me, I know I'm being burned at the stake
>again, I've sworn the thing off for lent --or something." I called her
>because I was worried that this crap would make her stop being a PJ fan, or
>make her stop working on Five Horizons. She told me she'd just bought the
>newly remixed and remastered "Cheap Trick Live At Budokan" and was annoying
>her neighbors while she worked on fixing the 5h Message Board. So, I'm not
>too worried.
Gee, thanks for the update. But if Caryn wanted us to know that personal stuff
about her, wouldn't she have put it on her web page?
>
>What's so funny is that none of you people posting about her actually know
>her, you've never met her. LeAnn, you didn't even have the guts to go over
>and introduce yourself at the pool shoot, now did you? It's very, very easy
>to be soooo brave behind a fake name (guilty as charged) and behind a
>keyboard.
Hey, this is my master AOL account; I've had it for 4 years. Fake name? Why
the fuck would I need a fake name? Do I sound timid with this one? Let me
know; I'll speak up. I post in the AOL folder and this newsgroup under this
name because unlike SOME people," highwatt," I'm not afraid of the sound of my
own voice.
And why should I have introduced myself to Caryn? I don't KNOW her. I didn't
go there to meet her. I went there to watch a pool tourney and she showed up
as one of the participants. I didn't want to steal her thunder by reporting on
her game in here ahead of her, but she had been reluctant to do so, so I had to
ask.
> She is, at the end of the day, one of the nicest, loudest, warmest
>people I have ever met. She gives the best hugs, and is one of >the best
friends (not that she's my best friend) I know. She also >has one of the
biggest mouths and can be incredibly crabby. >(See, I can say this, because I
know she's not reading the >newsgroup). But you people, who don't know her,
>are carrying on like she's the anti-christ.
Like I said...for not even being her best friend, you seem awfully INVOLVED
with her life. I think it's kind of sad that either Caryn feels compelled to
dispatch you here or YOU feel compelled to speak for her. Sad and odd. And
not very believable.
>This whole thing started because Caryn said she didn't see any tapers waiting
>on line for AROSPACE, and LeAnn needed to show off. What's >really funny here
is that if Caryn HADN'T made that initial post, >the tape would probably still
be uncirculated.
Perhaps the reason you didn't see any tapers online, Caryn, is because the
venue technically wasn't allowing taping. I know PJ has a longstanding rule
about audio taping being allowed, but at both club shows I've gone to in the
past 2 years, there were signs up that said NO RECORDERS and security at the
Showbox in '96 was pretty thorough about checking, even tho the staff at
ARO.space wasn't. <some of us still made it in to the Showbox, obviously, but
not without some effort and advance planning>
And the absolute frosting on the cake to this whole psycho drama is the fact
that now, you are saying that if CARYN hadn't said there was no tape, I would
have kept my shitty tape all to myself. Fuck me, if that isn't the most
pathetic and self-serving idea in the world. I suppose that Caryn also booked
the club and hired the band? Gee, tell her "thanks" from me for getting Matt
Cameron to step in when Jack Irons dropped out, will ya? Tell her I appreciate
her getting the band on Letterman this year. Tell her how much I'm looking
forward to the tour she set up for the band this summer and how much I'm
enjoying the album she wrote, recorded and produced, "Yield."
> Yes, she has a big mouth sometimes, but that post that got LeAnn >so upset
was not one of them.
Well, there are so many people speaking FOR Caryn these days, how am I supposed
to tell the difference? I've thought about it alot, and my reaction to that
initial post stands. For all I know, it was another of Caryn's "friends."
It needs to be divided into 2 parts, tho. The part about the tape goes to
whichever one of Caryn's personalities, or her ventriloquist dummy friends,
posted about the tape. The part about Synergy goes to Caryn herself. I think
she deserved that part.
As for me, the tree that was started is supposed to generate around 100 tapes.
I initially said that I wanted to make sure everyone in the newsgroup would
get a copy. I hope you all do, and I believe I've done MORE than my part to
make that happen. Please do your best to hook up with a tree or make a trade
for the tape, as there will be tons of low gen copies out there. In a month
or two, if you've been totally unable to find a copy, well...look me up. But
for now, please make an effort to get in on a tree or trade. = ) Several of
my friends were surprised that I was so anxious to mass produce this tape. I
am still so fucking grateful for having been able to experience the show in
person, I felt like it was only fair to share. Please forgive my ignorance.
LeAnn