I need your help! The Boxer's "mystery" lyrics.
David94727
I was channel surfing the other night when I came across Paul Simon on VH1
singing "The Boxer". I was surprised to hear him sing some lyrics I had
never heard before. They came before the last few lines that starts
"...and i'm laying out my winter clothes..." What are these lyrics, and
are they recorded on any albums? I would appreciate any help anyone can
give me. Thanks.
Susana Liamas Olague
It says:
"Now the years are rolling by me,
They are rocking evenly,
I am older than I once was
And younger than I'll be,
That's not unusual.
No, it isn't strange,
After changes upon changes
We are more or less the same,
After changes we are more or less the same."
Susana. : )
David94727 (david...@aol.com) wrote:
: I was channel surfing the other night when I came across Paul Simon on VH1
Rue Barb
I assume you mean these.
"Now the years are rolling by me. They are rocking evenly
I am older than I once was, younger than I'll be
but that's not unusual.
No it isn't strange, after changes upon changes
we are more or less the same.
After changes we are more or less the same.
These lyrics take the place of the instrumental on the original
recording. You can find them on both "Live Rhymin-Paul Simon in
concert" (1974) as well as the first S&G concert in central park.
(1981) I am not sure about the concert in 91, however. My memory says
no, but please don't take my opinion for it. I am sure of the other
two, but I can't tell you why he added the words or what the story
behind it is. Perhaps someone else can.
RB
Martin L Gallacher
David94727 wrote:
>
> I was channel surfing the other night when I came across Paul Simon on VH1
> singing "The Boxer". I was surprised to hear him sing some lyrics I had
> never heard before. They came before the last few lines that starts
> "...and i'm laying out my winter clothes..." What are these lyrics, and
> are they recorded on any albums? I would appreciate any help anyone can
> give me. Thanks.
>
> Dave...@aol.com
This 'extra' verse is now normally played. I'm sure it is on Central
Park and possibly Live Rhymin' though I'd need to check when I get home.
Martin
Ania Oleksik
On Wed, 23 Apr 1997 14:51:47 -0500, Rue Barb <br...@isd.net>
wrote:
>I can't tell you why he added the words or what the story
>behind it is. Perhaps someone else can.
> RB
It is interesting to note that Paul did not ADD these lyrics,
but rather LEFT them OUT on the BOTW album. I know
of at least one bootleg of the 1969 period (that is BEFORE
the release of BOTW) in which Paul and Art do sing
this part. So it was an original part of the song.
Because Paul sang it on every recording released after
BOTW, it is tempting to think that leaving it out on
the BOTW album was a (technical) mistake during
the production.
Michel Couzijn
Amsterdam, The Netherlands
VicPFS
Now the years are rolling by me,
They are rocking evenly.
I am older than I once was,
but that's not unusual.
After changes upon changes
We are more or less the same.
After changes we are more or less the same.
These lyrics are only on two recordings that I know of, Paul Simon-Live
Rhymin from 1973 and The Concert in Central Park from 1981. The meaning
seems pretty
forthright but I have found no writings that allude them and no one has
apparently questioned Paul as to their source for he had not commented on
them in any interview that I am familiar with.
Edson Computers Place
Roger wrote:
>
> Could SOMEBODY _please_ write an FAQ and add this question? This seems to
> come up every 2 or 3 weeks!
Hey, I'll write it ... it's just that there are probably several people
on this group more qualified to do it than me. How's this: I'll post a
draft version, and then it can be bandied about.
BTW, Rudi Riet has a concise FAQ, but one that answers the most
pertinent questions at
http://www.connix.com/~rdrie/Frames/simon/news.html
Greg
Ania Oleksik
On Fri, 25 Apr 1997 12:31:17 GMT, cou...@ilo.uva.nl (Michel
Couzijn) wrote:
>In think that my booklet suggests 'No it isn't strange...' (Central
>Park). But I have to look it up when I get home.
>(to be continued)
I have just checked it, and indeed, it is 'No it isn't strange..'
(Central Park) instead of 'Nor is it strange...' (Central Park).
Fung, Joseph
well, the lyrics are: and i'm laying out my winter clothes, wishing i was
gone, going home, where the New York city's winters aren't bleeding me,
leading me, going home.
These lyrics are found in all version of "The Boxer"
>
> Dave...@aol.com
>
>
Johan Groenewald
to...@ifm.liu.se (Tomas Lundberg) wrote:
>
>In article <335f0e4...@news0.xs4all.nl>, aole...@xs4all.nl
>As I recall it, Art wrote the flute solo (see the interview with
>Art at http://www.itsystem.se/guitar/garfunkel.interview.html
>about 1/4 from the end) and Paul liked it so much that they
>decided to replace one verse with the flute solo on the BOTW
>album.
>
>Also, isn't the flute solo version the one featured on the
>"Concert in the Park" album?
Hi
The Boxer was 5 minutes 8 seconds. That's pretty close to the limits
of a 45rpm 7" single.
The following comes to mind:
* The Lai, Lai, Lai coda at the end of the song is 1 minute 20 seconds
(just hear the bass coming in at exactly 1 minute. Paul once mentioned
in an interview that he had some disagreement with Art and Roy Halee
on the "long ending" of the song, but being in a production trio he
abided by the majority decision in favor of the long ending.
* Art composed the flute solo and Paul wanted to please Art (funny the
album liner didn't mention Art's composing ability)
* The "long ending" and "Art flute solo" stretched the song to such an
extent that an added verse would have exceeded the time limitations of
a 45.
Pity that the guys didn't include the verse on the Bridge Over
Troubled Water LP.
Regards
Johan Groenewald
Ania Oleksik
On 25 Apr 1997 09:12:30 GMT, to...@ifm.liu.se (Tomas Lundberg)
wrote:
>Paul liked [the flute solo composed by Art] so much that they
>decided to replace one verse with the flute solo on the BOTW
>album.
An interesting account for the lyrics that were 'left out'. Have
they explicitly stated leaving the verse out in favor of the
solo?
>Also, isn't the flute solo version the one featured on the
>"Concert in the Park" album?
There is no flute solo on the Central Park album. Don't know
about Simon's 'Concert in the Park' album though. But if that
version would have both the flute solo AND the extra verse, it
would partially refute your theory: it would show that there is
room enough within the song for the both of them..
Ania Oleksik
>Roger wrote:
>> Could SOMEBODY _please_ write an FAQ
>Hey, I'll write it
I'd rather write a FAQ than go to work...
Yes I would
If I could
I surely would....
But alas, work is waiting for me all the time - including
most of the weekends. So all I can do is promise to
contribute to your draft version, Greg. Leave a question
or two open for me to fire upon.
Success!
Johan Groenewald
Michel Couzijn wrote:
>There is no flute solo on the Central Park album. Don't know
>about Simon's 'Concert in the Park' album though. But if that
>version would have both the flute solo AND the extra verse, it
>would partially refute your theory: it would show that there is
>room enough within the song for the both of them.
You are right that there is no flute solo on Central Park -- the solo
is merely played on another instrument.
The added verse and the solo are not incompatible and mutually
exclusive. Both fit the song and both were featured on all live
recordings. On "Live Rhymin" the solo was played on panflute.
The point is that the original studio recording was produced for a 45
single and subsequent recordings were free of the time constraints
imposed by 45 single technology.
Johan Groenewadl
Johan Groenewald
vic...@aol.com (VicPFS) wrote:
Hi
Paul wrote "The Boxer" when he was about 28 and I have often thought
that "Now the years are rolling by me" sounds more approppriate for a
persons in their 30s. It made a lot of sense to me when it was first
officially featured on "Live Rhymin" and after the breakup.
Johan Groenewald
Johan Groenewald
R Lapworth <rlap...@zetnet.co.uk> wrote:
>I was really confused when I read this thread, "flute solo"??
>
>I have never thought it was a flute, it always sounded like a
>synthesiser to me. So I got out my copy and I'm playing it right now,
>and it still sounds like a synthesiser.
Hi
I agree that this "flute" solo is confusing. That solo was payed on
pan pipes on "Live Rhymin", synth on "Concert in Central Park" and an
electronic instrument, which looks like some sort of electronic sax,
on the "Born at the Right Time Tour. The soloist at this occasion was
the same guy who played the sax solo on "Still Crazy" at Central Park
(Hey, I should know his name, but the album was stolen a few years ago
-- Brecker?). That "Duncan" like sound of the pan pipes by Los Incas
on the "Live Rhymin" version is still my favorite rendition of the
solo.
Now the question. What is a recordist? Is it someone who plays a
recorder, or is it someone who records a record. The album credits of
Bridge credits Ted Brosnam as the recordist. However, "featured
musicians" are specified as: Paul Simon, Fred Carter, Hal Blaine, Joe
Osborn, Larry Knetchel, Jimmy Haskell and Ernie Freeman.
If a recordist is someone who plays a recorder (that keyboard reed
instrument made by Hohner), maybe the Boxer solo was done on a
recorder.
Any comments?
Regards
Johan Groenewald
>
Tomas Lundberg
(Throughout this posting, substitute "flute" with whatever you
think it sounds like :-)
In article <33625496...@news.aztec.co.za>,
jpg...@aztec.co.za (Johan Groenewald) writes:
[snip]
>The Boxer was 5 minutes 8 seconds. That's pretty close to the limits
>of a 45rpm 7" single.
>
>The following comes to mind:
>
>* The Lai, Lai, Lai coda at the end of the song is 1 minute 20 seconds
>(just hear the bass coming in at exactly 1 minute. Paul once mentioned
>in an interview that he had some disagreement with Art and Roy Halee
>on the "long ending" of the song, but being in a production trio he
>abided by the majority decision in favor of the long ending.
>
>* Art composed the flute solo and Paul wanted to please Art (funny the
>album liner didn't mention Art's composing ability)
>
He (Art, that is) didn't want to! Again, from an interview with Art
in SongTalk (ST) (http://www.itsystem.se/guitar/garfunkel.interview.html):
%%%%%
Art: ... Never took a writer's credit because in spirit it was really
a small two percent factor.
ST: Didn't you have any desire to have credit? George Harrison recently
said that he felt he should have received credit for lines he wrote in
Lennon and Mc Cartney songs.
Art: I'm surprised that he's complaining about it. ... you don't ask for
credit when it's happening because in truth, in spirit, Paul's the writer.
ST: Simon said you wrote the flute solo on "The Boxer"
AG: I wrote a lot of those kinds of things. If you're talking not about
the song but the arrangement; now I wrote more than two percent. I wrote
a lot of the parts that musicians played, solo and stuff.
%%%%%
>* The "long ending" and "Art flute solo" stretched the song to such an
>extent that an added verse would have exceeded the time limitations of
>a 45.
>
>Pity that the guys didn't include the verse on the Bridge Over
>Troubled Water LP.
... and in another article, Johan continued:
> The added verse and the solo are not incompatible and mutually
> exclusive. Both fit the song and both were featured on all live
> recordings.
Are you sure? As far as I remember, I've never heard a version
of "The Boxer" with both the flute solo and the "missing" verse
(though it's been a while since I listened to "The Concert in
Central Park" so I can't say for sure in that case). I have
always thought of the flute solo and the missing verse as
mutually exclusive and that Paul, when performing "The Boxer",
has chosen the one he felt most comfortable with at that time.
But I agree with you that (probably) the reason for not including
both the flute solo and the missing verse on the single version
is that it would have become too long.
Tomas
--
Tomas Lundberg | The most exciting phrase to hear
Dept. of Physics | in science, the one that heralds
Link\"oping University | new discoveries, is not `Heureka!'
Sweden | (I found it!) but `That's funny...'
Email: to...@ifm.liu.se |
WWW: www.ifm.liu.se/~tolun/ | Isaac Asimov
Edson Computers Place
Johan Groenewald wrote:
>
> R Lapworth <rlap...@zetnet.co.uk> wrote:
> >I was really confused when I read this thread, "flute solo"??
It's the second one.
Greg
Rudi Riet
by the way, the question about "bridge" is being added to the FAQ page on
"Song For The Asking." while the FAQ is still very embryonic, it will
eventually cover most of the tricky s&g, paul simon and art garfunkel
questions.
cheers!
Rudi Riet
Webmaster, "Song For The Asking"
http://www.connix.com/~rdrie/simon.html
Gerard Eastwood
Johan Groenewald wrote:
>
> >Now the years are rolling by me,
> >They are rocking evenly.
> >I am older than I once was,
> >and younger than I'll be,
> >but that's not unusual.
> >Nor is it strange,
> >After changes upon changes
> >We are more or less the same.
> >After changes we are more or less the same.
> >
> that "Now the years are rolling by me" sounds more approppriate for a
> persons in their 30s. It made a lot of sense to me when it was first
> officially featured on "Live Rhymin" and after the breakup.
>
> Johan Groenewald
The trouble is that he had written these lyrics prior to the release of
BOTW in 1970. My collection with this extra verse includes:
* Songs Of America (S & G Video of Nov 1969 TV Special)
* Live at Miami University (CD of concert Aug 1969, I Think)
* Live in Amstedam (CD of concert in 1970)
These are prior, or at same time as, BOTW album released in Feb 1970.
Since this time I think the extra verse is always included, such as:
* Live Rhymin 1974
* Concert in Central Park 1981
* Concert in Park 1991 (Born at Right Time Tour)
* MTV Unplugged 1992
* 1993 Paramount Concerts (not that I saw it live!)
* The 2 times I saw live - 18/2/1983 and 23 & 24 Oct 1991
I like the drama of the studio version, but equally like the extra verse.
Is that allowed?
Gerard Eastwood
New Zealand
Rudi Riet
In article <3366EA...@xtra.co.nz>, Gerard Eastwood
<east...@xtra.co.nz> wrote:
> The trouble is that he had written these lyrics prior to the release of
> BOTW in 1970. My collection with this extra verse includes:
>
> * Songs Of America (S & G Video of Nov 1969 TV Special)
> * Live at Miami University (CD of concert Aug 1969, I Think)
these two are the same thing - the "songs of america" special was filmed
at the miami university gig.
> Since this time I think the extra verse is always included, such as:
>
> * 1993 Paramount Concerts (not that I saw it live!)
they didn't sing the extra verse at the show i attended, nor did they sing
it on any of the roios i have of the 1993 reunion shows. michael brecker
played his ewi (electronic wind instrument) for the solo.
just fyi....
cheers!
rudi riet
webmaster, "Song For The Asking"
http://www.connix.com/~rdrie/simon.html
Edson Computers Place
Gerard Eastwood wrote:
>
> Johan Groenewald wrote:
> >
> > >Now the years are rolling by me,
> > >They are rocking evenly.
> > >I am older than I once was,
> > >and younger than I'll be,
> > >but that's not unusual.
> > >Nor is it strange,
> > >After changes upon changes
> > >We are more or less the same.
> > >After changes we are more or less the same.
> > >
> > Paul wrote "The Boxer" when he was about 28 and I have often thought
> > that "Now the years are rolling by me" sounds more approppriate for a
> > persons in their 30s. It made a lot of sense to me when it was first
> > officially featured on "Live Rhymin" and after the breakup.
> >
> > Johan Groenewald
>
> Gerard Eastwood
True -- but The Boxer was released as a single in 1969 nearly a year
before the -Bridge- album. So we still don't know whether the verse was
lopped from the studio version or simply written later.
Greg
Jan Hugo Prins
Hai jpg...@aztec.co.za,
j> I agree that this "flute" solo is confusing. That solo was payed on
j> pan pipes on "Live Rhymin", synth on "Concert in Central Park" and an
j> electronic instrument, which looks like some sort of electronic sax,
j> on the "Born at the Right Time Tour. The soloist at this occasion was
j> the same guy who played the sax solo on "Still Crazy" at Central Park
j> (Hey, I should know his name, but the album was stolen a few years ago
j> -- Brecker?). That "Duncan" like sound of the pan pipes by Los Incas
j> on the "Live Rhymin" version is still my favorite rendition of the
j> solo.
Brecker didn't play with Concert in Central Park (19-09-1981), at least not
according to my album.
Musicians:
All vocals by Paul Simon and Art Garfunkel
Drums: Steve Gadd and Grandy Tate
Guitars: Paul Simon, David Brown and Pete Carr
Bass: Anthony Jackson
Keyboards: Richard Tee
Synthesizer: Rob Mounsey
Trumpets: John Gatchell and John Eckert
Saxophones: Dave Tofani and Gerry Niewood
j> Now the question. What is a recordist? Is it someone who plays a
j> recorder, or is it someone who records a record. The album credits of
j> Bridge credits Ted Brosnam as the recordist. However, "featured
j> musicians" are specified as: Paul Simon, Fred Carter, Hal Blaine, Joe
j> Osborn, Larry Knetchel, Jimmy Haskell and Ernie Freeman.
I think the recordist is the one that tapes the music. At least the recordist
is in the Album Concert in Central Park mensioned between the technisians.
j> If a recordist is someone who plays a recorder (that keyboard reed
j> instrument made by Hohner), maybe the Boxer solo was done on a
j> recorder.
In the instruments used in Rhythm of the Saints they are talking about a AKAI
EWI SYNTHESIZER, played on by Michael Brecker. Besides that he also plays the
saxophones, what makes me believe that the Synthesizer must be some sort of
instrument very near to a saxophone. Also because when they mention this AKAI
EWI SYNTHESIZER they also mention a normal Synthesizer played on by Greg
Phillinganes.
I also do remember that the electrical instrument you are refering to was
played on by the same man that played the saxophone in the Rhythm of the Saints
tour.
Groetjes, // Hermes BBS: +31-13-5900232
Jan Hugo Prins // Fidonet: 2:285/266
MINAKOWSKIA2
in the born at the right time concert, it is indeed michael brecker doing
the "flute" solo. the instrument he uses is the akai ewi synthesizer. it
is a wind-driven synthesizer which he uses exstensively as i understand.
he performed his own song during the concert between "Proof" and "The
Coast" in which he uses the ewi more and demonstrates some of its
capabilities. unfortunately, this song was not included on the cd and i
don't think it was on the video either (although i could be mistaken). by
the way, if anyone knows the title of the song, i'd much appreciate
learning it. also, brecker uses the ewi in several songs on the "Rhythm
of the Saints" album. just contributing my little bit to this whole
discussion.
Johan Groenewald
Gerard Eastwood <east...@xtra.co.nz> wrote:
>The trouble is that he had written these lyrics prior to the release of
>BOTW in 1970. My collection with this extra verse includes:
> * Songs Of America (S & G Video of Nov 1969 TV Special)
> * Live at Miami University (CD of concert Aug 1969, I Think)
> * Live in Amstedam (CD of concert in 1970)
> these are prior, or at same time as, BOTW album released in Feb 1970.
>Since this time I think the extra verse is always included, such as:
> * Live Rhymin 1974
> * Concert in Central Park 1981
> * Concert in Park 1991 (Born at Right Time Tour)
> * MTV Unplugged 1992
> * 1993 Paramount Concerts (not that I saw it live!)
> * The 2 times I saw live - 18/2/1983 and 23 & 24 Oct 1991
Edson Computers Place <par...@telusplanet.net> wrote:
>
>True -- but The Boxer was released as a single in 1969 nearly a year
>before the -Bridge- album. So we still don't know whether the verse was
>lopped from the studio version or simply written later.
Things begin to make sense when we pinpoint the dates.
Paul took out copyright for the Boxer in 1968. So the song was already
written either with or without the extra verse in 1968.
When did Paul, Art and Roy Halee go in the studio for the Boxer and
when was the single released? When was Art in Mexico for the filming
of Catch 22?
Johan Groenewald
Purhus Ungdomsklubber
th...@mdx.ac.uk <t...@mdx.uk> skrev i artiklen
<5kctrb$jl9$1...@seva.mdx.ac.uk>...
>"Now the years are rolling by me,
>They are rocking evenly,
>I am older than I once was
>And younger than I'll be,
>That's not unusual.
>No, it isn't strange,
>After changes upon changes
>We are more or less the same,
>After changes we are more or less the same."
>: are they recorded on any albums? I would appreciate any help anyone can
>: give me.
Hello
The extra lyrics appear for the first time on "Live Rhymin'" by Paul Simon
but also on "The Concert in Central Park" by Simon & Garfunkel.
Jim, DK
Ania Oleksik
On 8 May 1997 20:12:25 GMT, "Purhus Ungdomsklubber"
<puk...@post8.tele.dk> wrote:
>The extra lyrics appear for the first time on "Live Rhymin'" by Paul Simon
>but also on "The Concert in Central Park" by Simon & Garfunkel.
No. They appear for the first time on bootlegged albums
recorded in 1968 or 1969, that is BEFORE the release
of 'Bridge over Troubled Water' (1970). If you read the other
contributions in this thread, you'll see that Paul
wrote these 'extra' lyrics as an original part of 'The
boxer', but left them out on the album for the sake
of the instrumental flute solo written by Art. On most
recordings of 'The boxer', either bootlegged or not,
BEFORE and AFTER the 'Bridge album', the 'extra'
lyrics are sung. So it is better to speak of the 'missing'
lyrics than of the 'extra' lyrics'.
Major kochinha
> >
> >In article <335f0e4...@news0.xs4all.nl>, aole...@xs4all.nl
> >(Ania Oleksik) writes:
> >>On Wed, 23 Apr 1997 14:51:47 -0500, Rue Barb <br...@isd.net>
> >>wrote:
> >>>I can't tell you why he added the words or what the story
> >>>behind it is. Perhaps someone else can.
> >>> RB
> >>
> >>It is interesting to note that Paul did not ADD these lyrics,
> >>but rather LEFT them OUT on the BOTW album. I know
> >>this part. So it was an original part of the song.
> >>
> >>Because Paul sang it on every recording released after
> >>BOTW, it is tempting to think that leaving it out on
> >>the BOTW album was a (technical) mistake during
> >>the production.
> >
> >As I recall it, Art wrote the flute solo (see the interview with
> >Art at http://www.itsystem.se/guitar/garfunkel.interview.html
> >album.
> >
> >"Concert in the Park" album?
> of a 45rpm 7" single.
> The following comes to mind:
> * The Lai, Lai, Lai coda at the end of the song is 1 minute 20 seconds
> (just hear the bass coming in at exactly 1 minute. Paul once mentioned
> in an interview that he had some disagreement with Art and Roy Halee
> on the "long ending" of the song, but being in a production trio he
> abided by the majority decision in favor of the long ending.
> * Art composed the flute solo and Paul wanted to please Art (funny the
> album liner didn't mention Art's composing ability)
> extent that an added verse would have exceeded the time limitations of
> a 45.
> Pity that the guys didn't include the verse on the Bridge Over
> Troubled Water LP.
> Johan Groenewald
Hey man, i think you just awnsered my question... in 1997. thanks, if you still alive yet
