Worst Paul Simon lyrics
Rebecca Kavanagh
I have been interested to read people's favorite Paul Simon lyrics - if
I even attempted to draw up a list I think I would be writing all night.
As to his worst lyrics to me that's easy - In Something So Right he
sings "They've got a wall in China . It's a thousand miles long. To
keep out the foreigners they made it strong." I really like the song
but this metaphor just doesn't work for me - it really almost ruins the
song in fact. Another candidate would be the entire "Cars are Cars".
Rebecca
mmes...@mindspring.com
Rebecca Kavanagh wrote:
>
> I have been interested to read people's favorite Paul Simon lyrics - if
> I even attempted to draw up a list I think I would be writing all night.
Eventually we'll have the whole thing, every word he's ever written has
got to be *someone's* favorite.
> As to his worst lyrics to me that's easy - In Something So Right he
I'll bet there's a bit of overlap with the previous list here. Did you
see the thread about annoying Capeman lines? Apparently no one like the
lyrics to "Time is an Ocean" much. Probably Walcott wrote them (<g>, for
the humor impaired...) My own least favorite has to be "I'll take the
evil in me, and turn it into good! Though all your institutions, never
thought I could..." Double blech. Unsubtle and unconvincing. (IMHO, for
the easily offended).
> sings "They've got a wall in China . It's a thousand miles long. To
> keep out the foreigners they made it strong." I really like the song
I've got a wall around me, that ya can't even see... What's wrong with
that? Creative, methinks. Endearing.
> but this metaphor just doesn't work for me - it really almost ruins the
> song in fact. Another candidate would be the entire "Cars are Cars".
Early work doesn't count.
-Mary (who never liked really liked Cecilia, especially not the chorus.)
Beady7
Cars are Cars?? It was my favotite song when I was 3!!
ZebLevson
> Another candidate would be the entire "Cars are Cars".
>
>Early work doesn't count.
>
>-Mary (who never liked really liked Cecilia, especially not the chorus.)
>
>
>
>
>
"Cars are Cars" does not qualify as early PS work; it was the weakest song on
Hearts and Bones. But even this bit of fluff has these redeeming lines:
"I once had a car that was more like a home,
I lived in it, loved in it, polished its chrome.
If some of my homes had been more like my car,
I probably wouldn't have travelled this far."
The rest of the song is pretty poor, however...
-- Martin
LEG
> Rebecca Kavanagh wrote:
>
>> As to his worst lyrics to me that's easy - In Something So Right he
>> To
>> keep out the foreigners they made it strong." I really like the
>> song
>> the
>> Cars".
>> Rebecca
>
>
>
>
Have you ever really considered the words to that song? There are more
metaphors in the lines of CAC than most songwriters can work into
fifteen or twenty songs.
Cars are universal, built on a production line - used up and discarded
-- the same all over the world...but what about people - they are
"strangers - they change with the curve ...they shut down their
borders...stand on their differences..."
And what about the line, "if some of my homes had been more like my car
I probably wouldn't have traveled this far".
Also, check out the production -- "drive 'em on the left, drive 'em on
the right". I used to check my speaker wires by that line!
Anyway, the point is. Take another look at that song and see if you can
find a single line that isn't related to the automobile. It is pretty
hard to do....one can learn a great deal about the way PS works by
studying that one song.
Ulrich Windl
> I have been interested to read people's favorite Paul Simon lyrics - if
> I even attempted to draw up a list I think I would be writing all night.
>
> As to his worst lyrics to me that's easy - In Something So Right he
> sings "They've got a wall in China . It's a thousand miles long. To
> keep out the foreigners they made it strong." I really like the song
You miss the continuation (hopefully mostly right): "And I've got a
wall around me that you can't even see". That is the contrast. The
invisible wall semms much stronger than the real one. (MHO) For me
that's not too bad.
> but this metaphor just doesn't work for me - it really almost ruins the
> song in fact. Another candidate would be the entire "Cars are Cars".
> Rebecca
Ulrich
LEG
Gerard Eastwood wrote:
> As for Something So Right that's one of the songs that first drew me
> to
> Paul's music way back in 1973, and I especially liked the Wall in
> China
> metaphor. Well I guess that One Mans Ceiling is Another Man's Floor!
>
That is a great song. Paul must think so as well because it is one of
the few that he includes in live sets many times when he is required to
"dust off" some of the older tunes. Most of the others that he favors
the audience with are of the "commercial hits" genre (TSOS, BOTW). I
think that the guitar part on that one is incredible - *and* if you're
going to use a wall metaphor then why not "go all the way" and use the
one that you can see from outer space!
(What about that...this group is teaching me a lot. A week ago I would
have called it SOS instead of TSOS ;=)
LEG
mmes...@mindspring.com
ZebLevson wrote:
>
> > Another candidate would be the entire "Cars are Cars".
> >
> >
> >-Mary (who never liked really liked Cecilia, especially not the chorus.)
> "Cars are Cars" does not qualify as early PS work; it was the weakest song on
> Hearts and Bones. But even this bit of fluff has these redeeming lines:
Is it? I'd thought it was on BOTW (which *I* consider early work,
anyway). Better go listen to them again...
> "I once had a car that was more like a home,
> I lived in it, loved in it, polished its chrome.
> If some of my homes had been more like my car,
> I probably wouldn't have travelled this far."
> The rest of the song is pretty poor, however...
The reply below this on my list is the analysis of how deep the metaphor
is, production lines and uniformity etc. Which proves two things:
everything in the canon is beloved by someone, and PS fans have direly
over worked meaning extracting faculties.
-Mary
Timothy E. Barker
I've been glad to see that "Cars Are Cars" is listed so often in the
category of worst lyrics. To me, this is Paul Simon's only HORRIBLE
song, drum machine and all.
I read recently a very interesting interview with Roy Halee in which he
described this song as "an embarrassment," stating it should never have
been recorded.
Tim
mmes...@mindspring.com
Michael Aidulis wrote:
>
> mmes...@mindspring.com wrote in article <3496FB...@mindspring.com>...
>
> > The reply below this on my list is the analysis of how deep the metaphor
> > is, production lines and uniformity etc. Which proves two things:
> > everything in the canon is beloved by someone, and PS fans have direly
> > over worked meaning extracting faculties.
> listening.
Rather proves my point, doesn't it?
How many of them are in Cars are Cars? How many did Simon intend?
Not strictly relevent, actually, since he's said of his latest work that
half the fun is finding meanings he didn't intend. Nevertheless. Direly
overworked.
-Mary
mmes...@mindspring.com
overworked. (Almost as bad as high school English teachers. One of whom,
incidentally, introduced me to Simon by analyzing The Boy in the Bubble
and Sounds of Silence during a poetry unit. I disagreed entirely with
her conclusions. And went out to buy Graceland.)
-Mary
Gerard Eastwood
LEG wrote:
> >> Another candidate would be the entire "Cars are Cars".
>
> metaphors in the lines of CAC than most songwriters can work into
> fifteen or twenty songs.
>
> Cars are universal, built on a production line - used up and discarded
> -- the same all over the world...but what about people - they are
> "strangers - they change with the curve ...they shut down their
> borders...stand on their differences..."
>
> And what about the line, "if some of my homes had been more like my car
> I probably wouldn't have traveled this far".
>
> Also, check out the production -- "drive 'em on the left, drive 'em on
> the right". I used to check my speaker wires by that line!
>
> Anyway, the point is. Take another look at that song and see if you can
> find a single line that isn't related to the automobile. It is pretty
> hard to do....one can learn a great deal about the way PS works by
> studying that one song.
>
Thanks for your reply. I can't understand why Cars Are Cars gets kicked
around so much (even by Paul). I personally find it interesting.
Sometimes the analysis in this group borders on being obsessive. Does a
song require an earthshattering message to have merit?
Sometimes the only answer is you either like the overall feel of a song
or you don't.
As for Something So Right that's one of the songs that first drew me to
Paul's music way back in 1973, and I especially liked the Wall in China
metaphor. Well I guess that One Mans Ceiling is Another Man's Floor!
Now lets forget about finding the worst Paul Simon lyrics - it seems
such a neagtive thing to do. I'm far more intersted to read about what
songs/lyrics are peoples favourites (and why).
Gerard Eastwood
New Zealand
Michael Aidulis
Ulrich Windl <wiu09524@rrzc4> wrote in article
<WIU09524.97Dec16143548@rrzc4>...
> > Rebecca
>
> Ulrich
Well here we see two opposite opinions on the same lyric. In one biography
of Simon I read, the author also made the point that Something So Right was
a very good song which was almost ruined by the reference to the Great Wall
Of China. In a documentary I have seen, this line was given as a good
example of Simon's illustrative style. So it seems that we are at a
stalemate. Can I give my own opinion anyway? I think that comparing a
person's inner defenses to a wall does not ask for a great leap of
imagination and works as a metaphor in the song. However, it does seem to
interrupt the "prettiness" of the song, and to some it could seem like an
eyesore building on an otherwise picturesque skyline. But the song is
written in an unromantic style - "I can't get used to something so right"
is direct and stylistically neutral. But if the song was not intended to be
pretty, why did he include lush strings in the arrangement? I think this is
what is confusing. I think that if he uses strings, he has to leave out the
line about the wall. What do you think?
Michael Aidulis
Michael Aidulis
> The reply below this on my list is the analysis of how deep the metaphor
> is, production lines and uniformity etc. Which proves two things:
> everything in the canon is beloved by someone, and PS fans have direly
> over worked meaning extracting faculties.
>
> -Mary
Speak for yourself, dear. I'm still finding meanings after 15 years of
listening.
Michael Aidulis
SherTeyWms
>> Hearts and Bones. But even this bit of fluff has these redeeming lines:
>
>Is it? I'd thought it was on BOTW (
I bet you're thinking of "Baby Driver"
Moooky
cars are cars is kinda bad but i like the ...I once had a car that was more
like a hoome....bridges
Michel Couzijn
On 17 Dec 1997 00:23:21 GMT, "Michael Aidulis"
<Michael...@btinternet.com> wrote:
>If the song was not intended to be pretty, why did he include lush strings
>in the arrangement?I think this is what is confusing. I think that if he uses
>strings, he has to leave out the line about the wall. What do you think?
The answer is, as often, in Paul's lyrics:
"No one gives their dreams away too lightly
They hold them tightly
Warm against cold..."
Michel Couzijn
Amsterdam, The Netherlands
Michel Couzijn
On Tue, 16 Dec 1997 22:16:22 -0600, mmes...@mindspring.com wrote:
>I disagreed entirely with her conclusions. And went out to buy Graceland.
Which means: lesson succeeded.
I also teach poetry at the secondary level. Although I always make
room for interpretations of the students, and believe their ideas
and readings should come first, it doesn't mean that I should hold
back my own interpretation all the time.
What they learn is that they can DEVELOP their own interpretation,
sometimes by confronting it with interpretations of others - maybe
mine, maybe not. And that the teacher's ideas are not sanctimonious; I
even stimulate them to disagree and find counterarguments.
And if they end up disagreeing - but interested in the poetry itself
and in the interpretative game we played - that's just really fine
with me.
Reading poetry (or PS songs, for that matter) is often like solving a
puzzle. But the puzzle may have different solutions for people who are
different.
Michael Aidulis
Michel Couzijn <cou...@ilo.uva.nl> wrote in article
<349731f6...@news0.xs4all.nl>...
> Amsterdam, The Netherlands
Are you saying that Simon's desire to make something beautiful overstepped
its mark, and caused him to use an inappropriate arrangement? I'm sure that
this can happen in some instances, but I think his decision was a
deliberate one here, and that's why I want to understand it. On the
previous album he used a line, "I've been living on Gatorade". Someone said
to him, "I hate that line about Gatorade", and Simon replied, "I know.
That's why I used it." In other words he does think about
appropriateness...the effect a word has on the flavour of the song. I would
like to know his justification for "wall in China."
Michael
Michael Aidulis
mmes...@mindspring.com wrote in article <349751...@mindspring.com>...
> Michael Aidulis wrote:
> >
> > mmes...@mindspring.com wrote in article
<3496FB...@mindspring.com>...
> >
> > > The reply below this on my list is the analysis of how deep the
metaphor
> > > is, production lines and uniformity etc. Which proves two things:
> > > everything in the canon is beloved by someone, and PS fans have
direly
> > > over worked meaning extracting faculties.
> > Speak for yourself, dear. I'm still finding meanings after 15 years of
> > listening.
>
> Rather proves my point, doesn't it?
Sure, if you're right, which you're not. I say it proves that I am still
alive.
> How many of them are in Cars are Cars? How many did Simon intend?
There are 8 meanings in Cars are Cars, and 14 inferences, but only 67.4%
were deliberatly placed there by the author. It's a very exact science.
> Not strictly relevent, actually,
Isn't that my line?
> since he's said of his latest work that
> half the fun is finding meanings he didn't intend.
It's fun, yes, but it can also be thought provoking, inspirational and
fulfilling to find new meanings in things, especially meanings no one else
has seen. That's what gives a person their uniqueness. Imagination is the
final frontier, because it involves going where no one else has been. As
Michel said, part of the joy of this discovery is when it rubs off on
others and causes them to become interested in discovery.
> Nevertheless. Direly overworked.
Cynic! Why destroy meaning, when there is precious little of it about?
Michael
mmes...@mindspring.com
Michael Aidulis wrote:
>
> mmes...@mindspring.com wrote in article <349751...@mindspring.com>...
> > Michael Aidulis wrote:
> > > mmes...@mindspring.com wrote in article
> <3496FB...@mindspring.com>...
> > > > is, production lines and uniformity etc. Which proves two things:
> > > > everything in the canon is beloved by someone, and PS fans have
> > > > direly
> > > > over worked meaning extracting faculties.
> > > Speak for yourself, dear. I'm still finding meanings after 15 years of
> > > listening.
> > Rather proves my point, doesn't it?
> Sure, if you're right, which you're not. I say it proves that I am still
> alive.
Didn't mean to imply that you weren't. In fact, I assumed as much from
the fact that you were still posting... Er.
Anyway, I never said I wasn't still finding them. I do, after all,
include myself in the category of "fans". Just means that I'm as bad as
the rest of you, that's all.
> > How many of them are in Cars are Cars? How many did Simon intend?
> There are 8 meanings in Cars are Cars, and 14 inferences, but only 67.4%
> were deliberatly placed there by the author. It's a very exact science.
I only calculated 44.23%. With an error of at most +/- 5.01%.
> > Not strictly relevent, actually,
> Isn't that my line?
You can still say it if you like. Just be warned that I'll agree.
> > since he's said of his latest work that
> > half the fun is finding meanings he didn't intend.
> It's fun, yes, but it can also be thought provoking, inspirational and
> fulfilling to find new meanings in things, especially meanings no one else
All of the above verbs are synonyms for fun, to PS fans, no?
> has seen. That's what gives a person their uniqueness. Imagination is the
> final frontier, because it involves going where no one else has been. As
> Michel said, part of the joy of this discovery is when it rubs off on
> others and causes them to become interested in discovery.
I don't think I'm ready for profundity just now. Profanity, perhaps,
profundity, no. Give me a chance to drink some tea and listen to some
PS, then I might be mellow enough to ponder paragraphs like the above.
> > Nevertheless. Direly overworked.
> Cynic! Why destroy meaning, when there is precious little of it about?
That's a lovely line. But it also supports my point. Preciousl little
meaning about, and we seem to find an awful lot of it in the oddest
places, with Simon listeners.
-Mary (who wonders if many of Simon's songs aren't about life having
more meaning than you think)
diane197
In article <01bd0b12$06c78da0$c83e63c3@default>, "Michael Aidulis"
<Michael...@btinternet.com> wrote:
> Michel Couzijn <cou...@ilo.uva.nl> wrote
> > <Michael...@btinternet.com> wrote:
> >
> > >If the song was not intended to be pretty, why did he include lush
> strings
> > >in the arrangement?I think this is what is confusing. I think that if he
> uses
> > >strings, he has to leave out the line about the wall. What do you think?
> >
> > The answer is, as often, in Paul's lyrics:
> >
> > "No one gives their dreams away too lightly
> > They hold them tightly
> > Warm against cold..."
> >
> its mark, and caused him to use an inappropriate arrangement? I'm sure that
> this can happen in some instances, but I think his decision was a
> deliberate one here, and that's why I want to understand it. On the
> previous album he used a line, "I've been living on Gatorade". Someone said
> to him, "I hate that line about Gatorade", and Simon replied, "I know.
> That's why I used it." In other words he does think about
> appropriateness...the effect a word has on the flavour of the song. I would
> like to know his justification for "wall in China."
>
Wall of China proves Simon's point.
He here is in the middle of a moving love song, tossing in a casual
reference to the Wall of China. It sure *would* take a little time to get
through the "invisible walls" of a guy like that, wouldn't it. ;>
Alice Dryden
>Take another look at that song and see if you can
>find a single line that isn't related to the automobile.
I love the ghastly maths puns in 'When Numbers Get Serious' on the same
album.
'I will love you innumerably, you can count on my word'. Groan!
Alice Dryden (Wolf+)
Michael Aidulis
mmes...@mindspring.com wrote in article <34983E...@mindspring.com>...
>
> Anyway, I never said I wasn't still finding them. I do, after all,
> include myself in the category of "fans". Just means that I'm as bad as
> the rest of you, that's all.
Why is it bad?
> > > since he's said of his latest work that
> > > half the fun is finding meanings he didn't intend.
> > It's fun, yes, but it can also be thought provoking, inspirational and
> > fulfilling to find new meanings in things, especially meanings no one
else
>
> All of the above verbs are synonyms for fun, to PS fans, no?
Your point is grudgingly accepted ;-) If you stick around, you will also
see that some Paul Simon fans think "fun" is a huge tag file.
> > has seen. That's what gives a person their uniqueness. Imagination is
the
> > final frontier, because it involves going where no one else has been.
As
> > Michel said, part of the joy of this discovery is when it rubs off on
> > others and causes them to become interested in discovery.
>
> I don't think I'm ready for profundity just now. Profanity, perhaps,
> profundity, no. Give me a chance to drink some tea and listen to some
> PS, then I might be mellow enough to ponder paragraphs like the above.
Why not drink it here, as the sun shines through the curtain lace? We'll
sit and drink our coffee, like shells upon the shore; you can hear the
ocean roar in the dangling conversation and the superficial sighs; the
borders of our lives. (Thank you, Simon.) We won't be learning a thing, but
we'll sure be mellow and having fun. Profundity is obviously too much of a
strain for you.
> > > Nevertheless. Direly overworked.
> > Cynic! Why destroy meaning, when there is precious little of it about?
>
> That's a lovely line. But it also supports my point. Preciousl little
> meaning about, and we seem to find an awful lot of it in the oddest
> places, with Simon listeners.
Sorry, that wasn't profound enough for me, and I fell asleep.
Michael Aidulis ("My words like silent raindrops fell...")
mmes...@mindspring.com
> > Anyway, I never said I wasn't still finding them. I do, after all,
> > include myself in the category of "fans". Just means that I'm as bad as
> > the rest of you, that's all.
> Why is it bad?
Look, how seriously are you taking this? I'm having trouble defending my
witty self-deprecation here. Well, almost witty. I merely shake my head
in awe over the number of unintended interpretations we're able to find.
As Simon himself has done, in an interview or two. If not bad, it's
certainly not normal, all right?
> > > > since he's said of his latest work that
> > > > half the fun is finding meanings he didn't intend.
> > > It's fun, yes, but it can also be thought provoking, inspirational and
> > > fulfilling to find new meanings in things, especially meanings no one
> else
> > All of the above verbs are synonyms for fun, to PS fans, no?
> Your point is grudgingly accepted ;-) If you stick around, you will also
> see that some Paul Simon fans think "fun" is a huge tag file.
If you say so.
<snip>
> > I don't think I'm ready for profundity just now. Profanity, perhaps,
> > profundity, no. Give me a chance to drink some tea and listen to some
> > PS, then I might be mellow enough to ponder paragraphs like the above.
> Why not drink it here, as the sun shines through the curtain lace? We'll
> sit and drink our coffee, like shells upon the shore; you can hear the
Nonono, *tea*. I don't like coffee.
> ocean roar in the dangling conversation and the superficial sighs; the
> borders of our lives. (Thank you, Simon.) We won't be learning a thing, but
Who said that was pretentious crap? I've just decided I like it. Very
evocative. Not swinging, perhaps, but evocative. Mark our place with
bookmarkers that measure what we've lost. Yes. Good. Dickensen.
> we'll sure be mellow and having fun. Profundity is obviously too much of a
> strain for you.
Just now, absolutely. I'm a student, you know. The end of the semester
taxes my pondering abilities to their limits. I just had an hour and a
half to write a paper transcendentalism as espoused by American authors.
I've grown disgusted with Literary People and over-analysis. I'm
probably just venting. But I'm enjoying it.
> > > > Nevertheless. Direly overworked.
> > > Cynic! Why destroy meaning, when there is precious little of it about?
> > That's a lovely line. But it also supports my point. Precious little
> > meaning about, and we seem to find an awful lot of it in the oddest
> > places, with Simon listeners.
> Sorry, that wasn't profound enough for me, and I fell asleep.
I sympathise, I really do.
-Mary
Ulrich Windl
In article <01bd0a4f$06d5a200$543863c3@default> "Michael Aidulis" <Michael...@btinternet.com> writes:
> Well here we see two opposite opinions on the same lyric. In one biography
> of Simon I read, the author also made the point that Something So Right was
> a very good song which was almost ruined by the reference to the Great Wall
> Of China. In a documentary I have seen, this line was given as a good
> example of Simon's illustrative style. So it seems that we are at a
> stalemate. Can I give my own opinion anyway? I think that comparing a
> person's inner defenses to a wall does not ask for a great leap of
> imagination and works as a metaphor in the song. However, it does seem to
Did anybody notice the similarities to "I'm a rock"? (I'm a fortress
deep and mighty that none may penetrate (I think)) Ther he also tries
to be cold, but in fact he is not.
> interrupt the "prettiness" of the song, and to some it could seem like an
> eyesore building on an otherwise picturesque skyline. But the song is
> written in an unromantic style - "I can't get used to something so right"
> is direct and stylistically neutral. But if the song was not intended to be
> pretty, why did he include lush strings in the arrangement? I think this is
> what is confusing. I think that if he uses strings, he has to leave out the
> line about the wall. What do you think?
Doesn't "I'm a rock" sound happy?
>
> Michael Aidulis
>
Ulrich
Julie
In article <B0BF0CC39...@ppp128.enterprise.net>, Alice Dryden
<age...@dryden.co.uk> writes
beautifully it just wrenches my heart. I always stop whatever I am doing
just to listen to those five words....okay, then I go back to what I am
doing ;-)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Julie Yeaman
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
MHohulin
>Whoah there..... IMHO he sings 'I will love you innumerably' so
>beautifully it just wrenches my heart.
Yes, he does sing it beautifully but the pun is still worth a *groan* or
two........
alt.newsgroupspaul-simon