And once again, journalists amaze me.
SettinS0n
shows..Interestingly, most journalists refer to SOTSOG as a dud of an album.
While I'll admit that the songs played by themselves leave a bit to be desired,
as an album its fuckin top. Anyhow...here's the review.
Johnny Marr Joins Oasis Onstage For 10th Anniversary Show In Manchester
Oct 11, 2001, 11:15 am PT
As the tour T-shirts proudly claim, this month Oasis is celebrating "10 years
of noise and confusion," although in recent years the confusion has become more
noticeable than the noise.
Oasis came from a poor working class background and tried to take on the whole
world; they became incredibly famous, incredibly quick, and it all went
horribly wrong in a blur of showbiz nights out at London's Met bar.
And yet, despite two horribly flat albums -- Be Here Now and Standing On the
Shoulder of Giants, both subsequently disowned -- Oasis have never quite lost
its common touch. Thus, a low-key gig on Wednesday (Oct. 10) at the Manchester
Apollo (it's third of the 10th anniversary shows), just a mile away from the
streets where the band grew up provided ample opportunity to rediscover the
sparkle and the magic.
Pre-gig, talk was of a set composed entirely of new songs and obscurities, but
the set contained few surprises. Oasis has never got away without playing "Live
Forever" or "Rock n Roll Star" and isn't going to start now. However, in recent
years the band has coasted on the safety net of scale provided by huge stadium
concerts. Here, in the sort of venue played by "regular" bands, the chasm of
class between most bands and Oasis was ruthlessly underlined. As anthem after
anthem thundered out -- almost all from its first two albums, Definitely Maybe
and (What's the Story) Morning Glory? -- it was easy to understand Oasis'
jukebox ubiquity.
And yet, no band should survive solely on its past. Two untitled new songs gave
tantalizing glimpses of its next, reported "back to basics" album. One was
classic, instantly sing-able Oasis (with an obvious debt to Slade). The other,
a bit too traditional rock, was perhaps less convincing.
At least the band's lost its capacity for musical excess. Where once were
horns, strings, and everything but the kitchen sink, "Whatever" was delivered
acoustically by Noel Gallagher and sounded better for it. Many years ago, the
elder Gallagher was given a guitar by the Smiths' Johnny Marr. Here, he
acknowledged the debt by asking Marr to guest on "Champagne Supernova" and a
storming Beatles' "I Am the Walrus." Meanwhile, Liam Gallagher was surprisingly
muted: barely addressing the audience, but instead concentrating on those
brilliantly belligerent, nasal vocals.
While Oasis attempts to regain the Vesuvius-like raw power of its youth, some
of the songs from that period have gained a curious wistfulness. In particular,
"Fade Away" ("while we're living, the dreams we had as children fade away...")
sounded curiously prophetic. Perhaps the Gallaghers always understood that once
you've conquered the world, all that remains is to do it once again.
With this in mind, Noel led the band into one unexpected final charge. With the
house lights up and half the audience at the exits, Gallagher cried "Back in
yer fuckin' seats!" as the band delivered a pulverizing "Roll with It." It
might not always be a comfortable ride, but once again, the Oasis rollercoaster
is on the up.
-- Dave Simpson
Molly M
> While Oasis attempts to regain the Vesuvius-like raw power of its youth
Aww what a great image, but they should have picked the Etna volcano,
the vesuvius has been inactive too long, lol...
> "Fade Away" ("while we're living, the dreams we had as children fade
> away...") sounded curiously prophetic. Perhaps the Gallaghers always
understood that
> once you've conquered the world, all that remains is to do it once again.
Wow, great review indeed, thanks for posting that - where's it from?
Cancer
It's a brilliant album and 10 times better than most of the crap you hear on
the radio. The trouble is, groups are always expected to top their last
album. Regardless of how good the follow-up is, if it doesn't top the last
one the media immediately criticises it. The thing is, if that same album
had been released by a new group, the media would give it rave reviews.
Unfortunately, the media will always use Morning Glory as the passmark for
Oasis albums.
"SettinS0n" <sett...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20011024213555...@mb-fo.aol.com...
MeMeMe
> had been released by a new group, the media would give it rave reviews.
> Unfortunately, the media will always use Morning Glory as the passmark for
> Oasis albums.
Absolutely fucking spot on. They don't review the new albums in their own
right. They always say the same fucking thing, "This album isn't as good as
the first two, so it's crap!"
I believe Q Magazine reviewed WTS(MG) in much the same way. They stated as
fact it was rubbish because it wasn't as good as the first. And then.....
and then it outsold DM 2-1 and pushed them through in America and Q in their
immeasurable hypocrisy decided it was album of the decade. If SOTSOG had
somehow done the same, they have changed their minds about that too.
I've also noticed that critics often follow Noel's lead, as with WTS(MG) for
example. Noel, foolishly, has started criticizing (for no good reason in my
opinion), and the critics are now doing it too. Fucking pathetic!
David Yates
reviews that sell albums, the circulation of the magazines doesnt even
scrape 6 figures... its not the magazines (who gave it good reviews
remember) that stuffed BHN.. it was just normal people who bought it early
on and when asked by friends, colleagues what it was like said 'shit', that
killed it.
if you'd switched your arguement to sotsog, i'd agree with you.. .i do think
that was slammed for not sounding like the other albums, but get it in yer
head : BHN IS SHIT! its not just my opinion - its the view of the great
british public - when BHN came out around 1 million were sold in the first
week or so... .only 1 in 10 of the folk who were desperate to hear oasis in
97 came out to pick up sotsog, which sold 100,000 in its first week.
Molly M
> in the end though, for mega sellers like morning glory and even BHN, its not
> reviews that sell albums
You're right, it's not reviews *alone*, but the overall media circus
has a LOT to do with selling albums especially in those figures. It
surely isn't just word of mouth or talent alone when you reach millions
all over the world. You just need the channels to get the music through
I mean, BHN was a lot more hyped and pushed everywhere in the
press/mtv/radio/regular tv than SOTSOG, worldwide, not just britain,
and it went from passing mentions to full reviews to constant airplay
of massive proportion. There was huge anticipation. That's also why
people had their expectations raised too high in 97, compared to three
years later when Oasis were just not as hot an item to push. It was
this same pressure of expecting a follow up to two great albums that
also got Noel putting out an album that was only half-baked, probably.
One of the reasons anyway.
MeMeMe
think
> that was slammed for not sounding like the other albums, but get it in yer
> head : BHN IS SHIT! its not just my opinion - its the view of the great
> british public - when BHN came out around 1 million were sold in the first
> week or so... .only 1 in 10 of the folk who were desperate to hear oasis
in
> 97 came out to pick up sotsog, which sold 100,000 in its first week.
If Dotmusics charts were right (they don't record sales anymore), SOTOG had
sold 300,000 by the of it's first week, and 600,000 by the end of the
second. In the third week, sales just stopped. Curiously, that was the week
of the Brit Awards when Blobbie made his challenge and made Liam look a bit
of a twat in everyone but a devoted Oasis fan's eyes! Coincidence? You
decide!
Molly M
> Curiously, that was the week
> of the Brit Awards when Blobbie made his challenge and made Liam look a bit
> of a twat in everyone but a devoted Oasis fan's eyes! Coincidence? You
> decide!
"Beyond Belief: Fact or fiction"? ;)
David Yates
> I mean, BHN was a lot more hyped and pushed everywhere in the
> press/mtv/radio/regular tv than SOTSOG,
that, in my own rubbish, hazy way is sort of what I am getting at, of course
be here now was pushed hugely cos the anticipation was there from morning
glory, it wasnt there for sotsog cos BHN was such a let down.... thats
something no reviews or marketing can undo, its not an issue for silly cunts
like me who know that good bands can make bad records, and buy loads of
different records all the while, but when something sells billions, its
picked up by grannies and people who accidently strolled into a record shop
and that isnt it? coors fans basically.
Molly M
>
>> I mean, BHN was a lot more hyped and pushed everywhere in the
>> press/mtv/radio/regular tv than SOTSOG,
>
> that, in my own rubbish, hazy way is sort of what I am getting at
Exactly, I was not contradicting, I knew you were aiming at that too!
it's just, you know, my usual anti-media rants. *yawn*
Mr.Psychosis
David Yates wrote...
>its not the magazines (who gave it good reviews
>remember) that stuffed BHN.. it was just normal people who bought it early
>on and when asked by friends, colleagues what it was like said 'shit', that
>killed it.
I don't buy that theory. Most people who bought DM said it was the bollocks,
but it sold bugger-all compared to MG. Conversly, a lot of people said MG
was shit compared to DM, yet the masses still went out and bought it in
droves. The word-of-mouth theory is bogus, imo.
The real reason BHN sold less than MG is simple: at least half the people
who bought MG weren't really Oasis fans; they just bought it cos it was
trendy to like Oasis at the time. And a pretty hefty chunk of those fickle
fuckers had no desire to buy another Oasis album in 1997, however good or
bad it was. MG was a zeitgeist album, a la "Urban Hymns". Oasis have got
their hardcore fanbase now... the rest ain't worth worrying about. Good
fucking riddance to bad rubbish, I say. David Gray fans don't deserve Oasis.
>if you'd switched your arguement to sotsog, i'd agree with you.. .i do
>think that was slammed for not sounding like the other albums, but get it
>in yer head : BHN IS SHIT!
Get it in yer head: just cos you, Noel and Q magazine say it's shit, don't
mean it is. I have my own ears, thanks. "Magic Pie" is the only truly awful
song on BHN; replace that with "Stay Young" and BHN is a cracking
cocaine-sex-rock'n'roll-party album.
But I know you disagree, so no neeeeed!!!
>its not just my opinion - its the view of the great
>british public - when BHN came out around 1 million were sold in the first
>week or so... .only 1 in 10 of the folk who were desperate to hear oasis in
>97 came out to pick up sotsog, which sold 100,000 in its first week.
That's just the law of diminishing returns. "XTRMNTR" was far better than
"...Give Out", but it sold considerably less. I've no doubt "We Love Life"
by Pulp will sell less than "This Is Hardcore", yet it's far better, imo.
Besides, since when has the Great British public had any taste? If it did,
"Fun House" and "Forever Changes" would have sold shitloads. They haven't.
I'm not saying BHN or SOTSOG is in that class, but to base anything on sales
is completely bogus, imo.
Molly M
> "XTRMNTR" was far better than
> "...Give Out", but it sold considerably less.
I can't see the sales of that increasing either.... I can't see Primal
Scream getting anywhere at all right now! we'll be forced to listen to
them play in secret bunkers, like terrorists plotting the next attack,
or they'll be forced to change their party line to survive and duh,
sell... I mean for fucks sake, despise the masses all you like Mr
Psychosis, you got good reasons and real good role models for that too
and I'm not taking the piss here, but please, can't we have something
in between? some good music that can actually get spread a bit more
than by snob connoisseurs priding themselves on the latest discovery?
cos that mentality makes me as sick as the media plugging the next big
thing every two seconds. Why good riddance of "fickle" fans? is that
what Oasis want? they wouldn't have even started out as a band then!
Also, wrong wrong: Oasis are getting loads of new and young fans all
the time, not just "the hardcore base", and who is that base anyway, do
we need to dig out the cv's again and make a selection? rubbish! you're
a fascist!
(warning: you've entered the third gate already, be careful...)
MeMeMe
> Scream getting anywhere at all right now! we'll be forced to listen to
> them play in secret bunkers, like terrorists plotting the next attack,
> or they'll be forced to change their party line to survive and duh,
> sell... I mean for fucks sake, despise the masses all you like Mr
> Psychosis, you got good reasons and real good role models for that too
> and I'm not taking the piss here, but please, can't we have something
> in between? some good music that can actually get spread a bit more
> than by snob connoisseurs priding themselves on the latest discovery?
> cos that mentality makes me as sick as the media plugging the next big
> thing every two seconds. Why good riddance of "fickle" fans? is that
> what Oasis want? they wouldn't have even started out as a band then!
Well said. I don't understand this, "It's cool to be underground and the
mainstream have sold out!"
In real terms, mainstream = popular, lot's of people "like" it. Underground
= bad, everyone fucking hates it!
I've said it before and I'll say it again (please don't :-P... too late!),
if you've just spent months/years writing an album that you're very fucking
proud of, surely you'd want as many people as possible to hear it, to show
everyone what you've done, and just how fucking great you are?
Not in your crazy world it seems.
Your attitude is gonna seriously limit your life and job prospects! But, I
dunno, maybe you enjoy the paper-round...... the money's a bit shit though
isn't it?
Stand tall, be proud, look to the future and maybe you'll make "Shop
Assistant"!
P.S.
I know you didn't mention "underground" or "mainstream", but that's what you
were implying!.... not selling records is cool.... apparantly!
SettinS0n
journalist....i dunno man, i'm startin to feel that build up again. the press
is startin to jump back on the band wagon again....thats the frightening part!
going nowhere,
max
gigglygirl
be forced to play smallish clubs (yeah i know, wishful thinking :p).
gigglygirl
SettinS0n <sett...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20011025224053...@mb-md.aol.com...
Mr.Psychosis
Molly M wrote...
>I can't see the sales of that increasing either.... I can't see Primal
>Scream getting anywhere at all right now! we'll be forced to listen to
>them play in secret bunkers, like terrorists plotting the next attack,
>or they'll be forced to change their party line to survive and duh,
>sell...
I feel sorry for Prince Naseem Hamed.
As for Primal Scream, it'll be interesting to see if "Bomb The Pentagon"
sees the light of day. I doubt it. However, the basic idea of blowing up the
Pentagon with a bomb, as opposed to a plane full of civillians, is still a
valid one, if you see it as an act of war against an oppressive regime.
>I mean for fucks sake, despise the masses all you like Mr
>Psychosis, you got good reasons and real good role models for that too
>and I'm not taking the piss here, but please, can't we have something
>in between?
Why? If the masses aren't prepared to give "XTRMTR" or "Community Music" a
fair go, then why water it down to appeal to David Gray fans? Those two
albums were the best two albums of 2000, yet they sold fuck-all, thanks to
the Great British public.
>some good music that can actually get spread a bit more
>than by snob connoisseurs priding themselves on the latest discovery?
Who do you mean?
>cos that mentality makes me as sick as the media plugging the next big
>thing every two seconds. Why good riddance of "fickle" fans? is that
>what Oasis want? they wouldn't have even started out as a band then!
You can call me a snob if you want, but I'd rather Oasis sold 100,000 copies
of their next album to genuine fans who get it, than 10,000,000 copies to
fly-by-night fans who don't. I want Oasis albums to be battered and worn
out, not gathering dust under a pile of Celine Dion records.
>Also, wrong wrong: Oasis are getting loads of new and young fans all
>the time, not just "the hardcore base", and who is that base anyway, do
>we need to dig out the cv's again and make a selection? rubbish! you're
>a fascist!
If Oasis are gaining new young fans, then I consider them part of the
hardcore fanbase, because they aren't buying into what's fashionable. Having
said that, Oasis are more fashionable than two years ago, so you never know
what fans Oasis will have after the new album.
>(warning: you've entered the third gate already, be careful...)
Don't worry, I've brought some vaseline.
Mr.Psychosis
MeMeMe wrote...
>Well said. I don't understand this, "It's cool to be underground and the
>mainstream have sold out!"
The Velvet Underground, The Ramones, The Stooges, Love... all were
underground. Oasis are far from underground, but even if they were, that's
better than being Phil Collins.
>In real terms, mainstream = popular, lot's of people "like" it. Underground
>= bad, everyone fucking hates it!
No. In real terms, mainstream = bland, lots of people find it inoffensive;
underground = subversive, lots of people find it offensive.
>I've said it before and I'll say it again (please don't :-P... too late!),
>if you've just spent months/years writing an album that you're very fucking
>proud of, surely you'd want as many people as possible to hear it, to show
>everyone what you've done, and just how fucking great you are?
>
>Not in your crazy world it seems.
"It's not about being the biggest. It's about being the best."
>P.S.
>I know you didn't mention "underground" or "mainstream", but that's what
>you were implying!.... not selling records is cool.... apparantly!
No, making good music regardless of sales is cool.
Molly M
>
> Molly M wrote...
>
>> I can't see the sales of that increasing either.... I can't see Primal
>> Scream getting anywhere at all right now! we'll be forced to listen to
>> them play in secret bunkers, like terrorists plotting the next attack,
>> or they'll be forced to change their party line to survive and duh,
>> sell...
>
>
> I feel sorry for Prince Naseem Hamed.
Eh? got me lost here...
>
> As for Primal Scream, it'll be interesting to see if "Bomb The Pentagon"
> sees the light of day. I doubt it.
Oddly, I doubt it too, bad luck for them to be in the wrong place at
the wrong time... but they'd have been ingored all the same even last
year or two years ago, it's just not good marketing material ever, in
some countries at least. That kind of thing would sell quite well
around here though. But that's another story, it's not the point here.
> However, the basic idea of blowing up the
> Pentagon with a bomb, as opposed to a plane full of civillians, is still a
> valid one, if you see it as an act of war against an oppressive regime.
That again is antoher story, that's not the point here, I'm not going
to discuss what Primal Scream's own political suggestions and ideas are
cos they're not politicians but musicians and it's obvious to me that
is just a song, and a song is about symbols, and the point was: the
good bands are ignored in favour of hype for the crap bands, you say
"fair enough so it's only me me me listening to them cos people have
shit taste" and I say "rubbish, that's just you being a snob, and
ignoring the fact that people's tastes or rather purchases -cos we're
talking about CHARTS and SALES- are totally directed by the marketing
tactics of the industry".
So, I'd appreciate a system that would have made XTRMNTR more popular
and widely known than it was; or a band like South deservedly getting
appearances and most of all money to play a tour. Because good stuff
and talent DESERVES it, that's what those bands would love too. They
don't want overhype, but fair distribution of music. You can't despise
the masses as such, they don't exist as such, their collective
behaviour is just directed from above when it comes to $ale$.
Or are you still living on planet teletubbies?
>
>> I mean for fucks sake, despise the masses all you like Mr
>> Psychosis, you got good reasons and real good role models for that too
>> and I'm not taking the piss here, but please, can't we have something
>> in between?
>
>
> Why? If the masses aren't prepared to give "XTRMTR" or "Community Music" a
> fair go
How can they even give it a fair go if they've never even heard of it?
Do you get the point now? It's about how stuff gets channeled first,
not about people's tastes alone - it's the marketing we're talking of.
>, then why water it down to appeal to David Gray fans?
IS this a fair point? no! you're twisting the whole thing, who ever
said it should be watered down? I think loads of people would love it
as it is, but they don't even know who Primal Scream are - oh and
please, mr snob, look around and note that the world doesn't end with
the great british isles, I'm talking worldwide here, ok? cos that's how
it works these days, you know, though I'm sure you'd rather your fave
secret bands would just limit themselves to selling albums in your
local shop, don't you?
> Those two
> albums were the best two albums of 2000, yet they sold fuck-all, thanks to
> the Great British public.
HAHAHAHA!!!
Yes, you're still living on planet teletubbies.
Did you by the way see any promotion for Primal Scream at all? Did you
see any promotion for Asian Dub Foundation? Anything for South? Yeah I
do recall the video for Keep Close, and something on dotmusic and XFM
and mentions in the NME and similar music tabloids but it lasted about
two weeks then by a magician's trick it was all gone and back to the
usual you-know-who played 24/7 every fifteen minutes.
Some balance would be fair.
>
>
>> some good music that can actually get spread a bit more
>> than by snob connoisseurs priding themselves on the latest discovery?
>
>
> Who do you mean?
What I just said: I'd hate any band if it was plugged as shamelessly as
you-know-who - so I can understand this reaction if that's what you
meant, but at least, give them some chance to get heard, play shows,
get their songs and messages across.
But music promotion is not about democracy it's about sales, markets,
dollars. And democracy is not looking that different these days either.
So it's the whole system that decides what albums sell and what are
left to the small niches, it's all carefully planned out in some of
those shiny offices by men in suits, it's not decided by "the people"
or the public - they get to pick between what gets the most exposure.
(Just like elections).
And music is not some sort of religion for everyone, for most people
it's just something to enjoy, you can't call them fickle just cos
they're not obsessed fans as you, much as that obsession is a worthy
one for you.
We've had this talk before, and I know you won't accept a single bit of
different viewpoint here or even a reality check. It's a shame, cos I
do understand your reasons but not your conclusions that "it's the
people's shit taste so they deserve shit". You're missing the whole
picture there, it's sales, not taste.
>
>
>> cos that mentality makes me as sick as the media plugging the next big
>> thing every two seconds. Why good riddance of "fickle" fans? is that
>> what Oasis want? they wouldn't have even started out as a band then!
>
>
> You can call me a snob if you want, but I'd rather Oasis sold 100,000 copies
> of their next album to genuine fans who get it, than 10,000,000 copies to
> fly-by-night fans who don't. I want Oasis albums to be battered and worn
> out, not gathering dust under a pile of Celine Dion records.
Who cares! If it's a good album and they don't do it with the sales in
mind as first and foremost goal, then who fucking cares if a person
listening to Celine Dion ends up loving Oasis? they might change their
mind about Dion too, you know, people's *tastes* and not just purchases
can change and "evolve" if you meant that....
You're so thinking all in black/white, either/or, it just doesn't work
that way.
>> Also, wrong wrong: Oasis are getting loads of new and young fans all
>> the time, not just "the hardcore base", and who is that base anyway, do
>> we need to dig out the cv's again and make a selection? rubbish! you're
>> a fascist!
>
>
> If Oasis are gaining new young fans, then I consider them part of the
> hardcore fanbase, because they aren't buying into what's fashionable.
Oh come on get down from the planet you're on now! Oasis never stopped
being fashionable, they're celebs too, they are as fashionable as David
Beckham so stop thinking they're some secret materials for obsessed
fans only. Tickets sold out so fast even for these shows. The press may
have dissed them but they always talked about them. You know that Wilde
saying? "I don't care what they say about me as long as they talk about
me". Noel and Liam have always known this and fair play to them,
they've slyly used it to their advantage. And the music is good, so
that's the only thing that matters.
You don't get a gig on Sky Box Office if you're not fashionable.
Thank god they are!
> Having
> said that, Oasis are more fashionable than two years ago
Ok so I see you got the news on your planet too, good ;p
> , so you never know
> what fans Oasis will have after the new album.
LOL! do you seriously mean you care about what kind of fans Oasis have?
would you make a screening? ethnic cleansing of Oasis fans? let's pick
the worthiest one and ditch the "fickle" who just buy out of fashion?
everyone buys or checks out what's supposed to be "trendy" - didn't you
buy the Strokes too? didn't you check out all the possibly trendy bands
of the last few years too? did it matter, if the music was good itself?
>
>> (warning: you've entered the third gate already, be careful...)
>
>
> Don't worry, I've brought some vaseline.
That won't help you glide through the discussion more easily if you're
being so dishonest. You're just twisting facts to prove what you prefer
for yourself is right for everyone. Music as a secret cult for the
worthy fans. It's right the opposite of what music is really about:
good music is supposed to be spread to the four corners of the earth
like the gospel, not an occult book for the initiates of "good taste".
You're just buying into a myth that the market researchers have also
studied well in order to provide products for the niche consumers who
want to feel superior to the plebs. You're no more immune to the
workings of the system as those "masses with shit taste". We all get to
know music across the usual marketing channels, there's no other way.
Does it matter at all when you come to judge a band? You judge by the
music, not the fans. If good bands break the niche barrier and get
across to the masses, why not just be happy about it? Isn't that what
Oasis are about? isn't that what every band on earth would wish? Isn't
it about sharing, not hiding talents?
Molly M
>> when BHN came out around 1 million were sold in the first
>> week or so... .only 1 in 10 of the folk who were desperate to hear oasis in
>> 97 came out to pick up sotsog, which sold 100,000 in its first week.
>
>
> That's just the law of diminishing returns.
Algebra never had a place in the Oasis rollercoaster ride to success -
you guys all forget the real story here, here's a little memory pill:
SOTSOG sold less than BHN also due to Oasis pissing on their own
reputation and fucking up big time and canceling US tours and all -
they were dead to the press and public, Liam got caught with cocaine,
and by then it wasn't such a heroic feat was it, he smashed a few fans'
noses and all, got arrested in Australia, that mtv unplugged, drugs
drugs drugs etc. I mean they were throwing their success away,
literally. It's a fucking MIRACLE that they could even put out and sell
another album at all! And by then, they'd wised up, but to the rest of
the world they were still those crazy brothers fighting and splitting
up all the time and no one was willing to bet on them, so that's why
SOTSOG didn't sell that hugely, there was just no more expectations at
all (from critics, media,etc.).
It was not just the media deciding to hype it less than BHN, for no
reason at all - there were reasons for them to pick on in order to
consider them done and over with. It took some time and some tours to
prove they had still a chance.
>... to base anything on sales
> is completely bogus, imo.
Then go tell it to Noel! he is so obsessed with record sales himself,
isn't he? see the Sky interview? lol, sometimes he is just overdoing
it, he keeps thinking about how the albums sold and why and whose fault
it was that DM didnt' sell that much well man GET OVER IT! It's just
not as easy to listen to for everyone as MG that's all, it's not as
melodic and it's rougher so it's more rock-punk and less refined so I
guess MG was just nicer to get into as first approach, I know people
who can't stand it yet love stuff on MG.
Does that make them "unworthy" of Oasis? What the fuck, is it some kind
of obscure cult for initiates or just enjoying music as one wants and
decides for himself?
It does seem so odd, and funny, Mr P, that you end up denying to others
those very same absolute rights that you give yourself. Is it only you
having your own ears? think about it. You may be doing this out of
sheer passion, but it's still an elitist way of seeing music. It's the
Fun-Lovin' Taleban approach, it maybe fun for you but you're still a
fucking dictator. It's only a god given blessing that so many people
got to hear those classics on Morning Glory even if they're not
interested in the whole albums and b-sides and bootleg collection.
You're suffering from Noelitis, but he's not such a snob all the time.
;P
Molly M
> yeah, I hope they don't! I want oasis to be soo unpopular here that they'll
> be forced to play smallish clubs (yeah i know, wishful thinking :p).
ouch, now that's a hell of a good point for being snobs ;)
Mr.Psychosis
Molly M wrote...
>> I feel sorry for Prince Naseem Hamed.
>
>Eh? got me lost here...
He's a muslim boxer from Sheffield, via the Yemen. He goes on about Allah a
lot. Probably won't go down so well in the US right now.
>good bands are ignored in favour of hype for the crap bands, you say
>"fair enough so it's only me me me listening to them cos people have
>shit taste" and I say "rubbish, that's just you being a snob, and
>ignoring the fact that people's tastes or rather purchases -cos we're
>talking about CHARTS and SALES- are totally directed by the marketing
>tactics of the industry".
Rollocks! If I want to see a decent film, I'll ignore all the marketing hype
surrounding shite like Titanic and see a film *I* want to see. The same with
books: I'm not gonna buy a Jackie Collins book just because it's been hyped
to high-heaven. Why can't it be the same for music? Why do people have to be
force-fed the good stuff? If you ain't happy with David Gray and the
Stereophobics, you should be prepared to investigate what other music is
available. The people who buy that shite are obviously not interested in
better stuff. So be it. If they can't be arsed to look elsewhere, they don't
deserve to hear decent music.
>So, I'd appreciate a system that would have made XTRMNTR more popular
>and widely known than it was;
I'd like a system that would make the Coen brothers more popular than the
Farrely (sp?) brothers, but the general public are tasteless twats, so it'll
never happen. I certainly don't lose any sleep over it.
>or a band like South deservedly getting
>appearances and most of all money to play a tour. Because good stuff
>and talent DESERVES it, that's what those bands would love too. They
>don't want overhype, but fair distribution of music. You can't despise
>the masses as such, they don't exist as such, their collective
>behaviour is just directed from above when it comes to $ale$.
Would The Stooges have been better if they had sold more records? No. Would
The Ramones have been better? No. If you love what you are doing, money and
fame is just a by-product. The thing that matters is the music. I'd like to
see bands like South and Delakota be more popular, but the sort of music
they make isn't populist. They've chosen to make slightly leftfield music,
and the general public don't like leftfield music because it's too
*difficult*. Stuff 'em. We've been through this before. Let's just agree to
disagree.
>> Why? If the masses aren't prepared to give "XTRMTR" or "Community Music"
>> a fair go
>
>How can they even give it a fair go if they've never even heard of it?
I've fucking heard of it, so why can't they? Cos they aren't fucking
interested. They have no taste. I don't belong to a secret music club. It's
all out there in the shops. "XTRMNTR" got good reviews in practically every
music publication in the western world, but still those tasteless fuckers
bought the Corrs. That's the sort of music they want. If it wasn't, the
record companies wouldn't spend so much money flogging it to them.
>Do you get the point now? It's about how stuff gets channeled first,
>not about people's tastes alone - it's the marketing we're talking of.
No amount of marketing is gonna force me to like something I don't like. If
there are people out there whose tastes are manipulated by the marketing
men, then they deserve all they get. They obviously have no mind of their
own.
>IS this a fair point? no! you're twisting the whole thing, who ever
>said it should be watered down? I think loads of people would love it
>as it is, but they don't even know who Primal Scream are
If people don't even know who Primal Scream are, they obviously ain't
reading music magazines; they ain't listening to the right radio shows. It's
not that difficult to find out about decent bands these days. The internet
allows someone in practically every country in the world to find out about
artists they wouldn't normally have heard of. Once again, we're going round
in circles. This is getting boring. I'm just glad tinhead isn't here.
>oh and
>please, mr snob, look around and note that the world doesn't end with
>the great british isles, I'm talking worldwide here, ok?
Doesn't make any difference. The mainstream in every country is shit. The
good stuff is invariably found at the margins. Always has been, probably
always will be. Italy is no different.
>cos that's how
>it works these days, you know, though I'm sure you'd rather your fave
>secret bands would just limit themselves to selling albums in your
>local shop, don't you?
Now who's twisting things?
>Did you by the way see any promotion for Primal Scream at all?
They got good reviews in Q, NME, Uncut, Mojo, Rolling Stone, Spin, The
Times, The Telegraph... Don't the general public read any of these
publications? Don't they listen to good radio programmes? Sure, they may not
have major advertising campaigns on prime-time telly, but neither do the
Coen Brothers or James Ellroy. That's the way it is. I still know they're
better than the shite that *does* get advertised on telly. I firmly believe
we get to hear, see and read the music, films and books we deserve. If you
like mainstream stuff, you'll keep buying it. If you don't, you'll buy stuff
from the margins. Where's the fucking problem?
I can't be arsed anymore. Let's just agree to disagree. You think lazy
bastards should be force-fed the good stuff. I think those lazy bastards
should get off their arses and look for it. I don't think lazy bastards
deserve good music. You do. End of story.
Molly M
Dear Mister Benito W. Bin Blair, now, listen, I don't mean any harm to
you personally, no offence like, but can I humbly, with all due respect
and honour for your immense power and superiority observe that...
*kneels down*
....you have NO FUCKING CLUE what it's like in other countries for
music on radio, tv, or magazines!!! why d'you think we had to buy a
huge dish to put on the roof and pay your mate his majesty King Merdoch
of the Sky to get a glimpse of anything DECENT being played on radio or
tv or mentioned anywhere? how on earth would I have stumbled on South
if it wasn't for that? how on earth would I have stumbled on Delakota
if someone you know well hadn't sent me a tape? you know, that's what
I'd like it to be in the media too: stumble on things, not make such an
effort. It's not a job, listening to music! I can't be scouring the
earth and every possible corner of every radio and magazine (that I
don't even get here, but you so ignore it!) to find out about the
legendary pearls of "good underground stuff" that are not even visible
to the naked eye?
YES, I'm a lazy bastard too, yes, but it's in my blood it's my
philosophy of life and it's NICE! discovering music you love is not
about hard work it's like opening a nice surprise package, it's like
stumbling in someone you know in town, it's like meeting a friend you'd
lost touch with, that's what I like to happen when I want to hear good
new music, but it's happened only once this year. ...sniff...
All the other bands I like are *already* mainstream and not new at all.
I love mainstream. Oasis are mainstream. Pulp and Spiritualized and New
Order are too. But it'll be nice to have a replenishment of new young
fresh good stuff. I don't care if it's margins or mainstream I don't
even know where one ends and the other starts. I just don't like the
next big things that have been so hyped in the past two years. I want
more than market research material. I pay my taxes too, damn, Tony!
don't I have any rights? it's pouring rain out now, what are you gonna
do about it? I'm the helpless mass just like anyone else. I have shit
taste too, I even like to hum along to "I'm in the middle of a chain
reaction" and "because I got high because I got high because I got
hiiiiiigh" but I also like a stronger fix, so to speak.
Why does it have to be so hard for me that I have to channel surf three
hours betwen all those music channels and radio stations before hearing
one single half-decent tuuuuune? What power do we have to select the
radio playlists or mtv rotation videos or magazine articles or even the
bloody charts that are already prepackaged week by week by market
researchers with their hundred devious ways to use the people's need
for music and entertainment and fun of all kinds in order to ensure the
easiest quickest route to a huge bank account in industry heaven?
....sniff... booo... I can't even get to pick the movies that play at
the local cinema, don't know about UK, maybe people there are allowed
to do that? if so, can I get a visa there or is it too late now? will
you at least send humanitarian aid in the form of a £900 checque so I
can buy and check out all the stuff that my privileged mates in uk tell
me about? thank you, I apply to your well known fairness and human
compassion to grant me musical asylum.
Most grateful,
a scared and dirty refugee from a very poorly known and unfairly
discriminated colony of the grate britrock empire