Kurt Cobain dead
Michael Halleen
: It's all over the news, so I guess it's true. Kurt Cobain was found dead
: this morning of a self-inflicted gunshot wound to the head.
Heard it here in Chicago too. 2:30 on on WXRT.
--
Michael Halleen | "When you're on target, you're catching flak"
Chicago, IL | -- Lt. Col. Bo Gritz
hal...@mcs.com |
PGP key ftp mcs.com /work/public/mcsnet.users/halleen or request by email
Type O Negative
>Steve Owen (ow...@conslt.enet.dec.com) wrote:
>
>: It's all over the news, so I guess it's true. Kurt Cobain was found dead
>: this morning of a self-inflicted gunshot wound to the head.
>
>Heard it here in Chicago too. 2:30 on on WXRT.
Heard it here too on LIVE 105.......I guess getting dumped from
Lollapalooza was too much for him.........
--
/\_./o__ The Mysterious Dragon
(/^/(_^^' Manuka Tamer at Large
._.(_.)_ I'm a dragon so I have an excuse to flame.
Steve Owen
It's all over the news, so I guess it's true. Kurt Cobain was found dead
this morning of a self-inflicted gunshot wound to the head.
8^(
Why is it that the talented ones always have to be the ones that are f*cked up
in the head?
-Steve
*****************************************************************************
Steve Owen
ow...@conslt.enet.dec.com Don't squirt silly string into the wind...
*****************************************************************************
GSM and CCH
: In article <2o4bgm$j...@Mercury.mcs.com> hal...@MCS.COM (Michael Halleen) writes:
: Heard it here too on LIVE 105.......I guess getting dumped from
: Lollapalooza was too much for him.........
: --
: /\_./o__ The Mysterious Dragon
: (/^/(_^^' Manuka Tamer at Large
: ._.(_.)_ I'm a dragon so I have an excuse to flame.
What a horribly trite and crass thing to say! I'm sure Kurt had problems
we don't even know about; attributing his suicide to "...getting
dumped from Lollapalooza..." is not only stupid, it's also heartless.
-Greta
dumped from Lollapalooza..." is not only stupid, it's also heartless.
DucksUnintimidated
|>
|> Why is it that the talented ones always have to be the ones that are f*cked up
|> in the head?
|>
Why is it that the ones that are f*cked up in the head always have to be the
talented ones?
Paul
Mark Edward Mauer
Sorry Kurt.
Wish we could have helped you.
Mark Matula
>It's all over the news, so I guess it's true. Kurt Cobain was found dead
>this morning of a self-inflicted gunshot wound to the head.
Not necessarily.... That's what they said about Paul...
>8^(
>Why is it that the talented ones always have to be the ones that are f*cked up
>in the head?
Whoever said he was talented? I guess you are entitled to your opinion, but
I think Nirvana sucked. Anyway, I don't mean to piss on a man's grave (if
in fact it is true), so I'll just leave with this though...
...when is Eddie Vedder's turn?
>-Steve
>*****************************************************************************
>Steve Owen
>ow...@conslt.enet.dec.com Don't squirt silly string into the wind...
>*****************************************************************************
(Flame suit on and armed.)
--
I have nothing more to say at this time, thank you.
--Mark Matula mma...@casbah.acns.nwu.edu
Aron Borok
Oh, get over it! I'm sure our fire-breathing lizard friend didn't mean it so
literally. And come on, like this wasn't waiting to happen. Hell, his
marriage was compared to Sid and Nancy. It was bound to end in someone's
death. I just find it so damn ironic that this newsgroup just came on. Oh
well, mourning the suicide of another overrated musician.
Rob Pfile
> It's all over the news, so I guess it's true. Kurt Cobain was found dead
> this morning of a self-inflicted gunshot wound to the head.
> 8^(
yikes! are you kidding? 8^(? it should be 8^)!
now we twentynothings have a martyr! I'm sure MTV is just going to go ape-shit.
> Why is it that the talented ones always have to be the ones that are
> f*cked up in the head?
it sucks for courtney love and their love-child, but hey, now Nirvana
will be ultra-huge!
P.H. Van broekhoven
>What a horribly trite and crass thing to say! I'm sure Kurt had problems
>we don't even know about; attributing his suicide to "...getting
>dumped from Lollapalooza..." is not only stupid, it's also heartless.
...and I'd say blowing yourself out of the lives of your wife and child
is as you say "not only stupid, it's also heartless".
--
You aren't really drunk if you can lay on the floor without hanging on.
_______________________________________________________________________
Peter van Broekhoven u910...@muss.cis.mcmaster.ca
Joshua Ling
>In <2o4adm$b...@jac.zko.dec.com> ow...@conslt.enet.dec.com (Steve Owen) writes:
>>It's all over the news, so I guess it's true. Kurt Cobain was found dead
>>this morning of a self-inflicted gunshot wound to the head.
>>8^(
>
>>Why is it that the talented ones always have to be the ones that are f*cked up
>>in the head?
>Whoever said he was talented? I guess you are entitled to your opinion, but
>I think Nirvana sucked. Anyway, I don't mean to piss on a man's grave (if
>in fact it is true), so I'll just leave with this though...
>...when is Eddie Vedder's turn?
The world is in such a fucked up state today because assholes like
you aren't the ones that are killing themselves.
When's your turn?
Thought Police
: Lollapalooza was too much for him.........
Did you ever consider that its fuckheads like you wanting him to play
at lollapalooza that drove him to do it? The man didn't want to be an
idol.
Axl
>
>: It's all over the news, so I guess it's true. Kurt Cobain was found dead
>: this morning of a self-inflicted gunshot wound to the head.
>
>Heard it here in Chicago too. 2:30 on on WXRT.
>
*sigh* fuck fuck fuck...can anyone offer any insight on WHY???
Could last month's drug overdose have been intentional?? Any details
would be appreciated by many, I'm sure.
-axl
Brian Loehr
I hear it is all rumors my sister lives in seatlle, and they had the
whole 5:00 news dedicated to Kurt.
--
cybe...@teleport.COM Public Access User --- Not affiliated with TECHbooks
Public Access UNIX and Internet at (503) 220-0636 (1200/2400, N81)
Daniel H|gkvist
>In article <2o4adm$b...@jac.zko.dec.com> ow...@conslt.enet.dec.com (Steve Owen) writes:
>> It's all over the news, so I guess it's true. Kurt Cobain was found dead
>> this morning of a self-inflicted gunshot wound to the head.
>> 8^(
>yikes! are you kidding? 8^(? it should be 8^)!
>now we twentynothings have a martyr! I'm sure MTV is just going to go ape-shit.
I think it's sad that so many artits don't get known until after they've died.
Now the record company will release a Greatest Hits album and probably lots
of live material (as MTV unplugged). Why don't they do such things when the
artists are still alive?
>it sucks for courtney love and their love-child, but hey, now Nirvana
>will be ultra-huge!
Yeah, probably...
--
Daniel Hogkvist | /\ This message was
Lysator, Linkoping University | / \ brought to you by
Sweden | / () \ the Illuminati.
email: dan...@lysator.liu.se | /______\ Fnord.
NOWIMNOTHING
because the trendy-alternative-mosh-pit-pimply-faced-angst-filled teens of
this nation wanted him to play Lollapalooser? Get real... All he had to
do was retire a rich man at age 27, instead of a poor corpse at age 27.
Suicide is such a loser way out.
Andy
--
dancing skinless in the salt room...
math...@academic.csubak.edu
tun...@academic.csubak.edu
karyn kim
: It's all over the news, so I guess it's true. Kurt Cobain was found dead
: this morning of a self-inflicted gunshot wound to the head.
: 8^(
: Why is it that the talented ones always have to be the ones that are f*cked up
: in the head?
: -Steve
Don't you know, that is why they are talented !
kk
Scott Garrison
been offered the headline slot twice (once in '92 and once in '94), and
had turned it down twice. I didn't think Cobain and Co. would ever join
Farrell's team, unless they needed a comeback.
If you read the Musician interview with Kurt Cobain from October or
November of last year, there may be some clues as to what accounted for
his decision to die. Maybe his "mysterious stomach pains" that had been
plaguing him for over two years (and which explained his descent into a
heroin hell during most of '92) are part of the cause. Another part of
the cause may have been Cobain's discomfort with the kind of fame he,
Novoselic and Grohl had achieved since '91. Time and time again we hear
that the pressures of stardom can get to people; looks like that's what
happened here. My main theory is that Kurt Cobain had flirted with
killing himself several times (e.g., via heroin, champagne/pills, etc.)
over the past couple of years, and that he'd finally had enough of all
what he saw as all the shit he had to deal with (in terms of expectation
placed on him by his band, his family, and the rest of the world).
After Nirvana broke in '91, Cobain had been quoted in saying that making
music lost the enjoyment it had had for him when he was writing songs
in his bedroom in Aberdeen, WA.
Looks like his life lost meaning, maybe because he was no longer in as
much control over it as he wanted to be.
Just my $0.02. --SG
st sebastian
Aron Borok <adb...@casbah.acns.nwu.edu> wrote:
> I just find it so damn ironic that this newsgroup just came on.
Ironic? How about suspicious?
--
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Not right, but wrong in a good way. | Because we're young, because we're gone
- Ween | We'll take the tide's electric mind,
:)* | oh yeah?, oh yeah - Suede
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Lamont Granquist
>Suicide is such a loser way out.
I'm getting tired of writing replies telling idiots like this to fuck off...
Once again, i hope you never suffer from clinical depression because i doubt
you'd be able to handle it. And i hope that no one near you ever suffers
from clinical depression, because your advice is likely to make them worse...
--
Lamont Granquist (lam...@u.washington.edu)
The Complete X-Generation Manifesto: We hereby resolve that attempts by older
generations to blindly label and categorize things in an attempt to fit them
into their defective world-view shall be condemned. The End.
Dave Sill
In a previous article, math...@academic.csubak.edu (NOWIMNOTHING) says:
>Suicide is such a loser way out.
Thanks for rubbing salt in the wound. Don't you think you could wait a
week or two at least before you grace us all with your phenominal insights?
--
Dave Sill Ask me about the JudyBats mailing list.
cf...@cleveland.freenet.edu
Dave Sill
In a previous article, mw...@netcom.com (st sebastian) says:
>> I just find it so damn ironic that this newsgroup just came on.
>
>Ironic? How about suspicious?
What do you mean? As the one who issued the newgroup message for
alt.music.nirvana, I must say the coincidence struck me almost immediately.
For the record, the group was created right around 3:30 pm EST, Wednesday.
James Tsillas
I read somewhere that suicide rates are much higher (along with
alcoholism) in the northwestern states.
Some people feel it is because of the weather.
-Jim.
--
*** James Tsillas jts...@ccs.neu.edu ***
*** Work: (508)898-2800, Home: (617)924-3908 ***
*** "He is after me. Jim is after him." ***
*** - Hop on Pop, Dr. Seuss ***
Type O Negative
Did you ever consider that its fuckheads like you that _ASSUME_ things
without actual knowledge that may have driven Kurt to do it?@#?@!@#$?!!
Almost everyone else realized that this was an attempt to lighten up
the brevity of the situation. Its also really sad that there are
people out there that _ASSUME_ Kurt did it because he turned into an
idol.....maybe you should realize that his suicide MAY have had nothing
to do with the music and could have resulted from a number of other
things too.....maybe we'll find out if the note is ever released.....
GSM and CCH
: the brevity of the situation. Its also really sad that there are
: --
: /\_./o__ The Mysterious Dragon
: (/^/(_^^' Manuka Tamer at Large
: ._.(_.)_ I'm a dragon so I have an excuse to flame.
Uh, don't you mean *gravity*? Whatever your intentions were, what you said
was in pretty poor taste.
-Greta
Michael Deleon
>math...@academic.csubak.edu (NOWIMNOTHING) writes:
>>Suicide is such a loser way out.
>
>I'm getting tired of writing replies telling idiots like this to fuck off...
>
different opinion than you?
>Once
>again, i hope you never suffer from clinical depression because i doubt
>you'd be able to handle it. And i hope that no one near you ever suffers
>from clinical depression, because your advice is likely to make them worse...
>Lamont Granquist (lam...@u.washington.edu)
Lamont, I do suffer from clinical depression and while I certainly understand
the loss people feel, I also can't help feeling disgust about a man who
had more opportunity than most to seek out psychological help. Meanwhile,
millions of people are suffering from depression without the means
of getting help. I have to scrape to afford therapy and medication but I
continue with it because I know the alternative is hopelessness. In
other words, let's not cry for a guy who had the money and the support
of the supposed "X Gen" to help him out of his downward spiral.
Let's face it, he had at least one small child who was counting on
him and his response was basically, "fuck you, kid. I'm outta here."
Michael
del...@netcom.com
CUPERY MARCIA HELEN
: Sorry Kurt.
: Wish we could have helped you.
Right on.
--
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Marcia H. Cupery U of Idaho English Dept. cupe...@uidaho.edu
"I'm worst at what I do best and for this gift I feel blessed, I found it
hard, it was hard to find, oh well, whatever, nevermind..."
--Kurt Cobain
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Christopher J. Woods
There is one reason, and one reason only; all the other "reasons" are
incidental.
Kurt Cobain was depressed. No, not "the blues", not a sadness brought on
by any outside situations, or events.
Some may know what depression REALLY is. It is an INCURABLE chemical
imbalance; specifically, a shortage of dopamine in the synapses. The
situation can be rectified with medication such as tricyclics, MAOI's, or
SRI's, but it essentially incurable.
And about the speculation that "all the talented ones are fucked up",
well, there seems to be more than just a coincidental link there. Many of
the most brilliant minds of our time, and of times past, were also either
depressed or manic depressive. Albert Einstein was manic (or manic
depressive), as was L. van Beethoven, and Mozart, and the list is nearly
endless. (I'm sure we all remember Morrison...)
All the other "situational" things were probably also symptoms of the
depression: the "pressure" of fame, mysterious stomach pains
(gastrointestinal difficulty is often a symptom of depression), substance
abuse...
In any case, it is a tragic thing that an illness can go virtually
unnoticed by the public, and the majority of people remain ignorant of
such things and attribute the cause of suicide and substance abuse to
situational circumstances such as "pressure of fame".
I mourn Kurt's tragic death, and the loss Courtney and their daughter must
feel. My heart goes out to them, and to the millions of people who suffer
in similar ways.
Including myself.
I thank technology for the advent of Prozac, and other SRI's like Zoloft.
My life has changed for the better since i started on Zoloft.
-Chris
--
Christopher J. Woods | TIAC Unix shell help desk
cwo...@genesis.nred.ma.us | TIAC: The Internet Access Company
cjw...@max.tiac.net | The opinions expressed above are not
TIAC voice +1 617 275 2221 | necessarily those of TIAC or its staff
J. Zarboni
>In article <2o7f56$2...@news.u.washington.edu> lam...@u.washington.edu (Lamont Granquist) writes:
>>math...@academic.csubak.edu (NOWIMNOTHING) writes:
>>>Suicide is such a loser way out.
>>
>
>the loss people feel, I also can't help feeling disgust about a man who
>had more opportunity than most to seek out psychological help. Meanwhile,
>millions of people are suffering from depression without the means
Okay, so we all agree that Kurt commiting suicide was not good. Whether
for his (possible) cowardlyness, his clinical depression, whatever. The
point is WHY did it happen. Did we as fan's contribute to it, or was it
something else. Why is our society so messed up that people feel the
only way for relief is suicide.
Let's mourn the loss of a rather talented artist, another human being.
And what about the rest of the band? Okay so without Kurt , one might
say Nirvana could not exist. So he left them in a lurch, their careers
bashed. What now? And are we going to stay fans of them, or has our
loyalty died with Kurt? Was Kurt really the ONLY talent that made Nirvana?
We all saw it comming....so did his mother...so why are we all so surprised?
JT.
Juan Molinari
>It's all over the news, so I guess it's true. Kurt Cobain was found dead
>this morning of a self-inflicted gunshot wound to the head.
>in the head?
No, dear. The great majority of us are fucked up in the head, but
if you, me and dear ol' Kurt shot ourselves on the same drunken
evening, who do you think would make it to the cover of the New York
Times? (Or whatever).
It not fame that makes you mad. It just makes you famous.
--
____ Juan G. Molinari (716) 475-3643
\HI/ ju...@clark.net Rochester, NY
\/ "Let's sacrifice him to our gods! ... Well, why not?
we used to do it all the time in the 30's..." -- Abraham Simpson
John Gary
you guys won't believe this, but i was driving home from wisconsin today and i
stopped by mel's cheese castle, cause hey, cheese, yah know, and i went to the
drive up window and ordered myself a round of brie and some good ole chedder,
and when i drove up to the window to pick it up, i swear, kurt cobain handed
it to me and said, "hey, man, it's on me." i drove off, i couldn't believe
it.
so i stopped off at the quicky mart to get a slurpy, 'cause i needed something
to wash down the chedder round, and i swear, kurt was playing super mario bros
in the corner. as i was leaving, i called out "kurt!" and he started to turn
around, and then he seemed to catch himself, and he went back to his game.
the old guy at the counter said "boy, if you don;t want to get into a passel
of trouble, i suggest you just walk right out and forget about him. he
doesn't want that anymore. he's gone, dead. he's left us for good. that's
the way we all want it."
so i walked out.
we miss you kurt.
max
Karl Geiger
>
>now we twentynothings have a martyr! I'm sure MTV is just going to go
>now Nirvana will be ultra-huge!
Bang on. Excellent career move, Cobain.
Kurt has joined a long and prestigious list of one-way Orpheuses, a
suicide at the acme of his creative life. Xers at last have one of
their own to hold up next to Elvis, Morrison, Holly, and ilk, and can
claim their pain is as real as the Boomers' and Beats'.
Record execs are of course ecstatic. Look for posthumous platinum for
Nirvana and a repackaged "Best of Nirvana". Further down the road
some latter-day Michael Jackson will get control of the rights and
market his stuff in 15 years (listen for Nirvana ballads recast as
grocery store muzak in 2-3 years). I only hope Cobain left
instructions to insure Courtney Love and his child by her get some of
the revenue stream.
Ironic notes: The L.A. Times today (Sunday) reports the body was
identified by fingerprinting (no head, no dread). The paper's
entertainment magazine, Calendar has an upbeat series of articles
about girl rockers built around Courtney Love and Hole.
Dying is easy, living hard.
:kg
"And so the Trojans buried Hector, breaker of horses."
Glenn Saunders
: I'm getting tired of writing replies telling idiots like this to fuck off...
: Once again, i hope you never suffer from clinical depression because i doubt
: you'd be able to handle it. And i hope that no one near you ever suffers
: from clinical depression, because your advice is likely to make them worse...
: --
Let's face it, Kurt was fucked in the head. If he was sick he should
have been institutionalized. YOu can't intellectualize his decision to
kill himself into something that we are supposed to "understand". It was
just plain dumb and that is all there is too it. If he was too sick in
the head to think rationally about this he should have been thrown into a
loony bin but because he was so rich he was surrounded by sycophants who
let him self-destruct just the way all the other rock stars did, only
this time it wasn't a slow burn out of a chemical dependency but an overt
suicide.
If he were single that is one thing, but he had a child and everything.
There is no way anyone is going to convince me that he had a sane reason
to commit suicide. If he wasn't getting what he wanted from music why
not pick up a different hobby? I can understand him being displeased
with his life but the QUALITY of his life was so much better after
becoming rich that it is really a slap on the face for all the
blue-collar workers out there for someone to try to prove that Kurt had
such a bad quality of life that death was his only way out when he had
more money than GOD and the rest of his life to look forward to.
It's definitely a "Doors" deathwish deal, but at least Jim lasted a few
more years than Cobain.
There is NO reason behind it, it was a SICK act. If you validate him for
comitting suicide then there are a LOT of sucessful musicians in his
category who by your reasoning should blow their heads off too.
Life is more precious than that.
Ryannosaurus
>pf...@sun21.cs.wisc.edu (Rob Pfile) writes:
>>In article <2o4adm$b...@jac.zko.dec.com> ow...@conslt.enet.dec.com (Steve Owen) writes:
>>> It's all over the news, so I guess it's true. Kurt Cobain was found dead
>>> this morning of a self-inflicted gunshot wound to the head.
>>> 8^(
>>yikes! are you kidding? 8^(? it should be 8^)!
>>now we twentynothings have a martyr! I'm sure MTV is just going to go ape-shit.
>I think it's sad that so many artits don't get known until after they've died.
>Now the record company will release a Greatest Hits album and probably lots
>of live material (as MTV unplugged). Why don't they do such things when the
>artists are still alive?
>>it sucks for courtney love and their love-child, but hey, now Nirvana
>>will be ultra-huge!
>Yeah, probably...
You've raised an interesting point, already a lot of non-fans are
clamoring onto the band wagon, I guess just to be trendy or whatever.
One friend of mine, who never expressed *any* interest in any of the
alternative music I listen to, in favor of hearing my old AC/DC stuff
over and over again, told me "Nirvana is my favorite group" after I told
her the news.
Funny, she didn't seem too interested in Nirvana 4 months ago when I had
tickets to see them & asked her to tag along.
--
"i hurt myself today XXX Ryannosaurus - King of the Lizardz
to see if i still feel XXX lizr...@teleport.com
i focus on the pain N.I.N. XXX Ryan Jay Gavin
the only thing that's real" hurt XXX "Resistance is futile..."
Big Daddy Ed
>Kurt Cobain was depressed. No, not "the blues", not a sadness brought on
>by any outside situations, or events.
>
>Some may know what depression REALLY is. It is an INCURABLE chemical
>imbalance; specifically, a shortage of dopamine in the synapses. The
>situation can be rectified with medication such as tricyclics, MAOI's, or
>SRI's, but it essentially incurable.
contributed to the overprescribing of Prozac and other effective
antidepressants. It is rare that depression can be attributed to only one
cause; while a chemical imbalance can be the basis for it, outside factors
almost always play a role. And depression can sometimes be attributed to
purely outside causes.
-Ed
NOWIMNOTHING
>math...@academic.csubak.edu (NOWIMNOTHING) writes:
>>Suicide is such a loser way out.
>
>I'm getting tired of writing replies telling idiots like this to fuck off...
>
>Once again, i hope you never suffer from clinical depression because i doubt
>you'd be able to handle it.
No... my mother nearly killed herself in a fit of depression last year... if
I would have left her, as she asked me to, she would have blown her head off
with one of my dad's shotguns. Don't tell me I don't know, asshole... suicide
is still a self-centered loser way of handling your emotional problems.
So fuck off.
And i hope that no one near you ever suffers
>from clinical depression, because your advice is likely to make them worse...
>
Andy
--
i hope they bury him in a heart-shaped box
math...@academic.csubak.edu
Fled Fairlane
| In article <2o5f5e$p...@usenet.rpi.edu>, gen...@crockett1a.its.rpi.edu (Thought Police) writes:
| I don't buy that shit at all. Do you really think that Kurt committed suicide
| because the trendy-alternative-mosh-pit-pimply-faced-angst-filled teens of
| this nation wanted him to play Lollapalooser? Get real... All he had to
| do was retire a rich man at age 27, instead of a poor corpse at age 27.
| Suicide is such a loser way out.
|
Maybe he thought music was the only thing that could make him happy, and
then it turned into something that he hated. Some people think about
something other than being rich.
=O.| fled
=O
Mark Strecker
>death. I just find it so damn ironic that this newsgroup just came on. Oh
>well, mourning the suicide of another overrated musician.
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
I just want to mention that this 'overrated musician' turned the music
industry on its ear. With "Nevermind", they went to no. 1 in 4 weeks, knocking
off such heavyweights as Michael Jackson, and both of Guns and Roses' Illusion
cds. This promptly killed off the glam-crap-80's-rock, and ushered in a new
'era' in rock music. Then "In Utero", debutted at No. 1. I don't know of any
band that had done that in any kind of recent history. So just what is _your_
definition of overrated anyway???
Mark
--
Seems like the more I think I know, the more I find I don't.
Every 'answer' opens up so many questions. DK
Jacob Childress
>Heard it here too on LIVE 105.......I guess getting dumped from
>Lollapalooza was too much for him.........
Are you joking??? I seriously doubt if he gave a shit about being on
Lollapalooza...
SL17STU
>in the head?
It's not just the talented ones Steve. We're ALL fucked in the head.
Some of us are just better at dealing with it.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
WESLEY: This is Iocaine powder. It's odorless, colorless and dissolves
almost instantly in liquid. its one of the most deadly poisons
in the world.
HUMPERDINK: (SNIFF) (SNIFF)-- Iocaine powder, I bet my life on it.
-The Princess Bride
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dean Collins
>| do was retire a rich man at age 27, instead of a poor corpse at age 27.
>| Suicide is such a loser way out.
>Maybe he thought music was the only thing that could make him happy, and
>then it turned into something that he hated. Some people think about
>something other than being rich.
I think you've hit on one of the reasons for this tragedy. I just got
home from the Kurt Cobain candle-light vigil here in Seattle. Courtney
Love read parts of his suicide note to the crowd (her message was taped.)
You'll probably find full excerpts elsewhere soon, but I thought it
would be appropriate to mention that one reason he lists for doing
it was that he didn't get any enjoyment out of performing music anymore.
In fact, he hated what he was doing, and he didn't want to go on
faking it for everyone and acting like it was such fun.
I think that since music was his life, in his warped state of mind he
didn't see any reason to go on living. The one thing he loved above
all else (performing music) he now hated.
Courtney Love asked everyone to call him an asshole for doing this.
She couldn't understand why he didn't just quit the whole rock-star thing.
Her talk was very hard to listen too. It was _very_ emotional.
Dean
Gooner
: In article <2o4ghj$b...@oak.oakland.edu> gsma...@vela.acs.oakland.edu (GSM and CCH) writes:
: >What a horribly trite and crass thing to say! I'm sure Kurt had problems
: >we don't even know about; attributing his suicide to "...getting
: >dumped from Lollapalooza..." is not only stupid, it's also heartless.
: ...and I'd say blowing yourself out of the lives of your wife and child
: is as you say "not only stupid, it's also heartless".
exactly! it's little frances i feel sorry for. nirvana was a great band, and
the cobain boy probably had a lot of shit flying around in his head... we
all have! he also had loads of mates, a good life, and most importantly a
wife, and a little week kid who's going to grow up
without her dad, and when she's older will know he was a jumped-up,
selfish tosser who blew himself away. great music, shame about the attitude.
: --
: You aren't really drunk if you can lay on the floor without hanging on.
: _______________________________________________________________________
: Peter van Broekhoven u910...@muss.cis.mcmaster.ca
--
!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?
! Graham Dietz (g.r....@bradford.ac.uk) (0274) 383290 ?
! Student Development Coordinator University of Bradford ?
!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?
Gooner
Lars
Wake up my friend and you will see,
Your dream is my reality.
was signed: Lars.
David Gregory Platt
>Type O Negative (161...@hammel.qal.berkeley.edu) wrote:
>: Heard it here too on LIVE 105.......I guess getting dumped from
>: Lollapalooza was too much for him.........
>Did you ever consider that its fuckheads like you wanting him to play
>at lollapalooza that drove him to do it? The man didn't want to be an
>idol.
Here's where I lose a little sympathy for Kurt. His whole attitude about
"not wanting to be a star" seemed to me to be particular mean to his fans.
Whay couldn't he just let them enjoy his music?
It's still pretty sad. However, I was never a Nirvana fan, and I think it
would be hypocritical to say otherwise now. It's disturbing how people
become more famous after they die.
Dave
Surinder Singh-Chand
: Michael
: del...@netcom.com
First of all, watch your language. Second, depression is not something you
can throw money at and buy relief from. Depression is not a 'disease' you
can get a cure for. In other words Cobain was in no more a better position
then the next man if he suffered from depression or something similar.
Just another rambling.
Surinder. M.A.D.
Myche'jae-Bel
Mark Strecker <mstr...@uceng.uc.edu> wrote:
>In article <2o4jiq$r...@news.acns.nwu.edu> adb...@casbah.acns.nwu.edu (Aron Borok) writes:
>>death. I just find it so damn ironic that this newsgroup just came on. Oh
>>well, mourning the suicide of another overrated musician.
>> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>
>I just want to mention that this 'overrated musician' turned the music
>industry on its ear. With "Nevermind", they went to no. 1 in 4 weeks, knocking
>off such heavyweights as Michael Jackson, and both of Guns and Roses' Illusion
>cds. This promptly killed off the glam-crap-80's-rock, and ushered in a new
>'era' in rock music. Then "In Utero", debutted at No. 1. I don't know of any
>band that had done that in any kind of recent history. So just what is _your_
>definition of overrated anyway???
>
>Mark
It's been my experience that ratings have little to do with
musicianship.
Mike
--
----------------------------------------------------------------------
"Carved upon my stone | mi...@umbc.edu (410) 455-1625
My body lie but still I roam" | Will work for a man-eating neuralnet
- Hetfield (oops) | based multi-platform OS...
^
....these are the words of Myche'jae-Bel. Contort them out of context
not, lest ye perish unmercifully in a fit of Wrath and Shai-Hulud.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Stephen Jonke
Singh-Chand) wrote:
> Second, depression is not something you
> can throw money at and buy relief from. Depression is not a 'disease' you
> can get a cure for. In other words Cobain was in no more a better position
> then the next man if he suffered from depression or something similar.
You are wrong on this account, fortunately. Depression IS a
disease/sickness, and medicines can help cure it. It involves chemical
imbalances of the brain and there are medicines which help heal severe
cases of depression, restoring the proper chemical balance. Your belief is
a common misconception and an unfortunate one, because it's often believed
to be true by people who really NEED the help. They don't get help,
because they figure they'll just get better on their own and sometimes they
don't. Tragedy results.
Steve
---------------------
jo...@gsfc.nasa.gov
---------------------
Skeezix
Lamont Granquist (lam...@u.washington.edu) wrote:
: math...@academic.csubak.edu (NOWIMNOTHING) writes:
: >Suicide is such a loser way out.
: I'm getting tired of writing replies telling idiots like this to fuck off...
: Once again, i hope you never suffer from clinical depression because i doubt
: you'd be able to handle it. And i hope that no one near you ever suffers
: from clinical depression, because your advice is likely to make them worse...
: --
Let's face it, Kurt was fucked in the head.
Brilliant diagnosis, doctor.
If he was sick he should
have been institutionalized. YOu can't intellectualize his decision to
kill himself into something that we are supposed to "understand". It was
just plain dumb and that is all there is too it.
What a wonderfully simple life you must have. Some of us don't have
the luxury of being able to stick an easy label on a situation and
discount the human pain.
If he was too sick in
the head to think rationally about this he should have been thrown into a
loony bin but because he was so rich he was surrounded by sycophants who
let him self-destruct just the way all the other rock stars did, only
this time it wasn't a slow burn out of a chemical dependency but an overt
suicide.
If he were single that is one thing, but he had a child and everything.
There is no way anyone is going to convince me that he had a sane reason
to commit suicide.
What is a "sane reason to commit suicide?" Being in a lot of pain? I
don't think anyone commits suicide without being in a lot of pain.
You seem to want to discount the pain he obviously was in. I think
the whole thing is very sad, and I don't think there has to be a
villain involved.
If he wasn't getting what he wanted from music why
not pick up a different hobby?
Indeed. Clearly, that wasn't the whole problem . . . .
I can understand him being displeased
with his life but the QUALITY of his life was so much better after
becoming rich
What is "QUALITY of . . . life?"
that it is really a slap on the face for all the
blue-collar workers out there for someone to try to prove that Kurt had
such a bad quality of life that death was his only way out when he had
more money than GOD and the rest of his life to look forward to.
Apples and oranges.
There is more to life than material well-being (obviously). People
can find existence painful at any income level. If you live on the
streets of Calcutta, you may have additional immediate problems to
deal with, but you can be in severe psychic pain even without any
material problems.
It's definitely a "Doors" deathwish deal, but at least Jim lasted a few
more years than Cobain.
Must be great to be so certain about things.
There is NO reason behind it, it was a SICK act.
Must be great to feel so righteous.
If you validate him for
comitting suicide then there are a LOT of sucessful musicians in his
category who by your reasoning should blow their heads off too.
What do you mean, "validate him for committing suicide?" What would
that mean? If you mean idolizing him because of his suicide, then I
agree, that's stupid.
I must have missed the reasoning by which other musicians should
commit suicide.
Life is more precious than that.
Some people want to judge and condemn Cobain for not doing his duty.
Duty to live, be happy, raise a family, etc.
Others seem to focus more on how sad it is for everyone involved.
Come on, he must have been in pain -- you can have compassion for that
even if his suicide angers you. You don't have to hurl your judgement
at him.
An awful lot of us grow up *having* to hate ourselves in order to
survive. I know that sounds idiotic at first, but I'm convinced it's
true. Unfortunately, some of us ultimately die of it.
Did I use the word "pain" too much? Well, what does suicide make
*you* think of?
-jmc
--
God made man, but a monkey applied the glue -- Devo
Guy W. Wettstein
either. Anyway, no flames intended. It's just that I have lived in th northwest
for sixteen of and on since I was two. I'm 25 now and as far as I can tell my
friends and aquaintences here in Portland are no more prone to suicide or
alchoholism than say my friends in SF.
It's to bad people choose to kill themselves. Suicide sucks!
--
******************************************************************************
Guy W. Wettstein
gu...@mentorg.com "In the high school halls, in the shopping malls,
conform or be cast out!" Neil Peart
\ /
O O
o MENTOR GRAPHICS RULES!
V
******************************************************************************
--
alexander feygin
} >Why is it that the talented ones always have to be the ones that are f*cked
} Whoever said he was talented? I guess you are entitled to your opinion, but
This is also my opinion...and the opinion of many other people as
well. Like his music or hate it, you can't deny that he touched
a nerve and changed the face of music forever by bringing punk/
postpunk into the mainstream.
} I think Nirvana sucked. Anyway, I don't mean to piss on a man's grave (if
} in fact it is true), so I'll just leave with this though...
} ...when is Eddie Vedder's turn?
The way fate is, Vedder will probably outlive all of us and Pearl Jam
will continue to produce boring shallow music into their 50's ala
Aerosmith.
--
alexander feygin "i am the prayers of the naive
(fey...@uiuc.edu) i am the lie that you believe"--NIN
Stephen Evans - CRDH System Manager
>
>I read somewhere that suicide rates are much higher (along with
>alcoholism) in the northwestern states.
>
>Some people feel it is because of the weather.
Try Montreal, where we got about 10 inches of snow about a week ago.
>
>-Jim.
>--
> *** James Tsillas jts...@ccs.neu.edu ***
> *** Work: (508)898-2800, Home: (617)924-3908 ***
> *** "He is after me. Jim is after him." ***
> *** - Hop on Pop, Dr. Seuss ***
Margo George
>In article <mmatula....@news.acns.nwu.edu> mma...@casbah.acns.nwu.edu (Mark Matula) writes:
>>In <2o4adm$b...@jac.zko.dec.com> ow...@conslt.enet.dec.com (Steve Owen) writes:
>
>>>It's all over the news, so I guess it's true. Kurt Cobain was found dead
>>>this morning of a self-inflicted gunshot wound to the head.
>
>>>8^(
>>
>
>>Whoever said he was talented? I guess you are entitled to your opinion, but
>>in fact it is true), so I'll just leave with this though...
>>...when is Eddie Vedder's turn?
>
>
>you aren't the ones that are killing themselves.
>
> When's your turn?
Good response!!!>
Drexl
P.H. Van broekhoven <u910...@muss.cis.mcmaster.ca> wrote:
>In article <2o4ghj$b...@oak.oakland.edu> gsma...@vela.acs.oakland.edu (GSM and CCH) writes:
>
>>What a horribly trite and crass thing to say! I'm sure Kurt had problems
>>we don't even know about; attributing his suicide to "...getting
>>dumped from Lollapalooza..." is not only stupid, it's also heartless.
>
>
>...and I'd say blowing yourself out of the lives of your wife and child
>is as you say "not only stupid, it's also heartless".
> You aren't really drunk if you can lay on the floor without hanging on.
> _______________________________________________________________________
> Peter van Broekhoven u910...@muss.cis.mcmaster.ca
I'm getting really pissed at all these morons who are attacking Cobain for
comitting suicide. If these people had actually LISTENED to his lyrics they
would realize that he was a deeply troubled man. I've heard a lot of
sentiment from people claiming that he "had everything going for him, money,
fame," etc. This is crap. That people who associate money and fame with
happiness even know who Kurt Cobain was is the ultimate testiment to the music
industry's callous commercialization of the man's deepest feelings. Like
many gifted artists from Van Gogh to Coltrane to Hendrix, Cobain's vast
creative energy seemed to be derived from the exploration of the darkest
places in his soul. And like those artists his existence was destined to be
a self-destructive one.
I actually envy people who don't realize that people can have problems not
related to what's going on in the physical world around them. Their ignorance
is, in this case, truly bliss.
/ | \ "Free your mind, and your ass will follow"
| -+- |
\ | / -George Clinton
Brian Murrey
>other words, let's not cry for a guy who had the money and the support
>of the supposed "X Gen" to help him out of his downward spiral.
>Let's face it, he had at least one small child who was counting on
>him and his response was basically, "fuck you, kid. I'm outta here."
>Michael
>del...@netcom.com
No shit Michael. Bravo. You speak the truth. This guy had more succes than
most of us will ever see, he had the cash, the toys, the FAMILY and he has
pissed it all away. It just makes me shake my head and wonder what the fuck
kind of stupid pussy would go and do something like this. Wanna bet that
Cortney Love and child get screwed by the record company?
Any pussy can kill himself, but a man sticks around and deals with it.
--
George Greene
: Why is it that the talented ones always have to be the ones that are f*cked up
: in the head?
:
: -Steve Owen
I'm not trying to bash you by disagreeing, since you probably
know this by now anyway (I am replying 3 days late), but
Kurt Cobain WAS NOT fucked up in the head (at least not
until AFTER the shotgun went off). Kurt Cobain was fucked
up in the GUT. He had been living with a very bad stomach-
ache for almost 7 years, and even with all his money, he
couldn't buy a doctor who could diagnose or treat it.
All they could do was stick a label on it (a VERY bad case
of "irritable bowel syndrome") and tell him to live with
it. I think EVERYBODY who is suffering from a chronic
syndrome/disease/quality-of-life-degrading-cluster-of-symptoms
for which they can't get a MEANINGFUL diagnosis (i.e., an
explanation of the real cause, as opposed to the effects re-
described in jargon) ought to write Hillary Clinton and ask
for THAT as a health care reform.
David Dalton
S: Although Lithium being one of my favorite songs made me wonder after
S: Kurt's death. As Lithium is a drug to help cure depression.
-------------------
Lithium is used mainly to treat bipolar mood disorder (manic
depression) although it can also be used as an augmentation
drug for unipolar depression, along with an antidepressant,
and even as an augmentation drug in schizophrenia.
Given Kurt's on-the-edge creativity, I would bet that
he was bipolar type I. I have heard that MTV/Much
have talked about his illness --- did they say if he
was bipolar? A very high proportion of the top
artists, composers, poets and other creative people
throughout history have been bipolar --- see the book
"Touched By Fire" by Kay Jamison for some examples.
Regarding his suicide:
1. too-high doses of antidepressants, e.g. Prozac, especially
when combined with alcohol, have been known to worsen
suicidal thoughts --- they make you energetic/agitated
enough to carry it out.
2. while antipsychotics such as halperidol are good for
coming down from manic highs, they are no good
for depression and may induce anxious type
suicidal depression (pacing, not too lethargic).
And of course, combining prescription drugs with
alcohol and street drugs is a recipe for disaster,
especially so soon after the coma incident. Maybe
he should have gone to Asia like Shane McGowan.
I already started a short thread in
alt.support.depression on the suicide.
Does anyone know what Kurt's diagnosis was and
what drugs he was on?
and yes, I'm
bi, b'y
DRD
--
David Dalton ------------------------------ <Dal...@Geop.UBC.Ca> ------
Dept. of Geophysics & Astronomy, (604) 822-2267
2219 Main Mall, University of British Columbia fax 822-6047
Vancouver, Canada V6T 1Z4 home 733-1303
KILLIAN O BRIEN
>Any pussy can kill himself, but a man sticks around and deals with it.
look... you do not have a clue what you are talking about
when sojmeone gets into the state where they are thing of ending their
lives their whole perception of the qworld has changed from everyone
elses and are going through unbelievable anguish and mental suffering
when anyone takes their life they should be pittied and certainly not
have the above kind of lumberjack mentality blasted against them
MICHAEL WINFIELD STEVENS
>Path: saturn.wwc.edu!netnews.nwnet.net!news.uoregon.edu!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!news.mentorg.com!hpbab33.mentorg.com!guyw!guyw
>From: gu...@guyw.mentorg.com (Guy W. Wettstein)
>Newsgroups: alt.music.alternative,alt.music.nirvana
>Subject: Re: Northwest weather? Re: Kurt Cobain dead
>Date: 11 Apr 1994 22:26:50 GMT
>Organization: Mentor Graphics Corporation
>Lines: 18
>Sender: guyw@guyw (Guy W. Wettstein)
>Distribution: world
>Message-ID: <2ocira$m...@hpbab.mentorg.com>
>References: <2o4adm$b...@jac.zko.dec.com> <2o4bgm$j...@Mercury.mcs.com> <1994Apr9.0...@oz.plymouth.edu> <JTSILLA.94...@snowdon.ccs.northeastern.edu>
>Reply-To: guy_we...@mentorg.com
>NNTP-Posting-Host: guyw.wv.mentorg.com
>Uh, where are you from? I didn't know the weather was that great in the northeast
>either. Anyway, no flames intended. It's just that I have lived in th northwest
>for sixteen of and on since I was two. I'm 25 now and as far as I can tell my
>friends and aquaintences here in Portland are no more prone to suicide or
>alchoholism than say my friends in SF.
>It's to bad people choose to kill themselves. Suicide sucks!
>
beautiful slightly differently.
Michael Stevens, ste...@wwc.edu
-----------------------------------------------------------
| L i f e i s s o r r o w |
| Sorrow is caused by Desire |
| To be free of Desire is to be free of Sorrow |
| -The Buddha |
\____________________________________________/
NIRVANA Achieved
Amanda Kathryn Morgan
"being a man," it's about pain. Duh.
Zak May
> Like his music or hate it, you can't deny that he touched
> a nerve and changed the face of music forever by bringing
> punk/postpunk into the mainstream.
This is silly - punk/postpunk never *left* the mainstream.
Nirvana's commercial success didn't change a thing in the
American musical scene - it only made *us* suffer through
the endless line of "grungy" bands. Nothing good came of
it - why start rewriting history now? Nirvana was a semi-
decent band - but for bringing Pearl Jam to international
stardom they'll burn in hell forever.
Starting three days ago, BTW.
___
Zak.
MICHAEL BENEDETTI
>This is silly - punk/postpunk never *left* the mainstream.
>Nirvana's commercial success didn't change a thing in the
>American musical scene - it only made *us* suffer through
>the endless line of "grungy" bands. Nothing good came of
>it - why start rewriting history now? Nirvana was a semi-
>decent band - but for bringing Pearl Jam to international
>stardom they'll burn in hell forever.
Hello? Perhaps your brain just needs a lil jump start. Punk
never left the mainstream? Yeah, Top 40 radio was really
clogged with punks around the summer of 1983.
Nirvana may not have changed the music scene, but it sure
pushed the industry in a new direction--increased marketing
of what were up till then considered underground bands.
A big change in terms of what is available--the man on the
street finds out about new bands from record companys, and
if the Co's don't push it, it may be excellent, but he'll
never know.
Besides, In Utero is the only album I've heard from the past
couple years that's actually exciting. This counts for some-
thing, at least in my book.
Robert A.Buckley
>
>until AFTER the shotgun went off). Kurt Cobain was fucked
>up in the GUT. He had been living with a very bad stomach-
>ache for almost 7 years, and even with all his money, he
>couldn't buy a doctor who could diagnose or treat it.
>All they could do was stick a label on it (a VERY bad case
>of "irritable bowel syndrome") and tell him to live with
>it. I think EVERYBODY who is suffering from a chronic
>syndrome/disease/quality-of-life-degrading-cluster-of-symptoms
>for which they can't get a MEANINGFUL diagnosis (i.e., an
>explanation of the real cause, as opposed to the effects re-
>described in jargon) ought to write Hillary Clinton and ask
>for THAT as a health care reform.
Of course! Why didn't I think of that long ago? If a person can't
get the diagnosis they want, they should be able to sue those
evil goddam doctors!!
Yeah, that's it. We'll pass a law. If I wanna use heroin and
alcohol and sedatives 'n stuff, and if my stomach hurts TOO,
then it's obviously cruel for a goddam doctor to add injury
to insult by telling me he can't give me a diagnosis that
can be goddam fixed.
Let's start a chronic syndrome/disease/quality-of-life-degrading-
cluster-of-symptoms-for-wich-there-is-no-meaningful-diagnosis
Foundation...We'll raise lots of money and we'll buy us some
goddam doctors who know how to make diagnoses that we like
and that don't interfere with our lifestyles, and we'll have
Hillary fire all those bad old doctors, and then we'll outlaw
death and disability and those plastic chairs that hurt your
butt...it'll be great.
And if Hillary won't help us...well, I've got a shotgun and
I ain't afraid to use it.
Bob Buckley, MD
bb...@itsa.ucsf.edu
Baron Arnold
: In article <1994Apr8.2...@muss.cis.mcmaster.ca>,
Thank God there is some sence being made of all this. In the last
four days I've read more people worried about thier own vision of
'history' than anything else. Kurt's songs, Daves drumming and Krist's
bass playing will stand for as long as I am able to listen. Reguardless
of the greatness or the mediocrity anyone else proclaims. Long after all
of us are gone, long after all record distribution is packageless, long
after the self-appointed judges have gone into the dirt these songs will
move someone. Perhaps move someone to write something that someone else
will enjoy and lean on in a time of crisis.
Global observations are all fine and good, but it's the local
experience that matters.
I liked um. End of story.
Rest in peace Kurt.
No matter how they interpret what you've said.
=baron
Chris Malcolm
>All they could do was stick a label on it (a VERY bad case
>of "irritable bowel syndrome") and tell him to live with
>it. I think EVERYBODY who is suffering from a chronic
>syndrome/disease/quality-of-life-degrading-cluster-of-symptoms
>for which they can't get a MEANINGFUL diagnosis (i.e., an
>explanation of the real cause, as opposed to the effects re-
>described in jargon) ought to write Hillary Clinton and ask
>for THAT as a health care reform.
As it happens, irritable bowel syndrome is one of many for which the
causes and mechanisms are not yet properly known. That's why you have
to live with it.
What do you expect Hillary Clinton to be able to do about this?
--
Chris Malcolm c...@uk.ac.ed.aifh +44 (0)31 650 3085
Department of Artificial Intelligence, Edinburgh University
5 Forrest Hill, Edinburgh, EH1 2QL, UK DoD #205
"The mind reigns, but does not govern" -- Paul Valery
Zak May
> Yeah, Top 40 radio was really clogged with punks around the summer of 1983.
Combat Rock? Synchronicity? Spring Session M? All of these were Top 10 hits.
Or does punk/postpunk have to be awful-sounding to be authentic? If there was
a singer that sounded more like Corey Hart than Corey Hart, it was Kurt Cobain.
> A big change in terms of what is available--the man on the street finds out
> about new bands from record companys, and if the Co's don't push it, it may
> be excellent, but he'll never know.
What did *you* find this way? Why so theoretical? What Seattle band did
you discover because of Nirvana? What punk band did you discover because
of Nirvana? Why talking in these *industry* terms - who gives a fuck for
the damn industry?
> Besides, In Utero is the only album I've heard from the past
> couple years that's actually exciting. This counts for some-
> thing, at least in my book.
To me The Orb was much more exciting, actually. "In Utero" simply
sucked. Where do you do your record shopping, K-mart or Wal-mart?
___
Zak.
Janet Dowd
Geeee, Bob. Having a bad hair day?
Dean Hegazi
>Sorry Kurt.
For *him* commiting suicide?
>Wish we could have helped you.
No you couldn't, you're just another worthless fan...
--
Zikzak public access UNIX, Melbourne, Australia.
George Greene
In article <2ofsd8$t...@itsa.ucsf.edu> bb...@itsa.ucsf.edu
(Bob Buckley,MD) writes:
[ replying to me, after I said that one of Cobain's reasons
was that he had really bad stomach pains, and that some doctor
should've been able to figure out WHY and TREAT them ]
: Of course! Why didn't I think of that long ago? If
: a person can't get the diagnosis they want, they
: should be able to sue those evil goddam doctors!!
Cut this strawman crap.
I did NOT say that. Cobain couldn't get a diagnosis PERIOD.
Labeling something a syndrome is not a diagnosis.
: Yeah, that's it. We'll pass a law. If I wanna use heroin and
: alcohol and sedatives 'n stuff, and if my stomach hurts TOO,
: then it's obviously cruel for a goddam doctor to add injury
: to insult by telling me he can't give me a diagnosis that
: can be goddam fixed.
This is backwards. The man's stomach didn't hurt because of his
drug use. He started using drugs for the usual reasons, but had
trouble quitting because he needed relief from the stomach pain.
He was using drugs at least partly because his stomach hurt -- NOT
the other way around, as you seem to be trying to imply. He was IN
REHAB and trying to finish getting OFF drugs (he had already done a
good job of getting off most of them) when he decided to kill
himself.
: Let's start a chronic syndrome/disease/quality-of-life-degrading-
: cluster-of-symptoms-for-wich-there-is-no-meaningful-diagnosis
: Foundation...
Are you SURE that there is no meaningful diagnosis for what ailed
Kurt Cobain (gastrically, not psychologically)? I really wish I
had known the relevant people well enough to recommend something
before the cremation. What I would've recommended was that, if
they couldn't study him hard enough and invasively enough and
thoroughly enough to figure out what was wrong with his stomach
while he was alive, MAYBE they could've done a BETTER job after he
was DEAD. Seriously, from a purely medical standpoint, I think the
cadaver should've been studied by gastroenterologists specializing
in the syndrome.
: We'll raise lots of money and we'll buy us some
: goddam doctors who know how to make diagnoses that we like
: and that don't interfere with our lifestyles,
The man had problems with his lifestyle, but they were not
the same as his problems with his gastroenterologist. If
there was any sort of causal arrow between the two at all, then
it was in the opposite direction from the one you are implying.
: And if Hillary won't help us...well, I've got a shotgun and
: I ain't afraid to use it.
Some people have medical degrees, and ARE afraid to use them.
They just parrot pablum and conventional wisdom instead of
trying to figure out what is really going on, or risk guessing
wrong.
George Greene
>other words, let's not cry for a guy who had the money and the support
>of the supposed "X Gen" to help him out of his downward spiral.
>Let's face it, he had at least one small child who was counting on
>him and his response was basically, "fuck you, kid. I'm outta here."
>Michael
>del...@netcom.com
In article <brian.766119813@galena> br...@galena.use.com (Brian Murrey) writes:
: No shit Michael. Bravo. You speak the truth. This guy had more succes than
: most of us will ever see, he had the cash, the toys, the FAMILY and he has
: pissed it all away. It just makes me shake my head and wonder what the fuck
: kind of stupid pussy would go and do something like this. Wanna bet that
: Cortney Love and child get screwed by the record company?
: Any pussy can kill himself, but a man sticks around and deals with it.
I just wanted to disagree with the last line. Men kill themselves.
Men do NOT "deal with it." MEN say DEATH before DISHONOR. It may
be STUPID, but it's a MAN thing. Any pussy can just trundle on,
beaten, quietly desperate, inauthentic, conforming, getting by. A
MAN takes a stand. It's precisely because he had guts enough to
GIVE UP all that all that that we KNOW he had something VERY
special. I don't know whether this special thing is a good thing
or a bad thing (his widow seems quite sure that it's a bad thing),
but I do know that, at least in THIS sick culture, even if if
nowhere else, whatEVER this thing is, it is a more associated with
having balls than with having (or being) a pussy.
Tom Coleman
Guy W. Wettstein <guy_we...@mentorg.com> wrote:
>Anyway, no flames intended. It's just that I have lived in th northwest
>for sixteen of and on since I was two. I'm 25 now and as far as I can tell my
>friends and aquaintences here in Portland are no more prone to suicide or
>alchoholism than say my friends in SF.
>It's to bad people choose to kill themselves. Suicide sucks!
>
No flame intended to you either. However, statistics do show show a
higher rate of depression and suicide in Seattle and Portland than in
other parts of the country. ALso suicide rates are lower in regions
that have a lot of sun (Arizona and New Mexico). The most common
accepted theory in psychiatry is that the lack of sunlight can affect
some peoples mood and thus make them more prone to suicide.
I do NOT believe this can be the reason attributed to the suicide of
Kurt Cobain. He was obviously in a lot of pain. Environmental factor
play only a very small part in a persons depression.
I live here in Portland as well, and wouldn't live anywhere else. I
believe that the Pacific Northwest is the most beautiful region in the
US.
Tom
#include <std.disclaimer>
--
cet...@teleport.com Public Access User --- Not affiliated with TECHbooks
William Nevins Weaver
: ma...@phakt.usc.edu (Mark Edward Mauer) writes:
: >Sorry Kurt.
: For *him* commiting suicide?
: >Wish we could have helped you.
: No you couldn't, you're just another worthless fan...
and i guess that makes you a worthless non-fan.
: --
Sean Ian Malone
> Methinks the good doctor doth protest too much.
> In article <2ofsd8$t...@itsa.ucsf.edu> bb...@itsa.ucsf.edu
> (Bob Buckley,MD) writes:
>
> Cut this strawman crap.
> I did NOT say that. Cobain couldn't get a diagnosis PERIOD.
> Labeling something a syndrome is not a diagnosis.
That is where you are wrong. Isn't Down's Syndrome a diagnosis?
How about Reye's Syndrome? A syndrome is a collection of
signs/symptoms stemming from a probable single etiology.
Irritable Bowel Syndrome IS a diagnosis. Just because we don"t
always know how to CURE a disease does NOT mean we can't
diagnose it. Anyway, Cobain had Chronic Gastritis, a DEFINITE
diagnosis, probably stemming from alcohol use/abuse.
>
> Are you SURE that there is no meaningful diagnosis for what ailed
> Kurt Cobain (gastrically, not psychologically)? I really wish I
> had known the relevant people well enough to recommend something
> before the cremation. What I would've recommended was that, if
> they couldn't study him hard enough and invasively enough and
> thoroughly enough to figure out what was wrong with his stomach
> while he was alive, MAYBE they could've done a BETTER job after he
> was DEAD. Seriously, from a purely medical standpoint, I think the
> cadaver should've been studied by gastroenterologists specializing
> in the syndrome.
A pathologist must have written consent from family members to
perform an autopsy (unless foul play is supected) and Mrs. Love
did not give it.
>
> : And if Hillary won't help us...well, I've got a shotgun and
> : I ain't afraid to use it.
>
> Some people have medical degrees, and ARE afraid to use them.
> They just parrot pablum and conventional wisdom instead of
> trying to figure out what is really going on, or risk guessing
> wrong.
I'll tell you why we are afraid to use them. Because too many
people out there think we ARE God (see quote in sig.). We
AREN'T!! We know much about the inner workings of the body but
there is so much we don't know. Yet we go through 6 years of
HELL, going $100,000 in debt, just so people can sue us if we
DON'T know everything. People are in WAY to big of a hurry to
blame doctors for all of there problems. Granted, there are
some very poor doctors around. But the good ones are scared
shitless to so much as blink the wrong way because we might end
up in litigation (which sounds alittle like what you might want
to happen to Cobain's physician).
--
* Sean Malone *
* University of Virginia * I don't have a God complex ...
* School of Medicine - SMDII * I AM GOD - Malice
* si...@galen.med.virginia.edu * U V A M D 2 B
Jeffrey Ray Healey
killed himself, this is it!!!:
HIS LIFE HAD THE SAME QUALITY AS HIS MUSIC!
Who could blame him?
Now lets get rid of this ridiculous newsgroup and give something
artistic, creative, melodious, and intellectual a try: DREAM THEATER.
Later...
David Dalton
I only saw the ending part of a special for Kurt on Much, so I don't know
if they said anything about his illness. Although it's amazing how
somebody can *look* so happy, and still be *so* depressed. What is
bipolar depression?
------------------
I said bipolar mood disorder, not bipolar depression.
It is a mood disorder characterized by a mood cycle
with highs and lows, similar to those experienced by
everybody but more intense or longer. There are
several different types of bipolar disorder, and
the mood changes can be rapid or slow, frequent
or rare, intense or mild. It used to be known
as manic depression but there is a bad stigma
associated with that term, when people hear it
they think of the worst case raving maniacs.
Some people have little problem with their
lows and highs getting out of control and are
known as cyclothymic. Others can mask it
until it gets too bad. Some have problems
with addictions, sexual indiscretions,
financial indiscretions, whereas others
can divert their manic energy into poetry,
art, music or other good stuff.
The disorder is related to things such as
Attention Deficit Disorder (ADD),
Borderline Personality Disorder (BPD),
and related disorders, as well as unipolar
depression. You can be daignosed for a
while as unipolar and then have a bad
high (manic episode) or mild high (hypomanic
episode) and be reclassed as bipolar.
Sometimes bipolar behaviour happens
for a while before a diagnosis is
made. Often people have their
first bad episode in their mid-late
twenties but can then in retrospective
identify earlier milder incidents.
A very high percentage of leading edge
poets and artists are bipolar, compared
to the general population. It is even
more likely that top poets have bipolar
disorder in a close relative.
Many of todays leading artists, poets, musicians,
actors, and even scientists and financiers
have come out publicly as bipolar. I had a
list but have misplaced it. Many rock musicians
with addictive or erratic behaviour and on-the-edge
creativity may really be bipolar, or candidates
for having an episode triggered. For more
info see alt.support.depression or e-mail me
for mailing list addresses.
Here are some famous names from history
who suffered from bipolar or unipolar
mood disorder or cyclothymia. (A subset of the
lists in the book "Touched By Fire" by K. Jamison, 1993).
This is mostly old, few names from the rock era
but I can think of a few who I suspect are/were bipolar.
WRITERS:
Hans Christian Andersen
Honore de Balzac
William Faulkner (H)
F. Scott Fitzgerald (H)
Kenneth Graham
Graham Greene
Ernest Hemingway (H, S)
Hermann Hesse (H, SA)
Henrik Ibsen
Henry James
Charles Lamb (H)
Malcolm Lowry (H, S)
Samuel Clemens (Mark Twain)
Joseph Conrad (SA)
Charles Dickens
Isak Dinesen (SA)
Ralph Waldo Emerson
Herman Melville
Eugene O'Neill (H, SA)
Francis Parkman
Mary Shelley
Robert Louis Stevenson
Leo Tolstoy
Virginia Woolf (H, S)
Emile Zola
COMPOSERS:
Hector Berlioz (SA)
Edward Elgar
George Frederic Handel
Gustav HOlst
Charles Ives
Otto Klemperer (H)
Gustav Mahler
Sergey Rachmaninoff
Giocchino Rossini
Robert Schumann (H, SA)
Alexander Scriagbin
Peter Tchaikovsky
Hugo Wolf (H, SA)
Bernd Alois Zimmerman (S)
NONCLASSICAL COMPOSERS AND MUSICIANS:
Irving Berlin (H)
Noel Coward
Stephen Foster
Charles Mingus (H)
Charles Parker (H, SA)
Cole Porter (H)
Bud Powell (H)
and lots more
POETS:
Charles Baudelaire (SA)
Thomas Lovell Beddoes (S)
William Blake
Robert Burns
George Gordon, Lord Byron
Harley Coleridge
Samuel Taylor Coleridge
William Cowper (H, SA)
Emily Dickinson
T.S. Eliot (H)
Oliver Goldsmith
Victor Hugo
Samuel Johnson
John Keats
James Russell Lowell
Robert Lowell (H)
Edna St. Vincent Millay (H)
Boris Pasternak (H)
Cesare Pavese (S)
Sylvia Plath (H, S)
Edgar Allan Poe (SA)
Ezra Pound (H)
Alexander Pushkin
Theodore Roethke (H)
Percy Bysshe Shelley (SA)
Alfred, Lord tennyson
Dylan Thomas
Walt Whitman
and lots more
ARTISTS:
Paul Gauguin (SA)
Vincent van Gogh (H, S)
Edward Lear
Michelangelo
Adolphe Monticelli
Edvard Meunch (H) [ --- did that famous picture of the distorted
figure with hands over ears, screaming -- ji]
Georgia O'Keeffe (H)
Jackson Pollock (H)
George Romney
Dante Gabriel Rossetti (SA)
Those with at least
ONE SERIOUSLY AFFECTED FIRST-DEGREE RELATIVE (often there were
several) include:
Hans Christian Andersen
Charlotte and Emily Bronte
Samuel Clemens
Isak Dinesen
Ralph Waldo Emerson
Robert Frost
Johann Wolfgang Goethe
Hermann Hesse
Charles Lamb
Edvard Meunch
Sylvia Plath
Jackson POllock
cole Porter
Alexander Scriabin
Robert Louis Stevenson
Peter Tchaikovsky
Walt Whitman
Emile Zola
some scientists/others not on the above lists
who have had mental health problems:
---------------------
Buzz Aldrin, astronaut
Ingmar Bergman, film maker
Boltzmannnn, scientist, (Kretschmer cyclothymic)
Georg Cantor, mathematician
Dick Cavett, TV personality
Agatha Christie, mystery writer
Rosemary Clooney, singer
Copernicus, scientist (Kretschmer schizothymic)
Frances Ford Coppola, director
Noel Coward, musician
Kitty Dukakis, Massachusetts first lady
Patty Duke, actress
Michael Farady, physicist
Sigmund Freud, physician
Kurt Godel, 1906- 1978, mathematician
Howard Hughes, entrepreneur
Kepler, scientist (Kretschmer schizothymic)
Leibniz, scientist (Kretschmer schizothymic)
Vivian Leigh, actress
Marilyn Monroe, actress
Isaac Newton, scientist
Murray Pezim, entrepreneur
Ted Turner, entrepreneur
Hope this wasn't too long. If you follow up,
try to direct the subject back to nirvana.
By the way, when you achieve nirvana, it is
hell, because there is nowhere left to go,
nothing left to learn. You go from infinity
to zero in no time, from god to dogshit.
But it is better to be dogshit than god.
Joel Stanley
>As it happens, irritable bowel syndrome is one of many for which the
>causes and mechanisms are not yet properly known. That's why you have
>to live with it.
Agreed. Let us (the scientists) work on it, and while you're waiting,
relax on the sofa.
>What do you expect Hillary Clinton to be able to do about this?
Well, she's an obvious goddess; I wouldn't be surprised to see a photo of
her walking on the Reflecting Pool someday. She's done so much already,
why can't she take care of IBS?
Joel Stanley
b...@tiamat.umd.umich.edu
Inorganic Chemistry at the University of Michigan -- Buckyballs Ho!
Standard disclaimers...Sheesh!
Camilla Cracchiolo
I'm kind of surprised that no one has yet brought up the fact that
irritable bowel syndrome and biochemical depression are illnesses
that seem to be related in some way that we don't really understand
very well. Looking at the fact that Cobain had 2 uncles who also
committed suicide, it seems likely that problems with brain chemistry
runs in his family. He and his family have my sympathy...it's
very difficult to have these kinds of problems, and some people
don't respond to any medication they try.
--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Camilla Cracchiolo cam...@netcom.com
Shrine of the Cybernetic Madonna BBS 213-766-1356
"The BBS for the information addict!"
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Colin J Bykowy
: decided to follow up. The way I see it, Kurt killed himself. If
: somebody is going to make fun of it, then they should keep it to
: themselves, as they have *DEEP* problems.... much deeper and bigger than
: Kurt's. They are probably anti-social house rats too. A few of the
: people I am friends with cracked a few jokes about Kurt's death too.
: When I told a friend that Kurt killed himself, he resonponded with, "Good
: Riddence... I won't have to listen to that crap anymore". I felt like
: telling him to screw himself. I don't care if somebody doesn't like some
: other type of music, or call it "crap"... but thinking it's a good thing
: because somebody else killed themselves? The person who thinks that
: needs help.
I don't much criticize Cobain himself. It's the whiners that go around
loving him for it. The last thing anybody needs is for people to start
making stamps with his face on them or claiming to have seen him at the
all-nite grocery. Admire him for his music, not his suicide.
Killing yourself is just not a cool thing to do.
James "0 classes and 6 exams to a B.E. and B.Sc." Bykowy
5th yr EE/CS at University of Saskatchewan
cjb...@engr.usask.ca
Colin J Bykowy
: Men do NOT "deal with it." MEN say DEATH before DISHONOR. It may
: be STUPID, but it's a MAN thing. Any pussy can just trundle on,
: beaten, quietly desperate, inauthentic, conforming, getting by. A
: MAN takes a stand. It's precisely because he had guts enough to
: GIVE UP all that all that that we KNOW he had something VERY
: special. I don't know whether this special thing is a good thing
: or a bad thing (his widow seems quite sure that it's a bad thing),
: but I do know that, at least in THIS sick culture, even if if
: nowhere else, whatEVER this thing is, it is a more associated with
: having balls than with having (or being) a pussy.
Men deal with it. Real people deal with it. "a man takes a stand"?
What kind of a stand is killing yourself? Where are getting anybody?
What good is it doing anybody? Except maybe your record sales.
James "0 clases and 6 exams to a B.E. and B.Sc" Bykowy
Amy Fong
Shazri Azizan <sha...@cs.mun.ca> wrote:
>dal...@explo.Geop.UBC.CA (David Dalton) writes:
>
>>In article <1994Apr10....@cs.mun.ca> sha...@cs.mun.ca (Shazri Azizan) writes:
>>S: Although Lithium being one of my favorite songs made me wonder after
>>S: Kurt's death. As Lithium is a drug to help cure depression.
>>-------------------
>>Lithium is used mainly to treat bipolar mood disorder (manic
>>depression) although it can also be used as an augmentation
>>drug for unipolar depression, along with an antidepressant,
>>and even as an augmentation drug in schizophrenia.
>
>>Given Kurt's on-the-edge creativity, I would bet that
>>he was bipolar type I. I have heard that MTV/Much
>>have talked about his illness --- did they say if he
>>was bipolar? A very high proportion of the top
>>artists, composers, poets and other creative people
>>throughout history have been bipolar --- see the book
>>"Touched By Fire" by Kay Jamison for some examples.
>
>if they said anything about his illness. Although it's amazing how
>somebody can *look* so happy, and still be *so* depressed. What is
>bipolar depression?
Bipolar alright. I saw much music talk about it the Saturday after he
presumably died.
Yo David, you're not the only bi here now. ;)
--
Amy Fong af...@cantor.math.uwaterloo.ca Phone: (416)756-0748
I think I'll bounce over the the next article now
*bounce* *bounce* *bounce* ...
Bronis Vidugiris
)In article <brian.766119813@galena> br...@galena.use.com (Brian Murrey) writes:
) : Any pussy can kill himself, but a man sticks around and deals with it.
)
)I just wanted to disagree with the last line. Men kill themselves.
)Men do NOT "deal with it." MEN say DEATH before DISHONOR. It may
)be STUPID, but it's a MAN thing.
Well, _some_ men, anyway. There is a growing 'wuss/pussy' movement that
suggests that perhaps 'MEN' don't have to do these things anymore. I
think it's an idea whose time has arrived!
Actually, I suspect that the suicide being talked about is more likely to be
the result of depression or some other sort of mental illness than some
bizarre concept of 'manliness'. Oh well.
[I also suspect that the tradtional masculine roles are not _quite_ as
screwed up as this 'DEATH before DISHONOR' talk suggests, either, BTW,
though sometimes they do get to be rather strange.]
--
"The power of this battlestation is _insignificant_ when compared with
the power of the Farce." - D. Vader.
Guy W. Wettstein
without defamating each others character.
Thanks Tom
Guy
--
******************************************************************************
Guy W. Wettstein
gu...@mentorg.com "In the high school halls, in the shopping malls,
conform or be cast out!" Neil Peart
\ /
O O
o MENTOR GRAPHICS RULES!
V
******************************************************************************
--
Istvan Marko
Jesus, don't you people have anything better to do than drag the life of some
sorry sod out and discuss it?
As to calling people by the first name whom one does not know, I think it
is offensive.....
David Pease
Oh you think so do you Istvan?
Well so do I. I know when I call someone by their first name when I don't
know them I am usually trying to say something like "what the hell's your
problem posting drivel like this in the first place?"
Do you ever feel like doing that Istvan?
Regards
(don't call me) Dave
dave
>Regards
Listen guys we are here to discuss Kurt's suicide because his music was so
bad. Not just bicker amoungst ourselves. It really is to bad he is dead.
I mean, no one else sounded nearly as shitty as he.
Dano Paquette
>I read somewhere that suicide rates are much higher (along with
>alcoholism) in the northwestern states.
>Some people feel it is because of the weather.
I love the weather in Seattle, it's part of the reason I moved here.
I'll take rain over 15 snowstorms any time.
Dan-o, who is now 3000 miles away from those insufferably humid New
Hampshire summers.
Kevin Clark
I am reading 'Listening to Prozac' by Kramer and were he talks about the
earily days in the development of anti-deppression that the opiates were
looked at due to their ability to help with depression.
I was wondering if anyone knew what effexts the heroine had on Cobians
depression. Was it an attempt at self-medication? Also does anyone know
if he had sought treatment for his depression? In this day of SSRIs, MAOIs
and the tricylics it is a shame whenever anyone does not get treatment when
there are so many good treatments.
The problem is that there is a HUGE misunderstanding of mental disorders in
this country. People balme the ill person for their illness, often ignoring
the data showing that alot of these illnesses are biological in orgin.
I tried to explain to friends and family that clinical deprresion is probably
due in a large part to chemical imbalances of the neurotransmitters (serotonin
in particular). I told them about how this can be effectively treated with the
above meds. I likened it to insulin for diabetics.
All they could say is that we should not be messing with the brain and that
drugs were NO answer. They had totally missed that these drugs put everything
in BALANCE!
I'm afraid until we address the reality of mental illness in the US that we
will continue to have more suicides because people do not seek help.
Kevin Clark
kcl...@seer.gentoo.com
Camilla Cracchiolo
: I was wondering if anyone knew what effexts the heroine had on Cobians
: depression. Was it an attempt at self-medication? Also does anyone know
: if he had sought treatment for his depression? In this day of SSRIs, MAOIs
: and the tricylics it is a shame whenever anyone does not get treatment when
: there are so many good treatments.
I have the impression from some of the things I've read about Cobain
that he was one of those unfortunate people who do not respond to
treatment with antidepressants. The explanation I've heard for
this is: antidepressants work by preventing neurotransmitters from being
reabsorbed back into nervous tissue. In other words, they inhibit
a particular enzyme involved in this process. But for them to
work, you have to be making enough serotonin to begin with. There
are some people who just don't make enough for this process to
work. (Having said this, I have to say that I'm not certain
about this information. I'm also not sure that it's anything
more than a theory, or that anyone really understands why some
people just don't respond to anti-depressants.Perhaps some doctor
or someone more up on neurochemistry would like to jump in here
and either confirm or refute this.)
As to his heroin addiction, we really don't know why some people
become heroin addicts. We can't assume that it's the same
reason for everyone. What I've read is that Cobain had
irritable bowel syndrome, which certainly will respond to
treatment with opiates. (Paregoric, which is essentially
a 'tincture of opium' was one of the older treatments for
it.) And Courtney Love made a statement about some doctor
telling Cobain that he lacked certain endorphins, which
may have some bearing on his addiction. But I don't know
exactly what that statement was based on. It does look
like Kurt Cobain got a real rotten deal, both in his brain
chemistry and his upbringing, which looks pretty unstable
from what I've read. It's very hard for folks to fight their
brain chemistry, that's for sure.
: The problem is that there is a HUGE misunderstanding of mental disorders in
: this country. People balme the ill person for their illness, often ignoring
: the data showing that alot of these illnesses are biological in orgin.
This is both very true and very distressing. And it doesn't only
apply to things classified as mental illness. Try explaining
learning disabilities or taking amphetamines for attention deficit
disorder to some of these folks sometimes. There's a lot of prejudice
about taking any kind of 'brain' drugs, as though all of them will
get you high, or else like it's some kind of moral failure if you
can't just 'rise above it' and 'stop whining'.
His wife and kid definitely have my sympathy.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Camilla Cracchiolo, RN cam...@netcom.com Los Angeles, CA
Michael Covington
>[...] It does look
>like Kurt Cobain got a real rotten deal, both in his brain
>chemistry and his upbringing, which looks pretty unstable
>from what I've read. It's very hard for folks to fight their
>brain chemistry, that's for sure.
There certainly is a sad situation of "no direction home" in such
cases -- i.e., such a person's brain does not work properly no matter
what he does to it. I am reminded of a friend of mine, severely
epileptic, who tried a lot of drugs and eventually killed himself.
The point was, in his situation, "going drug-free" was not an option --
he had to take various strong depressants to prevent seizures, and he
didn't like what they did to him.
--
< Michael A. Covington, Assc Rsch Scientist, Artificial Intelligence Programs >
< The University of Georgia, Athens, GA 30602-7415 USA mcov...@ai.uga.edu >
< Unless specifically indicated, I am not speaking for the University. > <><
For information about any U.Ga. graduate program, email gra...@uga.cc.uga.edu.
Joe Peterson
: Jesus, don't you people have anything better to do than drag the life of some
^
: sorry sod out and discuss it?
: As to calling people by the first name whom one does not know, I think it
: is offensive.....
That's Mr. Christ to you.
Joe
Rebecca Drayer
>apply to things classified as mental illness. Try explaining
>learning disabilities or taking amphetamines for attention deficit
>disorder to some of these folks sometimes. There's a lot of prejudice
>about taking any kind of 'brain' drugs, as though all of them will
>get you high, or else like it's some kind of moral failure if you
>can't just 'rise above it' and 'stop whining'.
It's so true. But when people get diagnosed with a brain TUMOR, all of a
sudden the picture changes. Then, the illness is seen as...gasp,
biological! It's no longer "all in your head." (No pun intended.) And
yet, the psychiatric disorders are just as much a product of biology gone
bad.
******************************************************************************
Rebecca A. Drayer, EMT-A | dra...@minerva.cis.yale.edu
(a.k.a Organic Lass of the LNH) | Silliman College, Yale University
"What the hell is a vascular surgeon?"
"Someone who makes more money than you do."
- The Fugitive
******************************************************************************
Rebecca Drayer
>In article <camillaC...@netcom.com> cam...@netcom.com (Camilla Cracchiolo) writes:
>>
>>This is both very true and very distressing. And it doesn't only
>>apply to things classified as mental illness. Try explaining
>>learning disabilities or taking amphetamines for attention deficit
>>disorder to some of these folks sometimes. There's a lot of prejudice
>>about taking any kind of 'brain' drugs, as though all of them will
>>get you high, or else like it's some kind of moral failure if you
>>can't just 'rise above it' and 'stop whining'.
>
>It's so true. But when people get diagnosed with a brain TUMOR, all of a
>sudden the picture changes. Then, the illness is seen as...gasp,
>biological! It's no longer "all in your head." (No pun intended.) And
>yet, the psychiatric disorders are just as much a product of biology gone
>bad.
I hate to follow up to my own article, but I posted it before reading all
the Scientology crap about psychiatrists. It just goes to prove my point
that mental illness gets a bum rap.
Oliver Dodyk
> Sorry Kurt.
officialMX
v1np1re
this aged like fine dog shit