A HISTORY OF POP

Simon Clarke

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Aug 31, 1996, 3:00:00 AM8/31/96

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A BRIEF HISTORY OF POP

It is generally acknowledged that rock and roll began with the
black people of America, stretching back to their African origins.
Several accounts of eighteenth century adventurers indicate that
'I Can't Get No Satisfaction' was in fact a Zulu tribal anthem.
After briefly acknowledging this fact of the origin of pop,
most histories thereafter ignore it and get on to Elvis.
And so will this one.

The first rock and roll star was a white boy from Southern U.S.
called Elvis. He made some great records and was rather
quite popular. Almost single-handedly, he put sex into music
and it has remained there ever since. In fact sex is probably
the defining feature of pop, since if you took the sex out of
rock and roll, it wouldn't be rock and roll. Elvis is just
about all America has ever contributed to pop. That's it.
One sexy white boy who stole music from black people.
From here on, it was almost all Britain.

Four cheeky, chirpy, fun-loving mop-tops conquered the world and
everybody loved them. They were bigger than Jesus Christ.
Apparently they defined a generation. I don't knowmuch about
that, but I do know they left behind some jolly good records.
One of these, 'Hey Jude', is unquestionably the finest song ever
recorded. The Rolling Stones were a lot uglier but somehow sexier.
The Kinks didn't have the success of either but were cooler than
both. The Who smashed their instruments on stage, something that
was considered pretty wild and crazy back in those days. No
Americans did anything of note in the sixties. None.

Well, maybe a few. Bob Dylan was a man with things on his mind.
He composed songs about Really Serious And Important Things
such as . . . ummm . . . well . . . actually, what important
things did Dylan say? Jimi Hendrix was another man with things
on his mind, but these things were of a chemical variety.

The next big band to come along were Led Zeppelin. Nobody ever
admits it now, but they were actually quite good. Unfortunately
they inspired a lot of other bands, generically known as
'progressive rock', who made the mistake of thinking that if they
played their instruments better and composed songs of greater
complexity, pop music would be better. They obviously did not
know much about pop music. Abba, on the other hand, did. They
knew so much about it they effortlessly churned out a string of
hit tunes.

Punks also realised that less is more. The Sex Pistols played
fast, catchy, three-minute pop tunes and were bloody brilliant.
They also did it with attitude, something that was distinctly
lacking previously. The Pistols hated the music establishment,
corporate greed, and all the old bands who never went away and
never did anything new. They recently reformed for a lucrative
reunion tour. The Clash also started with a fierce attitude, but
were to transform into something resembling a marshmallow eight
years later. At a point where their music was becoming lighter
yet still retained some edge, they made 'London Calling', an album
so good that it is probably the best ever.

America? America in the seventies was unable to find anything new,
so gave us Elvis again. But it was a different Elvis. Much different.

Then came The Great Depression of Pop Music. Times were tough.
Talent was hard to come by. Good music was so thin on the ground
that respectable people were heard saying things like "Style
Council have got some quite good songs actually". Bands in the
eighties focused their attention on their hair rather than their
music. The oasis in this desert were The Smiths who mixed
irresistible melodies with witty and intelligent lyrics. It's
probably no coincidence that the city they came from (which was
also the origin of the only other decent band at the time - New
Order) was to be the city that would end the Depression. Manchester.

From Manchester They Came. The Stone Roses. Happy Mondays.
Inspiral Carpets. Soup Dragons. The Farm. Okay, in hindsight
they were all crap except for the Roses. But at the time they
seemed a gift from God. The Roses put out a staggeringly good
first album and then mysteriously and coolly disappeared for
five years to return with a just as brilliant second, which
everybody predictably hated. The Manchester scene was probably more
important for its influence on what came later rather than the
actual bands. The infusion of dance and rap into pop music
would define the next decade.

America finally got with the programme with Nirvana and Smashing
Pumpkins. Their songs are about how much they hate themselves.
In fact, it is interesting that most of the songs by America's
best and most popular new bands such as those two and Hole seem
to have a theme of self-hatred. Some would argue that this is
indicative evidence of a deep flaw in the contemporary American
psyche engendered by an increasingly complex, commercialised,
and alienating societal structure. But it's probably just that
the song-writers are fucked up.

Britain continued its run of form with a string of great bands
such as Suede, Manic Street Preachers, Blur, and Pulp. Finally
there came All-Conquering Oasis. Blessed with a singer
who was everyone's favourite singers all rolled into one and a
song-writer who, well, wrote good songs, it was clear to smart
cookies like me, if it wasn't to others, that these guys were
going to be really huge. With their second album, All-Conquering
Oasis cracked America in 1996. They then played a blinder of a
gig in Auckland of that year before going on to sell more records
than the four mop-tops and the Rolling Stones combined. Next,
they won for England the 1998 soccer World Cup. Then they
decided to become really big.

Thus ends this brief history of rock and roll music. What has
been given here is an unopinionated, straightforward account
of the facts which leaves the reader to draw his or her own
general conclusions about this unique art form.

Ghost Face Killer

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Aug 31, 1996, 3:00:00 AM8/31/96

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The first rock and roll star was a white boy from Southern U.S.
called Elvis. He made some great records and was rather
quite popular. Almost single-handedly, he put sex into music
and it has remained there ever since. In fact sex is probably
the defining feature of pop, since if you took the sex out of
rock and roll, it wouldn't be rock and roll. Elvis is just
about all America has ever contributed to pop. That's it.
One sexy white boy who stole music from black people.
From here on, it was almost all Britain.

Well actually Elvis did not single handedly put sex into rock and roll,
and he sure as hell didn't invent rock and roll. Elvis only popularized
rock and roll, thats it. Rock was around long before elvis. People
have been playing guitars for centuries, and using beats along to it.
Sex was around along time ago. Alot of it came from the whorehouses and
shit that rag time music used to be played in, and rag time mixed with
blues and other stuff was the first real begining of rock and roll. It
slowly got more and more crazy until people like jerry lee lewis showed
up, and then the beatles, then the 60's (Jim Hendrix, Jim Morrison,
etc), then Stuff like kiss, ac/dc, queen, and disco records were coming
out, and then that wen't into the 80's hard rock, which quickly side
streamed into death metal. Then disco developed into the 80's keboard
music/soft rap/and early techno. Soon Metalica came around,and Slayer
and stuff, and that was where metal came from. Rap exploded during the
late 80's/early 90's, and it was everywhere. Shortly after, the seattle
scene emerged. The rap scene stayed around for a few years, and slowly
developed into hip hop just recently, and the seattle scene is still
slightly around, but basicly dead. There is history summed up in one
paragraph.

PS: any flames will be tossed immediately, so don't bother.

tagyerit

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Aug 31, 1996, 3:00:00 AM8/31/96

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Except for missing the Little Richard connection, I found Simon's piece
quite accurate. Well I would change a few names of people and countries,
but why quibble...
Rich
--
<<>>><><><<<>>><><><<<>>><><><<<>>><><><<<>>
TagYerit & Wabbit Wecordings P.O. Box 0823 Amherst,Ma. 01004-0823
http://www.tagyerit.com &&&& ri...@tagyerit.com

"....full of the pure joy of words and music" Guitar Player October,1996
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Adnan

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Aug 31, 1996, 3:00:00 AM8/31/96

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In article <509hhn$5...@news.ios.com>, a8...@village.ios.com wrote:

>The first rock and roll star was a white boy from Southern U.S.
>called Elvis. He made some great records and was rather

>PS: any flames will be tossed immediately, so don't bother.

Your going to need to do alot more research into music history
if you think that Elvis was the FIRST Rock 'n Roll Star.

--
PhAtAl ErRoR - pha...@thenet.co.uk
"If people behaved like governments, you'd call the cops." -- Kelvin Throop

Alexander Casti

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Aug 31, 1996, 3:00:00 AM8/31/96

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I'll give you many reasons why one should quibble. The first
is that you and Simon are fools. Trying to whip up the old
UK vs. USA chauvinism up again, eh? Okay...I'm not above it!
I don't mind it at all, especially when it's so simple to destroy
the puny arguments of deluded Brits.
Here are a few of the many Americans that the Brits took their
cues from:

Elvis Presley ---> Beatles
Carl Perkins
Buddy Holly
The Everly Brothers
Beach Boys ---> psychedelic Beatles
Chuck Berry ---> Rolling Stones
Bo Diddley
Bob Dylan ---> (Best Brit answer was Donovan...heh heh heh..)
Booker T and The MGs
The Ventures ---> Keith Moon
Jimi Hendrix
The Doors
Janice Joplin
Creedence Clearwater Revival
Iggy Pop
The Ramones --> Sex Pistols, Clash
Talking Heads
Patti Smith
Television
Public Enemy (what would the rappin' crackers of England do
without the real thing? Nothing! Brits probably
think the Stone Roses invented rap...)
The Minutemen
Nirvana

I thought Brits were supposed to be a tad sharper than the Yanks,
but...thanks Simon, for dispelling that myth (if you're a Brit,
that is).

AC

Alessiana

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Aug 31, 1996, 3:00:00 AM8/31/96

to Simon Clarke

hahahaha

there was no rem
there was no byrds
there was no doors
there was no dead
there was no husker du
there is no perry farrell
there is no springsteen
there is no neil young
there was no sonic youth
there was no pearl jam
there sure as hell aint no hip hop
there sure as hell ain't no beck
there ain't no reznor
all there ever was is brit pop and new wave lets not forget that punk
actually evolved dually on both sides of the atlantic, ok?? oh, and
also US hair bands were mirrored in brit glam/new wave crap as well

oh, and elvis.... sorry about that we do still have elvis
nice of you to mention dylan
considering that so many of his songs
were ripped off by the brits
guess you couldn't miss that huh?

OASIS??? conquer the usa.... we're still laughing
at the lyric

oh, and the smiths? talk about self hatred...really man.
not only that but his poetry couldn't be more disconnected from the
musical content if he'd written them separatly in a vacuum

want some lyric? read some vedder moments in my tree lets see if
lyrical content matches musical content consistenly in all his work

ahhhh

yup

aless

Ghost Face Fucker

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Sep 1, 1996, 3:00:00 AM9/1/96

to pha...@thenet.co.uk

In article <509hhn$5...@news.ios.com>, a8...@village.ios.com wrote:

>The first rock and roll star was a white boy from Southern U.S.
>called Elvis. He made some great records and was rather

>PS: any flames will be tossed immediately, so don't bother.

Your going to need to do alot more research into music history
if you think that Elvis was the FIRST Rock 'n Roll Star.

Uhh duhh, why did you write this saying that I wrote this, I was the one
who said Elvis wasn't the first rock and roll star, learn to read the
whole fucking post before replying asshole. I cant believe you cut out
only the segment that I cut from that guys article and wrote back to it
under my name. Don't ever do that it pisses me off!!! So fuck off!

superfly

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Sep 1, 1996, 3:00:00 AM9/1/96

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Alessiana wrote:
>
> hahahaha
>
> there was no rem
> there was no byrds
> there was no doors
> there was no dead
> there was no husker du
> there is no perry farrell
> there is no springsteen
> there is no neil young
> there was no sonic youth
> there was no pearl jam
> there sure as hell aint no hip hop
> there sure as hell ain't no beck
> there ain't no reznor
> all there ever was is brit pop and new wave lets not forget that punk
> actually evolved dually on both sides of the atlantic, ok?? oh, and
> also US hair bands were mirrored in brit glam/new wave crap as well

Neil Young is Canadian

> oh, and elvis.... sorry about that we do still have elvis
> nice of you to mention dylan
> considering that so many of his songs
> were ripped off by the brits
> guess you couldn't miss that huh?
>
> OASIS??? conquer the usa.... we're still laughing
> at the lyric

I'm from the U.S. and I'm *still* laughing at Jim Morrison's lyrics!!

> oh, and the smiths? talk about self hatred...really man.
> not only that but his poetry couldn't be more disconnected from the
> musical content if he'd written them separatly in a vacuum

Morrisey is extremly sarcastic and funny even though he's self
depricating (spelling?). I don't care for the Smiths much, but I can
recognize that they're pretty darn good.

> want some lyric? read some vedder moments in my tree lets see if
> lyrical content matches musical content consistenly in all his work

Ummm... now I'm really laughing
Lately though, I have been laughing at "Reznor's" lyrics.
Perry Ferrel?? Laughing
Dead? Laughing

Alessiana

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Sep 1, 1996, 3:00:00 AM9/1/96

to Ghost Face Killer

Ghost Face Killer wrote:
>
> From here on, it was almost all Britain.

RIGHT!!! see below, culled from your own fucking post

>jerry lee lewis showed
> up, then the 60's (Jim Hendrix, Jim Morrison,
> etc), kiss, and disco records were coming

> out, and then that wen't into the 80's hard rock, which quickly side
> streamed into death metal. Then disco developed into the 80's keboard
> music/soft rap/and early techno. Soon Metalica came around,and Slayer
> and stuff, and that was where metal came from. Rap exploded during the
> late 80's/early 90's, and it was everywhere. Shortly after, the seattle
> scene emerged. The rap scene stayed around for a few years, and slowly
> developed into hip hop just recently, and the seattle scene is still
> slightly around, but basicly dead. There is history summed up in one
> paragraph.

where are these above mentioned people & styles from? oh yeah, britain
hahahahahaha

one additional comment was very uninformed. the hip hop comment. hip
hop has been around longer then rap

> PS: any flames will be tossed immediately, so don't bother.

please toss me. i can't stand to see people posting shit without a
clue. i didn't even have to ADD anything (band wise) to your post!
thank you thank you for flaming yourself for me. my job was easy

all you people out there who for whatever reason added the pearl jam
newsgroup to your post, GO AWAY. this is a really stupid thread based
upon conceit and IGNORANCE of the topic.

oh, maybe i WILL add something to your thread. here's a music factoid.
rap isn't gone, its everywhere still in its pure form. additionally,
its evolved by fusing with other genres. and talk about moving rock in
a totally new direction.... man, just hold on to your seats baby cos its
comin that influence is powerful african americans have always always
been significant, if not the single most significant contributors to
amercian culture music is no different

thank god

aless

Spaceman

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Sep 1, 1996, 3:00:00 AM9/1/96

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In article <508oj1$k...@net.auckland.ac.nz>, s.cl...@auckland.ac.nz says...
>

***********Shouldn't you be helping your mother do the dishes?***********

>A BRIEF HISTORY OF POP
>
>

Alessiana

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Sep 1, 1996, 3:00:00 AM9/1/96

to superfly

superfly wrote:
>
>
> Neil Young is Canadian
>

yeah, really? no shit sherlock! my point was that he was not british. i was
attacking what seems to be a prevelant concept about rock music that pervades across
the atlantic. i shoulda added rush as well

> I'm from the U.S. and I'm *still* laughing at Jim Morrison's lyrics!!

you are entitled

>>his poetry couldn't be more disconnected from the
> > musical content if he'd written them separatly in a vacuum
> Morrisey is extremly sarcastic and funny even though he's self
> depricating (spelling?). I don't care for the Smiths much, but I can
> recognize that they're pretty darn good.

my comments were directed not a morrisey's poetry, by itself, or at his/smiths music
by itself. and i also have no problem with any artist covering the issue of self
hatred. my response was directed at what seems to be a tendancy for the lyric to work
against the music. maybe that's what you mean by his sarcasm? if that's what you
mean then yes, morrisey is very sacrastic.

> > want some lyric? read some vedder moments in my tree lets see if
> > lyrical content matches musical content consistenly in all his work
>
>

>Ummm... now I'm really laughing
> Lately though, I have been laughing at "Reznor's" lyrics.
> Perry Ferrel?? Laughing
> Dead? Laughing

if you read that again you will see i'm referring to eddie vedder's lyrics, not any of
the other artists you mention. and what i am referring to specifically, is his
ability to match lyrical meaning with muscial content. if ed is sad, its in the
music. if he's introspective, its in the music, if he's pissed, its in the music.
often you know the meaning just from the music...especially when the music is his
alone.

of course if you imply that vedder's lyrics are something to laugh at, then you will
have invited a rather serious discussion

and about those other artists you laugh at, reznor & farrell particularly, go right
ahead and laugh. but they are making significant musical contributions. they may not
be great poets, but they are great musicians. my reason for mentioning them... and i
left so many off the list, i'm embarrassed, was that they'd made these contributions
without being british.

i don't understand this need among brits to paint themselves so large. i just don't
get it. the british contribution to music is enormous... its fucking huge. but why
on earth is there this need to make it larger by denying others their art? in order
to be so large, the brits have to make others smaller? so lets just deny the vitality
and artistry of the american and canadian music scene? lets deny its inventiveness?

i'm really really sorry that oasis is not the hit over here that everyone wants them
to be. sorry but we have our own icons. they serve us well. for now, its enough.

aless - who wonders how much of the supposedly "new" british invasion is not driven by
a madison avenue/mtv desparate for something new.... maybe something that actually
lends itself better to marketing?

n

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Sep 2, 1996, 3:00:00 AM9/2/96

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> Ghost Face Fucker <a8...@village.ios.com> writes:
> Uhh duhh, why did you write this saying that I wrote this, I was the one
> who said Elvis wasn't the first rock and roll star, learn to read the
> whole fucking post before replying asshole.

While a low level of reading competence may in fact have been
the reason for his misquoting you, the fact that you're usenet
software seems not to distinguish between quoted text and your
own message only adds to the confusion. Your followups are
nearly impossible to read as it is, so it would be of immense help
for you to physically add a ">" to every line of quoted text. (Use
the above quoted text in my message as an example, though my
software automatically adds them.) If there is a way for you to get
your software to add them automatically, then get it to do that.

n

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Sep 2, 1996, 3:00:00 AM9/2/96

to

> s.cl...@auckland.ac.nz (Simon Clarke) writes:
> A BRIEF HISTORY OF POP

<snip>

> Thus ends this brief history of rock and roll music. What has
> been given here is an unopinionated, straightforward account
> of the facts which leaves the reader to draw his or her own
> general conclusions about this unique art form.

I wonder what exactly was the point of this crosspost...

Oh, well. It won't keep me up at night.

n

Jiff

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Sep 2, 1996, 3:00:00 AM9/2/96

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s.cl...@auckland.ac.nz (Simon Clarke) wrote:

>Punks also realised that less is more. The Sex Pistols played
>fast, catchy, three-minute pop tunes and were bloody brilliant.
>They also did it with attitude, something that was distinctly
>lacking previously. The Pistols hated the music establishment,
>corporate greed, and all the old bands who never went away and

heh.. that is pathetic, how come the sex pistols ADMIT they only did
it to make money? they admit their reunion is only to make money off
the incredible stupid, and that's why they got together in the first
place...

fucking sucker..

>Finally
>there came All-Conquering Oasis. Blessed with a singer
>who was everyone's favourite singers all rolled into one and a
>song-writer who, well, wrote good songs, it was clear to smart
>cookies like me, if it wasn't to others, that these guys were
>going to be really huge. With their second album, All-Conquering

oddly enough there are a shitload of people that hate oasis for many
reasons, the best of which is that they have a whiney singer that is
very low on talent. very, very low. their songs aren't that good,
just more of the same old crap...

jiff

do the world a favor, kill a crowdsurfer.

superfly

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Sep 2, 1996, 3:00:00 AM9/2/96

to

Alessiana wrote:

> yeah, really? no shit sherlock!

Here we go. You know the argument should stop when the swearing and name
calling starts, yawn...

> > I'm from the U.S. and I'm *still* laughing at Jim Morrison's lyrics!!
>
> you are entitled

THANKS! I am entitled to live in the U.S.!! Try to stay away from
letting you're opinions cloud facts. I think the Doors are on their way
out (the door!!) I don't here them as much on the radio and I haven't
met a youngster in the past five or so years who really likes them.

> >>his poetry couldn't be more disconnected from the
> > > musical content if he'd written them separatly in a vacuum
> > Morrisey is extremly sarcastic and funny even though he's self
> > depricating (spelling?). I don't care for the Smiths much, but I can
> > recognize that they're pretty darn good.

> my comments were directed not a morrisey's poetry,

I thought we were talking about songwriting?? Morrisey wrote poetry??
Am I on some sort of Poetry newsgroup-WHOOPS!

by itself, or at his/smiths music

cute sentence

> by itself. and i also have no problem with any artist covering the issue of self
> hatred. my response was directed at what seems to be a tendancy for the lyric to work
> against the music. maybe that's what you mean by his sarcasm? if that's what you
> mean then yes, morrisey is very sacrastic.

I meant the guy is sarcastic, what part are you having a problem with?
Sometimes he may even be ironic.

> if you read that again you will see i'm referring to eddie vedder's lyrics, not any of

Wait, his lyrics or his "poetry"??

> the other artists you mention. and what i am referring to > >specifically, is his
> ability to match lyrical meaning with muscial content.

I must have missed music class that day...matching wha? What are you
talking about? Just because it's not "poetic" doesn't make it less
significant musically. where are you getting these little rules for
music-wait...they're your OPINIONS!

>if ed is sad, its in the
> music. if he's introspective, its in the music, if he's pissed, its >in the music.
> often you know the meaning just from the music...especially when the music is his
> alone.

It's not his alone, he's now writing songs KNOWING millions are going to
hear it-why do people want to believe so badly that their Rock heroes
are so sensitive. He made his sensetive bed, and now he has to lie in
it for the rest of his sensetive career
Listen, if he's so mad at the establishment (ticketmaster), hates being
a "star", and is just plain miserable he should, as Mr. Gallagher said:
"go work at a McDonalds"

> of course if you imply that vedder's lyrics are something to laugh at, then you will
> have invited a rather serious discussion

Hey! I thought I had some rights earlier in this post and now you're
taking those rights away, man.
I don't think it should be seriously discussed at all. Just because you
believe that you and Mr. Vedder are on some sort of similar emotional
path or poetic wavelength or whatever you want to call it doesn't mean
you have to run around defending his lyrics-you take your entertainment
WAAAAY too seriously-lighten up-just like whatever and whoever you like
and don't get so defensive.

> and about those other artists you laugh at, reznor & farrell particularly, go right
> ahead and laugh. but they are making significant musical contributions.

Jeez, how can you say that they are making significant contributions?
They're too young and it's too soon to tell what kind of contributions
they may or may not have made.

> i'm embarrassed,
You should be, for letting your opinions and emotions get in the way of
facts. Your opinion means nothing, so why do you preach so much about
what is "significant" without backing it up?

> i'm really really sorry that oasis is not the hit over here that >everyone wants them

why are YOU sorry, are you responsible?? So *you're* the reason!!

You like music that you feel is poetic and "significant", and that's
fine as long as you don't come out ready to fight anyone who disagrees
with your feelings towards the music you like. Time will tell if your
*opinions* become facts...for now, let it go.

superfly

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Sep 2, 1996, 3:00:00 AM9/2/96

to

Who started this thing!!??
I'm sure he/she is sitting back having a good laugh!
I want this thing off of our board-it's BORING-let's agree to dump it
startin' today PLEASE STOP Cross Posting!!!!!!

Geir Hongro

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Sep 2, 1996, 3:00:00 AM9/2/96

to

ji...@buffnet.net (Jiff) wrote:

>do the world a favor, kill a crowdsurfer.

You mean kill a stagediver?? Then I'm with you :-)

Geir Hongro

http://www.uio.no/~hongro/engelsk.htm

Scott Davis

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Sep 2, 1996, 3:00:00 AM9/2/96

to

Simon Clarke wrote:
>
> A BRIEF HISTORY OF POP

>snippety -snip<

> Elvis is just about all America has ever contributed to pop. That's it.
> One sexy white boy who stole music from black people.
> From here on, it was almost all Britain.
>

Man, are you really that stupid?

No Americans did anything of note in the sixties. None.
>

Lou Reid??? Jimmie Hendrix??? Without them the British would still be
playing like the Beatles.

>
> Punks also realised that less is more. The Sex Pistols played
> fast, catchy, three-minute pop tunes and were bloody brilliant.
> They also did it with attitude, something that was distinctly
> lacking previously. The Pistols hated the music establishment,
> corporate greed, and all the old bands who never went away and
> never did anything new. They recently reformed for a lucrative
> reunion tour. The Clash also started with a fierce attitude, but
> were to transform into something resembling a marshmallow eight
> years later. At a point where their music was becoming lighter
> yet still retained some edge, they made 'London Calling', an album
> so good that it is probably the best ever.
>

Yeah, and punk started in NEW YORK CITY, with the MC5, The Velvet Underground
(there's that Lou Reid again...) New York Dolls and the Ramones for God's
sake!! As much as I like British punk, it developed from the American scene.
Joe Strummer even says that The Ramones and Chuck Berry were two of his
biggest influences, and the last time I checked...yup, americans!

"... if i had the wings of a dove,
i would fly away and be at rest.
take a walk, make sure you end up far from here,
and don't ever look back,
'cause you already know,
they'll laugh at you,
they always do... "

bye,
jackie

" i'd rather be dead than cool" - kurt cobain

" i hate what i have become,
to escape what i hated being" - marilyn manson

superfly

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Sep 3, 1996, 3:00:00 AM9/3/96

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Geir Hongro wrote:

> I wrote, and still write, that I like Motown music a lot. Stevie
> Wonder is one of the greatest songwriters ever. I also LOVE
> Bob Marley. It's just that so-called "black" music (sadly
> including reggae) has taken a direction the last ten years or so I
> don't like. The only "black" music artist before rap evolved that
> I hate is James Brown. The big disaster is those untalented people
> have been inspired by him.

Oh sure, that whole Beatles and Rolling Stones thing was a big disaster,
what a bunch of no-talents ;)

> Still I hate rap and I think that, except for the lyrics - some of
> them among the greatest in music history, rap is WORTHLESS, as is
> all other music without melody!

I have to disagree, there are interesting things done in rap and there
is "crap", if you will. I personally don't really want to hear any of
it, but my not wanting to hear it doesn't make it less valid as a music
form. There are very soulful things done with repeating beats, like
James Brown's later music. It's a "groove" (there's that damn word
again!) and it's perfectly valid. Have you heard earlier James Brown,
though, as opposed to the later Hot Pants, Mother Popcorn, etc. Or heard
the James Brown compilation, "Messing with the Blues"? At the very
least, one cannot call James Brown's singing worthless. I don't think
it's fair to just throw a blanket over JB's entire career since he's
gone through so many changes. I'm listening to him now and all I hear
are tuneful bluesy songs (right now he's doing a falsetto thing). As
for Bob Marley-I've never been one for reggae, but all I've heard are
non-melodic efforts of repeating beats which, I think(?), have
contributed a bunch of influence on rap. I think earlier reggae was
more soul/melody based, yes?? I'm ignorant in the reggae catagory, so I
really cannot comment too much except that it has always bored me.

Mary

Geir Hongro

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Sep 3, 1996, 3:00:00 AM9/3/96

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superfly <supe...@texas.net> wrote:
>Geir Hongro wrote:

>I have to disagree, there are interesting things done in rap and there
>is "crap", if you will.

I can't see why (except for the lyrics) you could possibly say
there is any difference in quality between Vanilla Ice and Public
Enemy.

>I personally don't really want to hear any of
>it, but my not wanting to hear it doesn't make it less valid as a music
>form. There are very soulful things done with repeating beats, like
>James Brown's later music. It's a "groove" (there's that damn word
>again!) and it's perfectly valid. Have you heard earlier James Brown,
>though, as opposed to the later Hot Pants, Mother Popcorn, etc. Or heard
>the James Brown compilation, "Messing with the Blues"? At the very
>least, one cannot call James Brown's singing worthless. I don't think
>it's fair to just throw a blanket over JB's entire career since he's
>gone through so many changes.

"Living In America" is a nice song, so is "A Man's Man's World".
Still there is lot of rubbish like "Funky Drummer" and "Sex
Machine".

> As
>for Bob Marley-I've never been one for reggae, but all I've heard are
>non-melodic efforts of repeating beats which, I think(?), have
>contributed a bunch of influence on rap. I think earlier reggae >was
>more soul/melody based, yes??

Bob Marley had a lot of nice melodies on his 70s records. Of
course "Exodus" was quite non-melodic, which makes it his worst
song by far. After the death of Bob Marley some reggae artists
have done quite unmelodic things.

I know rap is a lot inspired by the toasting on top of some old
reggae records, but while toasting was just an effect the rap
people have made it into a genre.

Geir Hongro

http://www.uio.no/~hongro/engelsk.htm

Geir Hongro

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Sep 3, 1996, 3:00:00 AM9/3/96

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Spac...@btinternet.com (Spaceman) wrote:

>The singer Liam is a bit of a shite-box but Neol is a genius (and they both
>know it - that's why Liam is such an attention seeker whilst Noel plods on).
>If you don't believe me now, check him out in 10 years - his place in history
>is assured.

Only time will show whether he is able to continue coming up with
strong songs. The most important thing about Oasis & co. right now
is they have made melody fashionable once more.

And when it comes to Liam. He may be some kind of wanker, but
still he is a better singer than Noel.

Geir Hongro

http://www.uio.no/~hongro/

superfly

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Sep 3, 1996, 3:00:00 AM9/3/96

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Alessiana wrote:
<snip>

>what i've observed, leads me to
>think that many of the people who agressively hate rap and hip hop, >also hate african americans. i'm white. i see it all the fucking >time. somehow people think, if you're white, you think like them. they >reveal themselves. its sickening.

The statement above is sickening! Haven't you figured out that some
people are just aggressive and passionate about what they like and don't
like?? You, yourself, become irrate if somone says that Saint Eddie's
lyrics are shit. Where do you come up with this crap!? ***YOU*** have
made the most sweeping generalizations so far by trying to make yourself
look good!!

let's repeat it just to make sure we read it right:

"what i've observed, leads me to think many of the people who
agressively hate rap and hip hop, also hate african americans.i'm white.
i see it all the fucking time. somehow people think, if you're white,
you think like them"

Think AGAIN! Where are your facts, what is this statement based on, just
what exactly have YOU *"observed"*-television and movies perhaps? You
had better quit this whole thing while you can still save face.

> accusation by saying (paraphrasing as best i can) "blacks don't
> appreciate melody and the only reason motown had melodies was cos it >was written for white folk", then i really do think i'm reading a racist

Looks like your best wasn't good enough because...That's NOT EVEN CLOSE
to what we were talking about, that is your **interpretation** of what
we said because you are ignorant on the subject and you are dead wrong,
again! When are you gonna stop that?...

I'll recap:
I said to Geir, and it is a *FACT* (do you know what a FACT is?), that
Mowtown artists were GROOMED by the record label so they would appeal to
whites, who were, at the time-early 60s-, the majority of the pop-music
buying public. Call Berry Gordy and ask him yourself (he started
Mowtown records, in case you didn't know). Everything was calculated;
clothes (see all Mowtown artists), dance moves during performances (see
4 tops), the big grins on motown artists faces (see early Supremes clips
from TV performances-Diana Ross' smile is blinding!). I believe, they
even brought in an etiquette teacher to teach the female performers how
to carry themselves. I watched Berry Gordy say so himself in an
interview!

My *only* point (and I know I had one somewhere) was that Even though I
love both, I prefer the Memphis Stax label to Detroit's Motown label
because I think Stax has more grit and soul-period.

Where you got your "...written for white folk..." version of what Geir
and I were discussing, I don't know! Your mind is really twisted-are
you going through that wild and crazy "Look at me! I'm so liberal and
anti-establishment" phase in your life?

> i calls em like i smells em
Your olfactory(sp) nerves need ajusting!

> this one stinks to high heaven

No... you stink, because you want anyone who doesn't like or "hates" a
particular genre of african-american music or a particular
african-american artist to look racist so that you can show how liberal
you are! You misquote posts and twist them to make yourself look like
some sort of down-to-earth politically correct great white hope. It's
like you're looking for a fight! Stop reading into people's posts and
calling people racists, it's totally fucked up!

Why don't you go do something useful with your free time instead of
fighting battles that don't exist! (No, I don't mean racism doesn't
exist)-You could...go pick up litter in your neighborhood or become a
big brother/ sister to a kid who is lonely-you could even volunteer to
teach under privilaged kids how to use a computer. Why not volunteer to
pick up grocerys and run errands for someone who needs help because they
can't leave their home because of sickness or old age? Or you could
even volunteer at a no kill animal shelter. Get your hands dirty
instead shooting your mouth off on-line. If you are already active in
some possitive way, good for you.

Mary-who wishes Aless's computer would die.

superfly

then again, that comment was from someone who says they are cdn, but
who's all time fav list fails to mention any cdn artists... there is a
thriving industry here besides the likes of bryan adams and alanis....
real quality music...

Jeremy Brezovan

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Sep 4, 1996, 3:00:00 AM9/4/96

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In article <50himd$3...@news1.channel1.com>,

Mike Breen <mi...@user1.channel1.com> wrote:
>Oasis? You mean the John Lennons? Badfinger mark II? The #1 rip-off
>artists in the world? This is the band who brings the term "boring
>stageshow" to new lows. And music is _entertainment_ first and foremost.

...and all of this time i've been led to believe music is art. hmph.

it's sad that so many people still fail to make the distinction between
music (aural expression of human emotions, the "expression" being the art) and
the music industry (entertainment and money).

btw, ripping off people is nothing new. even handel knew enough to rip
off things he liked from other composers, with the excuse that he could do
better things with the elements of the composition he "borrowed" than
the original composer could. (couldn't you see liam saying this? be
honest.)

Persinthia Lawdro

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Sep 4, 1996, 3:00:00 AM9/4/96

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>Does it really matter where the music comes from?

Amen! You summed it all up right here.

Doug Melcher

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Sep 5, 1996, 3:00:00 AM9/5/96

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Simon Clarke wrote:
>
> A BRIEF HISTORY OF POP
>

> It is generally acknowledged that rock and roll began with the
> black people of America, stretching back to their African origins.
> Several accounts of eighteenth century adventurers indicate that
> 'I Can't Get No Satisfaction' was in fact a Zulu tribal anthem.
> After briefly acknowledging this fact of the origin of pop,
> most histories thereafter ignore it and get on to Elvis.
> And so will this one.
>
> The first rock and roll star was a white boy from Southern U.S.
> called Elvis. He made some great records and was rather
> quite popular. Almost single-handedly, he put sex into music
> and it has remained there ever since. In fact sex is probably
> the defining feature of pop, since if you took the sex out of
> rock and roll, it wouldn't be rock and roll. Elvis is just

> about all America has ever contributed to pop. That's it.
> One sexy white boy who stole music from black people.
> From here on, it was almost all Britain.
>

> Four cheeky, chirpy, fun-loving mop-tops conquered the world and
> everybody loved them. They were bigger than Jesus Christ.
> Apparently they defined a generation. I don't knowmuch about
> that, but I do know they left behind some jolly good records.
> One of these, 'Hey Jude', is unquestionably the finest song ever
> recorded. The Rolling Stones were a lot uglier but somehow sexier.
> The Kinks didn't have the success of either but were cooler than
> both. The Who smashed their instruments on stage, something that
> was considered pretty wild and crazy back in those days. No

> Americans did anything of note in the sixties. None.
>

> Well, maybe a few. Bob Dylan was a man with things on his mind.
> He composed songs about Really Serious And Important Things
> such as . . . ummm . . . well . . . actually, what important
> things did Dylan say? Jimi Hendrix was another man with things
> on his mind, but these things were of a chemical variety.
>
> The next big band to come along were Led Zeppelin. Nobody ever
> admits it now, but they were actually quite good. Unfortunately
> they inspired a lot of other bands, generically known as
> 'progressive rock', who made the mistake of thinking that if they
> played their instruments better and composed songs of greater
> complexity, pop music would be better. They obviously did not
> know much about pop music. Abba, on the other hand, did. They
> knew so much about it they effortlessly churned out a string of
> hit tunes.

>
> Punks also realised that less is more. The Sex Pistols played
> fast, catchy, three-minute pop tunes and were bloody brilliant.
> They also did it with attitude, something that was distinctly
> lacking previously. The Pistols hated the music establishment,
> corporate greed, and all the old bands who never went away and
> never did anything new. They recently reformed for a lucrative
> reunion tour. The Clash also started with a fierce attitude, but
> were to transform into something resembling a marshmallow eight
> years later. At a point where their music was becoming lighter
> yet still retained some edge, they made 'London Calling', an album
> so good that it is probably the best ever.
>

> America? America in the seventies was unable to find anything new,
> so gave us Elvis again. But it was a different Elvis. Much different.
>

> Then came The Great Depression of Pop Music. Times were tough.
> Talent was hard to come by. Good music was so thin on the ground
> that respectable people were heard saying things like "Style
> Council have got some quite good songs actually". Bands in the
> eighties focused their attention on their hair rather than their
> music. The oasis in this desert were The Smiths who mixed
> irresistible melodies with witty and intelligent lyrics. It's
> probably no coincidence that the city they came from (which was
> also the origin of the only other decent band at the time - New
> Order) was to be the city that would end the Depression. Manchester.
>
> From Manchester They Came. The Stone Roses. Happy Mondays.
> Inspiral Carpets. Soup Dragons. The Farm. Okay, in hindsight
> they were all crap except for the Roses. But at the time they
> seemed a gift from God. The Roses put out a staggeringly good
> first album and then mysteriously and coolly disappeared for
> five years to return with a just as brilliant second, which
> everybody predictably hated. The Manchester scene was probably more
> important for its influence on what came later rather than the
> actual bands. The infusion of dance and rap into pop music
> would define the next decade.

>
> America finally got with the programme with Nirvana and Smashing
> Pumpkins. Their songs are about how much they hate themselves.
> In fact, it is interesting that most of the songs by America's
> best and most popular new bands such as those two and Hole seem
> to have a theme of self-hatred. Some would argue that this is
> indicative evidence of a deep flaw in the contemporary American
> psyche engendered by an increasingly complex, commercialised,
> and alienating societal structure. But it's probably just that
> the song-writers are fucked up.
>

> Britain continued its run of form with a string of great bands
> such as Suede, Manic Street Preachers, Blur, and Pulp. Finally

> there came All-Conquering Oasis. Blessed with a singer
> who was everyone's favourite singers all rolled into one and a
> song-writer who, well, wrote good songs, it was clear to smart
> cookies like me, if it wasn't to others, that these guys were

> going to be really huge. With their second album, All-Conquering

> Oasis cracked America in 1996. They then played a blinder of a
> gig in Auckland of that year before going on to sell more records
> than the four mop-tops and the Rolling Stones combined. Next,
> they won for England the 1998 soccer World Cup. Then they
> decided to become really big.

>
> Thus ends this brief history of rock and roll music. What has
> been given here is an unopinionated, straightforward account
> of the facts which leaves the reader to draw his or her own
> general conclusions about this unique art form.

You know nothing of music.You buy what they sell you.You missed all the
good artists.You are also a racist!

Alessiana

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Sep 5, 1996, 3:00:00 AM9/5/96

to

we can refer to the statements below

Geir's

statement #1 09/01/97

>In 1963 The Beatles brought the
>SONGSMITH into rock and rock was saved.

>Then a little less than 20 years later some untalented BASTARDS
>started this accident called RAP, the worst thing that has ever
>happened to music. Some years after that another DISASTER arrived.
>HOUSE was its name.

calling the creators of rap "untalented bastards" is the first thing that set me off.
i accused him of racisism. he sends another post, which i erred in thinking was a
reply to me:

Geir's

statement #2 09/02/97

>They [motown artists] were given good songs so they could be presentable and
>accepted by whites. For some reason good songs mean more to the
>white public than the black.

to me, the above reads very much like numerous statements that i've heard over the
years disparaging african americans.

i know a lot of people who don't care for rap. that's what they say. they don't like
it. they don't say the people who invented it were bastards or that good songs don't
mean much to blacks.

now on to your, mary's, ummmmm, flame attempt.

superfly wrote:
>
> Alessiana wrote:
> <snip>
>

the part mary snipped out was

"it was the degree of hatred espoused by the writer that made me think as i did. i
could be wrong. that would be cool. i'm definately sensitive
on the issue of racism and bigotry."

this is fairly clear, don't you think?

> You, yourself, become irrate if somone says that Saint Eddie's
> lyrics are shit.

irate? i became IRATE over possible racism, not over a person's opinion that vedder's
lyrics are shit. i said to you in a previous post that we could have a serious
discussion on lyrics. that is all. i am comfortable in saying that because the
lyrics stand up to scrutiny. if you wanna talk about it, fine. but that is far from
the matter at hand

>Where do you come up with this crap!? ***YOU*** have
> made the most sweeping generalizations so far by trying to make yourself
> look good

um, my dear, i am not trying to make myself "look" any particular way. i look the
way i look, however fucked up that may be.

that was not my motive for addressing the issue of racism.

>
> let's repeat it just to make sure we read it right:
>
> "what i've observed, leads me to think many of the people who
> agressively hate rap and hip hop, also hate african americans.i'm white.
> i see it all the fucking time. somehow people think, if you're white,
> you think like them"
>
> Think AGAIN! Where are your facts, what is this statement based on, just
> what exactly have YOU *"observed"*-television and movies perhaps?

you ARE kidding right? tell me that you are! you are implying you have no frame of
reference for this issue, therefore, you can't imagine another may have an
understanding garnered from experience?

to me this should be obvious to any member of american society. i can't believe that
you've not encountered this previously. it is an absurd argument. i could only have
encountered racist hatreds from television & movies?

you live in Texas. is that correct? in whatever time you've spent living there,
you've observed nothing? i've personally seen shit in texas and i've heard of shit in
texas as well.

i order to discuss the issue of racism, i need to dredge up stories which i hate to
even think about, in order to have credibility on the issue? you can't understand
what i could be referring to? you are oblivious to it?

DUH!

>You
> had better quit this whole thing while you can still save face.
>

i don't HAVE face, or at least, i try not to. face is BULLSHIT. face is stupid and
empty. i make mistakes every fucking day. in the on-line world i do it where
EVERYONE can read how fucking ignorant i am.

but i understand that. do you?

because i am human....because i make mistakes, my philosophy is to admit to it and do
the best i can the next time. maybe i can be a little better.

maybe everyday, if i try and continue to reflect on my thoughts and actions, i can
improve. i can try to be a better person. but you know what? i still suck. i still
bite. but i won't give up because it is too important to the people i love, the
people i will know and anyone i speak with on the net.

even so, i fuck up all the time. ask anyone in alt.pj ask ron moskowitz in
particular, i've been real ignorant to him.

> > accusation by saying (paraphrasing as best i can) "blacks don't
> > appreciate melody and the only reason motown had melodies was cos it >was written for white folk", then i really do think i'm reading a racist
>
> Looks like your best wasn't good enough because...That's NOT EVEN CLOSE
> to what we were talking about, that is your **interpretation** of what
> we said because you are ignorant on the subject and you are dead wrong,
> again! When are you gonna stop that?...

yes that is my interpretation of what was said. it is presented to show the essence
of what offended me. this exactly how i had interpreted his statement. are you
saying that, after referring to geir's statement quoted above, you can't see how i
could make this interpretation?

think about it from another person's perspective

add to it that the person (geir) is not speaking with the passion of someone that
LOVES something, but the passion of someone that HATES something. hates it enough to
say that people are bastards.

> I'll recap:
> I said to Geir,
>

i never once referred to you, mary, in any of my posts on the issue of racism, other
than with incredulity that you didn't get it. i referred only to geir.

i do not think you are a racist mary, although right now i'm more than a bit confused
by the violence & aggression in your words to me. you do not appear to be sensitive
to racism itself, but to the accusations of racism. this strikes me as unusual.

you will even go so far as to imply that it (racism) could not be evident in every day
american life and that someone would have to see a movie to understand/see it. it is
as if you walk around in a daze.

that is what i construe from your comments. but i COULD bite on this one. maybe i
just don't get it at all.

> Where you got your "...written for white folk..." version of what Geir
> and I were discussing, I don't know!

please see the above statement #2 from geir

>Your mind is really twisted-are
> you going through that wild and crazy "Look at me! I'm so liberal and
> anti-establishment" phase in your life?

no, i've always been liberal. i was raised to think this way. this is how i was
taught and my life experiences have done NOTHING but reinforce my teaching.

> > i calls em like i smells em
> Your olfactory(sp) nerves need ajusting!
>

that may very well be true, or at least i may need to re-sniff. i've not read
anything geir has written (i barely have the time to answer my e-mail at this time
[SORRY EVERYONE!!!]) since the day he wrote the comment about good songs not mattering
as much to blacks, as to whites. he could have written something that totally wipes
out the content, flavor and philosophy inherent in the statement. that's possible. an
apology would do it. or perhaps an acknowledgement of "how" someone might
misinterpret his comment, followed by an explaination of what he really meant

talk about generalizations!

blacks don't appreciate good songs
whites do

uhhhh huh

this sounds like ..... the reason there are no black swimmers in the olympics is cos
they don't float

this sounds like...... blacks can't play quarterback cos... (who the fuck knows the
reason for that one!!)

geir's statement is a gross distortion of reality and it does imply racism. that
coupled with the vehemence of his hatred (bastards!!) ... well

> > this one stinks to high heaven
>
> No... you stink, because you want anyone who doesn't like or "hates" a
> particular genre of african-american music or a particular
> african-american artist to look racist so that you can show how liberal
> you are!

sorry mary, all i did was call him on his own comments. i don't need to show
anything. i already am this way. its prolly pretty fucking evident from what i write
weekly... at least i hope so. my values are very important to me.

>You misquote posts and twist them

i said i was paraphrasing, mary. i've learned something about debate over time. i
paraphrased to make it very clear how i had interpreted his comment.

>to make yourself look like
> some sort of down-to-earth politically correct great white hope.

i do take serious offense to this. not the great white hope bullshit, that's
meaningless. its the "politically correct" portion that offends me.

it offends me as a liberal. this whole pc crap is a way of trying to distort a
philosophy, a way of life, to make it seem somehow less than what it is. to make a
set of values appear as a buzz-word that can then be easily mocked.

its hard to mock a person's stand against racism
its easy to mock the "politcally correct"
its hard to mock a person's stand for women's equality under the law
its easy to mock political correctness
its hard to mock a stand for a clean environment
its easy to mock pc

this is conservative bullshit

>It's
> like you're looking for a fight! Stop reading into people's posts and
> calling people racists, it's totally fucked up!
>

no, i didn't look for this. i don't even know what newsgroup you are from. i could
give a fuck. you guys came here. geir said what he said, here in alt.pj. so yeah, i
am gonna call him on his statement

> If you are already active in
> some possitive way, good for you.
>

yup, good for me :)

mary, i've been on line for years. i started w/genie's lovely interface

:P

one thing i've learned is that it is easier to speak past each other then to each
other. i've explained my interpretation.

>Mary-who wishes Aless's computer would die.

aless - who thinks mary's computer didn't fuck up, but that mary's problem with this
issue (or with her, aless) is so extreme, mary had to post her response multiple times
under different headers. she thinks this is a sad thing.

unread,

Sep 6, 1996, 3:00:00 AM9/6/96

to

You obviously have trouble with separating music from culture,
something which is important.

I've never said that all whites like melody while no black does.
My original post was as much an attack against house as an attack
against rap. House is basically white music, but it suffers from
the same lack of melody rap does.

I also know black people preferring melody.

When it comes to my statement about Motown given melody so that
white people would buy it:
In 1960 there still was still big difference between black and
white culture, mostly because whites were too prejudiced to want
to have anything to do with black.
The idea that a song without a real melody would sell amongst
white people was, in 1964, almost unthinkable.
Black people had a traditional music with less melody and
therefore never needed melody in the same way. (Traditional music
is basically shit anyway. It doesn't matter whether it's white or
black traditional music. The (white) traditional music we've got
here in Norway SUCKS and is possibly among the most terrible
sounding traditional music all over the world.)

So let me state this, to separate music and culture: I have
nothing against hip-hop, but I HATE the music associated with it,
having trouble with viewing it music at all. It has nothing to do
with race or culture, simply music.

Geir Hongro

http://www.uio.no/~hongro/engelsk.htm

Message has been deleted

torero

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Sep 6, 1996, 3:00:00 AM9/6/96

to

Geir Hongro <hon...@ils.uio.no> wrote:

>You obviously have trouble with separating music from culture,
>something which is important.

Utterly inseparable.

>I've never said that all whites like melody while no black does.
>My original post was as much an attack against house as an attack
>against rap. House is basically white music, but it suffers from
>the same lack of melody rap does.

House music originated in inner-city America, primarily Chicago,
primarily black. Read the history books again.

> It has nothing to do
>with race or culture, simply music.

Music has everything to do with culture, as do all forms of artistic
expression. When you call an entire genre of music less sophisticated
(or not music), you are, intentionally or no, making a judgment call
on the culture from whence the music came. If I tell you I hate
country music because it's a load of ignorant redneck shit, is that a
judgment on the culture that spawned it? Yes it is. Luckily, it's a
much easier criticism to defend/prove <g>.

joshua nathaniel king

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Sep 6, 1996, 3:00:00 AM9/6/96

to

Lay off of it guys. Music is music. You listen to what you want.
Nobody has the right to tell anyone else what they should or shouldn't be
listening to.

Andy Garcia

unread,

Sep 7, 1996, 3:00:00 AM9/7/96

to

Geir Hongro <hon...@ils.uio.no> wrote:

>What is important is the MELODY, nothing more, nothing less.
>A good lyric is just kind of a bonus.

That pretty pictures are the most important part of a film.

Strong plot and characterisation are "just kind of a bonus".

What a load of bullshit.

Andy Garcia

unread,

Sep 7, 1996, 3:00:00 AM9/7/96

to

Geir Hongro <hon...@ils.uio.no> wrote:

>andyg...@uk.pipeline.com (Andy Garcia) wrote:
>>Geir Hongro <hon...@ils.uio.no> wrote:
>>

>>>andyg...@uk.pipeline.com (Andy Garcia) wrote:
>>>>Geir Hongro <hon...@ils.uio.no> wrote:
>>>>

In other words YOU REALLY DON'T CARE ABOUT MUSIC THAT MUCH. If that is
the case why are u wasting everyone's time by continuing this
increasingly pointless argument. Why don't u just listen to your
Britpop tapes out there in Norway and stay off USENET altogether.

Geir Hongro

unread,

Sep 7, 1996, 3:00:00 AM9/7/96

to

andyg...@uk.pipeline.com (Andy Garcia) wrote:
>Geir Hongro <hon...@ils.uio.no> wrote:
>

>>What is important is the MELODY, nothing more, nothing less.
>>A good lyric is just kind of a bonus.
>
>That pretty pictures are the most important part of a film.
>
>Strong plot and characterisation are "just kind of a bonus".
>
>What a load of bullshit.

When people like Mozart and Bach composed their music they mostly
had not lyrics at all, and if they had lyrics they were basically
SHIT.

If you are interested in lyrics you are interested in literature,
not music.

Geir Hongro

http://www.uio.no/~hongro/

Persinthia Lawdro

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Sep 7, 1996, 3:00:00 AM9/7/96

to

In article <50rfid$6...@o.online.no>, hon...@ils.uio.no says...

>When people like Mozart and Bach composed their music they mostly
>had not lyrics at all, and if they had lyrics they were basically
>SHIT.

Ever heard of Opera???

Alessiana

unread,

Sep 8, 1996, 3:00:00 AM9/8/96

to Geir Hongro

Geir Hongro wrote:
>
> When people like Mozart and Bach composed their music they mostly
> had not lyrics at all, and if they had lyrics they were basically
> SHIT.
>

hahahaha so sorry, but GOD you ARE a waste of time. you have no idea
what you are talking about. where on earth were you taught about music
and who taught u? god you are a real dumb ass and a racist as well.

you are embarrassing the norweigians. you really should stop.

aless - thinking that opera has no lyrics and surely da pointe couldn't
write for shit

Jiff

unread,

Sep 8, 1996, 3:00:00 AM9/8/96

to

Geir Hongro <hon...@ils.uio.no> wrote:

>ji...@buffnet.net (Jiff) wrote:

>>do the world a favor, kill a crowdsurfer.

>You mean kill a stagediver?? Then I'm with you :-)

either one, anyone that rides on the crowd...

jiff

do the world a favor, kill a crowdsurfer.

Jonny Larsen

unread,

Sep 8, 1996, 3:00:00 AM9/8/96

to

Don't include me and other norwegians with this bullshit.
Geir Hongro is not a good example for the rest of us, but keep on
arguing, it's fun to read. (and YES, he is a waste of time)

Andy Garcia

unread,

Sep 8, 1996, 3:00:00 AM9/8/96

to

Geir Hongro <hon...@ils.uio.no> wrote:

>andyg...@uk.pipeline.com (Andy Garcia) wrote:
>>Geir Hongro <hon...@ils.uio.no> wrote:
>>
>>>What is important is the MELODY, nothing more, nothing less.
>>>A good lyric is just kind of a bonus.
>>
>>That pretty pictures are the most important part of a film.
>>
>>Strong plot and characterisation are "just kind of a bonus".
>>
>>What a load of bullshit.

>When people like Mozart and Bach composed their music they mostly

>had not lyrics at all, and if they had lyrics they were basically
>SHIT.

>If you are interested in lyrics you are interested in literature,
>not music.

Please don't tell me what I am interested in. I think I am in a better
position to tell you ignorant arse that I am interested in both
literature and hip-hop.

And next time you reply to one of my posts don't trim my reply to make
it appear that I can't write English and make my words unintelligible.

Alessiana

unread,

Sep 8, 1996, 3:00:00 AM9/8/96

to Jonny Larsen

Jonny Larsen wrote:
>
> Alessiana wrote:
> >
> > Geir Hongro wrote:
> > >

> > > When people like Mozart and Bach composed their music they mostly
> > > had not lyrics at all, and if they had lyrics they were basically
> > > SHIT.
> > >
> >

> > hahahaha so sorry, but GOD you ARE a waste of time. you have no idea
> > what you are talking about. where on earth were you taught about music
> > and who taught u? god you are a real dumb ass and a racist as well.
> >
> > you are embarrassing the norweigians. you really should stop.
> >
> > aless - thinking that opera has no lyrics and surely da pointe couldn't
> > write for shit
>
> Don't include me and other norwegians with this bullshit.
> Geir Hongro is not a good example for the rest of us, but keep on
> arguing, it's fun to read. (and YES, he is a waste of time)

i don't know...he's a waste of time. i can argue. boy can we all
fucking argue, but he's a waste of our talents. i've never read such
tripe.

aless

Geir Hongro

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Sep 8, 1996, 3:00:00 AM9/8/96

to

cow...@ix.netcom.com (Persinthia Lawdro) wrote:
>In article <50rfid$6...@o.online.no>, hon...@ils.uio.no says...
>
>

>>When people like Mozart and Bach composed their music they mostly
>>had not lyrics at all, and if they had lyrics they were basically
>>SHIT.
>

>Ever heard of Opera???

Check out the plot in Don Giovanni, and I think you'll find out it
isn't much of a plot at all.

On the other hand: What is lyrics? Mozart was a MUSICAL genius
although his lyrics, or stories, were shit.

Geir Hongro

http://www.uio.no/~hongro/

TagoMago

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Sep 8, 1996, 3:00:00 AM9/8/96

to

Listen:
Some ignorant limey fuck posts a retarded synopsis of the "history of
pop", which is totally innaccurate and really just a statement of opinion
anyway.
Let's not keep this thread alive. Okay? Please?

Polar Bear

unread,

oleg issers

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Sep 9, 1996, 3:00:00 AM9/9/96

to

In article <511pvb$m...@o.online.no> Geir Hongro wrote:
>Date: 9 Sep 1996 19:08:27 GMT
>From: Geir Hongro <hon...@ils.uio.no>

>Newsgroups:
>
alt.rap,alt.music.techno,alt.music.pearl-jam,alt.music.nirvana,alt.m
usic.s
>ilverchairSubject: Re: Hatred of Hip Hop = Insecurity (Re: A
HISTORY OF
> POP)
>

>Alessiana <Ales...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>>AJFAB1 wrote:
>>>
>>> What I don't undertand is how some people who are fans of
Chili-Peppers,
>>> Rage Against the Machine and The Beastie Boys hate Rap Music,
or at
>>> the very least acknowledge that Rap Music has played a major
part in the
>>> development of these groups' styles.
>>>
>>
>>ditto ditto ditto. its absurd to ignore the influence of rap
upon these
>>bands. you'd hafta be deaf to miss it.
>
>Then I can tell you Rage Against The Machine and Beastie Boys are
>just as much crap as the black rapper, as are Cypress Hill and
>House Of Pain too. Music without melody is crap, I don't care
>about the colour of who

I will say it again: you dont listen deep enough if you think rap
has no melody. Listen to Dre Day. Listen to Real Muthaphukkin G's.
Listen to Dre's remix of California Love. Listen to those songs
CAREFULLY, several times in a row. Turn down the volume and dont
try to make out the words, just listen to the flow. Then come back
and tell us about whether rap has melody or not.

>As for RHCP, well, they've written some nice songs like "Under The

>Bridge" and "Aeroplane", but I do NOT like their rap stuff.
>
>Geir Hongro
>
>http://www.uio.no/~hongro/engelsk.htm
>
>

Geir Hongro

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Sep 10, 1996, 3:00:00 AM9/10/96

to

oleg issers <eaz...@gnn.com> wrote:

>Now expalin why rap is shit and worthless....

Because it has no melody, and for no other reason.

Geir Hongro

http://www.uio.no/~hongro/engelsk.htm

Geir Hongro

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Sep 10, 1996, 3:00:00 AM9/10/96

to

I guess I have.
You can't play a rap song (including the vocal voice) on a piano,
even if you detune the piano.
Music that can't be played on a piano hasn't got melody.

Geir Hongro

http://www.uio.no/~hongro/engelsk.htm

ralph barnes

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Sep 10, 1996, 3:00:00 AM9/10/96

to

In article <513dhc$2...@o.online.no>, Geir Hongro <hon...@ils.uio.no> wrote:

>oleg issers <eaz...@gnn.com> wrote:
>
>>Now expalin why rap is shit and worthless....
>
>Because it has no melody, and for no other reason.
>
>Geir Hongro
>

Mr. Hongro, can you give me a rational explanation of why "no melody" =
"worthless"? Is there some sort of divine blessing on frequencies such as
261.6 Hz, 220.05 Hz, and 146.8 Hz (C4, A3, D3) that is not extended to 200
Hz, 250 Hz, and 300 Hz? Is dissonance evil or is it just not consonance?

If you look at a plot of music on many digital editors they will display
frequency on the y axis and time along the x axis (a spectrogram). Now
how is it that manipulating the occurences of the frequencies on the y
axis is a "good" thing but that manipulating occurences of temporal
locations (rhythm) on the x axis is a "bad" thing?

Is it also worthless to create music by varying timbre rather than either
frequency or rhythm?

Melody is only one aspect of music. Saying that music without melody is
not music is about as intelligent as saying that a movie without the color
red in it is not an actual movie. A movie is generally a mixture of
colors, red being only one. Music is generally a mixture of elements,
melody being only one.

Kwesi Ako Kennedy

unread,

Sep 10, 1996, 3:00:00 AM9/10/96

to Geir Hongro

Geir Hongro wrote:
>
> oleg issers <eaz...@gnn.com> wrote:
>
> >Now expalin why rap is shit and worthless....
>
> Because it has no melody, and for no other reason.

OK, now site examples of Hip-Hop wihout melody. Not just blanket
statements but ACTUAL songs that you have listened to and construct a
CREDIBLE argument.

I PROMISE you it will be shot down. AGAIN.

NOt because you cannot understand how to apreciate rhythm driven songs
or you don't like violence and drug dealing lyrics (which btw are NOT
the end all and be all of Hip-Hop) but primarily because you lack the
creativity to see beyond the influence of your own little musical realm
of understanding. That's all. (I estamate this distance to be no
furhter than the end of your nose)

You've been trying to prove your point("rap is shit") but all you do is
bring up the superiority of Birtpop and it's use of melody the likes of
which have not ben seen since the Beatles.(ha! yeah right!).

Playing a keyboard and being a lover of melody in no way makes you large
enough to cross post to the universe while proclaiming certain musical
styles are worthless.

One would think you have gone and mistaken yourself for God or
something.

Later...

Kwesi Ako Kennedy

--
kake...@unity.ncsu.edu

Geir Hongro

unread,

Sep 11, 1996, 3:00:00 AM9/11/96

to

Kwesi Ako Kennedy <kake...@unity.ncsu.edu> wrote:
>Geir Hongro wrote:
>>
>> oleg issers <eaz...@gnn.com> wrote:
>>
>> >Now expalin why rap is shit and worthless....
>>
>> Because it has no melody, and for no other reason.
>
>OK, now site examples of Hip-Hop wihout melody. Not just blanket
>statements but ACTUAL songs that you have listened to and construct a
>CREDIBLE argument.

"Don't Belive The Hype" by Public Enemy, to name the less melodic
band of all (not even the backing has a melody).

If you aren't able to play the vocal line on a piano the songs has
not got a melody.

Geir Hongro

http://www.uio.no/~hongro/engelsk.htm

Kwesi Ako Kennedy

unread,

Sep 11, 1996, 3:00:00 AM9/11/96

to Geir Hongro

Geir Hongro wrote:

> >OK, now site examples of Hip-Hop wihout melody. Not just blanket
> >statements but ACTUAL songs that you have listened to and construct a
> >CREDIBLE argument.
>
> "Don't Belive The Hype" by Public Enemy, to name the less melodic
> band of all (not even the backing has a melody).

PE is not necessarily a band. A group of recording artist but a band?
Nahhh. Check the Roots.

> If you aren't able to play the vocal line on a piano the songs has
> not got a melody.

In your opinion.

But first let's get to the point of how this songs's lack of melody
makes it "shit" to the rest of the world.

Now I agree, there's no melody in this at all. BUT the point of this
song is not to make a melody. It's to make a STATEMENT. You see all
songs aren't about makeing an arrangement of notes in order for you to
reproduce them on a keyboard and this is one of them. What this song IS
about is not falling for the simple explanations and half truths that
are used to generalize Hip-Hop.

Sound familiar? Listen to the lyrics.

Oh, that's right the lyrics in a song are meaningless.

Well in the context of Hip-Hop (rock too), lyrics are apart of the
FOUNDATION of a song. Note that I'm referring to some of the truly
great Hip-Hop jams out there not necessarily the comercialized bull that
you get on the radio and MTV.

Try harder than this.
Good choice though. Maybe if you got the message PE was trying to tell
you you would understand.

Kwesi Ako Kennedy

PS: I'm quite sure E. Van Halen would be able to find a way to
reproduce the sound of the lyrics to this song though. Not on a PIANO
but he is capable of doing some ill shit with a guitar.

--
kake...@unity.ncsu.edu

Mista Ryte

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Sep 12, 1996, 3:00:00 AM9/12/96

to

Somebody needed a definition of hip-hop and melody. Here it is, from a
fourth year math major:

Melody (the mathematical definition: One of the two main elements of
music, the other being HARMONY.
Melody is the horizontal part of music, the right to left, the tune you
hum to yourself.
Harmony, on the other hand, is the vertical part of music, the up and
down, the combination of treble, bass, and other clefs to create a UNIQUE
melody.

Hip-hop: The culture founded upon the elements of:
1) DJin'
2) MCin'
3) B-boyin' (or breakdancing)
4) Graf(fitti)

and there you have it.

From that definition above, I'd say that the music of hip-hop is
melodic in nature. Or are hearing the people humming
something different?

--
Mista Ryte
Check my 'net site: http://fulton.seas.virginia.edu/~rww6g
"UVA is not a charm school..." -Jodie Foster,
SILENCE OF THE LAMBS

Andy Garcia

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Sep 12, 1996, 3:00:00 AM9/12/96

to

Geir Hongro <hon...@ils.uio.no> wrote:

>oleg issers <eaz...@gnn.com> wrote:

>>Now expalin why rap is shit and worthless....

>Because it has no melody, and for no other reason.

Now explain Geir why you are not worthless. And why u shouldn't be
mail-bombed off the face of the earth.

Andy Garcia

unread,

Sep 12, 1996, 3:00:00 AM9/12/96

to

Geir Hongro <hon...@ils.uio.no> wrote:

>Kwesi Ako Kennedy <kake...@unity.ncsu.edu> wrote:

>>Geir Hongro wrote:
>>>
>>> oleg issers <eaz...@gnn.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> >Now expalin why rap is shit and worthless....
>>>
>>> Because it has no melody, and for no other reason.
>>

>>OK, now site examples of Hip-Hop wihout melody. Not just blanket
>>statements but ACTUAL songs that you have listened to and construct a
>>CREDIBLE argument.

>"Don't Belive The Hype" by Public Enemy, to name the less melodic
>band of all (not even the backing has a melody).

>If you aren't able to play the vocal line on a piano the songs has
>not got a melody.

Moron. We are talking about rapping not singing. Therefore the "vocal
line" is not supposed to be melodic or harmonised etc.

We are talking about the music used in hip-hop, NOT the vocals you
idiot.

Andy Garcia

unread,

Sep 12, 1996, 3:00:00 AM9/12/96

to

Geir Hongro <hon...@ils.uio.no> wrote:

>You can't play a rap song (including the vocal voice) on a piano,
>even if you detune the piano.
>Music that can't be played on a piano hasn't got melody.

I've found a new test for melody. Any music which can't be played on
Geir Hongro's head has got melody.

Geir kindly let us know the exact location of your head so we can test
this theory out.

Andy Garcia

unread,

Sep 12, 1996, 3:00:00 AM9/12/96

to

Geir Hongro <hon...@ils.uio.no> wrote:

>rba...@postbox.acs.ohio-state.edu (ralph barnes) wrote:

>>Even though I don't dig melodic tunes I don't think that we >should burn
>>all Mozart, Cole Porter, Beatles, and Miles Davis albums.

>I don't think we should burn all rap albums either. Just don't let
>there be more of them.

Why are u can stop them being produced. You and whose army?

>>You should be able to find a
>>shiteload of non-rap/techno albums in a record store. Once you >have
>>listened to all the ones they have in stock you can then ask them >to order
>>you some.

>To get quality melodic music in Norway I mostly have to order at
>once, which is quite irritating.
>It took me a YEAR to find the debut album by Dodgy in a Norwegian
>record store.

No-one forces you to live in Norway. Why don't u start your own import
company?

>>I estimate that if you listen to all the non-rap/techno albums
>>produced in the last 10 years it would still be listening to them >in the
>>next century. There really is no shortage you know.

>The problem is that most of it is produced by old farts. Before
>the arrival of britpop there were quite few NEW groups writing
>quality melodic music. (I don't consider Ace Of Base or Mariah
>Carey quality)

>>If any type of music should be de-emphasized it would have to be >melodic
>>music. It has dominated Western culture for 2 millenia or so >while rhythm
>>has been melody's poor step child. In a comprehensive Western >(or world)
>>library of music albums, the vast majority (I would guess 95%) >would be
>>melodic. The other 5% would be comprised of experimental stuff >from Jim
>>Cage, K. Stockhausen and techno tunes (among others).

>Ten years ago more than 99% of all pop/rock had a fully melodic
>tune. I want that age back.

>>Melodic music has been done to death. Most melodic stuff I hear is old
>>and tired. Oasis, Suede, Pearl Jam etc. really haven't done anything with
>>melody beyond that which was done by Beethoven have they?

>Beethoven didn't write EXACTLY the same tunes, that's the
>difference. (Still I HATE Pearl Jam, because their music is too
>much R&B and not melodic enough, that's my opinion though.)

>> I think it is
>>great that a neglected avenue of artistic exploration is finally being
>>tapped!

>Now I think it's tapped enough. Although they may not be all
>non-melodic songs sound similar.

>> How narrow of Mr. Hongro to want to elimate it. Perhaps we
>>should only allow realism in art and get rid of abstract-expressionism,
>>cubism and surrealism because Mr. Hongro doesn't think that anything
>>besides realism is really "art."

>Talking about painting, I think the point of painting as an art
>form was very much gone the day the colour photography was
>invented.

This really shows how ignorant you are. I'm certainly not into "art"
but at least I can appreciate there is a distinct purpose an raison
d'etre for painting as an art-form post-photography.

>Abstract-expressionism looks like children's paintings.

Well your posts reads like a child's outpourings.

Jeff Davis

unread,

Sep 12, 1996, 3:00:00 AM9/12/96

to

Let this thread die!

andyg...@uk.pipeline.com (Andy Garcia) wrote:

>Geir Hongro <hon...@ils.uio.no> wrote:

>>rba...@postbox.acs.ohio-state.edu (ralph barnes) wrote:

----------
My list of live and rare recordings by NIN, Nirvana,
Marilyn Manson, HOLE, etc...
http://www.netcom.com/~dainbrmg/bootlist/
----------
dain...@ix.netcom.com
----------

WeeSaul

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Sep 12, 1996, 3:00:00 AM9/12/96

to

Geir Hongro <hon...@ils.uio.no> wrote:

>cow...@ix.netcom.com (Persinthia Lawdro) wrote:
>>In article <50rfid$6...@o.online.no>, hon...@ils.uio.no says...
>>
>>

>>>When people like Mozart and Bach composed their music they mostly
>>>had not lyrics at all, and if they had lyrics they were basically
>>>SHIT.
>>

>>Ever heard of Opera???

>Check out the plot in Don Giovanni, and I think you'll find out it
>isn't much of a plot at all.

>On the other hand: What is lyrics? Mozart was a MUSICAL genius
>although his lyrics, or stories, were shit.

>Geir Hongro

>http://www.uio.no/~hongro/

Why does Don Giovanni need a plot? A plot... when did any musical
composition need a plot? Except the music for what it is.... music!!
Some people have their head up their ass and think they've found their
brain!!!

Geir Hongro

unread,

Sep 12, 1996, 3:00:00 AM9/12/96

to

WeeSaul wrote:

>Why does Don Giovanni need a plot? A plot... when did any musical
>composition need a plot? Except the music for what it is.... music!!

I agree, that's why I used Don Giovanni as an example that music
may be great although the lyrics are shit.

Geir Hongro

http://www.uio.no/~hongro/engelsk.htm

JILL

unread,

Sep 12, 1996, 3:00:00 AM9/12/96

to ji...@buffnet.net

>
> either one, anyone that rides on the crowd...
>
> jiff
>
> do the world a favor, kill a crowdsurfer.

Yeah, you can just go to hell....

gcletus

unread,

Sep 13, 1996, 3:00:00 AM9/13/96

to

I seem to recal LL Cool J using piano in his unplugged version of "I'm
gonna knock you out" on MTV. So there.

On Thu, 12 Sep 1996, Andy Garcia wrote:

Geir Hongro

unread,

Sep 13, 1996, 3:00:00 AM9/13/96

to

gcletus <bd8...@binghamton.edu> wrote:
>
>I seem to recal LL Cool J using piano in his unplugged version of "I'm
>gonna knock you out" on MTV. So there.

I guess he rapped on top of it, didn't he.

As long as the rap part ("melody" line) cannot be played on a
piano the songs haven't got a melody.

I'm not gonna get into the "real instruments" argument.
Of course rap (the backing) may be played by "real instruments"
On the other hand: What's wrong with synths?

Geir Hongro

http://www.uio.no/~hongro/engelsk.htm

Mista Ryte

unread,

Sep 15, 1996, 3:00:00 AM9/15/96

to

We are dealing with a man who has never heard the Roots or the Fugees play
live...

Mista Ryte

unread,

Sep 17, 1996, 3:00:00 AM9/17/96

to

Hey Geir, how the hell do you pronounce Geir anyway?

I was referring to the fact that the Roots and Fugees play live
instruments predominantly and rarely use the turntable. You know, the
thing that looks like a record player.

And personally, my favporite Fugees song is Vocab off Blunted on Reality,
they first album.

Hasta el muerto...

FLICK

unread,

Sep 17, 1996, 3:00:00 AM9/17/96

to

-=> Quoting Mista Ryte to All <=-

MR> We are dealing with a man who has never heard the Roots or the Fugees
MR> play live...

Fugees suck no matter what

... Backup not found: (A)bort (R)etry (S)lap nearest innocent bystander.

___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20

Geir Hongro

unread,

Sep 17, 1996, 3:00:00 AM9/17/96

to

rw...@faraday.clas.Virginia.EDU (Mista Ryte) wrote:
>We are dealing with a man who has never heard the Roots or the Fugees play
>live...

If you call "Killing Me Softly" (a bloody cover version by the
way, I hate all those cover version!) rap i don't think rap fans
would agree with you....
Stuff like "Fu-gee-la" suck as much as all other rap...

Geir Hongro

http://www.uio.no/~hongro/engelsk.htm

Persinthia Lawdro

unread,

Sep 18, 1996, 3:00:00 AM9/18/96

to

In article <DxwC...@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU>,
rw...@faraday.clas.Virginia.EDU says...

>And personally, my favporite Fugees song is Vocab off Blunted on Reality,
>they first album.

Yes...That's a great song. I wish there was more acoustic styled hip-hop out
there. Do you know of any???

PS - Don't bother arguing with Geir...he's a very close-minded individual.

David Perle

unread,

Sep 18, 1996, 3:00:00 AM9/18/96

to

fl...@midian.apana.org.au (FLICK) wrote:

> -=> Quoting Mista Ryte to All <=-
>
> MR> We are dealing with a man who has never heard the Roots or the Fugees
> MR> play live...
>
> Fugees suck no matter what

YEAH MAN, WHY LISTEN TO SHIT OTHER THAN METAL...METAL RUULLLEEEZZZZZZ...
HIP HOP SUX MAN, THOSE DAMN BLACK PEOPLE!!!!

(in case anyone reading this has no brain, the previous text has been
complete sarcasm)

David

---------------
http://www.netcom.com/~dperle/nirvana (Current Version: 3.5)
Detailed Explanations For Why Tom Grant's "Kurt Cobain was Murdered!"
Theory Should Not Be Believed / Personal response from Courtney Love
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Iain Hynd

unread,

Oct 2, 1996, 3:00:00 AM10/2/96

to

Alessiana <Ales...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:

>hahahaha

>there was no rem
>there was no byrds
>there was no doors
>there was no dead
>there was no husker du
>there is no perry farrell
>there is no springsteen
>there is no neil young
>there was no sonic youth
>there was no pearl jam
>there sure as hell aint no hip hop
>there sure as hell ain't no beck
>there ain't no reznor
>all there ever was is brit pop and new wave lets not forget that punk
>actually evolved dually on both sides of the atlantic, ok?? oh, and
>also US hair bands were mirrored in brit glam/new wave crap as well

>oh, and elvis.... sorry about that we do still have elvis
>nice of you to mention dylan
>considering that so many of his songs
>were ripped off by the brits
>guess you couldn't miss that huh?

>OASIS??? conquer the usa.... we're still laughing
>at the lyric

>oh, and the smiths? talk about self hatred...really man.
>not only that but his poetry couldn't be more disconnected from the
>musical content if he'd written them separatly in a vacuum

>want some lyric? read some vedder moments in my tree lets see if
>lyrical content matches musical content consistenly in all his work

>ahhhh

>yup

>aless

Yikes, what's going on?
Iain.

mh...@taynet.co.uk
"Well if you know the
feeling baby peel me off
the ceiling baby" Smart Dogs

kitara fallenstar

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Oct 3, 1996, 3:00:00 AM10/3/96

to

In article <Pine.OSF.3.91.960909174452.30807D-
100...@nimbus.ocis.temple.edu>,
jgab...@nimbus.ocis.temple.edu says...
> I was just wondering what everbody's definition of melody
and hip hop is?
> Cuz maybe y'all could tell this person Geir, or whatever
his name is, to
> open his eyes and see hip hop for what it really is.

Isn't hip-hop, or anything subjective, only what an
individual makes it?

who am i?

unread,

Oct 8, 1996, 3:00:00 AM10/8/96

to

end this thread now!!!!!

despayre

unread,

Oct 13, 1996, 3:00:00 AM10/13/96

to Paula, ser...@earthlink.net

Does your computer come equipped with a delete button?
You could mark the *entire* thread as "read" and you wouldn't have to
read *anything* that is of no interest to you. Just because you don't
want to read this, doesn't mean that others aren't willing to
participate.
Next time you want to censor the newsgroup, press delete instead, it'll
be just as if you never received it.
It's quite like magic!

Paula wrote:
>
> NO SHIT i am fucking tired of seeing TUPAC IS DEAD AND FUCKING GLAD 200
> times in this newsgroup!!! it has nothing that im interested in
>
> who am i? <ser...@earthlink.net> wrote in article
> <325AA2...@earthlink.net>...
> > end this thread now!!!!!
> >

oleg issers

unread,

Oct 18, 1996, 3:00:00 AM10/18/96

to

In article <546apo$r...@newsgate.dircon.co.uk> Dave Shanley wrote:
>Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 06:09:05 GMT
>From: red...@dircon.co.uk (Dave Shanley)
>Newsgroups:
>
alt.rap,alt.music.techno,alt.music.pearl-jam,alt.music.nirvana,alt.m
usic.s
>ilverchair,alt.music.oasis,alt.music.uk,alt.music.alternative.femal
e,alt.mu
>Subject: Re: HIP HOP IS FOR IDIOTS
>
>Sod all this shit, hiphop, rap, rave, dance, and all that shit is
>CrAPPPPPPPPPP alternative Rulez, and all other music sucks, metal
and
>grunge are the best forms of music that there is.
>
>
>

Just shows how dumb some people are....
>
>
>
>
>Ais...@news.salford.ac.uk (Dog Biz) wrote:
>
>>In article <53v1o2$p...@news1.voicenet.com>, bil...@voicenet.com
wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>ALTERNATIVE MUSIC IS SO STUPID!!! YOU NEED TO STOP PREACHIN'
ABOUT YOU
>>>BUNK TYPE MUSIC
>>>You said:CUZ IT AIN'T WORTH GETTIN' EVERYONE THAT LOVES HIP HOP
AND
>>>RAP AFTER YOU, YOU KNOW WHAT
>>>You said:I'M SAYIN' -G- ???? YOU BETTER WATCH OUT WRITIN' AND TALKIN'
>>>ALL DAT TALK CUZ WHEN THE
>>>You said:REAL -G-'S AND HUSTLAS GET A HOLD OF YOU , YOU WON'T LIKE
>>>IT!!!! I'M JUST TRYIN' TO KEEP
>>>You said:IT REAL FOR ALL MY PEEPS AROUND THE WAY. PEAZ OUT- G-SHORT
>>>
>>>
>>>Hello??? english please?? what the fuck is this jibberish shit??
>>>
>
>>I like Hip-Hop music. I like Pink Floyd too. I like Stravinsky. Take
>>That are alright to dance to. Madonna has produced some nice songs.
>>Frank Zappa is a genius. Actually, come to think of it - I like music.
>>Limiting yourself to one particular style sounds idiotic to me (and
> boring).
>
>>One Size Fits All.
>
>
oleg issers

check out the Unofficial NWO Homepage at
http://members.gnn.com/eazyrip/nwo.htm

A HISTORY OF POP

Simon Clarke

Ghost Face Killer

tagyerit

Adnan

Alexander Casti

Alessiana

Ghost Face Fucker

superfly

Alessiana

Spaceman

Alessiana

n

n

Jiff

superfly

superfly

Geir Hongro

Scott Davis

Tim

Adnan

Spaceman

*dirt grrrl*

superfly

Geir Hongro

Geir Hongro

superfly

superfly

superfly

Mike Breen

joshua nathaniel king

matt robinson

Jeremy Brezovan

Persinthia Lawdro

Doug Melcher

Alessiana

Carpus Keith

Andy Garcia

Andy Garcia

Geir Hongro

Geir Hongro

Geir Hongro

torero

joshua nathaniel king

Andy Garcia

Andy Garcia

Geir Hongro

Persinthia Lawdro

Alessiana

Jiff

Jonny Larsen

Andy Garcia

Alessiana

Geir Hongro

TagoMago

Polar Bear

Scott Bryant

AaRoNmAgRaM

Ja'Net Gabriel

torero

oleg issers

oleg issers

Geir Hongro

Geir Hongro

ralph barnes

Kwesi Ako Kennedy

Geir Hongro

Kwesi Ako Kennedy

Mista Ryte

Andy Garcia

Andy Garcia

Andy Garcia

Andy Garcia

Jeff Davis

WeeSaul

Geir Hongro

JILL

gcletus

Geir Hongro

Mista Ryte

dirt grrrl