Courtney paid Allen Wrench to kill Kurt
Melissa
like a suicide. I dont care what others believe it is my opinion and I
am sticking to it. I also believe that Courtney had the little
greenhouse/garage building torn down where Kurt's body was because she
didn't want someone to find something unusual in their.
Melissa :)~
Steve Allen
(or hired someone) but I do think she's a bitch.
Melissa <Daizee...@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:19927-39...@storefull-107.iap.bryant.webtv.net...
Dr. Poot
In article <19927-39...@storefull-107.iap.bryant.webtv.net>,
Melissa <Daizee...@webtv.net> wrote:
> I believe that Courtney had Allen Wrench to kill Kurt and make it look
> like a suicide. I dont care what others believe it is my opinion and I
> am sticking to it. I also believe that Courtney had the little
> greenhouse/garage building torn down where Kurt's body was because she
> didn't want someone to find something unusual in their.
>
> Melissa :)~
--
--Lane-->
underwhelming millions everyday
http://thefragile.home.mindspring.com
... alli
>
> I believe that Courtney had Allen Wrench to kill Kurt and make it look
> like a suicide. I dont care what others believe it is my opinion and I
> am sticking to it. I also believe that Courtney had the little
> greenhouse/garage building torn down where Kurt's body was because she
> didn't want someone to find something unusual in their.
>
> Melissa :)~
that's nice for you.
--
*alli
{ http://anxious.cjb.net }
[underneath blue skies]
[beautiful empty dying]
coyo...@my-deja.com
on that film. There are some real sources of information about the
case which you can find.
Andrew
In article <8e86cp$4...@cheeseball.ebtech.net>,
"Steve Allen" <ste...@ebtech.net> wrote:
> did you see the movie kurt and courtney? I don't think courtney
killed him
> (or hired someone) but I do think she's a bitch.
>
> Melissa <Daizee...@webtv.net> wrote in message
> news:19927-39...@storefull-107.iap.bryant.webtv.net...
> > I believe that Courtney had Allen Wrench to kill Kurt and make it
look
> > like a suicide. I dont care what others believe it is my opinion
and I
> > am sticking to it. I also believe that Courtney had the little
> > greenhouse/garage building torn down where Kurt's body was because
she
> > didn't want someone to find something unusual in their.
> >
> > Melissa :)~
> >
>
>
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Brian W. Peterson
>> like a suicide. I dont care what others believe it is my opinion and I
>> am sticking to it. I also believe that Courtney had the little
>> greenhouse/garage building torn down where Kurt's body was because she
>> didn't want someone to find something unusual in their.
>>
>> Melissa :)~
>that's nice for you.
Maybe I'm just blanking out right now, but who in the hell is Allen Wrench?
-------------------------
To: You
From: Brian
-------------------------
The Nirvana Information Archive
http://members.aol.com/WPeter4105/index.html
ICQ - # 7365533
-------------------------
Beatle4566
bickering will not bring Kurt back. Just remember him always and hold his
music and talent in the highest regard.
Maachanto no Remon
>I wouldn't go basing my opinion about whether or not she was involved
>on that film. There are some real sources of information about the
>case which you can find.
Yeah, like McDonalds.
-Katie
The 'POP' Snack is so servieeable to children's snack
because of its softness and taste popped from the main
ingredient of the snack rice.
LifeDespiteGod
of fucking conspiracy theorists... is this the best you can do? at least write
something that makes me blush.
i see dead people...
L
James Cascading Gently In Leather
>> like a suicide. I dont care what others believe it is my opinion and I
>> am sticking to it. I also believe that Courtney had the little
>> greenhouse/garage building torn down where Kurt's body was because she
>> didn't want someone to find something unusual in their.
>>
>> Melissa :)~
>
>--Lane-->
>
Nope, but my nephew will turn twelve in a year. It seems like just yesterday he
was born. *sniff sniff*
:: James Dickie Greenleaf ::
Apply topical Sporange ointment liberally.
Melora
"Melissa" <Daizee...@webtv.net> wrote
> I believe that Courtney had Allen Wrench to kill Kurt and make it look
> like a suicide.
Who the hell is Allen Wrench?
... alli
>
> >> I believe that Courtney had Allen Wrench to kill Kurt and make it look
> >> am sticking to it. I also believe that Courtney had the little
> >> greenhouse/garage building torn down where Kurt's body was because she
> >> didn't want someone to find something unusual in their.
> >>
> >> Melissa :)~
>
>
>
was wondering that too..
Darren Ripley
"... alli" wrote:
> "Brian W. Peterson" wrote:
> >
> > >> I believe that Courtney had Allen Wrench to kill Kurt and make it look
> > >> like a suicide. I dont care what others believe it is my opinion and I
> > >> am sticking to it. I also believe that Courtney had the little
> > >> greenhouse/garage building torn down where Kurt's body was because she
> > >> didn't want someone to find something unusual in their.
> > >>
> > >> Melissa :)~
> >
> > >that's nice for you.
> >
> > Maybe I'm just blanking out right now, but who in the hell is Allen Wrench?
> >
>
> was wondering that too..
I have never heard of allen wrench. except for the tool allen wrench
Brian W. Peterson
>> >> like a suicide. I dont care what others believe it is my opinion and I
>> >> am sticking to it. I also believe that Courtney had the little
>> >> greenhouse/garage building torn down where Kurt's body was because she
>> >> didn't want someone to find something unusual in their.
>> >>
>> >> Melissa :)~
>>
>> >that's nice for you.
>>
>> Maybe I'm just blanking out right now, but who in the hell is Allen Wrench?
>>
>
>was wondering that too..
That post was so last week, I'm guessing it was just more crap.
rob...@hotmail.com
wrote:
>
>"Melissa" <Daizee...@webtv.net> wrote
>> I believe that Courtney had Allen Wrench to kill Kurt and make it look
>> like a suicide.
>
>Who the hell is Allen Wrench?
Allen Wrench is the person who Eldon Hoke named as Cobain's killer.
Hoke claimed to have told Love that he would not kill her husband, but
that he knew someone who would. That person, according to Hoke was
punk rock musician and vicious-tempered cage fighter, Allen Wrench.
rob...@hotmail.com
wrote:
>if you dont care what anyone thinks, why post it to a newsgroup? i am so sick
>of fucking conspiracy theorists... is this the best you can do? at least write
>something that makes me blush.
Melora
<rob...@hotmail.com> wrote
> Allen Wrench is the person who Eldon Hoke named as Cobain's killer.
> Hoke claimed to have told Love that he would not kill her husband, but
> that he knew someone who would. That person, according to Hoke was
> punk rock musician and vicious-tempered cage fighter, Allen Wrench.
Where is Allen Wrench now? Has he been run over by a train yet?
Melora
Melora
"Vote Your Uterus" <pes...@erols.com> wrote ...
> "Melora" <mel...@moscow.com> took three hits of acid
> and hallucinated the following scary-ass scenario:
> guy to live. Btw, is Eldon Hoke El duce? And how many punk rockers
> does it take to kill Kurt Cobain? ;)
I did a net search on good old Allen Wrench. He claims that he DID kill
Kurt and El Duce! For the publicity. Nice guy huh?
Robumz, why don't you forward this info to the SPD and Toby Amirault? You
just may end up saving Toby's life! Well, if it weren't for those other
demands on his list. This ain't gonna do anything about OJ (unless Al
confesses to those murders too).
http://www.pe.net/~awrench/killallen/killed.html
Melora
James Cascading Gently In Leather
>> >> punk rock musician and vicious-tempered cage fighter, Allen Wrench.
>> >
>> >Where is Allen Wrench now? Has he been run over by a train yet?
>> >
>> If not, then CL has to be innocent. There's no way she could allow the
>> guy to live. Btw, is Eldon Hoke El duce? And how many punk rockers
>> does it take to kill Kurt Cobain? ;)
>
>I did a net search on good old Allen Wrench. He claims that he DID kill
>Kurt and El Duce! For the publicity. Nice guy huh?
>
>Robumz, why don't you forward this info to the SPD and Toby Amirault? You
>just may end up saving Toby's life! Well, if it weren't for those other
>demands on his list. This ain't gonna do anything about OJ (unless Al
>confesses to those murders too).
>
>http://www.pe.net/~awrench/killallen/killed.html
>
>Melora
Boy that guy wishes he was GG so bad.
:: James Dickie Greenleaf ::
Please come back for more. Danke.
http://pub9.ezboard.com/bjamesjamesingcausehecan
rob...@hotmail.com
<pes...@erols.com> wrote:
>On Wed, 3 May 2000 21:15:12 -0700, "Melora" <mel...@moscow.com> took
>three hits of acid and hallucinated the following scary-ass scenario:
>
>>
>><rob...@hotmail.com> wrote
>>> Allen Wrench is the person who Eldon Hoke named as Cobain's killer.
>>> Hoke claimed to have told Love that he would not kill her husband, but
>>> that he knew someone who would. That person, according to Hoke was
>>> punk rock musician and vicious-tempered cage fighter, Allen Wrench.
>>
>>Where is Allen Wrench now? Has he been run over by a train yet?
>If not, then CL has to be innocent. There's no way she could allow the
>guy to live.
Nice logic.
>Btw, is Eldon Hoke El duce?
Yes.
>And how many punk rockers
>does it take to kill Kurt Cobain?
One.
rob...@hotmail.com
>I did a net search on good old Allen Wrench. He claims that he DID kill
>Kurt and El Duce! For the publicity. Nice guy huh?
>
>Robumz, why don't you forward this info to the SPD and Toby Amirault?
You assume that since you hadn't heard of Allen Wrench, his alleged
involvement in the case must be a newsflash to virtually everyone
involved. It isn't.
BTW, I don't claim to know whether Allen Wrench killed Kurt Cobain. I
only mentioned the Allen Wrench story because several people asked
about him in this thread.
Maachanto no Remon
>>And how many punk rockers
>>does it take to kill Kurt Cobain?
>
>One.
At least we agree about something.
-Katie
http://i-am-fish.virtualave.net
http://www.brunching.com/cgi/barjoke.cgi
rob...@hotmail.com
>
>I did a net search on good old Allen Wrench. He claims that he DID kill
>Kurt and El Duce! For the publicity. Nice guy huh?
>
Allen Wrench has not confessed to the killings. James is right though,
the guy ought to confess to posing as GG.
>
>http://www.pe.net/~awrench/killallen/killed.html
>
>Melora
>
>
>
>
James Cascading Gently In Leather
>>>Kurt and El Duce! For the publicity. Nice guy huh?
>>>
>>
>>Allen Wrench has not confessed to the killings. James is right though,
>>the guy ought to confess to posing as GG.
>>
>>>
>
>
>Dave..
>
Allin who?
Brian W. Peterson
>>>I did a net search on good old Allen Wrench. He claims that he DID kill
>>>>Kurt and El Duce! For the publicity. Nice guy huh?
>>>>
>>>
>>>Allen Wrench has not confessed to the killings. James is right though,
>>>the guy ought to confess to posing as GG.
>>>
>>>>
>>Allin?
>Allin who?
*knock knock*
-------------------------
To: You
From: Brian
-------------------------
The Nirvana Information Archive
http://members.aol.com/WPeter4105/index.html
-------------------------
Melora
<rob...@hotmail.com> wrote
Melora" <mel...@moscow.com> wrote:
>
> >I did a net search on good old Allen Wrench. He claims that he DID kill
> >Kurt and El Duce! For the publicity. Nice guy huh?
> >
>
> You assume that since you hadn't heard of Allen Wrench, his alleged
> involvement in the case must be a newsflash to virtually everyone
> involved. It isn't.
That's not rearlly true. I've seen El Duce mentioned all the time. But the
claim that Wrench is the person who did the hit job is not commonly known.
Most of those "Courtney Love is a Murderous Skank and Should Burn In Hell"
webpages imply that the nanny did it. Does your "Courtney Love is a
Murderous Skank and Should Burn In Hell" webpage identify Wrench as the hit
man? I did a net seach on Wrench/Cobain and there were very few hits. Why
is that when "Courtney Love is a Murderous Skank and Should Burn In Hell"
webpages are a dime a dozen?
I think you should stop bitching here and notify the SPD asap. You'll be a
hero.
Melora
rob...@hotmail.com
Peterson) wrote:
>>
>>>>I did a net search on good old Allen Wrench. He claims that he DID kill
>>>>>Kurt and El Duce! For the publicity. Nice guy huh?
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Allen Wrench has not confessed to the killings. James is right though,
>>>>the guy ought to confess to posing as GG.
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>Allin?
Yep.
rob...@hotmail.com
>
><rob...@hotmail.com> wrote
>Melora" <mel...@moscow.com> wrote:
>>
>> >I did a net search on good old Allen Wrench. He claims that he DID kill
>> >Kurt and El Duce! For the publicity. Nice guy huh?
>> >
>> >Robumz, why don't you forward this info to the SPD and Toby Amirault?
>>
>> You assume that since you hadn't heard of Allen Wrench, his alleged
>> involvement in the case must be a newsflash to virtually everyone
>> involved. It isn't.
>
>That's not rearlly true. I've seen El Duce mentioned all the time. But the
>claim that Wrench is the person who did the hit job is not commonly known.
The web page you posted the URL from has been online for at least a
couple of years.
>Most of those "Courtney Love is a Murderous Skank and Should Burn In Hell"
>webpages imply that the nanny did it. Does your "Courtney Love is a
>Murderous Skank and Should Burn In Hell" webpage identify Wrench as the hit
>man?
I don't have a web page. If I did make one on the Cobain case I would
discuss the Allen Wrench story and state the same thing I stated in
this thread: I am familiar with the story, but I don't know if Allen
Wrench committed the murder.
>I did a net seach on Wrench/Cobain and there were very few hits. Why
>is that when "Courtney Love is a Murderous Skank and Should Burn In Hell"
>webpages are a dime a dozen?
I am not interested in discussing whether she is a skank or whether
she should burn in God's eternal torture chamber o' non-believers,
murderers, and people who have unmarried sex.
Anyway, some sites do make reference to Allen Wrench, but as of yet,
there is not enough evidence to conclusively link him to the murder.
There is, however, plenty of evidence linking Love with the murder.
Therefore, she, rather than Allen Wrench, is the primary focus of most
Cobain murder web pages.
>I think you should stop bitching here and notify the SPD asap. You'll be a
>hero.
If simply providing the SPD with evidence were enough to reopen the
investigation, we would have seen Ms. Love on trial long ago. The SPD
knows damn well that they blew the first investigation, allowing Love
to get away with murder. They also know that their own negligence
(along with Love's murder of her husband) is responsible for spawning
a rash of "copycat" suicides.
The SPD brass values PR over justice, and does not want to take
responsibility for having botched such a high-profile, high-stakes
investigation.
At this point, the case will only be reopened when public outcry
leaves the SPD with no alternative but to turn the investigation over
to an outside investigative body such as the FBI.
>
>Melora
>
>
>
Brian W. Peterson
>leaves the SPD with no alternative but to turn the investigation over
>to an outside investigative body such as the FBI.
If there was a real reason to open the case up it would have happened by now.
LifeDespiteGod
it...
L
Tinkerhell
giving Seattle. I doubt that they even considered looking at any possiblity
other than suicide.
I bet Allen Wrench could walk in and confess and they wouldn't arrest him.
How would it look for the SPD to admit they screwed up such a big case?
It seems like cops screw up all the time anyway. Look at O.J. and Jonbenet.
Would it really be a big suprise if they messed up this one too?
>
>>At this point, the case will only be reopened when public outcry
>>leaves the SPD with no alternative but to turn the investigation over
>>to an outside investigative body such as the FBI.
>
Garry Sykes
>am sticking to it. I also believe that Courtney had the little
>greenhouse/garage building torn down where Kurt's body was because she
>didn't want someone to find something unusual in their.
You also can't spell, which kind of undermines any seriousness in your
argument.....seriously people, why can't Hole and Foo Fighters and Nirvana fans
live together in peace and harmony? The world would be so much easier and you'd
miss out on less great music.....
Garry
"A song is a beautiful lie"
Visit Wonderland: http://members.aol.com/grungebunny13/index.html
Brian W. Peterson
>now.
>The SPD thought of Kurt as just another junkie and didn't like the image he
>was
>giving Seattle. I doubt that they even considered looking at any possiblity
>other than suicide.
> I bet Allen Wrench could walk in and confess and they wouldn't arrest him.
>How would it look for the SPD to admit they screwed up such a big case?
>
>It seems like cops screw up all the time anyway. Look at O.J. and Jonbenet.
>Would it really be a big suprise if they messed up this one too?
You act like if the cops screw up, no matter how big the screw up and they find
out they are wrong they will do nothing. Well that is complete bullshit. The
cops did not fuck in up in OJ trial. That is the excuses that OJ's lawyers
used to get him off. Very good, high priced lawyers. Besides, the cops did
not let OJ free, the jury did.
Jon Benet's parents always have very good high priced lawyers keeping them out
of the court room, at least for now. But the cases you mention (OJ and Jon
Benet) are much different than Kurt's. In Kurt's case 95% of the murder
theories can be dismissed and have been dismissed in here countless times. I
can understand why you think what you think, but it does not make your ideas
right, no matter how much you believe them.
Bjorn Magnusson
in alt.music.nirvana,
lifedes...@aol.com (LifeDespiteGod) wrote:
> >At this point, the case will only be reopened when public outcry
> >leaves the SPD with no alternative but to turn the investigation over
> >to an outside investigative body such as the FBI.
>
> stop soiling this ng with your plentiful bullshit... i feel dirty just
> reading it...
You know, you could avoid reading them, and/or come up with some good
posts on your own.
--
Björn Magnusson
bjorn.m<at>home.se
This signature is under construction
Brian W. Peterson
>Who's there?
Allin?
Allin who?
rob...@hotmail.com
Peterson) wrote:
>>>If there was a real reason to open the case up it would have happened by
>>now.
>
>>The SPD thought of Kurt as just another junkie and didn't like the image he
>>was
>>giving Seattle. I doubt that they even considered looking at any possiblity
>>other than suicide.
>
>> I bet Allen Wrench could walk in and confess and they wouldn't arrest him.
>>How would it look for the SPD to admit they screwed up such a big case?
>>
>>It seems like cops screw up all the time anyway. Look at O.J. and Jonbenet.
>>Would it really be a big suprise if they messed up this one too?
>
>You act like if the cops screw up, no matter how big the screw up and they find
>out they are wrong they will do nothing.
It's true that the police _did not_ screw up in the OJ investigation,
and it may be true that the police are not to blame for Jonbenet
Ramsey's killer(s) remaining free, but the Seattle Police did very
clearly botch the Kurt Cobain investigation.
Even if you believe Kurt Cobain killed himself, you don't have to
believe the police report was correct when it stated, for example,
that Cobain had barricaded himself in the room (he hadn't). The SPD
made numerous errors in their (lack of) investigation. The SPD never
really investigated the death as a murder, and the chief medical
examiner's admittedly long-standing friendship with Love made for a
very obvious conflict of interest.
Conflict of interest, in and of itself, is often sufficient cause to
reopen a murder investigation. Numerous and significant
investigational errors are also grounds for the same. The two combined
would guarantee the reopening of almost any murder investigation.
_Almost_ any.
The SPD's numerous errors and oversights, although seemingly
unintentional, paint the image-conscious public servants in a very
unflattering and embarrassing light. A thorough and genuine
investigation was never performed, a rash of "copycat" suicides
resulted and continue to this day.
And yes, our friends in the LAPD were miles from Seattle when Cobain's
body turned up in the greenhouse. Yes, they did a thorough and
credible job of investigating their own high-profile, celebrity murder
case. So why then did deputy DA Gil Garcetti lose his job after
failing to earn a murder conviction for OJ? The answer is simple:
Politics as usual, just like in Seattle.
>In Kurt's case 95% of the murder
>theories can be dismissed and have been dismissed in here countless times.
That is not true.
rob...@hotmail.com
wrote:
>>I believe that Courtney had Allen Wrench to kill Kurt and make it look
>>like a suicide. I dont care what others believe it is my opinion and I
>>am sticking to it. I also believe that Courtney had the little
>>greenhouse/garage building torn down where Kurt's body was because she
>>didn't want someone to find something unusual in their.
>
>You also can't spell, which kind of undermines any seriousness in your
>argument.....seriously people, why can't Hole and Foo Fighters and Nirvana fans
>live together in peace and harmony? The world would be so much easier and you'd
>miss out on less great music...
That's like saying, "Why can't football fans just learn to Love OJ
Simpson? The world would be so much easier and you'd miss out on less
great football memories."
rob...@hotmail.com
>So why then did deputy DA Gil Garcetti lose his job after
>failing to earn a murder conviction for OJ? The answer is simple:
>Politics as usual, just like in Seattle.
This point seemed _way_ better before I realized Garcetti never left
office. Now it just kinda sucks.
Brian W. Peterson
>believe the police report was correct when it stated, for example,
>that Cobain had barricaded himself in the room (he hadn't). The SPD
>made numerous errors in their (lack of) investigation. The SPD never
>really investigated the death as a murder, and the chief medical
>examiner's admittedly long-standing friendship with Love made for a
>very obvious conflict of interest.
I understand that, but the barricade thing does not prove anything. No one was
at the house when Kurt killed himself, so why would he need to barricade
himself in? Even if the medical examiner was a friend of Courtney's do you
think he would risk losing his job, getting major jail time and covering up a
murder for a friend? I'm sorry, but I think I'd turn in my friends under those
circumstances.
>Conflict of interest, in and of itself, is often sufficient cause to
>reopen a murder investigation. Numerous and significant
>investigational errors are also grounds for the same. The two combined
>would guarantee the reopening of almost any murder investigation.
>_Almost_ any.
Conflict is not enough to open a investigation. Otherwise most criminal cases
would never ever be closed.
>The SPD's numerous errors and oversights, although seemingly
>unintentional, paint the image-conscious public servants in a very
>unflattering and embarrassing light. A thorough and genuine
>investigation was never performed, a rash of "copycat" suicides
>resulted and continue to this day.
No one forced anyone to copycat suicide Kurt. Those people had their own
problems and died for their own reasons. You sound like one of those people
who blames the entertainment industry for murders and suicides of young people.
Those people should have gotten help, and I am very sorry it is too late for
them now.
>And yes, our friends in the LAPD were miles from Seattle when Cobain's
>body turned up in the greenhouse. Yes, they did a thorough and
>credible job of investigating their own high-profile, celebrity murder
>case. So why then did deputy DA Gil Garcetti lose his job after
>failing to earn a murder conviction for OJ? The answer is simple:
>Politics as usual, just like in Seattle.
Once again the OJ case and this case are two different things handled in two
different places.
>>In Kurt's case 95% of the murder
>>theories can be dismissed and have been dismissed in here countless times.
>
>That is not true.
In my mind yes.
rob...@hotmail.com
Peterson) wrote:
>>Even if you believe Kurt Cobain killed himself, you don't have to
>>believe the police report was correct when it stated, for example,
>>that Cobain had barricaded himself in the room (he hadn't). The SPD
>>made numerous errors in their (lack of) investigation. The SPD never
>>really investigated the death as a murder, and the chief medical
>>examiner's admittedly long-standing friendship with Love made for a
>>very obvious conflict of interest.
>
>I understand that, but the barricade thing does not prove anything. No one was
>at the house when Kurt killed himself, so why would he need to barricade
>himself in?
I agree that the barricade/non-barricade screw up does not prove it
was a murder; it just proves that the investigation was flawed, and
that therefore the official suicide verdict was based on flawed
evidence.
>Even if the medical examiner was a friend of Courtney's do you
>think he would risk losing his job, getting major jail time and covering up a
>murder for a friend? I'm sorry, but I think I'd turn in my friends under those
>circumstances.
I don't think the chief medical examiner intentionally covered
anything up during the initial investigation. I do think that he was
possibly manipulated by his old friend, Courtney Love, and that his
friendship with Love compromised his objectivity in investigating
Cobain's death. I don't think he intended to help her get away with
murder; it was an accident.
>
>>Conflict of interest, in and of itself, is often sufficient cause to
>>reopen a murder investigation. Numerous and significant
>>investigational errors are also grounds for the same. The two combined
>>would guarantee the reopening of almost any murder investigation.
>>_Almost_ any.
>
>Conflict is not enough to open a investigation. Otherwise most criminal cases
>would never ever be closed.
Not just _conflict_, but conflict _of interest_. If an investigator is
friends with the prime suspect, that presents a clear conflict of
interest.
>
>>The SPD's numerous errors and oversights, although seemingly
>>unintentional, paint the image-conscious public servants in a very
>>unflattering and embarrassing light. A thorough and genuine
>>investigation was never performed, a rash of "copycat" suicides
>>resulted and continue to this day.
>
>No one forced anyone to copycat suicide Kurt.
>Those people had their own
>problems and died for their own reasons. You sound like one of those people
>who blames the entertainment industry for murders and suicides of young people.
> Those people should have gotten help, and I am very sorry it is too late for
>them now.
I agree that people need to take responsibility for their own actions,
but the SPD needs to do the same.
Brian W. Peterson
>>at the house when Kurt killed himself, so why would he need to barricade
>>himself in?
>
>I agree that the barricade/non-barricade screw up does not prove it
>was a murder; it just proves that the investigation was flawed, and
>that therefore the official suicide verdict was based on flawed
>evidence.
Yeah, but it is a non important flaw. I mean if you pick apart most police
investigations you'll probably find insignificant flaws in many of them.
>>Even if the medical examiner was a friend of Courtney's do you
>>think he would risk losing his job, getting major jail time and covering up
>a
>>murder for a friend? I'm sorry, but I think I'd turn in my friends under
>those
>>circumstances.
>
>I don't think the chief medical examiner intentionally covered
>anything up during the initial investigation. I do think that he was
>possibly manipulated by his old friend, Courtney Love, and that his
>friendship with Love compromised his objectivity in investigating
>Cobain's death. I don't think he intended to help her get away with
>murder; it was an accident.
I think you are holding on to this "friend of Courtney's" thing a bit too much.
He could have spoken up anytime if he realized that he accidently helped
Courtney get away with murder. Why has he not spoken up since if he thought
something might be wrong? The whole world isn't afraid of Courtney you know.
>>>Conflict of interest, in and of itself, is often sufficient cause to
>>>reopen a murder investigation. Numerous and significant
>>>investigational errors are also grounds for the same. The two combined
>>>would guarantee the reopening of almost any murder investigation.
>>>_Almost_ any.
>>
>>Conflict is not enough to open a investigation. Otherwise most criminal
>cases
>>would never ever be closed.
>
>Not just _conflict_, but conflict _of interest_. If an investigator is
>friends with the prime suspect, that presents a clear conflict of
>interest.
The whole Seattle Police Department was not friends with Courtney. You make it
sound like she had the whole police department wrapped around her finger. That
person you mention is one of many people put on the case I'm sure.
>>No one forced anyone to copycat suicide Kurt.
>>Those people had their own
>>problems and died for their own reasons. You sound like one of those people
>>who blames the entertainment industry for murders and suicides of young
>people.
>> Those people should have gotten help, and I am very sorry it is too late
>for
>>them now.
>
>I agree that people need to take responsibility for their own actions,
>but the SPD needs to do the same.
They would if they botched up the investigation where it made a significant
difference in the case, but they didn't.
rob...@hotmail.com
<pes...@erols.com> wrote:
>On Wed, 10 May 2000 01:34:31 GMT, rob...@hotmail.com took three hits
>of acid and hallucinated the following scary-ass scenario:
>
>>On 09 May 2000 16:04:40 GMT, wpete...@aol.commentator (Brian W.
>>Peterson) wrote:
>>
>>>>Even if you believe Kurt Cobain killed himself, you don't have to
>>>>believe the police report was correct when it stated, for example,
>>>>that Cobain had barricaded himself in the room (he hadn't). The SPD
>>>>made numerous errors in their (lack of) investigation. The SPD never
>>>>really investigated the death as a murder, and the chief medical
>>>>examiner's admittedly long-standing friendship with Love made for a
>>>>very obvious conflict of interest.
>>>
>>>I understand that, but the barricade thing does not prove anything. No one was
>>>at the house when Kurt killed himself, so why would he need to barricade
>>>himself in?
>>
>>I agree that the barricade/non-barricade screw up does not prove it
>>was a murder; it just proves that the investigation was flawed, and
>>that therefore the official suicide verdict was based on flawed
>>evidence.
>
>Perhaps they said he barricaded himself in because the SPD had to
>break in, in order to gain access. In any case, the verdict wasn't
>reached with this piece of non-crucial information.
It was absolutely crucial. The police report said the door was wedged
shut from the inside, which would have made it impossible for Cobain's
murderer to escape. That piece of evidence was a very strong
indication of suicide; unfortunately it was completely inaccurate.
Yet according to you it was insignificant.
>
>>
>>>Even if the medical examiner was a friend of Courtney's do you
>>>think he would risk losing his job, getting major jail time and covering up a
>>>murder for a friend? I'm sorry, but I think I'd turn in my friends under those
>>>circumstances.
>>
>>I don't think the chief medical examiner intentionally covered
>>anything up during the initial investigation. I do think that he was
>>possibly manipulated by his old friend, Courtney Love, and that his
>>friendship with Love compromised his objectivity in investigating
>>Cobain's death. I don't think he intended to help her get away with
>>murder; it was an accident.
>
>So, if he noticed something amiss, he wouldn't say anything because he
>knew Love?
No, I'm saying his friendship with Love could have hindered his
objectivity.
>Why would he do that... CL was in LA.
Again, I don't think the chief medical examiner tried to botch the
investigation; it was an accident.
>If the guy thought
>there was foul play he would've spoken up immediately - he's friends
>with Love, right?
Yes, that's my point.
>. After all, it wouldn't have implicated Love. She
>was in LA!
>So, if anything, the coroner was even more tenacious.
Oh boy.
>Wouldn't you want the murderer of yer friend caught? Or do you think
>he phoned Love first and asked her what he should do...?
I don't know what contact the two had during the investigation.
>Puh-lease.
>No, there was no conflict unless it meant that he was even more
>careful in his diagnosis. I mean, wouldn't you be?
No. If I were the chief medical examiner assigned to a murder/suicide
scene, and I was friends with one or more parties possibly involved, I
would resign from the investigation as would most police and
detectives faced with the same situation. It is their legal
obligation.
>
>>
>>>
>>>>Conflict of interest, in and of itself, is often sufficient cause to
>>>>reopen a murder investigation. Numerous and significant
>>>>investigational errors are also grounds for the same. The two combined
>>>>would guarantee the reopening of almost any murder investigation.
>>>>_Almost_ any.
>>>
>>>Conflict is not enough to open a investigation. Otherwise most criminal cases
>>>would never ever be closed.
>>
>>Not just _conflict_, but conflict _of interest_. If an investigator is
>>friends with the prime suspect, that presents a clear conflict of
>>interest.
>
>No, it doesn't. He wasn't on the phone with Love when he was examining
>the body and for the rest, Read above.
If you believe the previous sentence, then you would also believe that
if Al Cowlings (OJ's buddy) were a detective, it would be perfectly
responsible, ethical and credible for him to have been the lead
investigator on the Brown/Goldman murder, so long as Cowlings wasn't
on the phone with OJ while investigating.
>>
>>>
>>>>The SPD's numerous errors and oversights, although seemingly
>>>>unintentional, paint the image-conscious public servants in a very
>>>>unflattering and embarrassing light. A thorough and genuine
>>>>investigation was never performed, a rash of "copycat" suicides
>>>>resulted and continue to this day.
>>>
>>>No one forced anyone to copycat suicide Kurt.
>>>Those people had their own
>>>problems and died for their own reasons. You sound like one of those people
>>>who blames the entertainment industry for murders and suicides of young people.
>>> Those people should have gotten help, and I am very sorry it is too late for
>>>them now.
>>
>>I agree that people need to take responsibility for their own actions,
>>but the SPD needs to do the same.
>
>The SPD is not responsible for any copy cat suicide provoked by Kurt's
>death.
Not directly, no.
Melora
<rob...@hotmail.com> wrote
> It was absolutely crucial. The police report said the door was wedged
> shut from the inside, which would have made it impossible for Cobain's
> murderer to escape. That piece of evidence was a very strong
> indication of suicide; unfortunately it was completely inaccurate.
>
> Yet according to you it was insignificant.
Well, there was the suicide note and his history.
> >The SPD is not responsible for any copy cat suicide provoked
> > by Kurt's death.
>
> Not directly, no.
Kurt was responsible. But I bet there are a lot more suicides caused by
people like you who are so in denial about the connection between depression
and suicide that you can't accept the truth. If a friend of yours dropped a
hint about feeling suicidal, you'd probably ignore it. Then after he was
dead you'd deny it was suicide.
Melore
miss bossy-pants
>
> you met Kurt??
>
huh?
> Casey
> miss bossy-pants <riot...@antisocial.com.spamless> wrote in message
> news:39280CAD...@antisocial.com.spamless...
> > Susan Olson wrote:
> > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Kurt was responsible. But I bet there are a lot more suicides caused
> by
> > > > people like you who are so in denial about the connection between
> depression
> > > > and suicide that you can't accept the truth. If a friend of yours
> dropped a
> > > > hint about feeling suicidal, you'd probably ignore it. Then after he
> was
> > > > dead you'd deny it was suicide.
> > > >
> > > > Melore
> > >
> > > I dig your point but;; Kurt was known to be suicidal and to have
> > > suicidal ideations. (I said was KNOWN to have) This makes covering up a
> > > murder much easier.
> >
> >
> > it also makes it much more likely that he did it himself.
> >
> >
> > > Don't talk about killin yoself if you ain't gonna do
> > > it, cause somebody else might do it for ya!! I don't know if he offed
> > > himself or not, but the time I met him he seemed to have a very positive
> > > energy about him; though I only met with him briefly. Just a thought,
> and
> > > I'll end it with a line of periods...........................
> >
> >
> > --
> > *alli
> > { http://anxious.cjb.net }
> > [underneath blue skies]
> > [beautiful empty dying]
> >
--
*alli
{ http://anxious.cjb.net }
[underneath blue skies]
[beautiful empty dying]
rob...@hotmail.com
<pes...@erols.com> wrote:
>On Mon, 22 May 2000 00:40:35 GMT, rob...@hotmail.com took three hits
>of acid and hallucinated the following, scary-ass scenario:
>
>>On Sun, 21 May 2000 20:15:36 -0400, Vote Your Uterus
>><pes...@erols.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>Here's what the police report say's - and I quote: "There are stairs
>>>on the westside leading to the french door entry and another set of
>>>french doors on the eastside which lead to a balcony. These doors are
>>>unlocked and closed but there is a stool with a box of gardening
>>>supplies on it in front of the door."
>>>
>>>One: You are a liar. Two: That would still prevent a murderer from
>>>placing said object in front of said doors and exiting through those
>>>doors. Three: A murderer is more likely to leave through the back
>>>doors - locking them behind him/her - duh. Four: Talk about
>>>inaccuracies! You should get yer facts straight before accusing
>>>someone of murder. It's the prudent thing to do...
>>>
>>>So yeah, it's pretty fucking insignificant. Except for you lying...
>>>that's pretty significant....
>>
>>Call me a liar, tell me to go kiss my mommy, tell me to "shut the fuck
>>up," do what you like. But when you're done, please read the following
>>sentence taken from police report #94-156500, item 8: "Levandowski
>>observed that the french doors at the opposite end of the room were
>>blocked by a stool, preventing access."
>>
>>There it is.
>>
>
>That's not what item #8 says. Apparently you have a fake.
You just wish it were a fake police report so you have decided to
claim it is fake. It's genuine and you know it.
>
>In any case, where the fuck did "wedged" come from?!?!? And why can
>you not grasp that there is a second set of doors? There are two sets
>of fucking doors! One is blocked by a stool and the others are locked!
>What the fuck does that have to do with anything?!?!? I'll tell you
>what it has to do with... it has to do with you grasping at straws.
>That's all.
No door was blocked by a stool. The police report stated falsely that
the stool had blocked the doors and prevented access. The other doors
were locked, and that was noted correctly. However, the Seattle Police
Department's claim that Cobain had barricaded himself in the room is
simply not true. This was at the very least, extremely negligent and
sloppy police work.
Remember, the false claim about the barricaded door is only one of
several critical mistakes or inaccuracies in the SPD's investigation.
I can post more of them if you like, but there are a couple of other,
lesser known aspects of the case I would rather discuss. It has
already been established that the investigation was botched. If you
want more evidence of that, it's not too hard to find.
Maachanto no Remon
<pes...@erols.com> simply wrote:
>>Well I don't think you can say that there is absolutely NO evidence that
>>he was murdered. Why wouldn't a killer want to incapacitate a victim with
>>a heroin injection before taking him upstairs and pulling the trigger. It
>>probably was a suicide; but there is at least some circumstancial evidence
>>otherwise. Your god, get real if you want to.
>
>
>I'm agnostic.
My religious beliefs are incredibly fruity. I'd write something about
them for you all, but I get the feeling you'd laugh. :)
Maachanto no Remon
<pes...@erols.com> simply wrote:
>On Wed, 24 May 2000 01:49:16 GMT, Ipaka...@SPAMnewmailBOTS.netSUCK
>(Maachanto no Remon) took three hits of acid and hallucinated the
>following, scary-ass scenario:
>
>>On Tue, 23 May 2000 20:57:13 -0400, Vote Your Uterus
>><pes...@erols.com> simply wrote:
>>
>>>>Well I don't think you can say that there is absolutely NO evidence that
>>>>he was murdered. Why wouldn't a killer want to incapacitate a victim with
>>>>a heroin injection before taking him upstairs and pulling the trigger. It
>>>>probably was a suicide; but there is at least some circumstancial evidence
>>>>otherwise. Your god, get real if you want to.
>>>
>>>
>>>I'm agnostic.
>>
>>My religious beliefs are incredibly fruity. I'd write something about
>>them for you all, but I get the feeling you'd laugh. :)
>>
>>
>Please do! I won't laugh. :)
Alrighty. I have it written out nicely in my "Book," but that's in my
car. So, I'll write it here later this evening. (I don't want to go
out to my car now.)
James Cascading Gently In Leather
>>>he was murdered. Why wouldn't a killer want to incapacitate a victim with
>>>a heroin injection before taking him upstairs and pulling the trigger. It
>>>probably was a suicide; but there is at least some circumstancial evidence
>>>otherwise. Your god, get real if you want to.
>>
>>
>>I'm agnostic.
>
>My religious beliefs are incredibly fruity. I'd write something about
>them for you all, but I get the feeling you'd laugh. :)
>
>
>
>
My religous beliefs are minty with a hint of vanilla, and no, I won't share
them.
James
beta site: http://www.james9.cjb.net
rob...@hotmail.com
<pes...@erols.com> wrote:
>On Wed, 24 May 2000 01:47:56 GMT, rob...@hotmail.com took three hits
>of acid and hallucinated the following, scary-ass scenario:
>
>
>>>>
>>>>Call me a liar, tell me to go kiss my mommy, tell me to "shut the fuck
>>>>up," do what you like. But when you're done, please read the following
>>>>sentence taken from police report #94-156500, item 8: "Levandowski
>>>>observed that the french doors at the opposite end of the room were
>>>>blocked by a stool, preventing access."
>>>>
>>>>There it is.
>>>>
>>>
>>>That's not what item #8 says. Apparently you have a fake.
>>
>>You just wish it were a fake police report so you have decided to
>>claim it is fake. It's genuine and you know it.
>
>Why should I care whether it's fake or not...
Because if its real it proves the police report was botched. It also
proves you were wrong about its existence (although that is not really
my goal).
>I'm not the one wasting
>my time on a frivolous cause...
Then stop.
>
>>>
>>>In any case, where the fuck did "wedged" come from?!?!? And why can
>>>you not grasp that there is a second set of doors? There are two sets
>>>of fucking doors! One is blocked by a stool and the others are locked!
>>>What the fuck does that have to do with anything?!?!? I'll tell you
>>>what it has to do with... it has to do with you grasping at straws.
>>>That's all.
>>
>>
>>No door was blocked by a stool. The police report stated falsely that
>>the stool had blocked the doors and prevented access. The other doors
>>were locked, and that was noted correctly. However, the Seattle Police
>>Department's claim that Cobain had barricaded himself in the room is
>>simply not true. This was at the very least, extremely negligent and
>>sloppy police work.
>
>The police never said he barricaded himself in the room... the media
>perhaps... but not the police.
The police report says the doors to the stairway were locked and at
the other doors there was a stool preventing access. This means he was
locked in (the police report mentions the fire dept. breaking the
glass to gain access). The report clearly states that the stool was
blocking access. In other words, one set of doors was locked, and he
barricaded the other, unlocked door with a stool. He was supposedly
barricaded in the greenhouse.
>
>>
>>Remember, the false claim about the barricaded door is only one of
>>several critical mistakes or inaccuracies in the SPD's investigation.
>
>
>Dude, one more time, there was another set of doors... they were
>locked... have you ever locked a door as you were leaving a room and
>shut it behind you? It's a really simple procedure. No, really.
Yes, that is correct. That is an excellent point; too good, in fact,
to be left out of a police report. But it was.
>
>>I can post more of them if you like, but there are a couple of other,
>>lesser known aspects of the case I would rather discuss. It has
>>already been established that the investigation was botched. If you
>>want more evidence of that, it's not too hard to find.
>
>I just wish you'd post something of significance.
Don't worry.
>It doesn't fucking
>matter what the police said about the doors that led to the balcony.
>can't believe that you really think there's some significance to the
>police report saying the balcony doors were blocked.
The significance is that it proves the investigation was flawed.
>I mean, you
>really sound like an idiot. Nothin' personal.
Then why pay attention?
James Cascading Gently In Leather
>the
>substantiality of the today's 11th amendment
>
>am i the only one not wearing a homemade aluminum foil hat?
>
>L
>
You aren't wearing your hat? Dude, you're supposed to.
LifeDespiteGod
substantiality of the today's 11th amendment
am i the only one not wearing a homemade aluminum foil hat?
L
"peer pressure escapes me when the crowd rapes me"
Brian W. Peterson
>>the
>>substantiality of the today's 11th amendment
>>
>>am i the only one not wearing a homemade aluminum foil hat?
>You aren't wearing your hat? Dude, you're supposed to.
Oh man, now you've done it!
LifeDespiteGod
>
I knew something was missing...
James Cascading Gently In Leather
None of us ever met him (I think) or El Duce or Tom Grant or Ronald Reagan.
Let's give it a rest, sweeties, whattaya say? :)
OhGodNo
know alot more about Nirvana than I. All I know is how to look up this stuff
online, and how to listen to their music and regret that it's over.
I think BOTH sides have legitimacy to their arguments, hell, if they didn't
there wouldn't be a fight like this going on. I'd suggest using the power of
the net to ask people these things.
Allen Wrench has a website for his band, Kill Allen Wrench, and his email is
on the site. Write and ask. He usually responds to email (he's in a local
rape-rock band, I kinda found HIM before I read that there's suspicion on
him either about Kurt or El Duce) so if you really want to hear what someone
involved has to say, ask him.
http://www.killallenwrench.com
The HOLE website has an ask Courtney section up and live now, and whilst I
doubt that your question would be answered in the public forum (though it
WOULD be excellent pr, and she's the queen) since she takes such an avid
interest in this subject, a polite, well-worded NONCONFRONTATIONAL (yes, no
fun, but you want an answer, even if it's a fuck you NO I didn't!) email may
get a response from SOMEONE. Use your hotmail addy, LOL.
http://www.holemusic.com/
I guess that's all for my big mouth. I hope I don't get flamed TOO badly,
but this is kinda how I do things. If I hear this, or that, or the other,
and want to know either if it's true or if there's more info, I just go as
closely to the source as possible.
I think the shittiest thing in the world is that there's nothing that will
fix it. Regardless of who shot Kurt, whether Courtney, Kurt, Cali, Allen, we
were still robbed of a creative genius and talent that all of us, even those
who don't agree on the way of departure are STILL mourning the loss of in
some way or another. I personally have been kept FROM suicide by Nirvana,
and Kurt's death (even if it was murder, the effect on Frances and most of
the world has been suicide, so I'm not taking sides, just going with
'appearances' at this time :) ) leaving his daughter fatherless made me
treasure my own children, life, and creativity even more than I did.
Kurt lived a short, tempestuous, often violent life. He wrote from his
heart, and he told his truth. You've listened to it and been touched by it,
or you wouldn't be arguing over this stuff. We're all better and more
complete for him having given his music to the public, which tormented him
because of what he stood for. Kurt's not God (er, I don't think so anyway)
but his humanness is what made him so close to us, I think. We saw a
superstar in all his humanity and misery.
Try to remember that we're what he's left behind, we're the legacy that will
make sure the music is listened to, appreciated, hated, discussed,
whatever...
We all have our opinions of what is fact in this situation, but one thing
isn't in doubt. He was stolen from us, and we're NOT happy, we're NOT
vindicated, and we're NOT going to get over it.
It's as it should be. Could you see Nirvana ending and transcending any
other way? Just don't let HOW he died destroy enjoying the gift he's left.
Shelle
"Vote Your Uterus" <pes...@erols.com> wrote in message
news:kc9oisg155ekhhjck...@4ax.com...
> On 24 May 2000 17:50:47 GMT, fall...@aol.communism (James Cascading
> Gently In Leather) took three hits of acid and hallucinated the
> following, scary-ass scenario:
>
> >Hey! None of us has actually been in that room where Kurt's body was
found.
> >None of us ever met him (I think) or El Duce or Tom Grant or Ronald
Reagan.
> >
> Which is exactly why we need to re-open the investigation, James!
>
>
> >Let's give it a rest, sweeties, whattaya say? :)
> >
>
> <snort>
>
>
> Dave..
>
> Visit the new and improved Sporange WebSite!
>
> http://members.xoom.com/sporange/sporange.html
>
> Now with more porn than ever!
OhGodNo
grab for publicity, and sick publicity at that. You do however, have to
remember the genre of entertainment this man profits in providing. The
newsletter consists of bullshit, really. It's comic, if you let it be, scary
otherwise.
The weird thing is that I'm a fan of this music. Not Wrench's specifically,
I mean the local trash punk/rape-rock scene here in the Riverside, CA area.
The man Wrench has supposedly admitted to accompanying to his death, El Duce
was a guy in another rape-rock group, called The Mentors, and they are
pretty legendary, at least out here.
If Wrench did this, I'd like to know why Duce's band members (I believe it's
Sickie Wifebeater, but I haven't looked at any of their stuff for awhile,
could be Doctor Heathen Scum, who now presides over the Church of El Duce...
advertised in Wrench's newsletters) are now involved with Kill Allen Wrench?
Pretty ridiculous, or pretty scary, I guess.
Shelle
"Brian W. Peterson" <wpete...@aol.commentator> wrote in message
news:20000525013533...@ng-fp1.aol.com...
>
> Allen Wrench is truly more screwed up then I thought. Here is the exact
> Nirvana related link:
>
> http://www.pe.net/~awrench/killallen/connection.html
>
>
>
> -This has been a special announcement from Brian.
>
> *The Nirvana Information Archive*
> http://members.aol.com/WPeter4105/index.html
>
> *Read My Opinions On Things*
> http://www.epinions.com/user-nirv4ever
>
OhGodNo
Allen is a small time band with big time jealousy, sure. But all the parties
have free beer :)
AND, I have yet to see (or hear) of Allen and company taking a massive shit
onstage and pelting the audience with it...
THANK GOD!
Shelle
"James Cascading Gently In Leather" <fall...@aol.communism> wrote in
message news:20000525020437...@ng-fu1.aol.com...
> >Allen Wrench is truly more screwed up then I thought. Here is the exact
> >Nirvana related link:
> >
> >http://www.pe.net/~awrench/killallen/connection.html
> >
> >
> >
> >-This has been a special announcement from Brian.
> >
>
> The chip on this guy's shoulder is that GG Allin thought of his schtick
first.
Brian W. Peterson
Allen Wrench is truly more screwed up then I thought. Here is the exact
Nirvana related link:
http://www.pe.net/~awrench/killallen/connection.html
-This has been a special announcement from Brian.
*The Nirvana Information Archive*
James Cascading Gently In Leather
>Nirvana related link:
>
>http://www.pe.net/~awrench/killallen/connection.html
>
>
>
>-This has been a special announcement from Brian.
>
The chip on this guy's shoulder is that GG Allin thought of his schtick first.
Brian W. Peterson
>I didn't know if giving out that url would be ok, LOL. Yeah, it's a blatant
>grab for publicity, and sick publicity at that. You do however, have to
>remember the genre of entertainment this man profits in providing. The
>newsletter consists of bullshit, really. It's comic, if you let it be, scary
>otherwise.
>
>The weird thing is that I'm a fan of this music. Not Wrench's specifically,
>I mean the local trash punk/rape-rock scene here in the Riverside, CA area.
>The man Wrench has supposedly admitted to accompanying to his death, El Duce
>was a guy in another rape-rock group, called The Mentors, and they are
>pretty legendary, at least out here.
>
>If Wrench did this, I'd like to know why Duce's band members (I believe it's
>Sickie Wifebeater, but I haven't looked at any of their stuff for awhile,
>could be Doctor Heathen Scum, who now presides over the Church of El Duce...
>advertised in Wrench's newsletters) are now involved with Kill Allen Wrench?
>
>Pretty ridiculous, or pretty scary, I guess.
>
>Shelle
I think it's more scary than anything.
-This has been a special announcement from Brian.
*The Nirvana Information Archive*
OhGodNo
freak.
Possibly more so than me even :)
Shelle
"Brian W. Peterson" <wpete...@aol.commentator> wrote in message
news:20000525075544...@ng-ba1.aol.com...
Bjorn Magnusson
in alt.music.nirvana,
<OhGodNo> wrote:
> AND, I have yet to see (or hear) of Allen and company taking a massive shit
> onstage and pelting the audience with it...
That would just be a poor man's David Yow imitation.
--
Björn Magnusson -- hardly as alone as glad
bjorn.m<at>home.se
OhGodNo
G.G. did :)
Shelle
"Bjorn Magnusson" <bjo...@REMOVEhome.se> wrote in message
news:392d26dd.3100352@news.algonet.se...
Bjorn Magnusson
in alt.music.nirvana,
<OhGodNo> wrote:
> > > AND, I have yet to see (or hear) of Allen and company taking a massive
> > > shit onstage and pelting the audience with it...
> >
> > That would just be a poor man's David Yow imitation.
>
> Ok, then how bout EATING it?
>
> G.G. did :)
That's not a David Yow imitation, that's just GROSS!
--
Björn Magnusson
- hardly as alone as glad
bjorn.m<at>home.se
"What was good was up from under"
- Will Oldham
OhGodNo
(thankfully) on video...
Shelle
"James Cascading Gently In Leather" <fall...@aol.communism> wrote in
message news:20000525201218...@ng-ft1.aol.com...
> >> >Allen Wrench is truly more screwed up then I thought. Here is the
exact
> >> >Nirvana related link:
> >> >
> >> >http://www.pe.net/~awrench/killallen/connection.html
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >-This has been a special announcement from Brian.
> >> >
> >>
> >> The chip on this guy's shoulder is that GG Allin thought of his schtick
> >first.
> >>
> >> James
> >>
> >Oh, no, don't call GG a schtick!!!!
> >
> >Allen is a small time band with big time jealousy, sure. But all the
parties
> >have free beer :)
> >
> >AND, I have yet to see (or hear) of Allen and company taking a massive
shit
> >onstage and pelting the audience with it...
> >
> >
> >THANK GOD!
> >
> >Shelle
>
> Did you ever see GG? He wuz schtick.
James Cascading Gently In Leather
James Cascading Gently In Leather
>> onstage and pelting the audience with it...
>
>Björn Magnusson -- hardly as alone as glad
>
Bjorn, GG was doing that maybe 5 years before David Yow began his exciting rock
and roll career. And David Yow is a poor Iggy Pop imitator (who himself is a
confessed Jim Morisson imitator).
James Cascading Gently In Leather
>exact
>> >> >Nirvana related link:
>> >> >
>> >> >http://www.pe.net/~awrench/killallen/connection.html
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >-This has been a special announcement from Brian.
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >> The chip on this guy's shoulder is that GG Allin thought of his schtick
>> >first.
>> >>
>> >> James
>> >>
>> >Oh, no, don't call GG a schtick!!!!
>> >
>> >Allen is a small time band with big time jealousy, sure. But all the
>parties
>> >have free beer :)
>> >
>shit
>> >onstage and pelting the audience with it...
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >Shelle
>>
>> Did you ever see GG? He wuz schtick.
>>
>> James
>>
>
>(thankfully) on video...
>
>
>Shelle
I saw him live and I stood in the back. I was only 15. No shit at that show. At
L'Amour in Brooklyn, the place that got closed down because a kid was killed
(trampled?) there at a Life of Agony show.
Bjorn Magnusson
in alt.music.nirvana,
fall...@aol.communism (James Cascading Gently In Leather) wrote:
> >> AND, I have yet to see (or hear) of Allen and company taking a massive shit
> >> onstage and pelting the audience with it...
> >
> >That would just be a poor man's David Yow imitation.
>
> Bjorn, GG was doing that maybe 5 years before David Yow began his exciting rock
> and roll career. And David Yow is a poor Iggy Pop imitator (who himself is a
> confessed Jim Morisson imitator).
Oh. I don't know much about Yow, I just read about is poo-escapades
in Thurston Moore's EVOL tour diary -- it's hilarious.
--
Björn Magnusson
- hardly as alone as glad
bjorn.m<at>home.se
rob...@hormail.com
<pes...@erols.com> wrote:
>On Fri, 19 May 2000 05:06:47 GMT, rob...@hotmail.com took three hits
>of acid and hallucinated the following, scary-ass scenario:
>
>
>>>Puh-lease.
>>>No, there was no conflict unless it meant that he was even more
>>>careful in his diagnosis. I mean, wouldn't you be?
>>
>>No. If I were the chief medical examiner assigned to a murder/suicide
>>scene, and I was friends with one or more parties possibly involved, I
>>would resign from the investigation as would most police and
>>detectives faced with the same situation. It is their legal
>>obligation.
>>
>That's another lie. It is not his "legal" obligation. He's the
>coroner, not a lawyer.
Laws do apply to coroners as well as lawyers.
>His only duty was to perform an autopsy and
>determine the cause of death. He determined Kurt died of a gunshot to
>the head. No shit, that's how he died. Another forensic scientist has
>confirmed the autopsy report.
What is his name?
>You have not even ONE forensic
>specialist that contradicts that.
I posted a quote from Cyril Wecht which clearly contradicts this.
Roger Lewis has also very clearly contradicted this.
rob...@hotmail.com
<pes...@erols.com> wrote:
>On Sun, 21 May 2000 02:08:07 -0600, sol...@itec.net (Susan Olson) took
>three hits of acid and hallucinated the following, scary-ass scenario:
>
>>>
>>>
>>> Kurt was responsible. But I bet there are a lot more suicides caused by
>>> people like you who are so in denial about the connection between depression
>>> and suicide that you can't accept the truth. If a friend of yours dropped a
>>> hint about feeling suicidal, you'd probably ignore it. Then after he was
>>> dead you'd deny it was suicide.
>>>
>>> Melore
>>
>> I dig your point but;; Kurt was known to be suicidal and to have
>>suicidal ideations. (I said was KNOWN to have) This makes covering up a
>>murder much easier. Don't talk about killin yoself if you ain't gonna do
>>it, cause somebody else might do it for ya!! I don't know if he offed
>>himself or not, but the time I met him he seemed to have a very positive
>>energy about him; though I only met with him briefly. Just a thought, and
>>I'll end it with a line of periods...........................
>
>
>Suicidal people don't emerge from the womb suicidal. They are not born
>with 'negative energy'. People who are afflicted with bi-polar
>disorder will give off both negative and positive energy depending on
>their (no shit) mood. Would that be an accurate assessment?
>
>People who are suicidal can actually be happy at various times of
>their lives. That's why you hear so many people say "I never saw it
>coming". I've heard plenty of mother's utter those words.
For the most part, the "poor, suicidal Kurt" hype originated from
Cobain's wife and murderer.
>
>But yeah, somebody else might do it for ya. As in, it would've been
>TOO easy to kill Kurt and make it look like a suicide. What idiot is
>gonna shoot Kurt up with a massive dose of heroin, and then shoot him
>in the head?
He had already survived at least two overdoses. A potential murderer
would want to make sure he didn't survive another.
Also, giving him enough heroin to render him unconscious would make it
easier to stage his suicide. A conscious person resists murder
attempts more effectively than someone who is comatose.
>That's idiotic. For the people who believe that, that is.
>How 'bout you just shoot him up one more time with an even larger
>dose... and make sure he died? Or, how 'bout accidentally leaving an
>air bubble in the syringe and killing him instantly?
The old "air bubble in the syringe" trick only works in the movies. In
real life, it would take several cc's of air to actually kill someone.
>Oops!
>
>No, it would've been too easy to kill Kurt and leave absolutely no
>evidence that he was actually murdered.
That seems to be what his wife thought.
>My god, let's get fucking
>real.
rob...@hotmail.com
wrote:
>i hate reading this ng because of these fuckups out to perpetuate crap with the
>substantiality of the today's 11th amendment
Amendment XI
"The judicial power of the United States shall not be construed to
extend to any suit in law or equity, commenced or prosecuted against
one of the United States by Citizens of another state, or by Citizens
or Subjects of any Foreign State."
The eleventh Amendment has nothing to do with Cobain's murder.
>
>am i the only one not wearing a homemade aluminum foil hat?
>
Brian W. Peterson
>>their lives. That's why you hear so many people say "I never saw it
>>coming". I've heard plenty of mother's utter those words.
>
>For the most part, the "poor, suicidal Kurt" hype originated from
>Cobain's wife and murderer.
No it didn't! Kurt's family had a history of people who had died by suicide.
Kurt dropped hints of his discontent and suicidal thoughts more than you are
willing to believe in interviews, songs, etc. Dave Grohl for instance
recognized this during the time that he lived with Kurt in 1991. Kurt
eventually told Dave that "he was not always like this," meaning depressed.
You did not live with Kurt, know Kurt personally, or ever speak to him. None
of us did. But the people that were closest to him during his life, Courtney,
Dave, Krist, Kurt's mom all saw the obvious, that Kurt was very much suicidal
at times. What about the time where Kurt flipped out in 1989 on stage and
threatened to kill himself by falling from a high distance ? Do you want more
instances?
>He had already survived at least two overdoses. A potential murderer
>would want to make sure he didn't survive another.
Two overdoses that he did to himself. Do you honestly believe a potential
murderer would positively know Kurt's entire drug history?
>Also, giving him enough heroin to render him unconscious would make it
>easier to stage his suicide. A conscious person resists murder
>attempts more effectively than someone who is comatose.
No shit sherlock, that doesn't make it a murder.
-This has been a special announcement from Brian.
*The Nirvana Information Archive*
Brian W. Peterson
>>i hate reading this ng because of these fuckups out to perpetuate crap with
>the
>>substantiality of the today's 11th amendment
>
>Amendment XI
>
>"The judicial power of the United States shall not be construed to
>extend to any suit in law or equity, commenced or prosecuted against
>one of the United States by Citizens of another state, or by Citizens
>or Subjects of any Foreign State."
>
>The eleventh Amendment has nothing to do with Cobain's murder.
The rest of us agree that it had nothing to do with Kurt's suicide. You never
have answered the question that why would the entire Cobain family would not
try to take action against Courtney if they had the smallest shred of evidence
it might be a murder? They are not under a gag order. If you say they are, I
can guarantee you the whole family isn't. They could bring their case to the
media even if they did not have enough proof to bring it to court, much like
Tom Grant. And why has Kurt's mom been seen with Courtney out in public if she
thought anything such as you always imply?
missy aggravation
>
> On Sat, 03 Jun 2000 01:49:18 GMT, rob...@hotmail.com took three hits
> of acid and hallucinated the following "scary-ass" scenario:
>
> >On Sun, 21 May 2000 20:58:47 -0400, Vote Your Uterus
> ><pes...@erols.com> wrote:
> >
> >>On Sun, 21 May 2000 02:08:07 -0600, sol...@itec.net (Susan Olson) took
> >>three hits of acid and hallucinated the following, scary-ass scenario:
> >>
>
> >
> >>How 'bout you just shoot him up one more time with an even larger
> >>dose... and make sure he died? Or, how 'bout accidentally leaving an
> >>air bubble in the syringe and killing him instantly?
> >
> >The old "air bubble in the syringe" trick only works in the movies. In
> >real life, it would take several cc's of air to actually kill someone.
>
> up... but I am rather curious to see how honest you are.
i think he's right here.. iirc, at least 40cc.
--
--alli;
http://www.btinternet.com/~yannaco/
--become a z:
http://www.gat09.dial.pipex.com/z.htm
--
Lan
> On 24 May 2000 07:15:58 GMT, lifedes...@aol.com (LifeDespiteGod)
> wrote:
>> i hate reading this ng because of these fuckups out to perpetuate crap
>> with the substantiality of the today's 11th amendment
> Amendment XI
> "The judicial power of the United States shall not be construed to
> extend to any suit in law or equity, commenced or prosecuted against
> one of the United States by Citizens of another state, or by Citizens
> or Subjects of any Foreign State."
> The eleventh Amendment has nothing to do with Cobain's murder.
I hate feminists
>> am i the only one not wearing a homemade aluminum foil hat?
>> L
>> "peer pressure escapes me when the crowd rapes me"
--
http://members.tripod.com/LanTheBoy
Email: Anti-chaos. ICQ://26027485
oooh its all dissapear..... oh theyre all..... go away.
Sheridan Hutchinson
"Brian W. Peterson" <wpete...@aol.commentator> wrote in message
>What about the time where Kurt flipped out in 1989 on stage and
> threatened to kill himself by falling from a high distance ? Do you want
more
> instances?
You got any links for that, I'd like to read a little more about what went
on exactly.
--
Sheridan Hutchinson - Sher...@shezza.org or ICQ #46441771
LC Agent #786 TINLC
Spammers: Spam Me and I'll See to It That
You Lose Your Network Connectivity
Brian W. Peterson
>> threatened to kill himself by falling from a high distance ? Do you want
>more
>> instances?
>
>You got any links for that, I'd like to read a little more about what went
>on exactly.
I would look through the Melody Maker articles from 1989 on this site I believe
it in there. This site has got so many great articles and pictures from
different magazines throughout Nirvana's career:
http://www.interlog.com/~jenj/
rob...@hotmail.com
<pes...@erols.com> wrote:
>On Sat, 03 Jun 2000 01:49:18 GMT, rob...@hotmail.com took three hits
>of acid and hallucinated the following "scary-ass" scenario:
>
>>On Sun, 21 May 2000 20:58:47 -0400, Vote Your Uterus
>><pes...@erols.com> wrote:
>>
>>>On Sun, 21 May 2000 02:08:07 -0600, sol...@itec.net (Susan Olson) took
>>>three hits of acid and hallucinated the following, scary-ass scenario:
>>>
>
>>>
>>>Suicidal people don't emerge from the womb suicidal. They are not born
>>>with 'negative energy'. People who are afflicted with bi-polar
>>>disorder will give off both negative and positive energy depending on
>>>their (no shit) mood. Would that be an accurate assessment?
>>>
>>>People who are suicidal can actually be happy at various times of
>>>their lives. That's why you hear so many people say "I never saw it
>>>coming". I've heard plenty of mother's utter those words.
>>
>>For the most part, the "poor, suicidal Kurt" hype originated from
>>Cobain's wife and murderer.
>>
>>>
>>>But yeah, somebody else might do it for ya. As in, it would've been
>>>TOO easy to kill Kurt and make it look like a suicide. What idiot is
>>>gonna shoot Kurt up with a massive dose of heroin, and then shoot him
>>>in the head?
>>
>>He had already survived at least two overdoses. A potential murderer
>>would want to make sure he didn't survive another.
>
>then you put a bag over his head. or you throw HIM off a cliff. or you
>drown him in a bathtub. OR YOU LAY HIM ON SOME TRAIN TRACKS. OR TURN
>ON THE GAS.
Yes, these techniques are all perfectly lethal.
>or make sure HE ISN'T FREAKIN' BREATHING DUMBASS!
People in a comatose state can appear not to be breathing, and have a
very faint pulse. They are easily mistaken for dead.
>>
>>Also, giving him enough heroin to render him unconscious would make it
>>easier to stage his suicide. A conscious person resists murder
>>attempts more effectively than someone who is comatose.
>>
>That's the most intelligent thing you've come up with thus far. It is
>blatantly obvious, after all.
That's my point.
rob...@hotmail.com
On Fri, 02 Jun 2000 22:22:44 -0400, Vote Your Uterus
<pes...@erols.com> wrote:
>On Sat, 03 Jun 2000 01:49:18 GMT, rob...@hotmail.com took three hits
>of acid and hallucinated the following "scary-ass" scenario:
>
>>On Sun, 21 May 2000 20:58:47 -0400, Vote Your Uterus
>><pes...@erols.com> wrote:
>>
>>>On Sun, 21 May 2000 02:08:07 -0600, sol...@itec.net (Susan Olson) took
>>>three hits of acid and hallucinated the following, scary-ass scenario:
>>>
>
>>
>>>That's idiotic. For the people who believe that, that is.
>>>How 'bout you just shoot him up one more time with an even larger
>>>dose... and make sure he died? Or, how 'bout accidentally leaving an
>>>air bubble in the syringe and killing him instantly?
>>
>>The old "air bubble in the syringe" trick only works in the movies. In
>>real life, it would take several cc's of air to actually kill someone.
>
>How many cc's, sherlock? Specifically. I'll give ya time to look it
>up... but I am rather curious to see how honest you are.
About 10 cc's in a vein or artery.
rob...@hotmail.com
<pes...@erols.com> wrote:
>On Sat, 03 Jun 2000 01:56:53 GMT, rob...@hormail.com took three hits
>of acid and hallucinated the following "scary-ass" scenario:
>
>>On Sun, 21 May 2000 20:34:20 -0400, Vote Your Uterus
>><pes...@erols.com> wrote:
>>
>>>On Fri, 19 May 2000 05:06:47 GMT, rob...@hotmail.com took three hits
>>>of acid and hallucinated the following, scary-ass scenario:
>>>
>>>
>>>>>Puh-lease.
>>>>>No, there was no conflict unless it meant that he was even more
>>>>>careful in his diagnosis. I mean, wouldn't you be?
>>>>
>>>>No. If I were the chief medical examiner assigned to a murder/suicide
>>>>scene, and I was friends with one or more parties possibly involved, I
>>>>would resign from the investigation as would most police and
>>>>detectives faced with the same situation. It is their legal
>>>>obligation.
>>>>
>>>That's another lie. It is not his "legal" obligation. He's the
>>>coroner, not a lawyer.
>>
>>Laws do apply to coroners as well as lawyers.
>
>Little Elian's father's lawyer is bill clinton's lawyer... That's a
>conflict of interest!!!!!! And you see what's happening... NOTHING!!!
>Now shut up.
Lawyers are not supposed to be impartial.
>
>>
>>>His only duty was to perform an autopsy and
>>>determine the cause of death. He determined Kurt died of a gunshot to
>>>the head. No shit, that's how he died. Another forensic scientist has
>>>confirmed the autopsy report.
>>
>>What is his name?
>
>Dr. Cyril Wecht, dumbass.
>>
>>>You have not even ONE forensic
>>>specialist that contradicts that.
>>
>>I posted a quote from Cyril Wecht which clearly contradicts this.
>
>Really?!?!? He's on unsolved mysteries (WHICH I HAVE ON TAPE DON'T
>MAKE POST THE FUCKING CLIP DIPSHIT!!!!)
I wish you would post it, because I have a quote (the one I posted) in
which he says the amount of heroin in Cobain's blood raises a serious
question as to whether he would have been able to shoot himself. Since
Wecht has said this, I would like to know what forensic evidence he
would base a suicide verdict on. I don't have the episode on tape.
>saying he agreed it was
>suicide. Gonna quit lying now? No? Just not in here? But elsewhere,
>right? right....
>
>
>>Roger Lewis has also very clearly contradicted this.
>>
>Fuck... don't make me shit my pants with that dumbshit. Dickhead's a
>heathenish.
At least make some sense.
Formally Known As § /\/i®vÄñÄ §
"dumbass" etc....cool off. your right, he's wrong. ok? your the "man" just
cool off........
"Vote Your Uterus" <pes...@erols.com> wrote in message
news:r9rijs85u545crauv...@4ax.com...
> On Sat, 03 Jun 2000 18:50:59 +0100, missy aggravation
> <riot...@antisocial.com.com.com> took three hits of acid and
> hallucinated the following "scary-ass" scenario:
>
> >Vote Your Uterus wrote:
> >>
> >> On Sat, 03 Jun 2000 01:49:18 GMT, rob...@hotmail.com took three hits
> >> of acid and hallucinated the following "scary-ass" scenario:
> >>
> >> >On Sun, 21 May 2000 20:58:47 -0400, Vote Your Uterus
> >> ><pes...@erols.com> wrote:
> >> >
> >> >>On Sun, 21 May 2000 02:08:07 -0600, sol...@itec.net (Susan Olson)
took
> >> >>three hits of acid and hallucinated the following, scary-ass
scenario:
> >> >>
> >>
> >> >
> >> >>That's idiotic. For the people who believe that, that is.
> >> >>How 'bout you just shoot him up one more time with an even larger
> >> >>dose... and make sure he died? Or, how 'bout accidentally leaving an
> >> >>air bubble in the syringe and killing him instantly?
> >> >
> >> >The old "air bubble in the syringe" trick only works in the movies. In
> >> >real life, it would take several cc's of air to actually kill someone.
> >>
> >> How many cc's, sherlock? Specifically. I'll give ya time to look it
> >> up... but I am rather curious to see how honest you are.
> >
> >
> >i think he's right here.. iirc, at least 40cc.
> >
> >
> Hey, y'know, I was just thinking (:|)... Kurt was gonna commit
> suicide... so why not shoot him up with a whole syringe of air...?
>
> That's just as plausible as Courtney killing Kurt from a thousand
> miles away... "Quick, I need a hitman - I know I already hired one
> hitman but he's unreliable - and he needs to find Kurt before Tom
> Grant who is a private investigator whose job it is to find people...
> so what I need is a hitman who is also a heroin addict because
> otherwise Kurt won't want to hang around him." "PS: Don't bother
> looking for kurt between the mattresses in my bedroom... nor in my
> panties drawer... I don't think Kurt could hide in there....OH, and be
> sure to wipe all prints from the gun before you WRAP HIS HAND AROUND
> THE BARREL... that way only Kurt's prints will be found on the gun....
> unless Kurt were to fire the gun in which case they'd be smeared...
> and we don't want that..."
>
> Yeah, that's what happened.
>
>
> Dave..
>
> For Emotional Discomfort, Please Visit the Sporange WebSite of Horror.
>
> http://members.xoom.com/sporange/sporange.html
>
> 'SPORANGE': "This is a vesicule under some species of plants...
> These vesicules contains spores which are the reproductive cells
> (just like Pollen for the flowers)..." -Olivier BLANGÉRO
Formally Known As § /\/i®vÄñÄ §
> very faint pulse. They are easily mistaken for dead.
thats what happened to that guy in the sex pistols who was "dead"and then
alive again, right?
Melora
<rob...@hotmail.com> wrote
> For the most part, the "poor, suicidal Kurt" hype originated from
> Cobain's wife and murderer.
Why don't you go join Toby in his fast.
Melora
Melora
"Lan" <as...@zxcv.net> wrote ...
> rob...@hotmail.com wrote:
> > The eleventh Amendment has nothing to do with Cobain's murder.
>
> I hate feminists
You and robumz should get together. You both think alike.
Melora
rob...@hotmail.com
<pes...@erols.com> wrote:
>On Sun, 04 Jun 2000 04:11:58 GMT, rob...@hotmail.com took three hits
>of acid and hallucinated the following "scary-ass" scenario:
>
>>On Fri, 02 Jun 2000 22:19:55 -0400, Vote Your Uterus
>><pes...@erols.com> wrote:
>>
>>>On Sat, 03 Jun 2000 01:49:18 GMT, rob...@hotmail.com took three hits
>>>of acid and hallucinated the following "scary-ass" scenario:
>>>
>>>>On Sun, 21 May 2000 20:58:47 -0400, Vote Your Uterus
>>>><pes...@erols.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On Sun, 21 May 2000 02:08:07 -0600, sol...@itec.net (Susan Olson) took
>>>>>three hits of acid and hallucinated the following, scary-ass scenario:
>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Suicidal people don't emerge from the womb suicidal. They are not born
>>>>>with 'negative energy'. People who are afflicted with bi-polar
>>>>>disorder will give off both negative and positive energy depending on
>>>>>their (no shit) mood. Would that be an accurate assessment?
>>>>>
>>>>>People who are suicidal can actually be happy at various times of
>>>>>their lives. That's why you hear so many people say "I never saw it
>>>>>coming". I've heard plenty of mother's utter those words.
>>>>
>>>>For the most part, the "poor, suicidal Kurt" hype originated from
>>>>Cobain's wife and murderer.
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>But yeah, somebody else might do it for ya. As in, it would've been
>>>>>TOO easy to kill Kurt and make it look like a suicide. What idiot is
>>>>>gonna shoot Kurt up with a massive dose of heroin, and then shoot him
>>>>>in the head?
>>>>
>>>>He had already survived at least two overdoses. A potential murderer
>>>>would want to make sure he didn't survive another.
>>>
>>>then you put a bag over his head. or you throw HIM off a cliff. or you
>>>drown him in a bathtub. OR YOU LAY HIM ON SOME TRAIN TRACKS. OR TURN
>>>ON THE GAS.
>>
>>Yes, these techniques are all perfectly lethal.
>
>Well, there goes yer theory.
How does the lethality of various other murder techniques invalidate
the evidence for murder?
>>
>>>or make sure HE ISN'T FREAKIN' BREATHING DUMBASS!
>>
>>People in a comatose state can appear not to be breathing, and have a
>>very faint pulse. They are easily mistaken for dead.
>
>So, there'd be no need to shoot him... That seems to be what yer
>saying...
As I've said before, when Love and Cobain were in the hotel room in
Rome, they ordered a bottle of champagne. Love then claimed she awoke
from a nap to find her husband comatose. "...I really thought he was
dead," she said.
By her own words, she became aware that a comatose person can appear
dead, yet still recover.
It is possible that she slipped rohypnol into his champagne (rohypnol
dissolves easily in champagne) and waited until she thought he was
dead to call an ambulance, claiming she had been asleep and therefore
unable to help him sooner.
She has lied about the amount of rohypnol found in his stomach. She
also waited until he was dead to claim it was a suicide attempt (the
attending physician and Cobain both very clearly contradicted this
claim).
Funny that she didn't tell anyone close to him that he was suicidal.
Funny that she wouldn't tell Dylan Carlson or anyone to keep an eye on
him. Funny that Carlson would then buy a shotgun for his "suicidal"
friend, so soon after a "suicide" attempt.
Love also lied about Cobain's first action upon awakening in the
hospital. She originally told "Select" magazine he scrawled "Fuck you"
on a piece of paper when he awoke. Later, she would tell another
reporter he scrawled, "Get these fucking tubes out of my nose."
>>
>>>>
>>>>Also, giving him enough heroin to render him unconscious would make it
>>>>easier to stage his suicide. A conscious person resists murder
>>>>attempts more effectively than someone who is comatose.
>>>>
>>>That's the most intelligent thing you've come up with thus far. It is
>>>blatantly obvious, after all.
>>
>>That's my point.
>
>Yes, an unconscious person can't fight back. Good point. You deserve
>accolades and kudos for yer extraordinary insight.
You asked, "what idiot is going to shoot Kurt up with a massive dose
of heroin, and then shoot him in the head?" That is why I explained to
you the advantage of having an incapacitated victim. Yes, it is an
obvious advantage, but you asked.
rob...@hotmail.com
<pes...@erols.com> wrote:
>On Sun, 04 Jun 2000 04:39:42 GMT, rob...@hotmail.com took three hits
>of acid and hallucinated the following "scary-ass" scenario:
>
>
>>>
>>>Little Elian's father's lawyer is bill clinton's lawyer... That's a
>>>conflict of interest!!!!!! And you see what's happening... NOTHING!!!
>>>Now shut up.
>>
>>Lawyers are not supposed to be impartial.
>
>The miami relatives are trying to use the old "conflict of interest"
>routine to sabotage Elian's reunion with his father. The courts
>snickered at them. Just like they would with your "conflict of
>interest" routine.
This is a false analogy.
>But it'll never make it to court... so you don't
>have to worry about the embarrassment. Therefore, either put him in
>collusion with Courtney, or shut the hell up.
Neither.
>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>>>His only duty was to perform an autopsy and
>>>>>determine the cause of death. He determined Kurt died of a gunshot to
>>>>>the head. No shit, that's how he died. Another forensic scientist has
>>>>>confirmed the autopsy report.
>>>>
>>>>What is his name?
>>>
>>>Dr. Cyril Wecht, dumbass.
>>>>
>>>>>You have not even ONE forensic
>>>>>specialist that contradicts that.
>>>>
>>>>I posted a quote from Cyril Wecht which clearly contradicts this.
>>>
>>>Really?!?!? He's on unsolved mysteries (WHICH I HAVE ON TAPE DON'T
>>>MAKE POST THE FUCKING CLIP DIPSHIT!!!!)
>>
>>I wish you would post it, because I have a quote (the one I posted) in
>>which he says the amount of heroin in Cobain's blood raises a serious
>>question as to whether he would have been able to shoot himself. Since
>>Wecht has said this, I would like to know what forensic evidence he
>>would base a suicide verdict on.
>
>You have a quote, hmm? Sigh..... Let's see this so-called quote....
>Where did you get it? El Duce give it to ya? Or did you find it under
>yer pillow? Serious questions? MOOT, questions... RHETORICAL,
>questions... That's what wecht meant. If he even said it at all....
>
>
>>I don't have the episode on tape.
>
>
>I'm shocked! You should at least know what you're talking about. You
>haven't done one damn thing yerself, have you? You blindly take Grant
>and Roger's word without question. You didn't do any research on your
>own and you never even questioned the so-called evidence these idiots
>stuffed into yer gullible little brain... That's pitiful.
>
>
>>>saying he agreed it was
>>>suicide. Gonna quit lying now? No? Just not in here? But elsewhere,
>>>right? right....
>>>
>>>
>>>>Roger Lewis has also very clearly contradicted this.
>>>>
>>>Fuck... don't make me shit my pants with that dumbshit. Dickhead's a
>>>heathenish.
>>
>>At least make some sense.
>
>Jack me.
Brian W. Peterson
>Rome, they ordered a bottle of champagne. Love then claimed she awoke
>from a nap to find her husband comatose. "...I really thought he was
>dead," she said.
That was her initial thought when she woke up, not after she took a look at him
and checked him out. You take the quotes too literally.
>By her own words, she became aware that a comatose person can appear
>dead, yet still recover.
Like I said you are taking the quote too literally. I could say that I saw a
drunk person passed out and it looked like they were dead and not mean I
actually thought they were dead, they just looked that way.
>It is possible that she slipped rohypnol into his champagne (rohypnol
>dissolves easily in champagne) and waited until she thought he was
>dead to call an ambulance, claiming she had been asleep and therefore
>unable to help him sooner.
And it's also possible your entire theory is bullcrap.
>She has lied about the amount of rohypnol found in his stomach. She
>also waited until he was dead to claim it was a suicide attempt (the
>attending physician and Cobain both very clearly contradicted this
>claim).
She exagerrated, not lied. Courtney has been known to do that her whole life.
If she was asleep which I believe she truly was she would have no idea how many
Kurt took. Kurt would because he took them, and the doctor would because he
pumped out Kurt's stomach. But that doesn't mean Courtney would know for sure.
>Funny that she didn't tell anyone close to him that he was suicidal.
>Funny that she wouldn't tell Dylan Carlson or anyone to keep an eye on
>him. Funny that Carlson would then buy a shotgun for his "suicidal"
>friend, so soon after a "suicide" attempt.
Why do you think you have an intervention for? It's to help a person get over
their drug problems and to make sure the person knows there are people there to
support them. A person who takes heavy doses of drugs everyday might not
exactly be feeling great about life.
>Love also lied about Cobain's first action upon awakening in the
>hospital. She originally told "Select" magazine he scrawled "Fuck you"
>on a piece of paper when he awoke. Later, she would tell another
>reporter he scrawled, "Get these fucking tubes out of my nose."
Don't you ever tell a story a bit wrong when you re-tell it a few times? I'm
sure you have before too. Plus I don't see how that would make a whole lot of
difference about anything.
>You asked, "what idiot is going to shoot Kurt up with a massive dose
>of heroin, and then shoot him in the head?" That is why I explained to
>you the advantage of having an incapacitated victim. Yes, it is an
>obvious advantage, but you asked.
For stating the obvious so much I wonder why you are unable to see the obvious.
Lan
> "Lan" <as...@zxcv.net> wrote ...
>> rob...@hotmail.com wrote:
>> I hate feminists
Evil lying female.
Bjorn Magnusson
in alt.music.nirvana,
rob...@hotmail.com wrote:
> >>>then you put a bag over his head. or you throw HIM off a cliff. or you
> >>>drown him in a bathtub. OR YOU LAY HIM ON SOME TRAIN TRACKS. OR TURN
> >>>ON THE GAS.
> >>
> >>Yes, these techniques are all perfectly lethal.
> >
> >Well, there goes yer theory.
>
> How does the lethality of various other murder techniques invalidate
> the evidence for murder?
Well, why would someone go through the trouble of a) *making* Kurt
shoot up a lot of heroin [1] and b) shoot Kurt in the head, and c)
making it all look like a suicide, when all those other ways listed
above would be easier and more "safe"? Most likely the gun that was
fired wasn't totally "quiet"; neighbours could easily hear it [2]
which isn't a good thing when you kill someone -- chances are that
those who heard it will check it out, stand and look from their
window, call the police, etc.
[1] Surely Kurt wouldn't shoot up all that heroin just because
someone told him to. If the suggested murderer aggressively and
violently tried to prick him with a syringe, I'm sure there would be
traces of that -- for example, I keep hearing about the police finding
traces of skin underneath a raped persons nails, because s/he of
course tried to stop the rapist.
I do believe that Kurt knew at least enough about heroin to know how
much would be a lethal dose for him, and if someone told him that
"dude, this is going to be sooo great -- a triple lethal dose!!!" I'm
sure he would've objected. Or how do you suppose all that heroin was
injected? Who did it? How?
I'm sure Courtney knew a lot about heroin too; for instance, she knew
at least enough to "cure" Kurt before the 07/23/93 show. I'm also
certain that she knew that heroin doesn't "disappear" just because the
person gets shot/shoots himself and dies -- a reasonable guess would
be that she'd tell the person you think did this that "it might seem
strange if there's a lot of heroin *and* a hole in the head, consider
that before you decide how you are going to kill him" -- or? Do you
seriously think that the supposed murder was a "spur of the moment"
type thing? That they hadn't thought about it at all, planned it,
considered various ways to off him, considered what would happen after
the body was found, pondered over why no other suicide (as you, or
someone else, have claimed) with a combined overdose and gunshot had
been reported, etc.?
[2] I admit that I haven't checked all these facts; I don't know the
exact distance between the greenhouse and the closest neighbour,
whether or not the walls (in the greenhouse, and the neighbours') were
sound-proof, if the gun was "silenced" (?) etc.
> >>>or make sure HE ISN'T FREAKIN' BREATHING DUMBASS!
> >>
> >>People in a comatose state can appear not to be breathing, and have a
> >>very faint pulse. They are easily mistaken for dead.
> >
> >So, there'd be no need to shoot him... That seems to be what yer
> >saying...
>
> As I've said before, when Love and Cobain were in the hotel room in
> Rome, they ordered a bottle of champagne. Love then claimed she awoke
> from a nap to find her husband comatose. "...I really thought he was
> dead," she said.
>
> By her own words, she became aware that a comatose person can appear
> dead, yet still recover.
I haven't followed this thread very thoroughly from the beginning, but
let's if I understand this -- you mean that Courtney would have told
the murderer that "even if he doesn't breathe, shoot him -- I know how
drugs work, blah blah comatose etc.", but *not* "look, the police
might question a never before reported high dose of heroin in the
system *and* a shot in the head, consider that"?
> It is possible that she slipped rohypnol into his champagne (rohypnol
> dissolves easily in champagne) and waited until she thought he was
> dead to call an ambulance, claiming she had been asleep and therefore
> unable to help him sooner.
It's also possible that, when the Kurt noticed his wife fell asleep,
he swallowed a bunch of pills and drank some champagne.
> She has lied about the amount of rohypnol found in his stomach.
How many pills did she say he took, and how many did the doctor claim
it was? Were they speaking about the same kind of pills (I work at a
hospital and I see a lot of pills there -- some exist in varying
"doses"; 10 mg, 25 mg, 50 mg, etc.)? Or were they talking in terms of
amount of "pure dangerous substance found in these pills"?
> She
> also waited until he was dead to claim it was a suicide attempt (the
> attending physician and Cobain both very clearly contradicted this
> claim).
Well, you see, it doesn't send out "good vibes" to fans and potential
ditto to say "my husband tried to kill himself!". That's probably why
Kurt didn't say it either; it's not something you should be proud of.
How often do you read about famous rock stars' miserable suicide
attempts?
> Funny that she didn't tell anyone close to him that he was suicidal.
Funny that they don't question the suicide ruling. Maybe it was
understood. Maybe the persons close to him *knew* Kurt, unlike you,
me, heaps of journalists and everybody else.
--
Björn Magnusson
bjorn.m<at>home.se
http://fly.to/bjornm
Lan
:o( But I hate feminists.
Matt Glowaski
or allen hope, ot whatever the hell his name was, (he got run over y a
train!)
HighlanderOf2000
of mine went to high school with him and he tried to kill himself on several
occasions. Is that evidence enough?
later,
Chris
Brian W. Peterson
>> >> threatened to kill himself by falling from a high distance ? Do you
>want
>> >more
>> >> instances?
>> >
>> >You got any links for that, I'd like to read a little more about what
>went
>> >on exactly.
>>
>> I would look through the Melody Maker articles from 1989 on this site I
>believe
>> it in there. This site has got so many great articles and pictures from
>> different magazines throughout Nirvana's career:
>>
>> http://www.interlog.com/~jenj/
>
Your welcome :)
Formally Known As § /\/i®vÄñÄ §
Kurt" ? it seems ive seen this forever.......
"Lan" <as...@zxcv.net> wrote in message
news:asdfg-73A050....@news.dircon.co.uk...
> "Sheridan Hutchinson" <Sher...@shezza.org> wrote:
>
> > "Brian W. Peterson" <wpete...@aol.commentator> wrote in message news
>
> >>>> What about the time where Kurt flipped out in 1989 on stage and
> >>>> threatened to kill himself by falling from a high distance ? Do you
> >>>> want more instances?
>
> >>> You got any links for that, I'd like to read a little more about what
> >>> went on exactly.
>
> >> I would look through the Melody Maker articles from 1989 on this site
> >> I believe it in there. This site has got so many great articles and
> >> pictures from different magazines throughout Nirvana's career:
>
> >> http://www.interlog.com/~jenj/
>
> > Cheers, Brian.
>
> Brian is a jerk and an evil liar. Just like all most the other posters
> here.
Lan
Lan
> "Lan" <as...@zxcv.net> wrote in message news
>> Brian is a jerk and an evil liar. Just like all most the other posters
>> here.
> Brian is a top fella, leave him alone.
> Go back to toilet training toys.
No. He is an evil liar. He protects destructive evil scum from being
made aware of the fact that they are wrong. He says that its OK for them
to come out with fucked up sexual lies about me or lie about my history,
because "They don't believe it".
Well Duh Brian you retard, if I went and beat someone up as a joke and
they died, would that be really funny also, because I didnt mean it?
Seeing as those evil shits aren't exactly backing down from their lies
when I make it obvious that I don't like them, it hardly seems like they
don't want their lies to be beleived. They do their best to convince me
they do believe it and their best to convince me of lies about myself!
Now that is evil. And that is the kind of people Brian wants to protect.
He protects sexist liars against people who believe in equality and
responsibility for their actions. He is evil.