Question about "Closer" video--monkey
Robin Colleen Moore
been on this group, but I'm sure someone out there knows the answer to
this and can help me....I finally got to see the "Closer" video, thanks
to Chris Wiberg (it was the MTV version, but what the hell), and on the
whole I liked it (you sure as hell wouldn't mistake it for anything else
they play, that's for sure...), but one thing bothers me: What's the
deal with the crucified monkey? Did the director, etc. actually have to
do this to the poor animal, or was this stock footage that they were able
to use, or is there another explanation? Call me a wimp if you will,
but that's the one bit that really bothered me...the poor thing seemed
to be so distressed. My overall impression of Trent in this area is that
he's quite an animal lover (and could we expect less from a man who was
feeding all the stray cats in his neighborhood in the Hollywood hills?),
so it disturbs me all the more to think that an animal might have been
made to suffer like that, because it would seem to be so out-of-character...
(BTW, the pig head, although a bit gross, doesn't bother me nearly as
much somehow...I know that one can get various animal parts from
slaughterhouses, etc.--a friend of mine who incorporates this kind of
thing into her artwork does it all the time--and, as an omnivore, I'd be
something of a hypocrite to boot...maybe it's all the anthropomorphic
qualities that monkeys, apes, gorillas, etc. have that gets to me...)
Anyway, someone out there probably can answer this one for me, so if you
could, I'd be eternally grateful....
(For whatever it's worth, I'm not a stereotypical "animal rights person"--
again, as an omnivore, I don't imagine PETA would want anything to do w/me,
and after the Kurt Cobain/River Phoenix business, I don't want anything to
do with *them*--but I do think that it's only reasonable and decent to
avoid causing any creature unnecessary pain if at all possible, and I'm
not quite sure that doing it for "art", as it were, is enough of a
justification for me...)
Robin the mad photographer & animal lover [mommy to Mojo, my 7-year-old
tabby cat]
********************************************************************
ro...@uga.cc.uga.edu University of Georgia, Athens, GA U.S.A.
BLACK SHEEP STUDIOS -- Beware of photographers bearing brownies!
*******************************************************************
You don't get to choose what you get famous for and you don't get
to control which of your life's many struggles gets to stand for
you. The best you can do is work at not caring too much about the
outer symbols and continuing to do whatever it is that centers you
and makes you remember your true self. -- Erica Jong
********************************************************************
Bongarama
RO...@UGA.CC.UGA.EDU (Robin Colleen Moore) writes:
> What's the
> deal with the crucified monkey?
I had heard that this footage was taken from a military procedures
film. They tie the monkey up and shoot it, and then military doctors
try to save its life. It is supposed to be practice for how to deal
with gun-shot wounds. They use monkeys because they are the closest
things to humans as far as their body make-up goes. I don't know if
this is true, but the guy who told me this is in the military, so it
may be...
-David
Marc Leger
> I don't think I've seen this particular question come up as long as I've
> been on this group, but I'm sure someone out there knows the answer to
> this and can help me....I finally got to see the "Closer" video, thanks
> to Chris Wiberg (it was the MTV version, but what the hell), and on the
> whole I liked it (you sure as hell wouldn't mistake it for anything else
> they play, that's for sure...), but one thing bothers me: What's the
> deal with the crucified monkey? Did the director, etc. actually have to
I dunno Robin. But he does seem a little pissed off tied to that cross.
I have the uncut version. You don't see this, but there is a picture of
a man who looks pissed off as well right next to the monkey. He kinda
reminds me of Jack Nicholson. I doubt it's him...who knows.
There's a bunch of images that I question.
Why doesn't the telephone have any buttons? :)
What channel is that little TV on? :) I think it depicts what MTV is worth.
Who is the naked chick with what appears to be eggs spinning on her fingers?
Why is Trent wearing those cool goggles in a what appears to be a wind
tunnel?
Who are those guys in the video with the funny looks on their faces?
Why is that dude kneeling on the books spinning around?
Isn't that a cute little girl in that chair?
Why are those two chicks' hair braided together?
What are ____ images? I forgot the word. It's right before that little
girl appears in the chair.
What is someone typing on that old register looking thing?
Why is Trent's keyboard hanging on the wall at the end? I guess so he can
reach it.
IMO, that video must of been a high dollar production video.
Cya Robin!
Marc
Stephanie Nahas
and try to save its life, etc. that sort of thing might happen, but i
don't think this was such footage. the film and environment, etc., look
exactly like the rest of the video, so i think the video makers did it.
also, this looks like a pretty small monkey; i don't think it would
double well as a human. perhaps a small child. i dunno.
but anyway, to try to answer robin's question, it looks to me like they
did do it themselves, and they did actually crucify the poor beast,
though not mortally so, i think. they didn't nail him to the cross, but
you can see in the unedited version that they did tie him up to one.
there's a full-view shot of it near the beginning. a bit of a shock to
see for the first time after you're so used to seeing the "scene missing"
block there. but like all shocks, they fade...
heh, i remember the first time i saw the video. when trent licked that
mic, i was so disgusted. ick, i was all squirming in my seat and
everything! but now it's become my favorite part of the video.
--steph
<nah...@fas.harvard.edu>
"nice tongue, trent."
R. Patrick Arnold
In a previous article, mle...@connect.net (Marc Leger) says:
>In article <1733AAF...@UGA.CC.UGA.EDU>, <RO...@UGA.CC.UGA.EDU> writes:
>> they play, that's for sure...), but one thing bothers me: What's the
>> deal with the crucified monkey? Did the director, etc. actually have to
i really doubt that the monkey was permanently injured. i even have my
doubts that the monkey footage was original to the video. the film quality
looks somehow...i dunno...different. anyway, i'm from the school
of thought that injuring animals for no reason isn't wrong, it's just
stupid. i hope the monkey wasn't hurt, though, there's really no reason
for it. there's no reason for my boots to be made of leather, though.
they are. i don't lose any sleep over it, though. go figure. i'm always
contradicting myself. socrates would shred me to bits.
>There's a bunch of images that I question.
>What channel is that little TV on? :) I think it depicts what MTV is worth.
it's on the family channel. trent was waiting for the 700 club to come on.
>Why is Trent wearing those cool goggles in a what appears to be a wind
>tunnel?
so he doesn't get any dirt in his eyes. duh!
>Who are those guys in the video with the funny looks on their faces?
tvt records execs.
>Why is that dude kneeling on the books spinning around?
i don't know.
>What is someone typing on that old register looking thing?
"hi kennedy, it's me, trent. i just thought i should let you know that
it's safe now. everybody thinks i hate you, so nobody should notice when
we run away to hawaii and get married. just don't tell hank. i think he
might try to kill me. love, trent."
umm. yeah. well, that's what i heard, anyway.
mippy (ksdfhjuiqweroyhjkasdflcvbnmascvzxlhjkdhjkasflweyufudfaslhjksd)
--
----------------
lyric ref. #3:
call and response in the negative home
-----------------patrick arnold (fo...@cleveland.freenet.edu)
viscous
On Fri, 3 Feb 1995, Robin Colleen Moore wrote:
> this and can help me....I finally got to see the "Closer" video, thanks
> to Chris Wiberg (it was the MTV version, but what the hell), and on the
> whole I liked it (you sure as hell wouldn't mistake it for anything else
> they play, that's for sure...), but one thing bothers me: What's the
> deal with the crucified monkey? Did the director, etc. actually have to
> do this to the poor animal, or was this stock footage that they were able
> to use, or is there another explanation? Call me a wimp if you will,
> but that's the one bit that really bothered me...
>
> Robin the mad photographer & animal lover [mommy to Mojo, my 7-year-old
> tabby cat]
>
well, i dont have a definative answer for you, but i do have some info
that may put your mind at ease. there have been pictures of that monkey
in a few different text books that i remember seeing. (sorry, i have
forgotten which ones) the picture, or one similar to it, is also on the
cover of a stereo taxic device album. i would tend to believe that with
this image being relatively widespread, it is probably stock footage.
viscous, who hopes he is right or will cry for the monkeys sake.
Dirk Ellis
: Anyway, someone out there probably can answer this one for me, so if you
: could, I'd be eternally grateful....
:
: (For whatever it's worth, I'm not a stereotypical "animal rights person"--
: again, as an omnivore, I don't imagine PETA would want anything to do w/me,
: and after the Kurt Cobain/River Phoenix business, I don't want anything to
: do with *them*--but I do think that it's only reasonable and decent to
: avoid causing any creature unnecessary pain if at all possible, and I'm
: not quite sure that doing it for "art", as it were, is enough of a
: justification for me...)
BTW, Chrissie Hynde is the newest to join the campaign.. she said after
she died, she wanted her picture poster all over the place with the
phrases "I wouldn't be caught dead in a fur", and "You wouldn't eat me
now, would you?"... Just silly. As for the monkey, I'm sorry I can't
help you there, but it was definitely something that caught my attention
when I saw it too. Maybe it's a sign of the beginning of the evolution
of man... who knows... well someone does. share the info please!
: Robin the mad photographer & animal lover [mommy to Mojo, my 7-year-old
: tabby cat]
:
: ********************************************************************
: ro...@uga.cc.uga.edu University of Georgia, Athens, GA U.S.A.
: BLACK SHEEP STUDIOS -- Beware of photographers bearing brownies!
: *******************************************************************
: You don't get to choose what you get famous for and you don't get
: to control which of your life's many struggles gets to stand for
: you. The best you can do is work at not caring too much about the
: outer symbols and continuing to do whatever it is that centers you
: and makes you remember your true self. -- Erica Jong
: ********************************************************************
Dirk... father to rupert, the friendliest, and cuddliest kitten in the world.
MC Death
from some video company that loans living organisms just for the sole
purpose of making music videos with animals in them--i think they may be
in the Yellow Pages...
...i also think that the same animal talent agency supplied Faith No More
with the fish that appeared at the end of their "Epic" video...
:)
m.c.d.
******************************************************************************
M.C.DEATH (tortured artist, still eating creamy peanut butter)..
e-mail:<mcd...@gladstone.uoregon.edu>
for a copy of quarterly 'zine of Manic Matrix Productions, "Fade to
Crystalline Black," e-mail for additional info...
nine inch nails--not just my favourite artist, but a way of life...
******************************************************************************
Whetu
"closer" video are from should check out some photo books by
Joel-Peter Witkins. I know the image of the naked girl with the
crucifix mask is from him as well as the crucified monkey i think.
-NaTaS
wh...@aol.com
fi...@hartwick.edu
Mistress Lily
> Anyone interested in seeing where a lot of the images from the
> "closer" video are from should check out some photo books by
> Joel-Peter Witkins. I know the image of the naked girl with the
> crucifix mask is from him as well as the crucified monkey i think.
And Trent's head on the table of fruit, and
the pig's head and, well.....
75% of the images in the video.
The thing was *meant* as a tribute to JPW.
Although the metronome w/ the drawing of the eye
paperclipped onto it is
straight out of Man Ray's work
Love,
Mistress Lily (who isn't a photo major for nothing)
OoOoOOooOooOoOOOOoOoOOoOOooOooOoOooOoOoOOO0
My Lips may Promise but my Heart is a Whore
>>lan...@acs.unt.edu<<
OoOoOOoOoOoOOOOoOoOOooOOoOOoOOoOOoOooOOoOoo
KIMBERLY HUNT
>From: tsi...@fas.harvard.edu (Tatum Simon)
>Subject: Re: Question about "Closer" video--monkey
>Date: 4 Feb 1995 00:16:03 GMT
>In article <NEWTNews.30974....@mleger.connect.net>,
>Marc Leger <mle...@connect.net> wrote:
>>
>>In article <1733AAF...@UGA.CC.UGA.EDU>, <RO...@UGA.CC.UGA.EDU> writes:
>>> they play, that's for sure...), but one thing bothers me: What's the
>>> deal with the crucified monkey? Did the director, etc. actually have to
>>
>>
>>There's a bunch of images that I question.
>>Why doesn't the telephone have any buttons? :)
>>What channel is that little TV on? :) I think it depicts what MTV is worth.
>>Who is the naked chick with what appears to be eggs spinning on her fingers?
>>Why is Trent wearing those cool goggles in a what appears to be a wind
>>tunnel?
>>Who are those guys in the video with the funny looks on their faces?
>>Why is that dude kneeling on the books spinning around?
>>Isn't that a cute little girl in that chair?
>>Why are those two chicks' hair braided together?
>>What are ____ images? I forgot the word. It's right before that little
>>girl appears in the chair.
>>What is someone typing on that old register looking thing?
>>Why is Trent's keyboard hanging on the wall at the end? I guess so he can
>>reach it.
>
>Don't know if anyone's mentioned this yet, but the 'Closer' video is
>modeled after Joel-Peter Witkin's photography, of which Trent is a big fan.
>The crucified monkeys, the 'guys...with the funny looks on their faces' and
>the 'two chicks (with) hair braided together' are surrealistic images,
>from the movement that started in the 1920's. Many surrealists were
>heavily influenced by Freud, their work taking on a dream-like quality.
>(For example, Salvador Dali suspended a dog in mid-air in one of his
>paintings) I don't know the significance of the other images. Any of you
>fine arts majors out there want to help us out?
>-tater (le pomme de terre)
what's interesting about witkin was that his work has a 1930s feel to it, but
most of it was actually done in the 60s or 70s, i believe. he also claimed
that when he was really young he saw a little girl get decapitated in a freak
accident and supposedly he went over to look at the head and this colored his
work and his emotions for the rest of his life. his work is bizarre-definetly
should see this, because so much of the video is taken from his images.
oh yeah-what kind of skeleton is the one shown at the beginning of the
video?-it looks kinda strange..........
kim
Marc Leger
> Since all I have is the MPEG (thank you Jason Patterson), I can't
> quite make out what Trent is sitting under when he has the apple in
> his mouth. Can anyone help (or, better yet, provide a better GIF of
Don, that's a good question I can't answer. I'm sure someone else will.
It appears to be a variety of trinkets hanging on the wall. Hmm...I'll
play it tonight on slow-mo and see.
Cya!
Marc
Xiola Blue
can I find them? Are they mainstream or hard to get? I guess I could ask
my photo teacher, but i'll probably get an answer here first.
--
Send love letters and hate mail to Xiola Bl...@AOL.com
I caught Sarah Lee Lucas' drumstick!!
tj milian
>From: her...@pacific.net (Xiola Blue)
>Subject: Re: Question about "Closer" video--monkey
>Joel-Peter Witkins sounds like a Ga-roovey photographer to me, but where
>can I find them? Are they mainstream or hard to get? I guess I could ask
>my photo teacher, but i'll probably get an answer here first.
whoa. my roommate's here next me laughing his ass off, flipping through a
witkin book. sick puppy. anyway, witkin's works can be found in just about any
large library. _forty photographs_ has got some good "closer"-type photos.
>I caught Sarah Lee Lucas' drumstick!!
good grab. i caught one in iowa.
-tj
nininintnwnonnntngninvnenunpnintnwnannntnsnmnendnenandnininin
i mili...@postbox.acs.ohio-state.edu i
niningnondndnanmnnntnhninsnnnoninsneninnnsnindnenmnynsningnin
AlphaZone
appear to be the entire inventory of a sex shop. Look closely...there are
paddles, handcuffs, a riding crop (I think), and lots of other items that
bear strong resemblance to (ahem) 'naughty bits.' I guess I'll study it
again.
Lisa Livingston
>
> In article <db4025.7...@panther.adelphi.edu>
> db4...@panther.adelphi.edu (Don Becker) writes:
>
> >
> >land...@acs.unt.edu (Mistress Lily) writes:
> >
> >>In article <3h3qhm$2...@newsbf02.news.aol.com>, wh...@aol.com (Whetu) wrote:
> >
> >>> Anyone interested in seeing where a lot of the images from the
> >>> "closer" video are from should check out some photo books by
> >>> Joel-Peter Witkins. I know the image of the naked girl with the
> >>> crucifix mask is from him as well as the crucified monkey i think.
> >
> >>And Trent's head on the table of fruit, and
> >>the pig's head and, well.....
> >>75% of the images in the video.
> >>The thing was *meant* as a tribute to JPW.
> >>Although the metronome w/ the drawing of the eye
> >>paperclipped onto it is
> >>straight out of Man Ray's work
> >
> >
> >Since all I have is the MPEG (thank you Jason Patterson), I can't
> >quite make out what Trent is sitting under when he has the apple in
> >his mouth. Can anyone help (or, better yet, provide a better GIF of
> >quality? :)
> >
> Correct me if I'm wrong here, but I didn't think that was an *apple* in
> his mouth (although that would make for some extremely interesting
> symbolism a la pigs, etc.)--I thought it was a bondage gag (a rubber ball
> on a leather/rubber strap...they're supposedly more effective at shutting
> someone up than a scarf over the mouth, and easier to remove than
> adhesive tape...don't try this at home, kids, and *definitely* don't try
> it with me!). Oh, well, this is what I get for having a copy of _The
> Joy of Sex_ at home....
>
> BTW, I hadn't realized that was supposed to be Trent's head on the table...
> guess I'll have to go back & watch it again. I've seen some of JPW's
> work before, and while I didn't mind some of it, the still life w/the
> severed head kind of flipped me out...I have a bit of a decapitation
> phobia, and even though I know the head in question came from someone
> who was already dead, it still bothers me...
>
> Robin the mad photographer [who'd still like to see the unedited version
> of the video...and no, I *still* don't want to see _Broken_, OK?]
>
> ********************************************************************
> ro...@uga.cc.uga.edu University of Georgia, Athens, GA U.S.A.
> BLACK SHEEP STUDIOS -- Beware of photographers bearing brownies!
> *******************************************************************
> You don't get to choose what you get famous for and you don't get
> to control which of your life's many struggles gets to stand for
> you. The best you can do is work at not caring too much about the
> outer symbols and continuing to do whatever it is that centers you
> and makes you remember your true self. -- Erica Jong
> ********************************************************************
Cadaver Anatomy book...I value your brownie recipes too much!!!
(among other things :) )
procyon (the headless...)
samjac...@gmail.com
smar...@att.net
SM
anticr...@gmail.com
... gawd damn .... why make such a big deal ...
anticr...@gmail.com
tjt...@gmail.com
vall...@gmail.com
http://ew.com/gallery/mark-romanek-inside-stories-8-classic-videos/nine-inch-nails-closer-1994
More than 10 years later you have another answer.
jessica...@gmail.com
mbt1...@gmail.com
mbt1...@gmail.com
seven...@gmail.com
aurora...@gmail.com
> hey I Kno you posted from '95 but are you there?
Yes. And the monkey is not actually tied up.
