Trent getting ripped by the media
DaNSe MaCAbrE
On Thu, 20 Feb 1997 02:07:36 GMT, malc...@atcon.com (MoWie X) wrote:
-=[Is it just me, or is every crappy top 40 rock radio & tv show ripping
-=[trent for his comments about Bush???
-=[
-=[This guy today (can't remember the station) was like "This Reznor guy
-=[has the audacity to criticize Bush.. I mean c'mon.. Reznor is one of
-=[the biggest reason rock stars have the lazy image stamped on them.
-=[While Bush is out changing music, Reznor is sitting around playing
-=[games. This guy puts out one CD (meaning reznor i believe) and he
-=[thinks he can shoot his mouth off"
-=[
-=[
-=[Ugh.. I hate the radio..
-=[
-=[P.S: After hearing shit like this, i recommend listening to "Burn"
-=[about 3 or 4 times..
-=[
-=[
-=[-Mal
-=[
Theres only one problem: he's right! But on the other hand, just cause
Trent Reznor hasnt produced a new NIN record yet doesnt mean that he's
a lazy SOB, the radio DJ forgot to add other works Trent has done
including the production of 3 Marilyn Manson albums, the NBK
soundtrack, the QUAKE soundtrack, and the LOST HIGHWAY soundtrack (is
this guy Mr. Movie or what?). So I guess he was also WRONG to say that
stuff about Trent, which totally contradicts my first sentence. But
Trent DID mention that he has been playing too many video games
lately. Come on TR, get off your ass, turn off the video game, take a
shower and write some FUCKING TUNES! That doesnt sound too demanding
does it?
PS Good BURN recommendation! It really helps me "cool off."
____________________-=[DaNSe MaCAbrE]=-____________________
_______________-=[ToPD...@MiNDspRINg.CoM]=-______________
______-=[http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/5269]=-______
-=[NoTHinG Is ExPLaiNED AnD ThINgs StARt GeTTinG ViOLenT]=-
Michael Robert Ewert
Mr X I know how you feel, I see all these mostly talentless bands sell
millions of albums, copying some band with talent's style and it makes me
want to cry, to me, music is about expression, though it's also about
creativity. I actually hope to make it in the music world, on a minor
label( no major would be interested in my style which I jokingly refer to
as Yanni on acid) Am I copying Yanni, Hell no I despise him, however I
enjoy taking pretty music and fucking it up till people question my
sanity. what sets me apart from the Yanster, vocals and percussion, and
I usually go out of my way to make sure the percussion does not sound
like techno, but more like metal or trip hop(No 4/4 timing). Originally
I was just going to do industrial, but any remnant of life in that music
form has been butchered by bands like Gravity kills, and countless other
buzz clip bnds. In my eyes Trent is a genius, he realizes others are
trying to steal his fire, that's why he 's opening himself up to other
styles. And if the perfect drug is any indication, the transformation
will work well. And still complte idiots keep ripping him apart, they
don't realize that the entire catalog of Bush music can't out do the
Downward spiral. But mowie, these fools only see music in an economic
light, not as art. Reznor is an artist, not a mere musician. Bands like
bush and their ilk are just musicians, actually more like puppets than
anything remotely human. This world of Bush and Gravity sends a bad
example to everyone, if you want fame and money just copy other bands
that have them. Influences are one thing, but when you sound almost
exactly like another band, their is something wrong. David Bowie's new
album is brilliant. During the Bowie, nails tour, I was worried that
Bowie's sound would be too greatly affected by trent. Luckily I was
wrong, both Outside and Earthling are creative and imaginative works,
easily better than dare I say it 99% of the bands on the top 40. Perhaps
you'd like to know What I like on the radio, it's a rather short but
eccentric list, and keep in mind some of these groups are barely played
1. Tori Amos
2. Nine inch nails
3. the cure
4. Skinny puppy(college radio)
5. depeche mode(some of it over 10 years old)
6. Smashing pumpkins
7. Garbage
8. nirvana
Well you have some idea, most of what I like like Ministry and skinny, is
almost never played. I hope that in the future people become less
idiotic and open themselves to electronic music, when it's done well it's
quite interesting. Though it looks like shit bands might rule forever.
On my local radio station they had a cage match. Underworld's Pearl's
girl vs. new crap by Matchbox 20, guess who won.
Perhaps the state of current music is what depresses reznor so
much. It's kind of funny that, the DJ didn't even bring up the fact that
without nails, there would be no gravity kills. Anyway, we know who is
right and who is wrong. PS. Get the lost Highway soundtrack it's
disturbing(anything Lynch related is) but it is also quite amazing
MoWie X wrote:
>
> Is it just me, or is every crappy top 40 rock radio & tv show ripping
> trent for his comments about Bush???
>
> This guy today (can't remember the station) was like "This Reznor guy
> has the audacity to criticize Bush.. I mean c'mon.. Reznor is one of
> the biggest reason rock stars have the lazy image stamped on them.
> While Bush is out changing music, Reznor is sitting around playing
> games. This guy puts out one CD (meaning reznor i believe) and he
> thinks he can shoot his mouth off"
>
> Ugh.. I hate the radio..
>
> P.S: After hearing shit like this, i recommend listening to "Burn"
> about 3 or 4 times..
>
> -Mal
--
Everything is butterflies and christmasy
e-mail address ewe...@milwaukee.tec.wi.us
MoWie X
blackrose
Michael Robert Ewert <ewe...@milwaukee.tec.wi.us> wrote:
<crapola snipped>
I'd just like to say for the record (and this is not exactly directed
100% at you, Michael) that I think all of you people who say that the
likes of Bush and Gravity Kills are "ripping" on Trent all need a
fucking head check.
Each of these groups (along with Sister Machine Gun, KMFDM, etcetcetc
et al) have as much their OWN spin and their OWN sound as Trent Reznor
ever had.
If you think Trent invented this music, then you people have never
listened to "Twitch" by Ministry or just about any pre-1989 Skinny
Puppy albums.
Was Trent ripping on them? Fuck no! He's just a fuckin' musician! He
likes music just like anybody else, but unlike your average music
lover, he has a knack for creating cool melodies and interesting music
himself that has a wide appeal. Sounds a LOT like Bush to me.
Don't quite get me wrong here. I love Gravity Kills, but I'm no Bush
fan. I just think that all of you people who fuckin' think Trent
invented music have your heads stuck up your asses too far. EVERYBODY
builds on what came before them, INCLUDING Trent Reznor. This doesn't
invalidate what they do.
Trent's been sitting on his ass for over 2 years...
Gimme a break with the Quake/Manson/Lost Highway bullshit - none of it
required monumental amounts of effort on his part, I'm making an album
right now and I know *exactly* how difficult it is to be doing so, and
while I don't discount it completely, I'm here to tell you it doesn't
take a godlike amount of effort.
Anyway, when a guy sits on his ass for 2 years, and then comes in and
criticizes bands like Bush and GK for doing PRECISELY what the fuck HE
did in 1988 (build on ideas created by bands that came before him), I
just wanna go: "shut up, dumbass, this ain't room temperature nuclear
fusion you're working on, here. It's music. We like your music, but
it's just *music* for Christs sake."
I hate it when artists start believing their fans. It makes me almost
as sick as the fans themselves (and I've seen some of the fan mail, I
don't mind telling you).
br
@-}-
2centavos
DaNSe MaCAbrE
On 20 Feb 1997 18:18:05 -0700, blac...@iglou.com (blackrose) wrote:
-=[Michael Robert Ewert <ewe...@milwaukee.tec.wi.us> wrote:
-=[
-=[<crapola snipped>
-=[
-=[I'd just like to say for the record (and this is not exactly directed
-=[100% at you, Michael) that I think all of you people who say that the
-=[likes of Bush and Gravity Kills are "ripping" on Trent all need a
-=[fucking head check.
-=[
-=[Each of these groups (along with Sister Machine Gun, KMFDM, etcetcetc
-=[et al) have as much their OWN spin and their OWN sound as Trent Reznor
-=[ever had.
-=[
-=[If you think Trent invented this music, then you people have never
-=[listened to "Twitch" by Ministry or just about any pre-1989 Skinny
-=[Puppy albums.
-=[
-=[Was Trent ripping on them? Fuck no! He's just a fuckin' musician! He
-=[likes music just like anybody else, but unlike your average music
-=[lover, he has a knack for creating cool melodies and interesting music
-=[himself that has a wide appeal. Sounds a LOT like Bush to me.
-=[
-=[Don't quite get me wrong here. I love Gravity Kills, but I'm no Bush
-=[fan. I just think that all of you people who fuckin' think Trent
-=[invented music have your heads stuck up your asses too far. EVERYBODY
-=[builds on what came before them, INCLUDING Trent Reznor. This doesn't
-=[invalidate what they do.
-=[
-=[Trent's been sitting on his ass for over 2 years...
-=[
-=[Gimme a break with the Quake/Manson/Lost Highway bullshit - none of it
-=[required monumental amounts of effort on his part, I'm making an album
-=[right now and I know *exactly* how difficult it is to be doing so, and
-=[while I don't discount it completely, I'm here to tell you it doesn't
-=[take a godlike amount of effort.
-=[
-=[Anyway, when a guy sits on his ass for 2 years, and then comes in and
-=[criticizes bands like Bush and GK for doing PRECISELY what the fuck HE
-=[did in 1988 (build on ideas created by bands that came before him), I
-=[just wanna go: "shut up, dumbass, this ain't room temperature nuclear
-=[fusion you're working on, here. It's music. We like your music, but
-=[it's just *music* for Christs sake."
-=[
-=[I hate it when artists start believing their fans. It makes me almost
-=[as sick as the fans themselves (and I've seen some of the fan mail, I
-=[don't mind telling you).
-=[
-=[br
-=[@-}-
-=[
-=[2centavos
-=[
Thanx for your "2 centavos." Most of the stuff (if not all of it) is
true. I am however displeased at what you said about him producing
stuff and how easy it is. Im leaving myself open since I dont know
shit about this and YOU seem to be Mr. Recordmakerknowitall, but come
on, atleast he is making something for us to feed off of! YOURE RIGHT!
HE IS LAZY! But go easy on the different ways he is "testing the
water." Im sure the Trent we all know and "hate" will be back as soon
as he takes that needed shower (and shaves a little "got some dirt on
your chin"). Other than that, thanx for the intellectual, yet
flame-worthy, reply.
PS please PLEASE say that you didnt direct them "inventing music" and
"rip-off" alligations at moi! Everything has its own originality and
uniqueness, cept (couldnt resist) OASIS (whom I love, but sometimes I
wanna strangle those "Monkee" wannabes ;) I HOPE I didnt say any of
that rip-off/inventing music stuff =(
Later Eric...
Steve W.
> Perhaps the state of current music is what depresses reznor so
> much. It's kind of funny that, the DJ didn't even bring up the fact that
> without nails, there would be no gravity kills. Anyway, we know who is
> right and who is wrong. PS. Get the lost Highway soundtrack it's
> disturbing(anything Lynch related is) but it is also quite amazing
I think that one thing that sets apart NIN from one-hit-wonder bands, is
demonstrated by the fact that you're reading this message. I think that
people recognize the musical talent and meaning behind Reznor's music.
Just the fact that people devote time to read something like a.m.nin
shows that the music has enough of an effect to spark that kind of
interest. Bands like Bush and Live might be able to sell 2 billion
albums to every 14 year old kid out there, but they don't have
sustainability like NIN.
In my mind, Reznor has been sucessful both creatively and economically
for almost 8 years. In that timespan, I can think of about 50 bands who
have been "the next big thing" who had their 15 minutes of fame and
disappeared.
Spanking Boy
> I think that one thing that sets apart NIN from one-hit-wonder bands, is
> demonstrated by the fact that you're reading this message. I think that
> people recognize the musical talent and meaning behind Reznor's music.
> Just the fact that people devote time to read something like a.m.nin
> shows that the music has enough of an effect to spark that kind of
> interest.
I'll now direct your attention to alt.music.bee-gees (among others)
> Bands like Bush and Live might be able to sell 2 billion
> albums to every 14 year old kid out there, but they don't have
> sustainability like NIN.
Yeah, a whole three albums you're referring to, right? (I'm not including
the re-mix albums in this figure, true, and am not counting Quake).
> In my mind, Reznor has been sucessful both creatively and economically
> for almost 8 years.
And when was TDS released? 1993? Four of your eight are ill-earned. Let's
wait until he come out with another album before we give him credit for the
'Doom' years.
> In that timespan, I can think of about 50 bands who
> have been "the next big thing" who had their 15 minutes of fame and
> disappeared.
Ok, nin is above the one-hit wonder bands. And damn proud of it.
P.S. No need to flame me.
blackrose
"Steve W." <ste...@uclink4.berkeley.edu> wrote:
>> Perhaps the state of current music is what depresses reznor so
>> much. It's kind of funny that, the DJ didn't even bring up the fact that
>> without nails, there would be no gravity kills.
If it bothers him so much, he oughtta get off his ass.
And how do you get the lameass idea that without Nails there would be
no Gravity Kills? Haven't you ever heard of Ministry? Skinny Puppy?
Nine Inch Nails is as derivative of these bands and others as Gravity
Kills is of Nine Inch Nails, but you guys treat Reznor as if he came
up with this shit out of the blue, and he's a god or something.
>I think that one thing that sets apart NIN from one-hit-wonder bands, is
>demonstrated by the fact that you're reading this message. I think that
>people recognize the musical talent and meaning behind Reznor's music.
>Just the fact that people devote time to read something like a.m.nin
>shows that the music has enough of an effect to spark that kind of
>interest. Bands like Bush and Live might be able to sell 2 billion
>albums to every 14 year old kid out there, but they don't have
>sustainability like NIN.
And time will tell if Gravity Kills or Sister Machine Gun or any of
them are one-hit wonders. Gravity Kills has one fan right here that is
looking as forward to their next album as I am Trents. I don't think
they will be one hit wonders, much as most of you wish they would be.
(In fact, Gravity Kills charted with two songs from their debut album,
"Guilty" and "Blame."
>In my mind, Reznor has been sucessful both creatively and economically
>for almost 8 years. In that timespan, I can think of about 50 bands who
>have been "the next big thing" who had their 15 minutes of fame and
>disappeared.
Far be it from me to have ol' Spanking Boy on my side, but I gotta
agree, Trent's last 4 years have been too much of him sitting on his
behind to have any credibility when he goes out and assaults bands
like Bush and GK.
br
@-}-
zomb
Spanking Boy wrote:
> Yeah, a whole three albums you're referring to, right? (I'm not including
> the re-mix albums in this figure, true, and am not counting Quake).
> wait until he come out with another album before we give him credit for the
> 'Doom' years.
I would much rather take quality over quantity. He could probably crank
out albums left and right, but that doesn't mean they're worth listening
to. So what if there's a three or four year gap between albums? They're
all good and that's what matters.
zomb
blackrose wrote:
> And time will tell if Gravity Kills or Sister Machine Gun or any of
> them are one-hit wonders. Gravity Kills has one fan right here that is
> looking as forward to their next album as I am Trents. I don't think
> they will be one hit wonders, much as most of you wish they would be.
> (In fact, Gravity Kills charted with two songs from their debut album,
> "Guilty" and "Blame."
First of all, I wouldn't go grouping SMG or Gravity Kills along with 90%
of the shit I hear on the radio. I dig both of those bands, think they
each have a distinctive sound, and would definately buy their next
release. I didn't agree with Reznor's comment about GK, either.
This is kind of unrealted, but I met both SMG and GK at a promo thing
when I was looking at records. It was completely by chance that I
happened to walk into this place when they were there. They were all
very cool in person and talked to me for like 10 minutes (since no one
else was there). The both signed some albums for me, gave me posters and
t-shirts. So, I'm biased to defend those bands based on the fact that
they were cool as hell...Anyway...
> Far be it from me to have ol' Spanking Boy on my side, but I gotta
> agree, Trent's last 4 years have been too much of him sitting on his
> behind to have any credibility when he goes out and assaults bands
> like Bush and GK.
You've got a point. But I would still rather take one good NIN album
over 10 Bush albums. Plus, it's not as if Reznor has been completely
idle..there was FTDS, Quake, NBK soundtrack, Lost Highway, the albums he
produced, the TDS tour, touring with Bowie and lots of hours sitting on
his ass playing doom in that 4 years.
-stark- [*WHAT* ever]
hey look! blac...@iglou.com (blackrose) wrote:
>Far be it from me to have ol' Spanking Boy on my side, but I gotta
>agree, Trent's last 4 years have been too much of him sitting on his
>behind to have any credibility when he goes out and assaults bands
>like Bush and GK.
blackrose?
in principle, i totally agree.
but this is *BUSH* we are talking about.
*BUSH*
empty, meaningless, pablum, rehashed nirvana soundalike crap. this band wasn't
even a fucking band in their home town. they were assembled and marketed to
fill the cobain void stateside.
they are everything that is wrong with music today. on the surface you'd think
that they had something...the look is right, the videos try to be "kewl"...
but it's an eggshell with no egg inside.
it's *BUSH*.
GK i dunno about, i have completely ignored everything after i heard
"Filter"...oops...i mean "Guilty" for the 23rd time in one day on Mtv.
"Hey Hey Hey, we're filter...
are you filter too?
we can't write original stuff
and we're getting treated rough
we're putting everything right in
and still they say we sound like nin
but we're filter too..."
my first impression of this band was that it was a cheap carbon copy. i agree,
reznor didn't innovate the genre. he just *CHANGED* it. made it into something
different.
that's the difference.
gk rehashed. filter rehashed, then rehased themselves for a full album, and a
soundtrack song. stabbing fuckwits rehash. bush rehashes. alanis just plain
sucks my asshole. if there were no Melvins/Nirvana blueprint for bush to
follow, who knows if they even would have formed.
oh, and i blame kenny loggins for hootie & the blowfish.
;-)
--
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(adv.) Completely - starkly (adv.) starkness (n.) - New Riverside Dictionary
blackrose
jst...@micro-net.com (-stark- [*WHAT* ever]) wrote:
>gk rehashed. filter rehashed, then rehased themselves for a full album, and a
>soundtrack song. stabbing fuckwits rehash. bush rehashes. alanis just plain
>sucks my asshole. if there were no Melvins/Nirvana blueprint for bush to
>follow, who knows if they even would have formed.
I'm talking GK, so I figured you'd be on my heels... ;)
Without going too into any type of an argument here, lemme clarify a
little about myself.
In my life, there have been a very few bands (3, to be exact) that
affected my life deeply, on whatever level. Nine Inch Nails was the
last of those three(I picked up PHM in 1990) and most definitely the
one that affected me the deepest.
These are the bands who's posters I buy and put on my walls - you see,
I don't *do* that sort of thing. And yet, for these special musical
groups, I feel compelled to.
That's why I post in this newsgroup, that's why #nin was my first and
last IRC channel. For me, though, it wasn't the music of NIN so much
as it was what he was "saying" lyrically that affected me so deeply. I
wasn't into Ministry or Skinny Puppy or any of it... so NIN has always
been new to me.
Now, groups like Bush, Alanis, Nirvana, maybe it's because I don't
have MTV and I don't get burned-the-fuck-out with them, but I think
all of these groups have something about them that is interesting,
something about them that is attractive. I happen to think the intro
to "Machinehead" by Bush is a very cool piece of music! So sue me!
Ditto Stabbing Westward (If every song they did was as good as "What
Do I Have To Do?" I'd be their biggest fan), ditto Filter ("Hey Man,
Nice Shot"), ditto Alanis, ditto Bush, ditto all of them! They will
never be as good as NIN, but my whole point here is that I don't feel
Trent has a right to slam on them.
Will I be putting a Bush poster on my wall? No... Will I *ever* love
Bush like I love NIN? Fuck no! BUT: What about that little 13-year-old
girl to whom Bush means the world? See, I went through this same
elitist bullshit in 1985 when I loved Duran Duran with all my heart.
Sure, it's cool to like Duran Duran *now*... we all grew up with them.
But do you folks remember 1985? How hard it was to be a Duran fan and
not get persecuted by the cockrock set that we all revile so much here
and now in 1997?
A word about Gravity Kills: (this one is going to earn me a flame) I'm
here to tell you that Gravity Kills makes more melodically
interesting music than any Nine Inch Nails song ever written (except
maybe "Closer"). Maybe that's what Trent is about, I don't know,
discordance or whatever.
But Trent's attempt at making a more melodic song (as expressed by
TPD) sounds, IMHO, lame compared to the incredibly interesting music
of Gravity Kills. I also saw GK live about a month ago, and they had
the most upbeat fun attitude that I have ever seen in a band.
Put these ingredients together, and you may have a new poster headed
for my walls, if their sophomore effort impresses me as much as their
debut. And Trent Reznor has the balls to say they A)suck and they
B)are ripping him off.
He couldn't write a song that was as catchy as "Guilty" on his best
day (god love him).
Oh man, am I gonna get it. But, I always speak my mind.
>oh, and i blame kenny loggins for hootie & the blowfish.
Well, so do I.
Hootie really could die tomorrow and I wouldn't mind.
br
@-}-
MoWie X
>something about them that is attractive. I happen to think the intro
>to "Machinehead" by Bush is a very cool piece of music! So sue me!
>Ditto Stabbing Westward (If every song they did was as good as "What
>Do I Have To Do?" I'd be their biggest fan), ditto Filter ("Hey Man,
>Nice Shot"), ditto Alanis, ditto Bush, ditto all of them! They will
>never be as good as NIN, but my whole point here is that I don't feel
>Trent has a right to slam on them.
>He couldn't write a song that was as catchy as "Guilty" on his best
>day (god love him).
>Oh man, am I gonna get it. But, I always speak my mind.
>br
>@-}-
So are you saying you are into Top 40 only??? Because that's what it
sounds like..
If that's the case.. Just listen to the radio..
NINININININININININININIINININININININININININININININ
[{MoWie_X}] System Op For the downward spiral BBS (tm)
(902)849-0495 Canada's Unofficial Nine Inch Nails BBS.
"I wanna break it up, I wanna smash it up"
NININININININININININININININININININININININININININ
Jen Van Dijk
blackrose wrote:
>
> jst...@micro-net.com (-stark- [*WHAT* ever]) wrote:
>
> >gk rehashed. filter rehashed, then rehased themselves for a full album, and a
> >soundtrack song. stabbing fuckwits rehash. bush rehashes. alanis just plain
> >sucks my asshole. if there were no Melvins/Nirvana blueprint for bush to
> >follow, who knows if they even would have formed.
>
> I'm talking GK, so I figured you'd be on my heels... ;)
>
> Without going too into any type of an argument here, lemme clarify a
> little about myself.
>
> In my life, there have been a very few bands (3, to be exact) that
> affected my life deeply, on whatever level. Nine Inch Nails was the
> last of those three(I picked up PHM in 1990) and most definitely the
> one that affected me the deepest.
>
> These are the bands who's posters I buy and put on my walls - you see,
> I don't *do* that sort of thing. And yet, for these special musical
> groups, I feel compelled to.
>
> That's why I post in this newsgroup, that's why #nin was my first and
> last IRC channel. For me, though, it wasn't the music of NIN so much
> as it was what he was "saying" lyrically that affected me so deeply. I
> wasn't into Ministry or Skinny Puppy or any of it... so NIN has always
> been new to me.
>
> Now, groups like Bush, Alanis, Nirvana, maybe it's because I don't
> have MTV and I don't get burned-the-fuck-out with them, but I think
> something about them that is attractive. I happen to think the intro
> to "Machinehead" by Bush is a very cool piece of music! So sue me!
> Ditto Stabbing Westward (If every song they did was as good as "What
> Do I Have To Do?" I'd be their biggest fan), ditto Filter ("Hey Man,
> Nice Shot"), ditto Alanis, ditto Bush, ditto all of them! They will
> never be as good as NIN, but my whole point here is that I don't feel
> Trent has a right to slam on them.
>
> Bush like I love NIN? Fuck no! BUT: What about that little 13-year-old
> girl to whom Bush means the world? See, I went through this same
> elitist bullshit in 1985 when I loved Duran Duran with all my heart.
> Sure, it's cool to like Duran Duran *now*... we all grew up with them.
> But do you folks remember 1985? How hard it was to be a Duran fan and
> not get persecuted by the cockrock set that we all revile so much here
> and now in 1997?
>
> A word about Gravity Kills: (this one is going to earn me a flame) I'm
> here to tell you that Gravity Kills makes more melodically
> interesting music than any Nine Inch Nails song ever written (except
> maybe "Closer"). Maybe that's what Trent is about, I don't know,
> discordance or whatever.
> But Trent's attempt at making a more melodic song (as expressed by
> TPD) sounds, IMHO, lame compared to the incredibly interesting music
> of Gravity Kills. I also saw GK live about a month ago, and they had
> the most upbeat fun attitude that I have ever seen in a band.
>
> Put these ingredients together, and you may have a new poster headed
> for my walls, if their sophomore effort impresses me as much as their
> debut. And Trent Reznor has the balls to say they A)suck and they
> B)are ripping him off.
>
> day (god love him).
>
> Oh man, am I gonna get it. But, I always speak my mind.
>
>
> Well, so do I.
>
> Hootie really could die tomorrow and I wouldn't mind.
>
> br
> @-}-
Hey blackrose, who were the other two bands? I mean the ones who really
affected you.
Jen
indigo
zomb wrote:
>
> But I would still rather take one good NIN album
> over 10 Bush albums.
i'm not 'gonna bother responding to the rest of this thread since i
would just be repeating myself once again, but i'd just like to say that
the highlighted statement is very redundant...
oh, and i apologize but i just can't bring myself to respect someone's
musical taste that much if they like gravity kills. sorry if that
offends anyone...
indigo
np: carter burwell, _fargo/barton_fink_soundtrack_
zomb
indigo wrote:
> oh, and i apologize but i just can't bring myself to respect someone's
> musical taste that much if they like gravity kills. sorry if that
> offends anyone...
...and I can't respect someone who feels the need to apologize just for
stating their opinions. On that note, I will reiterate mine: I would
still take any NIN album over 10 Bush albums. I like Gravity Kills. I
like blondes more than brunettes. I like spinach and not lima beans.
It gets tiresome to quibble over points of individual taste. Discussion
over. Thread Dead.
blackrose
indigo <str...@lm.com> wrote:
>oh, and i apologize but i just can't bring myself to respect someone's
>musical taste that much if they like gravity kills. sorry if that
>offends anyone...
I can't respect YOU for losing respect for someone just because they
might like a band you don't like.
That's about the most closed-minded attitude I can think of.
br
@-}-
blackrose
malc...@atcon.com (MoWie X) wrote:
>So are you saying you are into Top 40 only??? Because that's what it
>sounds like..
>If that's the case.. Just listen to the radio..
Where the fuck do you get THAT from?
br
@-}-
blackrose
Jen Van Dijk <vand...@oro.net> wrote:
>Hey blackrose, who were the other two bands? I mean the ones who really
>affected you.
>Jen
Besides NIN? Duran Duran in 1982 and Information Society in 1985.
br
@-}-
S.B.
> oh, and i apologize but i just can't bring myself to respect someone's
> musical taste that much if they like gravity kills. sorry if that
> offends anyone...
>
> np: carter burwell, _fargo/barton_fink_soundtrack_
I can't respect anybody who think's the Beatles suck. I can't respect
anybody who likes Michael Bolton.
Jody
MoWie X <malc...@atcon.com> wrote:
> >something about them that is attractive. I happen to think the intro
> >to "Machinehead" by Bush is a very cool piece of music! So sue me!
> >Ditto Stabbing Westward (If every song they did was as good as "What
> >Do I Have To Do?" I'd be their biggest fan), ditto Filter ("Hey Man,
> >Nice Shot"), ditto Alanis, ditto Bush, ditto all of them! They will
> >never be as good as NIN, but my whole point here is that I don't feel
> >Trent has a right to slam on them.
> >He couldn't write a song that was as catchy as "Guilty" on his best
> >day (god love him).
> >Oh man, am I gonna get it. But, I always speak my mind.
> >br
> >@-}-
> So are you saying you are into Top 40 only??? Because that's what it
> sounds like..
> If that's the case.. Just listen to the radio..
ok... i read and reread the post... where the hell did you get *that*
from?!
love and friends,
jody :)
--
***************************************************************************
jody tamar match:) (jo-jo on #amnin & #nin) e-mail:jo...@jobu.net
"stay sane inside insanity" - columbia
"fare thee well... let your life proceed by its own design." - gd
"all that is now...all that is gone...all that's to come... and everything
under the sun is in tune but the sun is eclipsed by the moon..." - pf
http://www.amnin.com/jojo - #amnin rogues gallery
__________________AmNinCode v1.0____________________
N++ L+ H+ B++ M- T- U++ I++ P+ F+ S+ NC V R+ * D PB+ I Am Elitist! :)
____________________________________________________
Jody
Chris Lebeck <leb...@mrlxp2.mrl.uiuc.edu> wrote:
> befo you get served, beotch.
> Click
was that supposed to be funny?! i don't get it.
blackrose
Chris Lebeck <leb...@mrlxp2.mrl.uiuc.edu> wrote:
>blackrose wrote:
>No actually it was probably Whitesnake and Nelson. Watchout blackrose
>befo you get served, beotch.
Ha! you know what's funny? I actually have both of those albums!
See, I can't be embarrassed, if that's what you were trying. My days
of shame and guilt are gone forever. Take me or leave me.
br
@-}-
Robert Svihla
> hey look! blac...@iglou.com (blackrose) wrote:
>
>>Far be it from me to have ol' Spanking Boy on my side, but I gotta
>>agree, Trent's last 4 years have been too much of him sitting on his
>>behind to have any credibility when he goes out and assaults bands
>>like Bush and GK.
>
>
>
>blackrose?
>
>in principle, i totally agree.
>
>but this is *BUSH* we are talking about.
you just like saying that word :)
>*BUSH*
can't get enuf of it, eh?
>empty, meaningless, pablum, rehashed nirvana soundalike crap. this band wasn't
>even a fucking band in their home town. they were assembled and marketed to
>fill the cobain void stateside.
>
>they are everything that is wrong with music today. on the surface you'd think
>that they had something...the look is right, the videos try to be "kewl"...
>
>but it's an eggshell with no egg inside.
nifty analogy
>it's *BUSH*.
damn, you fuckin' LOVE that word :)
>GK i dunno about, i have completely ignored everything after i heard
>"Filter"...oops...i mean "Guilty" for the 23rd time in one day on Mtv.
>
>"Hey Hey Hey, we're filter...
>are you filter too?
>we can't write original stuff
>and we're getting treated rough
>we're putting everything right in
>and still they say we sound like nin
>but we're filter too..."
HAHAHAH!!!!!!!!
>my first impression of this band was that it was a cheap carbon copy. i agree,
>reznor didn't innovate the genre. he just *CHANGED* it. made it into something
>different.
>
>that's the difference.
>
>gk rehashed. filter rehashed, then rehased themselves for a full album, and a
>soundtrack song. stabbing fuckwits rehash. bush rehashes. alanis just plain
>sucks my asshole. if there were no Melvins/Nirvana blueprint for bush to
>follow, who knows if they even would have formed.
you forgot the Pixies... everytime Gavin gives an interview, he claims
that the Pixies are the band he's trying to emulate ... i dunno how
close he comes, but it's still mentionable.
>oh, and i blame kenny loggins for hootie & the blowfish.
OUCH!, but very very true...
i can still remember those songs _Footloose_ and _Danger Zone_ ....
<shudder>
Robman
Robert Svihla, author of the Official Collide FAQ
http://www.netrail.net/~robman
Robman23 on #amnin
Jen Van Dijk
Chris Lebeck wrote:
>
> blackrose wrote:
> >
> > Jen Van Dijk <vand...@oro.net> wrote:
> >
> > >Hey blackrose, who were the other two bands? I mean the ones who really
> > >affected you.
> >
> > >Jen
> >
> > Besides NIN? Duran Duran in 1982 and Information Society in 1985.
> >
> > br
> > @-}-
> befo you get served, beotch.
>
>
> "Into each life some rain must fall, Some days must be dark and dreary."
> Henry Longfellow.
Your coolness astounds me. Really. I swear.
Jen
MoWie X
>ok... i read and reread the post... where the hell did you get *that*
>from?!
>love and friends,
>jody :)
Ummm, "What do I have to do", "Hey man nice shot" are the only two
radio friendly songs that filter and stabbing westward have released.
*THAT* is where I got it from.
-stark- [*WHAT* ever]
hey look! malc...@atcon.com wrote:
jojo said:
>>ok... i read and reread the post... where the hell did you get *that*
>>from?!
>Ummm, "What do I have to do", "Hey man nice shot" are the only two
>radio friendly songs that filter and stabbing westward have released.
>
>*THAT* is where I got it from.
stabbing had a minor charter off 'UnGod', and filter also charted with
'jurrasitol', aka: 'hey man nice shot part 36 (reprise)'
indigo
In article <5erauo$l...@nnrp1.news.primenet.com>,
blac...@iglou.com (blackrose) wrote:
>
> indigo <str...@lm.com> wrote:
>
> >oh, and i apologize but i just can't bring myself to respect someone's
> >musical taste that much if they like gravity kills. sorry if that
> >offends anyone...
>
> might like a band you don't like.
i didn't lose respect for *you*, i lost respect for your taste in
music. which doesn't mean anything except if u recommended a band to me
i might think twice. that's it, _nothing_ more. i'm not assuming that
i'm right either. i haven't lost _any_ respect for you as a person.
> That's about the most closed-minded attitude I can think of.
i agree w/ that totally.
btw, fwiw(shit that's too many letters...), i think you're page is funny
as hell and wish u luck in keeping it up.
> br
> @-}-
indigo
indigo
i just looked at the post i just did and saw how shitty everything's
alligned. it was a cut/paste job and it got fucked up. sorry 'bout
that...oh, and blame my news server...
indigo
indigo
In article <33110B...@xmission.com>,
zomb <zom...@xmission.com> wrote:
>
> indigo wrote:
> > oh, and i apologize but i just can't bring myself to respect
someone's
> > musical taste that much if they like gravity kills. sorry if that
> > offends anyone...
>
for
> stating their opinions. On that note, I will reiterate mine: I would
> still take any NIN album over 10 Bush albums. I like Gravity Kills.
I
> like blondes more than brunettes. I like spinach and not lima beans.
stating
my opinions. i was pretty much trying to not come off as a pompous
asshole, which i did anyway so i guess it didn't really help much, did
it?:) i'm just saying i don't respect their *musical* opinion. this
doesn't mean that i have anything against the person w/ the opinion,
or
don't recognize their right to have a different opinion. it also
doesn't
mean i wouldn't respect them for many other things. i don't even
respect
my own taste for food. i have shitty taste in food. of course,
i am
allergic to milkfat so it is quite a difficulty... oh, and as long as
we're expressing opinions... i would take one remix of a single of any
song done by trent than any number of bush albums. i dislike gk,
generally prefer brunettes, tho i don't usually worry too much about
hair
color or most physical traits, and i've never had spinach or lima
beans
so i wouldn't know if i liked them or not. they look rather
disgusting
to me but i shall have to try them sometime and see if i like them...
> It gets tiresome to quibble over points of individual taste.
Discussion
> over. Thread Dead.
oh yeah, another opinion. i hate telerama's lame-ass news server.
and yes i am aware i should give up and make that my .sig...
Jody
MoWie X <malc...@atcon.com> wrote:
> >ok... i read and reread the post... where the hell did you get *that*
> >from?!
> >love and friends,
> >jody :)
> Ummm, "What do I have to do", "Hey man nice shot" are the only two
> radio friendly songs that filter and stabbing westward have released.
>
> *THAT* is where I got it from.
>
<trying to recall the original post since it was snipped>
but still, what does that have to do with telling br to only listen to the
radio b/c he only likes top 40 music? just because someone likes some
music on the radio doesn't mean shit.
love and friends,
jody :)
--
*************************************************************************
jody tamar match:) (jo-jo on #amnin & #nin) jo...@deathsdoor.com
"stay sane inside insanity" - columbia
"fare thee well...let your life proceed by its own design." - gd
<stark> one day there are going to be 74 ninnies standing at my door,
pointing and saying "YOU! we haven't slept with you!"
R3ds0cks
blac...@iglou.com (blackrose) wrote:
>Jen Van Dijk <vand...@oro.net> wrote:
>
>>Hey blackrose, who were the other two bands? I mean the ones who really
>>affected you.
>
>Besides NIN? Duran Duran in 1982 and Information Society in 1985.
You said earlier about how difficult it was to be a Duran Duran fan back then
(it was a long post and I didn't feel like editing it down). My recollection
was it was awfully easy - if you were a girl. Their rep then was about the
same as Bush's is now: it was OK for girls to like them, but guys were
supposed to look down their noses at those "fags" (that was the word they
used) and like "real" bands like Judas Priest.
Information Society ... they had some good tunes, but I never got too serious
about them.
--
r3ds0cks
a.m.nin regular, #amnin semi-regular
member of LG3 (Lawn Guyland 31337), a division of NYCrew
matt...@li.net http://www.li.net/~matthewb/
<McYokes39> i can make chicks cum over a modem.
_________AmNinCode v1.0__________
N- L-- H+ B! M! T! U++ I P F
S+ NC- V- R D-- PB+
_________________________________
blackrose
matt...@li.net (R3ds0cks) wrote:
>You said earlier about how difficult it was to be a Duran Duran fan back then
>(it was a long post and I didn't feel like editing it down). My recollection
>was it was awfully easy - if you were a girl. Their rep then was about the
>same as Bush's is now: it was OK for girls to like them, but guys were
>supposed to look down their noses at those "fags" (that was the word they
>used) and like "real" bands like Judas Priest.
It was easy to be a fan of Duran Duran in 1984 (yes, you're right,
especially for a girl)... but I was talking more along the lines of
1987, when they reunited and released "Notorious" - at the height of
the "Bon Jovi" "Poison" "Warrant" "Skid Row" scene... *everyone*
thought Duran Duran sucked... even girls.
It blew my mind, really. I'd been with the Durans since 1982, and I
never thought anyone so popular could get so low so fast. Alas, the
cockrockers didn't have their time on the stage too long, did they?
>Information Society ... they had some good tunes, but I never got too serious
>about them.
They were so incredible. Since I had to go underground with my love
for Duran Duran, I had to find something I liked that *wasn't* what I
deemed mainstream cockrock bullshit. InSoc just made me practically
cream my shorts when I first heard them, and although their demise
began when they released "Hack" - I still think it's one of the
greatest albums of all time. You should look for it some time... you'd
be pleasantly surprised, I think. I think anyone would!
br
@-}-
blackrose
malc...@atcon.com (MoWie X) wrote:
>>ok... i read and reread the post... where the hell did you get *that*
>>from?!
>>love and friends,
>>jody :)
>Ummm, "What do I have to do", "Hey man nice shot" are the only two
>radio friendly songs that filter and stabbing westward have released.
>
>*THAT* is where I got it from.
Oh, ok... I see what you mean, but no.
In fact, most of the music I like is not on top 40 radio, and although
I like some top 40 music (I'm incapable of feeling shame, remember?)
it can't be said that it's the only thing I would listen to.
Lemme tell you what my theory is:
See, I believe that there is a *reason* why songs make it into the
top40. The reason? They are *good* songs (I define "good" as
melodically sound) and they have a broad appeal. Hence, they sell
records, hence, they make top40 radio.
If it just so happens that "Hey Man Nice Shot" was the only song off
of Filter's debut that made it into the top40, then, if we follow my
logic, it would follow that it's the *only* song on the album that's
worth a fuck.
Now, I *have* Filter's album, and I saw 'em live, and I can tell
you... "Hey Man Nice Shot" *is* the only song on that album that's
even halfway good.
So it made top40 radio.
Ditto Stabbing Westward (while I happen to think that "Wither" is
considerably better than Filter's debut by about a million miles)
In some alternate reality somewhere, I could be saying the same thing
about "Head Like A Hole" - which hit top40 radio. If HLAH was the ONLY
song on PHM that didn't SUCK, then NIN would just be another lame band
like all the rest. It just so happens that ALL of PHM is musically
wonderful, and so here we are.
Some musical outfits, like Alanis (and Bush), prove us all wrong by
their very sales. I'll never own an Alanis Morissette poster (nor
Bush), but that doesn't change the fact that as a musician, I think
her music is pretty damn catchy, and also very sound. (I saw her live,
too, and her band was really tight! Far tighter than NIN was when I
saw them in Atlanta) Many millions of people agree. What makes an
artist worth something? Whether or not NIN fans think they are good?
Whether or not Trent Reznor says they are cool? Or whether they sell a
lot of records and say what THEY want to say?
Trent rips on the "go down on you in a theater" lyric - but for
Christ's sake, man, have you heard "Ringfinger" off of the "Purest
Feeling" demo? Flood had to have heard that song and went: "hey Trent,
man, nice song... but Jesus! We've gotta change these dumbass lyrics."
My point is, was, and always shall be: just because all these bands we
are talking about aren't NIN, and their albums don't stack up to NIN,
doesn't negate the fact that the songs that they had that happened to
hit top40 were *good* songs!
And Trent just pisses all over them.
It's just... not good form, that's all. I myself intend to always be
gracious in matters like these, because that's the sign of a decent
person.
br
@-}-
who wishes he could say this stuff without it sounding like he didn't
think Nine Inch Nails was the greatest band ever, because he really
does.
zomb
-stark- [*WHAT* ever] wrote:
> stabbing had a minor charter off 'UnGod', and filter also charted with
> 'jurrasitol', aka: 'hey man nice shot part 36 (reprise)'
Come now. I think you're being a bit rough on ol' Filter. Let's look at
the chorus for each song:
"Hey Old Man Got Something For You" - Jurrasitol
"Hey Man Nice Shot" - Hey Man Nice Shot
As you can see, the two predominant lines in these songs are completely
different. I don't see how you could confuse the two. =]
(Incidentally, I still dig Filter..even though every song sounds the
same)
Jason Graham
I love Gravity Kills, but they did rip off a lot of style. I don't side
with Trent's anger, because I think that there is a huge gap in industrial
that was unaddressed until Gravity Kills showed up. I have always said
that there is no album in the world that sounds like "Pretty Hate Machine"
(which is his most melodic album by the way. Closer is not melodic at all.
I don't know what you were talking about there.)
There was a huge gap for fans that wanted melodic industrial because
everyone went completely heavy with the style. Along comes Gravity Kills
some six years later, and dishes up an album reminiscent of PHM, and it is
great. I love where Trent has gone, and I love every song as well as his
sense of pleasurable discord, but its nice to have some fresh music.
BTW, obviously this is opinion, but I think that NIN's most melodic song is
"Ringfinger" off of PHM. Check it out.
Also, he did write one as catchy as "Guilty" its called "Head Like A Hole"
and (sorry mainstreamers) about a zillion
people know the song.
spawn
>
> A word about Gravity Kills: (this one is going to earn me a flame) I'm
> here to tell you that Gravity Kills makes more melodically
> interesting music than any Nine Inch Nails song ever written (except
> maybe "Closer"). Maybe that's what Trent is about, I don't know,
> discordance or whatever.
> But Trent's attempt at making a more melodic song (as expressed by
> TPD) sounds, IMHO, lame compared to the incredibly interesting music
> of Gravity Kills. I also saw GK live about a month ago, and they had
> the most upbeat fun attitude that I have ever seen in a band.
>
> Put these ingredients together, and you may have a new poster headed
> for my walls, if their sophomore effort impresses me as much as their
> debut. And Trent Reznor has the balls to say they A)suck and they
> B)are ripping him off.
>
zomb
Alicat wrote:
> Thank you! Over the last month I have been watching MTV for the first
> time in many years solely for the purpose of seeing/hearing "The
> Perfect Drug", and am totally and completely appalled by Bush and Live
> but they clearly prefer Bush and the really embarrassing Spice Girls.
Seeing the Spice Girls on MTV at a friend's house did two things for me:
1. Gave me the impulse to go commit random acts of senseless violence
upon innocent victims.
2. Made me glad I don't own a television.
-stark- [*WHAT* ever]
hey look! Hope Raudive <jwm...@psu.edu> wrote:
>...trent, on the other hand, actually has something to say
>conceptually with his music, and even though most of the fanbase probably
>doesn't get it, it doesn't matter - it's still there
thank you, hope.
you just proved my marilyn manson point.
99% of the people listening to MM don't get it. .5% get half of it, and .5%
understand.
and it doesn't matter if you (the royal 'you'!) don't understand...it's still
there.
great way to sum it up.
The Prophet
> Jason Graham wrote:
> >
> > I love Gravity Kills, but they did rip off a lot of style. I don't > > side with Trent's anger, because I think that there is a huge gap in > > industrial that was unaddressed until Gravity Kills showed up.
> Hope Raudive wrote:
> Yeah, if you completely ignore the existence of Chemlab, Stabbing
> Westward, and a million other bands who were inspired by Pretty Hate
> Machine.
Granted. BUT none of those groups have seemed to achieve the widespread
exposure that GK have attained recently. A track on Seven, Escape From
LA, The Extreme Games CD....they must be doing SOMETHING right. And I
LOVE chemlab.
>Jason Graham wrote:
> > There was a huge gap for fans that wanted melodic industrial because
> > everyone went completely heavy with the style. Along comes Gravity > > Kills some six years later, and dishes up an album reminiscent of
> >PHM, and it is great.
I'm sorry, but I just DO NOT see the similarity between the two albums.
>Hope Raudive wrote:
> unfortunately, bands like Stabbing Westward and Chemlab did it 3-4
> years before gravity kills, and both bands actually had ideas at one >time (imagine that) which separated them from the run-of-the-mill nin >copycats (like gk)
I can't see how GK can be considered a nin copycat. Nope, I honestly
just don't hear it. Jeff Scheel has referred to them in various
instances as "organized noise" and "metal with a dance beat". They
don't like the industrial tag.
>Jason Graham wrote:
> > I love where Trent has gone, and I love every song as well as his
> > sense of pleasurable discord, but its nice to have some fresh music.
>Hope Raudive wrote:
> hell, there's so much new music coming out that's it amazing anyone >would consider gravity kills "fresh" music...what's "fresh" about >re-hashing 6 year old ideas and adding nothing new to them?!? if you >want something fresh in the electronic genre, go pick up Aphex Twin's >new one, or Eyes of Stanley Pain by Download...and, hell, if you want >good melodies there's always Depeche Mode and Gary Numan (whose new >stuff is out of this world)
Agreed. But I still consider GK fresh. One of the few cds in my
collection that I can let autocycle over the course of an evening and
not get bored with. But that's just me. :) (one of the other ones is
"concentration")
>Jason Graham wrote:
> > BTW, obviously this is opinion, but I think that NIN's most melodic > >song is "Ringfinger" off of PHM. Check it out.
> > Also, he did write one as catchy as "Guilty" its called "Head Like A > > Hole" and(sorry mainstreamers) about a zillion people know thesong.
>Hope Raudive wrote:
> like, this is just opinion or something, but "guilty" has one of the >most generic melodies i have ever heard...for one thing, the main >guitar riff was *blatantly* ripped off of Machines of Loving Grace (the >song is "trigger for happiness")
Oh God. THATS what I'm hearing. Amazing. Just goes to show ya. I
listen to concentration constantly and just never made the connection.
But thats okay. I don't mind the occasional rip off as long as its not
done consistently. Seems to me I remember something about a David Bowie
that Trent basically ripped near note for note and when it was pointed
out to him later, he remarked "wow. I guess so! I never realized.." or
something to that effect. Who knows.....maybe it was subconscious,
maybe not. And I honestly can't remember the name of the track.
>Jason Graham wrote:
> > > I also saw GK live about a month ago, and they had
> > > the most upbeat fun attitude that I have ever seen in a band.
>Hope Raudive wrote:
> considering that they're lip-syncing to a DAT machine, yeah, I guess
> their live show is ok...i saw them out here in Pittsburgh, and it was
> *so* obvious that they weren't playing anything...
Once again, sorry. wrong answer. I saw them last September. I had the
advantage of being on the side of the stage for a most of the show.
Matt was pounding his bass, Kurt was slamming the drums, Doug was
DESTROYING his keyboard and Jeff was singing his guts out. They were
PLAYING. Fine, they use adats for a lot of the backtracks. Matter of
fact, they're adat broke before the show and Doug said, "we can't do the
show without it.". So you're telling me that Trent could go onstage and
do a complete show without his loops, samples, etc to back him up? I
don't mind a lot of electronics backing a band as long as I see them
working WITH it.
>Jason Graham wrote:
> > > Put these ingredients together, and you may have a new poster > > > headed for my walls, if their sophomore effort impresses me as > > > much as their debut. And Trent Reznor has the balls to say they A)suck > > > and they B)are ripping him off.
Did I mess something? In the interviews I read, I remember the GK
comment from Trent being more of a "ripping off" comment. I don't
remember him saying ANYTHING about "they suck."
>Hope Raudive wrote:
>on the other hand, they have *no* artistic focus >whatsoever, they just make music so that they can pocket their money >and get fame/girls...trent, on the other hand, actually has something >to say conceptually with his music, and even though most of the fanbase >probably doesn't get it, it doesn't matter -
Sorry. Wrong. Having had the luxury of talking to Jeff and Doug till
one in the morning when they played here with NO tape running, no
pressure to talk "carefully" and just bullshitting with them, I can
safely say they are not at all in it for the money/fame/girls. They're
in it for the music. They like to play, they like to record, they like
to put out music that people want to hear. Conceptual music is nice.
But sometimes I just enjoy hearing something that screams. They have NO
pretensions about "we're making art" or "we're taking music to another
level". They like to make music and play it.
>Jason Graham wrote:
> > > He couldn't write a song that was as catchy as "Guilty" on his
> > > best day (god love him).
Wrong answer, Recruit.
>Hope Raudive wrote:
> that's why "closer" and "the perfect drug" (and even "head like a > hole") are *so* much more mainstream popular than "guilty"...*what* ever
Okay, Jason is wrong. Incredibly wrong. I have the feeling that Trent
probably has a couple hundred Guiltys in him somewhere. I also think
thats not where Trent wants to be.
Prophet
ProphetScript: Hope, I LOVE the stuff from Raudive Voices! Bash me
with mail soon and remind me to get more in depth...........
--
___________________________________________________________________
"The dumber people think you are, the more surprised they're going
to be when you kill them."
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Hope Raudive
Jason Graham wrote:
>
> I love Gravity Kills, but they did rip off a lot of style. I don't side
> with Trent's anger, because I think that there is a huge gap in industrial
> that was unaddressed until Gravity Kills showed up.
Yeah, if you completely ignore the existence of Chemlab, Stabbing
Westward, and a million other bands who were inspired by Pretty Hate
Machine. God, every industrial compilation that came out in 1990-1992
had at least 1 track by someone who was trying to be trent.
> I have always said
> that there is no album in the world that sounds like "Pretty Hate Machine"
what about "some great reward" by depeche mode?!?
> (which is his most melodic album by the way. Closer is not melodic at all.
> I don't know what you were talking about there.)
um, most of the songs on phm involve simple melody lines during the
verses, and then screamed, monotone choruses...closer on the other hand,
has a melody line that is, in trent's words, very Prince like...maybe the
layers of sound are just too complex <g> and the melodies get buried
under them...*shrug*..."i want to fuck you like an animal" is sung to a
more complex melody than "head like a hole - etc." which is very
monotone...
> There was a huge gap for fans that wanted melodic industrial because
> everyone went completely heavy with the style. Along comes Gravity Kills
> some six years later, and dishes up an album reminiscent of PHM, and it is
> great.
unfortunately, bands like Stabbing Westward and Chemlab did it 3-4 years
before gravity kills, and both bands actually had ideas at one time
(imagine that) which separated them from the run-of-the-mill nin copycats
(like gk)
> I love where Trent has gone, and I love every song as well as his
> sense of pleasurable discord, but its nice to have some fresh music.
hell, there's so much new music coming out that's it amazing anyone would
consider gravity kills "fresh" music...what's "fresh" about re-hashing 6
year old ideas and adding nothing new to them?!? if you want something
fresh in the electronic genre, go pick up Aphex Twin's new one, or Eyes
of Stanley Pain by Download...and, hell, if you want good melodies
there's always Depeche Mode and Gary Numan (whose new stuff is out of
this world)
> BTW, obviously this is opinion, but I think that NIN's most melodic song is
> "Ringfinger" off of PHM. Check it out.
> Also, he did write one as catchy as "Guilty" its called "Head Like A Hole"
> and (sorry mainstreamers) about a zillion
> people know the song.
like, this is just opinion or something, but "guilty" has one of the most
generic melodies i have ever heard...for one thing, the main guitar riff
was *blatantly* ripped off of Machines of Loving Grace (the song is
"trigger for happiness"), a band which actually has a unique artistic
vision, but still writes interesting, catchy songs...there's nothing
special melodically about Gravity Kills...just like in any other
"alternative" piece of shit band, the lead singer sings the same 3 notes
over and over and people with no grasp of how to create music say it's
melodically complex....*what* ever
> spawn
please don't :)
> > I also saw GK live about a month ago, and they had
> > the most upbeat fun attitude that I have ever seen in a band.
considering that they're lip-syncing to a DAT machine, yeah, I guess
their live show is ok...i saw them out here in Pittsburgh, and it was
*so* obvious that they weren't playing anything...
> > Put these ingredients together, and you may have a new poster headed
> > for my walls, if their sophomore effort impresses me as much as their
> > debut. And Trent Reznor has the balls to say they A)suck and they
> > B)are ripping him off.
a) they *do* suck, from an artistic point of view...yay, they can write
songs that are catchy - my fucking dad could do that, it's so formulaic
and bland...on the other hand, they have *no* artistic focus whatsoever,
they just make music so that they can pocket their money and get
fame/girls...trent, on the other hand, actually has something to say
conceptually with his music, and even though most of the fanbase probably
doesn't get it, it doesn't matter - it's still there
b) well, they are ripping him off...imho, they're ripping off machines of
loving grace, too, especially with the guitar riff to "guilty" which is
taken from "trigger to happiness"...but, anyway, trent was the first
person to fuse industrial, synth-pop, and punk into a popular culture
phenomenon...and he did it well...but he's moved on since then, which
bands like gravity kills never will do...they'll be permanently stuck in,
"gee, i wonder what trent's up to...he needs to put out a new album so we
have some ideas"-mode...but it's like that in any genre...you have a
handful of innovators (skinny puppy, early ministry, nine inch nails, and
download, once people start copying them - heh, if they can) and then the
rest of the genre becomes composed of people who are just mimicing those
innovators...
> > He couldn't write a song that was as catchy as "Guilty" on his best
> > day (god love him).
that's why "closer" and "the perfect drug" (and even "head like a hole")
are *so* much more mainstream popular than "guilty"...*what* ever
love,
hope
a.m.nin regular - #amnin semi-occasional-regular
---------------------------------------------------------
chaos in beauty - the raudive voices info. page
http://www.pitt.edu/~jwmst37/Voices.htm
---------------------------------------------------------
a walk in the sunshine - the sunshine blind page
featuring a *new* interview and info. on a *new* cd
http://www.pitt.edu/~amkst38/Sunshine.htm
Hope Raudive
-stark- [*WHAT* ever], for some reason or another, wrote something that
had little if anything to do with DICKS:
> >conceptually with his music, and even though most of the fanbase probably
> >doesn't get it, it doesn't matter - it's still there
um, yer welcome...
is that asskissing?!? :)
just tryin' to be careful...you know how it is, nowadays
> you just proved my marilyn manson point.
hmmm...don't recall what this is...i guess i should read further
> 99% of the people listening to MM don't get it. .5% get half of it, and .5%
> understand.
true...very true
this fits in with almost anything artistic, unfortunately...you'll always
have the 99% idiot fanbase into Clockwork Orange, William Burroughs,
Bladerunner, Taxi Driver, Van Gogh, Duchamp, Genesis P Orridge, NIN,
etc....it doesn't take away from the art though, especially for the 1%
who at least partially "get it"
> and it doesn't matter if you (the royal 'you'!) don't understand...it's still
> there.
*exactly*
it's funny how people criticize manson and nin for their fanbase, but
then they go out and proclaim their coolness by listening to something
that has no musical/conceptual content but is on the borderline between
obscurity and mainstream (you know the line - it's that point where it's
*just* obscure enough that your average 12 year old doesn't like it but
cool/hip 16-20 year olds do)
of course, the argument most people have against nin and manson (in
particular) could be used against almost any piece of art history...these
people would probably have hated Van Goh because he capitalized on his
ear-cutting-giving-it-to-a-prostitute encounter by painting a self
portrait of himself minus the earlobe...sure, the content would be there,
but he FUCKING SOLD OUT!!! :) just think of the little late 1800's kids
with the Van Goh t-shirts and their ears wrapped up :P
heh...the other day some drunken fratboy wandered by the local coffee
shop acting blatantly ignorant (i'm not prejudice against fratboys, mind
you - just the stupid ones) and i noticed he was wearing a manson
shirt...i said something really loud to one of my friends along the lines
of "heh heh...like, lets go beat the shit outta some fags...lord manson
told me too in that 1996 song...heh...he's alternative or some shit"...lo
and behold, said fratboy heard me and walked over and said "what did you
say faggot?!?"
needless to say, my chocalate chip cookie dough/rootbeer float didn't
feel to good coming out of my nose :)
i swear to god, i nearly died
> great way to sum it up.
thanks...i could have said it better, though...i should have found a way
to work "DICKS" into it, somehow...*damn* :)
blackrose
"Jason Graham" <sp...@eznet.com> wrote:
>I love Gravity Kills, but they did rip off a lot of style. I don't side
>with Trent's anger, because I think that there is a huge gap in industrial
>that was unaddressed until Gravity Kills showed up. I have always said
>that there is no album in the world that sounds like "Pretty Hate Machine"
>(which is his most melodic album by the way. Closer is not melodic at all.
> I don't know what you were talking about there.)
Well, I have to agree with you on just about everything you say here,
except that uh, "Closer" is about the most melodic song he did since
PHM, I can't imagine why you (or anyone) would think otherwise. "The
Becoming?" Now *that's a non-melodic song.
>There was a huge gap for fans that wanted melodic industrial because
>everyone went completely heavy with the style. Along comes Gravity Kills
>some six years later, and dishes up an album reminiscent of PHM, and it is
>great. I love where Trent has gone, and I love every song as well as his
>sense of pleasurable discord, but its nice to have some fresh music.
Isn't THAT the truth? That's what's so great about GK! I love their
music, and it appeals to a fan like me because I like NIN-style
Industrial, but my old-school background bred in me a love of great
and catchy melodies.
Duran Duran. Sorry, I just *had* to say it one more time. :)
>BTW, obviously this is opinion, but I think that NIN's most melodic song is
>"Ringfinger" off of PHM. Check it out.
>Also, he did write one as catchy as "Guilty" its called "Head Like A Hole"
>and (sorry mainstreamers) about a zillion
>people know the song.
While I think "HLAH" is definitely catchy, I don't think it comes
anywhere *near* "Guilty" but yet again we're getting into opinions and
shit... you know? "Ringfinger" comes closest in catchiness, I would
say... but I still say GK has Melodic Industrial (a new genre? I
*told* you GK had their own spin!)
br
@-}-
blackrose
Hope Raudive <jwm...@psu.edu> wrote:
>> I have always said
>> that there is no album in the world that sounds like "Pretty Hate Machine"
>what about "some great reward" by depeche mode?!?
And "Twitch" by Ministry! Dear GOD that album has PHM written all OVER
it!
br
@-}-
blackrose
Hope Raudive <jwm...@psu.edu> wrote:
>unfortunately, bands like Stabbing Westward and Chemlab did it 3-4 years
>before gravity kills, and both bands actually had ideas at one time
>(imagine that) which separated them from the run-of-the-mill nin copycats
>(like gk)
I've heard both Chemlab and SW, and I like neither of them enough to
have bought any of their material. I love GK. So who are you (or
anyone) to tell me that they are "run of the mill copycats" compared
to these bands? Please don't spout a personal opinion as if it were
fact. Music is all about personal taste!
GK have an excellent sound, and you can spout off all the names of
other bands who "did it before" but it doesn't mean SHIT to a guy like
me who has heard it all and thinks GK's shit sounds better than any of
it by a LONG shot. So why is my opinion invalid? Nobody has explained
this to me yet.
>> I love where Trent has gone, and I love every song as well as his
>> sense of pleasurable discord, but its nice to have some fresh music.
>hell, there's so much new music coming out that's it amazing anyone would
>consider gravity kills "fresh" music...what's "fresh" about re-hashing 6
>year old ideas and adding nothing new to them?!?
Maybe it's that the 6-year-old ideas, as expressed by the bands you
are espousing, sound like shit in my opinion (and in many other
people's opinions).
>> > I also saw GK live about a month ago, and they had
>> > the most upbeat fun attitude that I have ever seen in a band.
>considering that they're lip-syncing to a DAT machine, yeah, I guess
>their live show is ok...i saw them out here in Pittsburgh, and it was
>*so* obvious that they weren't playing anything...
I saw them 2 months ago in Phoenix, and it was quite obvious they were
playing a LOT of it and lip-synching NONE of it (not to mention that
the keyboard player has the coolest stand in the free universe). No
fair hitting below the belt because they made the mistake of
lip-synching as a young band!
Of course, to sound good, no tech-oriented band plays everything -
there are always tapes running, even in NIN shows, I have news for
you. Those electronic drums and hi-hats and various samples aren't all
triggered by the manic band members... and in some cases (like the
NIN/Bowie show in Atlanta where the keyboard player fucked up the fast
keyboard parts in "Wish" and assorted other songs so badly that I was
getting pissed off about it) they SHOULD be playing from a tape
because they play it so shitty live that it sounds ridiculous.
>a) they *do* suck, from an artistic point of view...yay, they can write
>songs that are catchy - my fucking dad could do that, it's so formulaic
>and bland...
I'm an artist. I'm a musician. I'm a damn good musician. I consider
myself an excellent artist, and I invite you to read the lyrics to my
songs, because I think I have something to say. I think a lot of
people I know here would back me up on that, too... even stark, who I
know stalwartly disagrees with me about GK. And I resent the
implication that if I like GK, I must be a musical retard. And I also
resent the implication that writing catchy music makes you a
non-artistic, no-count bass-ackward nobody. In fact, it's my assertion
that in a sea of shitty and discordant "industrial" music, the only
way to be truly original is to write catchy songs. Nobody else is
doing it!
I will give you ONE THING about GK. Their lyrics are just plain flat
out STUPID. (Almost as stupid as "TPD") I hope against hope that the
reason is because they were in such a rush to release their first
album and that they get better on the next one. But for now, I just
don't care. I think their music is some of the most interesting I've
ever heard, and I feel about their music like you do about Trent's
words... it has depth and meaning.
I can't argue with you that NIN has far more meaning. I didn't even
*like* PHM when I first heard it, but I read the lyrics in the liner
notes and was completely blown away... the man had some incredibly
insightful things to say and I'll be forever grateful that he said
them. You score on this point for sure.
>handful of innovators (skinny puppy, early ministry, nine inch nails, and
>download, once people start copying them - heh, if they can) and then the
>rest of the genre becomes composed of people who are just mimicing those
>innovators...
I said it once, I'll say it again. Have you ever heard AL Jourgensen
talk about Nine Inch Nails? From his point of view, NIN is to Ministry
everything you are saying GK is to NIN. So who's right? I think
everybody oughtta just keep their damn mouths shut when it comes to
this kind of stuff (unless we're talking about the Spice Girls, of
course, this much goes without saying). It's too subjective.
>that's why "closer" and "the perfect drug" (and even "head like a hole")
>are *so* much more mainstream popular than "guilty"...*what* ever
"HLAH" was *not* more popular than "Guilty" if you're talking airplay
and sales upon first release. Of course NOWadays it is, but that's
because "Closer" made NIN such an institution and it has become such a
rage. (Face up to that fact - before TDS and "Closer," Nine Inch Nails
was still underground and we were all in a vast minority)
In fact, that's all I can chalk "TPD's" success up to, because I like
every single song on GK's debut more than I like the tepid "TPD."
But I won't sit here and tell you that Trent is ripping off every
euro-disco drum riff made in the past two years. That would be
obnoxious of me.
br
@-}-
Lonely Locke
On Mon, 03 Mar 1997 14:40:38 -0800 Hope Raudive wrote in alt.music.nin :
: ...but, anyway, trent was the first
Huh ? You did mention Depeche Mode yourself. And "Construction Time
Again" was far more industrial than PHM ever could be. Hmm, there's less
"Punk" in the mix, but we could make other examples. I was taking the
most obvious. Anyway, got my point ?
CU,
_ __ ___ _ __ ___ \\|||//
| | / \ / _/| |/ /| _| NP: / @ @ \
| |__| || || |_ | \ | _| Die Toten Hosen (| \ |)
|____|\__/ \__\|_|\_\|___| "Kauf MICH!" \__=__/
| |
R3ds0cks
blac...@iglou.com (blackrose) wrote:
>Hope Raudive <jwm...@psu.edu> wrote:
>
>>> I have always said
>>> that there is no album in the world that sounds like "Pretty Hate Machine"
>
>>what about "some great reward" by depeche mode?!?
>
>And "Twitch" by Ministry! Dear GOD that album has PHM written all OVER
>it!
Yep, sure does. Although when I hear that "Crash and Burn" section, I think
HiS.
Matt
over the shoulder
--
r3ds0cks
Nike-wearing rootbeer-drinking Lawn Guyland 31337ist
matt...@li.net http://www.li.net/~matthewb/
"I'm not responsible for the dipshits of the world" - Blackrose
Hope Raudive
blackrose wrote:
>
> Hope Raudive <jwm...@psu.edu> wrote:
>
> >unfortunately, bands like Stabbing Westward and Chemlab did it 3-4 years
> >before gravity kills, and both bands actually had ideas at one time
> >(imagine that) which separated them from the run-of-the-mill nin copycats
> >(like gk)
>
> I've heard both Chemlab and SW, and I like neither of them enough to
> have bought any of their material. I love GK. So who are you (or
> anyone) to tell me that they are "run of the mill copycats" compared
> to these bands? Please don't spout a personal opinion as if it were
> fact. Music is all about personal taste!
can't disagree here...it seems like you prefer music based on it's
aesthetic appeal, and i'm a dicks, er, concept guy...i didn't want my
last post to seem like a personal attack on gk fans...hell, i hate the
grateful dead for similar reasons but i'm not telling jo-jo to stop
listening to them :)
> I'm an artist. I'm a musician. I'm a damn good musician.
true...your sound clips are excellent, btw...i normally don't like that
style of music too much, but you pull it off *really* well :)
> I consider
> myself an excellent artist, and I invite you to read the lyrics to my
> songs, because I think I have something to say. I think a lot of
> people I know here would back me up on that, too... even stark, who I
> know stalwartly disagrees with me about GK. And I resent the
> implication that if I like GK, I must be a musical retard.
i dunno if i said anything about gk fans being retards, i guess it's
possible...hell, if listening to crappy music made you a musical retard,
i'd have to give up making music just because i like a few bands purely
because of aesthetics - this mortal coil for example...sure, i appreciate
a few of the experimental aspects, but for the most part it was all done
before...but the beauty of the music holds a great appeal to me
> And I also
> resent the implication that writing catchy music makes you a
> non-artistic, no-count bass-ackward nobody. In fact, it's my assertion
> that in a sea of shitty and discordant "industrial" music, the only
> way to be truly original is to write catchy songs. Nobody else is
> doing it!
i didn't mean to say that a musician was any worse for writing "catchy"
songs...but, IMHO, someone who writes "catchy" songs with no
musical/lyrical content isn't worth respecting...you may differ on that,
as well as anyone else, and it doesn't make you a worse music
fan/musician...i just don't find music that's catchy with nothing else
there all that interesting...
from my own musical experience, i've found that it isn't too hard to
write catchy melodies, and it isn't too difficult to write music with
deep meaning...fusing the two, however, is next to fucking impossible
without sacrificing the quality of one or the other...
> I will give you ONE THING about GK. Their lyrics are just plain flat
> out STUPID. (Almost as stupid as "TPD") I hope against hope that the
> reason is because they were in such a rush to release their first
> album and that they get better on the next one.
from what i've read, they recorded "guilty" in like a day or something
because they needed a single...dunno if it's true, but i hope so - the
lyrics to that track fucking suck :) 1..2..3...
> But for now, I just
> don't care. I think their music is some of the most interesting I've
> ever heard, and I feel about their music like you do about Trent's
> words... it has depth and meaning.
well, i don't really like their music, aesthetically or otherwise, but i
will give props to the guy who hacks samples...the samples are pretty
much the only thing that saves that album in my eyes...whoever the guy is
who did them deserves a hell of a lot of credit
> >handful of innovators (skinny puppy, early ministry, nine inch nails, and
> >download, once people start copying them - heh, if they can) and then the
> >rest of the genre becomes composed of people who are just mimicing those
> >innovators...
> I said it once, I'll say it again. Have you ever heard AL Jourgensen
> talk about Nine Inch Nails? From his point of view, NIN is to Ministry
> everything you are saying GK is to NIN. So who's right?
i am...heh :) all i have to say on the FLA/NIN and Ministry/NIN wars is
that there's a difference between repetitive, monotonous, conceptually
bare music and experimental song structure, lyrics with multiple
meanings, etc...just MHO of course
> I think
> everybody oughtta just keep their damn mouths shut when it comes to
> this kind of stuff (unless we're talking about the Spice Girls, of
> course, this much goes without saying). It's too subjective.
yeah, but c'mon - they're fucking hot!!! hell, i'm gay <g> and i'd fuck
'em...
> >that's why "closer" and "the perfect drug" (and even "head like a hole")
> >are *so* much more mainstream popular than "guilty"...*what* ever
>
> "HLAH" was *not* more popular than "Guilty" if you're talking airplay
> and sales upon first release. Of course NOWadays it is, but that's
> because "Closer" made NIN such an institution and it has become such a
> rage. (Face up to that fact - before TDS and "Closer," Nine Inch Nails
> was still underground and we were all in a vast minority)
well, i was just basing it on my exposure...when HLAH first came out, I
saw it on mtv a hell of a lot during primetime...i heard it in clubs,
etc...guilty, on the other hand - i haven't seen that video once, even
though i was watching mtv more than ever around the time it was released,
and no club dj's have played it on nights that i was
there...strange...not saying i'm right, but strange
> In fact, that's all I can chalk "TPD's" success up to, because I like
> every single song on GK's debut more than I like the tepid "TPD."
>
> But I won't sit here and tell you that Trent is ripping off every
> euro-disco drum riff made in the past two years. That would be
> obnoxious of me.
oh, yeah, there's no doubt that he's being influenced by the drum n bass
scene, as is bowie...but both of them took it to new heights conceptually
and musically that few other artists have, save aphex twin...although i
like tdp, though, it could be a lot better...but the drum programming
blows away stuff like wagon christ (who i actually like a lot)...he
basically fused styles, something bowie's been called an innovator for
years for doing...
anyway, a big part of the problem i still have with gk is the guitar riff
to guilty...i think they owe Machines of Loving Grace some royalties for
that :)
love,
hope (btw - i'll check out that soundclip one of these days - my .ra
player is working like shit right now)
zomb
Hope Raudive wrote:
> this fits in with almost anything artistic, unfortunately...you'll always
> have the 99% idiot fanbase into Clockwork Orange, William Burroughs,
> Bladerunner, Taxi Driver, Van Gogh, Duchamp, Genesis P Orridge, NIN,
> etc....it doesn't take away from the art though, especially for the 1%
> who at least partially "get it"
The problem is that no one really knows if they "get it". Someone might
write off the rest of the world as the drooling idiot masses (hell, I do
it all the time), but that doesn't mean you're one of them. For all we
know, Reznor goes home at night and thinks to himself "Man..I can't
believe these dumbass kids listen to this crap. I cranked that out when
the QuakeServer went down."
> shop acting blatantly ignorant (i'm not prejudice against fratboys, mind
> you - just the stupid ones) and i noticed he was wearing a manson
Whoa. And I was thinking that it's really cool to automatically write
off every fratboy as a rich, white-boy, date-raping, alcoholic
drunkfuck. =]
> of "heh heh...like, lets go beat the shit outta some fags...lord manson
> told me too in that 1996 song...heh...he's alternative or some shit"...lo
> and behold, said fratboy heard me and walked over and said "what did you
> say faggot?!?"
Bwhahahaha. That's cool. I had a similar encounter when a bunch of high
school kids were jamming their cool gangsta rap really loud. My friend
and I decided to try to bust a few moves to their tunes. Then one of the
meatheads was like:
"You makin' fun of my friend's music?"
Me: "Yes we are."
Him: "Uh....Shut the fuck up then!"
Me: "We haven't said anything yet."
Him: "Uhh...Oh..Sorry."<walks away>
-stark- [*WHAT* ever]
hey look! st...@fucker.com (Lily J Rabbit) wrote:
>jst...@micro-net.com (-stark-[*WHAT* ever]) wrote:
>~* 99% of the people listening to MM don't get it. .5% get half of it, and .5%
>~* understand.
>
>The trouble is with Manson is that there's 99% of the people
>listening to him say things like "fucking 8 year olds is fun"
>and thinking that's cool.
>
>Say all you want about how he's so smart & philisophical
>and theres all this deep meaning & crap in his work...
>the fact remains that he's out there telling a lot of
>young people who don't read Nietzche that things like
>murder & child molestation are what cool guys like him do.
>
>I think that is utterly & completely reprehensible.
>And I seem to be the only one.
the truth is, he was abused. the truth is, he shows us, through blunt force
trauma, and not sweeet little words, exactly what a repressed doctrine force fed
to us generation after generation has produced. i don't mean christian/catholic
persay, although he does. my statements lie more in a hypocritical
puritannical/sociopolitical vein. (although you know i am no fan of organized
religion, but that is just a personal choice & whatnot). the truth is, this
country is so fucking desensitized we need to be punched in the face just get
our attention.
he's a punch in the face.
the truth is, he is challenging the young idiots to fucking LEARN something. to
think for themselves. if they choose a path that doesn't agree with his, FINE.
at least they had a though of their own. they are failing to answer that
challenge, because this is a stupid, lazy complacent country that would rather
have it handed to them than work for it. on the whole, we are a land of tree
sloths. anyone who challenges our sloth-like ways is to be hated, feared,
despised, or even followed.
and just a few people actually drop down off the fucking branch and do a little
work. that is the entire point in a nutshell.
that having been said. many times in the past, people have levied harsh chrges
and attributed harsh statements to trent, among other rock stars. they were
always asked to back them up. now, i ask you the same. no flames, just tell me
where exactly you see his advocating murder, NOT as a character in a song, as 4
billion artists before him, including i'm sure some in your own cd collection
have, and the molestation of an 8 year old boy. because if it's the concert
patter from 94-95...it's a script, and that's a character...and it was a 14 year
old boy he talked about, every time, and it was into 'cake & sodomy', a song
that discusses how a typical american family is usually rife with horrible
problems, and yet smiles as if they haven't a care in the world...nothing is
wrong...time for cake, dear...bend over...smile when i touch you, baby...here,
have a *cookie*.
it's amazing i like cookies.
if you hate him, hate him for the right reasons. it's OK to hate him. i know he
wants to bring an end to your beliefs regarding god. that's a *good enough
reason to hate him*. you have plenty of good solid reason to dislike this guy
and his art. and that's totally cool. i'm positive i absolutely hate diamanda
galas. so what? did i even get her name right? feh. anyway...as you know, i
have as good a reason not to like those molestation comments as you do. and i
hated his ass at first too. but then i took it upon myself to actually read and
listen and *understand* what the fuck was being said, who was really saying
it...and *why*. anyone who hasn't should either do so, or ignore the band.
again...this is not a flame, or an attack. this is a call to either discuss
this and maybe we can learn from each other, or just killfile the word "manson".
that's all. i actually don't care who likes him in the end. i know that i have
learned something valuable here, and am continuing to do so.
hmm. i am really tired.
--
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sheep are only good for three things.
1-buying records
2-winter clothing
3-getting cornholed by the shepherd
-jen, jen & veronika (told to me by one of the jens)
Andrew Harrison
: I think that is utterly & completely reprehensible.
: And I seem to be the only one.
: gothbunny
Nah, I just didn't wanna get involved. I agree though. He may be drawing
a lot from a lot of sources, but so did the real Manson, and a lot of
other really disturbed people. I don't think that simply because his
"philosophy" derives from someone as great as Neitzsche, that he should
automatically be exonerated for coming on stage and telling people to fuck
children.
Now, at the same time, it's his total right to do so, and I think that
it's ultimately under the control of the parents of these young people as
to what they do and don't listen to. When I was a boy, and when all my
friends were boys (male friends that is, female friends woulda been
girls), our parents payed attention to what we were doing and what we were
watching/listening to.
I don't think that laying the blame on a man who's just making his living
by expressing his opinion (as skewed as some people may think it is) is
the right thing to do. If a 12 year old gets a hold of a manson album and
his parents are too uninterested in his life to realize it, or too stupid
to realize it's pretty objectionable (especially to younger people who are
still developing rational thought processes), then these "parents" need to
be held accountable, not the man himself.
I guess what I'm trying to say is, if you pull a lot of deep seated
meaning out of Manson's work, cool for you, but lets all (well, those of
you who have children/younger siblings to watch over) let the young ones
develop the ability to take these things out of their context and look at
them objectionably, and not taking them as full truth first.
Thanks for listening.
Andrew
--
meatpie
no more | no less
DaNSe MaCAbrE
On Tue, 04 Mar 1997 20:18:17 -0800, st...@fucker.com (Lily J Rabbit)
wrote:
-=[The trouble is with Manson is that there's 99% of the people
-=[listening to him say things like "fucking 8 year olds is fun"
-=[and thinking that's cool.
-=[
-=[Say all you want about how he's so smart & philisophical
-=[and theres all this deep meaning & crap in his work...
-=[the fact remains that he's out there telling a lot of
-=[young people who don't read Nietzche that things like
-=[murder & child molestation are what cool guys like him do.
-=[
-=[I think that is utterly & completely reprehensible.
-=[And I seem to be the only one.
I know understand why you hate/dislike/whatever them so much. It all
has to do with child molestation and what not (I put 2 and 2 together
and got something...also read your posts and noticed that whenever you
said the words "Marilyn Manson," "fucking 8 year olds" would appear
somewhere or other on the post).
I dont care of you like them or not, all that bullshit about finding
out why you hate them SO much was, basically, to ACTUALLY find out why
you do. I'm not gonna try and change your attitude on them, and I'm
not gonna flame you (still havent figured out that "flame" thang yet).
I think it was kinda ironic how you didnt want to start some big war
bout Manson thread, and yet up there you just stated why you loathe
them so. Why didnt you write that in my letter? ...meanie...
This is basically a thank you. Thank you Lily for finally explaining
(probably unintentionally) why you hate them so much. I'm not gonna
get into the jist of why you hate them. I dont care. Again, I just
wanted to know.
I leave you with this: is it ok if I just like the music and nothing
more?
-=[DaNSe MaCAbrE]=-
-=[topd...@mindspring.com]=-
-=[http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/5269]=-
-=[NoTHinG Is ExPLaiNED AnD ThINgs StARt GeTTinG ViOLenT]=-
DaNSe MaCAbrE
On 5 Mar 1997 06:40:55 GMT, Andrew Harrison <mea...@jobu.net> wrote:
-=[Now, at the same time, it's his total right to do so, and I think that
-=[it's ultimately under the control of the parents of these young people as
-=[to what they do and don't listen to. When I was a boy, and when all my
-=[friends were boys (male friends that is, female friends woulda been
-=[girls), our parents payed attention to what we were doing and what we were
-=[watching/listening to.
Mine did too! I think it both better and worsened what I saw
media-wise. I wanted to branch out... to see new and bizarre and
horrible things. I wanted to see what my parents were hiding me from.
If my mom hadnt a kept a close eye on me (punishing me for renting
scary movies) I probably would be taking this "shocking" stuff for
granted.
-=[I don't think that laying the blame on a man who's just making his living
-=[by expressing his opinion (as skewed as some people may think it is) is
-=[the right thing to do. If a 12 year old gets a hold of a manson album and
-=[his parents are too uninterested in his life to realize it, or too stupid
-=[to realize it's pretty objectionable (especially to younger people who are
-=[still developing rational thought processes), then these "parents" need to
-=[be held accountable, not the man himself.
Exactly! That is one of the things I originally (and still do) believe
Marilyn Manson is TRYING to do. He sees all these children who arent
being raised properly, and he basically becomes their "parent"
(twisted, isnt it?). Now this is both good and bad. I think these kids
take for granted all the stuff that he does. I think that these
"spooky" kids are growing up WAY too fast for their own good. Again,
if the parents arent watching these kids, dont blame the band, blame
the other crappy role models they have to look to.
DJ OKFM
In article <331d2818...@news.mindspring.com>, topd...@mindspring.com wrote:
>-=[this and maybe we can learn from each other, or just killfile the word
> "manson".
>-=[that's all. i actually don't care who likes him in the end. i know that i
> have
>-=[learned something valuable here, and am continuing to do so.
>
>How long have you liked Marilyn Manson? For some odd reason it seems
>like just recently youve turned kind of "hard core" on em (not saying
>youre a newbie or anything, a newbie wouldnt know this much bout em).
>I think its cool of course! What brought this "change" on? Hope I dont
>sound too much like an essay ;)
i can remember when jim got pissed off at a certain rock star he hated for
constantly bumping into him... :)
DJ
|Rev. Damin J. Toell |
|djt...@teknowhore.com |
|djt...@worldnet.att.net |
|http://www.teknowhore.com - the official BiLe page|
|"i'm a one-man gang-bang." - J.G Thirlwell |
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S+ NC V+ R+ D+ PB-
_________________________________
blackrose
Hope Raudive <jwm...@psu.edu> wrote:
<snip>
Well, I think enough's been said... I just wanted you to know I
thought your answer was well thought out, etcetc.
We agree, we disagree. No big.
I think I just was in the mood to knock Trent down a peg or two when I
originally started this whole thing. I can't abide by Trent accusing a
group that I LIKE of "ripping" him off when, in my own view, he can be
just as easily accused of the same exact *terrible crime* - it just
didn't sit well with me.
Especially since I've been anxiously awaiting hearing some new work
from said Trent and, while he has been busily playing Doom, a new
group came to my attention in Gravity Kills and actually *helped* me
through this dark NINless period of my life...
And *sniff* - he doesn't *wike dem* - *sniff*
:)
br
@-}-
who is killing himself softly with his song...
DJ OKFM
i'm putting stark's new subject line on this, altho it's a response to lily's
post, to keep it in the same new thread
In article <star-04039...@sea-ts2-p66.wolfenet.com>, st...@fucker.com
(Lily J Rabbit) wrote:
>The trouble is with Manson is that there's 99% of the people
>listening to him say things like "fucking 8 year olds is fun"
>and thinking that's cool.
as long as you're not generalizing. i hardly think i'm part of the other 1%.
>Say all you want about how he's so smart & philisophical
>and theres all this deep meaning & crap in his work...
>the fact remains that he's out there telling a lot of
>young people who don't read Nietzche that things like
>murder & child molestation are what cool guys like him do.
he is? i don't remember him telling me anything is cool. so what do you want
him to do? give a copy of 'thus spoke zarathustra' with every CD? come on.
do you really think that would help, anyway? if they were to understand what
they were reading...which i fear simply from empirical experience (i.e., going
to high school in the past) that many teenagers wouldn't...what would they
think? that they shouldn't follow anyone's thoughts but their own? allow for
free and open thought, introspection, and action? would that make it all ok,
in your eyes? or wouldn't it just compound the problem a million-fold by
having people thinking for themselves instead of having someone or something
else do it for them? instead of one manson with a million followers...a
million mansons with no followers....
back to manson telling young people that certain things are cool...by that
logic, stephen king has told lots of people of all ages to do *all sorts* of
horrible things...
>I think that is utterly & completely reprehensible.
yes, as is the proliferation of sex on the internet. horrible horrible.
talking about penises and other disgusting things. making 99% of the people
who read it have sexual desires. awful.
>And I seem to be the only one.
for all of your supposed open-minded-ness lily, you really disappoint me
somtimes. but you're not supposed to impress me, anyway, so don't worry :)
but if you really think that manson's music is going to cause people to molest
children, then there's bother in arguing with you because you're not in the
same reality as the rest of us.
censorship, repression, hatred and racism come in many forms. but if we all
agree on the common enemy, it's not that bad, right? so what's next? ads for
jobs with the disclaimer: 'manson fans need not apply'?
if you think i'm exaggerating, think again.
-stark- [*WHAT* ever]
hey look! djt...@teknowhore.com (DJ OKFM) wrote:
>In article <331d2818...@news.mindspring.com>, topd...@mindspring.com
> wrote:
>>-=[this and maybe we can learn from each other, or just killfile the word
>> "manson".
>>-=[that's all. i actually don't care who likes him in the end. i know that i
>> have
>>-=[learned something valuable here, and am continuing to do so.
>>
>>How long have you liked Marilyn Manson? For some odd reason it seems
>>like just recently youve turned kind of "hard core" on em (not saying
>>youre a newbie or anything, a newbie wouldnt know this much bout em).
>>I think its cool of course! What brought this "change" on? Hope I dont
>>sound too much like an essay ;)
>
>i can remember when jim got pissed off at a certain rock star he hated for
>constantly bumping into him... :)
and you know what?
that's why i didn't buy the album right away! heh. how stupid is that? well,
that and the fact that i couldn't actually *hear* the band that night, the mix
sounded like *shit*...
to answer danse, though, yes, it has been recently that i turned "hard core"...i
bought the lunchbox single at the tail end of 95...and went right back out for
portrait and slc. and when ACS came out, i bought it right away, but i was
still "i like the music and hate the guy, what a shockrock ripoff asshole...but,
the music is enjoyable to listen to."
then i actually read what i was listening to! i started reading the interviews
that i formerly ignored...and i got to actually meet him and speak to him and
those that work around and with him.
it made a great amount of difference in how i viewed things. sure, he still
tries to be 'spooky' in person sometimes. sure he says things that are designed
to wake you the *fuck* up and react...but, he's got your attention now, doesn't
he? it's the moment after he shocks or disgusts you that he lives for...that
deciding moment where you either listen to what he's trying to tell you, or you
hide you head in the sand...it seems that most people at that moment hide their
heads. they 'turn the trains on to make it go away.'
as for the abuse? he won't talk about it directly., and i honestly think he's
lied about it in public, played it down. i think that one would have to be a
fool to think that granpa stuck to just whacking off. but that's just my
opinion. at the least, his father was a controlling maniac, whom marilyn has
admitted had some stress disorder issues. my bet is, his mom was a pretty mousy
go-along here's-your-drink-honey spineless type of haus frau woman.
i gots theories fo'days. word.
--
-stark- jst...@micro-net.com - star...@nincon.com - www2.miracle.net/~jstark
www.23x.com www.amnin.com - www.nincon.com - ftp.amnin.com - IRC #amnin
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DaNSe MaCAbrE
On Wed, 05 Mar 97 06:18:44 GMT, jst...@micro-net.com (-stark- [*WHAT*
ever]) wrote:
-=[the truth is, he was abused. the truth is, he shows us, through blunt force
-=[trauma, and not sweeet little words, exactly what a repressed doctrine force fed
-=[to us generation after generation has produced. i don't mean christian/catholic
-=[persay, although he does. my statements lie more in a hypocritical
-=[puritannical/sociopolitical vein. (although you know i am no fan of organized
-=[religion, but that is just a personal choice & whatnot). the truth is, this
-=[country is so fucking desensitized we need to be punched in the face just get
-=[our attention.
I dont think he was abused Jim (I think thats your name). His parents
raised him fine, and the only abuse he may have gotten was from
watching his grandfather jack-off regularly in front of him and other
family members (this IS true, mind you). He sees the abuse out there,
and he approaches it. He approaches it by getting in your face. How
did Trent put it? Blunt? "They have no qualms about taking that whole
thing on." I, personally, really dont care. If I wanted to take a
stand by listening to a certain band, it sure as hell wouldnt be any
band NOTHING related. I like the man for his music, and every once and
a while I notice little things about what exactly he is trying to do.
-=[he's a punch in the face.
he's the electric razor...shaving your eyebrows while you sleep.
-=[the truth is, he is challenging the young idiots to fucking LEARN something. to
-=[think for themselves. if they choose a path that doesn't agree with his, FINE.
-=[at least they had a though of their own. they are failing to answer that
-=[challenge, because this is a stupid, lazy complacent country that would rather
-=[have it handed to them than work for it. on the whole, we are a land of tree
-=[sloths. anyone who challenges our sloth-like ways is to be hated, feared,
-=[despised, or even followed.
Exactly! There really ISNT no freedom of religion. You can believe in
your own God, but if that God goes against Christianity, look the FUCK
out!
-=[and just a few people actually drop down off the fucking branch and do a little
-=[work. that is the entire point in a nutshell.
-=[
-=[that having been said. many times in the past, people have levied harsh chrges
-=[and attributed harsh statements to trent, among other rock stars. they were
-=[always asked to back them up. now, i ask you the same. no flames, just tell me
-=[where exactly you see his advocating murder, NOT as a character in a song, as 4
-=[billion artists before him, including i'm sure some in your own cd collection
-=[have, and the molestation of an 8 year old boy. because if it's the concert
-=[patter from 94-95...it's a script, and that's a character...and it was a 14 year
-=[old boy he talked about, every time, and it was into 'cake & sodomy', a song
-=[that discusses how a typical american family is usually rife with horrible
-=[problems, and yet smiles as if they haven't a care in the world...nothing is
-=[wrong...time for cake, dear...bend over...smile when i touch you, baby...here,
-=[have a *cookie*.
-=[
-=[it's amazing i like cookies.
Wow!
-=[if you hate him, hate him for the right reasons. it's OK to hate him. i know he
-=[wants to bring an end to your beliefs regarding god. that's a *good enough
-=[reason to hate him*. you have plenty of good solid reason to dislike this guy
-=[and his art. and that's totally cool. i'm positive i absolutely hate diamanda
-=[galas. so what? did i even get her name right? feh. anyway...as you know, i
-=[have as good a reason not to like those molestation comments as you do. and i
-=[hated his ass at first too. but then i took it upon myself to actually read and
-=[listen and *understand* what the fuck was being said, who was really saying
-=[it...and *why*. anyone who hasn't should either do so, or ignore the band.
Youre babbling Jim =)
-=[again...this is not a flame, or an attack. this is a call to either discuss
-=[this and maybe we can learn from each other, or just killfile the word "manson".
-=[that's all. i actually don't care who likes him in the end. i know that i have
-=[learned something valuable here, and am continuing to do so.
How long have you liked Marilyn Manson? For some odd reason it seems
like just recently youve turned kind of "hard core" on em (not saying
youre a newbie or anything, a newbie wouldnt know this much bout em).
I think its cool of course! What brought this "change" on? Hope I dont
sound too much like an essay ;)
-=[hmm. i am really tired.
Oh really! It doesnt show =þ
jnk...@newstand.syr.edu
DJ OKFM (djt...@teknowhore.com) wrote:
<a response to Lily>
All I have to say is, DJ, you rock my world!!
<hug>
love,
jameka
S.B.
> this fits in with almost anything artistic, unfortunately...you'll always
> have the 99% idiot fanbase into Clockwork Orange, William Burroughs,
> Bladerunner, Taxi Driver, Van Gogh, Duchamp, Genesis P Orridge, NIN,
> etc....it doesn't take away from the art though, especially for the 1%
> who at least partially "get it"
99% might be a little steep for the Burroughs audience. But what makes an
idiot fanbase, anyway? How does one qualify as an idiot fan? Someone who
misinterprets the work, maybe? Someone who, let's say, thinks A Clockwork
Orange is about...I don't know...what would a member of the idiot fanbase
think ACO is about?? Or is it that the fanbase merely does not see past
the surface? That if I raised the issue of the biblical imagery in
Bladerunner, that the idiot fanbase member would be like 'what the fuck'.
In that case, what an idiot!
One thing, though--the head replicant--is he a Jesus figure? Is Tyrell a
God figure? If so, how could you explain the replicant pushing Tyrell's
eyes in and killing him?
DJ OKFM
hey now...she sucks on my nipples *and* i rock her world...
wow :)
love you more jameka :)
Mult Santa
>>>The trouble is with Manson is that there's 99% of the people
listening to him say things like "fucking 8 year olds is fun"
and thinking that's cool.<<<
not that I approve of manson or the things he does its just that I've
never heard him say the phrase "fucking 8 year olds is fun" maybe I'm just
out of the loop, but...
http://members.aol.com/MultSanta
KMFDM, Chainsuck, Aphex Twin, bootlegs, everything else that *is* MultSanta
Hope Raudive
Lily J Rabbit wrote:
> Say all you want about how he's so smart & philisophical
> and theres all this deep meaning & crap in his work...
> the fact remains that he's out there telling a lot of
> young people who don't read Nietzche that things like
> murder & child molestation are what cool guys like him do.
speaking of Nietzche, has anyone else drawn connections between the
Manson fans doing stupid things in his name and the Nazis using
Nietzche's philosophy as justification of their militarism and genocide?
it's funny how easily the stupid believe misinterpretations...although,
admittedly, Nietzche's sister and her husband (can't remember his name -
he was a ranking official in the Nazi party, though) edited his texts for
the sake of making their point more obvious...thank god for the new
re-issues...
-[ stark ]- just underneath the skin
In article <mommagoth-ya024080...@news.iquest.net>,
momm...@usa.net (mommagoth) wrote:
>Don't worry, I'm taking care of things on this homefront. :)
may i interject?
momma, you kick ass. i tend to agree with virtually every word you thusly
spoke on this subject...and it sounds like you have your ducks in a row...and
are keeping your child's ducks close by as well.
kudos.
-[stark]-
--
____________________________________________________________________________
|jst...@micro-net.com - star...@nincon.com - st...@23x.com - ji...@w3tek.com |
|www2.miracle.net/~jstark - www.amnin.com - www.nincon.com - www.w3tek.com |
|____________________________________________________________________________|
|"Everyone should just get over themselves, eat more cherries, fall in love, |
|and shut the fuck up." - dave k. |
|____________________________________________________________________________|
-[ stark ]- just underneath the skin
st...@fucker.com (Lily J Rabbit) wrote:
preface: this post isn't even about lily and her feelings on the matter. i
know they will never change. i also know that it will not affect the way i
feel about lily. she's always going to be my friend, regardless of who
she likes and why.
this is more of a 'present the other side of the coin' post...everyone who is
actually giving an issue some thought should always get to hear more than one
side. so lily, if you have no interest in this, i'd totally understand if you
didn't read another word.
if you do continue, i hope that we can truly discuss this, because in my mind
it's bigger than any shock rock band, no matter how many philosophers he
reads.
post:
>I mean, if someone walked up to you at a bar, grabbed your ass
>& said "lean over little girl so I can stick my dick up your ass"
>would you think a whole lot of them?
if someone started an enema contest with two girls they just poured a quart of
vodka into, and berated them into eating fruit loops out of a bowl on the
floor...
how would you feel about them? and would you be so publically venomous?
>You can like whatever you want. I don't care. All of you are
>welcome to like Manson's lyrics, his music, his commentary
>at shows, his propaganda, his religion, his ass, what ever.
>As much as you can rationalize, which is an *amazing* ammount,
>obviously, you're welcome to love it all...
rationalization is ...and this is terribly important...
a two way street.
using a phrase here and there, even without understanding context or meaning,
to justify such a venomous public display against someone, and by association,
those who LIKE that someone, or believe some, part or all of what they do, is
rationalization in its purest form. no need to think about it. after all,
you hate him. so any good thing he may ever do can be rationalized away
because you *know* that he meant these two or three or ten things the way you
understand them, regardless of context or meaning, or even if they were simply
meant to shock for image's sake...
do you (or anyone who walks on the 'hate manson' side of the street) own the
foetus record with the song about getting the 14 yr old girl pregnant,
throwing her down the stairs to kill the baby, and then drowning her in a
pool?
because if you do, then you completely understand artist as character. so
many artists before, during, and i'm sure after MM will tackle the same
subjects, and no one will raise hell, because they hide it in pretty music, or
pretty words, or just *hide* it in general.
(thanks to dj for clueing me in to that tune)
>I have nothing more to say on the matter. Ever.
>I should have fucking kept my mouth shut in the
>first place. I love how all the people who agree
>with me are e-mailing me cause they're too fucking
>scared to post. I don't blame them. I wish I hadn't.
lily, i love you. you know that. offline, away from all this, as a friend, i
love you. no band will change that. but i gotta say this.
the only people who would start this in public and then hide it in e-mail are
ones who have absolutely no facts or logic to back up the statements they made
in the first place. not to toot my own horn, but you know the one thing i do
best is debate and argue. i *know* the e-mail thing is the oldest ploy going.
a bunch of people who have nothing to say that could sway the discussion get
to feel all goody good that they agree, without having to THINK ABOUT WHY. no
one to challenge you when it's hidden, is there? no one to point out a flaw
in the arguement, or a fault in the reasoning...or an INNACURATE FACT. the
last thing someone in a complacent situation wants to do is be challenged.
complacency causes closed doors. hearing a challenge to your point of view
opens them.
it's my firm belief that an open door is better, unless you are having sex in
your parent's house. then, you should always close the door. ;-)
>Anything with the word manson in it has been killfiled.
well...that saddens me, but it's what i expected.
> The end.
>I'm tired and I'm scared.
you scared yourself. all that was happening here was rational discussion of
an issue. a pretty important, bigger-than-any-band issue, imho.
you have perfectly legitimate reasons to dislike him. the bottom line is, MM
is a threat to your belief system. and that's all the reason you need to
dislike him! and it's understandable, and accurate, and makes sense.
the other side of the coin? you judge him by your morality. he judges you by
his. he threatens you. you are a threat to him as well.
there's *always* another point of view. regardless of your belief system...no
one and nothing can be entirely right all the time. people need to be a FUCK
of a lot more open in the world if we ever plan to solve *anything*.
-[stark]-
--
_____________________________________________________________________________
jst...@micro-net.com - star...@nincon.com - st...@23x.com - ji...@w3tek.com
www2.miracle.net/~jstark - www.amnin.com - www.nincon.com - www.w3tek.com
___________________________AmNinCode v1.0____________________________________
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_____________________________________________________________________________
"Does your internal CD skip?" -Cassie, to M0reta, New Years Day '97
c-ko
In article <5fmje1$5...@brahms.miracle.net>, jst...@micro-net.com (-[ stark
]- just underneath the skin) wrote:
> do you (or anyone who walks on the 'hate manson' side of the street) own the
> foetus record with the song about getting the 14 yr old girl pregnant,
> throwing her down the stairs to kill the baby, and then drowning her in a
> pool?
Me, yes. Yeah, the song was shocking, etc, but I liked the music that went
along with it. In general, I like Foetus' music, so anything he sings along
with I'm more apt to listen to because of the music accompanying it.
Which leads to Why I Don't Care For Manson. (I'm not gonna say 'hate' here,
because I don't hate them. I just don't like them. Kapeesh?)
I don't like the music, plain and simple. IMHO it's trite, uninspired, and
has been done before, much better, by a host of other bands. (Name some!
someone cries. OK: NIN, skinny puppy, fromt line assembly, hate dept., 16
volt, etc.)
If the music isn't interesting and dosen't grab me, I'm much less inclined
to listen to the lyrics/philosophy/demon rantings behind it. I listen to
plenty of bands whose lyrics I don't agree with, and I'm totally OK with it
(like most Gabber, where the usual lyrical output seems to be 'rape your
sister cocksucker shock gore blood etc.' Same with jars Of Clay, Christian
band. I'm not Christian, but I like them too.) Yes, it's 'respecting the
artist's vision' on one hand, but on the other, lyrics just don't really
grab me the way they do other people.
There's also other artists that I respect the lyrical output of, like Billy
Bragg and Rage Against The Machine, that I just don't listen to because I
don't like the tunes they put out.
I hope people can see where I'm comong from here, and that it's a lot
different than Lily's side of things. I have no problem with people singing
about devil worship, shocking things, blood and gore, mutilation, and the
like, but if the tune ain't making my head bob, I'm not listening to it. I
don't listen to death metal for that same reason, even the lyrical subject
matter is almost identical to extreme hardcore techno, which I adore and
can't get enough of lately.
Just my thoughts on it - flame at will, spookyones,
C-ko
DJ OKFM
In article <see-ya023180000...@news.doit.wisc.edu>, s...@organization.line (c-ko) wrote:
>Which leads to Why I Don't Care For Manson. (I'm not gonna say 'hate' here,
>because I don't hate them. I just don't like them. Kapeesh?)
>
>I don't like the music, plain and simple. IMHO it's trite, uninspired, and
>has been done before, much better, by a host of other bands. (Name some!
>someone cries. OK: NIN, skinny puppy, fromt line assembly, hate dept., 16
>volt, etc.)
>If the music isn't interesting and dosen't grab me, I'm much less inclined
>to listen to the lyrics/philosophy/demon rantings behind it. I listen to
>plenty of bands whose lyrics I don't agree with, and I'm totally OK with it
>(like most Gabber, where the usual lyrical output seems to be 'rape your
>sister cocksucker shock gore blood etc.' Same with jars Of Clay, Christian
>band. I'm not Christian, but I like them too.) Yes, it's 'respecting the
>artist's vision' on one hand, but on the other, lyrics just don't really
>grab me the way they do other people.
that's an entirely valid point, and i think it illustrate my view of music
also: if i like it, i like it...if i don't, then 'oh well, i hope whoever does
like it enjoys the fuck out of it'
i remember before nyQon, i was in HMV Records in Manhatthan with whacko of irc
fame, and we saw this really cool looking pacakge for some limited edition CD
thing with lots of special little things in the box...but we had never heard
of the band before. and i said, 'man, if i liked them, i'd be really fucking
excited right now'
i think that says it all...
listen to what you like, and give everyone else the same freedom
DJ OKFM
In article <5fmje1$5...@brahms.miracle.net>, jst...@micro-net.com (-[ stark ]- just underneath the skin) wrote:
>foetus record with the song about getting the 14 yr old girl pregnant,
>throwing her down the stairs to kill the baby, and then drowning her in a
>pool?
>
>because if you do, then you completely understand artist as character. so
>many artists before, during, and i'm sure after MM will tackle the same
>subjects, and no one will raise hell, because they hide it in pretty music, or
>pretty words, or just *hide* it in general.
>
>(thanks to dj for clueing me in to that tune)
hey no prob. just to clarify for anyone who's curious, the song is 'Someone
Drowned in my Pool,' and although it appears on the Foetus sideproject called
Wiseblood (on the album entitled 'Dirthdish,' and the 12" of 'Stumbo/Someone
Drowned in my Pool'), Thirlwell wrote both the lyrics and music. to
illustrate the point jim is making, here are the lyrics:
She told me she was breeding
Then slipped backwards downstairs
Someone died in that womb
I turned round to find
That miscarriage of justice
Someone drowned in my pool
I put my hands on the television screen
And prayed for salvation
Lubricated, lubricated my mind
Then waited for damnation
When the army of the Lord's at war
FOETUS always calls the shots
Well, I got drunk on WET CEMENT
Then waited for the HARD WORD
And a full wood on the tubesnake
Grab a taxi... this one's over
Forgot it til that tragic night
The 28th of October...
If you can't stand posts
You better not dig them holes
Someone died in my room
She started to breed
So I had to get rid of her
Someone drowned in my pool
She told me she was fourteen
She fell backwards downstairs
Someone died in my room
She started to scream
So I had to get rid of her
Someone drowned in my pool
Someone drowned in my pool... in my pool
SOMEONE DROWNED IN MY POOL
SOMEONE DROWNED IN MY POOL
that's the song...wonderful sounding, offensive as all get out, and a prime
example of musician as character
DJ, who highly recommends 'Dirtdish'
-stark- [*WHAT* ever]
hey look! ali...@jps.net wrote:
>On 6 Mar 1997 14:13:21 GMT, jst...@micro-net.com (-[ stark ]-wrote:
>>there's *always* another point of view. regardless of your belief system...no
>
>>one and nothing can be entirely right all the time. people need to be a FUCK
>>of a lot more open in the world if we ever plan to solve *anything*.
>>
>>
>yes, there is always another point of view but it isn't necessarily
>the right one - how can you ever argue on behalf of any view point if
>you always think you might not be right. With all respect, I bet you
>don't really believe this ultimately either. Being "open" is NOT the
>same thing as thinking there isn't something/someone who is actually
>right/correct. thank you for listening.
well...in a different conversation, you have a point.
but...
my position is, the stance of hating marilyn for a reference to pedophelia,
while in character, intro-ing a song about, among other things, pedophelia in
american families, is a misinterpretation at best, since the same sort of stand
is not taken against other artists who sing about things equally or more
offensive.
it's one thing to hate a guy because he tells you that you personally suck.
it's quite another to misinterpret the show, and then tell everyone the
misinterpretation as absolute fact.
and more so than anything, i wish people could be open to FIND OUT WHAT IT IS
THEY ARE TALKING ABOUT before they start talking about it. that's is *THE* most
important part of this debate. people dismiss before they investigate. mull it
over. talk to someone who has a different point of view. but to be so
knee-jerk reactionary and dismiss everything someone does, and indirectly, and
sometimes directly insult those that *do* take the time to investigate, and
therefore *like* that someone...
i can't go for that. i just can't. sorry. i don't sit here and constantly
bash christians and christianity, although i have every reason to, and my belief
system allows me to. i don't sit and insult people who like E.N., who i just
can't listen to no matter how many times i try...or even, my former example,
diamanda galas. there's a sacriligious wench for ya. condemns religion for
its persecution of aids victims and homosexuals. posed naked on a crucifix in
front of a raging bonfire.
where's the outrage? nowhere. personally i think her music is akin to stabbing
a cat with a hot penknife, recording it, and laying it over bad tori amos music.
thing is, i spent an entire day reading about her, listening to the music,
trying to find what it was that dsome of my friends saw in her.
i investigated it for myself. and that's all i ask, is that people investigate
a little before making statements and judgements that aren't even true or are
based on false information.
i simply ask what marilyn asks. think for your self. don't let religion,
friends, the government, a band or your parents do your thinking for you.
--
-stark- jst...@micro-net.com - star...@nincon.com - www2.miracle.net/~jstark
www.23x.com www.amnin.com - www.nincon.com - ftp.amnin.com - IRC #amnin
___________________________AmNinCode v1.0______________________________________
N++ L+ H++ B+ M+ T+ U++ I++ P+ F+++* S+++* NC++* V++~ R+ * D~ PB+ 1337
-stark- [*WHAT* ever]
hey look! gree...@sable.ox.ac.uk (Mark Bartlam) wrote:
>I know you
>said what you felt you had to, and in the most part I agree with a lot of
>your sentiments, but I just think perhaps you could have been a bit more
>*sensitive* about it.
maybe my sensitivity has been in play for awhile now...and is wo' out.
could be. it's just a thought. another thought is, can't make harsh statements
against someone or something people like, and then expect them to keep quiet and
smiley about it. no sensitivity breeds insensitivity. or some such starkly
drivel.
<pulp fiction> and still another way to put it is...</pf>
on a lighter note:
>Damn, you should get in touch with your feminine
>side a bit more often. Sorry, but that's what I feel...
i touch my feminine side all the time!!! god, i touch it so much i think i'm
going blind, AND growing breasts.
oh wait. those are from the pizza. nevermind.
carry on.
-[stark]-
--
supe...@marilyn-manson.com meta...@nicole-blackman.com st...@23x.com
jst...@micro-net.com star...@nincon.com ji...@w3tek.com - take your pick
www2.miracle.net/~jstark www.amnin.com www.nincon.com www.w3tek.com
www.nicole-blackman.com www.marilyn-manson.com www.23x.com
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
"You have something to learn from everyone. It's not to say that you
have to like what those people have done, but at least respect them in a
strange way because they had the motivation and power to attempt the things
they did." - Marilyn Manson
R3ds0cks
st...@fucker.com (Lily J Rabbit) wrote:
[snip]
>I love how all the people who agree
>with me are e-mailing me cause they're too fucking
>scared to post. I don't blame them.
I think it's sad that, unlike Lily, some people lack the courage of their
convictions.
--
r3ds0cks
Nike-wearing rootbeer-drinking Lawn Guyland 31337ist
matt...@li.net http://www.li.net/~matthewb/
"If I want to put my boot on someone's neck, I have a perfectly good sub
for that." - Melissa
Christopher Sobczak
DaNSe MaCAbrE (topd...@mindspring.com) wrote:
: I leave you with this: is it ok if I just like the music and nothing
: more?
No, thats a cop out answer. Becaus there are kids out there who worship
these losers, and when they say go out and fuck your kid sister, the
13 year old boy who loves the 'Reverned Manson' is gonna consider it.
Jesus, whats wrong with this world when it gets to the point that a band
who's primary audence is the 13-17 crowd is telling them to rape 8 year
olds.. and the people who should know better, are to stupid to see the
implications of such a thing.
Jesus, I would sit here and rant, but its pointless..
--
"We won't sell to a major for a couple of bux" - KMFDM, STILL on WaxTrax!
Christopher Sobczak
WaxTrax! Records: Saving america's youth since 1980
Starkypoo
chris wrote:
>>Jesus, whats wrong with this world when it gets to the point that a band
who's primary audence is the 13-17 crowd is telling them to rape 8 year
olds.. and the people who should know better, are to stupid to see the
implications of such a thing.<<
#1. you are calling ME stupid with this statement. don't insult me
again, chris.
-stark-
--
jst...@micro-net.com (slow...slow...quick quick slow....ride)
wondering what the he|| (<---aol censors!) i'm doing posting from here.
/me wanders back to the golden palominos folder...
Jen Van Dijk
DaNSe MaCAbrE wrote:
>
> On Sun, 09 Mar 97 03:50:49 GMT, jst...@micro-net.com (-stark- [*WHAT*
> ever]) wrote:
>
> -=[ hey look! fut...@ais.net (Christopher Sobczak) wrote:
> -=[>Starkypoo (star...@aol.com) wrote:
> -=[>
> -=[>: >>Jesus, whats wrong with this world when it gets to the point that a band
> -=[>: who's primary audence is the 13-17 crowd is telling them to rape 8 year
> -=[>: olds.. and the people who should know better, are to stupid to see the
> -=[>: implications of such a thing.<<
> -=[>
> -=[>: #1. you are calling ME stupid with this statement. don't insult me
> -=[>: again, chris.
> -=[>
> -=[>What?
> -=[>
> -=[>I am calling you stupid? How so?
> -=[>
> -=[
> -=[
> -=[" and the people who should know better, are to stupid to see the
> -=[implications of such a thing."
> -=[
> -=[i know the implications, i know what he actually says. i don't buy the hype, i
> -=[don't listen to the media, or the rumors, or bullshit. i think for myself and
> -=[investigate it on my own.
> -=[
> -=[i am far from stupid, and i have spent far more time on this than you have. it
> -=[would do you well to not through statements like this out when you don't have a
> -=[fucking clue. if you want to continue this, i suggest we do it in e-mail. this
> -=[is my last post on this part of the discussion. i don't want to waste my time
> -=[anymore, and i'm sick of being insulted by my "friends".
>
> Hey! Hey! Take it easy there big guy! I think we need a little "time
> out." And since "I" was brought up so much in this post, I think I'll
> calm Jim here down with a little song:
>
> I am he as you are he as you are me
> and we are all together
> See how they run like pigs from a gun
> see how they fly
> I'm crying
> Sitting on a cornflake
> Waiting for the van to come
> Corporation T-shirt, stupid bloody Tuesday
> Man you've been a naughty boy
> you let your face grow long
>
> I am the eggman
> they are the eggmen
> I am the walrus
> Goo goo g' joob
>
> Mr. city policeman sitting
> pretty little policemen in a row
> See how they fly like Lucy in the sky
> See how they run
> I'm crying
> I'm crying, I'm crying
> Yellow matter custard
> Dripping from a dead dog's eye
> Crabalocker fishwife
> Pornographic priestess
> Boy, you've been a naughty girl
> you let your knickers down
>
> I am the eggman
> They are the eggmen
> I am the walrus
> Goo goo g' joob
>
> Sitting in an English garden
> waiting for the sun
> If the sun don't come you get a tan
> from standing in the English rain
>
> I am the eggman
> They are the eggmen
> I am the walrus
> Goo goo g' joob
>
> Expert, texpert choking smokers
> don't you think the joker laughs at you
> See how they smile like pigs in a sty
> See how they snide
> I'm crying
> Semolina pilchard
> climbing up the Eiffel tower
> Elementary penguin singing Hare Krishna
> Man, you should have seen them kicking
> Edgar Allan Poe
>
> I am the eggman
> They are the eggmen
> I am the walrus
> Goo goo g' joob
> Goo goo g' joob
> Goo goo g' goo
> goo goo g' joob goo
> juba juba juba
> juba juba juba
> juba juba juba juba
> juba juba
>
> --
>
> (now doesnt it make you feel better, stark?)
>
"The pigs have won tonight..." I'm sorry, I couldn't help myself.
It's beyond my control.
Jen
Christopher Sobczak
Starkypoo (star...@aol.com) wrote:
: >>Jesus, whats wrong with this world when it gets to the point that a band
: who's primary audence is the 13-17 crowd is telling them to rape 8 year
: olds.. and the people who should know better, are to stupid to see the
: implications of such a thing.<<
: #1. you are calling ME stupid with this statement. don't insult me
: again, chris.
What?
I am calling you stupid? How so?
--
"We won't sell to a major for a couple of bux" - KMFDM, STILL on WaxTrax!
Christopher Sobczak
WaxTrax! Records: Saving america's youth since 1980
In order to be happy, you have to pretend things like that don't bother you.
-stark- [*WHAT* ever]
>
>: >>Jesus, whats wrong with this world when it gets to the point that a band
>: who's primary audence is the 13-17 crowd is telling them to rape 8 year
>: olds.. and the people who should know better, are to stupid to see the
>: implications of such a thing.<<
>
>: #1. you are calling ME stupid with this statement. don't insult me
>: again, chris.
>
>What?
>
>I am calling you stupid? How so?
>
" and the people who should know better, are to stupid to see the
implications of such a thing."
i know the implications, i know what he actually says. i don't buy the hype, i
don't listen to the media, or the rumors, or bullshit. i think for myself and
investigate it on my own.
i am far from stupid, and i have spent far more time on this than you have. it
would do you well to not through statements like this out when you don't have a
fucking clue. if you want to continue this, i suggest we do it in e-mail. this
is my last post on this part of the discussion. i don't want to waste my time
anymore, and i'm sick of being insulted by my "friends".
DaNSe MaCAbrE
-=[ hey look! fut...@ais.net (Christopher Sobczak) wrote:
-=[>Starkypoo (star...@aol.com) wrote:
-=[>
-=[>: >>Jesus, whats wrong with this world when it gets to the point that a band
-=[>: who's primary audence is the 13-17 crowd is telling them to rape 8 year
-=[>: olds.. and the people who should know better, are to stupid to see the
-=[>: implications of such a thing.<<
-=[>
-=[>: #1. you are calling ME stupid with this statement. don't insult me
-=[>: again, chris.
-=[>
-=[>What?
-=[>
-=[>I am calling you stupid? How so?
-=[>
-=[
-=[
-=[" and the people who should know better, are to stupid to see the
-=[implications of such a thing."
-=[
-=[i know the implications, i know what he actually says. i don't buy the hype, i
-=[don't listen to the media, or the rumors, or bullshit. i think for myself and
-=[investigate it on my own.
-=[
-=[i am far from stupid, and i have spent far more time on this than you have. it
-=[would do you well to not through statements like this out when you don't have a
-=[fucking clue. if you want to continue this, i suggest we do it in e-mail. this
-=[is my last post on this part of the discussion. i don't want to waste my time
--
-=[DaNSe MaCAbrE]=-
ha...@thepentagon.com
fans fucking babies
DaNSe MaCAbrE
On Sun, 09 Mar 1997 00:26:17 -0500, ha...@thepentagon.com wrote:
-=[ What does trent getting ripped off by the media have to do with manson
-=[fans fucking babies
Um, ya got me...threads mature...get real! The best example of this
would be the thread about "Here's something to discuss...why NIN is SO
good" turning in to the "stupid os war" thread. Again, dont let the
topic mislead you (it might not be necessarily what is discussed
inside).
}!{
In <5fr4t5$o...@news2.ais.net> fut...@ais.net (Christopher Sobczak) writes:
>DaNSe MaCAbrE (topd...@mindspring.com) wrote:
>: I leave you with this: is it ok if I just like the music and nothing
>: more?
>No, thats a cop out answer. Becaus there are kids out there who worship
>these losers, and when they say go out and fuck your kid sister, the
>13 year old boy who loves the 'Reverned Manson' is gonna consider it.
1) So many things in our society already tell males to consider rape as an
alternative to humanist behavior. I think it's clear that Manson is
against that...some others don't agree with me. In either case, I agree
with mommagoth, that it is the responsibility of parents to be looking
after what their kids listen to. If the parents are jerks, then the
kids will probably "get" Manson's point all too well with no help.
2) If his sister listens to Manson, she'd probably kick his ass first.
>Jesus, whats wrong with this world when it gets to the point that a band
>who's primary audence is the 13-17 crowd is telling them to rape 8 year
>olds.. and the people who should know better, are to stupid to see the
>implications of such a thing.
If you saw the way the 700 Club interprets the song lyrics, you'd know
why. First of all, I resent being considered stupid because I have a
different opinion about an artist (and I suspect that's why Stark's post
was worded strongly...). Second, I have never heard Manson say
that, in a recorded or live medium, and I know how easily things can be
taken out of context. Third, I feel about Manson the way I feel about
violence in film/television...a person is not going to do something solely
because they see it in media. I believe the
violence/hatred/sociopathology is already inside them, and *something*
with bring it out no matter what. It could be a bad day at football
practice, it could be spilled grape juice, it could be Manson or the
Beatles or Selena. What I like about Manson is that he drags all that
ugly shit out of the closet and into the open air where it belongs. What
happens to it in the open air is our collective responsibility. I would
be willing to bet money that the people who listen to Manson are far more
likely to have suffered sexual abuse than to inflict it. I know that's
true for NIN fans, no matter WHAT they say about Big Man with a Gun.
>Jesus, I would sit here and rant, but its pointless..
Well, don't waste your time ranting about me. I'm not stupid and neither
are you and we don't agree. It's that simple.
love,
melissa,
not afraid of words, afraid of silence...
--
}!{ }!{ hone...@panix.com }!{ http://www.iag.net/~moreta/honeybee.htm }!{ }!{
8_>-<_>-<_>-<_>8 d^~^~^b "The twisted pleasure we get when we slap your face is
8_>Melissa>Ray>8H R I P H better than a drug." - Hate Dept "You're guiltier
8_>-<_>-<_>-<_>8H GOTTA H than most other people I've ever known."-Adam re: me
}!{
>i know the implications, i know what he actually says. i don't buy the hype, i
>don't listen to the media, or the rumors, or bullshit. i think for myself and
>investigate it on my own.
Well put, Jim.
I didn't come to the decision to like Marilyn Manson quickly, and I
continue to think about it. What bothers me about the people who are
critical, not just of Marilyn Manson, but of the people who like them, is
that they seem to expect a reactionary response to their "accusations." I
am not going to drop everything and say "Oh, he told people to rape
children, so I'm going to burn all his cds now."...and that doesn't make
me stupid or irresponsible.
>"You have something to learn from everyone. It's not to say that you
>have to like what those people have done, but at least respect them in a
>strange way because they had the motivation and power to attempt the things
>they did." - Marilyn Manson
*5*
love,
melissa,
not making snap judgements at face value...
}!{
>On Wed, 05 Mar 97 06:18:44 GMT, jst...@micro-net.com (-stark- [*WHAT*
>ever]) wrote:
>-=[the truth is, he was abused. <snip>
>I dont think he was abused Jim (I think thats your name). His parents
>raised him fine, and the only abuse he may have gotten was from
>watching his grandfather jack-off regularly in front of him and other
>family members (this IS true, mind you).
IMHO, I would classify exposing oneself or masturbating in front of
children deliberately as abusive. Yes, everything is relative and there
are "worse" things you could do, but that's not exactly a great thing to
grow up with. Obviously it made a big impression on Manson...
>-=[he's a punch in the face.
>he's the electric razor...shaving your eyebrows while you sleep.
I never had any eyebrows to begin with. ;P
>-=[the truth is, he is challenging the young idiots to fucking LEARN something. to
>-=[think for themselves. if they choose a path that doesn't agree with his, FINE.
>-=[at least they had a though of their own. they are failing to answer that
>-=[challenge, because this is a stupid, lazy complacent country that would rather
>-=[have it handed to them than work for it. on the whole, we are a land of tree
>-=[sloths. anyone who challenges our sloth-like ways is to be hated, feared,
>-=[despised, or even followed.
>Exactly! There really ISNT no freedom of religion. You can believe in
>your own God, but if that God goes against Christianity, look the FUCK
>out!
...or even if it co-exists with Christianity, they're threatened. Manson
has said several times (can't remember exact quotes) that he has some
Christian-based values...it's the hypocracy of the organized religion that
he has a problem with, IMHO.
My question is: isn't an organized religion which covers up child-abuse by
its own representatives more dangerous than an abuse-surviving rock-star
who appears deranged and talks about child abuse?
love,
melissa,
I want to say all those things that would be better unsaid...
Donna L. Cross [morgana the faerie queene]
In article <5fr4t5$o...@news2.ais.net>,
fut...@ais.net (Christopher Sobczak) wrote:
>DaNSe MaCAbrE (topd...@mindspring.com) wrote:
>
>: I leave you with this: is it ok if I just like the music and nothing
>: more?
>
>No, thats a cop out answer. Becaus there are kids out there who worship
>these losers, and when they say go out and fuck your kid sister, the
>13 year old boy who loves the 'Reverned Manson' is gonna consider it.
>
>who's primary audence is the 13-17 crowd is telling them to rape 8 year
>olds.. and the people who should know better, are to stupid to see the
>implications of such a thing.
>
Obviously we need to discuss this, Chris, and I'm not going to do it on the
open NG again - it's not worth it to me right now. I'm a Manson fan, and you
know that. I should certainly hope by now that you would know that I am quite
far from stupid. As soon as my e-mail is working again, you'll be hearing from
me.
BTW, when the hell did this NG become alt.music.marilyn-manson anyway?
--morgana the faerie queene
--
******************************************************************************
Donna L. Cross d...@xbeams.chem.yale.edu or d...@nincon.com
morgana the faerie queene and CEO of NinCon International, Inc.
Visit NinCon's Web page at http://www.nincon.com
"Crow realized there were two gods - one of them much bigger than the other,
loving his enemies and having all the weapons" --Ted Hughes, 'Crow's Theology'
N+ L+ H+ B+ M+ T++ U+ I P+ F+* S+++ NC++* V++**~ R+ * D~ PB!
******************************************************************************
DaNSe MaCAbrE
On 10 Mar 1997 15:27:03 -0500, hone...@panix.com (}!{) wrote:
-=[My question is: isn't an organized religion which covers up child-abuse by
-=[its own representatives more dangerous than an abuse-surviving rock-star
-=[who appears deranged and talks about child abuse?
EXACTLY! Yes it IS more dangerous. But you forgot that hypocrisy and
christianity go hand in hand, and they have the power to pull the
strings in this country!
DaNSe MaCAbrE
On 10 Mar 1997 20:53:48 GMT, d...@xbeams.chem.yale.edu (Donna L. Cross
[morgana the faerie queene]) wrote:
-=[BTW, when the hell did this NG become alt.music.marilyn-manson anyway?
On Mon, 03 Mar 97 21:00:05 GMT, some guy named jst...@micro-net.com
(-stark- [*WHAT* ever]), not thinking that some people on this
newsgroup may have something VERY bad to say about Marilyn Manson,
wrote:
-=[ hey look! Hope Raudive <jwm...@psu.edu> wrote:
-=[
-=[>...trent, on the other hand, actually has something to say
-=[>conceptually with his music, and even though most of the fanbase probably
-=[>doesn't get it, it doesn't matter - it's still there
-=[
-=[thank you, hope.
-=[
-=[you just proved my marilyn manson point.
-=[
-=[99% of the people listening to MM don't get it. .5% get half of it, and .5%
-=[understand.
-=[
-=[and it doesn't matter if you (the royal 'you'!) don't understand...it's still
-=[there.
-=[
-=[great way to sum it up.
On Tue, 04 Mar 1997 20:18:17 -0800, st...@fucker.com (Lily J Rabbit), a
lovely gal who isnt afraid to express her own opinion out in the open,
said "Oh no you dont Stark!" and wrote:
-=[In article <5ffe4n$q...@brahms.miracle.net>, jst...@micro-net.com (-stark-
-=[[*WHAT* ever]) wrote:
-=[
-=[~* you just proved my marilyn manson point.
-=[~*
-=[~* 99% of the people listening to MM don't get it. .5% get half of it, and .5%
-=[~* understand.
-=[
-=[The trouble is with Manson is that there's 99% of the people
-=[listening to him say things like "fucking 8 year olds is fun"
-=[and thinking that's cool.
-=[
-=[Say all you want about how he's so smart & philisophical
-=[and theres all this deep meaning & crap in his work...
-=[the fact remains that he's out there telling a lot of
-=[young people who don't read Nietzche that things like
-=[murder & child molestation are what cool guys like him do.
-=[
-=[I think that is utterly & completely reprehensible.
-=[And I seem to be the only one.
On 5 Mar 1997 06:40:55 GMT, a lot of shit got written!
Thus beginning alt.music.nin's slow metamorphisis into
alt.music.marilyn-manson
"...times were changing, music was changing, drugs were changing,
PEOPLE were changing. In 2000 years, there wouldnt be anymore men or
women, just wankers." -Trainspotting
snot w goatlips
Starkypoo wrote:
>
> chris wrote:
> >>Jesus, whats wrong with this world when it gets to the point that a band
> who's primary audence is the 13-17 crowd is telling them to rape 8 year
> olds.. and the people who should know better, are to stupid to see the
> implications of such a thing.<<
>
You are stupid, Stark. And a racist to boot. Did I leave out ugly as
shit? Guess so: you're ugly as shit, your web page blows, and your
taste in music sucks the AIDSy spoo out of Keith Haring's decaying ass.
Other than that, you are stupid.
Fuck you.
snot w goatlips
Arcange698
Kill em all trent!
none better than the nails!
-stark- [*WHAT* ever]
hey look! snot w goatlips <goat...@carrasco.edu> wrote:
>You are stupid, Stark. And a racist to boot. Did I leave out ugly as
>shit? Guess so: you're ugly as shit, your web page blows, and your
>taste in music sucks the AIDSy spoo out of Keith Haring's decaying ass.
>
>Other than that, you are stupid.
>
>Fuck you.
>
>snot w goatlips
cool.
hey, when you get your Jim Stark fanclub pack, be sure to call the 900 number.
if you are lucky, you could win my autograph.
in the meantime, keep following my every move, and thanks for the support! be
sure to catch me on tour this summer...
-[stark]-
--
supe...@marilyn-manson.com meta...@nicole-blackman.com jst...@micro-net.com
personal page: www2.miracle.net/~jstark - www.nicole-blackman.com www.23x.com
*** www.marilyn-manson.com www.nincon.com www.amnin.com www.w3tek.com ***
** N++ L+ H++ B+ M+ T+ U++ I++ P+ F+++* S+++* NC++* V++~ R+ * D~ PB+ 1337 **
<BondGirl> So sasha e-mails me like 20 times saying...
<jo-jo> Trent has a mustache?
<gothbunny & faeriehed> lololololololololololol
Jody
> >
> > chris wrote:
> > >>Jesus, whats wrong with this world when it gets to the point that a band
> > who's primary audence is the 13-17 crowd is telling them to rape 8 year
> > olds.. and the people who should know better, are to stupid to see the
> > implications of such a thing.<<
> >
> > #1. you are calling ME stupid with this statement. don't insult me
> > again, chris.
> You are stupid, Stark. And a racist to boot. Did I leave out ugly as
> shit? Guess so: you're ugly as shit, your web page blows, and your
> taste in music sucks the AIDSy spoo out of Keith Haring's decaying ass.
> Other than that, you are stupid.
> Fuck you.
> snot w goatlips
HAHAHAH... another devoted member of the stark fan club.... i guess this
is the "in" thing these days ;)
love and friends,
jody :)
--
***************************************************************************
jody tamar match:) (jo-jo on #amnin & #nin) e-mail:jo...@jobu.net
"stay sane inside insanity" - columbia
"fare thee well... let your life proceed by its own design." - gd
"all that is now...all that is gone...all that's to come... and everything
under the sun is in tune but the sun is eclipsed by the moon..." - pf
http://www.amnin.com/jojo - #amnin rogues gallery
__________________AmNinCode v1.0____________________
N++ L+ H+ B++ M- T- U++ I++ P+ F+ S+ NC V R+ * D PB+ I Am Elitist! :)
____________________________________________________
Jody
-stark- [*WHAT* ever] <meta...@nicole-blackman.com> wrote:
> hey look! snot w goatlips <goat...@carrasco.edu> wrote:
> >You are stupid, Stark. And a racist to boot. Did I leave out ugly as
> >shit? Guess so: you're ugly as shit, your web page blows, and your
> >taste in music sucks the AIDSy spoo out of Keith Haring's decaying ass.
> >
> >Other than that, you are stupid.
> >
> >Fuck you.
> >
> >snot w goatlips
> cool.
> hey, when you get your Jim Stark fanclub pack, be sure to call the 900 number.
> if you are lucky, you could win my autograph.
heeheehee .... i just posted something about the stark fan club ;)
love and friends,
jody :)
--
*************************************************************************
jody tamar match:) (jo-jo on #amnin & #nin) jo...@deathsdoor.com
"stay sane inside insanity" - columbia
"fare thee well...let your life proceed by its own design." - gd
<honeybee> i mean really...what twisted god put me and jody together!?!?
-floro- [as STARK as i wannabe]
meta...@nicole-blackman.com (-stark- [*WHAT* ever]) wrote:
> hey look! snot w goatlips <goat...@carrasco.edu> wrote:
>>You are stupid, Stark. And a racist to boot. Did I leave out ugly as
>>shit? Guess so: you're ugly as shit, your web page blows, and your
>>taste in music sucks the AIDSy spoo out of Keith Haring's decaying ass.
no *i'm* the racist around here....or was that catholic-hater....damn
i'm confused...but be clear on this point...we're *all* assholes.
>>Other than that, you are stupid.
>>
>>Fuck you.
>>
>>snot w goatlips
>cool.
mmmmmm......snot with goatlips.....
>hey, when you get your Jim Stark fanclub pack, be sure to call the 900 number.
>if you are lucky, you could win my autograph.
looking forward to checking out how far you made with that X you been
working on.
>in the meantime, keep following my every move, and thanks for the support! be
>sure to catch me on tour this summer...
aren't you gonna be Fartman for the new revised Jim Rose Circus?
or was Mr. Lifto going to attempt to lift you via nipple rings?
*squirt!*
oh the horror...
>-[stark]-
-[floro]-
.
Jim Stark rocks my little world. Dance on, baby. Dance on. Now,
Blackrose--he's another story. I'd like more than anything to be trapped
in a room with Eric and a nice hand crafted paddle.
DaNSe MaCAbrE
On 13 Mar 1997 21:43:37 GMT, "." <sbar...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
-=[Jim Stark rocks my little world. Dance on, baby. Dance on. Now,
-=[Blackrose--he's another story. I'd like more than anything to be trapped
-=[in a room with Eric and a nice hand crafted paddle.
Ooo! Sounds a little kinky!! Contain yourself my good man!!!