Analysis/Questions of Hooky's Bass in "Technique"
sj...@my-dejanews.com
music, but I have very little education on the subject. So bear with me
here.
Recently, somebody told me to listen to the basslines of bands. Being that
New Order is my favorite, and since Hooky's bass just about defines the
band (at least for me), I thought I'd give it a go with "Technique."
I have heard that NO is unique because unlike most other bands, their bass
is played acoustically, not percussively. In layman's terms, I interpret
that as, "Peter Hook's bass is played more like a guitar than a drum, i.e.,
instead of providing rhythm, it provides melody." Please correct me if I'm
way off there.
Question: What other bands do this? My guess is that The Cure does this.
Who else?
Anyway, here's my analysis of "Technique":
1 - Fine time -- is the bass here at all? Or is it some machine, maybe a
TR-303? I can't tell.
2 - All the way -- bass is very prominent, and is played like a guitar.
3 - Love less -- ibid.
4 - Round and round -- ibid. I'd say that the bass is providing the basic
melody for this song, almost replacing the guitar.
5 - Guilty partner -- bass is very prominent, and is played like a guitar.
6 - Run -- the bass here seems to sound very different. Is it because
Hook's hitting very low notes? It almost sounds like a cello at times.
7 - Mr. disco -- Is the bass even here? I can't figure it out. Or is it
being played percussively here?
8 - Vanishing point -- I seem to find the bass at around 1:20. Played like
a guitar.
9 - Dream attack -- difficulty in finding it. Is it also being played very
low, like in Run? Or is it being played percussively?
Question: Is Peter Hook "strumming" the bass in "Regret" to create that
growling riff?
- SJW
-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own
Rev. Carroll D. Kraston
>I'm not much of a musically-oriented person, i.e., I love to listen to
>music, but I have very little education on the subject. So bear with me
>here.
>
>Recently, somebody told me to listen to the basslines of bands. Being that
>New Order is my favorite, and since Hooky's bass just about defines the
>band (at least for me), I thought I'd give it a go with "Technique."
>I have heard that NO is unique because unlike most other bands, their bass
>is played acoustically, not percussively. In layman's terms, I interpret
>that as, "Peter Hook's bass is played more like a guitar than a drum, i.e.,
>instead of providing rhythm, it provides melody." Please correct me if I'm
>way off there.
Pretty close, I think of it more as "played like a cello", because
they way he moves lines around is more fluid than alot of guitars
IMO...
>
>Question: What other bands do this? My guess is that The Cure does this.
>Who else?
The Cure
Steve Severin(Siouxsie & The Banshees)
Simon Raymonde(Cocteau Twins)
the bassist for the Dambuilders
Chris Avery of Janes Addiction(see Mountain Song)
Me(not that you can buy my stuff yet)
Mike Conroy(Modern English)
The bassist for Xymox
keep in mind all these people do it a bit different from Hooky, except
the guy in the Dambuilders, who comes close to plagiarism, but they're
all somewhat influenced by him.
>
>Anyway, here's my analysis of "Technique":
>
>1 - Fine time -- is the bass here at all? Or is it some machine, maybe a
>TR-303? I can't tell.
There is, it comes in and goes out, toward the end, you can hear it
playing sort of a coda while the sheep samples are baaa-ing...
>
>2 - All the way -- bass is very prominent, and is played like a guitar.
>
>3 - Love less -- ibid.
>
>4 - Round and round -- ibid. I'd say that the bass is providing the basic
>melody for this song, almost replacing the guitar.
I still say "more like a cello"..but perhaps that's just me..
>
>5 - Guilty partner -- bass is very prominent, and is played like a guitar.
>
>6 - Run -- the bass here seems to sound very different. Is it because
>Hook's hitting very low notes? It almost sounds like a cello at times.
>
>7 - Mr. disco -- Is the bass even here? I can't figure it out. Or is it
>being played percussively here?
It's there, just rather subtle, and there's a synth bass as well
>
>8 - Vanishing point -- I seem to find the bass at around 1:20. Played like
>a guitar.
>
>9 - Dream attack -- difficulty in finding it. Is it also being played very
>low, like in Run? Or is it being played percussively?
>
>Question: Is Peter Hook "strumming" the bass in "Regret" to create that
>growling riff?
>
Yup..
fernando
>On Thu, 10 Dec 1998 21:09:25 GMT, sj...@my-dejanews.com wrote:
>
>>I'm not much of a musically-oriented person, i.e., I love to listen to
>>music, but I have very little education on the subject. So bear with me
>>here.
>>
>>Recently, somebody told me to listen to the basslines of bands. Being that
>>New Order is my favorite, and since Hooky's bass just about defines the
>>band (at least for me), I thought I'd give it a go with "Technique."
>>I have heard that NO is unique because unlike most other bands, their bass
>>is played acoustically, not percussively. In layman's terms, I interpret
>>that as, "Peter Hook's bass is played more like a guitar than a drum, i.e.,
>>instead of providing rhythm, it provides melody." Please correct me if I'm
>>way off there.
>
>Pretty close, I think of it more as "played like a cello", because
>they way he moves lines around is more fluid than alot of guitars
>IMO...
The article on Musician (?) not long ago, pointed on how Hook plays
the bass in an unconventional way. My impression was that it was not
even a "would be" guitar part... but that in the end, it works. Also, thanks
to the use the bass sequencer.
>>Question: What other bands do this? My guess is that The Cure does this.
>>Who else?
>
>The Cure
>Steve Severin(Siouxsie & The Banshees)
>Simon Raymonde(Cocteau Twins)
>the bassist for the Dambuilders
>Chris Avery of Janes Addiction(see Mountain Song)
>Me(not that you can buy my stuff yet)
>Mike Conroy(Modern English)
>The bassist for Xymox
And Also the Trees
House of Love (in some songs, it seems)
But I think that The Cure is the closest one.. especially since Head on the
Door.
>
>keep in mind all these people do it a bit different from Hooky, except
>the guy in the Dambuilders, who comes close to plagiarism, but they're
>all somewhat influenced by him.
>>
>>Anyway, here's my analysis of "Technique":
>>
>>1 - Fine time -- is the bass here at all? Or is it some machine, maybe a
>>TR-303? I can't tell.
>
>There is, it comes in and goes out, toward the end, you can hear it
>playing sort of a coda while the sheep samples are baaa-ing...
On the live versions he did play some bass lines, but then remained
standing arms crossed from midway to the end.
-fernando
:: Modify email on reply by removing my name and period ::
-*- -*- -*- -*- -*- -*- -*- -*- -*- -*- -*- -*- -*- -*- -*- -*- -*- -*- -*-
Through the black port, the cyclone sailed her heart, where the bora blows
a wind that cries through the town, across the sea, she says she won't go.
___________________ "Cyclone" :: Silver Soul :: And Also The Trees :: 1998
-*- -*- -*- -*- -*- -*- -*- -*- -*- -*- -*- -*- -*- -*- -*- -*- -*- -*- -*-
A Plato
Redding 1993. Hook dominates all the songs. The Fine Time & Regret
versions are astounding. It is unfortunate that Hook's bass winds up so
diluted in the album versions. He is the best thing NO has.
Substance Abuse is without a doubt the best live NO and IMO the best NO
recording of them all.
sj...@my-dejanews.com wrote in message <74pda1$1m7$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>...
>I'm not much of a musically-oriented person, i.e., I love to listen to
>music, but I have very little education on the subject. So bear with me
>here.
>
>Recently, somebody told me to listen to the basslines of bands. Being that
>New Order is my favorite, and since Hooky's bass just about defines the
>band (at least for me), I thought I'd give it a go with "Technique."
>I have heard that NO is unique because unlike most other bands, their bass
>is played acoustically, not percussively. In layman's terms, I interpret
>that as, "Peter Hook's bass is played more like a guitar than a drum, i.e.,
>instead of providing rhythm, it provides melody." Please correct me if I'm
>way off there.
>
A Plato
Abuse. Sheesh.
A Plato wrote in message ...
Ravi
there songs due to hookys style ..in many ways it performs the functions o
fthe lead guitar and barneys guitar provides the lyrical edge and
melody...which hang around the bass.. While the drums give the drive the
urgency and to an extent the feel of the tracks defining time, Gillians
keyboards prvide the other more melodic edges and bookend all the other
components allowing them to come together and occassionally forms a bridge
between the guitars and drums
put thats just my viewpoint
Rav
ra...@hotmail.com
--
Boards don't hit back- Bruce Lee , Enter the Dragon
sj...@my-dejanews.com wrote in article <74pda1$1m7$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>...
> I'm not much of a musically-oriented person, i.e., I love to listen to
> music, but I have very little education on the subject. So bear with me
> here.
>
> Recently, somebody told me to listen to the basslines of bands. Being
that
> New Order is my favorite, and since Hooky's bass just about defines the
> band (at least for me), I thought I'd give it a go with "Technique."
> I have heard that NO is unique because unlike most other bands, their
bass
> is played acoustically, not percussively. In layman's terms, I interpret
> that as, "Peter Hook's bass is played more like a guitar than a drum,
i.e.,
> instead of providing rhythm, it provides melody." Please correct me if
I'm
> way off there.
>
> Question: What other bands do this? My guess is that The Cure does this.
> Who else?
>
> Anyway, here's my analysis of "Technique":
>
> 1 - Fine time -- is the bass here at all? Or is it some machine, maybe a
> TR-303? I can't tell.
>
> 2 - All the way -- bass is very prominent, and is played like a guitar.
>
> 3 - Love less -- ibid.
>
> 4 - Round and round -- ibid. I'd say that the bass is providing the
basic
> melody for this song, almost replacing the guitar.
>
> 5 - Guilty partner -- bass is very prominent, and is played like a
guitar.
>
> 6 - Run -- the bass here seems to sound very different. Is it because
> Hook's hitting very low notes? It almost sounds like a cello at times.
>
> 7 - Mr. disco -- Is the bass even here? I can't figure it out. Or is it
> being played percussively here?
>
> 8 - Vanishing point -- I seem to find the bass at around 1:20. Played
like
> a guitar.
>
> 9 - Dream attack -- difficulty in finding it. Is it also being played
very
> low, like in Run? Or is it being played percussively?
>
> Question: Is Peter Hook "strumming" the bass in "Regret" to create that
> growling riff?
>
FourJacksAndAJill
became fond of the single-note runs on the lower strings. He was able to
get away with it because of bass sequencing in the songs...however, on
some songs and especially JD he has a nice balance between melody and
holding down the groove, like in "Ceremony." The Cure often have the most
similar sound, not least of which is because of their use of the Fender
Bass VI as well. So Hook could almost be called "lead bassist" in many
cases. Without the bottom end though (as I've discovered in writing my
own songs) the song can get kind of lost unless there are chords clearly
indicating the progression.
Well, enough of the technobabble...
Xavier
--
BXK M o t h e r , M a y
bk...@dept.english.upenn.edu I S l e e p
http://www.english.upenn.edu/~bkim0 W i t h D a n g e r ?
X---X---X---X---X---X---X---X---X---X---X---X---X---X---X---X---X---X---X
ajw...@ix.netcom.com
>
> I'm not much of a musically-oriented person, i.e., I love to listen to
> music, but I have very little education on the subject. So bear with me
> here.
>
> Recently, somebody told me to listen to the basslines of bands. Being that
> New Order is my favorite, and since Hooky's bass just about defines the
> band (at least for me), I thought I'd give it a go with "Technique."
> I have heard that NO is unique because unlike most other bands, their bass
> is played acoustically, not percussively. In layman's terms, I interpret
> that as, "Peter Hook's bass is played more like a guitar than a drum, i.e.,
> instead of providing rhythm, it provides melody." Please correct me if I'm
> way off there.
The way the story goes is that Joy Division rehearsed next door to a
really loud reggae group who played so loudly that the only way that
hooky could hear himself play was to play way up the neck of the bass
and to play melodically as opposed to rythmically (the traditional bass
frequencies being taken up by the band next door)... thats the story of
how the whole thing started, but it might or might not be true...
Basically, everyone in the band would play riffs when they jammed and
Ian would pick out the riffs and then the band would arrange them... so
they really all play lead to a certain extent or another... the other
thing that they played around with was to bring the drums upfront as
almost a lead instrument (which Hannett empahsized in the studio)
>
> Question: What other bands do this? My guess is that The Cure does this.
> Who else?
Well any band that rips off JD/NO does it (The Cure included... check
out their sound prior to JD and then after... its a pretty drastic
change... and check out the lame Hooky parody stage antics that their
bass player trots out)
>
> Anyway, here's my analysis of "Technique":
>
> 1 - Fine time -- is the bass here at all? Or is it some machine, maybe a
> TR-303? I can't tell.
>
> 2 - All the way -- bass is very prominent, and is played like a guitar.
>
> 3 - Love less -- ibid.
>
> 4 - Round and round -- ibid. I'd say that the bass is providing the basic
> melody for this song, almost replacing the guitar.
>
> 5 - Guilty partner -- bass is very prominent, and is played like a guitar.
>
> 6 - Run -- the bass here seems to sound very different. Is it because
> Hook's hitting very low notes? It almost sounds like a cello at times.
>
> 7 - Mr. disco -- Is the bass even here? I can't figure it out. Or is it
> being played percussively here?
>
> 8 - Vanishing point -- I seem to find the bass at around 1:20. Played like
> a guitar.
>
> 9 - Dream attack -- difficulty in finding it. Is it also being played very
> low, like in Run? Or is it being played percussively?
>
> Question: Is Peter Hook "strumming" the bass in "Regret" to create that
> growling riff?
The one other characteristic of Hooks sound is the Clone Theory pedal
that he runs through... its basically a flanger that thickens the sound
and provides harmonics in addition to the note being played... thats why
a single Hook note sounds like a bunch...
A.
ajw...@ix.netcom.com
>
> >The one other characteristic of Hooks sound is the Clone Theory pedal
> >that he runs through... its basically a flanger that thickens the sound
> >and provides harmonics in addition to the note being played... thats why
> >a single Hook note sounds like a bunch...
> >
> >A.
>
> that sound. you have blown his cover!!!
Hook himself gave up that info awhile ago in an interview... the only
problem is trying *not* to sound Hookish if you play through one of
those Clone Theory pedals... its so characteristic of his sound that
they should put a skull and crossbones on it
A.
Oew Nrder
FourJacksAndAJill wrote:
> Without the bottom end though (as I've discovered in writing my
> own songs) the song can get kind of lost unless there are chords clearly
> indicating the progression.
>
>
well, that's the thing with having Gillian - when Hooky's off going nuts up
highon his bass, Gillian's got the synth-bass going.....Perfect Kiss is one
example...
Evan
---------
"Anytime you want genuine or false sympathy, I'm yer qwert"
Fiona C.
sj...@my-dejanews.com
bk...@dept.english.upenn.edu (FourJacksAndAJill) wrote:
> I was always very influenced by Hook's basslines--and I play guitar, so I
> became fond of the single-note runs on the lower strings. He was able to
> get away with it because of bass sequencing in the songs...however, on
> some songs and especially JD he has a nice balance between melody and
> holding down the groove, like in "Ceremony." The Cure often have the most
> similar sound, not least of which is because of their use of the Fender
> Bass VI as well. So Hook could almost be called "lead bassist" in many
> own songs) the song can get kind of lost unless there are chords clearly
> indicating the progression.
>
I'm going to continue my ignorance here -- both you and Fernando have referred
to "bass sequencer" or "bass sequencing." What exactly is this?
FourJacksAndAJill
: I'm going to continue my ignorance here -- both you and Fernando have referred
: to "bass sequencer" or "bass sequencing." What exactly is this?
It's the synthesized bass patterns you find in many NO songs that are
really rhythmic and dancey and obviously fake. Not that it sounds bad!:)
Like in "Blue Monday," the main bass part is a synthesized bass pattern
sequence, that disco-sounding thang.
If you want a really drastic example you can always go back to any good
dance song from the '80s in the electro-style...Shannon's "Let The Music
Play" comes to mind (but that's 'cause I've been listening to this Tommy
Boy compilation called the Perfect Beats Vol. 2 with Shannon and the
electro version of "Confusion"!).
Hope this helps!
Vinnie
Therefore the bass, besides being the only 'acoustic' non-programmed
instrument, is 'free' to go anywhere it wants during the vocals.
Also over the years Hooky has become such a major, distinctive, player in
the sound of N.O. that it's impossible to even listen to their music
without his bass.
In Joy Division times it was a cool three man sound of serious drums, evil
guitar and heavy bass. Nowadays it only Hooky who's responsible for the
'muscle' in the band!
Mat Tarbox
>that he runs through... its basically a flanger that thickens the sound
>and provides harmonics in addition to the note being played... thats why
>a single Hook note sounds like a bunch...
>
>A.
man i've been playing years with mad chorus pedals wondering how hook gets
that sound. you have blown his cover!!!
it's just the best sound that you can hear, that mister hook. well, simon
raymond from cocteau twins is brilliant as well.
((alt.music.new-order needs this good chatter substance such as all this
technical bass subject. ~ you gotta love the internet. where else can you
ever have this discussion anywhere with so many educated folk??))
Rev. Carroll D. Kraston
>The one other characteristic of Hooks sound is the Clone Theory pedal
>that he runs through... its basically a flanger that thickens the sound
>and provides harmonics in addition to the note being played... thats why
>a single Hook note sounds like a bunch...
>
THAT'S it!
I was trying to remember what that pedal was, though actually I think
it's a chorus, not that there's much difference between a chorus and a
flanger..
Rev. Carroll D. Kraston
wrote:
>
>
>FourJacksAndAJill wrote:
>
>> Without the bottom end though (as I've discovered in writing my
>> own songs) the song can get kind of lost unless there are chords clearly
>> indicating the progression.
>>
>>
>
>well, that's the thing with having Gillian - when Hooky's off going nuts up
>highon his bass, Gillian's got the synth-bass going.....Perfect Kiss is one
>example...
>
>
This isn't always the case though, sometimes the lack of a traditional
bottom end can be compensated for with fuller guitar chords..
But some songs don't really need a traditional bottom end, I consider
whatever Hooky plays to be the bottom end anyway, even though it's
played so different, because even way up the neck, the sound tends to
sound thicker than a guitar usually would..
Rev. Carroll D. Kraston
>
>I'm going to continue my ignorance here -- both you and Fernando have referred
>to "bass sequencer" or "bass sequencing." What exactly is this?
>
Sequenced synth basslines, a sequencer is a device that allows you to
take synth, sampler, and drum machine sounds and arrange them so that
you essentially have a digitally recorded part. Some artists play
nothing but sequencers, especially in Rave Techno music, Drum & Bass,
Industrial Dance music, and 80's Technopop
Rev. Carroll D. Kraston
<MAT.T...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>>The one other characteristic of Hooks sound is the Clone Theory pedal
>>that he runs through... its basically a flanger that thickens the sound
>>and provides harmonics in addition to the note being played... thats why
>>a single Hook note sounds like a bunch...
>>
>>A.
>
>man i've been playing years with mad chorus pedals wondering how hook gets
>that sound. you have blown his cover!!!
>
>it's just the best sound that you can hear, that mister hook. well, simon
>raymond from cocteau twins is brilliant as well.
>
I've gotten pretty close(close enough) approximations with both of the
chorus pedals I've owned. Although, I currently have a bass chorus,
and I'm guessing the guitar one would sound even better, but it still
sounds pretty spiffy unless someone screws up my knobs..but I
basically know where to set them to get what I want..
Rev. Carroll D. Kraston
wrote:
>It's much more simple: Bernie cannot play guitar and sing at the same time.
this theory doesn't account for the JD days though, I mean, She's Lost
Control has a pretty upfront bassline, so does Spirit...shit, that is
the right title isn't it? damn beer...
Anddon't forget that Ceremony was written by Joy Division, the bass is
the primary sound in that.
fernando
>sj...@my-dejanews.com wrote:
>>
>> I'm not much of a musically-oriented person, i.e., I love to listen to
>> music, but I have very little education on the subject. So bear with me
>> here.
>>
>> Recently, somebody told me to listen to the basslines of bands. Being that
>> New Order is my favorite, and since Hooky's bass just about defines the
>> band (at least for me), I thought I'd give it a go with "Technique."
>> I have heard that NO is unique because unlike most other bands, their bass
>> is played acoustically, not percussively. In layman's terms, I interpret
>> that as, "Peter Hook's bass is played more like a guitar than a drum, i.e.,
>> instead of providing rhythm, it provides melody." Please correct me if I'm
>> way off there.
>
>The way the story goes is that Joy Division rehearsed next door to a
>really loud reggae group who played so loudly that the only way that
>hooky could hear himself play was to play way up the neck of the bass
>and to play melodically as opposed to rythmically (the traditional bass
>frequencies being taken up by the band next door)... thats the story of
>how the whole thing started, but it might or might not be true...
yeah, this is the common story... I thought that Deborah's book shed some
more light on this... but I cannot remember what it was.
>Basically, everyone in the band would play riffs when they jammed and
>Ian would pick out the riffs and then the band would arrange them...
Deborah gives the most credit to Bernard about the arrangements...
she also mentions that Ian's biggest contribution was his humming into
a recorder -- I guess these are his "riff" contributions. Then there is the
story told by Steven, where Ian walks into rehearsals by playing this
"ding ding ding" on the guitar, and they wrote Day of the Lords around that.
> so
>they really all play lead to a certain extent or another... the other
>thing that they played around with was to bring the drums upfront as
>almost a lead instrument (which Hannett empahsized in the studio)
And which I think should be as highlighted as Hook's bass playing and style.
I mean, take away the level and style of drums from Atmosphere, and the
heart of the song is gone... it drives the song.
Jose De La
most admit that I am very, very shocked to see a New Order fan who is
appreciative of their music despite not knowing how 75% of it is created. In
other words, most N/O fans (IMHO) are attracted to them because of their
heavy yet tasteful use of synthesizers and sequencers and are techno rave
freaks (I am both techno geek and hard rocker) . At least that's why they
sound so appealing to me. That mix of technology and traditional rock, I
find irresistible. To add to the explanation, have you noticed how many N/O
songs sound so tightly timed, so continuously pulsating Electronic and
danceable (Fine Time, Round&R, Mr.. Disco, Chemical,Blue Monday, Perfect
Kiss, 586) Yet some sound almost completely acoustic and natural (Regret,
All the way, Love vigilantes, As it is when...) more rockish? That's what
happens when you use sequencers in the first case an put them aside on the
second.
Hope this helps :-)
Rev. Carroll D. Kraston wrote in message
<367230f9...@news.pacifier.com>...
Jose De La
enough to see them at Th Reading festival. However, I have downloaded
several tracks of the show and I must say I am kind of disappointed that
Hooky's playing was not up to par with what it usually is..Is it me, the
Mp3s or RAM files or his bass was practically missing from the show?? I
mean, I got TBTHOG, True faith and Regret from the show and at least from
the first two, it seemed to me he was just coming and going like
improvising..in a -Here , take that,here's a note for ya..Here;s another
one- kind of way.Without direction... I MISS THAT BASELINE!!! HOOKY WHERE
WAS IT?. Can anyone expand on this and let me know if that bass was there at
the show on the rest of the songs??.How did it sound live..Please I need to
know..! God I hope so. I can not wait until I can get my hands on a bootleg
CD.
Rev. Carroll D. Kraston wrote in message
<367232e8...@news.pacifier.com>...
fernando
>I agree that Hooky is the muscle of N/O.
I wonder how many people have this view point? I do not think that anyone
knows enough (except close to the band) to really know who is the muscle of
New Order. Is it Hook?
There has been some comments on Steve being the Backbone of NewOrder...
would he also be the muscle?
-fernando
PS this is not about who is the most important member, but rather, who
controls and/or provides the sound of New Order -- as you hear it, at
least. Me, I always thought that it was Steve...
sj...@my-dejanews.com
"Vinnie" <Vinni...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> It's much more simple: Bernie cannot play guitar and sing at the same time.
What? Is this true? Bernard Sumner is unable to play guitar and sing at the
same time? Isn't this a rather serious detriment for a musician?
sj...@my-dejanews.com
messages...anyway:
So is Peter Hook the "inventor" of the "play the bass like a guitar/cello"
method? Or was there somebody else before him?
sj...@my-dejanews.com
> most admit that I am very, very shocked to see a New Order fan who is
> appreciative of their music despite not knowing how 75% of it is created. In
> other words, most N/O fans (IMHO) are attracted to them because of their
> heavy yet tasteful use of synthesizers and sequencers and are techno rave
> freaks (I am both techno geek and hard rocker) . At least that's why they
> sound so appealing to me. That mix of technology and traditional rock, I
> find irresistible. To add to the explanation, have you noticed how many N/O
> songs sound so tightly timed, so continuously pulsating Electronic and
> danceable (Fine Time, Round&R, Mr.. Disco, Chemical,Blue Monday, Perfect
> Kiss, 586) Yet some sound almost completely acoustic and natural (Regret,
> All the way, Love vigilantes, As it is when...) more rockish? That's what
> happens when you use sequencers in the first case an put them aside on the
> second.
Hey Jose,
Well, I may not know that much about music, but I am an avid listener, and
the reason why New Order attracted me so was exactly as you described: the
seamless integration of two different worlds of music, the tranditional and
technological, the acoustic and the electronic. Listening to "Technique" and
"Brotherhood" side-by-side makes you wonder how wonderfully different the
band can sound.
I think you hit upon a key aspect of NO -- their tasteful use of
synthesizers. That's what really separates them from the slew of '80's bands.
I mean "Brotherhood" came out in '86, right in the middle of that synth-pop
revolution, but goodness, I don't think it sounds anything like the bulk of
the albums that were out at that time.
Oh, and by the way, I also consider myself a "techno rave freak." Old Belgian
techno (Transformer 2, Mellow Mellow, old Lords of Acid) and Orbital are
probably what I listen to most, although I'm slowly learning to like jungle.
Kind of.
Iris of Autumn
sj...@my-dejanews.com wrote in article <7536so$uo2$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>...
> In article <74sj50$3v9$1...@news2.xs4all.nl>,
> "Vinnie" <Vinni...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > It's much more simple: Bernie cannot play guitar and sing at the same
time.
>
> What? Is this true? Bernard Sumner is unable to play guitar and sing at
the
> same time? Isn't this a rather serious detriment for a musician?
>
> - SJW
play....Bernard can quite bloody well play and sing at the same time......
ajw...@ix.netcom.com
>
> sj...@my-dejanews.com wrote in article <7536so$uo2$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>...
> > In article <74sj50$3v9$1...@news2.xs4all.nl>,
> > "Vinnie" <Vinni...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > > It's much more simple: Bernie cannot play guitar and sing at the same
> time.
> >
> > What? Is this true? Bernard Sumner is unable to play guitar and sing at
> the
> > same time? Isn't this a rather serious detriment for a musician?
Well if you look carefully, none of these tossers qualify as
"musicians"... thats what makes much of what they do so... beyond
definition...
> >
> > - SJW
> personally,, unless i have been beyond the piss when seeing NO
> play....Bernard can quite bloody well play and sing at the same time......
He can strum a single chord, but he still hasn't mastered the changing
of chords while he is singing... so bloody what? Lou Reed cant
either...
A.
eddz
<newdaw...@england.com> wrote:
>
>sj...@my-dejanews.com wrote in article <7536so$uo2$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>...
>> In article <74sj50$3v9$1...@news2.xs4all.nl>,
>> "Vinnie" <Vinni...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> > It's much more simple: Bernie cannot play guitar and sing at the same
>time.
>>
>> What? Is this true? Bernard Sumner is unable to play guitar and sing at
>the
>> same time? Isn't this a rather serious detriment for a musician?
>>
>personally,, unless i have been beyond the piss when seeing NO
>play....Bernard can quite bloody well play and sing at the same time......
ah, but he SAYS he can't, dahling =p
he can only play chords, as can i.
-eddz
Jose De La
there not been in the dance scene anymore. I have some Orbital, Orb (a bit
too spacey for me) Shamen, Sunscream, 808 etc. Most of my techno CDS are of
assorted groups and I can never remember their names. I used to play a lot
with sequencers and have a setup at home that it's just collecting dust
(work 11 hours a day) One day I'll post some of my stuff on the group to see
the reaction. Oh, and by the way you so accuratelly described Hooky's
playing, I'll say you are Well ahead of me when it comes to music.
Take care.
sj...@my-dejanews.com wrote in message <7536is$ucu$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>...
Dirk Pehrke
> What? Is this true? Bernard Sumner is unable to play guitar and sing at the
> same time? Isn't this a rather serious detriment for a musician?
>
> - SJW
So so: >>I can't slap, I can't pop, I don't know notes, I don't know any
technique; I just know New Order.<< Pete Hook in a German Musicians
Magazin in the Mid-80ies. (Excuse my retranslation). By the way: I
really admire Hookys way of playing the bass. But as a long time New
Order and JD Fan I have to admit: I HATE his sound. Mr. Hannett: Do you
hear me praying for your ears! I just wish, you would destroy all of his
chorus bubble-gum pedals, his daily changed strings and would send him
back to the sound if not of UP than at least of the melodic parts of
Closer or songs like ceremony.
Dirk
Iris of Autumn
<3675861c...@news.gate.net>...
> On Mon, 14 Dec 1998 18:57:54 GMT, "Iris of Autumn"
> <newdaw...@england.com> wrote:
?
> >>
> >personally,, unless i have been beyond the piss when seeing NO
time......
> ah, but he SAYS he can't, dahling =p
> he can only play chords, as can i.
>
> -eddz
well...i wouldn't expect him to be a stevie ray vaughn.kin hell, chords are
still *playing* right? *doesn't really care though..hell...*
Mel
:oP hiyers eddie
Rev. Carroll D. Kraston
Hooky's been using his Clone Theory chorus pedal for ages...
I like it, I think it gives it a more unique sound than a dry signal.
Rev. Carroll D. Kraston
>I think my ISP's newsserver is screwing up, so there may be two of these
>messages...anyway:
>
>So is Peter Hook the "inventor" of the "play the bass like a guitar/cello"
>method? Or was there somebody else before him?
>
Jack Bruce also had a few melodic lines, but was more guitar oriented.
the way I'd put it is that Hooky is the inventor of the "new wave
bassline"..
Jeremy A.Smith
> I think my ISP's newsserver is screwing up, so there may be two of these
> messages...anyway:
>
> So is Peter Hook the "inventor" of the "play the bass like a
guitar/cello"
> method? Or was there somebody else before him?
Probably loads of people, but they just didn't get the opportunity to
release any records (and sell load) and thus oblivion was their fate.
Jeremy.
--
Replace 'X' in e-mail with 'J' if you wish to e-mail me
Dirk Pehrke
overdoing it by far. Listening to his bass-sound is like eating
candyfloss when you're hungry. Feels good for a few minutes, then you
can't stand it anymore. Why do all these people who were really
inventive at the beginning of their career end with a radiocompatible
overEXITed overcompressed overenhanced deadchorused boring sound - and
use it forever?
Dirk
P.S. Are you really a "Rev."???
Rev. Carroll D. Kraston schrieb:
sj...@my-dejanews.com
<ferdinand.disorder-ya02...@news.concentric.net>,
ferdinand...@decades.cnchost.com (fernando) wrote:
> In article <uCAHsXxJ#GA.324@upnetnews03>, "Jose De La" <Jrd...@msn.com>
wrote:
>
> >I agree that Hooky is the muscle of N/O.
>
> I wonder how many people have this view point? I do not think that anyone
> knows enough (except close to the band) to really know who is the muscle of
> New Order. Is it Hook?
>
> There has been some comments on Steve being the Backbone of NewOrder...
> would he also be the muscle?
>
> -fernando
>
> PS this is not about who is the most important member, but rather, who
> controls and/or provides the sound of New Order -- as you hear it, at
> least. Me, I always thought that it was Steve...
I think the drummer is the backbone of many great bands. I think of people
like Bonham of Led Zeppelin, Phil Collins of Genesis (more for his singing
than his rhythms, I guess), etc.
I remember you made a comment some time ago, that without Steve's drums in
"Atmosphere," the song would be much less. I'm in complete agreement with
you -- especially after listening to "Avalanche." There's another song where
Steve's drums play a huge part. Not as present as "Atmopshere," but still
quite an impact.
fernando
>In article
><ferdinand.disorder-ya02...@news.concentric.net>,
>ferdinand...@decades.cnchost.com (fernando) wrote:
>
>> In article <uCAHsXxJ#GA.324@upnetnews03>, "Jose De La" <Jrd...@msn.com>
>wrote:
>>
>> >I agree that Hooky is the muscle of N/O.
>>
>> I wonder how many people have this view point? I do not think that anyone
>> knows enough (except close to the band) to really know who is the muscle of
>> New Order. Is it Hook?
>>
>> There has been some comments on Steve being the Backbone of NewOrder...
>> would he also be the muscle?
>>
>> -fernando
>>
>> PS this is not about who is the most important member, but rather, who
>> controls and/or provides the sound of New Order -- as you hear it, at
>> least. Me, I always thought that it was Steve...
>
>I think the drummer is the backbone of many great bands. I think of people
>like Bonham of Led Zeppelin, Phil Collins of Genesis (more for his singing
>than his rhythms, I guess), etc.
I listen to rock groups in the same way -- paying a lot of attention to the
drums and bass. The Who would be one of those... on occassions, I do latch
onto the guitar, as in the case of Jimmy Page... though I agree that Bonham
is extremely important.
With Genesis, I do like Phil's style there... though not so much the
singing, especially
post ABACAB.
It seems that Steve may be more integral to the New Order sound than Bonham,
in the sense of production and ideas beyond the drums. This is just
distilling what
I have read over many articles, but just my opinion.
>
>I remember you made a comment some time ago, that without Steve's drums in
>"Atmosphere," the song would be much less. I'm in complete agreement with
>you -- especially after listening to "Avalanche." There's another song where
>Steve's drums play a huge part. Not as present as "Atmopshere," but still
>quite an impact.
yeah... I do not think that Atmosphere lyrics are that strong on their own,
unlike
many other lyrics written by Ian. The guitar and synth are fine, but
nothing great
on their own. Hook's bass line is very nice... but I think that it is the
drums that
hypnotize your and take you through the moods of the song and make all else
be great when packed together...
-fernando
Rev. Carroll D. Kraston
>
>I don't think Dave of the Dambuilders went quite that far (he's a great
>bassist, but didn't spend as much time playing high notes), it's a bit of a
>pain to sing and jump all over the fretboard at the same time.
>
Oh yeah, I mean, he's definately more low/midrangey, but the flow of
the melodiesis very similar, and the fact that he's doing melodic
leads is very Hookyish...
But of course there's differences.
I wasn't trying to put the Dambuilders down, I kinda liked them,
especially that violinist...ooooh baby, she looked GOOD when I saw
them...er...ahem...
But the first time I heard Shrine on MTV, I thought it was New Order
for a second, then I looked up, saw the band, and the guitars came
on..so I grumbled for awhile, and ended up seeing them a few years
after..got a Tshirt and a sticker too...