The Drinking Song
MSantLucia
Anyone else get the impression that The Drinking Song has enormous meaning
to Jian. Is the song about an experience he had with a friend who died
(committed suicide?) after they were partying.
We've seen the guys live about 10 times in the last 4 years and at EVERY
show Jian gets very emotional. Every time he sings the line "I never
drank again" he clutches the charm on the necklace he wears and looks very
anguished. Did he quit drinking and is the charm a reminder to him of a
fateful night with a friend?
Any Fruvous experts out there want to comment?
P.S. Sorry if you got this post twice, we were editing a similar post and
AO(HELL) kicked us out of the newsgroup, so we're not sure if it was
actually posted.
Mike & Kelly
Buffalo, NY
colleen campbell
MSantLucia (msant...@aol.com) wrote:
: We've seen the guys live about 10 times in the last 4 years and at EVERY
: show Jian gets very emotional. Every time he sings the line "I never
: drank again" he clutches the charm on the necklace he wears and looks very
: anguished. Did he quit drinking and is the charm a reminder to him of a
: fateful night with a friend?
That's pretty much the accepted interpretation, yes. Jian does not choose
to comment on his actions, though; he's not comfortable discussing it, as
far as anyone asking him has reported to me. He has been known to cry on
stage during this song, and I remember last September in Cleveland, both
Marty and I commented that the look on his face was indescribable, while
he swung the mic into the audience for us to sing the chorus. But I guess
to me, this topic really seems too personal to explore in any more depth
than that, sorry.
ceecee
--
Colleen Campbell o/~ lost in Fruphoria o/~ cee...@thenet.net
"I just ate rocks. Now I'm going to go wash it down with a few ants."
-Adam, who proceeded to lick the wall and then vigorously scrub out
his mouth, upon evaluating the taste of heavy-duty insect killer.
Going Polo
Actually, I found out Dave wrote it and upon research of the phrase , "And
the band played on," discovered that the song discusses the absurdity the
circumstances surrounding Rock Hudson's death and the AIDS epidemic. The
phrase itself is used as a metaphor for ignorance and intolerance while
others suffer.
The movie "And the Band Played On" (Alan Alda, Mathew Modine) doesn't tell
a whole lot about Hudson, but the book goes into a lot more detail. For
those of you not familiar with Randy Schiltes book, it details the
American government's failure to recognize AIDS as a national epidemic.
The point of the book and I think "The Drinking Song," is that it wasn't
until a celebrity was diagnosed HIV-positive, that anyone took notice.
The most moving passage comes near the end of the book and it details the
scene of helicopters and newsteams circling over Hudson's stretcher in
1985. Again, most people at that time thought of AIDS as a gay disease,
including the Reagan administration, and no money or effort was put forth
until Hudson made national news. In the meantime, thousands and thousands
more people became infected and died.
"And the band played on
As the helicopters whirred..."
There's more to the interpretation, but I have to go....This should get
you started.
Bill
colleen campbell
Going Polo (goin...@aol.com) wrote:
: Actually, I found out Dave wrote it and upon research of the phrase , "And
: the band played on," discovered that the song discusses the absurdity the
: circumstances surrounding Rock Hudson's death and the AIDS epidemic. The
: phrase itself is used as a metaphor for ignorance and intolerance while
: others suffer.
<snip of interpretation>
: There's more to the interpretation, but I have to go....This should get
: you started.
I have only one thing to say, Bill.
"Jean (sic) relates how sometimes people impose all kinds of ideas about
what their songs are about, that aren't actually there. 'There's a song
called I Love My Boss, which is kind of poking fun at employers. But
that's pretty much it - it's not really a sophisticated song, and yet
there was areview that said "and the brilliant anti-bourgeoisie diatribe I
Love My Boss exposes the class divisions. .. " Well, I guess we're
smarter than we think! And B.J. Don't Cry was Baby Jesus - two pages of
the Nativity, Shakespeare underpinning the Nativity.'
"Dave remembers that they chatted with the fellow who wrote that. 'We
said, "Wow, we read your B.J. Don't Cry interpretation. That's pretty
wild." And he said, "That's it, isn't it? I haven't missed something,
have I?" So sometimes you've just got to leave it with people. They can
do what they want with your songs.'
"Or as Jean says, 'You feel kind of embarrassed saying, "No, it's just a
crap song I wrote in three minutes, dictated by rhyme more than anything
else.'"
from Folk Roots, October 1996, No. 160., page 45.
TraugottCM
I'm probably going to regret replying to this thread, as my brain is still
fried from three Fruvous shows in three days and an overload of joyous
music and fru-gatherings, but I read this thread before the shows down
here started, have had some time to think about it, and to experience the
Drinking Song live while thinking about it. So, here goes....
Obviously this song has meaning for Jian, and probably for the other guys
in the band as well; it is a beautiful song and has many layers of
meaning, at least to me. The first time I saw them perform it, at the
Birchmere, I couldn't see the guys' faces (bad seats), but completely
immersed myself in the song. I was sitting with Ellen and Zard, three
dear friends squashed in a rather small space, and it seemed the most
natural thing in the world to put my arms around them and sway to the
music together and ponder the value of our friendship and how lucky we
were to be together.
The second time I saw Fruvous do the song was at the Bayou a few years
ago, I was sitting in the back of the room, (Ellen and Zard were up by the
stage) and from my point of view I could see the whole venue. Many in the
audience put their arms around each other, friends and strangers alike,
and swayed together and sang along, and Jian had an amazed look on his
face, like "Wow, you guys know the words, this is so cool." The song was
just as powerful for me then, as it seemed to convey the way music can
bring a disparate group of people together, if just for a moment, and
generate a very emotional response.
I think the song can be interpreted many ways, the power of friendship,
the heartbreak of losing someone you love, to AIDS, alcoholism, whatever
(especially if it is a young person, and I've always felt this song was
about young friends), perhaps even the confusion, disorientation and
emotional turmoil of being with someone when they die. It seems to me,
that in the case of the Drinking Song, the listeners' individual reactions
to the song are just as important as the meaning to whoever wrote it. The
fact that so many people respond to the song on such an emotional level is
a testament to how powerful the song is.
Not very well expressed, but my two cents, for what it is worth.
chris
Heather Rolph
MSantLucia wrote:
>
> Anyone else get the impression that The Drinking Song has enormous meaning to Jian.
>very emotional. Every time he sings the line "I never drank again" he clutches the
>charm on the necklace he wears and looks very anguished.
I think probably everyone who has seen the band play this song live have probably
noticed the passion dispayed by Jian as well as the other guys but I really think that
it should be left at just that...the song obviously stirs up some emotion but any of us
could not and should not even begin to try and interpret what that could be, where it
comes from or why. If it is something that personal then it is nobodys business unless
Jian himself shares.
Heather
Going Polo
<<I think the song can be interpreted many ways, the power of friendship,
the heartbreak of losing someone you love, to AIDS, alcoholism, whatever
(especially if it is a young person, and I've always felt this song was
about young friends), perhaps even the confusion, disorientation and
emotional turmoil of being with someone when they die. It seems to me,
that in the case of the Drinking Song, the listeners' individual reactions
to the song are just as important as the meaning to whoever wrote it. The
fact that so many people respond to the song on such an emotional level is
a testament to how powerful the song is. >>
I would have to agree with you. The Drinking Song works on many levels and
I'm sure has many interpretations even by the band members themselves. It
certainly strikes a different chord in me.
What I was suggesting is that one of the literal levels of the song is
Hudson's tragedy and the unfortunate loss of lives of thousands of people
before the American government decided to accept AIDS as an epidemic.
"He was a rock,
to the end a solid reminder..."
"And the Band Played On" is right off the title of the book.
Hudson was Irish (Goodnight Irene, even the origin of the music for the
original song, "And the Band Played On") , and mostly regarded as a
chronic alcoholic.
The helicopters whirring are straight out of a passage in the book...
"Told him he couldn't just die
He was a rock..."
There are too many coincidences not to make some connection to Hudson.
It's just that after that I'm not sure what else the Drinking Song is
trying to say. I can link war, extinction and epidemics, but for me it's a
matter of figuring out who or what "character" is telling the story. What
is their relationship to the story they are telling? I have my own ideas
and opinions, but I first want to make sure I'm not going out on a limb.
Why wouldn't Moxy Fruvous use a topic like this as subject matter for a
song? It's right up their alley.
Bill
lank...@dial.pipex.com
Spot on. Take the song as it is, and enjoy it in YOUR own special way.
Even if you don't understand it, it's still a damn fine song.
Kev.
Rich
As with any type of art, music can be interpreted differently by everyone.
That is its beauty, that is its power - that's why its art.
TraugottCM
>>What I was suggesting is that one of the literal levels of the song is
>>Hudson's tragedy and the unfortunate loss of lives of thousands of
people
>>before the American government decided to accept AIDS as an epidemic
I guess the reason I have a problem with this interpretation is that,
although Hudson's death was a tragedy, and the American government's
failure to deal with the AIDS epidemic was a travesty, the song seems to
me far too personal to be about a celebrity.
If you are looking for a "story" in the song, I think it is pretty
straightforward. There are two young men who are very good friends; the
first person, or singer, looks up to his friend. "He was a rock, to the
end a solid reminder. Couldn't deny a friend." (I've always heard the
phrase (s)he's a rock in the context of someone who is incredibly reliable
and steadfast, you can count on them in any situation.) The two friends
spend a lot of time together, including doing some heavy partying. The
singer recounts the good times they had and silly things they did while
partying; listening to records, standing on the roof in the nude, etc.
But he realizes on a certain level that what they are doing is dangerous;
references to "sweet amber poison," "ever notice how drinking's like war,
cup of troops o'er the gums, to the end of our health a campaign 'gainst
myself," and "headed straight for his own armageddon."
One morning, things go too far, "we passed out on the sundeck that
morning" and his friend dies, perhaps of alcohol poisoning or exposure,
and the singer struggles to comprehend what is going on around him ("but I
was so hammered I sputtered and stammered, told him he couldn't just die")
as "the helicopters whir" -- medevac helicopters coming in to bring his
friend to hospital. Along with the trauma of losing a friend so suddenly,
the shock of losing someone who was "a rock," steadfast and solid,
seemingly invincible. A natural response to losing someone that way would
be to swear off alcohol "I never drank again."
As far as the phrase "and the band played on," I had heard that used,
before the book on Hudson came out, to convey the idea that in the midst
of personal chaos or turmoil "the band plays on" or the world keeps going
on, oblivious to the problems or sorrows of individuals.
Just from reading the lyrics, it seems to me that the "story" being told
is fairly straightforward. Certainly, the words and phrases used conjure
evocative images, but I'm not sure that there is any hidden meaning. And
beyond what is evident, I have to agree with Heather in saying that to ask
for more of an explanation would be intruding into an area that is clearly
very personal for the band.
chris
BTW, Bill, it was great to meet you in Philly and finally put a face to
the name. Hope to see you at future concerts, and hopefully Zard and I
will be a little less wiped out and more able to stay awake and socialize
after the show. Three concerts in a row pretty much tapped me out!
Tootles
TraugottCM wrote:
>
> As far as the phrase "and the band played on," I had heard that used,
> before the book on Hudson came out, to convey the idea that in the midst
> of personal chaos or turmoil "the band plays on" or the world keeps going
> on, oblivious to the problems or sorrows of individuals.
I'm not positive (in other words, don't quote me), but I believe that
the phrase, in its common usage, refers to the Titanic sinking. When
the crew discovered that they were going to hit the iceberg, they
decided (since they didn't have enough life boats) to have the band keep
playing to take the minds of the doomed off the imminent disaster. It's
fitting in its use in both The Drinking Song and in the Hudson book.
'later,
jeff gilson.
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
A man couldn't cover himself in dust
by rolling in a paradox, could he?
-H.G. Wells
TraugottCM
On 3 April, Jeff wrote:
>>I'm not positive (in other words, don't quote me), but I believe that
>>the phrase, in its common usage, refers to the Titanic sinking. When
>>the crew discovered that they were going to hit the iceberg, they
>>decided (since they didn't have enough life boats) to have the band keep
>>playing to take the minds of the doomed off the imminent disaster.
Yikes, hadn't heard it in that context before. How very British. :-P
chris
Rodney Elin
On Thu, 03 Apr 1997 17:55:08 -0500, Tootles <f_ra...@hotmail.com>
wrote:
>I'm not positive (in other words, don't quote me), but I believe that
>the phrase, in its common usage, refers to the Titanic sinking. When
>the crew discovered that they were going to hit the iceberg, they
>decided (since they didn't have enough life boats) to have the band keep
>playing to take the minds of the doomed off the imminent disaster. It's
>fitting in its use in both The Drinking Song and in the Hudson book.
>
Contrary to what Bill seems to have asserted, the book "And The Band
Played On" by Randy Shilts is NOT about Rock Hudson. It is about the
AIDS epedemic both in America and the world, and the medical
communities and American governments' response thereto. I think there
might be about three pages talking about the media response to the
death of Rock Hudson in a 600+ page long book.
As a sidenote, I highly recommend the book to EVERYONE. It is
currently in print, and it is amazingly readable despite the heavy
topics and size.
With regards to "The Drinking Song", I would also say that the media
and public response to the AIDS epidemic was turned not with the death
of Rock Hudson, but by the death of child hemopheliac Ryan White and
the Regan Administration's subsequent martyrization of White. Bill
has created a tenuous link between the Shilts book, the emotion in the
song, and a brief, passing reference to media attention, and "The
Drinking Song".
I don't claim to know what "The Drinking Song" is about, if it is, in
fact, about an 'event' at all. But I doubt that it is a specific
reference to Shilts' book. There is absolutely no other context beside
the otherwise popularized title.
--Rodney
(To reply to this message, delete everything after
the ORG in my e-mail address.)
Ross Garmil
Rodney Elin (el...@rff.org.no.spam) wrote:
: On Thu, 03 Apr 1997 17:55:08 -0500, Tootles <f_ra...@hotmail.com>
: wrote:
I think I missed out on some of this discussion, but I gather you are looking
for the origin of the phrase "And the band played on." I don't have the
answer.
However, I do know that there is a pretty old song by that title -- don't know
the year, but we sang it in my high school show choir as part of a
vaudeville-themed show. "Casey would waltz with the strawberry blonde and the
band played on" etc. every line ends with "and the band played on."
If I'm speaking out of context, I apologize.
Melissa (not Ross)
colleen campbell
Ross Garmil (lim...@bu.edu) wrote:
: I think I missed out on some of this discussion, but I gather you are looking
: for the origin of the phrase "And the band played on." I don't have the
: answer.
:
: However, I do know that there is a pretty old song by that title -- don't know
: the year, but we sang it in my high school show choir as part of a
: vaudeville-themed show. "Casey would waltz with the strawberry blonde and the
: band played on" etc. every line ends with "and the band played on."
1895, by John Palmer and Charles Ward. Old enough, I think. :) And yes,
it's a lovely song.
ceecee
--
Colleen Campbell o/~ lost in Fruphoria o/~ cee...@thenet.net
I'm talking about taking one thing, however trivial and mundane, to such
extremes that you illuminate its relationship to all other things, and
then taking it a little bit further--to that point of cosmic impact where
it *becomes* all other things. --Tom Robbins, Even Cowgirls Get the Blues