The Guru Mike Pinder
Tysteel40
are asking Mike deep philosophical questions, as if he has the keys to the
kingdom or the answers of the Universe. Here is one Q&A where some hope Mike
delves a just a little deeper into the cosmos, and touches the face of
God...LOL. Interestingly enough, this is actually one of the least heavy
examples of this:
http://mikepinder.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=301
All I got to say is, with all these people looking to Pinder like he is a
prophet or a sage, GET REAL! I could tap a homeless bum on the shoulder and
ask these kind of questions, and very likely get more truth.
I personally see a lot of phoniness as it relates to the image Pinder attempts
to put out for the fans, and who really is behind the curtain. I find it
laughable that this guy wants to pretend to be a guru of peace, love, and
understanding, yet he allowed Moody Blues rumor spreading and bashing on his
site several weeks ago...just to allow the fires of a controversy to be stoked
and sell more copies of "lost performance". If you want to know more about
that, do a search in the archives of this ng for the topic "mike pinder has no
respect". Or if you are able to, access this link
http://groups.google.com/groups?q=Mike+Pinder&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&selm=2004
0704022643.05570.00001064%40mb-m14.aol.com&rnum=2
a true man of peace, love, and understanding would not stand for any kind of
rumors spread about his former bandmates on his own site, who at one time were
like a family.
Another thing I find interesting is Mike Pinder's phony spirituality I've
read some of Mike's replies to certain folks on the topic of religion, and I
noticed that Pinder embraces a lot of new age ideas and the idea that different
religions lead to God or enlightment. Then he goes on to quote Jesus Christ in
a couple of instances, talking about other aspects of sprituality.
I believe that it was Jesus who said "I am the way the truth, and the life...no
man comes to the father but by me".
You don't come to God through buddah
You don't come to God through wicca
You don't come to God through Islam
You don't come to God through new age spirituality.
And You don't come to God through Mike Pinder
YOU ONLY COME THROUGH JESUS CHRIST...
NO IFS, ANDS, BUTS, OR MAYBE SOS!
I find it laughable that Mike quotes Jesus in a couple of instances on his
board, but then ironically goes on to endorse a lot of beliefs that are
diametrically opposed to Christianity. Obviously Mr Pinder does not really
believe in Jesus Christ, because if he did, he would accept the gospel as the
ultimate truth instead of kissing up to a hodge podge of pagan beliefs.
I call on Mr. Pinder to renounce his pagan beliefs, so he can escape from the
fires and torments of Hell. He is now leading others into the flames, where
they can all make music together with the devil. Mike used to know the true
way of Jesus, but because of being too cerebral and worldly, he has decided
that he should be the conduit to decide what is right and wrong. He wants to
be the man who walks on water, and feed the 5000. Mike once wrote a song,
"lost in a lost world", but at this point in time, Mike is the lost soul that
needs saving.
I truly hope Mike renounces his greed, worldliness, and fake and empty
spirituality, and instead returns to his lord and savior Jesus Christ.
THE SON OF TRUTH
>From: tyst...@aol.com (Tysteel40)
>Date: 8/3/2004 4:21 PM Central Standard Time
>Message-id: <20040803172125...@mb-m25.aol.com>
How's that mailorder divinity degree coming along?
...``I don't know what I got going right now,'' Mark Prior, Cub.
CathyW
> Recently on Mike Pinder's message board, I've increasingly noticed that people
> are asking Mike deep philosophical questions, as if he has the keys to the
> kingdom or the answers of the Universe. Here is one Q&A where some hope Mike
> delves a just a little deeper into the cosmos, and touches the face of
> God...LOL. Interestingly enough, this is actually one of the least heavy
> examples of this:
>
> http://mikepinder.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=301
I read these posts, and they were really more like a joke than
anything to be taken seriously. You are reading something into this
that doesn't exist, IMO.
I see people appreciating his lyrical and musical insight on that
site. I haven't noticed anyone looking to deify the guy. But I might
have missed something.
As far as the religious duplicity is concerned, that's how he
believes. George Harrison was the same way. One of his last songs
had these lyrics: "If you don't know where you're going, any road
will take you there." Not everyone believes there is only one way to
God, but all religions teach theirs is the only way. Eastern
religions have said "there are many paths to God." This is all Pinder
is saying -- whichever door you open to get there is a good one.
Because you have a steadfast faith in Christianity and you thought
Pinder was a devout Christian by some of the lyrics he wrote, no doubt
you are disappointed. He wrote a lot of lyrics that could be
considered non-Christian as well as Christian. And people's
spirituality, regardless of song lyrics or any "celebrity" status, is
very personal to them.
If you are truly a Christian yourself, you could try acting more like
one, and stop sitting in judgment of others. Is that what Jesus would
do? "Judge not lest ye be judged." Remember those words -- they are
some of the most important words Jesus ever said. Very few
"Christians" ever really practice this most important teaching of
Jesus. It ain't just the faith you gotta have, you gotta live the
life too.
Tysteel40
>I read these posts, and they were really more like a joke than
>anything to be taken seriously. You are reading something into this
>that doesn't exist, IMO.
>
As I said in my original post,
" Interestingly enough, this is actually one of the least heavy
examples of this"
My *point* is how inane of a proposition it is to look towards Mike Pinder as
some kind of guru, sage, or prophet is laughable. Quite honestly, a lot of
what he has to say is entertaining, but I digress...
As I've accessed Mike's profile and browsed through a lot of the messages he
has posted, he is definitely encouraging and welcoming this kind of worship,
like if he's some kind of spiritual authority. It's all absurd because Mike
Pinder is full of hot air and gas IMO; he doesn't have the foggiest idea what
he's talking about! He's just another arsehole with an opinion, except he
encourages the idea that he's a guru. I think he's dispensing a lot of snake
oil.
> Not everyone believes there is only one way to
>God, but all religions teach theirs is the only way.
True.
>This is all Pinder
>is saying -- whichever door you open to get there is a good one
First and foremost, for all purposes of this conversation, this contradicts the
teaching of Jesus Christ, and is diametrically opposed to what the Apostles
taught. But the reason why I bring this up about Pinder is due to the fact
that he quotes and uses Jesus Christ's name in a message or two on his board,
but yet ironically he apparently does not (or no longer) believe in Him. It's
hypocritical and pathetic he is using Christ's name for his own gain, that's
the bottom line.
Theoretically, if Mike Pinder really believed in Christ, then he would accept
and believe in the whole Gospel as opposed to picking and choosing what props
up his own belief system. Afterall, it was Christ himself who said that only
he was the true way to God, and it was made clear through other religions or
paths could you not attain this enlightment. Obviously with Pinder, he does
not accept this. With someone like Pinder, who is neither hot or cold, he will
be spewed out, as spoken about people like him in the book of revelation.
As for the naive belief that "whichever door you open to get you there is a
good one", this is really skewed thinking. Not every path is a good or great
one and in fact many are destructive..certainly religions like satanism,
witchcraft, and Islam lead to questionable places.
>Because you have a steadfast faith in Christianity and you thought
>Pinder was a devout Christian by some of the lyrics he wrote, no doubt
Mike Pinder was a christian (or sincerely open to it) at one time, at least
seemingly in the early 70's anyway. I've read some interview segments he did
in the early 70's which led me to that conclusion.
>If you are truly a Christian yourself, you could try acting more like
>one, and stop sitting in judgment of others. Is that what Jesus would
>do? "Judge not lest ye be judged."
You are taking the scripture out of context, and usually that's what a lot of
people like you do to shut up those who want to speak what they perceive to be
truth. In the proper context, that scripture spoke more of hypocrisy..for
example, don't judge adulterers when you commit adultery yourself and etc.
In fact, the bible and christ encourage that we "judge" as long as it's done in
the proper way..there are many places in the New Testament where we are told to
judge and discern good from evil, and Jesus christ said at the end of the book
of Mark that whoever doesn't believe and isn't baptized would be damned. The
Apostle Paul encouraged congregations to kick out phony christians who live in
sin. I guess you would called it "judging" when Jesus chased the money
changers out of the temple, too.
So in my opinion, you are taking the scripture out of context. Of course we
are to judge. Of course we are to call on the carpet what is evil and unjust.
TalionRex
years. I have read where people have broken into their hotel rooms to ask
them the meaning of life.
This has been going since the 1960s. Sounds to me like you have a bone to
pick with Mike Pinder personally.
I've been to his BB and unlike many other celebrity BBs he actually talks
to his members personally. I appreciate that myself.
Jeff Thorazeen
Pinder.
Tysteel40
>People have asked the Moody Blues lots of philosophical questions over the
>years.
Of course, there is absolutely nothing wrong at all with asking someone for
their opinion. But I also believe that if you are hypocrite, as Mike Pinder
appears to be, then you shouldn't be surprised when you are called on the
carpet about it. You shouldn't be surprised when someone points out
inconsistencies between the beliefs you are pontificating on your official
website, and how you actually live your life.
Like I said before, I believe that the image Mike Pinder presents to his fans
is a stark contrast to the man who is really behind the curtain. Mike wants to
be a beacon of peace, love and understanding, and he obviously loves the
adulation and pristine glow of being considered a guru or enlightened person.
But let's look back on the record. For instance, how loving and peaceful is
any lawsuit? As you may or may not know, when Mike Pinder supposedly
"retired" from the band, he filed a lawsuit against the remaining Moodies to
block them from using the name "Moody Blues". He tried his best to stop the
release of Long Distance Voyager.
Let me ask you something, TalionRex. If Mike wanted to only retire from the
band because he was tired of the limelight and touring, why file a lawsuit
against his fellow band members and "brothers" who only wanted to continue
their careers? Why begrudge them that?
where's the love? My guess is that most likely, he wanted to stop them out
of pure ego and greed.
Even to this day, Pinder can't bring himself to publicly apologize for his
actions against the Moody Blues...the very same band whose coattails he's
trying to ride all the way to the bank. They never did a damn thing to him.
At least with Moraz's lawsuit, Patrick had a legitimate grievance.
Obviously, Pinder has no regrets about his own actions, and that's real sad.
He should be sorry and ashamed.
And that case certainly isn't the only inconsistency in what Mike preaches and
how he actually lives. But it's definitely the most glaring and notable
contradiction.
As for what I pointed out about Jesus Christ and how Mike is using His name for
his own gain, let me say that I'm not hear to thump the bible and convert you
to my ideology. I don't even go to church. But whatever I've said about
Christianity is simply what the facts are, as it relates to it's teachings
anyway.
TalionRex
As far a why Mike may have filed his lawsuit I should think he was a
member of the Moody Blues before Justin or John and one of the founding
members. Maybe he had a problem with them using the name Moody Blues
without him getting any royalities. I don't know and appparently neither
do you. But you don't hesitate to speculate and accuse. Lawsuits are a
way of life and of no more importance than a ticket you must fight in
court. Ofcourse they involve more money but that's all.
Now since I've been on this BB I've read a lot of your posts Tysteel40 and
you seem to be the biggest hypocrite I've ever seen. One minute you
denounce a board for banning you and say you don't like it and will never
go back and crap on it post after post. Then we find that you go back
frequently so you can "cut and paste" comments from the board just to
critize.
You appear to take the opposite side of anyones argument just so you an
argue.
And what's with this "I am Ty Steel and you may read this" or whatever
that stupid statement was at the beginning of one of your posts. You talk
about Jesus like you think you are him.
I'm new here so if anyone can show me where I reading these posts wrong
please do so. There a lot of posts and I have a lot to go. Ofcourse I am
reading some other Bands too.
CathyW
> My *point* is how inane of a proposition it is to look towards Mike Pinder as
> some kind of guru, sage, or prophet is laughable. Quite honestly, a lot of
> what he has to say is entertaining, but I digress...
I think when people ask Mike about spirituality, they are only asking
to try find out more about their own. I don't see that he acts like
any kind of authority -- he just answers honestly as best he can, from
his perception.
What anyone finds out as they begin a spiritual search, is that it's
inside them just as strongly as within anyone else. Most people need
some guidance though, and we find many teachers along our way.
You have a history of negative interpretation, bitterness and
prejudice toward all the band members except Moraz. You put Pinder on
the pedestal before as a keyboardist and musician, and now that you
see he's only human, you knock him all the way down to the floor
instead of letting him be human and stand on his own. I don't mean to
be rude, but if you insist on so much negative perception, that is all
you will ever see. Life can be very disappointing, but continued
bitterness is a choice. Whether you believe it or not, you project
your personal disappointment in life onto the band members. I guess
the problem with heroes is that they can fail us too. It's up to us
to be there for ourselves.
> > Not everyone believes there is only one way to
> >God, but all religions teach theirs is the only way.
>
> True.
>
> >This is all Pinder
> >is saying -- whichever door you open to get there is a good one
>
> First and foremost, for all purposes of this conversation, this contradicts the
> teaching of Jesus Christ, and is diametrically opposed to what the Apostles
> taught. But the reason why I bring this up about Pinder is due to the fact
> that he quotes and uses Jesus Christ's name in a message or two on his board,
> but yet ironically he apparently does not (or no longer) believe in Him. It's
> hypocritical and pathetic he is using Christ's name for his own gain, that's
> the bottom line.
There is more than one way to perceive Jesus, like anything else.
Many people will refer to the Christ within more than the conventional
Christian views of Jesus. You just agreed that all religions think
theirs is the only way. It is possible to love Jesus' teachings and
not believe everything the Bible says about needing to be saved.
Pinder's beliefs are a personal as anyone else's. What makes you
think you have a right to criticize him for his beliefs because they
are in opposition to yours?
> Mike Pinder was a christian (or sincerely open to it) at one time, at least
> seemingly in the early 70's anyway. I've read some interview segments he did
> in the early 70's which led me to that conclusion.
But he never came right out and said he bought the whole thing. You
just wanted to believe he did, so you could feel like he believed the
same way as you.
> You are taking the scripture out of context, and usually that's what a lot of
> people like you do to shut up those who want to speak what they perceive to be
> truth.
Sorry, Ty, that is not true. I simply don't believe it's very
Christian at all to knock others for having different belief systems
or for being imperfect. And being overly critical of others is never
going to get anyone anywhere anyway.
In the proper context, that scripture spoke more of hypocrisy..for
> example, don't judge adulterers when you commit adultery yourself and etc.
Okay, but we're all human and all fallible. Even if you would never
commit adultery, it's still not our place to be judgmental of someone
else's mistakes. Yes, we need to exercise good judgment in dealing
with people, for ourown protection. But that's different than getting
up on a high horse to knock someone else down a peg or two. You know
what Jesus meant, and you know what I meant too.
> So in my opinion, you are taking the scripture out of context. Of course we
> are to judge. Of course we are to call on the carpet what is evil and unjust.
"Let he who has not sinned cast the first stone."
CathyW
> Well Churches file lawsuits too. I don't think Jesus is asked first.
>
> As far a why Mike may have filed his lawsuit I should think he was a
> member of the Moody Blues before Justin or John and one of the founding
> members. Maybe he had a problem with them using the name Moody Blues
> without him getting any royalities. I don't know and appparently neither
> do you. But you don't hesitate to speculate and accuse. Lawsuits are a
> way of life and of no more importance than a ticket you must fight in
> court. Ofcourse they involve more money but that's all.
Every one of the Beatles sued each other at one time or another, to
get the contracts voided that they felt were unfair and didn't hold
up.
I think that Mike still had a contract with the Moody Blues that
entitled him to something other than the touring contract he didn't
sign, and his role in the band had never been legally redefined.
People always sue for much more than what they intend or expect to
receive, and the wordings of complaints are almost always harsher and
exaggerated than the reality of the feelings of the person suing.
This is what attorneys do in the practice of law. That Mike's lawsuit
attempted to interrupt the release of LDV and take the Moody Blues'
name was a tactic the attorney probably encouraged to get the
remaining Moody Blues to settle out of court quickly.
It is my understanding that the second lawsuit to get CD and cassette
royalties was done with the band's blessing.
Why some people (not you) want to continue to hold onto bitterness
about Mike's and Tony's lawsuit, when both Justin and John forgave
Mike several years ago escapes me. It's nobody's business, really,
other than the parties involved.
Tysteel40
<snip>
>Why some people (not you) want to continue to hold onto bitterness
>about Mike's and Tony's lawsuit, when both Justin and John forgave
>Mike several years ago escapes me.
What makes you think that Mike sought their forgiveness, and they forgave him?
Don't you remember what Justin reportedly said about Mike Pinder when he was in
Cleveland at the Rock Hall, that he couldn't fathom working with Mike ever
again? He said it was because of how certain things that were said in the
lawsuit just couldn't be unsaid. Doesn't sound like it's water under the
bridge to me.
Tysteel40
>I think when people ask Mike about spirituality, they are only asking
>to try find out more about their own. I don't see that he acts like
>any kind of authority -- he just answers honestly as best he can, from
>his perception.
People certainly have the right or option to ask Pinder a question, and he also
has the right to present his "guru" image to fans. My whole point about this
is, I would really take no issue with Mike Pinder dispensing spiritual or sage
advice if he wasn't such a hypocrite.
Just what he's done recently regarding how he handled the "lost performance"
fiasco was proof of his insincerity. It was a poor attempt to pull wool over
the eyes of the unsuspecting fan. Maybe if he hadn't engaged himself in such a
way, my opinion wouldn't be so negative.
>Most people need
>some guidance though, and we find many teachers along our way.
>
True, but if you come across one who is a hypocrite or phony, then it is not
worth listening to them. One example that comes to mind was the Beatles
infatuation with the Maharashi. When they were in India with this guru, they
heard some talk that he was messing around with one of the girls despite his
preaching of "pureness", and they got out of there in a hurry! And rightly
so. They even did a song about it, called "sexy sadie".
>You have a history of negative interpretation, bitterness and
>prejudice toward all the band members except Moraz.
That is your interpretation; that is not mine. All I've basically said is that
the Moodies have not put out a half decent album since Keys. I don't see them
going anywhere, or doing anything worthwhile, as long as they are stuck in the
mindset of cutting costs even if it hurts quality. For example, cutting costs
by hiring second rate keyboardists like Danillo Madonia, and self producing
their albums. All of those are legit points. If they took what I said to
heart, they'd put on something better for the fans.
>There is more than one way to perceive Jesus, like anything else
Let's get down to brass tacks. The Christian religion pretty much fits the
definition of a cult. It's one of those religions that states "my way or the
highway". It is an all or nothing proposition. If you take what it says at
face value, then that is what it basically says, without the spin.
The only reasons why people believe in religion anyway is because they either
fear death, or wish that this life has some kind of meaning. If I could live
without fear of death, if all of mankind could live without fearing death,
sickness, or fear, there would be no use or need for religion. All I know that
if Jesus christ did not exist, then he is the biggest con man in the history of
the world.
Bozo
> you seem to be the biggest hypocrite I've ever seen. One minute you
> denounce a board for banning you and say you don't like it and will never
> go back and crap on it post after post. Then we find that you go back
> frequently so you can "cut and paste" comments from the board just to
> critize.
I read one of his (Ty's) posts from some months back praising Pinder for
being unselfish by not trying to have his name on songs, etc. Now the guy
does a total flipflop and trashes Pinder for imparting knowledge and
philosophy sought by those visiting his message board.
Tysteel40
> Now the guy
>does a total flipflop and trashes Pinder for imparting knowledge and
>philosophy sought by those visiting his message board.
>
Yes, I did a flip-flop, but that only comes through being flexible enough to
change one's own mind.
Tysteel40
briefly...
Something that I noticed on MikePinder.com when I first arrived there, was
that it seemed to me that certain people who don't have the greatest history of
getting along with Pbaub were being purposely ignored in Mike's Q&A section.
My guess was that Pbaub was telling Mike which fans to ignore and avoid.
When I was participating at the Mike Pinder.com site, it seemed to me that I
was being methodically ignored. In fact, I asked a lot of very good questions
on that site...all of which were ignored. Though, some of the most inane stuff
asked by other folks was getting answered. I even sent Mike a private message
about piano/keyboard technique..and that was ignored as well. After a
while, I just gave up, because I pretty much figured out that Pinder was
purposedly ignoring me and putting distance. I was on the shit list.
What I really didn't like about this was ..... Pinder and his site had no
problem dealing with me when he wanted free advertising! When I did a feature
on my old website on Pinder where I had a brief Q&A, Mike and his website
assisted me. Pinder once sent me a reply to one of my emails, but I guess he
only replies as long as it glorifies him.
So I came to the conclusion that Mike Pinder is just out to use the fans. He
has no loyalty or appreciation...I did a lot of advertising through the web for
that guy, too. Said a lot of nice things about him and supported him since
I've been online. He showed his true colors on his official site, as far as
I'm concerned.
CathyW
> cat...@myself.com (CathyW) writes:
>
> <snip>
> >Why some people (not you) want to continue to hold onto bitterness
> >about Mike's and Tony's lawsuit, when both Justin and John forgave
> >Mike several years ago escapes me.
>
> What makes you think that Mike sought their forgiveness, and they forgave him?
Often people forgive others without being asked to.
>
> Don't you remember what Justin reportedly said about Mike Pinder when he was in
> Cleveland at the Rock Hall, that he couldn't fathom working with Mike ever
> again? He said it was because of how certain things that were said in the
> lawsuit just couldn't be unsaid. Doesn't sound like it's water under the
> bridge to me.
I was there in Cleveland. You're getting only half the story. He
said something similar to this, and then he said that when Mike came
to see them play, only he and John would see Mike. That implied that
it was Graeme and Ray who wouldn't forgive Mike or talk to him again.
And it was Graeme and Ray who were in the original Moody Blues and
likely felt the name belonged to them as much as Mike. What you are
leaving out was Justin saying next how he missed Mike, missed his
songs the most, and "would like nothing better than to hold him in his
arms." The latter are Justin's exact words. Under the bridge is dry,
except for Graeme's water.
Wizard
Amazing how many of his former projects have fallen by the wayside the past
several years.
He should be mindful of the fact he is a "former" Moody Blue. However, that
said, it is his site and his forum and his moderators. Derive from that what
you will.
LOL
Skyvoice
"Tysteel40" <tyst...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20040810084619...@mb-m12.aol.com...
Wizard
It is a fact that The Moody Blues embarked on a voyage creating the Core7
AFTER the J's came to the band. Up until that time they had only one
commercial success and were well on the way to obscurity since they seemed
resigned to playing mediocre tunes. I'm sure this played a large part in
helping Denny Laine and Clint Warwick remove themselves for greener
pastures. I am not saying it was solely the J's that contributed to this new
found spirit... I think it was more synergistic. A new energy and a new
vision came to pass and it translated very well.
While due credit must be given Mike Pinder for his truly wonderful
contributions to The Moody Blues, I think it had more to do with the new
energy that came to the band and he saw an opportunity to move ahead with
it. The synergies at work provided a great deal of great music... and lest
we forget, Tony Clarke weaving his magic into the mix and helping to come up
with the final product. Of course, there are just as many ways to view the
history of The Moody Blues as there are people viewing that history.
The willingness for them all to experiment with a new sound was
groundbreaking and created a path for other bands to follow. The rest, as
they so aptly state, is history.
"Tysteel40" <tyst...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20040810084619...@mb-m12.aol.com...
azure spirit
Sorry...I couldn't resist!
"Tysteel40" <tyst...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20040810082742...@mb-m12.aol.com...
azure spirit
reread the transcripts of the HoF gig. Even more than the exact words, there
was a rather melancholy (sorry, that was the only word I could think of to
truly fit) tone in his voice as he talked about this issue. I was actually
surprised that he chose to discuss it then.
"CathyW" <cat...@myself.com> wrote in message
news:ac3f1db.04081...@posting.google.com...
gibson girl
> Ahhh...it sounds like the "Kerry Syndrome"!
>
> Sorry...I couldn't resist!
I was thinking the same thing! LOL