Commentary on Moraz interview
Tysteel40
in particular his comments about the Moodies, it just leaves me with some
questions.
When the interview came out, it came out 1 month before the Moodies were to
embark on their 1991 tour in Europe. You can check the dates from the 1991
summer tour here:
http://www.toadmail.com/~notten/40_S91Euro.htm
What I find interesting about all of this is... I see a alot of irony here as
it relates to why Moraz filed a lawsuit against them, especially when he gives
the impression that it was *his* decision to leave the band? Afterall, he
said in that interview that the nostalgic framework of the Moodies was too
confining, and that he wanted to try other things.
Also from what I understand, Moraz filed the lawsuit against the Moodies
because they fired him from the group, and thus was not able to participate on
the 1991 tour and subsequent tours. This is the reason for his lawyer's
wrangling about whether or not he was technically a band member, so as to
determine the amount the Moodies would have to pay up if they lost. But
after reading the tone of Moraz's comments in the interview, what did he expect
for them to do!? They certainly weren't going to blow him any kisses! Did
he really think they'd be ecstatic about bringing him on tour, or did he really
think that they would have to take it and smile, because they had signed a
contract with him?
Like I said, this leaves me pondering a lot of different questions and
scenarios. So now I'm wondering, when Moraz did the interview, was he just
trying to save face by stating that he was leaving the band, when in fact they
had already sacked him? Did they terminate their contract with Patrick before
this interview came out, or did they pull the plug after what they found out
what he said? My guess is that they had terminated their contract with him
before he did this interview, but I could be wrong.
Looking back on his comments, it does look like he was frustrated with the
situation, and that is very understandable! Maybe he thought that by
criticizing them or threatening to leave in such a public way, that the Moodies
would change how they did their business with him?
I do think it is unfortunate that the Moody Blues did not allow Patrick more
wiggle room to write his own songs for the group, or give him credit for
helping to arrange their own stuff. It's a shame that they didn't allow Moraz
more creative freedom or a bigger role within the confines of the group, such
as producing and etc. Obviously, the Moodies are a much lesser band these days
without a talented keyboard player like Moraz.
Sharon broj neki
>without a talented keyboard player like Moraz.
That's one persons' opinion of course. While I haven't always been as avid a
follower of the Moodies until this year, I do remember what I've seen and heard
in the past and Patrick Moraz added nothing to them in my opinion. As for
keyboardists, I found Bias to be far superior not only in his talent but in his
manner.
Thanks for sharing these excerpts. It only reinforces my belief that Patrick
was a jaded guy that was only in it for himself and what rewards he could
garner rather than the final outcome and what was delivered to the fans of the
Moody Blues. In my opinion he always jumped out in performances rather than
blending in as part of the group.
I'll stop now because my parents raised me to the old addage of "if you can't
say something nice about someone don't say anything" and I have nothing nice to
say about Patrick Moraz as an entertainer.
Sharon
Singformoi
But you don't have to reply to this. LOL!
Sue
Tysteel40
>That's one persons' opinion of course. While I haven't always been as avid a
>follower of the Moodies until this year, I do remember what I've seen and
>heard
>in the past and Patrick Moraz added nothing to them in my opinion.
For starters, even Justin Hayward of the Moody Blues disagrees with you. Ever
see the "Legend of a band" DVD where Justin admits that Patrick brought an
energy and power to the band that was just what they needed? Hayward has
acknowledged Moraz in interviews for the breakthrough that was Long Distance
Voyager.
>As for
>keyboardists, I found Bias to be far superior not only in his talent but in
>his
>manner.
Bias Boshell, Paul Bliss, and others like them are not even in the same league
or tier as Patrick Moraz. That is not opinion; that is fact!
>
>Thanks for sharing these excerpts. It only reinforces my belief that Patrick
>was a jaded guy that was only in it for himself and what rewards he could
>garner
That's what playing in a band is all about, Sharon. It's about getting
rewards. Hayward and Lodge understand that very well.
>rather than the final outcome and what was delivered to the fans of
>the
>Moody Blues.
Not necessarily true. As Moraz himself admitted,the Moodies were no longer a
rewarding gig. Like he said in that interview, the Moodies had become
stagnant, and his frustration was pretty evident. If the Moodies would've
been more open to what Moraz had to say, the fans would've gotten an even
better experience.
Even what Moraz said back in '91 rings true even to this day. Since the
departure of Moraz, the band has only released one studio album of all original
material, and it didn't chart well. "December" wasn't received any better.
If that isn't stagnant, then what is?
CatGOD29
>Ever see the "Legend of a band" DVD where Justin admits that Patrick brought
an
>energy and power to the band that was just what they needed? Hayward has
>acknowledged Moraz in interviews for the breakthrough that was Long Distance
>Voyager.
In a recent issue of Goldmine, there was a story on the Moody Blues which
discussed their success with different line-ups. Justin Hayward (the only
member interviewed) acknowledged Moraz as a brilliant musician but said on the
other hand, that Moraz wasn't a team player and that compounded other problems
they were having during the 80s. Sort of an "every man for himself" phase. He
also commented on "The Present" as not being a very good album and having some
truly awful stuff (but he didn't mention which songs he thought were awful).
Don't know how long ago the story was planned and written or when the
interview took place but Hayward mentioned visiting with Mike Pinder about five
years prior and even though he said they had more or less drifted apart, any
comments he had on Pinder were mostly positive.
>Bias Boshell, Paul Bliss, and others like them are not even in the same
>league
>or tier as Patrick Moraz. That is not opinion; that is fact!
One man's *bias*ed fact is another man's *bias*ed opinion. I've heard some of
Moraz's music on the satellite system I have. Not bad - very pretty in fact but
it was all synthesizer. What I heard (and I can't recall the titles) would've
sounded many times better with real strings, horns and woodwinds than with the
synths.
Within the framework of the Moody Blues, Boshell, Bliss and other hired hands
are not paid to take the spotlight themselves. That makes it hard for them to
do anything on keyboards and synthesizers which would steal the thunder from
the ones the fans have come to see.
>That's what playing in a band is all about, Sharon. It's about getting
>rewards. Hayward and Lodge understand that very well.
Moraz understood his position within the band quite well. Where I live, when
the Moodies first played here with Moraz on board in the 80s, Moraz was
interviewed by the local paper - he acknowledged at the time that he was
nothing more than a hired hand who hoped his status would change to that of a
full fledged member.
He was also interviewed in 1988 when "Sur La Mer" was released. He complained
about a couple of things: the first was the lack of any compositions by Ray
Thomas, which he felt was wrong. He indicated that either Ray wasn't asked or
allowed to contribute because they were trying to make SLM as commercial as
possible.
The other was that he was still a hired hand. Having spent the better part of
the decade as a hired hand for the Moody Blues, he had to have known by that
time that status was never going to change - the offer was never going to be
made for him.
>As Moraz himself admitted,the Moodies were no longer a rewarding gig.
Not true here either; if the situation was as stagnant and frustrating as he
claimed, why would he even want to remain? You don't stay where you're not
wanted nor do you stay when you've worn out your welcome.
If, as Hayward claims, Moraz was never a team player, that certainly harmed
his chances of remaining with the Moody Blues. It's also possible that
interviews he gave the press like the one mentioned above created additional
problems.
My own opinion is that Moraz was quite capable of voicing his opinion but it
wasn't wanted and as a result, he wore out his welcome.
>Even what Moraz said back in '91 rings true even to this day. Since the
>departure of Moraz, the band has only released one studio album of all
>original
>material, and it didn't chart well.
I believe that it has less to do with the material and more with the lack of
promotion from Universal. And the lack of promotion could be due to several
reasons: Universal may only be interested in marketing to younger people and as
a result, see the Moodies as being too old and not marketable. It could also be
Universal cross-collateralized their albums: one album stiffs but the next
one's a success but before the Moodies would see any royalties, any previous
unpaid expenses would be deducted from royalties owed on the successful album.
And Universal will cross-collateralize the albums on their artists, even if
an artist and their management objects. Universal tried that with the Bee Gees,
they and their management raised an objection, it was taken out but they later
discovered it was added back in. Unfortunately for Universal, there apparenly
was a clause in the Gibb brothers's contracts stipulating any deception on the
part of the label was grounds for terminating the contracts. It's not every day
you hear about the company being fired but it happened.
>"December" wasn't received any better.
>If that isn't stagnant, then what is?
>
Well, let's see, because it was and is a Christmas album, that limits the
time it's going to be on the shelf for purchase. Universal did another smash up
job of next to no promotion and that affects how many people knew about the
album. The album should be back on the shelves in late September but usually
radio stations won't play any Christmas songs until the day after Thanksgiving.
My suggestion would be to hire an independent distributor and go the TV route
and also arrange airplay on the satellite radio services. The next studio
album, if and when there is one, should also include a TV tie-in, an internet
tie-in and using Prince's neat little trick, giving the CD to people who buy
concert tickets to their shows. The Moodies have a pretty strong core group of
fans but it's reaching the casual fans, the ones who buy an album for one or
two songs that make or break an album.
Sharon broj neki
possible when it comes to Patrick Moraz. You have your opinion and and I have
mine and never the twain shall meet.
I expressed my opinions in what I considered a rather polite manner. I didn't
tell you that you were wrong and stated that what I wrote were my opinions.
You can say whatever you want to but it'll never change my opinion of Patrick
Moraz and his lack of adding anything to my Moody Blues experience, so please
don't try to quote me scripture and verse on why you're right and I'm wrong. A
ctually I don't know why I wasted my time replying to you in the first place.
I've read here enough to know that it would be a waste of time. I think I'll
just add you to my killfile and be done with it. It'll certainly save me a lot
of reading time. Best of luck to you, Ty.
Plonk.
Sharon
Tysteel40
> In a recent issue of Goldmine, there was a story on the Moody Blues which
>discussed their success with different line-ups. Justin Hayward (the only
>member interviewed) acknowledged Moraz as a brilliant musician but said on
>the
>other hand, that Moraz wasn't a team player and that compounded other
>problems
>they were having during the 80s.
> Sort of an "every man for himself" phase. He
>also commented on "The Present" as not being a very good album and having
>some
>truly awful stuff
I think Justin is still reeling over the fact that this album wasn't
particularly received well.. My guess is that the MB were expecting that The
Present would be another huge smash hit along the lines of Long Distance
Voyager. So they ended up sinking a lot of time, money and effort into the
recording of this album, thinking it would be another #1. But they were in
for a rude awakening when it had a less than stellar debut on billboard.
. > (but he didn't mention which songs he thought were awful).
The Present is somewhat of an anamoly in the sense that Lodge's songs are much
stronger than Hayward's. On The Present, Lodge's star shines the brightest,
and maybe Justin resents that.
> Don't know how long ago the story was planned and written or when the
>interview took place but Hayward mentioned visiting with Mike Pinder about
>five
>years prior and even though he said they had more or less drifted apart, any
>comments he had on Pinder were mostly positive.
I've read Justin's comments about that meeting in other interviews, and it
seems that his feelings on meeting Pinder were rather ambivalent. Hayward
tried to put a positive spin on a lot of it, but underneath there seemed to be
disappointment. My guess is that Justin had hoped that after all those years
Pinder would be a man and finally apologize for filing frivilous lawsuits and
injunctions against the Moody Blues in the early 80's, but I guess Pinder is
self righteous and has no regret.
>
>>Bias Boshell, Paul Bliss, and others like them are not even in the same
>>league
>>or tier as Patrick Moraz. That is not opinion; that is fact!
>
> One man's *bias*ed fact is another man's *bias*ed opinion. I've heard some
>of
>Moraz's music on the satellite system I have. Not bad - very pretty in fact
>but
>it was all synthesizer. What I heard (and I can't recall the titles) would've
>sounded many times better with real strings, horns and woodwinds than with
>the
>synths.
> Within the framework of the Moody Blues, Boshell, Bliss and other hired
>hands
>are not paid to take the spotlight themselves.
The reason why Bias and Bliss aren't in the same league or tier as Moraz is
very simple....just look and compare their accomplishments and accolades.
If you've ever been to Moraz's website, you can see his "resume" online, which
shows all the accolades, accomplishments, awards, and kudos he's garnered over
the years. He's composed music for various films and scores, has been voted
one of the best rock keyboardists and pianists by his peers, and he's the only
musician to have worked with both Yes and the Moody Blues. Bias and Bliss and
Danillo Madonia are certainly not as distinguished or skilled, and are second
tier when constrasted to what Moraz can do. Not opinion...fact!
>That makes it hard for them to
>do anything on keyboards and synthesizers which would steal the thunder from
>the ones the fans have come to see.
Moraz, just like Pinder, was an integral part of the Moody Blues sound. The
mellotron/synthesizers were often the lead instrument. They are not stealing
thunder...they are the thunder.
<snip>
> He was also interviewed in 1988 when "Sur La Mer" was released. He
>complained
>about a couple of things: the first was the lack of any compositions by Ray
>Thomas, which he felt was wrong. He indicated that either Ray wasn't asked or
>allowed to contribute because they were trying to make SLM as commercial as
>possible.
That's a very legitimate point. It was also my theory that both Ray and Graeme
were likely discouraged from participating on TOSOL or Sur La Mer because the
songs of the J's were more commericial. When Ray retired, Justin tried to
put a spin on it and declared that he had wanted more songs from Ray, but all
the evidence seems to point to the contrary.
> The other was that he was still a hired hand. Having spent the better part
>of
>the decade as a hired hand for the Moody Blues, he had to have known by that
>time that status was never going to change - the offer was never going to be
>made for him.
According to what was said in the Court tv lawsuit by the MB's lawyers, such as
offer was in fact made to him, in 1983. He turned it down for contract pay.
Maybe he was frustrated that he couldn't have his way, as far as writing his
own songs to be included on the MB albums, and that is behind his
disappointment and frustration.
>
>>As Moraz himself admitted,the Moodies were no longer a rewarding gig.
>
> Not true here either; if the situation was as stagnant and frustrating as
>he
>claimed, why would he even want to remain?
for the money. I'm sure they paid him good. While Moraz made a good pay
day, everything was designed to reflect back on Justin & John. Guess he
thought it was a convenient trade-off at the time.
Cath
(Tysteel40) writes:
>Also from what I understand, Moraz filed the lawsuit against the Moodies
>because they fired him from the group, and thus was not able to participate
>on
>the 1991 tour and subsequent tours.
I heard that he was fired at the last minute, right before the tour. He bought
clothes, had his equipment ready, was already to go, and he was told he wasn't
touring with the band. This is just what I heard, and I can't confirm it. I
don't know about the rest of it, exactly when he was told he was fired in
regards to the interview.
Cath
catg...@aol.comnojunk (CatGOD29) writes:
>In a recent issue of Goldmine, there was a story on the Moody Blues which
>discussed their success with different line-ups. Justin Hayward (the only
>member interviewed) acknowledged Moraz as a brilliant musician but said on
>the
>other hand, that Moraz wasn't a team player
That could just be Justin's definition of a team player.
> He
>also commented on "The Present" as not being a very good album and having
>some
>truly awful stuff (but he didn't mention which songs he thought were awful).
I know a lot of fans who like THE PRESENT a lot more than the Moodies(or is
it just Justin? I have the H&H issue on that album, but I don't know where it
is right now, and I forgot what it said).
> I've heard some
>of
>Moraz's music on the satellite system I have. Not bad - very pretty in fact
>but
>it was all synthesizer. What I heard (and I can't recall the titles) would've
>sounded many times better with real strings, horns and woodwinds than with
>the
>synths.
I heard him live on the piano and I really liked what I heard.
>That makes it hard for them to
>do anything on keyboards and synthesizers which would steal the thunder from
>the ones the fans have come to see.
I think Bias was great and really appreciated on LOAM in concert. He was the
second person the audience would focus on, of course, Ray being the first.
> Moraz understood his position within the band quite well. Where I live,
>when
>the Moodies first played here with Moraz on board in the 80s, Moraz was
>interviewed by the local paper - he acknowledged at the time that he was
>nothing more than a hired hand who hoped his status would change to that of a
>full fledged member.
> He was also interviewed in 1988 when "Sur La Mer" was released. He
>complained
>about a couple of things: the first was the lack of any compositions by Ray
>Thomas, which he felt was wrong. He indicated that either Ray wasn't asked or
>allowed to contribute because they were trying to make SLM as commercial as
>possible.
> The other was that he was still a hired hand. Having spent the better part
>of
>the decade as a hired hand for the Moody Blues, he had to have known by that
>time that status was never going to change - the offer was never going to be
>made for him.
I wish I could see those interviews. Before he sued, I saw many interviews
where the band talked about him as though he were the newest member of the
band.
> Not true here either; if the situation was as stagnant and frustrating as
>he
>claimed, why would he even want to remain? You don't stay where you're not
>wanted nor do you stay when you've worn out your welcome.
A lot of band members argue and differ on things but stay with a band hoping
things will change, even after many years. He must have had reasons he wanted
to stay.
> If, as Hayward claims, Moraz was never a team player,
Maybe Justin wanted things exactly the same at each concert, and when Patrick
played a song a different way, that was Justin's definition of not being a team
player. After Patrick left, the concerts year after year seemed to have the
songs performed exactly the same way(even though Graeme said they changed them,
I and lot of other fans I talked to didn't hear any difference) with the
exception of when they used an orchestra. A lot of music artists change the way
they perform a song in concert from one time to the next.
> Well, let's see, because it was and is a Christmas album, that limits the
>time it's going to be on the shelf for purchase.
Some Christmas albums do quite well.
> Universal did another smash
>up
>job of next to no promotion and that affects how many people knew about the
>album.
I wonder why if Universal isn't interested in promoting them, and they keep
complaining about the lack of promotion, why they couldn't come to an agreement
even if the contract calls for so many albums. Universal mustn't think they are
going to sell well if they won't promote them.
> The next studio
>album, if and when there is one, should also include a TV tie-in, an internet
>tie-in and using Prince's neat little trick, giving the CD to people who buy
>concert tickets to their shows.
I think TV ads would do the most good. I don't think a free cd is enough to
get people to attend the concerts. The concert goers would be the ones who
would buy the cd to begin with, if they are going to spend the money to attend
a concert, sometimes adding in airline and hotel expenses. I think buying the
cd first, with a good price the week it's released, and a lot of tv ads, would
have the people who decide to buy the cd maybe like it enough to attend a
concert. A cd is a lot cheaper than a concert.
> The Moodies have a pretty strong core group
>of
>fans
A strong, but not a big group. It's enough to have them tour constantly, but
they aren't even filling the same size venues they did in past years.
>but it's reaching the casual fans, the ones who buy an album for one or
>two songs that make or break an album.
I think it's the other way around. The hard core fans will buy anything the
Moodies put out, but the casual fan will want to maybe hear samples to see if
the cd is worth buying, they won't be the ones who will purchase a cd if they
think only one or two songs on it are good. JMO.
Cath
Jeff Thorazeen
Singformoi
read the filtered posts. I reply to him, but shouldn't bother.
We all know he's right and anything we think and say is wrong, right?
I agree with you regarding Moraz, and I don't care what Justin or anyone else
says or thinks about it.
I don't agree with Justin's opinion on "The Present," either. His opinion
doesn't make mine wrong.
Just like anyone else, he has his tastes. Fans have theirs.
Sue
Peter V
told to play in concerts. You would think that a contracted musician who was
doing this wouldn't have survived some 10 years in the group. I never had the
pleasure of seeing the band with Pinder but I noticed very little if any change
in arrangements after Moraz departed. I don't remember hearing all this
anti-Moraz chatter amongst the fans until the infamous lawsuit. Those "loyal"
to the band will bash Moraz talent, personality and even his hairstyle just to
be more in line what they think the MB's want them to be. We hear two sides of
the story but we weren't there. Pinder vs the MB's, Moraz vs the MB's, the
absence of Ray Thomas and Grame Edge songs on a few albums. There seems to be
very conflicting stories on all of these issues.
Peter
CatGOD29
>>other hand, that Moraz wasn't a team player
>
> That could just be Justin's definition of a team player.
True although my take on it is if the band was having problems when Moraz
joined and tried to make his opinions known, I'm not so sure that would've been
an appropriate thing for him to do. And considering he was a contracted player
and not an actual member, voicing an opinion would've been the wrong thing to
do.
> I know a lot of fans who like THE PRESENT a lot more than the Moodies(or is
>it just Justin? I have the H&H issue on that album, but I don't know where it
>is right now, and I forgot what it said).
Count me as a fan who likes "The Present"; the album is a pretty solid one in
my book. I'm guessing Justin didn't like it because he only had three songs
credited to him alone and one additional song cowritten with John. Maybe he
felt that because he, along with John, were the commericial elements within the
Moody Blues, that they should've written all of the songs.
And essentially, from "The Other Side of Life" on, that's pretty much what
they did do. Ray and Graeme appeared to be lucky if they were allowed to
contribute a track.
While discussing the album "The Other Side of Life," Justin spoke about how
Tony Visconti brought some discipline and speed to the proceedings and that in
the past, for example, they would spend up to nine weeks perfecting a drum
track on a single song.
Now, I'm with him on that one - it doesn't make sense to spend that much time
but here again, there's no mention of how much time was spent overdubbing the
other instruments. It could be they spent as much time overdubbing a guitar or
a bass but didn't see that as a big deal.
> I heard him live on the piano and I really liked what I heard.
See, another point I was trying to make here is that Moraz may have felt that
his music fit the music made by the Moody Blues. I've always felt that the
Moody Blues were quite a big influence on many new age musicians.
And while his music may have fit, he had to remember he was competing against
four other songwriters within the group and two in particular who supplied most
of the songs. As a musician working for the Moody Blues, he should've known his
chances of getting one of his songs recorded wasn't very good. His best chances
for getting his music heard was through the solo projects he's done and
continues to do.
>I think Bias was great and really appreciated on LOAM in concert. He was the
>second person the audience would focus on, of course, Ray being the first.
>
Last time they appeared here, I missed the show because of work. It was about
the time of Ray's departure and I wondered how his songs would be treated, if
at all. Sometimes, I think it's a mistake for an act to take on the songs of a
former member but then again, some acts are quite capable of delivering a good
performance of someone else's song.
> I wish I could see those interviews. Before he sued, I saw many interviews
>where the band talked about him as though he were the newest member of the
>band.
I used to have them but I don't know what's happened to them. Moraz was very
hopeful at the time of the first interview that he would be a regular member of
the band instead of a contracted player and even during the second interview,
he still had his fingers crossed.
My guess is their management saw it more to their benefit to maintain his
status as a contracted player. On the positive side, he was paid regardless of
whether an album sold or stiffed and he didn't have to worry about paying back
expenses from the royalties because they overspent their budget, On the
negative side, as a contracted player, that meant his services could be
terminated at any time and even though his photo appeared on the albums,
implying he was a member, he was never a true member.
>A lot of band members argue and differ on things but stay with a band hoping
>things will change, even after many years. He must have had reasons he wanted
>to stay.
I think it had to be the money they paid him. It's certainly possible they
encouraged him to voice an opinion but perhaps he didn't know when to stop or
keep going. One of my former coworkers was like that: much to the relief of
everyone, she had herself talked into a job promotion that would've gotten her
out of everyone's collective hair (she wasn't well liked). She was saying all
the right things to the person to make him want to offer her a job and then,
she self destructed. She said too much, kept going and you could see this
person who was going to hire her go from excited to lose total interest. And
she couldn't blame anyone but herself.
>Maybe Justin wanted things exactly the same at each concert, and when Patrick
>played a song a different way, that was Justin's definition of not being a
>team
>player.
That may be the case; I think a lot of bands tire of coming up with doing
their songs a different way each time. Course, if Patrick played the song a
different way each time, the others could've taken that as "Hey! He's trying
to upstage us." And again, because he was a hired hand, that might have been
the wrong thing to do.
> Some Christmas albums do quite well.
Some do well because they're available year after year after year. Most don't
hit the gold or platinum level until after several years have passed - the
exception to this is when a performer or band is super hot. Then it's possible
to reach that level within a short time.
>I wonder why if Universal isn't interested in promoting them, and they keep
>complaining about the lack of promotion, why they couldn't come to an
>agreement
>even if the contract calls for so many albums. Universal mustn't think they
>are
>going to sell well if they won't promote them.
If they wanted to end their association with Universal, it may be they would
have to pay for all the undelivered albums - if they don't have something in
their contracts which allows them to terminate the agreements due to deceptive
practices on the part of the record company.
> I think TV ads would do the most good. I don't think a free cd is enough to
>get people to attend the concerts. The concert goers would be the ones who
>would buy the cd to begin with, if they are going to spend the money to
>attend
>a concert, sometimes adding in airline and hotel expenses. I think buying the
>cd first, with a good price the week it's released, and a lot of tv ads,
>would
>have the people who decide to buy the cd maybe like it enough to attend a
>concert. A cd is a lot cheaper than a concert.
>
True but even with TV, you're spending quite a bit of money for a commercial
which may run anywhere from thirty seconds to two minutes and TV stations
charge by the second. So, a TV ad has to be exciting enough to get the viewers
to call the number and buy the album.
But, when in the past you've had artists like Slim Whitman and Richard
Clayderman selling millions of albums, there shouldn't be any reason why the
Moody Blues couldn't sell a million copies or more via TV.
I'd also go with another alternative on TV: produce a thirty minute or one
hour infomercial, have someone interview the guys and play songs from the
album. And since the whole thing is a commercial anyway, the phone number could
be displayed all during the show.
>> The Moodies have a pretty strong core group
>>of
>>fans
>
> A strong, but not a big group. It's enough to have them tour constantly, but
>they aren't even filling the same size venues they did in past years.
>
Many formerly big artists from the 60s and 70s are the same way. In a sense,
it's because they're old but it's not because they're old. It's because we've
allowed certain individuals within our society to decide when an act is no
longer valid and because we stopped buying as we grew older or we became
interested in other acts. We could change a lot of the practices if everyone
decided to bring about the change. Things don't work if the support isn't
there.
>>but it's reaching the casual fans, the ones who buy an album for one or
>>two songs that make or break an album.
>
> I think it's the other way around. The hard core fans will buy anything the
>Moodies put out, but the casual fan will want to maybe hear samples to see if
>the cd is worth buying, they won't be the ones who will purchase a cd if they
>think only one or two songs on it are good. JMO.
Thought that was my point. The hard core group will buy anything but you
still have to reach the potential casual fans. Casual fans may only like one or
two songs but the record labels have pretty much discontinued releasing singles
(within the US anyway), so if's it only two songs they want or like, if it's
really a must have, they will have to give in and shell out the bucks. I've
seen a lot of casual fans go in and buy albums for just one song; most of them
didn't really care as to whether the song was available as a single - they're
pretty much the reason why a lot of labels don't issue singles.
Tysteel40
intriguing.
I think his tone towards Patrick was very negative. Justin still has an axe to
grind obviously. Basically, he was trying to use Moraz for a scapegoat, and
likely he is exaggerating what really took place.
I'm sure it really chews Justin up that Moraz is not crying and groveling in
interviews about returning to the Moody Blues. Whenever asked about them, he
does not indicate that he wants to work with them ever again.
I just get the feeling that Justin is very egocentric and often dreams of
sitting by the phone, waiting and hoping for the day that Patrick comes crying
and begging to come back. Justin wants the satisfaction of digging his spurs
into him. But that day isn't going to happen.
azure spirit
back to my many years of referee-ing on the gradeschool playgrounds. Some
things never change and the same arguments pop up over and over again.
Ty,
I would not begin to pretend that I know what Justin does with his time, but
I would bet money on the fact that it isn't sitting by the phone waiting for
a phonecall from Patrick.
"Tysteel40" <tyst...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20040809000341...@mb-m20.aol.com...
Tysteel40
>Ty,
>
>I would not begin to pretend that I know what Justin does with his time, but
>I would bet money on the fact that it isn't sitting by the phone waiting for
>a phonecall from Patrick.
Have you actually read the Goldmine interview? Like I think I already said,
it looks like Justin has an axe to grind, especially in the way he brings up
Patrick in a largely negative light. The kind of comments stating that Patrick
is not a "team player" and that he "compounds problems" within the group
certainly wouldn't encourage anyone who reads that to want to work with Patrick
Moraz. I think it's pretty obvious that Justin wants to hurt Moraz's career in
any way he can.
My opinion, and my opinion only, is that the reason why Justin Hayward is going
negative and is so resentful is because he knows that the band will never have
another hit album without Moraz. He knows that Moraz was one of the best
things that ever happened to him, but it was Justin who let it all slip away by
being unreasonable and not wanting to work with Patrick's issues.
CatGOD29
it looks like Justin has an axe to grind, especially in the way he brings up
>Patrick in a largely negative light.
I don't think it was that negative; Patrick was mentioned by name only once
in the article and other than saying he was a brilliant player but wasn't a
team player and that he compounded the problems the band was having...that's
not saying very much at all. He could've cited a few instances where the band
was having problems and what Patrick did to make the situation worse.
He didn't do that and if Patrick was to respond to the comment, it would be
nothing more than a he said/he said type of situation unless John, Graeme and
Ray weighed in with their thoughts on the matter.
Btw, did John, Graeme or Ray ever make any comments over Patrick's dismissal
and when he sued them over his termination?
>The kind of comments stating that Patrick
>is not a "team player" and that he "compounds problems" within the group
>certainly wouldn't encourage anyone who reads that to want to work with
>Patrick
>Moraz. I think it's pretty obvious that Justin wants to hurt Moraz's career
>in
>any way he can.
>
I don't think such comments will discourage anyone...I can't see Patrick ever
going back and working as a hired hand for someone else. Whatever he got from
the experience, I'm sure it's something he doesn't want to repeat.
>My opinion, and my opinion only, is that the reason why Justin Hayward is
>going
>negative and is so resentful is because he knows that the band will never
>have
>another hit album without Moraz. He knows that Moraz was one of the best
>things that ever happened to him, but it was Justin who let it all slip away
>by
>being unreasonable and not wanting to work with Patrick's issues.
>
The lack of promotion by the record company has more to do with Justin (and
company) not having another hit album than the lack of Patrick Moraz on
keyboards and synths. Anyone that the Moodies bring in on keyboards is never
going to be a full time member. Patrick was never anything more than a
contracted player and maybe that was the problem from the start.
>
>
>
>
azure spirit
posted....thanks...) and I have not had the opportunity to talk to either
Patrick or Justin. It seems to me that perhaps both parties have come to the
understanding that things could not continue as they were for a variety of
reasons. Although the time when Patrick was part of the MBs is not my
personal favorite, he did serve a purpose to rejuvenate them. I think is was
a "music/art makes strange bedfellows" type situation. (Thinking back to
high school biology...is this what is called a symbiotic relationship??) It
seemed to work to a mutual advantage for a time....probably longer that
expected. Neither party could remain comfortable with the status quo as it
was then and a number of circumstances led to hard feelings ...to say the
least! Obviously, both sides wanted to put their own spin on things and come
out in the best light. I don't pretend to know even the smallest portions of
this situation...only what I have heard from various people over the last
couple years....SO...this is JMO based on what I know...which is admittedly
very little!!
azure spirit
"Tysteel40" <tyst...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20040809090028...@mb-m29.aol.com...
Tysteel40
> I don't think it was that negative;
It was largely negative. I also thought that the way Justin referred to
Patrick was in a condescending, disrespectful, and trivial manner in that
statement to Goldmine, and the following is a pretty close rendering as to what
Justin said in the interview about Moraz (sorry, don't have it in front of me
to copy word for word..so let me paraphrase)
"We had some guy named Patrick Moraz who was a brilliant musician but was not a
team player.... blah, blah, blah, he compounded problems within the group where
it was "everyone for themselves"..blah, blah, blah"
Why didn't Justin just keep it positive? Why take the dig? The only reason
is that he doesn't want to let it go. ..the man is resentful. If Justin
were really happy with where the band is today as far as the music it puts out,
then he wouldn't be taking these kind of shots.
Also, wonder what was meant when Justin lamented about "every man for himself"
being a problem? The funny thing was, he said he didn't feel the band got back
on the right track till they recorded "TOSOL". This is even more intriguing,
because how did the band get back on the right track when only Justin & John
were writing all the songs, with the sole exception of "the spirit"?
Now, this has me wondering, Justin's statement lamenting about "every man for
himself" seems to indicate that he didn't like how Grame, Ray and Patrick were
wanting to record their own songs on the Moody Blues albums....in other words,
he didn't like them looking out for their own interests..as in "every man for
himself".
After reading this interview, I'm now definitely convinced that Justin did
discourage Ray and Graeme as much as he possibly could from participating on
both TOSOL and Sur La Mer. Justin is a big egocentric, and he only wants the
band to revolve around him.
He also says that he dislikes "The Present", but in many ways, that album is
the end of an era in the sense that the songwriting is balanced. Ray and
Graeme both play a sizable and respectable role in the recording, and it would
be the final time that they would.
Another interesting comment was how Justin remarked about how he missed Ray
more for this "voice of reason" within the group as opposed to his musical
input and stage precense. It seems that Justin is just fine without Ray
onstage, as that only means that the shows will focus even more on Justin.
gibson girl
> out in the best light. I don't pretend to know even the smallest portions of
> this situation...only what I have heard from various people over the last
> couple years....SO...this is JMO based on what I know...which is admittedly
> very little!!
>
> azure spirit
Makes perfect sense to me. But I too know very little. (rolls eyes)
CatGOD29
>Patrick was in a condescending, disrespectful, and trivial manner in that
>statement to Goldmine, and the following is a pretty close rendering as to
>what
>Justin said in the interview about Moraz (sorry, don't have it in front of me
to copy word for word..so let me paraphrase)
You don't need to; I have the magazine so I know what was said. Justin didn't
elaborate on the problems Patrick may have caused the band. It may be Justin
actually did talk about the problems but Goldmine chose not to include those
comments in the article. It wouldn't be the first time a magazine had edited an
article for content.
>Why didn't Justin just keep it positive? Why take the dig? The only reason
>is that he doesn't want to let it go. ..the man is resentful.
Perhaps the two guys just couldn't stand each other? Not then or now. When
two people don't get along, it's inevitable something will give. It's also
inevitable that someone (like Moraz) with no real standing will be the one to
lose.
Always, there are two sides to every story but again, what has Patrick Moraz
ever said about the events leading up to his departure? Has he spent the better
part of the last decade sulking because he was sacked from a lucrative gig or
has he moved on with his life? And if it doesn't bother him, why let it bother
you?
>Also, wonder what was meant when Justin lamented about "every man for
>himself" being a problem?
It could've hinged on the songwriting but it could also have been financial
problems or personal differences. It could be that when Moraz entered the
picture, he tried to gain the advantage of whatever was taking place and work
it to his personal benefit.
And, the only ones who truly know what happened are Hayward, Thomas, Edge,
Lodge and Moraz, Pip Williams (perhaps) and perhaps some of their stage
personnel.
>The funny thing was, he said he didn't feel the band got back on the right
track till they recorded "TOSOL". This is even more intriguing,
>because how did the band get back on the right track when only Justin & John
>were writing all the songs, with the sole exception of "the spirit"?
Again, if you have the Goldmine article, you know that Justin mentions they
were doing insane things like spending nine weeks on a drum track.
As for TOSOL, they could've recorded more tracks for the album which they
didn't use and that could've included contributions from Ray and Graeme. As
producer, I assume Tony Visconti worked with the band in selecting the songs
but personally, I would like to have had at least two or three songs by Ray on
the album. Even with TOSOL, a pile driver of a song, the album seemed too
short.
>Now, this has me wondering, Justin's statement lamenting about "every man for
>himself" seems to indicate that he didn't like how Grame, Ray and Patrick
>were
>wanting to record their own songs on the Moody Blues albums....in other
>words,
>he didn't like them looking out for their own interests..as in "every man for
>himself".
>
Again, he didn't say that here but it could be that's what he meant and
again, it could've had something to do with money or personal differences. It
could be there was resentment from Ray and Graeme because their songs were
never picked for singles. Ray's 1972 song "For My Lady" had every right to be a
single, as much as "Isn't Life Strange" and "I'm Just A Singer (In A Rock And
Roll Band);" radio stations played that song as much or more than they did the
two John Lodge songs.
And again, if Patrick walked into that situation and tried to play them off
each other so that he stood to benefit from it, that wasn't something which
likely would've endeared himself to the others.
>After reading this interview, I'm now definitely convinced that Justin did
>discourage Ray and Graeme as much as he possibly could from participating on
>both TOSOL and Sur La Mer. Justin is a big egocentric, and he only wants
>the
>band to revolve around him.
>
Possible but in 1988, Moraz also mentioned that "Sur La Mer" was a deliberate
attempt to make a commercial record. He didn't say so but there could've been
pressure from the label (Polydor) and while I very much agreed with him that
the album should've included Ray's songs, Justin's songs and John's songs were
the ones picked to be the singles.
Also, it could be that if they looked at the situation as a financial one,
Ray and Graeme may have felt the money they would earn from a more successful
album would offset the money they would earn from one or two songs. Writing and
publishing royalties were still pretty low in the late 80s - add in the
complaint about royalties going from the US to the UK being only half as much,
perhaps they didn't lose out all that much.
>He also says that he dislikes "The Present", but in many ways, that album is
>the end of an era in the sense that the songwriting is balanced. Ray and
>Graeme both play a sizable and respectable role in the recording, and it
>would
>be the final time that they would.
>
Ray, yes - Graeme, well, he was still basically limited to one song. "Going
Nowhere" (with Ray on lead) was one of Graeme's better songs. Ray needed
something better than "I Am" (which seemed more like a Graeme song) and while
"Sorry" was okay, it didn't measure up to many of Ray's previous standards, not
even up to "Veteran Cosmic Rocker."
>Another interesting comment was how Justin remarked about how he missed Ray
>more for this "voice of reason" within the group as opposed to his musical
>input and stage precense. It seems that Justin is just fine without Ray
>onstage, as that only means that the shows will focus even more on Justin.
It may be that Ray was the peacemaker of the group particularly if the
recording sessions got to be lengthy and tiring. And maybe it was an allusion
to problems they had with Patrick, possibly taken out of context.