On topic question about album lineups
Bob Thomason
In the liner notes of HQ sessions, it was mentioned that the original album
lineup had The Girl I Knew Somewhere and A Little Bit Me, A Little Bit You.
Anyone know where ALBMALBY would have been on the album? Also does anybody
know the original album lineup for The Birds, The Bees, & The Monkees? It
supposedly had Long Title and Alvin.
I would like to program my CD player to hear the original plan for these
albums.
Hoping for Andrew Sandoval to publish Daily Nightly soon!
Hoping for Rhino to put out another Handmade set!
Bob
Estrella
> Hi,
>
> In the liner notes of HQ sessions, it was mentioned that the original album
> lineup had The Girl I Knew Somewhere and A Little Bit Me, A Little Bit You.
> Anyone know where ALBMALBY would have been on the album? Also does anybody
> know the original album lineup for The Birds, The Bees, & The Monkees? It
> supposedly had Long Title and Alvin.
I have no idea on ALBMALBY. The liner notes for "Headquarters"
only mentions TGIKS and gave what supposed to be the original
line-up with that song, so I was a bit surprised when the liner
notes for "Headquarters Sessions" added "A Little Bit...".
Not to mention how weird the album would be if that song
made it on the final line-up.
I think the liner notes for "TBTB&M" has what's supposed
to be the original line-up with "Alvin" in it (nothing about
"Long Title"). Can't confirm that since I have misplaced
my copy of the CD.
If there is ever another Q&A with Andrew Sandoval,
your questions would be really good to ask.
Mark The Shark
>> lineup had The Girl I Knew Somewhere and A Little Bit Me, A Little Bit You.
>> Anyone know where ALBMALBY would have been on the album?
There is a reference in the "Headquarters" (original album) CD liner notes to
the album's original projected running order, but I think there is an obvious
mistake in it...I bet the selection and sequence of the bonus tracks were
changed after the liner notes were written and no one went back and corrected
them...you'll see what I mean, but essentially, "All Of Your Toys" could not be
released in 1967 because of a publishing dispute (Colgems would only release
songs published by Screen Gems-Columbia Music). Anyway, Andrew Sandoval's liner
notes (from the 1995 Rhino CD edition) say:
<< During research for this reissue series, an early album master of
"Headquarters" *that featured "The Girl I Knew Somewhere"* was uncovered. This
unique tape also boasts an alternate running order for the album. If you want
to replicate this early version of "Headquarters," program your CD player to
play this disc in the following sequence: 8, 2, 3, 5, 6, 4, 10, 9, 1, 15, 11,
13, 14, 7 and 12. >>
But here is how that running order comes out:
(8) For Pete's Sake
(2) I'll Spend My Life With You
(3) Forget That Girl
(5) You Just May Be The One
(6) Shades Of Gray
(4) Band 6
(10) Sunny Girlfriend
(9) Mr. Webster
(1) You Told Me
(15) *All Of Your Toys*
(11) Zilch
(13) Early Morning Blues And Greens
(14) Randy Scouse Git
(7) I Can't Get Her Off My Mind
(12) No Time
That makes it look to me like when Rhino first prepared their CD, "The Girl I
Knew Somewhere" would have been track 15 and "All Of Your Toys" would have been
track 16, but someone switched them at the last minute. Additionally, it would
have been the wrong version of "The Girl I Knew Somewhere" anyway, as explained
below...
This early (pre-final) "Headquarters" master was later included in full (in a
mono mix) on the "Headquarters Sessions" set. The running order as presented
there:
For Pete's Sake
I'll Spend My Life With You
Forget That Girl
You Just May Be The One
Shades Of Gray
Band 6
Sunny Girlfriend
Mr. Webster
You Told Me
*The Girl I Knew Somewhere*
Zilch
Early Morning Blues And Greens
Randy Scouse Git
I Can't Get Her Off My Mind
No Time
I note that in this early projected running order, "Band 6" was literally BAND
6...hence the title. But when the album was released, "Band 6" was actually
band *four.*
A couple other things: First, the version of "The Girl I Knew Somewhere"
included on the early mono master (as featured on "Headquarters Sessions") is
the final released single version with Micky Dolenz on lead vocals. That
version was not on the Rhino "Headquarters" CD. (The 1995 Rhino CD includes the
earlier version of "The Girl I Knew Somewhere" with Michael Nesmith singing
lead. Both versions are on "Headquarters Sessions.") Also, in answer to the
question...
> Anyone know where ALBMALBY would have been on the album?
Andrew Sandoval's "Headquarters Sessions" notes say that "A Little Bit Me, A
Little Bit You" would have gone between "Shades Of Gray" and "Band 6" (which
would have moved "Band 6" to band *7*...here we go again). Also, regarding the
last two songs ("I Can't Get Her Off My Mind" and "No Time") in this early
album lineup, Sandoval's notes say:
<< "I Can't Get Her Off My Mind" and "No Time" are present at the end of the
reel, but the tape box notes that (sic) were to have been omitted from the
release of the original record. >>
Also does anybody
>> know the original album lineup for The Birds, The Bees, & The Monkees? It
>> supposedly had Long Title and Alvin.
>
The notes on Rhino's 1994 CD reissue of "The Birds, The Bees & The Monkees"
give an alternate (early) running order for the album, again providing a track
sequence you can program to listen to it on your CD player. However, in this
case, Andrew Sandoval noted "Long Title: Do I Have To Do This All Over Again"
and "Through The Looking Glass" were supposed to have been part of it, but did
not say where they would have gone (those songs are not included in the
"programmable resequence" since they are not included on the CD). Here is the
running order without those two songs:
We Were Made For Each Other
Writing Wrongs
I'll Be Back Up On My Feet
Valleri
Dream World
P.O. Box 9847
Tapioca Tundra
The Poster
Alvin
Daydream Believer
Zor And Zam
Also, if anyone's interested, another Monkees album boasts an "alternate
running order" with sequencing instructions included on Rhino's CD reissue.
Here is an early projected lineup for "Pisces, Aquarius, Capricorn & Jones
Ltd.":
Special Announcement
She Hangs Out
Salesman (long fade with Nesmith's salesman spiel at the end)
Cuddly Toy
Words
Don't Call On Me
Goin' Down (the version on Rhino's "Pisces" CD is a mono mix with the longest
known extended ending...it's not clear whether that specific version is the one
that would have been included)
The Door Into Summer
Hard To Believe
What Am I Doing Hangin' 'Round?
Daily Nightly
Peter Percival Patterson's Pet Pig Porky
Pleasant Valley Sunday
Star Collector (alternate mix with different Moog effects, slightly longer than
originally released version)
The notes on Rhino's CD reissue of "The Monkees Present" do not include any
"alternate lineup" information. That album is supposed to have originally been
planned as a 2-LP set, with either (depending on when it would have been
released) one side of solo recordings from each of the four Monkees, or one
solo side each from Nesmith, Jones and Dolenz and one side of "group songs"
(probably leftovers from the early albums like "Ladies Aid Society" and
"Looking For The Good Times," both of which made the final track lineup). So
either Rhino couldn't locate an early, non-final album master or there never
was one (maybe the album's concept was changed before it got to the mastering
stage). Still, if any alternate "Present" lineup exists, it would be very
interesting for comparison.
I just noticed that the original post in this thread is labeled "on
topic"...the opposite of standard Usenet etiquette, where *off-topic* posts are
flagged. A sad acknowledgement of the state of this newsgroup indeed.
Bob Thomason
Good catch on the HQ lineup. I guess I missed that reference.
For my money, I would bet that Looking Glass would have opened BB&M, but who
knows where Long Title would have been. Maybe before Writing Wrongs? That
would have been strange!
Bob
Readrober
Where's Monkeetalk?
You still discussing line-ups?
I kind of like the original Pisces... lineup.
I recently put together a cd of early nineties recordings and called it Just A
Matter Of Time:
1 Yellow Butterfly
2 Just A Matter Of Time
3 It's The Season
4 MGB-GT
5 I Wanna Fall In LOve
6 Lonely Weekends
7 I Am Not That
8 Manchester Boy
9 Laugh Kills Lonesome
10 Not That Bad
11 Couldn't Have Been Love
12 Higher And Higher
13 Moon Over The Rio Grande
14 Lullaby To Tim
It's good, mellow, but great to hear them on one album together. I cross-faded
Manchester... and Laugh... because Davy laughs at the end of Manchester... and
it cues Laugh... well. I like playing around with Monkee Tracks in the computer
studio and creating albums. My Presents... album is finished.......the solo
sides and one group side. It's much better to me than the original Presents...
album. Did you listen to While I Cried? I swear you hear Mike say "Davy?" at
the end of the "ba-ba, ba-bah"s right when he sings "thoughts keep....", please
review and reply.
Readrober
SIDE ONE
Through The Looking Glass
We Were Made For Each Other
Writing Wrongs
Back Up On My Feet Again (original listing)
Valleri
Do I Have To Do This All Over Again
SIDE TWO
Dream World
P.O. Box 9847
Tapioca Tundra
The Poster
Alvin
Daydream Believer
Zor & Zam
This line-up was taken from an article in "Listen To The Band" Audio Cassette
Traders Fanzine in 1987! It was produced by Kevin Schmid from an undisclosed
source. It was confirmed to me when Andrew Sandoval listed the original line-up
for Birds... in the cd liner notes. I said to myself "Kevin was right!" I hope
this helped.
Mark The Shark
>Hey Mark,
>Where's Monkeetalk?
Who? What?
>You still discussing line-ups?
Sure...I'd be glad to discuss anything actually associated with the subject of
this supposed newsgroup...
Looks cool. Unfortunately, I have to confess that I am not familiar with
several of the songs (probably David's...I don't have much of his solo
material).
> My Presents... album is finished.......the solo
>sides and one group side. It's much better to me than the original
>Presents...
>album.
Cool. It's a great concept for an album.
> Did you listen to While I Cried? I swear you hear Mike say "Davy?" at
>the end of the "ba-ba, ba-bah"s right when he sings "thoughts keep....",
>please
>review and reply.
>
>
I just listened to it three times on headphones, but I can't hear it.
>
>
>
>
Mark The Shark
Thanks for the info! Now, one other discrepancy: An alternate mix of "Through
The Looking Glass" (with horns) is included as a bonus track on Rhino's
"Instant Replay" CD. Andrew Sandoval's liner notes say this mix was the one
originally intended for "The Birds, The Bees & The Monkees." But the recording
dates are listed as September 10, 1966 (which is wrong...after this CD was
released, Rhino discovered a completely different version of the song from the
1966 session, which was included on "Missing Links Vol. 3"), December 30, 1967
and December 20, 1968. Since "The Birds, The Bees & The Monkees" was released
in April 1968, some of whatever overdubbing was done to the song would seem to
have been done well after BBM was released. Unless that's just a generic
listing of sessions applying to various takes of the song, including the final
released version. Anyone know if there were any other changes to "Long Title?"
brilton
Mark The Shark wrote:
> Thanks for the info! Now, one other discrepancy: An alternate mix of "Through
> The Looking Glass" (with horns) is included as a bonus track on Rhino's
> "Instant Replay" CD. Andrew Sandoval's liner notes say this mix was the one
> originally intended for "The Birds, The Bees & The Monkees.
> Since "The Birds, The Bees & The Monkees" was released
> in April 1968, some of whatever overdubbing was done to the song would seem to
> have been done well after BBM was released.
As far as I know, the mix of "Through The Looking Glass" done in December 1968
(and issued on Instant Replay) was only a remix. Comparing it to the bonus track
version found on BB&M CD (from December 1967), its most notable feature is the
absence of brass in the intro.
Readrober
those girls are bitching about under the posting "parenting skills".......they
should get off this site and discuss it in a chat room. I just came in to this
discussion site and read that crap. What kind of image does that give to random
visitors to this so-called Monkees discussion site? Take it outside.
The web site I refered to was monkeetalk.com, music is discussed in much more
depth there, some really informative stuff.....but it recently blanked out,
again. When I heard the "Davy?" sound in While I Cried I was listening to the
MUSIC BOX version, I didn't listen to it from other sources to confirm what I
heard, but I'll check. There's a lot of discussion recently about who is
singing backup vocals on WIC and IWBTSWH from IR. It's a 50/50 split on
Davy/Micky and studio musicians. Sandoval has no documentation to confirm this
theory, but it is obvious it is Davy/Micky on WIC. It was while I was listening
to these songs intently hrough headphones, isolating right and left channels,
that I heard the "Davy?" sound. It sounds weird, but I heard it over and
over...same thing every time..right after "ba-ba, ba-bah", then Mike sings
"thoughts keep" (and in the background - as if the background vocal mics aren't
cut yet I hear it, faintly but clearly). I thought, yeah...see...I knew Davy
was singing. Why Mike is saying "Davy?" I don't know but he sounds coarse.
Whatever.
Mark The Shark
>When I heard the "Davy?" sound in While I Cried I was listening to the
>MUSIC BOX version, I didn't listen to it from other sources to confirm what I
>heard, but I'll check.
Oh!
I was listening to the Rhino "Instant Replay" CD.
But I just pulled out "Music Box" and I don't catch it there either. But if
your equipment is more sophisticated than mine is (and it sounds like it is)
maybe you can hear stuff I can't.
<<There's a lot of discussion recently about who is
>singing backup vocals on WIC and IWBTSWH from IR. It's a 50/50 split on
>Davy/Micky and studio musicians. Sandoval has no documentation to confirm
>this
>theory, but it is obvious it is Davy/Micky on WIC. It was while I was
>listening
>to these songs intently hrough headphones, isolating right and left channels,
>that I heard the "Davy?" sound. It sounds weird, but I heard it over and
>over...same thing every time..right after "ba-ba, ba-bah", then Mike sings
>"thoughts keep" (and in the background - as if the background vocal mics
>aren't
>cut yet I hear it, faintly but clearly). I thought, yeah...see...I knew Davy
>was singing. Why Mike is saying "Davy?" I don't know but he sounds coarse.
>Whatever.
I don't know about that one. It sounds surprising to think Micky or David would
be singing backup on a 1968-69 era Nesmith song, because they essentially never
participated in each other's sessions by that time. Although I note Micky and
David did back up Nez singing "Nine Times Blue" on the Johnny Cash Show in 1969
and it was majestic. And then again, I just remembered that David sings "My
Share Of The Sidewalk." I would *love* for it to actually be Micky and David
singing with him on "While I Cry," but it seems like I remember someone saying
it was actually Nesmith and Bill Chadwick. But who knows? David is supposed to
be singing backup on Peter's "Do I Have To Do This All Over Again," and Micky
sings on "Tear The Top Right Off Of My Head." But that's Tork, not Nesmith.
brilton
Readrober wrote:
> It was while I was listening
> to these songs intently hrough headphones, isolating right and left channels,
> that I heard the "Davy?" sound. It sounds weird, but I heard it over and
> over...same thing every time..right after "ba-ba, ba-bah", then Mike sings
> "thoughts keep" (and in the background - as if the background vocal mics aren't
> cut yet I hear it, faintly but clearly). I thought, yeah...see...I knew Davy
> was singing. Why Mike is saying "Davy?" I don't know but he sounds coarse.
I've given that section a few listens (Music Box vsn), and I can't hear it.
Whereabouts in the stereo picture do you hear it? And is it immediately before the
word "Thoughts"?
Re: the endless whiney arguing girls. I just killfile about eight or nine of the
posters in here and, hey presto, it's nice and civilised.
Readrober
the background as Mike sings "thought keep turning...." - right under
"turning". I hear it over and over now with every source I have. I can confirm
it's there. I recommend headphones to hear it. Other interesting sounds I've
heard when listen to Monkees' music is a cough in "What Am I Doing Hangin"
Round?" right when Mike sings "well it's been a year or so...(Cough)...and I
want to go back again". Though, this is on most versions but not all. Another
way I isolate tracks (while wearing headphones), is using my audio toggle
feature which can take the right or left channel and put it in mono - center.
Listen to P.O.Box 9847 in the right channel from Music Box - the best remix -
to ommit all studio effects and hear what is the basic track without bass.
Mark The Shark
I have also noticed someone "sniffing" (with a cold?) during the celeste part
in "I'll Spend My Life With You," and of course, Davy comes in a little early
on "When Love Comes Knockin' (At Your Door)." Those are two I can think of, off
the top of my head.
Estrella
> I have also noticed someone "sniffing" (with a cold?) during the celeste part
> in "I'll Spend My Life With You," and of course, Davy comes in a little early
> on "When Love Comes Knockin' (At Your Door)." Those are two I can think of, off
> the top of my head.
>
> http://www.angelfire.com/space/usenet/
There is supposed to be a touchtone phone sound when
Davy sings "You know our future and our feelings..." in
"Not Too Late". I've heard Davy saying softly "Don't know"
in "ALBM, ALBYT" right before he is supposed to actually
sing that phrase.
There is a lot of studio chatter in other songs, particulary those
that appeared on the Missing Links series. Mike during
the beginning of "My Share of the Sidewalk", a British fellow
on "So Goes Love", etc.
Peter had mentioned Davy and Micky chatting in the beginning
of "I'm Gonna Buy Me A Dog", but I don't hear it.
Estrella
http://members.tripod.com/~s3tar/monkees/faq.html
Mark The Shark
>Peter had mentioned Davy and Micky chatting in the beginning
>of "I'm Gonna Buy Me A Dog", but I don't hear it.
Now? You know my girl? Now?
Now.
Now?
Also...after "Cause I need a friend now, yeah, yeah,
boo-boo-she-bop-bop-ram-a-lam," I hear someone (Tommy Boyce) saying "Drop the
extras!"
BlackMonk
"Estrella" <pacDEL...@mailDELETEcity.com> wrote in message
news:3E7A5B99...@mailDELETEcity.com...
Isn't the whole song Davy and Micky chatting?
Estrella
> > Peter had mentioned Davy and Micky chatting in the beginning
> > of "I'm Gonna Buy Me A Dog", but I don't hear it.
> >
> >
>
> Isn't the whole song Davy and Micky chatting?
Lol. Sort of, Micky does some singing while Davy
heckles him, and they do some chatting. I was expecting
something like five seconds of conversation without
the music.
Estrella
http://members.tripod.com/~s3tar/monkees/faq.html