MAnson the blame of suicide 11/6/97

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Astrofreek

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Nov 6, 1997, 3:00:00 AM11/6/97
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I just seen on the news on channel 4 in new york ..

parent of kid who shot himself is trying to blame manson because of his sons
death ...
he should try blaming himself if he thinks Manson is the reason...he is th one
who let him listen to the shit!!! he said he didnt read the lyrics til after
his son died ..if he knew anything thats the last thing manson promotes is
suicide .

Suicide is for the week...

So the cd was in his Cd player ..when he died...Big deal ........

i knew he would be the blame for suicide sooner or later....

And Capital Hill plans on targeting Manson and some gangsta rappers...

he a dickweed!!!

Mirjen

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Nov 6, 1997, 3:00:00 AM11/6/97
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Astrofreek wrote:
>
> I just seen on the news on channel 4 in new york ..

actually, it's the big subject on the new Senate hearings, led by (ug)
my state's "Democratic" senator. "The Impact of Violent Music Lyrics on
Youth Behavior and Well-Being in the District of Columbia and Across the
Nation."



> parent of kid who shot himself is trying to blame manson because of his sons
> death ...
> he should try blaming himself if he thinks Manson is the reason...

> Suicide is for the week...

actually, i expect these hearings to last for well over a week...
Suicide is for the weak, though, I agree.

> And Capital Hill plans on targeting Manson and some gangsta rappers...

I'd appreciate e-mail if anyone has any recent online sources of
information about the hearings.

(n.b. - the X in the address should be replaced by an 'e' to work
correctly)

Mirjen

--
Mirjen: future empress-o-the-world.
Reflect on how this could affect you.
http://www.slak.org/mirj/ fnord.
Please do not approach me with trout.

spaceghosts

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Nov 7, 1997, 3:00:00 AM11/7/97
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Astrofreek wrote:
>
> I just seen on the news on channel 4 in new york ..
>
> parent of kid who shot himself is trying to blame manson because of his sons
> death ...
> he should try blaming himself if he thinks Manson is the reason...he is th one
> who let him listen to the shit!!! he said he didnt read the lyrics til after
> his son died ..if he knew anything thats the last thing manson promotes is
> suicide .
>
> Suicide is for the week...
>
> So the cd was in his Cd player ..when he died...Big deal ........
>
> i knew he would be the blame for suicide sooner or later....
>
> And Capital Hill plans on targeting Manson and some gangsta rappers...
>
> he a dickweed!!!
In short your saying this kid was a idiot? I agree. Capitol Hill ay? Of
course manson
isn't about inflicting violence, but I also think that gangsta rap
doesn't have much
affect on youth behaviour. It's not RAP music that makes 'hommies'
violent, it's just
the society around them. Everyone's looking for a scape-goat.

CMSpurple

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Nov 7, 1997, 3:00:00 AM11/7/97
to

>parent of kid who shot himself is trying to blame manson because of his sons
> death ...
>he should try blaming himself if he thinks Manson is the reason...he is th
>one
> who let him listen to the shit!!! he said he didnt read the lyrics til after
> his son died ..if he knew anything thats the last thing manson promotes is
> suicide .
>
>

God forbid , people should take responsibilty for their own actions. DUH

Catherine
who has a real LOW tolerance for stupid people

Cryptorchid

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Nov 7, 1997, 3:00:00 AM11/7/97
to mir...@ibm.net

Mirjen wrote:

> I'd appreciate e-mail if anyone has any recent online sources of
> information about the hearings.

The following is courtesy of Angelynx:

From: "Paula O'Keefe" <angelyn...@geocities.com>
Subject: Today's Senate subcommittee hearing

OK, here's the edited version, for those of you who like your news fast
and
decaf. The full-length & caffeinated version will be available soonish
on
the newsgroup and several web pages.

The Senate Subcommittee on Oversight of Government Management and
Restructuring met from 12 noon to 2:15 on Thursday 11/6/97 to discuss
the
topic "Music Violence: How Does It Affect Our Youth?" Subcommittee was
chaired by Sen. Sam Brownback of Kansas but featured such proven
anti-Manson
notables as Sen. Joe Lieberman and the loveable Dr. C. DeLores Tucker
(National Political Congress of Black Women, National Council of
Churches,
etcet etcet). Speakers in order were:
--Sen. Brownback. Stressed that this was *not* a legislative meeting
and no
bills or other official action were being suggested; info meeting only.
Said that group considers the rise in violent teen crime/pregnancy/drug
use
as inextricably connected to violence in the media; that most pop music
is
just fine but this "violent, hateful, misogynistic and brutal" music is
a
cause for real concern. Quoted some lyrics by Cannibal Corpse and a rap
song called "Slap A Ho".
--Sen. Lieberman. Said something's wrong when TV/fashion/videos, rather
than parents/teachers/clergy, transmit values to kids; that a "culture
of
violence" is desensitizing kids etc. He called it "unfortunate" that
the
music industry refuses to acknowledge the committee's concerns and
"dismisses us as censors." Insisted that the industry "must stop
hiding
behind the First Amendment" and *must* accept responsibility for the
effect
violent lyrics have on kids. He laid into Manson and ACS, causing the
album
"vile, hateful, nihilistic and damaging" and actually calling on
Seagrams
[owners of 50% of Interscope] to disassociate themselves from MM.
--Raymond Kuntz, parent. Kuntz told the emotional story of his son
Richard's suicide by gunshot. Richard had been listening to "The
Reflecting
God" over and over (so said his friends) and ACS was still in his CD
player
when his body was discovered. Kuntz read the entire lyrics of the song
and
hammered Manson, saying "this music glorifies inhumanity, promotes
suicide,
contradicts all values and hurts us as a people." Lieberman asked him
to
comment on the argument that parents should take responsibility for what
kids listen to; Kuntz, of course, denied that; said that kids are
everyone's
responsibility and the pressure of the culture is too much for parents
to
handle alone.
--Dr. Palumbo, American Ass'n. of Paediatricians. He stressed that
music has
both positive and negative effects - said that the ACS lyrics are deeply
depressing and could affect any troubled person. Parents do need to be
responsible but so do corporations (Again this point!). Music videos
and
violent music exacerbate conflicts and tensions, he said, and make
extreme
reactions seem reasonable.
--Hilary Rosen, President/CEO of the Recording Industry Association of
America (RIAA). The *only* person to speak on behalf of Manson and the
rappers - she had brought witnesses but they were not allowed to speak.
(Ahem.) Rosen said the labels apply three standards when deciding what
to
release: (1) does it have a musical sensibility? (2) is the artist
credible
and genuine? (3) is the work different? If these apply, but the lyrical
content is extreme, the record gets an Explicit sticker and she insisted
this would keep kids under 17 from buying it (others testified
otherwise).
Brownback actually asked her if they don't *really* select for misogyny
and
violent content, since those are saleable (!), but she held steady that
credibility is the major point, and that the whole work (as artistic
statement, as satire, as theater) is considered. Refused to debate
MM's
lyrics point by point though Brownback desperately wanted to; she
described
ACS as "the story of one man, an abused child, railing against a
hypocritical society." Adults buy these records too, she (hooray!)
pointed
out, and much music has positive messages.
--Sen. Lieberman again. He expressed great disappointment that Rosen
"didn't admit how terrible this is" or suggest amending sales policy.
Thinks
RIAA should consider more detailed warning stickers.
--Dr. C. DeLores Tucker - the only speaker to concentrate on rap and the
damage it does black teens by glamorizing the gangsta lifestyle. She
made
the incredible statement that corporations which refuse to be "socially
responsible" should be denied their commercial licenses to operate
--actually said "should not be allowed to exist". (!!) She brought a
bunch
of visual aids she wasn't permitted to use (short on time) but one was
the
infamous blowup of the AC back cover photo. (Also made it clear she
isn't
sure what a dildo is. )
--Prof. Donald Roberts: discussed his theories on the appeal of heavy
metal and rap.

That's the basic stuff. Place was crawling with media. We six were the
only Manson fans to show up and
got grabbed for a lot of interviews (suspect the press noted the
**extreme**
one-sided nature of the testimony...). Guy from SPIN Magazine said he
had
heard that these were only preliminary hearings and that more were to be
held in January, at which time Manson himself might be asked to
testify. O
brother.

More details available elsewhere RSN.
==angelynx== (Paula O'Keefe) angelyn...@geocities.com
....... whatever doesn't kill us makes us stranger................
...Visit my Web page: http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Alley/4812

--
Cryptorchid


"Friends come and go, but enemies accumulate." - Murphy

Cryptorchid's Traders Page
http://www.ans.com.au/~kobe/traders.html

The alt.music.marilyn-manson Webring
http://www.ans.com.au/~kobe/ring.html

Lu<ifer H@wk

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Nov 7, 1997, 3:00:00 AM11/7/97
to


spaceghosts <highw...@wave.co.nz> wrote in article > > he should try


blaming himself if he thinks Manson is the reason...he is th one
> > who let him listen to the shit!!! he said he didnt read the lyrics til
after
> > his son died ..if he knew anything thats the last thing manson
promotes is
> > suicide .
> >

> In short your saying this kid was a idiot? I agree. Capitol Hill ay? Of
> course manson
> isn't about inflicting violence, but I also think that gangsta rap
> doesn't have much
> affect on youth behaviour. It's not RAP music that makes 'hommies'
> violent, it's just
> the society around them. Everyone's looking for a scape-goat.
>

Don't get upset people. We all know that responsibility is just a
disease these days. Enough people seem to pushing for more
censorship. They want to be ruled entirely. They don't want to have
freedom of choice. They would rather give up their freedoms than
to become responsible for themselves and their children. I do get
upset myself when I hear people complaining about the impact of
violent TV and other type influences on their children, and I would
like to say to each and every one of these people (very calmly)
"If you don't approve of what your child is watching/listening, then
be a parent and turn it off." I understand that there is no instruction
manual that comes with raising kids but it's the parents
responsibility to regulate what their child watches. I wish they
wouldn't throw it into the hands of the Government to raise their
children. Enough of my ranting all, and enjoy your day.

Shadow


--
I've been to the pit, I've seen my Hell.
I've tasted the heat and I know the smell.
Didn't much like it, don't wanna go back.
As I slide into the abyss everything's gone black.
---
Mine eyes have seen the glory of the coming of the Horde.
The multitudes of demons that bow down to our dark lord.
Satanic rites, blood rituals that Christians have abhorred.
Our twisted truth goes marching on.
(chorus)
Gory, Gory Sacrifices,
We don't care what the price is.
We've sold our souls to the one below for power here and now.
Our blackened souls rot, evermore.


Ktpupp

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Nov 9, 1997, 3:00:00 AM11/9/97
to

In article <34635ca7...@news.monmouth.com>, Terrib...@hotmail.com
(----===[ Ant ]===----) writes:

>How many teens kill themselves in a year? <Thousands> Yet, when one of them
>listens to MM, it ends up being blasted by the media... Have u seen this
>story
>played on a local News channel?.., What was the majority of the newscast
>about...
>Did they even mention *WHY* he killed himself, if he was mentally fucked up?
>depressed, family probs...etc... Nope, no one didnt even bother investigating
>to the
>real reason he is lying 6 feet under right now... All they care about is
>placing the blame on
>someone, and its all going to Manson..

This is more or less the argument I have too.. if this music was so
powerful as to control this poor kids mind, why hasn't their been some huge
epidemic of Manson fan suicides?!?!?! If the music was really to blame,
and the album has sold over 5 million <?> copies, seems the suicide rate
would have drasitically jumped since the ACS album was released.....

And yes, if the kid had been a fan of any other band with less of an
"evil" image ("evil" according to the media/Xians) no one would have made
mention of it.

I had a great friend who was intelligent and also very mentally unstable.
Although you would never guess it until you spent a lot of time with him.
He hung himself while listening to Pink Floyd. Does that mean they are to
blame?! No. His parents didn't know shit about him, thought he was their
darling little boy in Cub Scouts even tho he had just gotten his Bachelors
degree in Psych/Anthropology....(Which by the way, his parents didn't
bother to attend his graduation....where were they then!?!!?) Perhaps the
fact the he was never accepted by them, shown real love from them or felt
they even cared might have had more to do with his death... His parents
blamed the fact that he lived in a co-op with a bunch of "freaks"... We
changed him apparently. Fuck that!

Sorry.. had to rant a bit... hits kinda close to home sometimes...

-=KT=-

Cryptorchid

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Nov 10, 1997, 3:00:00 AM11/10/97
to

Ktpupp wrote:
>
> This is more or less the argument I have too.. if this music was so
> powerful as to control this poor kids mind, why hasn't their been some huge
> epidemic of Manson fan suicides?!?!?! If the music was really to blame,
> and the album has sold over 5 million <?> copies, seems the suicide rate
> would have drasitically jumped since the ACS album was released.....
>
> And yes, if the kid had been a fan of any other band with less of an
> "evil" image ("evil" according to the media/Xians) no one would have made
> mention of it.
>
> I had a great friend who was intelligent and also very mentally unstable.
> Although you would never guess it until you spent a lot of time with him.
> He hung himself while listening to Pink Floyd. Does that mean they are to
> blame?! No. His parents didn't know shit about him, thought he was their
> darling little boy in Cub Scouts even tho he had just gotten his Bachelors
> degree in Psych/Anthropology....(Which by the way, his parents didn't
> bother to attend his graduation....where were they then!?!!?) Perhaps the
> fact the he was never accepted by them, shown real love from them or felt
> they even cared might have had more to do with his death... His parents
> blamed the fact that he lived in a co-op with a bunch of "freaks"... We
> changed him apparently. Fuck that!
>
> Sorry.. had to rant a bit... hits kinda close to home sometimes...
>
> -=KT=-

And here's a quote from an interview with Marilyn and Ozzy:

Osbourne: I've now been sued by about 25 people who claim their kids
committed suicide from listening to my music. That's total crap.

Manson: I've always said that if someone is stupid enough to want to
kill themselves over music, then that's what they deserve. That's one
less stupid person in the world.

Osbourne: It would be a very bad career move on my part, don't you
think, if I intentionally put out records that make people commit
suicide? If everyone who buys the record is gonna fucking shoot
themselves, then the follow-up wouldn't sell many records, would it?

Enough said.

terata

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Nov 10, 1997, 3:00:00 AM11/10/97
to

Couldn't agree with you more.. I noticed Mr Cuntz kept saying "but I really
didn't pay much attention" a lot when he was talking out his fleeting
interest in his sons activities

Here lies the real culprit.

Terata

Saul

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Nov 10, 1997, 3:00:00 AM11/10/97
to

Originator: spaceghosts
Subject: "MAnson the blame of suicide 11/6/97"
Dated: Fri, 7 Nov 1997.

You have free speech, but what you say might still be crap.

>> I just seen on the news on channel 4 in new york ..
>>

>> parent of kid who shot himself is trying to blame manson because of his sons
>> death ...

>> he should try blaming himself if he thinks Manson is the reason...he is th one
>> who let him listen to the shit!!! he said he didnt read the lyrics til after
>> his son died ..if he knew anything thats the last thing manson promotes is
>> suicide .
>>

>> Suicide is for the week...

So what do we do at the weekends?
--
Saul

DarkAngel

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Nov 10, 1997, 3:00:00 AM11/10/97
to

In article <19971109171...@ladder01.news.aol.com>, ktp...@aol.com
(Ktpupp) wrote:

> In article <34635ca7...@news.monmouth.com>, Terrib...@hotmail.com
> (----===[ Ant ]===----) writes:
>
> >How many teens kill themselves in a year? <Thousands> Yet, when one of them
> >listens to MM, it ends up being blasted by the media... Have u seen this
> >story
> >played on a local News channel?.., What was the majority of the newscast
> >about...
> >Did they even mention *WHY* he killed himself, if he was mentally fucked up?
> >depressed, family probs...etc... Nope, no one didnt even bother investigating
> >to the
> >real reason he is lying 6 feet under right now... All they care about is
> >placing the blame on
> >someone, and its all going to Manson..
>

> This is more or less the argument I have too.. if this music was so
> powerful as to control this poor kids mind, why hasn't their been some huge
> epidemic of Manson fan suicides?!?!?! If the music was really to blame,
> and the album has sold over 5 million <?> copies, seems the suicide rate
> would have drasitically jumped since the ACS album was released.....

Exactly what I think. I remember the whole deal about Roleplaying games
being responsible for teen suicides, and it's IMO a very similar case. Here
is an exerpt (sp?) of a text file I found on the W3.

> The claims by conservative Christian groups that gamers commit suicide or
> engage in criminal acts do not appear to hold water:
>
> * Michael Stackpole calculated expected suicide rates by gamers
> during the early years of Dungeons and Dragons. He used BADD (Bothered
> about Dungeons and Dragons) 's estimate
> of 4 million gamers worldwide. Assuming that fantasy role game playing
> had no effect on youth suicide rate, one would have expected about 500
> gamers would have committed suicide each year. As of 1987, BADD had
> documented an average of 7 per year. It would appear that playing D&D
> could be promoted as a public health measure, because it drastically
> lowers the suicide rate.

I don't know about the statistics in Manson's case, but I believe that the
same arguments could be used in this case.

--
"Hey brother christian with your high and mighty errand,
your actions speak so loud I can't hear a word you're saying!"

-Bad Religion, "I want to conquer the world"

"How could hell be any worse?
Life alone is such a curse!
F**k Armageddon, this is hell!"

-Bad Religion, "F**k Armageddon"

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