Okay, there's now a song up
hank alrich
gonna use backing tracks, maybe it's not such an awful transgression.
I've put a few posts here, so maybe someone here would like to know
something about a part of my own musical life.
This is one of ten cuts from a project I've just produced of my daughter
Shaidri and me with Doug Harman on cello. We tracked for three regular
circa eight-hour work days (Nov 3, 4, 5) head-on, no headphones, no
overdubs, all-together-now, with Fred Remmert at Cedar Creek Recording
in Austin TX, edited and mixed there the 9th and 10th, mastered with
Jerry Tubb at Terra Nova Digital Audio on the 12th.
Packaging was slammed together by the great, late BIll Narum (think ZZ
Top packages and stage sets back in the 1970's), who FTP'd the graphics
off Monday afternoon, and was found deceased Wednesday at his place at
Acorn in the country east of Austin.
We've put up our version of an old song that I learned in the 1960's
from a Charilie Poole and the North Carolina Ramblers recording that was
made in 1929, "The Great Baltimore Fire", in various resolutions
including complete mp3 versions at 128, 192, and 320 kbps, and partial
clips of wav files at 16/44.1 and 24/96:
http://www.armadillomusicproductions.com/CarryMeHome.htm
--
ha
shut up and play your guitar
little nicky noo-noos!@noono.com ..... little nicky noo-noos!
Kudos to you, your daughter and Doug.
Cheers,
nick a
"hank alrich" <walk...@nv.net> wrote in message
news:1j9hjkc.1yvpefxihzaj6N%walk...@nv.net...
Ernie Garner
be tighter, lots of "flam"ing going on between lead and harmony,
especially at the beginning. Tends to take away from the
intelligibility of the lyrics. Cello tends to be slightly sharp.
Ernie
little nicky noo-noos!@noono.com ..... little nicky noo-noos!
"Ernie Garner" <en...@giveitabreakohernie.com> wrote in message
news:nl0gg5do47hknkmrr...@4ax.com...
Ernie, you really are clueless.
This recording has sweet FA to do with "timing " of vocals, "intelligibility
of lyrics" or intonation of stringed instruments.
It has to do with what real, heartfelt music can communicate to other
living, breathing human beings( okay, obvious jokes noted).
And as such, it is a resounding success.
I'd suggest you keep that "engineer's mind" of yours focused on quantifiable
datum and leave the appreciation of art to others, old bean.
rr
Just can't stay away eh, nickazoid? The ole ego simply can't live with
the fact that life goes on (and is much more pleasant) without you
around. You already tired of posting 20 times a day at your realpigs
playground? Have a falling out with Tom?
rr
Actually, Ern's spot-on with his assessment. Yea, the material's nice
but, as with all of us, it can certainly use some constructive
critique. Ern did a favor. You just wanted to fight with Ern.
I'd add to Ern's note, if you're going to use a cello, play a cello
part (answer during the fills). Don't use a cello to do a bowed bass
part. It bugs us bass players. The voices are nice but that female
vocal could use a different mic. It is entirely unique though. Kudos
to the original poster. Nice website, BTW.
hank alrich
I'm getting a kick out of the commentary. Face it, the CD is done and
now in replication and packaging. We had a certain amount of money/time
and we did what we could. The cellist happens also to be a terrific
piano player, a very good guitarist, and an excellent bass player. One
of the joys of having him in the trio is that he can do lots of things
on the cello, and we look forward to taking advantage of that part of
his ability.
As for "It is entirely unique though", it does seem so, and I'm tickled
to be part of something that has its own signature sound, instead of
being one more sound-alike offering. While there is considerable variety
in the ten songs on the CD, in every one we sound like us.
I don't expect everyone to like our music, especially folks who are
snagged by every litte variance from a beat or pitch grid. "This music
has not been artificially perfected".
I just hope we sell enough to get to do another one.
The website is coming together slowly. We lost our graphic designer who
passed away shortly after wrapping out graphics. Bill Narum was a truly
top level designer and a web wizard of the highest order. (Think ZZ Top
albums and stage sets back in the 1970's.) We wonder what he'd have
done, and we try to do our best.
Here's a few links to info about Bill Narum:
http://www.billnarum.com/opening.htm
http://www.billnarum.com/tempintr.htm
http://www.samopc.org/narum/index.html
Thanks to everyone, including Ernie, for the feedback.
--
ha
shut up and play your guitar
http://www.armadillomusicproductions.com/CarryMeHome.htm
http://hankalrich.com/
Ernie Garner
>
>This recording has sweet FA to do with "timing " of vocals, "intelligibility
>of lyrics" or intonation of stringed instruments.
>
>It has to do with what real, heartfelt music can communicate to other
>living, breathing human beings( okay, obvious jokes noted).
>
>And as such, it is a resounding success.
>
>I'd suggest you keep that "engineer's mind" of yours focused on quantifiable
>datum and leave the appreciation of art to others, old bean.
And I suggest you remember that this is a forum and feedback was
requested.
Ernie
Jim
and there are several ways to give feedback.
I liked Hank's tune / recording, and I said so. Going past that wasn't
something I felt the need to do. Ernie, otoh, had specific things he
felt could be improved.
Both seem valid to me. I gave positive feedback, encouragement. Ernie
pointed to some areas he'd do differently. If I were in H's place, I'd
welcome both.
What isn't good is just blasting someone's work / art out of meanness,
or critiquing styles you don't know anything about. Like the cello
comment, I barely know what a cello is, let alone how they are normally
played.
Singing I do get, and the vocals sounded quite good to me. Ok, very
technical nitpick, I'd maybe have raised the level of the male voice a
bit. Or maybe not. The female part stands out a bit. Maybe that's a
level thing or maybe it's just that I find her performance very
appealing. I like that style. In any case, tipping the balance more
toward the male part would maybe help, or maybe it would just diminish
the total effect. See, to really know that, I'd have to try it and I
wasn't there doing the mix.
So I just lean back and enjoy the art as it is. Resisting the impulse to
suggest a bluer blue or redder red here or there. But if one of my
buddies ask me for thoughts on a mix, and I believed they really wanted
me to point out what I would have done differently, I'd oblige.
jim d
Ernie Garner
heart so Hank's music doesn't sound all that unique to me. As a
former member of a folk club I've listened to and recorded a fair
amount of folk music. I can do an "off the cuff" 2nd harmony and if
you give me a consistant 2nd harmony I can do a third or a counter
melody. In other words, I could relate to the music. My comments
were aimed at making it comparable in quality with some of the other
folk music I've listened to. I was direct because I felt Hank was
professional.
For the record, I had the pleasure of hearing artists, some
international some local, like Michael Smith, John McCutcheon, Kat
Eggleston, Small Potatoes, Tanglefoot, Sons of the Never Wrong and
Artisan. I've said it before - bnringing in my PA and running sound
all day at one of the yearly folk festival stages was what I lived
for. Unfortunately the last of the founders, a Scotsman and true
folky, left, and I was stuck with a bunch of whitebread suburban
corporate types looking for their roots. It was time for me to go.
Yeah, enough rambling already ...
Ernie
rr
>
> - Show quoted text -
Sorry, Hank. I thought you were looking for input. Kudos to you and
yours. I hope "you sell a blue million" (to quote Roy Acuff).
hank alrich
>
> Sorry, Hank. I thought you were looking for input. Kudos to you and
> yours. I hope "you sell a blue million" (to quote Roy Acuff).
Sure, I'm happy to get input from any angle. Bottom line, though, was
just putting up something I've done lately. Everybody has an opinion. I
don't have to agree or disagree with any of them. When a product's
wrapped, that's it; it is what it is and ain't gonna change now.
It's like that old joke,
"How many amateur producers does it take to get a product finished?"
"I don't know. What do you think?"
I'd no more come here looking for serious advice about a production than
I'd come here asking how to do my own ear surgery. I'm way past my
spring chicken era, have plenty of my own opinions, likes, dislikes, and
experience with music, recording, and production. Some folks like it and
some don't and that works for me.
(Also didn't post it with the idea of starting an in-group brawl.
Clearly, there is history here of which I am incognizant. Y'all be nice
now, before momma sends you to your rooms for a time out.)
--
ha
hank alrich
The goal is always mixes that travel well, that hold together across the
extremely wide range of playback systems. Given our voices naturally,
where the power in each lies, slight shifts of apparent relative level
do show up on many systems.
We did our best to bring it all into the ballpark, and in a room like
Jerry Tubb's mastering sutie, one into which a lot of time/money and
skilled effort has been invested to achieve a well-balanced acoustic
response, we got to listen in scary detail. Tiny adjustments to the
overall sound, on the order of a fraction of a dB here or there, were
obvious.
Further, I haven't much experience yet with any of my own recent studio
work converted to mp3's, and there are obvious differences in the
balance of the mix at the different bitrates. Just as obviously is that
the 24 bit 96 KHz originals offer a lot of detail that gradually
disappears as we move down the resolution ladder.
> So I just lean back and enjoy the art as it is. Resisting the impulse to
> suggest a bluer blue or redder red here or there. But if one of my
> buddies ask me for thoughts on a mix, and I believed they really wanted
> me to point out what I would have done differently, I'd oblige.
I'm happy to hear what someone thinks they might have done differently.
We all have different likes and dislikes and different approaches to
production. Sharing those viewpoints can be productive and informative.
That said it was my job to produce this, and it's finished. I have never
engineered and/or produced a recording in which I would in retrospect
not have chosen to do something differently.
--
ha
shut up and play your guitar
http://www.armadillomusicproductions.com/CarryMeHome.htm
http://hankalrich.com/
LoDan
Hank, my apologies sir as I just got around to listening to your
tunes. "The Great Baltimore Fire", what a great tune and a great job
you guys did, The Cello is mournful, you sound just like Doc (Watson)
and I hear a tad bit of Iris Dement in the lady. :)
But mostly I hear your song as a whole. I didn't go to pick it apart,
you know what it's sounds like, it sounds polished and finished. I'll
buy it.
Good, down home music, thanks for sharing.
leo (green with envy)
Ernie Garner
the Dolly Parton, Linda Ronstadt & EmmyLou Harris Trio and I'm going
to have to change my shorts. I bought up the timing because it
disturbed me, not as a techie, but as a folkie. Hopefully other
folkies will not feel the same.
Ernie
LoDan
wrote:
Interesting Ernie, I never took you for a folkie till you starting
talking about it.
I, like probably most the muso's that have passed thru amms, got my
start with folk music of some sort.
My start was the mainstream folk of Seegar, Phil Ochs, Joan Baez and
of course Dylan. I was playing protest songs and I didn't even know
what I was protesting against, but I knew that guitar got me girls, so
they could fight all the wars they wanted to...I just wanted the
women..:)
I saw the Kingston trio in 1965 at a small college in North Carolina
and I was hooked for a lifetime and have a treasured collection of
their music on vinyl.
I would enjoy the harmonies even though I sing very little harmony
myself because I've always been lead or nothing.
In my local area we have little to no traditional folk music being
performed on a regular basis and that's too bad because all the old
boomers would pay to listen.
leo
Ernie Garner
>talking about it.
I actually model pop and rock as extensions of folk music. They are
just the indigenous music of a more modern tribe.
The soloact business basically boils down to one thing:
Play the music of the tribe that pays you and you'll be successful.
Ernie
jim d
walk...@nv.net (hank alrich) wrote:
> >Jim <Spu...@theCat.com> wrote:
> > Singing I do get, and the vocals sounded quite good to me. Ok, very
> > technical nitpick, I'd maybe have raised the level of the male voice a
> > bit. Or maybe not. The female part stands out a bit. Maybe that's a
> > level thing or maybe it's just that I find her performance very
> > appealing. I like that style. In any case, tipping the balance more
> > toward the male part would maybe help, or maybe it would just diminish
> > the total effect. See, to really know that, I'd have to try it and I
> > wasn't there doing the mix.
>
> The goal is always mixes that travel well, that hold together across the
> extremely wide range of playback systems. Given our voices naturally,
> where the power in each lies, slight shifts of apparent relative level
> do show up on many systems.
>
> We did our best to bring it all into the ballpark, and in a room like
> Jerry Tubb's mastering sutie, one into which a lot of time/money and
> skilled effort has been invested to achieve a well-balanced acoustic
> response, we got to listen in scary detail. Tiny adjustments to the
> overall sound, on the order of a fraction of a dB here or there, were
> obvious.
I did some songs a few years back here in my house, with Cubase. What I
had for playback speakers were my band cabs ( EON's ), and headphones.
Most of the mix was easy, but not the bass. We'd make a mix then take it
out and play it in George's car. Huge differences between his Toyota car
system and my JBL's or phones ( Sennheiser mostly ). Back and forth we
went, and were never really happy with the balance. Eventually we got
tired tho :-)
So as you know, there is no perfect mix because there is no way to tell
what the playback system will sound like. Weren't the old NS10's used
because they sounded like a mid priced K-mart stereo of their era ?
I'm wondering when the standard for mixing an mp3 will be iPod earbuds ?
>
> Further, I haven't much experience yet with any of my own recent studio
> work converted to mp3's, and there are obvious differences in the
> balance of the mix at the different bitrates. Just as obviously is that
> the 24 bit 96 KHz originals offer a lot of detail that gradually
> disappears as we move down the resolution ladder.
Oh yeah, I was gonna reconfigure my stuff to 24 bit. I need to check if
that change whacks the latency adjustments out of whack. I almost forgot
about that in the job we shouldn't take panic.
I'll work on that tonight.
>
> > So I just lean back and enjoy the art as it is. Resisting the impulse to
> > suggest a bluer blue or redder red here or there. But if one of my
> > buddies ask me for thoughts on a mix, and I believed they really wanted
> > me to point out what I would have done differently, I'd oblige.
>
> I'm happy to hear what someone thinks they might have done differently.
> We all have different likes and dislikes and different approaches to
> production. Sharing those viewpoints can be productive and informative.
>
> That said it was my job to produce this, and it's finished. I have never
> engineered and/or produced a recording in which I would in retrospect
> not have chosen to do something differently.
Your stuff sounds good to me.
jim
Boyd Williamson
a7749182-2419-432f...@h2g2000vbd.googlegroups.com, "rr"
<rick...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Just can't stay away eh, nickazoid?
'Scuze me? I'd appreciate it if you left my family outta this!
Zoid
little nicky noo-noos!@noono.com ..... little nicky noo-noos!
"Boyd Williamson" <zo...@z9design.com> wrote in message
news:C73249FB.4B9AF%zo...@z9design.com...
Surely they must be used to getting left out of your life by now,
Boyd?....;p)
little nicky noo-noos!@noono.com ..... little nicky noo-noos!
>
> (Also didn't post it with the idea of starting an in-group brawl.
> Clearly, there is history here of which I am incognizant.
No biggie. This place used to be a thriving networking spot for working
musos from all over the world but all that's left is the smoking wreckage of
a once valuable resource.
Sadly any working musicians have all but departed because they couldn't
stand the stink of rr's shit, not least of which was his blatant racism and
bigotry.
I guess it's kind of ironic that a fat little lamer dj single-handedly
managed to get rid of nearly 3 dozen working musos from this forum, but hey,
stranger things have happened I suppose....;p)
What's left here now is maybe two working musos( leo and jim), "ern", an
ex-TV repairman who likes to "model" things and people, a deadbeat jailbird
dad (zoid) who can't get a gig anymore, the fat dj in question who long
since gave up trying his hand at being a soloact and instead goes dj-ing for
college kids and a usenet troll (skid) who actually gets serious responses
from what's left of a once great resource. LOL!
Anyhow hank, you know what you got on that tape of yours and you hardly need
the idiots in here giving you any "advice". Kind of telling that after
they'd all spewed their bile they all came around to admitting what I
initially said about your track i.e.. that it is gorgeous music and you and
yours deserve a round of applause for making that music.
I know you prolly wont, but if you are interested in some serious, informed
and polite discussion about music, gigging and heaps of other related topics
from the many musos who have quit this joint in disgust in the last few
years, then by all means please drop in to www.real-gigs.com and check it
out.(See below for Tom Essons recent post regarding that)
In the meantime, cheers & good luck with the record.
====
Hey all,
The real-gigs forum for working musicians (http://www.real-gigs.com)
blasted through the 20,000 post plateau yesterday. Since launching in
April of 2007 as a safe haven from the shenanigans going on in here
(you know who you are ;-) ) - the site has become a valuable resource
for gigging musicians on 5 continents.
To put that into perspective, the AMMS usenet group - a public group
available to everyone (including lot's of spammers) has less than
14,000 posts over that same period.
Besides general discussion topics, real-gigs has dedicated forums for
Hardware, Software, Variax users, Loopers, BOSE PAS, and the only
dedicated Showplay forum on the web.
So, the members of real-gigs would like to thank those regulars and
semi-regulars from AMMS that inadvertently motivated several longtime
AMMS contributors into creating what has become such an healthy
thriving resource for working musos. Cheers to you all and we wish
you all success.
If any lurkers here are interested in seeing what's going on at real-
gigs, we encourage you to stop by http://www.real-gigs.com and create
an account. If/when your membership is approved, you will have the
opportunity to be part of a vibrant global community of slightly
irreverent, sometimes eccentric, experienced professional musicians.
Cheers,
Tom
Ernie Garner
bait and responding?
Ernie
rr
wrote:
> Hey Rick, I think he's lost his edge. You think it's worth taking the
> bait and responding?
>
> Ernie
What's there to respond to? It's a steaming pile of human debris.
You know, I've spoken with some musos in the human hemorroid's area.
They said he's really as big of a douch in real life (moreso actually)
than in the virtual world. I feel sorry for the dude.
Ernie Garner
>
>You know, I've spoken with some musos in the human hemorroid's area.
>They said he's really as big of a douch in real life (moreso actually)
<ggggg> Ok, so tell me what you *really* think <gggg>
Speaking of which ...
Happy Turkey Day to everyone!
Ernie
LoDan
wrote:
Thanks Ernie, and to you as well!
Just waddled in from the wifes sisters place where the usual culinary
debauchery ensued. All that work for 15 minutes of stuffing your
face...:)
leo
Boyd Williamson
nicky noo-noos!" <..... little nicky noo-noos!@noono.com> wrote:
> ... This place used to be a thriving networking spot for working
> musos from all over the world but all that's left is the smoking wreckage of
> a once valuable resource...
With emblematic poor taste, you have posted this on an American holiday
known as Thanksgiving, a day where family and friends traditionally get
together to share a feast and give thanks for being blessed with what they
have.
In addition to being thankful for all the things that I've been blessed
with, I am especially thankful that I am not cursed with being such a poor,
pathetic, pitiful creature such as you, who, for whatever reason, has so
much pain and rage inside, that you cannot feel good about yourself unless
you're stooping lower than low to rip up anyone and everyone you can touch.
I can only imagine, with all appropriate horror, what it must be like to be
a part of your family. I'm sure the reality is much, much worse.
Apart from the expression of my sympathies for your family over your deep
psychological problems, I have no intention of picking up your diseased
gauntlet. Just go away, Nick. You've worn out your welcome here many, many
times over, and you've just made it plain that you have no intention of
doing anything else but that in the future.
"Never wrestle with a pig; you both get dirty, and the pig likes it."
Zoid
pTooner
And a happy turkey day to all. I just had a big feed at my wife's
brother's place which didn't do great things for my diet. I had lost
18 lbs, I wonder how much I gained back? Anyway, the wife's leaving
for Egypt tomorrow am with her sister and I'm going to Nashville next
weekend with my daughter. Meanwhile, I made a deal yesterday to buy
an Beechcraft Sierra to start my wander around the country thing with
in a few weeks. Life is good here, I hope the same is true for
everyone.
Gerry
Jim
> Yes, Gerry, life is good, life is great, gonna have the whole world on
> a plate. Blessings to us all on the Thanksgiving weekend. Be thankful
> we fought the war of Independence so we don't have to be bitter
> assholes like the jerks at real gigs. I am so thankful I even extended
> my blessings to the boys and "men" at the pro sound group. They are so
> full of brotherhood they may come over visit us sometime soon. Until
> then,
>
> Love Sid xxx
Life is what it is. Good sometimes, less so others, wouldn't you agree.
I'm troubled by the comment HA made a few days back about coming here
and wading into some already running fights ( however he phrased it ).
That's the nature of open forums like this.
My advice to him and others is .... you just have to be willing to
ignore the problem children. We can't make anyone stay away, and some
folks do have problems they think they can resolve by teasing, taunting
and name calling online.
Here's a clue. That stuff won't change the bad folks, they don't care
what others feel or think.
And throwing it out at the rest just hurts feelings and makes people
pull away.
Hey, maybe that's the goal ?
jim d