Led Zep song copped from Moby Grape?
Will Dockery
>
> you were wrong about which Led
> Zeppelin song has Moby Grape's Never lyric.
That's fine, I was just naming the incident from memory. I have quite a few
Moby Grape records, no Led Zeppelin, and planned to go back to the Usenet
thread where I first read about it.
This looks like a good time to do that, since the subject is fresh, again,
thanks, Cyth.
--
"Writing is creative lying." -Harlan Ellison said that.
"When cheating is for losers, and playing straight's for fools... you never
know which way to go." -I said that.
From "Black Crow's Brother" by Will Dockery & Gini Woolfolk, now playing on
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Howldog
> Cythera <cyth...@my-deja.com> wrote:
>>
>> you were wrong about which Led
>> Zeppelin song has Moby Grape's Never lyric.
>
> That's fine, I was just naming the incident from memory. I have quite a few
> Moby Grape records, no Led Zeppelin, and planned to go back to the Usenet
> thread where I first read about it.
>
> This looks like a good time to do that, since the subject is fresh, again,
> thanks, Cyth.
Since I've been Loving You, i believe, has the Moby Grape nicked lyrics.
Richard Ardini
"Will Dockery" <shado...@knology.net> wrote in message
news:1950e$4b16d0b6$d8baf760$32...@KNOLOGY.NET...
> Cythera <cyth...@my-deja.com> wrote:
>>
>> you were wrong about which Led
>> Zeppelin song has Moby Grape's Never lyric.
>
Led Zep was touring with them in '69 when
it was being performed in concert.
Richard Ardini
"Will Dockery" <shado...@knology.net> wrote in message
news:1950e$4b16d0b6$d8baf760$32...@KNOLOGY.NET...
>>
>> you were wrong about which Led
>> Zeppelin song has Moby Grape's Never lyric.
>
Ray
> "Will Dockery" <shadowvi...@knology.net> wrote in message
http://earfarm.com/features/daily-feature/monday/1820
http://www.turnmeondeadman.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=19&Itemid=29
Biggest thieves in the history of rock. Well documented and it's cost
them plenty over the years.
Will Dockery
>
> > you were wrong about which Led
> > Zeppelin song has Moby Grape's Never lyric.
No, you're wrong, really, Cyth, but that's hardly surprising... I had
the right Led Zeppelin song, but I thought maybe, the wrong Moby Grape
song. Turns out that I was right all along, sorry.
So I was half right and you're all wrong, as usual:
http://www.turnmeondeadman.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=40&Itemid=50
"...Since I've Been Loving You
Led Zeppelin: Plagiarism?
"Since I've Been Loving You" is a slow blues number on Led Zeppelin
III, which was released in 1970. The common perception of Led
Zeppelin's blues tracks is that they were plagiarized from an older
African-American artist. That is not the case with "Since I've Been
Loving You," though. On this track Robert Plant drew on the work of
Moby Grape, a roots-oriented psychedelic band from San Francisco who
were active in the late-1960s. Moby Grape's song "Never," on the 1968
album Grape Jam, is an extended blues workout with a tempo and meter
similar to "Since I've Been Loving You." More importantly, "Never"
features some of the same phrases and lyrical theme that Robert Plant
uses in "Since I've Been Loving You." Compare the opening verse of
"Never"
Working from 11:00 to 7:00 every night
Ought to make life a drag
And I know that ain't right
to the opening verse of "Since I've Been Loving You"
Working from 7:00 to 11:00 every night
It really makes life a drag
I don't think that's right.
Also, both songs include the turn of phrase "the best of fools,"
plaintive cries of "I love you, baby" and references to crying, though
the lyrics appear in somewhat altered form in "Since I've Been Love
You." This means that the opening and closing verses as well as the
bridge of "Since I've Been Loving You" draw heavily from "Never." ..."
There you have it: Moby Grape: Never. Led Zep: Since I've Been Loving
You. HTH.
> That's fine, I was just naming the incident from memory. I have quite a few
> Moby Grape records, no Led Zeppelin, and planned to go back to the Usenet
> thread where I first read about it.
>
> This looks like a good time to do that, since the subject is fresh, again,
> thanks, Cyth.
No thanks for sticking your foot in your mouth /again/, though,
Cythera.
Evil Rev Returns
1962 a Willie Dixon composition). "Babe I'm Gonna Leave Ya" was on a
Joan Baex album 2 years before the release of the 1st Zeppelin record.
I believe that I've heard the "Stairway To Heaven" intro in some
Celtic pieces.
ER
Paul Heslop
Joan Baex... who she? :O)
--
Paul (we break easy)
-------------------------------------------------------
Stop and Look
http://www.geocities.com/dreamst8me/
Will Dockery
wrote:
Yeah, they're regular Dale Houstmen on the "plagiarism & collage era"
Dale writes about.
"It is okay to steal..." -Dale Houstman
--
"Red Lipped Stranger & other stories" by Will Dockery:
http://www.myspace.com/willdockery
Evil Rev Returns
Joan Baex... who she? :O)
She used to hang out w/Bub Dylam :) :)
ER
No Typos, USA
Howldog
AND the lick Zeppelin used for Whole Lotta Love was a derivative of Dixons
original lick for You Need Love as well. You cant get busted for that, but,
they eventually got busted hard for stealing Dixons lyric. Settled out of
court, I believe.
The arrangement Page "borrowed" for Babe I'm Gonna Leave you wasnt
Baez's... it was somebody else's, cant remember, fairports? thats probably
wrong
The initial few bars of Pages intro to Stairway to Heroin is almost
certainly stolen from Spirits' "Taurus"... but thats only about 15 seconds
of a 7 minute song. They sure as hell didnt steal the rest of the song from
anybody....
Will Dockery
>
> "Babe I'm Gonna Leave Ya" was on a Joan Baex
>
> Joan Baex... who she? :O)
Three guesses... heh.
But back to the subject, Led Zeppelin borrowing from old (and usually)
public domain sources in the folk & blues tradition are very different
from Houstmanizing material from their more obscure peers, such as
Moby Grape. A credit line to Skip Spence et al (MG had five
songwriters in the band & I'm not sure who was credited with the song
Led Zep swiped just now) would not only have been, imo, a nice
gesture, but a source of some much-needed cash, since by this time
Moby Grape had already fallen on hard times.
Y'all get the difference in this song and the others Led Zeppelin
borrowed before and after? Or maybe there are more, even less well-
known examples?
--
New poetry & music recordings by Will Dockery
http://www.myspace.com/willdockery
> --
Ray
Babe I'm Gonna Leave You was written by Anne Bredon and lifted
wholesale by LZ.
Check the links in my previous post, with an enumeration of the 10
worst examples of their plagerism.
Ismael Strom
> I believe that I've heard the "Stairway To Heaven" intro in some
> Celtic pieces.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Randy_California
"It has been said that Jimmy Page plagiarized Randy's guitar part from
"Taurus" on the first Spirit album, when he wrote Led Zeppelin's
"Stairway to Heaven" although this is denied by Page. However, Led
Zeppelin was the opening act on the road for Spirit in 1968 which has
further fueled this controversy. In 1996, in the liner notes for the
reissue of Spirit's first album, Randy California stated "people
always ask me why 'Stairway to Heaven' sounds exactly like 'Taurus,'
which was released two years earlier. I know Led Zeppelin also played
'Fresh Garbage' in their live set. They opened up for us on their
first American tour".[4] Since "Fresh Garbage" is a song from the same
album that includes the song "Taurus", this only adds to the
controversy that Led Zeppelin was at least aware of the song."
Will Dockery
Wow... the Plant & Page songwriting team sure have some sticky
fingers, eh?
ebsound
I know This will stir up stuff a bit but the two tracks really don't
sound much alike to me, other than they both have a descending bass
line.
--
ebsound
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Will Dockery
> On 2009-12-08 13:41:36 -0500, Will Dockery said:
> > On Dec 8, 1:45 am, Ismael Strom <ismaelst...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> On Dec 6, 9:40 am, Evil Rev Returns <evilrevisb...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> >>> I believe that I've heard the "Stairway To Heaven" intro in some
> >>> Celtic pieces.
>
> >>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Randy_California
>
> >> "It has been said that Jimmy Page plagiarized Randy's guitar part from
> >> "Taurus" on the first Spirit album, when he wrote Led Zeppelin's
> >> "Stairway to Heaven" although this is denied by Page. However, Led
> >> Zeppelin was the opening act on the road for Spirit in 1968 which has
> >> further fueled this controversy. In 1996, in the liner notes for the
> >> reissue of Spirit's first album, Randy California stated "people
> >> always ask me why 'Stairway to Heaven' sounds exactly like 'Taurus,'
> >> which was released two years earlier. I know Led Zeppelin also played
> >> 'Fresh Garbage' in their live set. They opened up for us on their
> >> first American tour".[4] Since "Fresh Garbage" is a song from the same
> >> album that includes the song "Taurus", this only adds to the
> >> controversy that Led Zeppelin was at least aware of the song."
>
> > Wow... the Plant & Page songwriting team sure have some sticky
> > fingers, eh?
>
> I know This will stir up stuff a bit but the two tracks really don't
> sound much alike to me, other than they both have a descending bass
> line.
Yeah, in the case of Led Zep's Houstmanizing Moby Grape, the swipe was
mainly lyrics, best I can figure... line-for-line swiping...
--
"Red Lipped Stranger & other stories" by Will Dockery:
http://www.myspace.com/willdockery
> --
Grinner
"Howldog" <how...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:mx2mx28p7s8y$.1w72dc6ixtlzt.dlg@40tude.net...
that Am G F progression is pretty common though and sounds like all along
the watchtower to my ears
those lyrics "if there's a bustle ..." Page claims to have given to the
song. they are also the ones people hear strange things in when played
backwards. the may queen was head of some pagan spring festival