John Paul Jones interview with Steven Rosen
Mackenzie
1977 some time ago. Here is the other interview with John Paul Jones
(He did two interviews that day):
gp: what was the impetus behind your becoming a bass player?
jpj: i used to play piano when i was younger, and there was a rock and
roll band forming at school when i was 14, but they didn't want a
piano player - all they wanted was drums or bass. i thought, "i can't
get the drums on the bus." bass looked easy - four strings, no chords
- - so i took it up. and it was easy; it wasn't too bad at all. i took
it up before guitar, which i suppose is sort of interesting. before i
got a real 4-string, my father had a ukulele banjo, a little one, and
i had that strung up like a bass, but it didn't quite have the bottom
that was required. actually, my father didn't want to have to sign a
guarantor to back me in the payments for a bass. he said, "don't
bother with it; take up the tenor saxophone. in two years the bass
guitar will never be heard of again." i said, "no, dad, i really want
one; there's work for me." he said, "ah there's work?" and i got a
bass right away.
gp: what was your first?
jpj: oh, it was a pig. it had a neck like a tree trunk. it was a
solidbody dallas bass guitar with a single cutaway. it sounded all
right, though, and it was good for me because i developed very strong
fingers. i had idea about setting up instruments then, so i just took
it home from the shop. i had an amplifier with a 10" speaker - oh, it
was awful. it made all kinds of farting noises. and then i had a
converted television, you know, one of those big old standup
televisions with the amp in the bottom and a speaker where the screen
should be. i ended up giving myself double hernias. bass players had
the hardest time because they always had to cope with the biggest
piece of equipment. it never occurred to me when i was deciding
between that and drums that i'd have to lug a bass amp.
gp: what kind of music were you playing in that first band?
jpj: shadows, little richard, jerry lee lewis stuff. i started
doubling on piano. we didn't have a drummer at first, because we never
could find one. that happened to another bass player, larry graham,
sly stone's bass player. he started off in a band with no drummer,
which is how he got that percussive style. you've got a lot to make up
for once the lead guitar takes a solo because there's only you left.
you've got to make a lot of noise. we got a drummer after a while whom
i taught would you believe. i've never played drums in my life.
gp: that must have definitely had an influence on your playing.
jpj: i suppose it must have. i don't like bass players who go boppity
boppity bop all over the neck; you should stay around the bottom and
provide that end of the group. i work very closely with the drummer;
it's very important.
gp: how long did that first band last?
jpj: not very long. i found a band with a drummer. this band also came
along with really nice looking guitars. and i thought,"oh, they must
be great." they had burns guitars, so, i got myself one too - the one
with three pickups and a tru-voice amplifier. we all had purple band
jackets and white shoes, and i thought, "this is it; this is the big
time." but as soon as i got out of school i played at american air
force bases, which was good training, plus they always had great
records in the jukebox. that was my introduction to the black music
scene, when very heavy gentleman would come up insisting on "night
train" eight times an hour.
gp: what was the first really professional band you were in?
jpj: it was with jet harris and tony meehan (bassist and drummer
formerly with the shadows); that was when i was 17, i suppose. and
those were the days when they used to scream all the way through the
show. it was just like now, really, where you have to make a mad dash
for the limos at the end of the night - make a sort of terrible
gauntlet. in the days before roadies you'd have to drag around your
own gear, so we all invested in a roadie. we thought we owed it to
ourselves, and this bloke was marvelous. he did everything: drove the
wagon, lugged the gear, did the lights - - the whole thing.
gp: what kinds of bass were you using with harris and meehan?
jpj: oh, i got my first fender then. i lusted after this jazz bass in
lewisham, and it cost me about $250, i think. it was the new one.
they'd just changed the controls, and i used that bass up until the
last (1975) tour, and then she had to go. she was getting unreliable
and rattling a lot and i had to leave her home this time.
gp: what followed your work with that band?
jpj: i got into sessions. i thought,"i've had enough of the road,"
bought myself a dog, and didn't work for six months. then i did start
up again. i played in other silly bands. i remember that jet harris
and tony meehan band- john mclaughlin joined on rhythm guitar. it was
the first time i'd met him, and it was hilarious. here he was going d
minor to g to a minor. that was my first introduction to jazz when he
came along, because we'd all get to the gig early and have a blow. oh,
that was something, first meeting him. and then i joined a couple of
other bands with him for a while, rhythm and blues bands.
gp: do you remember the first session you ever did?
jpj: not much of it. it was in decca number 2 (studio in london). i
was late, and i suddenly realized how bad my reading was. there was
another bass player there with a stand-up bass,and i was just there to
provide the click. it was nearly my last session.
gp: who were some of the people you were doing sessions with?
jpj: all kinds of silly people - i used to do calls with (british
vocalist) tom jones, cathy kirby, dusty springfield.
gp: the rolling stones and donovan, too, didn't you?
jpj: i only did one stones session, really. i just did the strings -
they already had the track down. it was "she's a rainbow"(their
satanic majesties request). and then the first donovan session was a
shambles; it was awful. it was 'sunshine superman', and the arranger
had got it all wrong, so i thought, being the opportunist that i was,
"i can do better than that" and actually went up to the producer. he
came around and said "is there anything we can do to sort of save the
session?" and i piped up,"well look, how about if i play straight?" -
because i had a part which went sort of ooowooooo (imitates a slide up
the neck) every now and again, and the other bass player sort of did -
wooooo (imitates downward slide) down below, and then there was some
funny congas that were in and out of time. and i said, "how about if
we just sort of play it straight; get the drummer to do this and
that?"
gp: how did the session go?
jpj: the session came off, and i was immediately hired as the arranger
by (producer) mickie most, whom i loved working with. he was a clever
man. i used to do herman's hermits and all that. i mean they were
never there; you could do a whole album in a day. and it was great fun
and a lot of laughs. i did all of lulu's stuff and all of mickie's
artists. i did one jeff beck single, and he's never spoken to me
since. it was "hi ho silver lining."i did the arrangement for it and
played bass. then we had "mellow yellow" for donovan, which we argued
about for hours because they didn't like my arrangement at all, not at
all.mickie stood by me; he said, "i like the arrangement, i think it's
good." it wasn't donovan - he didn't mind either - but he had so many
people around him saying, "hey, this isn't you." but he sold a couple
million on it, didn't he?
gp: on most of these sessions you were playing bass?
jpj: yeah, the fender jazz. it was a '61 because it was new the year i
bought it. amps were murder; amps were always murder. we were all
right with jet harris and tony meehan because we used vox amps.,and i
had the big t-60 which was, in fact, a forerunner of all these things
we use nowadays with that big reflex cabinet and a little transistor
top. it sounded great, but we had to have an arrangement with vox to
replace them every couple of weeks because they would not last any
longer. suddenly there would be an horrible noise, and the thing would
just sit there looking at you, so you'd just wheel another one on.
basically the problems haven't stopped; i can't find an amp that i
love, and they've stopped making it. i can't win.
gp: was the "hurdy gurdy man" session when you first met jimmy page?
jpj: no, i'd met jimmy on sessions before. it was always big jim and
little jim - big jim sullivan - and little jim and myself and the
drummer. apart from group sessions where he'd play solos and stuff
like that, page always ended up on rhythm guitar because he couldn't
read too well. he could read chord symbols and stuff, but he'd have to
do anything they'd ask when he walked into a session. but i used to
see a lot of him just sitting there with an acoustic guitar sort of
raking out chords. i always thought the bass player's life was much
more interesting in those days, because nobody really knew how to
write for bass. so they used to say, "we'll give you the chord sheet
and get on with it." even on the worst sessions, you could have a
little runaround. but that was good; i would have hated to have sat
there on acoustic guitar.
gp: how long did you do sessions?
jpj: three or four years, on and off. then i thought i was going to
get into arranging, because it seemed that sessions and running about
was much too silly. i started running about and arranging about 40 or
50 things a month. i ended up just putting a blank piece of score
paper in front of me and just sitting there and starting at it. then i
joined led zeppelin, i suppose, after my missus said to me, "will you
stop moping around the house? why don't you join a band or something?"
and i said, " there's no bands i want to join. what are you talking
about?" and she said, " well, look, i think it was in 'disc'. jimmy
page is forming a group" - he had left the yardbirds - "why don't you
give him a ring?" so i rang him up and said, "jim,how are you doing?
have you got a group yet?" he said, i haven't got anybody yet." and i
said, "well, if you want a bass player give me a ring." and he said,"
all right, i'm going to see this singer Terry Reid told me about, and
he might know a drummer as well. I'll call you when i've seen what
they're like." he went up there, saw Robert Plant, and said, "this guy
is really something."
gp: what was your original name?
jpj: we started under the name the new yardbirds because nobody would
book us under anything else. we rehearsed an act, an album, and a tour
in about three weeks, and it took off. the first time, we all met in
this little room just to see if we could even stand each other. it was
wall-to-wall amplifiers and terrible, all old. robert (plant) had
heard i was a session man. and he was wondering what was going to turn
up - some old bloke with a pipe? so jimmy said, " well, we're all
here. what are we going to play?" and i said, "i don't know. what do
you know?" and jimmy said, "do you know a number called 'the train
kept a-rollin'?" i told him, "no." and he said, "it's easy, just g to
a." he counted it out, and the room just exploded, and we said,
"right, we're on, this is it, this is going to work!" and we just sort
of built it up from there. "dazed and confused" (led zeppelin) came in
because jimmy knew that, but i could never get the sequence right for
years; it kept changing all the time with different parts, and i was
never used to that. i'm used to having the music there. i could never
remember - in fact, i'm still the worst in the band for remembering
anything. and the group jokes about it: "jonesy always gets the titles
wrong and the sequences wrong." even now i have a piece of paper i
stuck on the top of the mellotron which says: "kashmir - remember the
coda!"
gp: what were some of your earlier amplifiers?
jpj: i've used everything from a lousy made-up job to a great, huge,
top valve (tube) amp. We started off in a deal with rickenbacker where
we had these awful, awful rickenbacker amps; they were so bad. our
first tour was a shambles. for about a year i never even heard the
bass. they said, "we've designed the speaker cabinet for you," and i
said, "let me see it. whats it got in it?" it had one 30 inch speaker!
i said, "all right, stand it up there along side whatever else i've
got and ill use it." i plugged it in, and in a matter of five seconds
i blew it up. i thought the bloke was having me on; I said, " there's
no such thing as a 30 inch speaker!" and i had to take the back off
because i couldn't believe it. then we met the guy from univox, and he
came up with a bass stack which unfortunately didn't last the night.
but while it was going, it was the most unbelievable sound i've ever
heard. it was at the nassau coliseum in new york, i remember, and the
bass filled the hall. it was so big, it couldn't have lasted. i don't
think ill come across anything that sounded like that. but as i said,
three numbers and wheel the acoustics out again. i used two or three
360 standard acoustics for quite a long time; they served me well.
gp: you used the jazz bass until just recently then?
jpj: yea. oh, i got a hold of a very nice old gibson violin bass
(pictured in the little cut-out wheel on the cover of led zeppelin 3).
that was nice too; it's not stage worthy, but it gives a beautiful
warm sound. i don't like gibson basses generally because they feel all
rubbery; i like something you can get your teeth into. the violin bass
was the only gibson that was as heavy as a fender to play, but still
had that fine gibson sound. i used it on led zeppelin 3, and i've used
it every now and again, usually when im tracking a bass after i've
done keyboards for the main track. the one i have went through little
richard's band and then through james brown's band, and it arrived in
england. in fact, i saw it on an old movie clip of little richard. it
was probably about a '48 or '50 or something like that; it was the
original one. actually, i've got an old '52 telecaster bass. i used
that on stage for a while, for "black dog" and things like that.
gp: what is your bass set up now?
jpj: rick turner of alembic made me an alembic bass, and its
beautiful. it has standard alembic circuitry and is extremely
versatile: two pickups, with a hum-canceling system. it runs from a
power supply; its power assisted somehow with a preamp, which fits
into the guitar. i've got l.e.d.'s (for fret markers) all up the side
- i love those - and its got a full two-octave neck. in a shop, i came
across an 8-string before this one, and when i found out it was
alembic, i rang up the bloke and said, "look, what else do you do?" i
think i'll get him to make me a fretless next. last i heard, he was
working on some idea with a stainless-steel fingerboard.
gp: what does two full octaves mean to you as a player?
jpj: it gives you so much more room, and there isn't any position on
the instrument that sounds off - you can use it all. im finding out
all sorts of things; you can never get up there with a fender.
gp: is it easier or harder to play than the fender?
jpj: its much more fun, and there's a lot more to do on it. when your
intonation is true on all four strings all the way up, you suddenly
realize you can play chords, and the notes are clear. its a whole
different way of playing. it definitely has changed my technique. i
can now get above the fifth fret, which always has been somewhat of a
mystery. i still use the fender fretless because i need a fretless on
stage. i don't particularly like the instrument, but it's better than
any of the other ones they have.
gp: was the fretless hard to get used to?
jpj: no. you think its going to be, but its not. i also use a stand-up
electric bass on stage; i think its an arco. there was a spate of them
came out in the middle '60s - italian-made basses - and i bought it
for fun.
gp: do you play it on record?
jpj: no its no where near accurate enough, and its too hard to play;
you can't do anything with it. since i've got a bit more power back in
my fingers now, i can begin to go a little bit further up the neck.
you couldn't use it for more than one number.
gp: what kind of amps do you use?
jpj: the one they don't make anymore, g.m.t.600b (made by gallien-
krueger), which has since been replaced by the 400b which bears (sic)
no resemblence at all. but im going to ring them up, too, and ask if
they'll please make me another of the old type, because it is
excellent. it has a curious kind of shelving on the filter system. i
think they call it "contour." its very ballsy for a transistorized
amp. maybe the alembic is a little to hot for it, but i might be able
to work something out. this is just the head; i use cerwin-vega
cabinets, which are excellent. i use just the one top and two
cabinets, each of which i think has one 15 inch and one 10 inch
speaker. its loud, right? there's a lot of power, proper power.
gp: you like solid-state amps for bass then?
jpj: yes, i find them a bit tighter than valve amps, really. i dont
think there so good for guitar. the sound tends to spread a lot and
you don't get the definition. i prefer more of a recorded sound on
stage.
gp: your stage and studio equipment are the same?
jpj: yes, although you really can't say that because in the studio i
like to mix direct and amp. with the fender, the direct was never that
good, but the alembic can go direct, and it sounds really good.
gp: what settings do you use to produce the best response?
jpj: i usually set the amp in the middle. we have to run it a little
lower than i like because, as i say, the alembic is a bit hot. but
that guitar is going to be more fun to record with, as far as
setttings are concerned, because there's a lot of variations in tone
and all sorts of things you can do. i haven't used the alembic for
recording yet. i used the 8-string on 'presence', but the 4-string was
made after that. im still using the fender on the live album (the song
remains the same).
gp: do you ever use a pick when you play?
jpj: yes, when the situation demands it; on the 8-string its awful
messy with your fingers. on 'the song remains the same', i use a pick
to get that snap out of the instrument. its fun; you play different.
if i was just playing straight bass, i'd use fingers. when i first
started, i always used my fingers.
gp: what kind of a pick and strings do you use?
jpj: herco gray and rotosound wire-wounds. i got into them with the
alembic because i never used to like the round-wound strings. on the
fender i used rotosound, but they were flat-wound, and i've never
liked the string noise. but the alembic just demands you use something
a bit brighter; otherwise you're doing the instrument a disservice. i
first put round-wound strings on the telecaster bass because it
demanded that. i tried flat-wounds on the alembic, and sort of lost
half the instrument. plus the wire-wounds seem to fill out better if
jimmy's soloing; they make more of a guitar sound on the alembic than
a bass sound. but the alembic's got enough low end that it fills out
the spectrum. i think it's going to be alright.
gp: you don't use any pedals or boosters?
jpj: no, i never have; what can you do with the bass anyway? you can
go wah-wah-wah, or you can phase it and make it even muddier than it
usually does. i think im more into the musical side of things; i don't
use synthesizers because they always sound like synthesizers.
gp: how has playing with jimmy page for the last nine years styled
your playing?
jpj: thats hard. i play a lot looser than i used to. for instance,
somebody like (who bassist) john entwistle is more of a lead
instrument man than i am. i tend to work closer with bonzo (drummer
john bonham), i think. but then again, i don't play that much bass on
stage anymore, what with the pianos and the mellotron. i'll always say
i'm a bass player, though.
gp: how do you develop a bass part?
jpj: you put in what is correct and what's necessary. i always did
like a good tune on the bass. for an example, listen to "what is and
what should never be" then (on led zeppelin 2). the role of a bassist
is hard to define. you can't play chords, so you have a harmonic role:
picking and timing notes. you'll suggest a melodic or a harmonic
pattern, but i seem to be changing anyway toward more of a lead style.
the alembic is doing it; i play differently on it. but i try to never
forget my role as a bass player: to play the bass and not mess around
too much at the top all the time. you've got to have somebody down
there, and that's the most important thing. the numbers must sound
right. they must work right; they must be balanced.
gp: do you practice?
jpj: no, in a word. i fool around on piano, but bass i never practice.
although, again with the alembic, i'm beginning to feel, "wouldn't it
be nice to have it in the room?" it really makes you want to play
more, which is fantastic.
gp: who do you listen to?
jpj: i don't. i used to listen to a lot of jazz bass players once, but
jazz has changed so much now its hardly recognizable. i listened to a
lot of tenor sax players: sonny rollins, john coltrane, and all those
people. bass players? scott la faro, who died; he used to be with
(late jazz pianist) bill evans. excellent player. i liked the late
jazz bassist paul chambers, and ray brown, and charlie mingus, of
course. i'm not too keen on the lead bass style of some players. paul
mccartney i've always respected; he puts the notes in the right place
at the right time. he knows what he's about.
gp: there's nothing you'd like to do outside of zeppelin in an
instrumental context?
jpj: i always get the feeling i'd like to write a symphony. i like all
music. i like classical music a lot - ravel, bach, of course. mozart i
could never stand, though to play it on the piano is great fun. if
bach had ever come across the bass guitar, he would have loved it.
rock and roll is the only music left where you can improvise. i don't
know what's happened to jazz; it has really disappointed me. i guess
they started playing rock and roll.
gp: so you're able to continually experiment in zeppelin and expand
your playing?
jpj: yes, absolutely. i wouldn't be without zeppelin for the world.
Grinner
"Mackenzie" <jade...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1193161352....@y27g2000pre.googlegroups.com...
"if bach had ever come across the bass guitar, he would have loved it". LOL
!