Art Nouveau and Led Zeppelin
L'Crowe
Greg
--
`> a crowe by any other color is still a crowe `>
L'Crowe
carol wrote:
> ECarnabySt wrote in message
> <19990123202118...@ng-fv1.aol.com>...
> >>Well? Anyone care to start this conversation up? If you don't, I will.
> >>
> >>Greg
> >
> >Yikes. I like art nouveau, but...I'm thinking...how can I compare it to
> Led
> >Zeppelin? I'd have better luck comparing Zep with Dadaism (seriously!)
> >
> >Let me sit on that one...
> >
> >Rebecca
> >...................................................................
> >I have not yet begun to fight.
> > 憂ohn Paul Jones, on the Bonhomme Richard,
> > Sept. 23, 1779
>
> Didn't I once see an article in a Home and Gardens
> or some magazine of that ilk which did a feature
> on Jimmy Page's house? I had forgotten about this
> but I'm pretty sure it said he was really big into the English
> Arts and Crafts movement which was around the same time?
> Somebody help me out here. I could be hallucinating.
>
> this is probably not what you are talking about, right?
>
> carol
L'Crowe
I will elaborate on this more once I have had a chance to review some artists
and motifs in particular, but if I might describe the thread in general... Art
Nouveau, which started in France, was basically a reaction against the cold
alien heart of industrialism. It sought to embrace it while wrapping it in a
veneer of verisimilitude. It adorned common public works of wrought iron with
the decorations one would expect to find in nature. Telephone poles might
morph into great grasshopers, gates might appear like stylized shrubbery, or
dual-door grating might appear like two wings of a butterfly. A lot of this
was influence from the Asia.
Implicit in all this stuff was an underlying discontentment with the world of
cold rational thought. They sought to look outside, inside themselves,
anywhere but the conscious world, giving rise to various kinds of symbolic and
spiritual thought. Much of this art recessed into bourgeoise (like me!)
decoration, but at its heart, we find development ultimately into art deco,
which was more linear, a pull more towards the rational/mechanistic perhaps,
and then to someone like Frank Lloyd Wright, the architect. His style is more
Art Deco, but the feelings of transmutation between the inner and outer
reticent in his designs shows the deep spirituality he brought to the
architectural landscape.
We come to someone like Page. He's into astrological signs, spiritualism
('Satan' to our friends on the far Right), a certain empathy with nature and
form...he's one of the most styliized persons the 20th century has produced,
his symbols, his guitar tunings, the whole bag is a rejection of commonplace
20th century reality and a symbolic discourse on the sublime....ethereal.
I consider myself to be a cold-hearted technocrat. I'll 'believe it when I see
it', and I am a computer programmer. I make 'things' happen. Hendrix is at
the complete opposite of the spectrum. Sometimes he sounds half-baked, but he
is a committed spiritualist. The word doesn't carry much weight these days.
Well, Page is a spiritualist too. Again, in all the Eddie Van Halen guitar
euphoria of the 80s, people forgot the intangibles of another existence beyond
the six strings and 'precision'. Page took us there.
And I guess I wonder if anyone still *does* remember laughter, does anyone take
the spirituality side seriously? I know Stryder believes in UFOs. But how
much do people weight spirituality in their common currency? And what do you
think Page's antecedents might be in Western Art. I think he was influenced by
Crowley, who was influenced by Blake, who was related to the Pre-Raphaelites,
which was a late 19th century movement founded in spirituality. Blake's stuff
seems more like the Michelangelo frescos, whereas other pre-Raphaelites tended
to draw stuff that looked very real, but the images were supernatural.
Yum....I like that stuff.
Greg
McMahon wrote:
> L'Crowe wrote in message <36AA46C6...@ix.netcom.com>...
> >Well? Anyone care to start this conversation up? If you don't, I will.
>
> I speak French, and I still don't know what the fuck "Art Nouveau" is. Some
> band???
>
> --
> Murph
McMahon
Christie Reimer
wrote:
>Well? Anyone care to start this conversation up? If you don't, I will.
Okay, providing Mr. Nouveau doesn't mind if I talk about him! The
*last* time I pissed off a French gentleman in the NG, it got pretty
ugly! (Hi, 'Lecobra'!) ;)
Seriously, now--I love the Art Nouveau school of thought, and I love
Led Zeppelin, so it's easy for me to "ramble on" about either. But I
don't think I associate the design genre *specifically* with Zep; it's
more the whole Sixties' culture.
When you look at it, from its inception around the turn of the
century, Art Nouveau was all about *nature* and sensuality. The whole
basis of its design was flowers and vines and leaves and sinuous
curves and beautiful colors. The style wasn't supposed to look like
anyone designed it; it was supposed to feel as though it "grew" there
naturally. It was amazing how the whole notion caught fire and
artists and craftspeople from all over the world were able to produce
works with the same type of "feeling." (The time period was also one
when people of money had access to opiates and laudanum and the like,
and I've wondered if those elements didn't play at least a small part
in the designers' "creativity.")
Art Nouveau flourished [pun acknowledged] for a number of years and
was then supplanted by Art Deco--which was also cool, but far more
"contrived." The lines became geometric and the preferred colors
black and white. Especially in America Art Nouveau was suddenly
passe--it was as if the "fancified" swirls and flora and fauna just
didn't belong in its brave new setting of industrialized glory.
Then, in the late Sixties, the people who were at the vanguard of a
"new" artistic style (in particular, the poster artists) rediscovered
Art Nouveau and gave it a rebirth, though now in a very specialized
area. (Unlike its first incarnation, the worlds of architecture and
furniture design and the like did not embrace the style.) It was
almost bound to happen. The whole hippie movement was a return to
nature, and to less-structured and less-regimented lifestyles. Take
the idea of paganism, with its elements of nature, and naked people
with long, flowing hair, and free love--and add to that the element of
LSD, which created a subculture enthralled with beautiful colors and
flowing forms--and the resurgence of interest in the Art Nouveau style
becomes a given.
But, to associate the style in particular with Led Zeppelin--hmmm.
There were of course posters announcing concert appearances that were
done in Art Nouveau-type lettering and artwork, and the lyrics to
"Stairway" on the sleeve are in what might be considered a *sort* of
AN style, but I can't come up with a lot more than that. Greg, care
to elaborate on what exactly made you link one to the other?
<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
"The cup is raised, the toast is made yet again
One voice is clear above the din
Proud *Christiane one word my will to sustain
For me the clouds once more do spin."
Lyrics from "All My Love"
*apologies to Robert for the name switch!
<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
carol
>>
IOPan AUM
>We come to someone like Page. He's into astrological signs, spiritualism
Spiritualism? It always struck me that Page was more inclined, if not
infatuated, towards
Thelema and redundant Crowleyanity... Thelemic tenets lucidly oppose those
concepts that
coexist with spiritualism. In succinct clarification, when LaVey Satanism
(which was assembled
and emerged years after Crowley's demise) is excluded, Thelema is the sole
system implicitly
opposing Wicca, neo-Paganism and pseudo-Hinduism, even going into the extents
of ascribing them as a more oppressive case of Catholicism. Hypocrisy is
intimidating... nevertheless, I cannot regard it as inane.
>('Satan' to our friends on the far Right),
Pan...
>a certain empathy with nature and
>form...he's one of the most styliized persons the 20th century has produced,
>his symbols, his guitar tunings, the whole bag is a rejection of commonplace
>20th century reality and a symbolic discourse on the sublime....ethereal.
I am obliged to cite this... He has many diversities as well as contradictions
to his art, rendering it
superfluously averse at times. Furthermore, it is abundantly clear that his
originality was acquired
by a diligent and rather extensive scrutiny of certain aspects omnipresent in
music.
>
>Crowley, who was influenced by Blake, who was related to the
>Pre-Raphaelites,
>which was a late 19th century movement founded in spirituality.
Crowley was never eluded impaling late 19th century spiritualism and its
subsidiaries on his
remorseless yet attentively deliberated scorn. His roots were rather in the mid
19th century occult
revival provoked by Eliphas Levi, whom he arrogantly adored. Moreover, Rabelais
became a
subsequent influence on him which perhaps prevailed him towards the creation of
the Law of
Thelema, not devoid of due improvement and contemplation on the maxim and
notion "Do what thou
wilt".
Perhaps MacGregor Mathers is growing perplexed and penitent in his grave.
93 93/93
Thelemically yours,
A.'.L.'.V.'.
L'Crowe
Nouveau thing. Given your familiarity with Page, what do you think there was
within him that found Thelema (whatever that is) so appealing? Is there any
particular book or web page that you might recommend to a novice such as me to
learn more? And lastly, if you don't mind my asking, how do you come by this
knowledge? It is rare to find a Led Zeppelin fan who knows so much about this
particular avenue.
Thanks again,
Greg
IOPan AUM wrote:
--
Blooz7
well known Nouveau style, used on the Paris Metro. You can find a font for PC's
called "metropolitan" that is similar. HOTH seems very Art Nouveau-ish to me
IMO(in album art and sound):
"idea of paganism",-No Quarter
" with its elements of nature",- The Rain Song
" and naked people with long, flowing hair", -The cover art
" beautiful colors and flowing form"- The cover and the music.
There is even some Glasgow School and Vienna Seccesion influence in the HOTH
typeface. Both movements were contemporaries with Nouveau. These styles for
some reason go well with Zeppelin on a graphic design basis. Who knows if
this was just what the Hipgnosis designers were into or if Jimmy had any input
("What's this gonna cost?...oh wait, Atlantic's payin for it, go crazy")
Anyone interested in seeing what these styles look like, try searching around
for artists like Alphonse Mucha, Aubrey Beardsley, Charles Rennie Mackintosh,
Koloman Moser, and Alfred Roller.
Art school book lernin' finally payin off.
Dan
blo...@aol.co_m
rei...@idcomm.com (Christie Reimer) wrote
mask
>Okay, providing Mr. Nouveau doesn't mind if I talk about him! The
>*last* time I pissed off a French gentleman in the NG, it got pretty
>ugly! (Hi, 'Lecobra'!) ;)
My memory has always been poor and I am too lazy to go and check, but wasn't
"Lecobra" a French lady?
Hideki - woo PC with a.m.l-z spread like ....
--
- No Spam: remove ".Abyss" from the address to reply. -
Tony Russell
carol wrote in message <
>
>Didn't I once see an article in a Home and Gardens
>or some magazine of that ilk which did a feature
>on Jimmy Page's house? I had forgotten about this
>but I'm pretty sure it said he was really big into the English
>Arts and Crafts movement which was around the same time?
>Somebody help me out here. I could be hallucinating.
>
>this is probably not what you are talking about, right?
>
He at least used to own a house in High Street Kensington which was designed
by William Burgess for himself, a gothic revivalist architect.
The house and its decoration was quite scary. Not all of the furniture
remains in the house, some of it is in a small museum in Bedford. Burgess'
bed is there, probably because it would be too small for anyone who wasn't
the same shape as him, about four feet tall and five feet wide.
Burgess was a friend of Edward Burne-Jones, a post-Pre-Raphaelite painter.
Some drawings by E B-J of Burgess are in the museum, including one of him in
that very bed.
The Arts and Crafts movement in this country was led by people like William
Morris, another friend of Burne-Jones, and the gothic, was one of their
guiding principles.
I've always thought that Jimmy Page's early stage costumes, with the hair
and the fabrics, was quite Art Nouveau in style. Richard Cole's book claims
that he and Peter Grant used to call Page "The Old Girl". I can believe that
of Cole, but I've hoped that Grant didn't treat his star earner like that.
Art Nouveau also incorporated some Celtic influences, especially in
jewellery etc., which is in common with LZ presentation. I think that LZ's
own quintessential style was a kind of nuclear-powered nouveau.
TonyR
DJ
You of all people asking about another person's gender???
DJ
(I enjoyed the suspense while it lasted...)
mask wrote in message <78hb8v$oml$2...@mendelevium.btinternet.com>...
L'Crowe
so many of you know as much or more than me about the Pre-Raphaelites, Morris,
and the other strands that Led up to Led Zeppelin.
Notwithstanding IOPanAUM's great post about Crowleyanism, which is really the
tour-de-force on the thread, I was still deep inside convinced that, whatever
the particulars of Page's philosophical leanings, in style there is still a debt
owed to the Art Nouveau and other trends. At least in terms of the 'return to
nature', which was as Christie Reimer said, prevalent at the time anyway, in the
hippy culture and art. I think Zeppelin stylized it even more.
I am a guitarist, and I love discussing tunings and such, but I am just as
happy, and quitre eager at this point, to draw a parallel from LZ to the world
at large, whether it be historical events or broader art movements. I think a
band of LZ's depth cannot escape this kind of analysis because they did touch so
many subliminal emotions and thoughts.
Greg
Tony Russell wrote:
--
Christie Reimer
<Konno...@btinternet.com> wrote:
>Christie Reimer wrote in message <36aa5c92...@news.newsguy.com>...
>>Okay, providing Mr. Nouveau doesn't mind if I talk about him! The
>>*last* time I pissed off a French gentleman in the NG, it got pretty
>>ugly! (Hi, 'Lecobra'!) ;)
>
>
>My memory has always been poor and I am too lazy to go and check, but wasn't
>"Lecobra" a French lady?
Run, Hideki! The fangs will land in *you* next! No, Lecobra is very
much a male! (Actually, we settled the misunderstanding via e-mail,
and he's a great guy. He's probably not around, or he'd have laughed
at the above reference.)
IOPan AUM
> I had barked up the wrong tree with the Art
>Nouveau thing
Not at all... I have only elucidated on a perhaps more remote influence on
Page. I certainly don't dissipate Art Nouveau, as its effects are almost
blatantly obvious in conceptual music of Zeppelin.
>Given your familiarity with Page, what do you think there was
>within him that found Thelema (whatever that is) so appealing?
Such exquisite sarcasm <G>. Perhaps he has seen Aleister Crowley's cutout in
the cover of Beatles' Sgt. Pepper album. Nevertheless, in a less impeding
approach, I have apprehended that the uncanny independence promoted in the
religion (or philosophy, as many may call it) of Thelema is exceptionally
compelling for a typical Aquarian age musician -unless your name happen to be
Phil Keaggy.
> Is there any
>particular book or web page that you might recommend to a novice such as me
>to
>learn more?
I admire your inclination towards research, provided that if it is devoid of
satire -which I never abhor. Just in case it may be of your profit:
http://www.crl.com/~thelema/home.html
> And lastly, if you don't mind my asking, how do you come by this
>knowledge?
Besides a stern scrutiny of books of relevance, word of mouth also benefits.
> It is rare to find a Led Zeppelin fan who knows so much about this
>particular avenue.
There are more Zeppelin fans than we can ever imagine.
mask
>Hideki,
>You of all people asking about another person's gender???
>DJ
>(I enjoyed the suspense while it lasted...)
Hi DJ,
I just wanted to know for sure, as my memory told me otherwise (or at least
there was some mix-up). It just happened to be about someone's gender
(honest).
Well, I said what I said but nobody has met me and confirmed that yet, have
they? (Remember, I don't have photo/scanner/digital camera :-)). Don't you
want to wait util you see a photo, like Jimmy in Brazil thing. ;-P
Hideki - wondering if Sheri is still planing to come to London
mask
>
>Run, Hideki! The fangs will land in *you* next! No, Lecobra is very
>much a male! (Actually, we settled the misunderstanding via e-mail,
>and he's a great guy. He's probably not around, or he'd have laughed
>at the above reference.)
Ugh, so my memory has failed me yet again (should moderate drinking :-)). I
wasn't sure but I seemed to remember there was some mix up with his gender.
Well, his venom shouldn't be as bad as Brown Recluse (glad Joe seems to be
recovering well).
Hideki