Jimmy Page Tone With Epiphone Les Paul?
Jarl Sigurd
He feels that in order to acheive an authentic look he needs a Les
Paul. His dilema is whether to shell out and get a Gibson or
save money and get an Epiphone. Seeing as a lot of the Led
Zeppelin recordings were done using a Telecaster or Danelectro,
wouldn't the brighter sound of an Epiphone suit the music better?
Which brand of Les Paul would you recommend he buy?
Jarl Sigurd
to listen to two songs written and recorded by Jarl Sigurd
visit: http://www.ampcast.com/search/band.php?id=9098
Sam
If he has the money and is motivated, a Gibson
would be the best. However, you can get a real good tone with Epi's, and
sounding like Page, if it is his goal, is not only a matter of Gibson or Epi,
but a matter of strings, and of way to pick. Of course, Gibson LP's have more
sustain, but as you said it, Page did not use his LP only. Furthermore he used
mostly a '58 and '59 LP, so even with a Gibson LP std you won't get the perfect
tone.
Peace & Love,
Sam
One Ring to rule them all, One Ring to find them,
One Ring to bring them all and in the darkness bind them
In the Land of Mordor where the Shadows lie.
Tyler Eaves
--
Tyler Eaves
Webmaster, CoasterCount.com
Keep your track record online - http://www.coastercount.com
"Jarl Sigurd" <jarls...@geocities.com> wrote in message
news:j9J07.42377$TW.2...@tor-nn1.netcom.ca...
Mike Sandler
news:j9J07.42377$TW.2...@tor-nn1.netcom.ca...
> He feels that in order to acheive an authentic look he needs a Les
> Paul. His dilema is whether to shell out and get a Gibson or
> save money and get an Epiphone. Seeing as a lot of the Led
> Zeppelin recordings were done using a Telecaster or Danelectro,
> wouldn't the brighter sound of an Epiphone suit the music better?
> Which brand of Les Paul would you recommend he buy?
Why not call Fender Custom Shop and ask if they can make a guitar where
everything is like Page's Tele but with a Les Paul shaped body?
Mike Sandler
www.ampcast.com/michaelsandler
Tangerine Queen
Jimmy's Gibsons) and found it to be much cheaper than the Gibsons, by
almost $1500. Is there a large sound difference between the Epis and
Gibsons? I'm not very experienced with guitars and all, this being
the first I've owned (I played my Mom's 1971 Guild Studio), but I
didn't seem to hear a drastic difference. Also, about the strings, I
think that Jimmy used Ernie Ball strings (Super Slinkies?) at some
point in his career.
~Danielle~
D
transperformance tuning system, that would be cool, but you seen the price
of those things ? Unless he's trying to get an 'authentic look' as well as
sound, he should go for a guitar he actually likes and feels comfortable
with. A cheaper model Les Paul might look a bit cheesy - unless he plays
like the man himself !
-------------------------------------------
= "Whaddya mean you got no more liquor?"
= - W.A.S.P
-------------------------------------------
MoW
> I have a friend who is putting together a Led Zepellin tribute band.
> He feels that in order to acheive an authentic look he needs a Les
> Paul. His dilema is whether to shell out and get a Gibson or
> save money and get an Epiphone. Seeing as a lot of the Led
> Zeppelin recordings were done using a Telecaster or Danelectro,
> wouldn't the brighter sound of an Epiphone suit the music better?
> Which brand of Les Paul would you recommend he buy?
Ive Seen Him Use A 12x6 Dule Neck Ovation In Concert
If He Can Shell Out For The Epiphone then He Should Do It
If Hes Gonna Starve In Doing It Then He Should Buy The Gibson
Jarl Sigurd
MoW wrote in message ...
>
>If He Can Shell Out For The Epiphone then He Should Do It
>If Hes Gonna Starve In Doing It Then He Should Buy The Gibson
Shouldn't that be the other way around?
Jarl Sigurd
to listen to music recorded using Dean Guitars, visit
http://www.ampcast.com/JarlSigurd
Anthony
going to sound that good ?
Jarl Sigurd wrote in message ...
:I have a friend who is putting together a Led Zepellin tribute band.
:
:
:
Nunya Bidni
"Anthony" <kill...@iprimus.com.au> wrote in message
news:3b46...@news.iprimus.com.au...
> listen to dazed and confused off tsrts. now do you think an $400 guitar is
> going to sound that good ?
That depends. Is Jimmy Page playing it?
Anthony
Nunya Bidni wrote in message ...
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:"Anthony" <kill...@iprimus.com.au> wrote in message
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Nunya Bidni
You don't know that, and can't predict it. Most of a players's tone is in
their fingers- the rest just helps.
Joe
Second its not in the guitar, Page will sound like Page through a pig-nose.
If he can play like Page any old Marshall plexie any guitar with Seth Lover
or real Gibson 58 pickups.
Jarl Sigurd wrote in message ...
Anthony
So I looked at my fingers and I said "toneful fingers do your stuff" know
what happened ? Nothing. My fingers just stared back at me not producing a
sound. Though I think I did hear my left ring finger mutter "I'd prefer a
Gibson Les Paul to and Epiphone, preferably a 58 or 59". To which my
forefinger replied "yeah dude, epi's suck".
Nunya Bidni wrote in message ...
:
:"Anthony" <kill...@iprimus.com.au> wrote in message
:news:3b46...@news.iprimus.com.au...
:> even if he was he wouldn't sound as good through those toy pick ups.
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Nunya Bidni
>
>
> So I looked at my fingers and I said "toneful fingers do your stuff" know
> what happened ? Nothing. My fingers just stared back at me not producing a
> sound. Though I think I did hear my left ring finger mutter "I'd prefer a
> Gibson Les Paul to and Epiphone, preferably a 58 or 59". To which my
> forefinger replied "yeah dude, epi's suck".
Your fingers will do a hell of a lot more for you approximating Page than
ANY Les Paul will. If I have to explain that, you haven't been playing long
enough.
Anthony
My point is simply that Gibson have been making better guitars a lot longer
than epiphone and that you are more likely to get a better sound through a
Gibosn. Have a listen to Dazed and Conused off TSRTS and tell me if the
tones in that song (if your ear can recognise such subtlety) can be produced
from an epiphone, regardless of the fingers powering it.
Nunya Bidni wrote in message ...
:
:"Anthony" <kill...@iprimus.com.au> wrote in message
:news:3b47d33a$1...@news.iprimus.com.au...
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Nunya Bidni
> Been playing long enough to know that a Gibson 58 or 59 will blow any epi
> off the stage.
> Obviously you haven't and don't know enough about guitars to comment on
> anything except 'fingers' or have been around aml-z long enough to know
that
> I'm well aware that anyone's signature is unique.
>
> A nice day to ya : -)
I've been around plenty, guy. My point is that the instrument, in the hands
of a player the caliber of Page, is incidental. I'll reiterate that if you
believe otherwise, you haven't been playing long enough.
Chris Johnson
You can get part of the way there with either, but to go all
the way requires both.
There's a story that many years ago, Ted Nugent tried out Eddie
Van Halen's stage rig when they were both going to be playing
the same venue. One band was opening for the other or it was a
double bill or something. Everything Ted played on Eddie's rig
sounded like...Ted Nugent. Or almost. The tone was slightly
different but any Nugent fan would have known who's playing
without looking.
If you want to sound like Jimmy Page, you need a real Les Paul
with close copies of original PAF's and the amp(s) need to be
Plexi Marshalls of the same models as Jimmy uses, and their tone
needs to be in the same ballpark. Not all amps of even the same
production run and same model sound the same. And you'd need
the right cabinets, which I'd guess would be loaded with 30 watt
greenbacks. That's to start. Next and more importantly, you'd
have to play like Jimmy, duplicating his touch and all the little
nuances that make his playing distinctive. That's the hard part.
The equipment is just a matter of money and searching.
CJ
Nunya Bidni
> BTW I do not necessarily want to emulate or approximate Page either.
> My point is simply that Gibson have been making better guitars a lot
longer
> than epiphone and that you are more likely to get a better sound through a
> Gibosn. Have a listen to Dazed and Conused off TSRTS and tell me if the
> tones in that song (if your ear can recognise such subtlety) can be
produced
> from an epiphone, regardless of the fingers powering it.
That's bullshit. Plenty of manufacturers make good mahogany bodied guitars
with maple caps. My ear has been recognising "that kind of subtlety" for 15
years of playing. Don't delude yourself into thinking there's a "Holy
grail" instrument required for reproducing those tones.
Anthony
comments about siganture and what I have said about guitars pretty much
cover what you are espousing.
Re what your were sating about Ted and Eddie (shorts for the same name
Edward) goes for Page. You'll be able to recognise Page using a tele and a
vox as much as you would a 58 and a marshall. But I don't think I'vbe ever
heard him play an epi and the question has to be asked if Page wanted to
emulate Page would he use and epi or a gibson ?
Anyway it's all getting rather silly.
Chris Johnson wrote in message <3B47F6D1...@cfl.rr.com>...
:The fact of the matter is that tone is both technique and equipment.
:> :> :>
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Anthony
Never alluded to a holy grail of musical instrument perfection though if
someone offered me a 58 or 59 LP or an epi mexi-les I know which one I'd
take. Though of course if the mexi les had a better neck, and electronics of
course I'd take that. But then again is that likely ??
Nunya Bidni wrote in message ...
:
:"Anthony" <kill...@iprimus.com.au> wrote in message
:news:3b47...@news.iprimus.com.au...
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Nunya Bidni
>
> Never alluded to a holy grail of musical instrument perfection though if
> someone offered me a 58 or 59 LP or an epi mexi-les I know which one I'd
> take. Though of course if the mexi les had a better neck, and electronics
of
> course I'd take that. But then again is that likely ??
You've proven you don't know about the Epis to substantiate your argument.
Here's the question:
If someone offers you one of two guitars, a '59 Les Paul or a Epi Les Paul
Standard, as a player, which one do you take home?
Now here's the answer:
The one that sounds better. Strictly as a player, that's the only thing
that matters.
The fact remains that Jimmy Page could reproduce his signature Les Paul tone
on a Epi Les Paul (or for that matter, a PRS McCarty) just as easily as he
could on a '59 LP.
TheUnicornGarden
written about in many books I have on the subject--the huge number of guitars
he used during Zep bears this out. However, Epis, though nice, do not have the
same tone as a Les Paul, any more than a plastic Selmer sounds like my wooden
Olds Ambassador clarinet. (they made the best mouthpieces, though, and I use
one on my Ambassador!) If you have ears, you can tell the difference. Keep in
mind, though, that Nirvana frontman Kurt used a Mustang, and that piece of junk
didn't keep him from creating some of the most successful music of recent
times. Most people can't tell the difference! Jimmy had fun on his Sears
special, too. Many low budget bands use Epis, but when you get the bucks, I'd
switch to the Les Paul--by then you will have the ears to notice the
difference, and the fingers to get the tone.....teehee.
Steve Christie
Nunya Bidni wrote in message
>>
>> Never alluded to a holy grail of musical instrument perfection though if
>> someone offered me a 58 or 59 LP or an epi mexi-les I know which one I'd
>> take. Though of course if the mexi les had a better neck, and electronics
>of
>> course I'd take that. But then again is that likely ??
>
>You've proven you don't know about the Epis to substantiate your argument.
>
>Here's the question:
>
>If someone offers you one of two guitars, a '59 Les Paul or a Epi Les Paul
>Standard, as a player, which one do you take home?
>
>Now here's the answer:
>
>The one that sounds better. Strictly as a player, that's the only thing
>that matters.
Ummm...not exactly. I bet you that the Gibson would `wear` better than the
Epi. For an expensive (`keeper`) guitar durability is important. I think 95%
of us would officially go for the Gibson above the Epi and secretly we all
would.
Nunya Bidni
"Steve Christie" <St...@deeppurple.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
news:9iahsb$d02$1...@newsg3.svr.pol.co.uk...
All things being equal, I agree. But, to blindly assume every Gibson made
will sound better than every Epi made is foolish at best. I've played some
absolutely dogshit Les Pauls. That said, I really dig my SG.
> >The fact remains that Jimmy Page could reproduce his signature Les Paul
> tone
> >on a Epi Les Paul (or for that matter, a PRS McCarty) just as easily as
he
> >could on a '59 LP.
This statement stands.
Twang
Steve Christie <St...@deeppurple.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
news:9iahsb$d02$1...@newsg3.svr.pol.co.uk...
>
> <9FT17.117462$mG4.57...@news1.mntp1.il.home.com>...
> >
> >"Anthony" <kill...@iprimus.com.au> wrote in message
> >news:3b47...@news.iprimus.com.au...
> >> Not Bullshit.
> >>
> >> Never alluded to a holy grail of musical instrument perfection though
if
> >> someone offered me a 58 or 59 LP or an epi mexi-les I know which one
I'd
> >> take. Though of course if the mexi les had a better neck, and
electronics
> >of
> >> course I'd take that. But then again is that likely ??
> >
> >You've proven you don't know about the Epis to substantiate your
argument.
> >
> >Here's the question:
> >
> >If someone offers you one of two guitars, a '59 Les Paul or a Epi Les
Paul
> >Standard, as a player, which one do you take home?
> >
> >Now here's the answer:
> >
> >The one that sounds better. Strictly as a player, that's the only thing
> >that matters.
>
> Ummm...not exactly. I bet you that the Gibson would `wear` better than the
> Epi.
with seven years on my sheraton, I have to say, epis lifetime warranty is
just about long enough.
*S*
For an expensive (`keeper`) guitar durability is important. I think 95%
> of us would officially go for the Gibson above the Epi and secretly we all
> would.
Not in all cases. Gibson and Epi have differing models.
In cases where they are nearly identical, I would take several Epis over one
Gibson.
Twang!
Nebuchadnezzar
"Chris Johnson" <cmjo...@cfl.rr.com> wrote in message
news:3B47F6D1...@cfl.rr.com...
>
> If you want to sound like Jimmy Page, you need a real Les Paul
> with close copies of original PAF's and the amp(s) need to be
> Plexi Marshalls of the same models as Jimmy uses, and their tone
> needs to be in the same ballpark.
Or a Tele and a Supro. The trick is not so much the guitar and amp as much
as it is the _cases_.
Later,
Andrew Mullhaupt
Kate Ebneter
>
> BTW I do not necessarily want to emulate or approximate Page either.
> My point is simply that Gibson have been making better guitars a lot longer
> than epiphone and that you are more likely to get a better sound through a
> Gibosn.
Epiphone has been around as long as Gibson, FWIW. Of course, the
guitars currently sold under the Epiphone name are made mostly by
Samick, with a few exceptions.
> Have a listen to Dazed and Conused off TSRTS and tell me if the
> tones in that song (if your ear can recognise such subtlety) can be produced
> from an epiphone, regardless of the fingers powering it.
Sure. Might depend a bit on the particular guitar, but there are
Epiphone Les Pauls that are every bit as good as anything that Gibson
currently makes, modulo possibly a pickup swap -- and even with the
pickup swap, the Epi will be cheaper than the Gibson.
There's not that much "special" about Page's Les Pauls except for the
switching on one of them (coil taps and phase switches). Sure, a '59
flametop is a great guitar, but people pay silly prices for them
because they're rare and pretty, not (just) because they're great
guitars.
Kate Ebneter
Collector of Noise Toys
Anthony
You've proven you don't only not know quality but you also shown you don't
know the value of money.
How do you feel dickhead ?
Nunya Bidni wrote in message
<9FT17.117462$mG4.57...@news1.mntp1.il.home.com>...
:
:"Anthony" <kill...@iprimus.com.au> wrote in message
:news:3b47...@news.iprimus.com.au...
:> Not Bullshit.
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Anthony
playing long enough having never heard anything I've played YOU IGNORANT
DICKHEADED MOEON just because I believe A Gibson 58 or 59 Les Paul is both
a better guitar than yer average mexi-les epiphone and also a better FUCKING
INVESTMENT.
DONT YOU KNOW QUALITY ATTRACTS PRICE THEREFORE VALUE. OR ARE YOU TOO FUCKING
THICK ???
Good luck with your Epi STUPID.
PLONK
Nunya Bidni wrote in message ...
:
:"Anthony" <kill...@iprimus.com.au> wrote in message
:
:
Anthony
play 58 and 59 epiphone Les Pauls.
Kate Ebneter wrote in message <3B49374D...@ix.netcom.com>...
:Anthony wrote:
:>
:> BTW I do not necessarily want to emulate or approximate Page either.
:> My point is simply that Gibson have been making better guitars a lot
longer
:> than epiphone and that you are more likely to get a better sound through
a
:> Gibosn.
:
:Epiphone has been around as long as Gibson, FWIW. Of course, the
:guitars currently sold under the Epiphone name are made mostly by
:Samick, with a few exceptions.
Plywood and chipboard.
:
:> Have a listen to Dazed and Conused off TSRTS and tell me if the
:> tones in that song (if your ear can recognise such subtlety) can be
produced
:> from an epiphone, regardless of the fingers powering it.
:
:Sure. Might depend a bit on the particular guitar, but there are
:Epiphone Les Pauls that are every bit as good as anything that Gibson
:currently makes, modulo possibly a pickup swap -- and even with the
:pickup swap, the Epi will be cheaper than the Gibson.
Yeah well there you're argument dies. Cheaper because the 58 or 59 is a
better quality instrument.
If this debate holds good. I guess you'd prefer to play a squier than a 65
stratocaster or 62 telecaster.
Anyway gotta go Pat rafter is about to play Wimbledon.
:
:There's not that much "special" about Page's Les Pauls except for the
Anthony
and we'll both be happy huh.
Nunya Bidni wrote in message ...
:
:"Anthony" <kill...@iprimus.com.au> wrote in message
:
:
Dan Stanley
> Yeah you're sooooo right, I guess that's why musicians like Page choose to
> play 58 and 59 epiphone Les Pauls.
> Kate Ebneter wrote in message <3B49374D...@ix.netcom.com>...
> :Anthony wrote:
> :>
> :> BTW I do not necessarily want to emulate or approximate Page either.
> :> My point is simply that Gibson have been making better guitars a lot
> longer
> :> than epiphone and that you are more likely to get a better sound
through
> a
> :> Gibosn.
Gibson has been making shitty guitars for almost as long as they have been
making good ones.
The name Gibson up there where the turny bits go is no gaurantee of quality.
Neither is the word "Epiphone", of course.
But I can tell you I've played walls full of Epi LPs, and walls full of
Gibson LPs, and sometimes the best LP in the store is an Epi. Very seldom is
ANY new Gibson worth the price when a new Epi, a set of decent pickups, good
tuners ( Page changed the tuners on his Gibsons, you know...Grovers, the
official tuner of the Seventies), and maybe other little bits, is 1/3 the
Gibson's.
> :Epiphone has been around as long as Gibson, FWIW. Of course, the
> :guitars currently sold under the Epiphone name are made mostly by
> :Samick, with a few exceptions.
>
> Plywood and chipboard.
That is simply not true. The Epi LP Std. is mahogany with a maple cap,
mahogany neck and rosewood fingerboard. The body MAY be more than one piece
( as is the occasional Gibson), and the cap is about 1/4" on the Epi,
compared to 3/8" or so on the Gibson. Set neck on both. You think the magic
tone is in 1/8" of maple? Think again.
> :> Have a listen to Dazed and Conused off TSRTS and tell me if the
> :> tones in that song (if your ear can recognise such subtlety) can be
> produced
> :> from an epiphone, regardless of the fingers powering it.
> :
> :Sure. Might depend a bit on the particular guitar, but there are
> :Epiphone Les Pauls that are every bit as good as anything that Gibson
> :currently makes, modulo possibly a pickup swap -- and even with the
> :pickup swap, the Epi will be cheaper than the Gibson.
>
> Yeah well there you're argument dies. Cheaper because the 58 or 59 is a
> better quality instrument.
You'd be surprised to learn that a lot of them old Gibsons are dogs.
Page sounds great because he is a great guitar player, simply put.
If you want to ascribe that to the guitar, give props to the pickups, I
suppose...no-one will complain that the early PAFs weren't great.
So, get a good solid Epiphone, stick some good pickups in it, tweak to
taste, plug into a big ass Marshall, put together a good band, play like the
debbil his own bad self was on yer tail, and you pretty much will sound just
like Jimmy Page on TSRTS.
Rufus Leaking
>making good ones.
>The name Gibson up there where the turny bits go is no gaurantee of quality.
>Neither is the word "Epiphone", of course.
nor the word Fender. All the mass producers of instruments have QA issues.
When shopping for guitars I generally look over at least 5-6 of any make/model
I'm looking at. Exceptions to this were when I bought my 64 Melody Maker; I
bought it from a friend who got it for $40 at a garage sale. He was moving to
Boston and didn't want to pack 2 guitars (you'd think he would let me have a
stab at his ES 335, but NOOOOOOOO), and when I bought my 79 Strat. They didn't
have another one in the Crimson Transparent finish and I really had to have
it!!!
The key is to play a bunch of 'em and weed out the clunkers...
Dave
"Hid in the reeds are eyes that peek,
voices I don't understand.
Flamingos fly endlessly,
To the silent sky"
virtually valerie
Page could get close. Install better pickups in the Epiphone and I
imagine not many people could tell the difference.
With your attitude, I doubt you'd get anywhere near it with either
guitar.
On Sun, 8 Jul 2001 15:49:22 -0700, "Anthony" <kill...@iprimus.com.au>
wrote:
virtually valerie
Put better pickups into the Epiphone and I suppose he could get close
enough to "the sound". The majority of the equation is in his fingers.
On Sun, 8 Jul 2001 16:27:36 -0700, "Anthony" <kill...@iprimus.com.au>
wrote:
virtually valerie
virtually valerie
I played a whole GC full of crap Les Pauls over the weekend. Then I
went to Mars and played a whole store of crap Epiphones, altho there
were a couple of nice Epis. One Gibson Les Paul, a 57 goldtop classic,
priced at over 2700 dollars, wouldnt even stay in tune. Pitiful.
Gibson Quality Control.
Oxymoron.
On Sun, 08 Jul 2001 21:56:18 GMT, "Nunya Bidni" <sound...@home.com>
wrote:
virtually valerie
Actually the switching is only on the 59, the one he got from Joe
Walsh. the 58 he uses all the time is somewhat stock altho there was a
story that the bridge pickup went bad and got switched out.
You could buy a house with proceeds from the sale of a real 59.
Then fill it up with Epiphones and MArshalls. Turn it all up loud
enough and you might even fool your cat into thinking you ARE Page.
virtually valerie
I'd agree, but sadly, I'm on vacation.
If I could find an Epi with a nice thin neck like on the Classic 1960
Gibson model, I'd get the Epi instead, switch out pickups, and save
myself a lot of money. So far, I havent found an Epi that "felt
right".
But most Les Pauls dont feel any better, necks are too big for me.
On Mon, 09 Jul 2001 13:25:05 GMT, "Dan Stanley" <vze2...@verizon.net>
wrote:
Nebuchadnezzar
> :Sure. Might depend a bit on the particular guitar,
This is the important part.
> :but there are
> :Epiphone Les Pauls that are every bit as good as anything that Gibson
> :currently makes, modulo possibly a pickup swap -- and even with the
> :pickup swap, the Epi will be cheaper than the Gibson.
>
> Yeah well there you're argument dies. Cheaper because the 58 or 59 is a
> better quality instrument.
Is it? I've played several. I don't own any.
> If this debate holds good. I guess you'd prefer to play a squier than a 65
> stratocaster or 62 telecaster.
That could happen. I sold my '65 Strat. Collector's dream it was, complete
with 'hang tags, cable, manual, and original strings'. Traded it in towards
a '54 Tele that is actually a fine sounding instrument. It was tough for me
to find a blackguard that I liked; until we tried this '54 I had passed on a
bunch of earlier ones.
Later,
Andrew Mullhaupt
D
damn thing on it, hated it. I let someone who plays Classical recitals have
a go, he dashed off an amazing piece on it and said "Nothing wrong with the
guitar - Keep practicing !!"
But I also agree that for a real quality sound as well as technique, you
would be wise to invest in a quality instument.
D
shoebox strung with rubberbands, but I think maybe 'gettng the right sound'
isn't the most important thing for a tribute band. For Zep in particular,
I'd want to see improvisation around the songs as Page does (or used to,
more in his early days). Throwing in a lot of tricks and runs that he used
would impress a Zep fan more than just an expensive guitar and a 'clinically
perfect' tone. An awful word to use I know, but the 'vibe' would be the most
important thing to stand out from the many other Xerox-copy bands.
virtually valerie <ama...@diablo.com> wrote in message
news:3b49e067....@news.atl.bellsouth.net...
Sam
>story that the bridge pickup went bad and got switched out.
The neck's been modified too, resulting the loss of the serial #
And actually he didn't change the bridge pickup, but only lost the cover.
Peace,
Sam
Twang
>
> I'd agree, but sadly, I'm on vacation.
>
> If I could find an Epi with a nice thin neck like on the Classic 1960
> Gibson model, I'd get the Epi instead, switch out pickups, and save
> myself a lot of money. So far, I havent found an Epi that "felt
> right".
>
> But most Les Pauls dont feel any better, necks are too big for me.
>
>
>
One of the things I like best about my sheraton is the thin neck..I don't
know if you've tried one or not...
Twang!
Nunya Bidni
>
> I played a whole GC full of crap Les Pauls over the weekend. Then I
> went to Mars and played a whole store of crap Epiphones, altho there
> were a couple of nice Epis. One Gibson Les Paul, a 57 goldtop classic,
> priced at over 2700 dollars, wouldnt even stay in tune. Pitiful.
>
> Gibson Quality Control.
>
> Oxymoron.
I was absolutely lucky with my SG, but I got it used, 2 years old, from the
original owner. I figured if it sucked, he wouldn't have kept it that long.
:)
Nunya Bidni
> Look you have your epi I'll stick with Fender because I can't afford
Gibson
> and we'll both be happy huh.
I don't have an Epi anymore. However, I did have one at one point, along
with 5 other guitars, including a PRS and a Fender Tele. I can afford what
I like- I bought the Epi because it was a good guitar.
g-mane
-g
In article <3b49e511....@news.atl.bellsouth.net>, ama...@diablo.com
(virtually valerie) wrote:
--
do the usual to reply
Kate Ebneter
>
> Yeah you're sooooo right, I guess that's why musicians like Page choose to
> play 58 and 59 epiphone Les Pauls.
If Epiphone had made Les Pauls in '58 and '59, they very well might.
Old Epiphones were dandy guitars, first class quality all the way. The
new ones aren't the same, of course, but they're still pretty nice
guitars.
I ain't saying that an Epiphone Les Paul is the same guitar as a late
'50s 'burst. I _am_ saying that (1) there are guitars being made now
that are as good as those '50s bursts, and (2) there are very nice
Epiphone Les Pauls, with which Jimmy Page could most certainly achieve
"his tone" if he chose to do so. (And I'll remind you that many of
Jimmy Page's classic tones were actually Telecasters, not Les Pauls.)
> Kate Ebneter wrote in message <3B49374D...@ix.netcom.com>...
> :Anthony wrote:
> :>
> :> BTW I do not necessarily want to emulate or approximate Page either.
> :> My point is simply that Gibson have been making better guitars a lot
> longer
> :> than epiphone and that you are more likely to get a better sound through
> a
> :> Gibosn.
> :
> :Epiphone has been around as long as Gibson, FWIW. Of course, the
> :guitars currently sold under the Epiphone name are made mostly by
> :Samick, with a few exceptions.
>
> Plywood and chipboard.
Nope. Absolutely not. No chipboard, for sure. Some of the low-end
Epis (like the bolt-neck Les Pauls) are probably laminated wood, but
it's not "plywood" like you'd build a house out of. Gibson made Les
Pauls with laminated bodies for years, you know. And the higher-end
Epi Les Pauls are solid wood, with real maple caps, not just veneers.
> :
> :> Have a listen to Dazed and Conused off TSRTS and tell me if the
> :> tones in that song (if your ear can recognise such subtlety) can be
> produced
> :> from an epiphone, regardless of the fingers powering it.
> :
> :Sure. Might depend a bit on the particular guitar, but there are
> :Epiphone Les Pauls that are every bit as good as anything that Gibson
> :currently makes, modulo possibly a pickup swap -- and even with the
> :pickup swap, the Epi will be cheaper than the Gibson.
>
> Yeah well there you're argument dies. Cheaper because the 58 or 59 is a
> better quality instrument.
Not necessarily. A '58 or '59 'burst is expensive because it's rare,
not necessarily because of its quality. If you were just paying for the
guitar, I doubt you'd get more than a few grand for a '58/'59 'burst
-- around what a modern equivalent sells for. There's a LOT of things
that go into the price of any guitar, especially vintage collectables,
and quality's only one of them, and most of the time it's not the most
important one. Consider that the price of a '59 'burst may vary by
more than a factor of two depending on how flamey the top is.
> If this debate holds good. I guess you'd prefer to play a squier than a 65
> stratocaster or 62 telecaster.
I'd prefer to play whichever one is the better guitar. I don't find
Squiers to be of as high quality as the high-end Epiphones. The Fender
equivalent would prolly be a Mexican Strat. Similar quality, similar
issues with the electronics.
I promise you, you put a pair of PAFs or PAF-equivalents in an Epi Les
Paul, you'll be pretty hard-pressed to tell that it's not a Gibson.
Anthony
also a better investment ?
How long did you say you been playin guitar
Nunya Bidni wrote in message ...
:
:"Anthony" <kill...@iprimus.com.au> wrote in message
:news:3b4989c2$1...@news.iprimus.com.au...
:> :
:>
:>
:
:
Anthony
virtually valerie wrote in message
<3b49e511....@news.atl.bellsouth.net>...
:
:Actually the switching is only on the 59, the one he got from Joe
:
:
Anthony
the money I'd have put a deposit on it.
However given that aged wood adds to the tone of on instruemnt and the
vintage of a pre 1960, stands to reason that it's gonna be a better
instrument. I have my grandfather's violin from 1921 and if anyone tries to
tell me the age of an instrument means nothing I just laugh. On my last trip
to the luthiers though, there were a few Gibsons including some sort of 1954
semi acoustic with a broken headstock. Gibson are notorious for breaking
there.
Dan Stanley wrote in message ...
:
:"Anthony" <kill...@iprimus.com.au> wrote in message
:
:
:
:
Rufus Leaking
>
exactly - given the time and money, I could sound like Jimmy if I wanted to.
But I'd rather play his stuff my way. FWIW I don't use effects other than the
built in gain/boost and tremelo on my Vox amp. Great for others if they want
'em, but I like the way things sound as is.
Heck, I even play Stairway wrong, having learned it off the piano score, yet it
still sounds like STH to those who've heard it.
Of course to me, guitar is an avocation rather than a vocation, so WTF do I
know about it anyway?
Rufus Leaking
>there.
especially SG's....
Anthony
Kate Ebneter wrote in message <3B4AA248...@ix.netcom.com>...
:Anthony wrote:
:>
:> Yeah you're sooooo right, I guess that's why musicians like Page choose
to
:> play 58 and 59 epiphone Les Pauls.
:
:If Epiphone had made Les Pauls in '58 and '59, they very well might.
:Old Epiphones were dandy guitars, first class quality all the way. The
:new ones aren't the same, of course, but they're still pretty nice
:guitars.
I thought you were telling me how hot epiphone was now you're saying the
newer ones aren't so hot ?
:
:I ain't saying that an Epiphone Les Paul is the same guitar as a late
:'50s 'burst. I _am_ saying that (1) there are guitars being made now
:that are as good as those '50s bursts, and (2) there are very nice
:Epiphone Les Pauls, with which Jimmy Page could most certainly achieve
:"his tone" if he chose to do so. (And I'll remind you that many of
:Jimmy Page's classic tones were actually Telecasters, not Les Pauls.)
I doubt they are being made in Mexico, Japan or South East Asia.
Do enlighten us, which Led Zeppelin classics were his tele and which were
done with a LP ?
:
:> Kate Ebneter wrote in message <3B49374D...@ix.netcom.com>...
:> :Anthony wrote:
:> :>
:> :> BTW I do not necessarily want to emulate or approximate Page either.
:> :> My point is simply that Gibson have been making better guitars a lot
:> longer
:> :> than epiphone and that you are more likely to get a better sound
through
:> a
:> :> Gibosn.
:> :
:> :Epiphone has been around as long as Gibson, FWIW. Of course, the
:> :guitars currently sold under the Epiphone name are made mostly by
:> :Samick, with a few exceptions.
:>
:> Plywood and chipboard.
And now Gibson wants to buy Samick.
:
:Nope. Absolutely not. No chipboard, for sure. Some of the low-end
:Epis (like the bolt-neck Les Pauls) are probably laminated wood, but
:it's not "plywood" like you'd build a house out of. Gibson made Les
:Pauls with laminated bodies for years, you know. And the higher-end
:Epi Les Pauls are solid wood, with real maple caps, not just veneers.
:
:> :
:> :> Have a listen to Dazed and Conused off TSRTS and tell me if the
:> :> tones in that song (if your ear can recognise such subtlety) can be
:> produced
:> :> from an epiphone, regardless of the fingers powering it.
:> :
:> :Sure. Might depend a bit on the particular guitar, but there are
:> :Epiphone Les Pauls that are every bit as good as anything that Gibson
:> :currently makes, modulo possibly a pickup swap -- and even with the
:> :pickup swap, the Epi will be cheaper than the Gibson.
Aren't we talking guitar as in all of the sum parts making the whole.
So you're admitting an epi les paul would require a pick up swap to sound
like a vintage Gibson Les Paul ?
:>
:> Yeah well there you're argument dies. Cheaper because the 58 or 59 is a
:> better quality instrument.
:
:Not necessarily. A '58 or '59 'burst is expensive because it's rare,
:not necessarily because of its quality. If you were just paying for the
:guitar, I doubt you'd get more than a few grand for a '58/'59 'burst
:-- around what a modern equivalent sells for. There's a LOT of things
:that go into the price of any guitar, especially vintage collectables,
:and quality's only one of them, and most of the time it's not the most
:important one. Consider that the price of a '59 'burst may vary by
:more than a factor of two depending on how flamey the top is.
Any luthier worth his salt will tell you that a quality instrument gets
better as the wood ages , so a lot of them old Gibsons (and epi's for this
argument's sake) from the 50s, you'd imagine would be sounding pretty sweet
about now. Aesthetics are going to come into price of course, but for the
purist, a well made instrument is only going to sound better with age but
you being an instrument collector should know that and it's interesting that
this hasn't come up in any of your arguments. Or the fact that most epi
buyers turf the switch, the pots and the pick-ups because they have a
notorious reputation for fucking up. When you waffle on about quality you
should bear in mind the electrics as well ie the Whole guitar.. I nearly put
a deposit on an epi a few weeks ago and had I had the money I would have.
The feedback I got was buy it but turf the electonics. The neck felt pretty
good, though it felt a bit light. It was in a pawn shop not a music shop so
I didn't get a good listen of it loud but it was alright. I wouldn't
necessarliy have put it up there with my 83 strat though.
:
:> If this debate holds good. I guess you'd prefer to play a squier than a
65
:> stratocaster or 62 telecaster.
:
:I'd prefer to play whichever one is the better guitar. I don't find
:Squiers to be of as high quality as the high-end Epiphones. The Fender
:equivalent would prolly be a Mexican Strat. Similar quality, similar
:issues with the electronics.
Be interseting to see how these wonderful late model epis you espouse hold
their value when they vintage. Guess you won't find one with orignal pick
ups and I doubt you'll see your kids rushing to buy epi 01 reissues with
'vintage epi pickups' in them. There ya go, but being the collector you are
if you buy 'em all up now you'll scoop up in another 25 years ! ! lol
:
:I promise you, you put a pair of PAFs or PAF-equivalents in an Epi Les
:Paul, you'll be pretty hard-pressed to tell that it's not a Gibson.
There ya go again swapping pick ups to make one guitar sound like it's big
brother ! !
:
:Kate Ebneter
:Collector of Noise Toys
Anthony
virtually valerie wrote in message
:
:Page could get close. Install better pickups in the Epiphone and I
:imagine not many people could tell the difference.
:
:With your attitude, I doubt you'd get anywhere near it with either
:guitar.
guitar god, got a website so we can have a listen ?
:
:
:On Sun, 8 Jul 2001 15:49:22 -0700, "Anthony" <kill...@iprimus.com.au>
:
:
Anthony
Nunya Bidni wrote in message
:> Not Bullshit.
:>
:> Never alluded to a holy grail of musical instrument perfection though if
:> someone offered me a 58 or 59 LP or an epi mexi-les I know which one I'd
:> take. Though of course if the mexi les had a better neck, and electronics
:of
:> course I'd take that. But then again is that likely ??
:
:You've proven you don't know about the Epis to substantiate your argument.
Nope. Wrong. You've just made a statement "You've proven you don't know
about the Epis to substantiate your argument." imagining that just by
maiking that statement you have proven a point. You have no debating skills
whatsoever and as a guitar collector I imagine you've collected a pile of
shit over the years knowing so little quality or a good investment.
I have not with my previous staemement proven I know nothing about
epiphones. I have it on very good advice that an electronics swap is in
order in any epi LP needs an electronics swap. If the guitar is so fucking
good it begs the simple but necessary question. Why would you need to do
that if it's so good ?
Swapped any epi pickups lately to make them sound more like a Gibson ?
:
:Here's the question:
:
:If someone offers you one of two guitars, a '59 Les Paul or a Epi Les Paul
:Standard, as a player, which one do you take home?
:
:Now here's the answer:
:
:The one that sounds better. Strictly as a player, that's the only thing
:that matters.
yeah you're right that late model tone wood is gonna sound 40 years better
than one of them old crappy Gibsons now isn't it. lol
:
:The fact remains that Jimmy Page could reproduce his signature Les Paul
tone
:on a Epi Les Paul (or for that matter, a PRS McCarty) just as easily as he
:could on a '59 LP.
With them great epi pickups ripped out (save 'em they'll be 'vintage epi
pickups' in 2025 - worth a mint !) and swapped to sound like a gibson, and
the wood (real asian tone wood - six-ply of it ) being so spanking new. You
are soooo right.
Do you know you are one of the wisest people I've ever met,
Anthony
Nunya Bidni wrote in message ...
:
:"virtually valerie" <ama...@diablo.com> wrote in message
:news:3b49e37d....@news.atl.bellsouth.net...
:>
:> I played a whole GC full of crap Les Pauls over the weekend. Then I
:> went to Mars and played a whole store of crap Epiphones, altho there
:> were a couple of nice Epis. One Gibson Les Paul, a 57 goldtop classic,
:> priced at over 2700 dollars, wouldnt even stay in tune. Pitiful.
:>
:> Gibson Quality Control.
:>
:> Oxymoron.
:
:
:I was absolutely lucky with my SG, but I got it used, 2 years old, from the
:original owner. I figured if it sucked, he wouldn't have kept it that long.
::)
maybe the pawn shop wouldn't buy it.
:
:
:
:
:
:> On Sun, 08 Jul 2001 21:56:18 GMT, "Nunya Bidni" <sound...@home.com>
:>
:
:
Twang
>
> Kate Ebneter wrote in message <3B4AA248...@ix.netcom.com>...
> :Anthony wrote:
> :>
> :> Yeah you're sooooo right, I guess that's why musicians like Page choose
> to
> :> play 58 and 59 epiphone Les Pauls.
> :
> :If Epiphone had made Les Pauls in '58 and '59, they very well might.
> :Old Epiphones were dandy guitars, first class quality all the way. The
> :new ones aren't the same, of course, but they're still pretty nice
> :guitars.
>
> I thought you were telling me how hot epiphone was now you're saying the
> newer ones aren't so hot ?
>
> :
> :I ain't saying that an Epiphone Les Paul is the same guitar as a late
> :'50s 'burst. I _am_ saying that (1) there are guitars being made now
> :that are as good as those '50s bursts, and (2) there are very nice
> :Epiphone Les Pauls, with which Jimmy Page could most certainly achieve
> :"his tone" if he chose to do so. (And I'll remind you that many of
> :Jimmy Page's classic tones were actually Telecasters, not Les Pauls.)
>
>
> I doubt they are being made in Mexico, Japan or South East Asia.
what's that got to do with it?
". I _am_ saying that (1) there are guitars being made now
:that are as good as those '50s bursts, and (2) there are very nice
:Epiphone Les Pauls, with which Jimmy Page could most certainly achieve
:"his tone" if he chose to do so.", was the statement.
> Do enlighten us, which Led Zeppelin classics were his tele and which were
> done with a LP ?
Why should she? You have a computer.
*s*
Twang!
Twang
*snip*
really.. it's just too damned boring to go through all of this, but I
couldn't leave without a comment.
So here it is:
boring and wrong headed.
Have a nice day.
Twang!
Sam
>Do enlighten us, which Led Zeppelin classics were his tele and which were
>done with a LP ?
Dazed and Confused, Good Times Bad Times, Communication Breakdown, Stairway To
Heaven (studio), plus occasionally some other tunes on albums were LP's were
dominant.
Actually at least half of the "classics" were played in studio with a guitar
other than a Les Paul, and more than half if you include the acoustic songs.
However, ALL the classics were played by Jimmy Page's (TM) original '44 fingers
:-)
Peace and Love,
Sam
TheUnicornGarden
a gig in their early days, and Jimmy was playing a blonde Tele. I have to say
the sound was thinner and not as nice as later in the show when they showed him
playing the LP or the doubleneck SG. Each sounded like Zep, but the "fatness"
of the tone changed with each instrument. I like them all, but you choose
which you like better...
>Subject: Re: Jimmy Page Tone With Epiphone Les Paul?
>From: "Anthony" kill...@iprimus.com.au
>Date: 7/11/01 1:23 AM Central Daylight Time
>Message-id: <3b4b...@news.iprimus.com.au>
Dan Stanley
>
> Nunya Bidni wrote in message
> <9FT17.117462$mG4.57...@news1.mntp1.il.home.com>...
> :
> :"Anthony" <kill...@iprimus.com.au> wrote in message
> :news:3b47...@news.iprimus.com.au...
> :> Not Bullshit.
> :>
> :> Never alluded to a holy grail of musical instrument perfection though
if
> :> someone offered me a 58 or 59 LP or an epi mexi-les I know which one
I'd
> :> take. Though of course if the mexi les had a better neck, and
electronics
> :of
> :> course I'd take that. But then again is that likely ??
> :
> :You've proven you don't know about the Epis to substantiate your
argument.
>
>
> Nope. Wrong. You've just made a statement "You've proven you don't know
> about the Epis to substantiate your argument." imagining that just by
> maiking that statement you have proven a point.
Well, see, you sort of suggested that Epis are made in Mexico, which pretty
much indicates that you don't know much about them at all. Because they
aren't. Made in Mexico. You know. ( I'm using small phrases like that to aid
you in your comprehension. Thank me later)
> I have not with my previous staemement proven I know nothing about
> epiphones.
Only that you don't know where they are made. Don't worry about it, it
doesn't really matter.
> I have it on very good advice that an electronics swap is in
> order in any epi LP needs an electronics swap. If the guitar is so fucking
> good it begs the simple but necessary question. Why would you need to do
> that if it's so good ?
Because those are the parts that aren't so good. You hard of thinking?
> Swapped any epi pickups lately to make them sound more like a Gibson ?
Yup. Swapped out Epi 'buckers for some Rio Grande BBQ Buckers.
I also swapped some Gibson 49x pickups out of my gen-yoo-ine Gibson Les
Paul, and replaced them with Rio Grande Texas Humbuckers. Now the guitar
sounds "more like a Gibson" than it ever did before.
> :Here's the question:
> :
> :If someone offers you one of two guitars, a '59 Les Paul or a Epi Les
Paul
> :Standard, as a player, which one do you take home?
> :
> :Now here's the answer:
> :
> :The one that sounds better. Strictly as a player, that's the only thing
> :that matters.
>
> yeah you're right that late model tone wood is gonna sound 40 years better
> than one of them old crappy Gibsons now isn't it. lol
When Page was making the first couple Zep records, he was using a
Telecaster.
But his famed LP Standard was only 10 years old in '68. So during Zep's
heyday, it wasn't even close to sounding "40 years better than" anything.
When Clapton was making "Bluesbreakers" his LP was about 7 years old. You
can toss those ideas about "aged tone wood" out the window. Those guitars
sounded good, period. And that is because the PLAYERS were good. Duane
Allman sounded great with a LP, Betts sounded great, Bloomfield sounded
great...you know why? Because they were great players.
> :The fact remains that Jimmy Page could reproduce his signature Les Paul
> tone
> :on a Epi Les Paul (or for that matter, a PRS McCarty) just as easily as
he
> :could on a '59 LP.
> With them great epi pickups ripped out (save 'em they'll be 'vintage epi
> pickups' in 2025 - worth a mint !) and swapped to sound like a gibson, and
> the wood (real asian tone wood - six-ply of it )
That bit...six ply asian tone-wood...is absolutely not true. Since we should
at least be comparing Gibson LP Std. to Epi LP Std., you have to stop that.
It just sort of shows that you really don't know what you are talking about,
and I know you are kind of tetchy about that.
Hunk of mahogany, maple cap, mahogany set neck. In the case of the Epi, the
body is usually more than one piece, in the case of the Gibson, it
occasionally is. The maple cap on the Epi is 1/8 less thick than the
Gibson's. Both the Epi and Gibson, these days, have CNC carved neck
joints...I'd go so far as to say that new Epi's are more consistantly good
than the Gibsons of the late 50's in that regard.
Gibson uses shitty tuners, so does Epi. New Gibsons come through with those
characterless 490 and 496 or whatever they call 'em pickups, new Epis get
some pretty lame pickups too.
SO would rather pay a boatload of money for a guitar on which you need to
change tuners and pickups, or a sensible amount of money for a guitar that
needs new tuners and pickups?
Assuming that you are going to PLAY it, and not use it as a status symbol,
that is?
Dan
TheUnicornGarden
in different instruments if you listen. I'm sure even you could if you took
the same amp at a store and plugged in different guitars. That's how most of
us choose the guitar we buy, not by the label or shape. That's why, to my lead
guitarist's dismay, I picked my 540P Ibanez, not the Squier Strat he wanted me
to get--that model sounded better, and the best on the wall in that
model--alder is notorious for sounding different in different guitars. I've
heard good and crap LP's, too--his was notorious for falling out of tune every
second song, but you couldn't get him to try another guitar because it looked
like one Page used. I think you underestimate yourself. Give it a try! Or
should I say a listen.....
Teehee
>Subject: Re: Jimmy Page Tone With Epiphone Les Paul?
>From: ama...@diablo.com (virtually valerie)
>Date: 7/9/01 11:59 AM Central Daylight Time
>Message-id: <3b49e2b6....@news.atl.bellsouth.net>
>
>
>You over-estimate yourself.
>
>
>
>On 08 Jul 2001 15:30:05 GMT, theunico...@aol.com
>(TheUnicornGarden) wrote:
>
>>> If you have ears, you can tell the difference.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
TheUnicornGarden
The ears are the best judge....
>Subject: Re: Jimmy Page Tone With Epiphone Les Paul?
>From: djma...@aol.comtraalfaz (Rufus Leaking)
>Date: 7/9/01 10:11 AM Central Daylight Time
>Message-id: <20010709111150...@ng-fr1.aol.com>
>
>>Gibson has been making shitty guitars for almost as long as they have been
>>making good ones.
>>The name Gibson up there where the turny bits go is no gaurantee of quality.
>>Neither is the word "Epiphone", of course.
>
>nor the word Fender. All the mass producers of instruments have QA issues.
>When shopping for guitars I generally look over at least 5-6 of any
>make/model
>I'm looking at. Exceptions to this were when I bought my 64 Melody Maker; I
>bought it from a friend who got it for $40 at a garage sale. He was moving to
>Boston and didn't want to pack 2 guitars (you'd think he would let me have a
>stab at his ES 335, but NOOOOOOOO), and when I bought my 79 Strat. They
>didn't
>have another one in the Crimson Transparent finish and I really had to have
>it!!!
>
>The key is to play a bunch of 'em and weed out the clunkers...
howldog
<kill...@iprimus.com.au> wrote:
>
>I thought you were telling me how hot epiphone was now you're saying the
>newer ones aren't so hot ?
>
>
anthony, you might want to er um rethink yer position a little bit
here. Most of these people yer arguing with, are folks from the guitar
groups, I've heard their CDs, they are all unilaterally terrific
guitarists, very knowledgeable, some of them are even consultants to
the manufacturers etc.
in short, you probly need to take a deep breath and come up for air.
the simple fact is, some of the new Epiphones are excellent guitars,
altho the hardware and lectronix aint so hot, those can be switched
out, and then you have an excellent guitar. I've been looking for an
Epi with the slim 60s tapered neck for awhile. I'd buy it in a
heartbeat, over a Gibson. Save myself a lot of money and nobody, not
you, not Unicorn, probly not even Page, would be able to tell any
difference. Because tone is all in the brain. Not the gear.
howldog
wrote:
>> Do enlighten us, which Led Zeppelin classics were his tele and which were
>> done with a LP ?
>
>Why should she? You have a computer.
>*s*
this was banded about over at the Zeppinhood group, and the last time
I checked, not a single person over there had the first clue as to
what might be Tele and what might be Les Paul, except for the things
that Page admitted.
Tele = entire first record, probly the Lemon Song and maybe Moby Dick
from II, Dancing Days, the Ocean, Dyer Maker, and the solos to Song
Remains the Same. Parts of Ten Years Gone. Most of Hot Dog.
just speculation....
howldog
(TheUnicornGarden) wrote:
>In your opinion. Like Anthony said before, you can hear the difference in tone
>in different instruments if you listen. I'm sure even you could if you took
>the same amp at a store and plugged in different guitars.
Gee whiz! Really? Do ya think?
alright.
go here
and tell me which tune I recorded with a borrowed Epiphone, and which
two I recorded with the Gibson. And while yer at it, with your
infinite wisdom and your glorious discerning ear, tell me what the
other guitar I used was.
or go here
http://members.nbci.com/howldoggie
and do the same thing. Epiphone on a couple of things, Gibson on a
couple, and a few other instruments.
dollars to donuts, you cant do it, or you'll make some excuse.
David P. Richardson
before, no star power.
the next guitar hero could use a Gibson RD or a L6s or maurarder (SP?)and boy
would they come up from the $300/$400 price range.
DPR
howldog
<dave_ri...@mhri.org> wrote:
>Plus they used Les Pauls because they were realatively cheap. No one used them
>before, no star power.
good point. Page has been described as a cheapskate, it's almost
certain that he paid Joe Walsh less than the 50-100K a guitar like
that would sell for now ;-)
I read a similar sotry about Fender, how they were about to
discontinue the Stratocaster in the 60s, because of the popularity of
Jaguars and Mustangs, and then Hendrix came along.
TheUnicornGarden
Yeah, I could probably listen to your tracks and figure out that you are using
a different instrument on whichever track, and probably even which it was. You
aren't trying to sound like Page good enough to become a copy band, though, are
you? Or are you? I wonder, sometimes....
Then you could compare my answers to those of Dave or Anthony or others in this
NG, and you'd probably get the same answers, and you'd probably still jump my
case and try to say I cheated somehow. Why don't you spat with them? I
thought you'd plonked me, by the way....
teehee.
>Subject: Re: Jimmy Page Tone With Epiphone Les Paul?
>From: how...@yahoo.com (howldog)
>Date: 7/10/01 10:40 AM Central Daylight Time
>Message-id: <3b4b17eb....@news.atl.bellsouth.net>
Giri Iyengar
I think Murphy faked all the other clips Page never posted.
..Giri
TheUnicornGarden
You'll get total agreement with me on the fact that tone is all in the
brain--but I feel, IMHO, that it comes from the brain of the player, not the
listener. Tone, too, will come from modifications made to the guitar. From
what I've read, Jimmy rarely played a stock anything--he changed parts out of
many guitars. You can add whatever you want to whatever you want, though, and
it will sound different with each permutation. You will find good Epis and you
will find good LPs, but unless you pick up the guitar and play it, you have no
idea how it will sound or feel. True, if you are a master, you can coax good
sounds out of any guitar, but I can tell the difference between Stairway live
on an old recording and TSRTS without seeing that Jimmy is playing different
guitars on the video--a Tele just doesn't sound like an SG, sorry. I like
both--it's up to the player to decide which he likes to play better, and if he
can get a likeable tone by ripping up and modifying a cheaper model, great!
Most beginners can only afford one guitar, and you can get a similar tone off
of both, with the Epi being cheaper, but I've seen many a used LP reasonably
priced, too. If you have doubts, take a more seasoned guitarist and have them
play your choices and hear what the instrument could sound like once you get
your chops up. If you are experienced, trust your own judgement. You,
ultimately have to play that guitar, not someone else, so who cares what they
think, as long as you do the job--if you need to look like Zep, most audience
members won't care or know if it's not an LP or that Page didn't always use
one. If you play the music well enough, most would be perfectly happy!
>Subject: Re: Jimmy Page Tone With Epiphone Les Paul?
>From: how...@yahoo.com (howldog)
>Date: 7/10/01 10:15 AM Central Daylight Time
>Message-id: <3b4b1afe....@news.atl.bellsouth.net>
howldog
(TheUnicornGarden) wrote:
>>> Why don't you spat with them?
because they arent constantly telling us how great they are, like you
do, yet you have yet to post any kind of impressive guitar work at
all. These other people just say they are guitar players, pretty
humble about it, they dont post these self-serving missives about how
the Heartbreaker solo is easy compared to their fingerpicking. I don't
take you seriously except to laugh at you and your lofty prose and
your hilarious "expertise".
I did plonk you, but i unsubbed, and then Anthony cross-posted this
thread to the guitar newsgroups, and I read it there. So i subbed back
on here to attempt to get him to calm down, without doing it "in
front" of the guitar group. Calling great players like Nunya a
"dickhead" isnt exactly doing wonders for his "image" over there.
Dont worry, I'll unsub soon enough and you can have your little
captive audience all to yourself again. Hey, at least your little list
sister Cid thinks you're terrific. But then she might be too busy to
worship you properly, as she has to keep up her 20+ songs a day.
To the original question, you couldnt tell the difference between me
and a typical Gibson Les Paul, and me with an very good Epi Les Paul
that had some lectronix modifications. You couldnt tell the difference
with Page playing the same two guitars either. Altho he could possibly
abuse Robert better with the Epi.
Sure, you could fool yourself into thinking that you could hear the
difference when you hacked yer way thru something.. but then you're
great at fooling yourself into hearing lots of things. Find a great
sounding Epi, put some killer pickups in it, it will blow the doors
off many a crap Les Paul coming out of Nashville right now. It could
sound every bit as good as Page's 58. Especially with some killer
shredder like you playing it.
Twang
Giri Iyengar <giye...@ford.com> wrote in message
news:3B4B2AC2...@ford.com...
> howldog wrote:
> >
> > On Tue, 10 Jul 2001 08:56:22 -0500, "Twang" <twang...@dtgnet.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> > >> Do enlighten us, which Led Zeppelin classics were his tele and which
were
> > >> done with a LP ?
> > >
> > >Why should she? You have a computer.
> > >*s*
> >
> > this was banded about over at the Zeppinhood group, and the last time
> > I checked, not a single person over there had the first clue as to
> > what might be Tele and what might be Les Paul, except for the things
> > that Page admitted.
> >
> > Tele = entire first record, probly the Lemon Song and maybe Moby Dick
> > from II, Dancing Days, the Ocean, Dyer Maker, and the solos to Song
> > Remains the Same. Parts of Ten Years Gone.
> > Most of Hot Dog.
I always wondered what was in those things.
Twang!
howldog
(TheUnicornGarden) wrote:
>Yeah, I could probably listen to your tracks and figure out that you are using
>a different instrument on whichever track, and probably even which it was.
go ahead then, smarty pants.
This i MUST see.
howldog
(TheUnicornGarden) wrote:
From
>what I've read, Jimmy rarely played a stock anything--he changed parts out of
>many guitars.
I guess. From what I have been led to believe, his 58 is very close to
being "stock" and you might very well be hearing that on a lot of
recordings. I dont know.
>
but I can tell the difference between Stairway live
>on an old recording and TSRTS without seeing that Jimmy is playing different
>guitars on the video--a Tele just doesn't sound like an SG, sorry.
Page had the doubleneck almost from the beginning of when the began
playing Stairway live. Almost every single live version of it was
recorded with the doubleneck. He never played Stairway live with a
Telecaster.
No one is saying a Telecaster sounds like an SG. However, how many
people "knew" Page used a Telecaster to record the studio solo to
Stairway? I mean before he admitted it? I sure didnt.
Twang
howldog <how...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:3b4b2c89....@news.atl.bellsouth.net...
Strats and teles had low status when I started getting into the more
expensive guitars.. following our local areas cache of danelectro silvertone
amp in case models, silvertone copies of les pauls and jazzmasters, the odd
four pickup teisco.
This would be from 65 to 67.
I wish I could remember the exact bullshit we all bought into at the
time, I'm hoping there was some outside excuse (music store salesmanship) as
well as what I know there is some inner truth to, which is we seemed to tend
to think strats and teles were for fifties guys. We just wanted something
different.
Eventually we learned to differentiate on objective terms, but at first,
word of mouth, which is town to town, music store to music store, dance to
dance information, was the only real source.
I doubt you could find a book at the library on guitar then at all.
Certainly no internet. None of the great magazines that we have were out
there. (take a good look at some old tiger beat or hit parader magazines
sometime.. yeeesh.)
And look at how full of shit people still can be, just through
misinformation, incomplete information... normal stuff with no blame
attachments.
But I'll spare you anymore trips down memory lane on this one.
Still, If I'd bought that 57 tele for the 110.00 asking price, and kept my
50 chevy 210.. the green pumpernickel...(it was light green faded by sun..
it looked to me like a large loaf of bread gone bad), stuck my 66 fender
bassman with the extra two 12 cab in the trunk...and parked it all in the
garage....
I'd be pretty happy ---and that's not even the best stuff that passed
through my idjuts hands.
Twang!
Sam
>people "knew" Page used a Telecaster to record the studio solo to
>Stairway?
I know from the first time I listened to it that it was a Fender he used on
that solo, and certainly not a Les Paul. It might have been different with a
load of effects on it, but with such a pure tone, that couldn't have been
something else than a Fender.
I couldn't have told 100% it was his'58 Tele, but for sure, I knew it was not a
Les Paul.
Peace,
Sam
Steve Christie
virtually valerie wrote in message
>
>I played a whole GC full of crap Les Pauls over the weekend. Then I
>went to Mars and played a whole store of crap Epiphones, altho there
>were a couple of nice Epis. One Gibson Les Paul, a 57 goldtop classic,
>priced at over 2700 dollars, wouldnt even stay in tune. Pitiful.
>
>Gibson Quality Control.
>
>Oxymoron.
each other. You got 3 :)
Clever Steve.
Oxymoron.
Steve Christie
Nunya Bidni wrote in message
>
>"Steve Christie" <St...@deeppurple.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
>news:9iahsb$d02$1...@newsg3.svr.pol.co.uk...
>>
>> Nunya Bidni wrote in message
>> <9FT17.117462$mG4.57...@news1.mntp1.il.home.com>...
>> >
>> >"Anthony" <kill...@iprimus.com.au> wrote in message
>> >news:3b47...@news.iprimus.com.au...
>> >> Not Bullshit.
>> >>
>> >> Never alluded to a holy grail of musical instrument perfection though
>if
>> >> someone offered me a 58 or 59 LP or an epi mexi-les I know which one
>I'd
>> >> take. Though of course if the mexi les had a better neck, and
>electronics
>> >of
>> >> course I'd take that. But then again is that likely ??
>> >
>> >You've proven you don't know about the Epis to substantiate your
>argument.
>> >
>> >
>> >If someone offers you one of two guitars, a '59 Les Paul or a Epi Les
>Paul
>> >Standard, as a player, which one do you take home?
>> >
>> >Now here's the answer:
>> >
>> >The one that sounds better. Strictly as a player, that's the only thing
>> >that matters.
>>
the
>> Epi. For an expensive (`keeper`) guitar durability is important. I think
>95%
>> of us would officially go for the Gibson above the Epi and secretly we
all
>> would.
>
>All things being equal, I agree. But, to blindly assume every Gibson made
>will sound better than every Epi made is foolish at best. I've played some
>absolutely dogshit Les Pauls. That said, I really dig my SG.
I'm thinking of buying an SG Standard, v. good condition, 5 years old, one
careful owner @ Ł540. Any advice appreciated :)
PS: Know of any good/cheap places in Britain (esp. Scotland/Edinburgh) which
sell 'em?
>
>
>> >The fact remains that Jimmy Page could reproduce his signature Les Paul
>> tone
>> >on a Epi Les Paul (or for that matter, a PRS McCarty) just as easily as
>he
>> >could on a '59 LP.
>
>This statement stands.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>> >> Nunya Bidni wrote in message ...
>> >> :
>> >> :"Anthony" <kill...@iprimus.com.au> wrote in message
>> >> :news:3b47...@news.iprimus.com.au...
>> >> :> BTW I do not necessarily want to emulate or approximate Page
either.
>> >> :> My point is simply that Gibson have been making better guitars a
lot
>> >> :longer
>> >> :> than epiphone and that you are more likely to get a better sound
>> >through
>> >> a
>> >> :> Gibosn. Have a listen to Dazed and Conused off TSRTS and tell me if
>> the
>> >> :> tones in that song (if your ear can recognise such subtlety) can be
>> >> :produced
>> >> :> from an epiphone, regardless of the fingers powering it.
>> >> :
>> >> :That's bullshit. Plenty of manufacturers make good mahogany bodied
>> >guitars
>> >> :with maple caps. My ear has been recognising "that kind of subtlety"
>> for
>> >> 15
>> >> :years of playing. Don't delude yourself into thinking there's a
"Holy
>> >> :grail" instrument required for reproducing those tones.
>> >> :
>> >> :
>> >> :
>> >> :
>> >> :
>> >> :> Nunya Bidni wrote in message ...
>> >> :> :
>> >> :> :"Anthony" <kill...@iprimus.com.au> wrote in message
>> >> :> :news:3b47d33a$1...@news.iprimus.com.au...
>> >> :> :>
>> >> :> :>
>> >> :> :> So I looked at my fingers and I said "toneful fingers do your
>> >stuff"
>> >> :> know
>> >> :> :> what happened ? Nothing. My fingers just stared back at me not
>> >> :producing
>> >> :> a
>> >> :> :> sound. Though I think I did hear my left ring finger mutter "I'd
>> >> prefer
>> >> :a
>> >> :> :> Gibson Les Paul to and Epiphone, preferably a 58 or 59". To
which
>> my
>> >> :> :> forefinger replied "yeah dude, epi's suck".
>> >> :> :
>> >> :> :
>> >> :> :Your fingers will do a hell of a lot more for you approximating
>Page
>> >> than
>> >> :> :ANY Les Paul will. If I have to explain that, you haven't been
>> >playing
>> >> :> long
>> >> :> :enough.
>> >> :> :
>> >> :> :
>> >> :> :
>> >> :> :> Nunya Bidni wrote in message ...
>> >> :> :> :
>> >> :> :> :"Anthony" <kill...@iprimus.com.au> wrote in message
>> >> :> :> :news:3b46...@news.iprimus.com.au...
>> >> :> :> :> even if he was he wouldn't sound as good through those toy
>pick
>> >> ups.
>> >> :> :> :
>> >> :> :> :You don't know that, and can't predict it. Most of a players's
>> >tone
>> >> :is
>> >> :> :in
>> >> :> :> :their fingers- the rest just helps.
>> >> :> :> :
>> >> :> :> :
>> >> :> :> :
>> >> :> :> :
>> >> :> :> :> Nunya Bidni wrote in message ...
>> >> :> :> :> :
>> >> :> :> :> :"Anthony" <kill...@iprimus.com.au> wrote in message
>> >> :> :> :> :news:3b46...@news.iprimus.com.au...
>> >> :> :> :> :> listen to dazed and confused off tsrts. now do you think
an
>> >$400
>> >> :> :> guitar
>> >> :> :> :> is
>> >> :> :> :> :> going to sound that good ?
>> >> :> :> :> :
>> >> :> :> :> :That depends. Is Jimmy Page playing it?
>> >> :> :> :> :
>> >> :> :> :> :
>> >> :> :> :> :
>> >> :> :> :> :
>> >> :> :> :> :
>> >> :> :> :> :> Jarl Sigurd wrote in message ...
>> >> :> :> :> :> :I have a friend who is putting together a Led Zepellin
>> >tribute
>> >> :> :band.
>> >> :> :> :> :> :He feels that in order to acheive an authentic look he
>needs
>> >a
>> >> :Les
>> >> :> :> :> :> :Paul. His dilema is whether to shell out and get a
Gibson
>> or
>> >> :> :> :> :> :save money and get an Epiphone. Seeing as a lot of the
>Led
>> >> :> :> :> :> :Zeppelin recordings were done using a Telecaster or
>> >Danelectro,
>> >> :> :> :> :> :wouldn't the brighter sound of an Epiphone suit the music
>> >> :better?
>> >> :> :> :> :> :Which brand of Les Paul would you recommend he buy?
>> >> :> :> :> :> :
>> >> :> :> :> :> :Jarl Sigurd
>> >> :> :> :> :> :
>> >> :> :> :> :> :to listen to two songs written and recorded by Jarl
Sigurd
>> >> :> :> :> :> :visit: http://www.ampcast.com/search/band.php?id=9098
>> >> :> :> :> :> :
>> >> :> :> :> :> :
>> >> :> :> :> :> :
>> >> :> :> :> :>
>> >> :> :> :> :>
>> >> :> :> :> :
>> >> :> :> :> :
>> >> :> :> :>
>> >> :> :> :>
>> >> :> :> :
>> >> :> :> :
>> >> :> :>
>> >> :> :>
>> >> :> :
>> >> :> :
>> >> :>
>> >> :>
>> >> :
>> >> :
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>
>
Nunya Bidni
Sorry- I'm not familiar with any dealers on your side of the pond. :(
What is 540 Pounds in $US, anyway?
Nunya Bidni
> Well that was pretty stupid of you wasn't it. ! Don't you know gibson is
> also a better investment ?
I buy 'em to play. You should try it!
> How long did you say you been playin guitar
15 years- and yourself?
Nunya Bidni
Also the solo in "Stairway." Confirmed by Page himself, IIRC.
Nunya Bidni
> :"Anthony" <kill...@iprimus.com.au> wrote in message
> :news:3b47...@news.iprimus.com.au...
> :> Not Bullshit.
> :>
> :> Never alluded to a holy grail of musical instrument perfection though
if
> :> someone offered me a 58 or 59 LP or an epi mexi-les I know which one
I'd
> :> take. Though of course if the mexi les had a better neck, and
electronics
> :of
> :> course I'd take that. But then again is that likely ??
> :
> :You've proven you don't know about the Epis to substantiate your
argument.
>
>
> about the Epis to substantiate your argument." imagining that just by
skills
> whatsoever and as a guitar collector I imagine you've collected a pile of
> shit over the years knowing so little quality or a good investment.
I'll remind you I'm a PLAYER and not a COLLECTOR. Do you understand the
differerence?
Finally, the way you know what a "quality" instrument is is by playing them,
not by looking at pictures of them or checking their values in a collector's
guide. Can you comprehend that?
> I have not with my previous staemement proven I know nothing about
> epiphones. I have it on very good advice that an electronics swap is in
> order in any epi LP needs an electronics swap. If the guitar is so fucking
> good it begs the simple but necessary question. Why would you need to do
> that if it's so good ?
Why don't you ask the same question of ANYONE that's ever swapped the
pickups on a Les Paul? There's plenty of them in RMMG.
> Swapped any epi pickups lately to make them sound more like a Gibson ?
Nope. But the one I bought had $250 worth of active EMGs in it, so I didn't
see a need.
> :Here's the question:
> :
> :If someone offers you one of two guitars, a '59 Les Paul or a Epi Les
Paul
> :Standard, as a player, which one do you take home?
> :
> :Now here's the answer:
> :
> :The one that sounds better. Strictly as a player, that's the only thing
> :that matters.
>
> yeah you're right that late model tone wood is gonna sound 40 years better
> than one of them old crappy Gibsons now isn't it. lol
Unless you PLAY the fucking things, you'd NEVER know. Sound doesn't come
out of a catalog.
> :The fact remains that Jimmy Page could reproduce his signature Les Paul
> tone
> :on a Epi Les Paul (or for that matter, a PRS McCarty) just as easily as
he
> :could on a '59 LP.
>
> With them great epi pickups ripped out (save 'em they'll be 'vintage epi
> pickups' in 2025 - worth a mint !) and swapped to sound like a gibson, and
> the wood (real asian tone wood - six-ply of it ) being so spanking new.
You
> are soooo right.
More than you could possibly know. But then, all you do is collect them, so
what would you know about the effect fingers, a brain, and phrasing have on
tone?
> Do you know you are one of the wisest people I've ever met,
Count on it. So are most of the people here in RMMG, many of them gigging
musicians, some of them session players. You'll note they're not in any
rush to side with you.
Nunya Bidni
> :
> :"virtually valerie" <ama...@diablo.com> wrote in message
> :news:3b49e37d....@news.atl.bellsouth.net...
> :>
> :> I played a whole GC full of crap Les Pauls over the weekend. Then I
> :> went to Mars and played a whole store of crap Epiphones, altho there
> :> were a couple of nice Epis. One Gibson Les Paul, a 57 goldtop classic,
> :> priced at over 2700 dollars, wouldnt even stay in tune. Pitiful.
> :>
> :> Gibson Quality Control.
> :>
> :> Oxymoron.
> :
> :I was absolutely lucky with my SG, but I got it used, 2 years old, from
the
> :original owner. I figured if it sucked, he wouldn't have kept it that
long.
> ::)
> :
>
>
> maybe the pawn shop wouldn't buy it.
Of course, the big difference is that I can play it, while you'd stare at
it, drool, and look it up in a catalog to determine its worth. Then, you'd
put it back in the case and brag to all of your friends that you're a guitar
"player" because you own a Gibson.
Les Cargill
"David P. Richardson" wrote:
>
> Plus they used Les Pauls because they were realatively cheap. No one used them
> before, no star power.
>
> the next guitar hero could use a Gibson RD or a L6s or maurarder (SP?)and boy
> would they come up from the $300/$400 price range.
>
Those were/are also very good guitars. I don't think you're gonna get
away from the Les Paul thing because of the sound, and the
level of Guitar Hero-dom associated with it. Maybe if twelve
consecutive guitar heros used, say, Marauders.
The Marauder in particular was a nice axe.
Anthony
are your then Nunya ?
Anthony
Gibson LP. Now they're talking about ripping out pickups and what not. Seems
to me then they're not quite as good and you'd have to modify an epi to get
the same tone.
Then there's the question of wood aging affecting the tone of the wood.
I really don't give a shit how legendary they might think they are, to my
way of thinking they don't seem to know half as much as they think they do
if not one of them argued that.
howldog wrote in message <3b4b1afe....@news.atl.bellsouth.net>...
:On Tue, 10 Jul 2001 23:23:08 -0700, "Anthony"
:
Nunya Bidni
> are your then Nunya ?
Good enough to not judge a guitar by a label on the headstock. Figure out
the rest for yourself.
Anthony
epi = electronically inferior.
TheUnicornGarden
Almost every single live version of it was
>recorded with the doubleneck. He never played Stairway live with a
>Telecaster.
Oh, really? He was playing Stairway with a blonde tele just the other night on
PBS--I guess it was a very early gig, looking at the clothes, Robert's hair and
the sound. They then showed Jimmy playing it again with the SG in an obviously
later gig. That's what I get for watching PBS, I guess.
Have to admit, I didn't know about it at the time, since I was just learning
how to play guitar and didn't know who Zep was. Once I learned about Zep, I
knew almost immediately, since I was reading just the interviews, and never was
exposed to the gossip. Lucky me, I guess.
Nunya Bidni
> the bottom line is. . .
>
> epi = electronically inferior.
You could say the same of a lot of Gibsons, based on the testimony of other
experienced players posting in this thread. In the hands of any player
that's worth a shit, it's not something that will change their fundamental
tone- which is why you can still tell it's Jimmy Page if he's playing a
Tele, or a Danelectro (which also had "inferior" electronics).
After you've spent a little more time playing than you have reading catalogs
or posturing over the value of "vintage" instruments, this will all become
clear to you. In the meanwhile, you'd do well to listen to the people who
posted in this thread.
Anthony
Dan Stanley wrote in message ...
:
:"Anthony" <kill...@iprimus.com.au> wrote in message
:news:3b4b...@news.iprimus.com.au...:> :"Anthony" <kill...@iprimus.com.au> wrote in message
:> :news:3b47...@news.iprimus.com.au...
:> :> Not Bullshit.
:> :>
:> :> Never alluded to a holy grail of musical instrument perfection though
:if
:> :> someone offered me a 58 or 59 LP or an epi mexi-les I know which one
:I'd
:> :> take. Though of course if the mexi les had a better neck, and
:electronics
:> :of
:> :> course I'd take that. But then again is that likely ??
:> :
:> :You've proven you don't know about the Epis to substantiate your
:argument.
:>
:>
:> Nope. Wrong. You've just made a statement "You've proven you don't know
:> about the Epis to substantiate your argument." imagining that just by
:> maiking that statement you have proven a point.
:
:Well, see, you sort of suggested that Epis are made in Mexico, which pretty
:much indicates that you don't know much about them at all. Because they
:aren't. Made in Mexico. You know. ( I'm using small phrases like that to
aid
:you in your comprehension. Thank me later)
Thanks you ? Samick suck as well. ! ! !
: > I have not with my previous staemement proven I know nothing about
:> epiphones.
:
:Only that you don't know where they are made. Don't worry about it, it
:doesn't really matter.
Over it, doesn't matter anyway. Somewhere in Southe East Asia ? India ? how
about Pakistan ?
:
:> I have it on very good advice that an electronics swap is in
:> order in any epi LP needs an electronics swap. If the guitar is so
fucking
:> good it begs the simple but necessary question. Why would you need to do
:> that if it's so good ?
:
:Because those are the parts that aren't so good. You hard of thinking?
No are you thickhead ?. The discussion was "epi are just as good as a 58 or
59 G LP". Obviously they can't be if you've gotta rip shit out of them and
replace parts. Wake up to yourself and stop tossing off. At least know what
you waffle on about before you start.
:
:> Swapped any epi pickups lately to make them sound more like a Gibson ?
:
:Yup. Swapped out Epi 'buckers for some Rio Grande BBQ Buckers.
:I also swapped some Gibson 49x pickups out of my gen-yoo-ine Gibson Les
:Paul, and replaced them with Rio Grande Texas Humbuckers. Now the guitar
:sounds "more like a Gibson" than it ever did before.
To You. So it holds then that every Gibson needs a pick up swap just like an
epi because you did it ? Is this the point of your argument ?
:
:> :Here's the question:
plywood and chipboard ! !
:
:Hunk of mahogany, maple cap, mahogany set neck. In the case of the Epi, the
:body is usually more than one piece, in the case of the Gibson, it
:occasionally is. The maple cap on the Epi is 1/8 less thick than the
:Gibson's. Both the Epi and Gibson, these days, have CNC carved neck
:joints...I'd go so far as to say that new Epi's are more consistantly good
:than the Gibsons of the late 50's in that regard.
poppycock ! !
:
:Gibson uses shitty tuners, so does Epi. New Gibsons come through with those
:characterless 490 and 496 or whatever they call 'em pickups, new Epis get
:some pretty lame pickups too.
oh, new gibsons now ?
:
:SO would rather pay a boatload of money for a guitar on which you need to
:change tuners and pickups, or a sensible amount of money for a guitar that
:needs new tuners and pickups?
:
:Assuming that you are going to PLAY it, and not use it as a status symbol,
:that is?
talking about the newer gibson or the 59 or 58 ? I've already said I would
have bought an epi the other day had I had the money or don't you read too
well ? If ever I bought a vintage guitar it would be for an investment not a
status symbol and the thing with a guitar for an investment is you don't
ruin your investment by playing it. I guess the answer to this argument is
when these epi Les Pauls are of vintage age how well they hold their value.
Ya know, you don't seem to hear that much about vintage Ibanez Les Pauls now
do ya, considering they's all be about 25 years old.
:
:Dan
yep me and my 2001 vintage epi are going to dominate the world of newsgroup
guitar heroes.
:
:
:
Dan Stanley
vintage
> Gibson LP.
No it wasn't.
Do you know Polfus? You two will be great friends, I can tell.
TheUnicornGarden
I don't claim to be a great shredder, I simply claim I can play Page's stuff,
as can many others on this ng (many of which are female, and can also play the
stuff). I bet you can, too. I've been playing guitar over 25 years, so, yes,
I know a little, and have a good set of ears, as do many others on this NG. So
what? And if you've altered your instruments enough to change the original
tone, no, I might not guess them correctly--who cares? To be honest, I have
more important things to do in my life than listen to your chain-yanking. You
aren't the only person in this ng that has talent, btw.
I think I did say that you could take the guts out of an Epi, and it would
sound better than a crap Les Paul--so why are you still being silly? I think
we agree, goofball--why don't you read what I write instead of ignoring it
because a woman singer/songwriter wrote it? I think you have some issues to
resolve, dude, and they have nothing to do with me. The fact that you get so
emotional proves that you are projecting a personal problem into this--why
don't you deal with that and get a grip? Look into the mirror before you start
taking down Anthony, me or anyone who dares to possibly know as much as you do,
here, and this will be a better place to post.
You may plonk me, now--go back and hide in your little mean-dude world. Put on
the Spiderman PJs and do a little writing while you are there--I still think
you've got loads of talent that needs to be tapped, and you will probably
continue to be nasty until you finally get an original "picked up." If you
spent more time doing that rather than tweaking your guitars, maybe you'll get
somewhere. The fact that you keep tossing in Nashville and whether or not I
can play an instrument with your diatribes tells me that this pains you
somehow. Sorry about that, but the pain won't stop by putting us down--it'll
stop when you stop feeling the need to be better than everyone else.
Anyone can take a crap guitar and make it sound good with a bunch of expensive
modifications--we are talking about a Led Zep copy band trying to get Jimmy's
sound out of a simple, easy to get instrument, or perhaps using simple
modifications. If the player feels like he's getting into Jimmy's character
for the stage by using an Epi, great! If he feels he needs a Les Paul, fine!
I used to use a nice Ibanez LP copy that I loved to play--and that model
supposedly got Ibanez sued (and they lost) by Gibson because the copy was so
good. Price--$200. Sounded great, thin neck, and if I regret to this day that
I was so broke I had to sell it--I'm still looking for another. Perhaps this
would be a good solution? Didn't fall out of tune every other song like my
then lead guitarist's actual LP, either....
Teehee.
>Subject: Re: Jimmy Page Tone With Epiphone Les Paul?
>From: how...@yahoo.com (howldog)
>Date: 7/10/01 12:22 PM Central Daylight Time
>Message-id: <3b4b32a4....@news.atl.bellsouth.net>
Dan Stanley
> the bottom line is. . .
>
> epi = electronically inferior.
No, wait, there is a line below that, let me put on my reading glasses:
It say:
"This guitar can be brought to the exact same spec as any off the wall
Gibson LP, for the cost of a pair of pickups, four pots and a couple
capacitors you can find at any radio shack and a little wire. But go ahead
and spend a little more, and it'll be BETTER"
Anthony
Nunya Bidni wrote in message ...:news:3b4b...@news.iprimus.com.au...
:>
:> Nunya Bidni wrote in message
:> <9FT17.117462$mG4.57...@news1.mntp1.il.home.com>...
:> :
:> :"Anthony" <kill...@iprimus.com.au> wrote in message
:> :news:3b47...@news.iprimus.com.au...
:> :> Not Bullshit.
:> :>
:> :> Never alluded to a holy grail of musical instrument perfection though
:if
:> :> someone offered me a 58 or 59 LP or an epi mexi-les I know which one
:I'd
:> :> take. Though of course if the mexi les had a better neck, and
:electronics
:> :of
:> :> course I'd take that. But then again is that likely ??
:> :
:> :You've proven you don't know about the Epis to substantiate your
:argument.
:>
:>
:> Nope. Wrong. You've just made a statement "You've proven you don't know
:> about the Epis to substantiate your argument." imagining that just by
:> maiking that statement you have proven a point. You have no debating
:skills
:> whatsoever and as a guitar collector I imagine you've collected a pile of
:> shit over the years knowing so little quality or a good investment.
:
:
:I'll remind you I'm a PLAYER and not a COLLECTOR. Do you understand the
:differerence?
I comprehend that you are an arrogant cunt. As for a PLAYER not a COLLECTOR,
what bands have you been in where's your website oh self prasing internet
guitar god ?
:
:Finally, the way you know what a "quality" instrument is is by playing
them,
:not by looking at pictures of them or checking their values in a
collector's
:guide. Can you comprehend that?
Ever worn Spandex and had teased hair ?
So basically you are saying you know nothing about the investment value of
guitars?
You sounded like a flip to start with.
Can you comprehend that oh obnoxious internet wanking guitar guru ?
:
:
:
:> I have not with my previous staemement proven I know nothing about
:> epiphones. I have it on very good advice that an electronics swap is in
:> order in any epi LP needs an electronics swap. If the guitar is so
fucking
:> good it begs the simple but necessary question. Why would you need to do
:> that if it's so good ?
:
:
:
:Why don't you ask the same question of ANYONE that's ever swapped the
:pickups on a Les Paul? There's plenty of them in RMMG.
So waht you are saying is you've lost the argument and go pick on someone
else.
:
:
:> Swapped any epi pickups lately to make them sound more like a Gibson ?
:
:
:Nope. But the one I bought had $250 worth of active EMGs in it, so I
didn't
:see a need.
Already swapped out ? saved you the effort !
:
:
:
:> :Here's the question:
:> :
:> :If someone offers you one of two guitars, a '59 Les Paul or a Epi Les
:Paul
:> :Standard, as a player, which one do you take home?
:> :
:> :Now here's the answer:
:> :
:> :The one that sounds better. Strictly as a player, that's the only thing
:> :that matters.
:>
:> yeah you're right that late model tone wood is gonna sound 40 years
better
:> than one of them old crappy Gibsons now isn't it. lol
:
:Unless you PLAY the fucking things, you'd NEVER know. Sound doesn't come
:out of a catalog.
You're right I've never played a guitar a guitar in my life lol ! and
compared to you oh self praising internet guitar guru wanker I just wouldn't
hold a candle to tou. IN YOUR OPINION. All that spandex has over swollen
your brain now it floats in a sea of spandex swollen shit.
:
:
:> :The fact remains that Jimmy Page could reproduce his signature Les Paul
:> tone
:> :on a Epi Les Paul (or for that matter, a PRS McCarty) just as easily as
:he
:> :could on a '59 LP.
:>
:> With them great epi pickups ripped out (save 'em they'll be 'vintage epi
:> pickups' in 2025 - worth a mint !) and swapped to sound like a gibson,
and
:> the wood (real asian tone wood - six-ply of it ) being so spanking new.
:You
:> are soooo right.
:
:More than you could possibly know. But then, all you do is collect them, so
:what would you know about the effect fingers, a brain, and phrasing have on
:tone?
Insults on the internet by someone who has never heard me play really are
ridiculous come backs.
Onviously lost the argument now it's insult time .
:
:
:> Do you know you are one of the wisest people I've ever met,
:
:
:Count on it. So are most of the people here in RMMG, many of them gigging
:musicians, some of them session players.
Gee a real live playing musician. YAAAAAWWWWWN.
From what I've read I wouldn't want them on my side if they think a pick up
swap on a plywood copy makes a great guitar.
Happy vintage epi in 20 years time.
Vintage epi pick ups - oh joy !
Anthony
Nunya Bidni wrote in message ...
:
:news:3b4bc643$1...@news.iprimus.com.au...
:> the bottom line is. . .
:>
:> epi = electronically inferior.
:
:
:You could say the same of a lot of Gibsons, based on the testimony of other
:experienced players posting in this thread. In the hands of any player
:that's worth a shit, it's not something that will change their fundamental
:tone- which is why you can still tell it's Jimmy Page if he's playing a
:Tele, or a Danelectro (which also had "inferior" electronics).
Still going oh so sore loser ?
:
:After you've spent a little more time playing than you have reading
catalogs
:or posturing over the value of "vintage" instruments, this will all become
:clear to you. In the meanwhile, you'd do well to listen to the people who
:posted in this thread.
In the meanwhile. . . swap them pickups ! !
Don't own any catalogues. Perhaps you should play more yourself . Who is to
say you are any fucking good ?
:
:
Anthony
TheUnicornGarden wrote in message
<20010710103602...@ng-mr1.aol.com>...
:Last night on PBS, there was a section on Led Zeppelin that showed them
playing
:a gig in their early days, and Jimmy was playing a blonde Tele. I have to
say
:the sound was thinner and not as nice as later in the show when they showed
him
:playing the LP or the doubleneck SG. Each sounded like Zep, but the
"fatness"
:of the tone changed with each instrument. I like them all, but you choose
:which you like better...
:
:
:
:>Subject: Re: Jimmy Page Tone With Epiphone Les Paul?
:>From: "Anthony" kill...@iprimus.com.au
:>Date: 7/11/01 1:23 AM Central Daylight Time
:>Message-id: <3b4b...@news.iprimus.com.au>
:>
:>
:>Kate Ebneter wrote in message <3B4AA248...@ix.netcom.com>...
:>:Anthony wrote:
:>:>
:>:> Yeah you're sooooo right, I guess that's why musicians like Page choose
:>to
:>:> play 58 and 59 epiphone Les Pauls.
:>:
:>:If Epiphone had made Les Pauls in '58 and '59, they very well might.
:>:Old Epiphones were dandy guitars, first class quality all the way. The
:>:new ones aren't the same, of course, but they're still pretty nice
:>:guitars.
:>
:>I thought you were telling me how hot epiphone was now you're saying the
:>newer ones aren't so hot ?
:>
:>:
:>:'50s 'burst. I _am_ saying that (1) there are guitars being made now
:>:that are as good as those '50s bursts, and (2) there are very nice
:>:Epiphone Les Pauls, with which Jimmy Page could most certainly achieve
:>:"his tone" if he chose to do so. (And I'll remind you that many of
:>:Jimmy Page's classic tones were actually Telecasters, not Les Pauls.)
:>
:>
:>I doubt they are being made in Mexico, Japan or South East Asia.
:>
:>Do enlighten us, which Led Zeppelin classics were his tele and which were
:>done with a LP ?
:>:
:>:> Kate Ebneter wrote in message <3B49374D...@ix.netcom.com>...
:>:> :Anthony wrote:
:>:> :>
:>:> :> BTW I do not necessarily want to emulate or approximate Page either.
:>:> :> My point is simply that Gibson have been making better guitars a lot
:>:> longer
:>:> :> than epiphone and that you are more likely to get a better sound
:>through
:>:> a
:>:> :> Gibosn.
:>:> :Epiphone has been around as long as Gibson, FWIW. Of course, the
:>:> :guitars currently sold under the Epiphone name are made mostly by
:>:> :Samick, with a few exceptions.
:>:>
:>:> Plywood and chipboard.
:>
:>And now Gibson wants to buy Samick.
:>:
:>:Nope. Absolutely not. No chipboard, for sure. Some of the low-end
:>:Epis (like the bolt-neck Les Pauls) are probably laminated wood, but
:>:it's not "plywood" like you'd build a house out of. Gibson made Les
:>:Pauls with laminated bodies for years, you know. And the higher-end
:>:Epi Les Pauls are solid wood, with real maple caps, not just veneers.
:>:
:>:> :
:>:> :> Have a listen to Dazed and Conused off TSRTS and tell me if the
:>:> :> tones in that song (if your ear can recognise such subtlety) can be
:>:> produced
:>:> :> from an epiphone, regardless of the fingers powering it.
:>:> :Sure. Might depend a bit on the particular guitar, but there are
:>:> :Epiphone Les Pauls that are every bit as good as anything that Gibson
:>:> :currently makes, modulo possibly a pickup swap -- and even with the
:>:> :pickup swap, the Epi will be cheaper than the Gibson.
:>
:>Aren't we talking guitar as in all of the sum parts making the whole.
:>So you're admitting an epi les paul would require a pick up swap to sound
:>like a vintage Gibson Les Paul ?
:>
:>
:>:>
:>:> Yeah well there you're argument dies. Cheaper because the 58 or 59 is
a
:>:> better quality instrument.
:>:
:>:Not necessarily. A '58 or '59 'burst is expensive because it's rare,
:>:not necessarily because of its quality. If you were just paying for the
:>:guitar, I doubt you'd get more than a few grand for a '58/'59 'burst
:>:-- around what a modern equivalent sells for. There's a LOT of things
:>:that go into the price of any guitar, especially vintage collectables,
:>:and quality's only one of them, and most of the time it's not the most
:>:important one. Consider that the price of a '59 'burst may vary by
:>:more than a factor of two depending on how flamey the top is.
:>
:>Any luthier worth his salt will tell you that a quality instrument gets
:>better as the wood ages , so a lot of them old Gibsons (and epi's for
this
:>argument's sake) from the 50s, you'd imagine would be sounding pretty
sweet
:>about now. Aesthetics are going to come into price of course, but for the
:>purist, a well made instrument is only going to sound better with age but
:>you being an instrument collector should know that and it's interesting
that
:>this hasn't come up in any of your arguments. Or the fact that most epi
:>buyers turf the switch, the pots and the pick-ups because they have a
:>notorious reputation for fucking up. When you waffle on about quality you
:>should bear in mind the electrics as well ie the Whole guitar.. I nearly
put
:>a deposit on an epi a few weeks ago and had I had the money I would have.
:>The feedback I got was buy it but turf the electonics. The neck felt
pretty
:>good, though it felt a bit light. It was in a pawn shop not a music shop
so
:>I didn't get a good listen of it loud but it was alright. I wouldn't
:>necessarliy have put it up there with my 83 strat though.
:>
:>:
:>:> If this debate holds good. I guess you'd prefer to play a squier than a
:>65
:>:> stratocaster or 62 telecaster.
:>:
:>:I'd prefer to play whichever one is the better guitar. I don't find
:>:Squiers to be of as high quality as the high-end Epiphones. The Fender
:>:equivalent would prolly be a Mexican Strat. Similar quality, similar
:>:issues with the electronics.
:>
:>
:>Be interseting to see how these wonderful late model epis you espouse hold
:>their value when they vintage. Guess you won't find one with orignal pick
:>ups and I doubt you'll see your kids rushing to buy epi 01 reissues with
:>'vintage epi pickups' in them. There ya go, but being the collector you
are
:>if you buy 'em all up now you'll scoop up in another 25 years ! ! lol
:>
:>:
:>:I promise you, you put a pair of PAFs or PAF-equivalents in an Epi Les
:>:Paul, you'll be pretty hard-pressed to tell that it's not a Gibson.
:>
:>There ya go again swapping pick ups to make one guitar sound like it's big
:>brother ! !
:>
:>:
:>:Kate Ebneter
:>:Collector of Noise Toys
:>
:>
:>
:>
:>
:>
:>
:>
:
: