John Paul Jones...why was he screwed over?
MOBY4DICK
This is my first time posting on this news group, and quite frankly didn't know
this existed! Very cool, nice to be posting with a bunch of people sharing my
love of what became the greatest band I'd gotten into during my teen years in
the latter day 70's. Hope to be part of some really cool discussions.
So here we go.
What the hell is with Page/Plant totally blowing off Jones? I cannot
understand it, and have never heard a good explanation from the boys. I would
like to hear from anyone who's heard or read anything definitive. How
unfucking cool is it for Jones to find out about a regrouping and tour from the
newspaper?
Back in '95 when the Unleaded thing was happening, Page/Plant were on a Rock
Line call in show. Obviously, it was unbelievable to hear that the boys were
going to back together and touring. However, one guy called in with the
obvious 2,000# gorilla question and comment. Went something like this...
Caller: ".....with John Paul Jones being such an integral part of the band,
can you explain why he wasn't invited to be a part of this reunion?"
Plant: "Well, me and Page got together, it was a very spur of the moment
thing, and we just started writing material, and it just flowed together. It
just took on a momentum of it's own, and there wasn't time to call up John Paul
Jones."
Page: "I just have to say something right here, you know, it was 4 people that
made up the band, and it wasn't one person who made it all happen".
Note: These are not exact quotes, but coming from memory from 3 years ago at
11:00 at night. But that's the gist of what they said. And for Page to get
indignant just shows to me that he knows they're being assholes about Jones.
Forgetting the phone number? Give me a break. No time due to "momentum"? How
about calling him before the tour? How about getting him in at some point in
between? They flat out decided to leave him out. I have to say to everyone,
when I saw the tour this past year, when they did No Quarter, I felt a terrible
injustice seeing someone filling in for Jones. It was a great show,
absolutely, with the boys in condition I didn't expect, but still, Jones should
have been there.
So what gives?
My theory is that Plant is an ultra control freak now, since Zeppelin split
initially, an he probably felt that Jones, being a producer on his own, would
be the chef insisting on changing the recipe. With Charlie Jones from his old
band, no flak from him. And Jimmy with no backbone to stand up to Plant.
That's my theory and I'm sticking with it.
If anyone has any hard news, I'd love to hear it. BTW, anyone know about a
second US leg of their tour? Are they coming around again?
As for the present condition of P/P, they do sound amazing, with Page's chops
as good as anything I've heard from their heyday. After suffering through the
Atlantic Records show, Live Aid, and a guest appearance with Plant at
Knebworth, it is a thing of beauty to hear Page play as well as he does, and
Plant to be able to sing without cracking, having figured in a key that works
for him.
Would like to hear from anyone having excellent recordings of the Clarksdale
tour; I taped the one off the radio on DAT. Have some very good quality
boots.
Cheers to all, nice to be surrounded by other's who have the "Jones" for
Zeppelin!
Ascesis8
>>>My theory is that Plant is an ultra control freak now... And Jimmy with no
backbone to stand up to Plant. <<<
Robert a control freak and Jimmy with no back bone?? Was I wrong to think all
this time that those two are completely *opposite* from how they were just
described??
Someone help me out here!
Jenna
Joe C. Hecht
1) Jonsey almost quit Led Zeppelin twice. THere was a devotion factor.
2) Would have been to close to a Led Zep reunion.
3) Money Split two major ways instead of three.
4) Charlie Jones is Roberts son in law. (Keep in in the family).
5) "Page and Plant" sound good, but "Jones, Page and Plant" has
a funny ring to it.
Send me your trading list.
Joe
--
Joe C. Hecht
http://home1.gte.net/joehecht/index.htm
nightsky
that Plant is petulant (is that the word?) and Page hasn't the backbone to stand
up to him. I think Page at best would have wanted Jones at bass/keyboard, and at
worst would have been indifferent. Nevertheless, I also want to point out that
JPJ also kind of earned his place in the corner. There's an old Ancient
Babylonian saying: "When in Rome, do as the Romans do." JPJ did as JPJ wanted
to. He had the separate travel arrangements. He had the separate lifestyle.
Now he has the separate solo career.
On the other hand, it is kind of funny that Plant was getting chummy with JPJ on
ITTOD, and now the situation is kind of reversed. Says Plant, "Put back that
organ, let's have some gee-tah!"
Greg
RETEP
Retep
nightsky
bumping of heads hadn't occurred to me. But it makes a lot of sense. Lots. I
wonder whether Plant's solo career would have included Bonham. If it would
have, that would have strained Zep to the breaking point. If he wouldn't have,
then that would have been a more challenging thing for him emotionally, john
having been such a good friend for so long, from the same neck of the woods.
Ah, idle speculation.
Greg
michael gilson
Welcome to the group, moby4dick! Good writing!
MinM
"John Paul Jones was the orchestra."
Me
Joe C. Hecht wrote in message <759hlg$lq2$2...@news-1.news.gte.net>...
>Easy.
>
>1) Jonsey almost quit Led Zeppelin twice. THere was a devotion factor.
Are you sure about this one Joe? Jones was the one who has openly said he
wanted to Led Zep again. If anything, he has been lying low, waiting for
the opportunity to at it again...and they leave him behind.
>3) Money Split two major ways instead of three.
Jimmy got most of the money, didn't he? Or was is a fair four-way split of
the riches?
>5) "Page and Plant" sound good, but "Jones, Page and Plant" has
>a funny ring to it.
In one of his more recent interviews, he mentioned seeing Robert before the
NQ reunion and tour, something about sharing family album photos. And then
when he saw them some time later, after this pseudo Zep reunion started,
that Robert seemed like a different person to him. It could be that, or
maybe he saw the dog with its tail between its legs.
Me
Rich Kurowski wrote in message <759jlm$ocu$1...@remarQ.com>...
>Plant was the one who was originally approached to do the MTV special. At
the
>time he was working with a bassist, Charlie Jones (who is also Plant's
son-in-law),
>and a keyboardist/arranger, Ed Shearmur. He decided to invite Page to join
in
>for the project.
This is the point I don't understand, not having followed the career of
Robert Plant. You mention the important points that Robert didn't not want
to blow off either his bass player (going out with his daughter) or his
keyboardist. That's fine, but didn't he in fact blow off his guitarist,
more integral than the other instumentalists? I mean, Jimmy replaced
somebody as guitarists and Robert didn't hesitate we assume. So why not
replace the others with Jones? If not, couldn't Jones play rhythm guitar?
Rich Kurowski
: Hello All,
Hi.
:
: What the hell is with Page/Plant totally blowing off Jones?...
: And for Page to get
: indignant just shows to me that he knows they're being assholes about Jones...
: My theory is that Plant is an ultra control freak now, since Zeppelin split
: initially, an he probably felt that Jones, being a producer on his own, would
: be the chef insisting on changing the recipe. With Charlie Jones from his old
: band, no flak from him. And Jimmy with no backbone to stand up to Plant.
: That's my theory and I'm sticking with it.
Here's a quick summary of how the whole project came together. A lot of this
is speculative, but I believe it's generally correct.
Plant was the one who was originally approached to do the MTV special. At the
time he was working with a bassist, Charlie Jones (who is also Plant's son-in-law),
and a keyboardist/arranger, Ed Shearmur. He decided to invite Page to join in
for the project. At this point there was no intention of embarking on a world
tour, though I imagine they had probably considered releasing an album and/or
video from the MTV program they'd be doing. The fact they hadn't invited Jones
to join them thus far doesn't mean anything. Page has played with both Plant
and Jones in the past.
They had such a good time writing and playing together, and they were so well
received by the fans, that they started touring, and the rest is history.
Now for why they didn't invite Jones along when it became clear the whole
thing was becoming a "Led Zeppelin Reunion tour" of sorts. In order to do
that they would have had to drop Shearmur and/or Charlie Jones. Plant
didn't want to drop one of the guys they had just worked with on the MTV
special, and it probably would have been pretty awkward to ask Jones to join
them for a few songs only. So instead they took the easy way out and didn't
say anything to him about the whole thing.
The only real reason Plant ever plublicly gave for not having Jones along
was that doing so would have made it too much like a Zeppelin reunion. I
think early on that was probably a fair reason, but obviously as they
played more and more Zeppelin numbers on the tour, it became less so.
I certainly think they owed Jones at least an explanation about what they
were doing, but I also don't think they owed him a place on the tour.
I don't think it has anything to do with Plant being a control freak as
much as it has to do with him being a stubborn ass.
:
: As for the present condition of P/P, they do sound amazing, with Page's chops
: as good as anything I've heard from their heyday. After suffering through the
: Atlantic Records show, Live Aid, and a guest appearance with Plant at
: Knebworth, it is a thing of beauty to hear Page play as well as he does, and
: Plant to be able to sing without cracking, having figured in a key that works
: for him.
:
I agree. I couldn't have hoped for them to be as good as they have been
based on some of the earlier appearances you mentioned.
Rich Kurowski
scr...@interaccess.com
Neal Richardson
of the above. The progression from Plant being approached to do the MTV
special to where Page and Plant are today was in no way planned. It became
a runaway train. Decisions were made from the outset in 1995, when Plant
clearly didn't want to be seen as reforming Led Zeppelin. Plant has gone
from his anti-Zep mentality in his early solo career, to being quite
comfortable with it today. In 1995, he was somewhere in the middle. I
agree that Plant is a stubborn ass. For Christ's sake, play Stairway. I
have a feeling that Plant and Jones' friendship took a hit during the ITTOD
days in Sweden. Page and Bonham were missing in action and Plant and Jones
did the album together with Bonham and Page barely showing up to do their
bits. I think that there was a power vacuum created by Page's absence, and
Plant and Jones probably bumped heads. In the old days, Jimmy would make
that final decision. Jones was more the studio expert, and I think it shows
in the material. I have a feeling that Plant came out of it a little angry.
I also have a theory that Robert was itching to go solo after ITTOD, or at
least do solo work without breaking up Led Zeppelin.
--
neal.ri...@cwix.com
ICQ: 8781347
RETEP wrote in message ...
>Maybe it's because J comes before P in the alphabet
>
>Retep
>
CashMan
--
CashMan!
We tried to go to Cario, but the phones were all
off the hook!
-- Robert Plant
-- April, 24 1969
-- Filmore West
MOBY4DICK wrote in message <19981216170015...@ng99.aol.com>...
>11:00 at night. But that's the gist of what they said. And for Page to
get
>indignant just shows to me that he knows they're being assholes about
Jones.
>Forgetting the phone number? Give me a break. No time due to "momentum"?
How
>about calling him before the tour? How about getting him in at some point
in
>between? They flat out decided to leave him out. I have to say to
everyone,
>when I saw the tour this past year, when they did No Quarter, I felt a
terrible
>injustice seeing someone filling in for Jones. It was a great show,
>absolutely, with the boys in condition I didn't expect, but still, Jones
should
>have been there.
>
>So what gives?
>
>My theory is that Plant is an ultra control freak now, since Zeppelin split
>initially, an he probably felt that Jones, being a producer on his own,
would
>be the chef insisting on changing the recipe. With Charlie Jones from his
old
>band, no flak from him. And Jimmy with no backbone to stand up to Plant.
>That's my theory and I'm sticking with it.
>
>If anyone has any hard news, I'd love to hear it. BTW, anyone know about a
>second US leg of their tour? Are they coming around again?
>
>As for the present condition of P/P, they do sound amazing, with Page's
chops
>as good as anything I've heard from their heyday. After suffering through
the
>Atlantic Records show, Live Aid, and a guest appearance with Plant at
>Knebworth, it is a thing of beauty to hear Page play as well as he does,
and
>Plant to be able to sing without cracking, having figured in a key that
works
>for him.
>
Joe C. Hecht
>
> Joe C. Hecht wrote in message <759hlg$lq2$2...@news-1.news.gte.net>...
> >Easy.
> >
> >1) Jonsey almost quit Led Zeppelin twice. THere was a devotion factor.
>
> Are you sure about this one Joe? Jones was the one who has openly said he
> wanted to Led Zep again. If anything, he has been lying low, waiting for
> the opportunity to at it again...and they leave him behind.
Before the end of Zep, Jonsey almost quit Zep a couple of times.
> >3) Money Split two major ways instead of three.
>
> Jimmy got most of the money, didn't he? Or was is a fair four-way split of
> the riches?
In the end, but back in the Zep days, the money was split 5 ways
(Zep + Peter Grant).
Frank
>
> Rich Kurowski wrote in message <759jlm$ocu$1...@remarQ.com>...
>
> the
> >time he was working with a bassist, Charlie Jones (who is also Plant's
> son-in-law),
> >and a keyboardist/arranger, Ed Shearmur. He decided to invite Page to join
> in
> >for the project.
>
> Robert Plant. You mention the important points that Robert didn't not want
> to blow off either his bass player (going out with his daughter) or his
> keyboardist. That's fine, but didn't he in fact blow off his guitarist,
> more integral than the other instumentalists? I mean, Jimmy replaced
> somebody as guitarists and Robert didn't hesitate we assume. So why not
> replace the others with Jones? If not, couldn't Jones play rhythm guitar?
Yeah didn't he have a guitarist named
douglass bruce boyle or francis dunaway or something like that?
or was did he not have a lead guitar player?
MWS2468
What gives is simple. Musicians play with whomever they want to play with.
Period. The music leads them and they owe nothing to anyone. JPJ was not
"screwed over."
--
X-No-Archive: yes
Rich Kurowski
: Me wrote:
: >
: > This is the point I don't understand, not having followed the career of
: > Robert Plant. You mention the important points that Robert didn't not want
: > to blow off either his bass player (going out with his daughter) or his
Married to his daughter!
: > keyboardist. That's fine, but didn't he in fact blow off his guitarist,
: > more integral than the other instumentalists? I mean, Jimmy replaced
: > somebody as guitarists and Robert didn't hesitate we assume. So why not
: > replace the others with Jones? If not, couldn't Jones play rhythm guitar?
:
: Yeah didn't he have a guitarist named
: douglass bruce boyle or francis dunaway or something like that?
: or was did he not have a lead guitar player?
I don't know what the guitarist situation was before he invited Page. But
for the special and the first leg of the tour Page wasn't alone as guitarist
-- they also had Porl Thompson.
As for why Jones couldn't be rhythm guitar, don't you think he would take it
as a slap in the face to be asked to join in what would essentially be a bit
part, while two others took his place on keyboards and bass? Not that he
doesn't feel slighted as it is, of course.
Rich Kurowski
scr...@interaccess.com
MJohns7861
>Plant and Jones probably bumped heads.
This is possible though I have my doubts. JPJ's recent and very candid
interview with Dave Lewis in the last isssue of Tight But Loose seems to imply
the ITTOD sessions were a positive time for the Jonesy/Plant relationship. With
the exception of the Bonzo and Page non-contributions to the project JPJ seemed
to reflect with some fondness working closely with Robert on this album.
Magnus
Steve Jamieson
well to let my point known here it is ...
I totally think the whole Page/Plant tour thing is crap anyway .. i know I
know it's Page ..and he is great ..he still is playing great tunes.. but
c'mon ever since Bonham died ..like they said when they initially heard of
this news ..that the Band Led Zeppelin died aswell ..so they didn't want to
continue. Ok so where am i going here ...
Alright so Bonham is dead and JP Jones is alive so is Page and Plant ..Who
says they need to play together ...
Who says that Led Zeppelin should form again ..and how could they because of
the best drummer of all time isn't there.. I know it as a True Led Zeppelin
fan that if they tried this which they did in the mid 80's where Jones
really was't the Keyboard Rock Base player he used to be. From the FAQ's I
have read and other articles ..is that Jones wants to Produce and to Do work
more in the Pop Hip Hip scene..ok Fine.
But Saying that they left him behind when they started this is kind of
riduculas because it happened before .. I believe if Jimmy Page and Robert
Plant want to keep the Led Zeppelin Tradition or the thing that they built
..The True meaning of ROCK ..they they should stop this already ..
it's terriable page playing with Puff Daddy .. I can't stand hearing my
favorite band ..well band members deminishing themselfs even if it is for
the eyes of brodening his Horizon ...
anyways for the answer in my opinion is that Page plant and the rest of Zep
should put it to rest ..and saver the Long lasting taste of the Zeppelin
that we all have
Steve
FILC SYAM
started their new group on a "well lets try something and see what happens
attitude". Probably with the intention of writing some new tunes and stuff and
it blossomed into what it is now. They probably soon realized people would be
very dissappointed if they went to shows and no Zepp tunes were played. Now
their show is mostly Zepp stuff, and by all accounts they are lovin it. The
fans love it. But it goes without saying we would love it more if Jones was
there. That would just be too fuckin exciting. I imagine it's going to happen
at some point. The public would eat it up and $$$ would be sick. Allthough the
Page/Plant tour was a big sellout, the three of them would just rule over
anything else going on in the rock world.
Dan Barron
They got together in secret because they didn't want any press
until they saw if they could work together. (Now of course they
could've got Jones in even at these initial meetings, but...)
Some reporter found out and went to ask Jones, 'hey, what do you
think of PP getting together to tour?' Jones was miffed that he
had to find out from a reporter, and so the rift was irreparable.
All that said, it really doesn't matter because Jones has said he
wouldn't have joined them anyway and I believe him. For all of
PP's talk of not living in the past, Jones really has done it. I
believe he had no interest in a nostaglia tour which is
basically what it's been up to now.
BTW: can't wait for his new album...
Neal Richardson
satisfied, and he probably thought Robert did too. I have a suspicion that
the sudden studio partnership of Plant and Jones ended up more in favor of
Jones, due to his superior studio knowledge and his wide-ranging musical
ability ... unlike Plant who was just the voice and the chief lyricist.
Just because Jones thought they both had a swell old time, doesn't mean
Plant did as well.
--
neal.ri...@cwix.com
ICQ: 8781347
MJohns7861 wrote in message
<19981217102905...@ng-cg1.aol.com>...
michael gilson
> Yeah didn't he have a guitarist named
> douglass bruce boyle or francis dunaway or something like that?
> or was did he not have a lead guitar player?
Doug Boyle was the lead guitarist in Plant's band from 1987's Now & Zen
through 1991, with Phil Johnstone playing rhythm guitar and keyboards.
Beginning in 1993 (Fate of Nations album and British dates), Francis
Dunnery and Kevin Scott MacMichael were the two guitarists in a new
line-up; Johnstone and Charlie Jones were the only members still with him.
MacMichael was replaced by Innes Sibun by the time the Fate of Nations
tour hit North America. Plant also played guitar himself (a Flying V, if I
remember right) on one song on the Manic Nirvana tour. The results were
not impressive to my ears, and his playing hadn't improved much by the
time he dueted with Tori Amos for Down by the Seaside on the Encomium
album.
Extra trivia for you courtesy of
MJohns7861
>Plant did as well.
Good point. Hadn't thought of that way. Another interesting thing in that same
JPJ interview was the way Jonesy all but had to force his way into the plans
for the 1985 Live Aid reunion. The point being the attempted exclusion of Jones
from post-Zep projects goes back much further than just the 1994/95 Unledded
project and tour. In many ways he has been the outsider looking in even when
Zep was together.
Magnus
mask
it which I had no answer.
Me wrote in message <759ssk$gc1$1...@canopus.cc.umanitoba.ca>...
<snip>
>Jimmy got most of the money, didn't he? Or was is a fair four-way split of
>the riches?
I heard that Jimmy is well know for his great carefulness with his money,
and heard a few story (like he asked a doggie-bag when he went to a party,
which in itself may show how much he appreciated the food).
Is this true? Is he a bit, er what's the opposite word for generous...
Hideki - no offence but just curious
P.S. Sheri, you said you knew the Japanese comic with characters based on
Zep members (Mr. James, etc.). Do Robert and Jimmy know it as well? If so,
what do they (especially Jimmy) think of it?
--
- No Spam: remove ".Abyss" from the address to reply. -
Neal Richardson
food or he was going off somewhere and wanted a snack for later.
I haven't heard anything about the Page in the 1990s when it comes to his
love of money. Back in the Led Zeppelin days, he had quite a reputation as
being very careful with his cash. He was known as "Led Wallet". There are
loose stories about how he never offered to buy drinks. Peter Grant tells
an amusing story how Jimmy telephoned him in 1967/8 to tell him about this
guy called John Bonham who he wanted in the band. Grant thought it must be
very serious, as Jimmy called him, thereby paying for the call (a local call
in England). I'm sure he blew a significant amount of cash in his worst
drug days, and I'm sure the divorce cost him a fair amount. A recent
article in one of Britain's leading newspapers had Page and Plant both
listed as having net worths of 50 million pounds each (that's about 80
million US Dollars). I'm sure Jimmy is still ultra careful with the cash. I
think cash was very high on the priority list when formed Led Zeppelin.
--
neal.ri...@cwix.com
ICQ: 8781347
mask wrote in message <75d4k2$d5k$4...@plutonium.btinternet.com>...
mask
>I wouldn't read too much into the doggie bag thing. Maybe he just liked
the
>food or he was going off somewhere and wanted a snack for later.
Thanks, Neal. (It's good to have you back BTW. :-))
Yeah, I know, it's quite funny though especially when you hear how
tight-fisted the guy is.
>I haven't heard anything about the Page in the 1990s when it comes to his
>love of money.
That's what I thought. Hence the question.
>Back in the Led Zeppelin days, he had quite a reputation as
>being very careful with his cash. He was known as "Led Wallet". There are
>loose stories about how he never offered to buy drinks. Peter Grant tells
>an amusing story how Jimmy telephoned him in 1967/8 to tell him about this
>guy called John Bonham who he wanted in the band. Grant thought it must be
>very serious, as Jimmy called him, thereby paying for the call (a local
call
>in England).
So, it *is* true, to a certain extent. Having said that how much can you
believe what Peter Grant says. :-P
>I'm sure he blew a significant amount of cash in his worst
>drug days, and I'm sure the divorce cost him a fair amount. A recent
>article in one of Britain's leading newspapers had Page and Plant both
>listed as having net worths of 50 million pounds each (that's about 80
>million US Dollars). I'm sure Jimmy is still ultra careful with the cash. I
>think cash was very high on the priority list when formed Led Zeppelin.
This may shows how careful Jimmy was as he still has the same amount of
assets as Robert has after his costly hobby and the divorce. :-Q
Hideki - just curious
Tony Russell
Neal Richardson wrote in message ...
>
>I haven't heard anything about the Page in the 1990s when it comes to his
>love of money. Back in the Led Zeppelin days, he had quite a reputation as
>being very careful with his cash. He was known as "Led Wallet". There are
>loose stories about how he never offered to buy drinks. Peter Grant tells
>an amusing story how Jimmy telephoned him in 1967/8 to tell him about this
>guy called John Bonham who he wanted in the band. Grant thought it must be
>very serious, as Jimmy called him, thereby paying for the call (a local
call
>in England). I'm sure he blew a significant amount of cash in his worst
>drug days, and I'm sure the divorce cost him a fair amount. A recent
>article in one of Britain's leading newspapers had Page and Plant both
>listed as having net worths of 50 million pounds each (that's about 80
>million US Dollars). I'm sure Jimmy is still ultra careful with the cash.
I
>think cash was very high on the priority list when formed Led Zeppelin.
>
Hello Neal,
Isn't there something in Hammer of the Gods about JP asking the others for a
contribution for the food after their first meeting? It must have been a bit
strange to be a Mr Unknown drummer being called in by Mr
Yardbird-and-Supersessions-Doing-Quite-Nicely-Thank-You Page and having to
buy your own beer.
TonyR
Neal Richardson
Jimmy's boat house in Pangbourne. This was the first time they met after
Jimmy had traveled up to watch Robert in action in the Midlands. Robert had
just enough cash to get to Jimmy's on the train and when it was time to go
home, Robert made it known that he was flat broke and therefore, would have
to hitch a ride home. Even though the two of them got along so well that
weekend, Jimmy was quite comfortable in wishing Robert a pleasant trip home,
knowing he was totally skint.
--
neal.ri...@cwix.com
ICQ: 8781347
Tony Russell wrote in message <75dmfl$32h$1...@plug.news.pipex.net>...
Sean Haggerty
slant to this whole
thing . In Peter Grants' contract with the band if any more than two surviving
members of LED ZEP get together on a project , They must split ALL monies to all
Estates of ORIGINAL people involved including Bonzo's estate!! That man was
smart , I mean what fore thought.......................
Anyway that's industry scuttle butt , and a VERY plausible excuse although
IMHO
an inescusable one.
Sean
Jim Curtis wrote:
> I wish Jimmy would realize that JPJ is the perfect compliment to his guitar
> but I doubt Jimmy even hears the bass...which is ok, but when you have two
> self absorbed perfomers like Plant and Page it is a great thing to have a
> disciplined bassist who can make order out of extreme chaos....that is
> JPJ....pulling the whole thing together. There is no genius of Led Zeppelin
> without JPJ as anyone who has heard solo albums from these guys can atest
> &adding Jones to the lineup wouldn't make the band 1/4 better...much more
> than that. I'm not saying that JPJ has more talent than anyone else in LZ
> but the "chemistry" is the thing.
Jim Curtis
Me
the album at premium price, but really I thought a guitarless album was kind
of dumb. And he plans to do another like this? I don't get it.
Through all these years, he's been anything but prolific. Sorry to the
oldtimers here, but the guy's over fifty. Why didn't he get with the solo
work sooner? Or more to the point, since he's been faithful to LZ, waiting
to work with them again, why shut him out? Kind of stupid, Robert Plant.
Exhibit A: WIC. Exhibit B: the solo careers of Plant and Page. What is
lacking? Bonham and Jones. Can't do anything about Bonham, but they could
have had the decency to start up something new with Jones. Instead we
(fortunately) get to see rehashed LZ. But nothing more.
MWS2468
>
>MinM
Wow, you know your Plant trivia! So, what was the source of the excellent live
Plant show I heard on the radio about 5 - 6 years ago. It was state-of-the-art
rock'n'roll.
Thx
--
X-No-Archive: yes
Lee McCauslin
Sean Haggerty wrote in message <367B2B96...@ix.netcom.com>...
>Hi this is my first post to the NG and I've got a little inside the
industry
>slant to this whole
>thing . In Peter Grants' contract with the band if any more than two
surviving
>members of LED ZEP get together on a project , They must split ALL monies
to all
>Estates of ORIGINAL people involved including Bonzo's estate!! That man
was
>smart , I mean what fore thought.......................
>
> Anyway that's industry scuttle butt , and a VERY plausible excuse
although
>IMHO
>an inescusable one.
>
> Sean
Man, I'd really hate to think that they would refuse to get all 3 together
because they didn't want Bonzo's estate to catch some green.
Seems very un-Zeppelinly to me.
Since that thought is so repugnant to me, I'll continue to buy the 'moved
on', 'artistic differences', 'been there, don't wanna do that again'
theories.
:o)
Lee
(BTW, Welcome to the group, Sean!)
Sean Haggerty
bite into something. And about the money It would mean a five way split on
top of paying current living managers........YIKES . But how much bread do
these to need??
Sean
LRossi3940
I'm so proud of the surviving members for not cashing in on the Zeppelin name.
To me, they are still head and shoulders above any of the big name bands of the
70's or anyone else for that matter. I have seen Pink Floyd without Roger
Waters, the Who without Keith Moon and Townshend not playing any electric
guitar, Deep Purple without Blackmore etc. and was always left feeling
disappointed.
Page/Plant was the best of them all. It was great to hear the LZ tunes, but
you didn't expect to hear "Stairway". And that was fine because it wasn't a
fucking LZ concert. They didn't resign themselves to being a nostalgia act. The
Who on the "Quadrophenia Tour" was a joke. Pete strumming his acoustic all
night was pathetic.
I lost a lot of respect for the Who. They pissed on their legacy. Instead of
having Pete's windmilling slide across the stage during "Won't Get Fooled
Again" being their indelable mark, I have a deaf, acoustic strumming Pete.
LZ's legacy is intact and always will be. They will always be remembered for
what they were when they were together as a unit. The music the four of them
made will always stand the test of time no matter how successful or falable
they may become on their own. And like they and only the Beatles, as long as
they never reform it will never be tarnished. And for me, that's the way it
oughtta stay.
Peace
Cheloveck
My feeling on this:
I viewed No Quarter/Unledded for the 1st time last nite, and as wonderful as it
is to see P&P play together again, it is marred by the feeling of something
missing. One could see the shared energy and joy which passed between Robert
and Jimmy from creating music together again. JPJ should be included in this
joy. I think JPJ is trying to maintain his dignity but that all this is
breaking heart-- this is partly an impression based on his wistful
reminiscences on VH1 Legends , and partly based on hearing that Jason Bonham
was really miffed at not being included but more concerned for Jonesy's
feelings, and also on JPJ's very diplomatic way of saying 'I'm so glad my
friend's have found my phone no.' (Single quotes= not exact quote) at the Rock
Hall of Fame presentation. If the issue is one of ability, let's be real:
Plant has a great voice, but it is not as good as it was in the old days (this
based on my viewing of Unledded)-- I am sure Page could find a younger Plant
mimic if he really wanted to. I understand that P&P (and probably JPJ) are not
interested in being a 'nostalgia' band, and an artist's need to evolve. But
they *are* playing some of the old tunes, and it is probably wonderful for the
folks who never saw Zep live, as it is wonderful for those of us that did. The
songs are newly invented, seemingly following the Zep philosophy of not
creating carbon copies of the tunes concert after concert-- adding some
different improvisation each time (probably explaining why the boots are so
popular). The magic is a mix of the nostalgia and the new. The chemistry
comes from these monumental musicians playing together. JPJ was part of that
magic and chemistry and should be included now. They were mates, weren't
they?
Cheers,
Camille in CA=Chel...@aol.com
Last show: Clodhoppers @ The Tractor, Seattle-- Pretty Good
Last records played:
Zeppelin-- LZ1
Donovan-- Troubadour
http://www.geocities.com/Yosemite/Rapids/6953/
Tony Russell
Neal Richardson wrote in message ...
>Jimmy's boat house in Pangbourne. This was the first time they met after
>Jimmy had traveled up to watch Robert in action in the Midlands. Robert
had
>just enough cash to get to Jimmy's on the train and when it was time to go
>home, Robert made it known that he was flat broke and therefore, would have
>to hitch a ride home. Even though the two of them got along so well that
>weekend, Jimmy was quite comfortable in wishing Robert a pleasant trip
home,
>knowing he was totally skint.
>--
Wasn't there also something Robert said about some old lady on the train
down telling him off about the length of his hair? It's impressive that
Robert had the balls to keep on trying.
TonyR
MOBY4DICK
>
>Welcome to the group, moby4dick! Good writing!
>
>MinM
Thanks much for the welcome..and thanks all who responded, and are continuing
on the NG. Of late life hasn't allowed me to keep up on the "inside" scoop, or
reading the mags and latest books, so thanks again.
It appears there's a lot of good insights and speculation, but nothing has been
officially been written or commented on, so we can only take the "clues" and
past occurences and try and fill in our own blanks.
Must have hit a chord here though, because of the number of postings.
Happy Chanukkah to all, and and upcoming Merry Christmas & New Years! Feel
free to fill in any missing holidays this time of year that I don't know
about...
Moby
Neal Richardson
It's been like that for the past 3 years. Expect another round of them when
JPJ releases his new CD and goes on tour. Maybe he'll do more commenting on
his old buddies when he gets interviewed?
--
neal.ri...@cwix.com
ICQ: 8781347
MOBY4DICK wrote in message <19981221164310...@ng-ft1.aol.com>...
Jericho
house? Jimmy, being the richest person there still asked broke Bonzo and Percy
to pitch in to pay for lunch.
mask wrote:
> Neal Richardson wrote in message ...
> >I wouldn't read too much into the doggie bag thing. Maybe he just liked
> the
> >food or he was going off somewhere and wanted a snack for later.
>
> Thanks, Neal. (It's good to have you back BTW. :-))
>
> Yeah, I know, it's quite funny though especially when you hear how
> tight-fisted the guy is.
>
> >I haven't heard anything about the Page in the 1990s when it comes to his
> >love of money.
>
> That's what I thought. Hence the question.
>
DJ
contract written only for *remaining* band members?
DJ
Neal Richardson wrote in message ...
>Jimmy can't release any live material. Well, he could, but there are
>serious complications. He has actually talked about this problem and he
has
>said that he has been keen to do it. The problem is, that Robert has a
>controlling interest in releasing any further Led Zeppelin material.
>Basically, the existing Led Zeppelin contract states that all band members
>must approve such a release. If one says 'no", that's it. Apparently,
>Robert is not too happy about a lot of the live performances (his vocals
>were often the weakest part of the live show). Jimmy said something along
>the lines of, "I don't want to spend a lot of time and money preparing a
>live album set, only to have Robert say no at the last minute".
>
>--
>neal.ri...@cwix.com
>ICQ: 8781347
>>I agree with Jenna and disagree with Ascesis8. Jimmy originated the band
>and
>>even almost had Plant dumped after the very first album. Jimmy remastered
>the
>>studio material and obviously punched up electric guitar and tamed (maybe
>at
>>least a Db or three) vocals. Jimmy needs to release some live material
>from
>>his vaults.
>>
>>VaaThor
>
>
Joe C. Hecht
> I agree with Jenna and disagree with Ascesis8.
Jenna *is* Ascesis8!
Joe
--
Joe C. Hecht
http://home1.gte.net/joehecht/index.htm
VaaThor
>Date: Wed, Dec 16, 1998 18:30 EST
>>>>My theory is that Plant is an ultra control freak now... And Jimmy with no
>backbone to stand up to Plant. <<<
>Robert a control freak and Jimmy with no back bone?? Was I wrong to think all
>this time that those two are completely *opposite* from how they were just
>described??
>Someone help me out here!
>Jenna
Neal Richardson
serious complications. He has actually talked about this problem and he has
said that he has been keen to do it. The problem is, that Robert has a
controlling interest in releasing any further Led Zeppelin material.
Basically, the existing Led Zeppelin contract states that all band members
must approve such a release. If one says 'no", that's it. Apparently,
Robert is not too happy about a lot of the live performances (his vocals
were often the weakest part of the live show). Jimmy said something along
the lines of, "I don't want to spend a lot of time and money preparing a
live album set, only to have Robert say no at the last minute".
--
neal.ri...@cwix.com
ICQ: 8781347
MJohns7861
>controlling interest in releasing any further Led Zeppelin material.
My understanding was prior to the start of his solo career in the early '80's,
Robert sold his rights back to Atlantic for a lump dollar sum for any royalties
past or future on the Zep catalogue. As a result I would be surprised if he had
any real control over what was released live album-wise from a contractual
sense though I am sure as a courtesy Jimmy wouldn't release any live material
without Robert's approval.
Magnus
VaaThor
>VaaThor wrote:
>> I agree with Jenna and disagree with Ascesis8.
>Jenna *is* Ascesis8!
>Joe
>Joe C. Hecht
I see by re-reading the original posts I have made an error. My statement
should have read that I "agree with Jenna and disagree with Moby4Dick". I
apologize if this has caused some confusion about this thread.
VaaThor
Neal Richardson
only apply to surviving members.
--
neal.richardson+AEA-cwix.com
ICQ: 8781347
DJ wrote in message +ADw-75pkt9+ACQ-e3e+AEA-enews2.newsguy.com+AD4-...
+AD4-Neal, can you say who +ACI-votes+ACI- for John Bonham? Is it his estate, or is the
+AD4-contract written only for +ACo-remaining+ACo- band members?
+AD4-DJ
+AD4-
+AD4-Neal Richardson wrote in message ...
+AD4APg-Jimmy can't release any live material. Well, he could, but there are
+AD4APg-serious complications. He has actually talked about this problem and he
+AD4-has
+AD4APg-said that he has been keen to do it. The problem is, that Robert has a
+AD4APg-controlling interest in releasing any further Led Zeppelin material.
+AD4APg-Basically, the existing Led Zeppelin contract states that all band members
+AD4APg-must approve such a release. If one says 'no+ACI-, that's it. Apparently,
+AD4APg-Robert is not too happy about a lot of the live performances (his vocals
+AD4APg-were often the weakest part of the live show). Jimmy said something along
+AD4APg-the lines of, +ACI-I don't want to spend a lot of time and money preparing a
+AD4APg-live album set, only to have Robert say no at the last minute+ACI-.
+AD4APg-
+AD4APg---
+AD4APg-neal.richardson+AEA-cwix.com
+AD4APg-ICQ: 8781347
+AD4APgA+-I agree with Jenna and disagree with Ascesis8. Jimmy originated the band
+AD4APg-and
+AD4APgA+-even almost had Plant dumped after the very first album. Jimmy
remastered
+AD4APg-the
+AD4APgA+-studio material and obviously punched up electric guitar and tamed (maybe
+AD4APg-at
+AD4APgA+-least a Db or three) vocals. Jimmy needs to release some live material
+AD4APg-from
+AD4APgA+-his vaults.
+AD4APgA+-
+AD4APgA+-VaaThor
+AD4APg-
+AD4APg-
+AD4-
Neal Richardson
walked away with a big check. However, he still maintains a separate
controlling interest in the release of any future Led Zeppelin material. I
can't for the life of me imagine how this was allowed to happen and he now
has absolutely no financial incentive for allowing any future releases. He
must have got this past Jimmy when Jimmy was in his worst days of heroin
addiction.
--
neal.ri...@cwix.com
ICQ: 8781347
MJohns7861 wrote in message
<19981222230516...@ng-fv1.aol.com>...
>>The problem is, that Robert has a
>>controlling interest in releasing any further Led Zeppelin material.
>
DJ
MJohns7861 wrote in message
<19981222230516...@ng-fv1.aol.com>...
>>The problem is, that Robert has a
>>controlling interest in releasing any further Led Zeppelin material.
>
>My understanding was prior to the start of his solo career in the early
'80's,
>Robert sold his rights back to Atlantic for a lump dollar sum for any
royalties
>past or future on the Zep catalogue.
Remember reading that too.
>As a result I would be surprised if he had
>any real control over what was released live album-wise from a contractual
>sense though I am sure as a courtesy Jimmy wouldn't release any live
material
>without Robert's approval.
Ha Ha Ha, Ho Ho Ho
Get real!
Jimmy just doesn't have time, or better put, doesn't want to waste the time
if the result is "NO!"
>
>Magnus
>
Bulk...@webtv.net
worst zep performance is better than PP. What about the Rock N Roll
Hall Of Fame. Tyler took over. The Live Aid and Atlantic reunion were
bad also. Fate of Nations was a joke. The 2 radio PP broadcast Ive
heard, Plants voice disturbed me. His poor vocals isnt stopping him
now, why not let Page release live material. This is my opinion.
MJohns7861
>walked away with a big check.
I remember this first came to light during the release of the Box Set in late
1990 and Plant grumbled in some interviews he had nothing to gain by release of
the set. It came out he had received a large sum, at the time, from Atlantic
prior to the release of Pictures at Eleven in 1982. The reasoning for Robert's
decision was he did not think the legacy of Led Zeppelin would last this long
and that the sales of the back catologue would be still be strong 5-10-20 years
later as it has. As you said in the early '80's Jimmy was way too out of it to
provide advice one way or the other to Robert. One has to remember the
horrendous music scene in the early '80's - Robert had some reason to think by
a 1990 or a 2000 Zeppelin could be a relatively forgotten band and with the
opportunity of a big check from Atlantic he took it. Needless to say this was a
horrible move on Robert's part and a business decision that has cost Plant
millions in potential royalites as with classic rock radio, Live Aid and
Atlantic's 40th the power of Zeppelin has indeed lived on and new generations
of teenagers bought all the albums from the 1980's to now. Prior to the success
of Now & Zen and that sold-out tour in 1988 that allowed him to refill his
cofers Plant was in near-financial crisis as a result of his bungle and a solo
career that had gone south. Thus we saw the new Robert in 1988 - the Coke
commericial - Zep songs played live for the first time - all this either
directly or indirectly the result of his decision to sign away his Zep
royalties.
Magnus
Bulk...@webtv.net
gone. I know fans maybe be blinded, I dont blame them. Give him an A
for effort though. Many think Plants voice sounds bad, others think hes
at his best.
Play Gallows Pole on Unledded , then Zep 3.
It doesnt sound like the same person. I not saying whos right or wrong,
just my opinion.
Jagger, Tyler and Ozzy sound ok. Plants voice has not held up. Ever
since Presence his voice has degraded with each album. Dont think like
obsessed fans. Your ears dont lie.
Foreman should retire along with """UH"'??
Rich Kurowski
: Plant wasnt happy with the performances because of his voice. Even his
: worst zep performance is better than PP.
This is absolutely untrue. At some points in the recent P&P tours his
voice rivals his voice from the early 70's. There were some shows in
the late 70's that his voice was almost unbearably bad. Of course this
wasn't true of all their shows from that period. But on average his
voice from the second leg of the first P&P tour on has been better than
the average show from the late 70's.
Rich Kurowski
scr...@interaccess.com
Neal Richardson
wish to cast off the ball and chain of Led Zeppelin. He was really anti Zep
at this time, and I think he wanted a complete fresh start with his solo
career. I very much doubt that Robert was ever in a financial crisis after
the deal, as I'm sure he did pretty damn well. I doubt whether his current
net worth of 50 million U.K. pounds is a result of his solo work or even the
Page and Plant work. I do agree that from a business perspective, he should
have left things the way they were.
neal.ri...@cwix.com
ICQ: 8781347
MJohns7861 wrote in message
<19981223100701...@ng-cf1.aol.com>...
MJohns7861
After the debacle of Shaken n' Stirred, and I have heard this from a very
reliable source, Robert was cash poor. While he owned numerous properties,
material items and a valuable estate accumulated through his years with
Zeppelin his cash flow by the mid '80's was very slow. Having net worth tied up
in property etc. and having immediate cash flow are two very different things.
While "crisis" may not be the right word I have little doubt his financial
status caused him to really look at his commercial validity as a musical artist
and greatly influenced the new Robert Plant we saw in 1988.
Magnus
Phil Kemper
needed a mike in 68 -69 days. But that was before Page
could turn it up to 11.
Really, He did have throat surgery in 74 or so, hasn't been
the same since.
But He amazed me at Portland P & P show, talk about endurance,
I got wore out just watching. Both were freakin amazing....
I'd imagine there will be something released, but hard to see it
will even go in top 100 nowadays.
DJ
to his dad that he had made the right decision. As we know per Sheri, he
has a laptop, I suspect for checking his business dealings, and that he was
reading some Brit Financial Newspaper on his trip to Imbeza (sp.?) recently.
He never seemed to throw his money away as Page had, such as Boleskine
house, zodiac bookstore, Crowleyan junque, heroine, booze, etc.
JMHO,
DJ
MJohns7861 wrote in message
<19981223233803...@ng-cf1.aol.com>...
Neal Richardson
unlike Page and Bonham. I'm sure the divorce from Maureen cost him
substantially, although divorces in the U.K. are a great deal easier that
they are in the States. I'm sure Maureen was well taken care of, but not to
the extent that she would have been had they lived somewhere like
California. Of course, it's always hard to tell. Plant may appear to be
shrewd with his cash, but he may have done badly with investments in the
past
--
neal.richardson+AEA-cwix.com
ICQ: 8781347
DJ wrote in message +ADw-75tguf+ACQ-sgj+AEA-enews2.newsguy.com+AD4-...
+AD4-I suspect Mr. Plant is a very shrewd businessman, as he worked hard to
prove
+AD4-to his dad that he had made the right decision. As we know per Sheri, he
+AD4-has a laptop, I suspect for checking his business dealings, and that he was
+AD4-reading some Brit Financial Newspaper on his trip to Imbeza (sp.?)
recently.
+AD4-He never seemed to throw his money away as Page had, such as Boleskine
+AD4-house, zodiac bookstore, Crowleyan junque, heroine, booze, etc.
+AD4-JMHO,
+AD4-DJ
+AD4-
+AD4-MJohns7861 wrote in message
+AD4APA-19981223233803.01058.00000823+AEA-ng-cf1.aol.com+AD4-...
+AD4APg-
+AD4APg-After the debacle of Shaken n' Stirred, and I have heard this from a very
+AD4APg-reliable source, Robert was cash poor. While he owned numerous properties,
+AD4APg-material items and a valuable estate accumulated through his years with
+AD4APg-Zeppelin his cash flow by the mid '80's was very slow. Having net worth
+AD4-tied up
+AD4APg-in property etc. and having immediate cash flow are two very different
+AD4-things.
+AD4APg-While +ACI-crisis+ACI- may not be the right word I have little doubt his financial
+AD4APg-status caused him to really look at his commercial validity as a musical
+AD4-artist
+AD4APg-and greatly influenced the new Robert Plant we saw in 1988.
+AD4APg-
+AD4APg-Magnus
+AD4APg-
+AD4APgA+-I very much doubt that Robert was ever in a financial crisis after
+AD4APgA+-the deal, as I'm sure he did pretty damn well.
+AD4APg-
+AD4APg-
+AD4-
Joe C. Hecht
> He never seemed to throw his money away as Page had, such as Boleskine
> DJ
The above list could be bought with the lint from his change pocket.
Seriously, if you had what is estimated to be between 100 and 150
million dollars in investments, and more comming in each day, I dont
think a little booksstore and a couple of houses is going to make a dent
in your earnings.
I also think it would be very difficult to drink $150 million in booze,
or shoot $150 million in heroin (it would be even more difficult to
smoke it).