What is your favorite KMFDM song?
Anastazia
I would like to see what other peoples favorite KMFDM song is!
and CD. I'm curious :)
My favorite song is "Leibesleid"
My favorite cd is XTORT
Courtnee
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wi...@sd.cybernex.net Anastazia @ IRC__/
Paul Schweigert
new one when I'm all bored and stuff.
Max
I really, really, like Light.
It's either Light or Inane.
Max
Jason Prime
Paul Schweigert wrote:
>
> Anastazia wrote:
> >
> > I would like to see what other peoples favorite KMFDM song is!
> > and CD. I'm curious :)
> > My favorite song is "Leibesleid"
> > My favorite cd is XTORT
> >
every 3 or 4 weeks. Right now, "Inane" is the song I listen to most, but
NIHIL is getting the most overall play in my CD player. Of all songs ,
though, "Don't Blow Your Top" will always be near the top of the list. I
love that song.
Jason
I think I'll go and start my car to have a real adventure...
Jeremy Harris
> > I would like to see what other peoples favorite KMFDM song is!
> > and CD. I'm curious :)
> > My favorite song is "Leibesleid"
> > My favorite cd is XTORT
Sex on the Flag (jezebeelzebuttfunk, I guess) kicks ass.... though my
favorite cd is a threeway between nihil, xtort, and thingies (symbols,
anger, chaos, whatever ya wanna call it.)
anyone for favorite remixes? Mine would have to be raymond's remix of
rules... most phenomenol remix I've ever heard.
jeremy
pa...@izzy.net
In article <35805568...@sd.cybernex.net>,
Anastazia <wi...@sd.cybernex.net> wrote:
>
> I would like to see what other peoples favorite KMFDM song is!
> and CD. I'm curious :)
> My favorite song is "Leibesleid"
> My favorite cd is XTORT
The short answers:
My favorite song is "Killing".
My favorite album is UAIOE.
My favorite cd is the split single.
jarf.
-pablo
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Andy
On Thu, 11 Jun 1998 22:08:40 GMT, Anastazia <wi...@sd.cybernex.net>
wrote:
>I would like to see what other peoples favorite KMFDM song is!
>and CD. I'm curious :)
>My favorite song is "Leibesleid"
>My favorite cd is XTORT
>
>Courtnee
Wow, I didn't think anyone here would say Xtort was their favorite. :)
My absolute fave is "Trust," the remix version on the "Glory" single.
What a ball buster. Lyrix that epitomize KMFDM and awesome music.
"Ultra" is my favorite crank-it-up-and-piss-off-the-neighbors song.
Anastazia
yeah I know what you mean. I have been addicted to Nihil because that
is the cd that got me into KMFDM. I have since got 16 of their cds in
less then a few months :) I will always be addicted to "Brute" i love
that song.
Jason Prime wrote:
>
> Paul Schweigert wrote:
> >
> > Anastazia wrote:
> > >
> > > I would like to see what other peoples favorite KMFDM song is!
> > > and CD. I'm curious :)
> > > My favorite song is "Leibesleid"
> > > My favorite cd is XTORT
> > >
>
> I dunno, I might be wierd, but my fave CD and song changes about once
> every 3 or 4 weeks. Right now, "Inane" is the song I listen to most, but
> NIHIL is getting the most overall play in my CD player. Of all songs ,
> though, "Don't Blow Your Top" will always be near the top of the list. I
> love that song.
>
> Jason
> I think I'll go and start my car to have a real adventure...
--
ram...@lse.fullfeed.com
In article <35805568...@sd.cybernex.net>,
Anastazia <wi...@sd.cybernex.net> wrote:
>
> I would like to see what other peoples favorite KMFDM song is!
> and CD. I'm curious :)
> My favorite song is "Leibesleid"
> My favorite cd is XTORT
>
my 2 favorite songs are More 'n' Faster from the SUCKS single and
Megalomaniac.
my favorite cd is ANGST.
little_raven
^O^^O^^O^^O^^O^^O^^O^^O^^O^^O^^O^^O^^O^^O^^O^^O^^O^^O^^O^^O^^O^
"...i keep the wisdom that you need, the password that you want..."--covenant
ramoth at lse.fullfeed.com ICQ#11249359
http://members.tripod.com/~Crow1/index.html
FailSafe
Anastazia wrote:
> I would like to see what other peoples favorite KMFDM song is!
> and CD. I'm curious :)
> My favorite song is "Leibesleid"
> My favorite cd is XTORT
Favourite song: "The Unrestrained Use Of Excessive Force"
Favourite CD: "What Do You Know, Deutschland?"
Favourite EP (that I own): "LIGHT"
--
FailSafe
fail...@golden.net
-----
Do NOT let them deceive you with the legitimization of their myth.
Anastazia
On mixes im stuck. I love Vogue cd! I listen to it all the time. Other
wise my favs are "Blood Evil Mix" on Angst and "Glory war & Slavery Mix"
on Glory cd and then on the Brute cd I like "Brute Kun$t mix"
It's not a remix but on Brute cd I love "Revolution II"
Jeremy Harris wrote:
>
> > > I would like to see what other peoples favorite KMFDM song is!
> > > and CD. I'm curious :)
> > > My favorite song is "Leibesleid"
> > > My favorite cd is XTORT
>
> Sex on the Flag (jezebeelzebuttfunk, I guess) kicks ass.... though my
> favorite cd is a threeway between nihil, xtort, and thingies (symbols,
> anger, chaos, whatever ya wanna call it.)
>
> anyone for favorite remixes? Mine would have to be raymond's remix of
> rules... most phenomenol remix I've ever heard.
>
> jeremy
--
-=KodiaK=-
Hi... my name is -=KodiaK=- and im a KMFDMaholic...
my favortie song is Vogue...
and my favorite Album is Money
and as of this moment, my favorite cd is Wrecked, by PIG
now that im all excited, i have to go and take my anti hyper pills....
-=KodiaK=-
Xtort000
Song: Gotta be ULTRA, what better song to rage to
Album: Thats rough, I think it will have to go to Naive or Nihil
Luca
Hard to pick a favorite but:
Amost every song on NIHIL for music quality-especially Terror and Trust.
Plus I have to say Sex on the Flag off the Vogue single- one of the first
songs I heard from KMFDM-it's just a killer tune.
Luca
-I GET CLOSER BEAT BY BEAT-
sINDUSTRIAL
On Fri, 12 Jun 1998 05:17:33 GMT, Anastazia <wi...@sd.cybernex.net>
wrote:
>On mixes im stuck. I love Vogue cd! I listen to it all the time. Other
>wise my favs are "Blood Evil Mix" on Angst and "Glory war & Slavery Mix"
>on Glory cd and then on the Brute cd I like "Brute Kun$t mix"
Anyone know if that mix has anything to do with Laibach Kunst? Why
would they use Kun$t otherwise??
NovaLyte
Well, let's see:
Favorite song: Liebeslied, off the original Naive (Gotta love the ultra-heavy
percussion intro.)
Favorite Album: Nihil, without a doubt.
Favorite single/EP: Glory, Glory, Glory.
Favorite cheese: Cheddar
-NovaLyte-
-----------------------------------------
"I have head-explody!" --Nny
-----------------------------------------
foobar
Kunst means "art" in german. (woo, that one semester of G100 is paying off. ;) )
-foobar
Trey Bennett
> I would like to see what other peoples favorite KMFDM song is!
> and CD. I'm curious :)
> My favorite song is "Leibesleid"
> My favorite cd is XTORT
>
> Courtnee
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> -=====/_/_//_/\_,_/ /_/\_\ /______\ \ \
> A proud member of TeamLinux \_________\/
> wi...@sd.cybernex.net Anastazia @ IRC__/
My Favorite song is Anarchy then Light.
My favorite album is ANGST!
Trey Bennett
tr...@eatel.net
Dave
Anastazia wrote:
> I would like to see what other peoples favorite KMFDM song is!
> and CD. I'm curious :)
> My favorite song is "Leibesleid"
> My favorite cd is XTORT
Favorite albums: Naive and Money
Favorite singles: KMFDM/TKK: Naive/Days of Swine and Roses, Godlike, and
Virus
Favorite song: Godlike (Chicago Trax version)
MIC SPECTRE
1.search and destroy
2.go to hell
3.thumb thumb
4.wrath
5.me i funk
my favorate album is probably Nihil. my favorate single is rules.
MIC
Robert
Anastazia wrote:
>
> I would like to see what other peoples favorite KMFDM song is!
> and CD. I'm curious :)
> My favorite song is "Leibesleid"
> My favorite cd is XTORT
>
My favorite song is Sex On The Flag.
My favorite remix is Help Us Save Us Take Us Away Oktoberfest Mix.
My favorite album is Naive.
My favorite single is Split.
---Robert---
Lance
Anastazia wrote:
>
> I would like to see what other peoples favorite KMFDM song is!
> and CD. I'm curious :)
> My favorite song is "Leibesleid"
> My favorite cd is XTORT
>
> Courtnee
My favorite song surely is the live version of "DIS-O-BEDIENCE" that is
played on the Beat By Beat Video.
My favorite album is Nihil, though Xtort certainly give it a run for its
money.
I don't own any other albums but those, the new one, Naive/Hell To Go,
and Retro.
What Do You Know and Don't Blow Your Top are my second and third
favorite songs, I do believe.
-DWLance
purple dreams
In article <3581A502...@geocities.com>, Lance wrote:
>My favorite song surely is the live version of "DIS-O-BEDIENCE" that is
>played on the Beat By Beat Video.
>My favorite album is Nihil, though Xtort certainly give it a run for its
>money.
>I don't own any other albums but those, the new one, Naive/Hell To Go,
>and Retro.
>What Do You Know and Don't Blow Your Top are my second and third
>favorite songs, I do believe.
<sniff>
i miss the old days, before the last album, when nobody could
even THINK of menbtioning xtort here without starting a flamewar
about how bad it was.
<sniff>
</sarcasm>
:)
PS : I liked xtort, but my fave would have to be retro. so there :)
--
purple dreams : http://purple.acadiau.ca
Hoare's Law of Large Problems : Inside every large problem is a small
: problem struggling to get out.
Oscillated
song- VIRUS
Album-RAMMSTEIN (Herzeleid)
Single-Glory
MMMMMmmmmmmmmm......
RAMMSTEIN. KMFDM keeps introducing me to cooler and cooler bands ie PIG and
the aforementioned
sINDUSTRIAL
On Fri, 12 Jun 1998 11:05:08 -0500, Robert <rnu...@flash.net> wrote:
>Anastazia wrote:
>>
>> I would like to see what other peoples favorite KMFDM song is!
>> and CD. I'm curious :)
>> My favorite song is "Leibesleid"
>> My favorite cd is XTORT
>>
>> Courtnee
>
>My favorite song is Sex On The Flag.
>My favorite remix is Help Us Save Us Take Us Away Oktoberfest Mix.
Isn't the Oktoberfest that ambient mix? That is the single most
nauseating remix I've ever heard!
vampyre
I'd have to say that mine is "Flesh". I like the hard and sort of metal
feel the song has. The chorus is also very well written.
Robert
> Isn't the Oktoberfest that ambient mix? That is the single most
> nauseating remix I've ever heard!
What are you talking about. It is the coolest remix ever.
---Robert---
Jeremy Harris
Lance wrote:
> My favorite song surely is the live version of "DIS-O-BEDIENCE" that is
> played on the Beat By Beat Video.
Yeah, that'd be cool if it were actually live... except for the screaming
"IT'S JUST ONE TWIST", the whole thing is taken directly from the cd (or
haven't you noticed how Raymond's mouth doesn't quite move with the music?)
Jeremy Harris
Lance
> Yeah, that'd be cool if it were actually live... except for the
screaming
> "IT'S JUST ONE TWIST", the whole thing is taken directly from the cd (or
> haven't you noticed how Raymond's mouth doesn't quite move with the music?)
>
> Jeremy Harris
I realized, and that's what made me like it better than the actual ablum
version...that and the little part where En Esch does a little
scream/growl thing.
It also just has a cooler -feel- to it. I dunno. Maybe I just like
seeing Jennifer Ginsberg during the vid...
-DWLance
KMFDM2000
My fav is "Light" and "Search and Destroy"
MT
Hi there,
I thought you said you weren't going to post here anymore?
VoydCoyle wrote:
>
> favorite song: vogue
Nuh - uh. I would go with "Unfit (God & the State Mix)." Or "Anarchy."
"JJJ." "Dis -O- Bedience" is good, too.
> album: too hard to choose! top 3 tied: uaioe, money, nihil
I think it's just me, but I don't like any of those. My fave album is
*@%#$, the 1997 one. Nihil was a good break from recycled KMFDM fare,
especially with Watts, but I found some of the songs to be barely
swallowable. I haven't heard Money (But I have the single). And I got
rid of UAIOE (This means nothing, Goddammit!) because it was
unbelievably generic KMFDM stuff. I recall two songs with almost
identical intros. Cheap.
Yup, *@%#$ is the *#%&.
> single/ep: virus
I thought Light was pretty awesome. I forget who does Track 8, but that
has an awesome interpretation. NIN's appearance was excellent, as well.
But Virus ranks just below that.
> best german: bargeld
I don't think I'm the only one that would say "Leid Und Elend" here.
Some more:
Best vocals: "Stray Bullet."
Best guitars: "Anarchy."
Best remix: "Unfit (God & the State Mix)."
Best costume: Jennifer Ginsberg. Mmmmmmm.
Additions, people! Move it, move it, move it!
--
Remove NOSPAM to reply.
Grinding into Emptiness, industrial e-zine: http://www.emptiness.net.
sco...@my-dejanews.com
In article <3582A6...@flash.net>,
I'd have to agree. It's one of my favorites, the last track on my KMFDM road
mix CD.
VoydCoyle
favorite song: vogue
album: too hard to choose! top 3 tied: uaioe, money, nihil
best german: bargeld
richard lacy
Favorite Song: Virus
Favorite Album: Angst
I'm still looking for the original NAIVE disc. Can anyone help me?
Anastazia <wi...@sd.cybernex.net> wrote in article
<35805568...@sd.cybernex.net>...
> I would like to see what other peoples favorite KMFDM song is!
> and CD. I'm curious :)
> My favorite song is "Leibesleid"
> My favorite cd is XTORT
>
> Courtnee
MJesterF
Best German: Leibesleid
Best vocals: Any fucking Raymond Watts vocalized tune!
Best guitars: Flesh
Best remix: JJJ (Metropolis Mix)
Best costume: En Esch in the Beat By Beat Video, with that little beany hat,
and stockings? LMAO!
Scfry1997
"Oh Look"
Curtis
MIC SPECTRE
album:NIHL
single:YEAR OF THE PIG
song:POWER
MIC
GenericCrp
> Nuh - uh. I would go with "Unfit (God & the State Mix)." Or "Anarchy."
>"JJJ." "Dis -O- Bedience" is good, too.
>
>*@%#$, the 1997 one. Nihil was a good break from recycled KMFDM fare,
>especially with Watts, but I found some of the songs to be barely
>swallowable. I haven't heard Money (But I have the single). And I got
>rid of UAIOE (This means nothing, Goddammit!) because it was
>unbelievably generic KMFDM stuff. I recall two songs with almost
>identical intros. Cheap.
Bah, what's wrong with you new schoolers!
Personally, I feel that some of KMFDM's best material came from the pre-"Nihil"
period; I know there are plenty of people on here who can attest to the fact
that the "Split" and "Godlike" singles are some of the most brilliant material
the band has ever done. Oh, and lest I forget "Virus" or "Vogue"?
> Grinding into Emptiness, industrial e-zine: > http://www.emptiness.net.
You really damage your credibility by putting that in your sig file...
Cheers!
Brandt
Generic Productions Corporation: "Where Assimilation Is A Way Of Life"
An online music collective featuring (fearfeedsfear) and mindframe.
Internetmagazine
http://www.generic-productions.net/
E-Mail: bra...@generic-productions.net
MT
GenericCrp wrote:
>
> > Nuh - uh. I would go with "Unfit (God & the State Mix)." Or
> >"Anarchy." "JJJ." "Dis -O- Bedience" is good, too.
> >
> > I think it's just me, but I don't like any of those. My fave
> >album is *@%#$, the 1997 one. Nihil was a good break from recycled
> >KMFDM fare, especially with Watts, but I found some of the songs to
> >be barely swallowable. I haven't heard Money (But I have the single).
> >And I got rid of UAIOE (This means nothing, Goddammit!) because it
> >was unbelievably generic KMFDM stuff. I recall two songs with almost
> >identical intros. Cheap.
>
> Bah, what's wrong with you new schoolers!
The opposite of what's wrong with the old schoolers, I suppose. I'm not
really fond of KMFDM's coldwave style. The electronic manipulation on
*@%#$ ruled, and that's exactly what makes me like it.
> Personally, I feel that some of KMFDM's best material came from the
> pre-"Nihil" period; I know there are plenty of people on here who can
> attest to the fact that the "Split" and "Godlike" singles are some of
> the most brilliant material the band has ever done. Oh, and lest I
> forget "Virus" or "Vogue"?
I don't mind that stuff, especially since it wasn't as formulaic as
KMFDM has turned out to be. Of course, I don't have any of the singles
you mention above, so I can't pass judgment on them. OUT OF WHAT I OWN
(I'm not a diehard collector - I have a long want list apart from this
band), I like *@%#$ the best.
> > Grinding into Emptiness, industrial e-zine:
> >http://www.emptiness.net.
>
> You really damage your credibility by putting that in your sig file...
You really damage your own credibility with a name containing the word
"generic." It makes me think of conformity, wanting to suck up to others
to belong...
But what the hell are you talking about? You used to write for GiE, if
I recall correctly. If you got kicked off or something, don't blame me.
I write about the music I like in the hopes that more people will buy it
(Speaking for industrial in general, because it is a VERY small scene).
GiE is a well-designed mag, and I'm proud to contribute to it.
--
Remove NOSPAM to reply.
Grinding into Emptiness, industrial e-zine: http://www.emptiness.net.
GenericCrp
> The opposite of what's wrong with the old schoolers, I suppose. I'm not
>really fond of KMFDM's coldwave style. The electronic manipulation on
>*@%#$ ruled, and that's exactly what makes me like it.
The last time I checked, "Naive" and "Money" hardly qualify as coldwave, while
albums as early as "UAIOE" fall more in an electro-reggae framework.
But in any case, what KMFDM were able to force out of such primitive equipment
on the aforementioned albums rivals anything they've done on their past two or
three records. Just because they acquired the latest technology doesn't mean
they're doing the most groundbreaking work with it...
> I don't mind that stuff, especially since it wasn't as formulaic as
>KMFDM has turned out to be. Of course, I don't have any of the singles
>you mention above, so I can't pass judgment on them. OUT OF WHAT I OWN
>(I'm not a diehard collector - I have a long want list apart from this
>band), I like *@%#$ the best.
All of those singles come highly recommended from most listeners, as they are
definitely indicative of the band's most well developed work. Having the
"Naive" disc is a helpful, but non-essential, companion piece to these singles
as well.
> You really damage your own credibility with a name containing the word
>"generic." It makes me think of conformity, wanting to suck up to others
>to belong...
Actually, being called "Generic Productions" is just a really good reason to
use a bar code in the logo, but conformity is hardly part of the equation.
> But what the hell are you talking about? You used to write for GiE, if
>I recall correctly. If you got kicked off or something, don't blame me.
>I write about the music I like in the hopes that more people will buy it
>(Speaking for industrial in general, because it is a VERY small scene).
>GiE is a well-designed mag, and I'm proud to contribute to it.
Kicked off? Hardly. I stopped sending Scott submissions when I saw that his
writing was on par with that of a seventh grader. And writing about electronic
music is fine, but meandering diatribes that give little useful information
about the releases are not.
Well designed, maybe, but Scott's just smart enough to remove the meta
generator tags from the HTML files...
Nihilified
VOGUE
Saraesque
>Anastazia <wi...@sd.cybernex.net> wrote in article
><35805568...@sd.cybernex.net>...
>> I would like to see what other peoples favorite KMFDM song is!
>> and CD. I'm curious :)
my favorite KMFDM song? that's a toughie since i have 2.
Disobedience and LUST.
i don't have a favorite KMFDM cd.
Nancyboy.
MT
mih...@my-dejanews.com wrote:
>
> In article <199806211509...@ladder01.news.aol.com>,
> gener...@aol.com (GenericCrp) wrote:
> >
> > Kicked off? Hardly. I stopped sending Scott submissions when I saw
> > that his writing was on par with that of a seventh grader.
> >
Oh, and I have something to add to this. I realize that you may be
disgusted with the lack of time Scott may put into his work, and you may
not consider running four-five separate sites an appropriate excuse for
lack of time. That's okay.
But what really irked me so much was that you wrote off the entire mag
and its writers - not to mention left GiE - just because of the way one
person writes. That's kind of silly. It would have been better to stay
and leave Scott to design the mag instead of write, if it really
bothered you that much.
Now, back to KMFDM. Or Rammstein. Whichever gets more action here now.
:)
mih...@my-dejanews.com
> >really fond of KMFDM's coldwave style. The electronic manipulation on
> >*@%#$ ruled, and that's exactly what makes me like it.
>
> The last time I checked, "Naive" and "Money" hardly qualify as coldwave, while
> albums as early as "UAIOE" fall more in an electro-reggae framework.
Well, what I meant was "coldwave" in a very loose sense. Basically,
guitar-based industrial. And I do agree with your UAIOE classification; that's
what hit me right away, and I didn't like it all that much.
> But in any case, what KMFDM were able to force out of such primitive equipment
> on the aforementioned albums rivals anything they've done on their past two or
> three records. Just because they acquired the latest technology doesn't mean
> they're doing the most groundbreaking work with it...
True, but you immediately assume that I like something just because it is
groundbreaking. I'm not impressed by how much a band can produce with limited
equipment right off the bat; I listen to the music first. In KMFDM's case, I
disliked the earlier albums, and so the equipment factor would have been more
of a detraction than a plus. In my case, I would have said, "Why the hell
didn't they get more equipment and do it *right?* 'Course, I didn't actually
say that, and most likely would not. I'm only impressed with Praise the Lard
(PIG) in that aspect, because of what awesome stuff Watts did with limited
resources. Finally, to get to the point, it's not the technology and what
they did with it that impresses me immediately. In *@%#$'s case, I liked the
music. I still enjoy that album more than I enjoy anything else I have by
them. I may be misinformed, but it seems to me that *@%#$ is not a *true*
KMFDM album. Obviously, the amount of contributors is a clue, but the whole
formulaic idea that KMFDM seemed to have been pushing went out the window. I
honestly think that *@%#$ is an excellent album, regardless of how effortless
it was.
> > I don't mind that stuff, especially since it wasn't as formulaic as
> >KMFDM has turned out to be. Of course, I don't have any of the singles
> >you mention above, so I can't pass judgment on them. OUT OF WHAT I OWN
> >(I'm not a diehard collector - I have a long want list apart from this
> >band), I like *@%#$ the best.
>
> All of those singles come highly recommended from most listeners, as they are
> definitely indicative of the band's most well developed work. Having the
> "Naive" disc is a helpful, but non-essential, companion piece to these singles
> as well.
Well, I'm certain I can rule out the possibility of getting Naīve legally,
and I'm not sure I even want it at all. I will add the singles to my list,
though. They can't hurt.
> > You really damage your own credibility with a name containing the word
> >"generic." It makes me think of conformity, wanting to suck up to others
> >to belong...
>
> Actually, being called "Generic Productions" is just a really good reason to
> use a bar code in the logo, but conformity is hardly part of the equation.
Ah, sorry. :) I just got sort of offended by the way you attacked me for
being affiliated with GiE, and seeing as how Generic is the only
comprehensible word in your ID, I jumped on that.
> > But what the hell are you talking about? You used to write for GiE, if
> >I recall correctly. If you got kicked off or something, don't blame me.
> >I write about the music I like in the hopes that more people will buy it
> >(Speaking for industrial in general, because it is a VERY small scene).
> >GiE is a well-designed mag, and I'm proud to contribute to it.
>
> Kicked off? Hardly. I stopped sending Scott submissions when I saw that his
> writing was on par with that of a seventh grader. And writing about
> electronic music is fine, but meandering diatribes that give little useful
> information about the releases are not.
Well, I'm certainly glad you weren't kicked off. I recall reading some of
your reviews, with the PIG: Wrecked one being foremost in my mind.. You write
really well. BTW - who is the last sentence referring to? I have a similar
concern, that I don't describe the music enough to allow people to make their
own decisions, but I hope I'm not failing that badly.
Oh, and I'm posting this from DejaNews because this message hasn't showed
up on the NG on my real server. Either ID will work if you want to reply in
e-mail, though.
MJesterF
Favorite song?
Probably Juke Joint Jezebel, seeing how that is the song that got me started
into KMFDM. As for a favorite album, Nihil and *#%$! come real close, with
Nihil just coming out on top.
OH, BTW, hopefully someone can answer me a question. I went to my local suck
ass record store today, and i found a display for Angst, like it had just came
out that day. they had like 5 discs, and a couple cassettes just chilling by
themselves in a sorta new release section, along side other heavy metal bands.
Peter Burka
MJesterF wrote:
>
8< --- (snip) ---
>
> OH, BTW, hopefully someone can answer me a question. I went to my local suck
> ass record store today, and i found a display for Angst, like it had just came
> out that day. they had like 5 discs, and a couple cassettes just chilling by
> themselves in a sorta new release section, along side other heavy metal bands.
And the answer is . . . 42?
peter (still wondering what the question was)
GenericCrp
> Well, what I meant was "coldwave" in a very loose sense. Basically,
>guitar-based industrial. And I do agree with your UAIOE classification;
>that's
>what hit me right away, and I didn't like it all that much.
I'll definitely say that "UAIOE" took me some getting used to; however, once
you get past the primitive sound, you'll actually find some really enjoyable
material on the disc. "More And Faster" is a given, and stuff like "Murder"
and "En Esch" are definitely solid tracks as well.
Have you given "Don't Blow Your Top" or "What Do You Know, Deutschland?" a
shot?
> True, but you immediately assume that I like something just because it is
>groundbreaking. I'm not impressed by how much a band can produce with limited
>equipment right off the bat; I listen to the music first. In KMFDM's case, I
>disliked the earlier albums, and so the equipment factor would have been more
>of a detraction than a plus. In my case, I would have said, "Why the hell
>didn't they get more equipment and do it *right?* 'Course, I didn't actually
>say that, and most likely would not. I'm only impressed with Praise the Lard
>(PIG) in that aspect, because of what awesome stuff Watts did with limited
>resources.
Yeah... I generally approach things from the aspect of innovation because, with
the amount of music (particularly electronic-based) that I listen to on a daily
basis, it gets to the point where I need something aurally exciting to really
open my ears. However, I will say that "The New Album" is probably, with
"Nihil" as a close second, the band's most well developed record to date in
terms of pure songcraft, which is probably what caught your ear.
Finally, to get to the point, it's not the technology and what
>they did with it that impresses me immediately. In *@%#$'s case, I liked the
>music. I still enjoy that album more than I enjoy anything else I have by
>them. I may be misinformed, but it seems to me that *@%#$ is not a *true*
>KMFDM album. Obviously, the amount of contributors is a clue, but the whole
>formulaic idea that KMFDM seemed to have been pushing went out the window. I
>honestly think that *@%#$ is an excellent album, regardless of how effortless
>it was.
Personally, I think KMFDM is a lot less formulaic than most would think. To
the average listener, I can see how their output would seem clone-like, but
they fail to notice the musical nuances in each disc that make them
exhilarating listens. Albums like "Xtort" have come under a lot of criticism
for being carbon copy releases, but for the life of me I can't find anything in
KMFDM's catalogue like "Craze," "Dogma," and "Rules." Consequently, I didn't
see "The New Album" as being any less formulaic than its predecessors.
> Well, I'm certain I can rule out the possibility of getting Naīve legally,
>and I'm not sure I even want it at all. I will add the singles to my list,
>though. They can't hurt.
I'd be happy to make you a dub of "Naive" if you would send me a snail mail
address (lets just hope Sascha doesn't see this and send his terrorist robots
to my house).
> Ah, sorry. :) I just got sort of offended by the way you attacked me for
>being affiliated with GiE, and seeing as how Generic is the only
>comprehensible word in your ID, I jumped on that.
It was more of an attack on the quality of GiE than you personally, so no
offense intended.
> Well, I'm certainly glad you weren't kicked off. I recall reading some of
>your reviews, with the PIG: Wrecked one being foremost in my mind.. You write
>really well.
Thanks... that one took quite a while to formulate. The people at Wax Trax!
were very pleased when I faxed it with my Pig interview request.
>BTW - who is the last sentence referring to? I have a similar
>concern, that I don't describe the music enough to allow people to make >their
own decisions, but I hope I'm not failing that badly.
Actually, that was directed at Scott, since he seems to churn out most of the
pathetic text for that rag. Today I went there to check out some of your
writing, and I'm actually quite impressed. In response to your concern, it
takes a long time to find that balance between description and your opinion, so
keep working on it. Just don't fall into the trap of praising/ripping a record
more than necessary, as that can seriously damage your credibility as a music
journalist with people who happen to have a different opinion.
GenericCrp
> Oh, and I have something to add to this. I realize that you may be
>disgusted with the lack of time Scott may put into his work, and you may
>not consider running four-five separate sites an appropriate excuse for
>lack of time. That's okay.
The webzine movement has really exploded in the past year or so, which as a
result has raised the journalistic standards for the magazines out there. With
so many different publications to choose from, I want the ones that will give
me the most bang for my dialup or subscription buck, whatever the case may be.
And from what I have read, the majority of GiE isn't worth the bandwidth.
> But what really irked me so much was that you wrote off the entire mag
>and its writers - not to mention left GiE - just because of the way one
>person writes. That's kind of silly. It would have been better to stay
>and leave Scott to design the mag instead of write, if it really
>bothered you that much.
Well, I've read GiE thoroughly, and it appears as if the vast majority of the
pieces are Scott's. Consequently, the vast majority of the magazine was
directionless and uninformative. So why should I bother to read a magazine
with only a few well written articles, when I can pull up Sonic-Boom,
Industrial Bible, or Base Asylum and find a solid magazine chock full of
informative and engaging reading?
evilchild
GenericCrp wrote in message
<199806230735...@ladder03.news.aol.com>...
>The webzine movement has really exploded in the past year or so, which as a
>result has raised the journalistic standards for the magazines out there.
With
>so many different publications to choose from, I want the ones that will
give
>me the most bang for my dialup or subscription buck, whatever the case may
be.
I couldn't agree more. As a co-host of a relatively new webzine (although I
hate calling us that), I have found it very difficult to find people who can
write reviews WELL...hence the reviews section of our site does not contain
anything, which is unfortunate. Hell, I would write the reviews myself
except for the fact that my writing skills suck...which would defeat the
whole purpose. High journalistic standards is something people should shoot
for, regardless of the amount of competition. hehe...it does look like *I*
will actually have to break down and write a review for someone, so if you
want another good example of poor review writing, check out my site in the
next week or so :)
~evilchild~
decadence+damnation+disobedience
http://www.lowlife.com
home of the Industrial Event calendar
NO Divx - http://techzone.weezy.com/dvd-faq.htm
MT
GenericCrp wrote:
>
> > Well, what I meant was "coldwave" in a very loose sense.
> >Basically, guitar-based industrial. And I do agree with your UAIOE
> >classification; that's what hit me right away, and I didn't like it
> >all that much.
>
> I'll definitely say that "UAIOE" took me some getting used to;
> however, once you get past the primitive sound, you'll actually find
> some really enjoyable material on the disc. "More And Faster" is a
> given, and stuff like "Murder" and "En Esch" are definitely solid
> tracks as well.
Well, I can't comment. I DID mention I sold the disc, right? Or maybe I
traded it. In any case, I don't have it anymore. I figured if a month of
listening wasn't enough, then it was pointless.
> Have you given "Don't Blow Your Top" or "What Do You Know,
> Deutschland?" a shot?
No. *Sigh* Back to the old want list.
When I go to a music store in a couple of days, I'll try to see if I
can find a copy of each, and take a listen. If nothing really gets my
attention, it isn't worth owning.
> > True, but you immediately assume that I like something just because
> >it is groundbreaking. I'm not impressed by how much a band can
> >produce with limited equipment right off the bat; I listen to the
> >music first. In KMFDM's case, I disliked the earlier albums, and so
> >the equipment factor would have been more of a detraction than a
> >plus. In my case, I would have said, "Why the hell didn't they get
> >more equipment and do it *right?* 'Course, I didn't actually
> >say that, and most likely would not. I'm only impressed with Praise
> >the Lard (PIG) in that aspect, because of what awesome stuff Watts
> >did with limited resources.
>
> Yeah... I generally approach things from the aspect of innovation
> because, with the amount of music (particularly electronic-based) that
> I listen to on a daily basis, it gets to the point where I need
> something aurally exciting to really open my ears.
I don't mean to be rude, but I feel sorry for you. However, I know
exactly what you mean, so I shouldn't talk.
But considering we're talking about music, I never use innovation as
the primary judging criterium. I try to find the music and stick with
that. However, I do get really depressed and bored at times when every
single song is imprinted on my psyche. Literally. I can go through every
pop-based CD I own, look at the track listing, and play the song in my
head.
At that point, I break out the noise and experimental. Out comes Aube,
Coil, Swans. They smash away my mind, and then I just listen to
everything pop all over again.
*Sigh* Just writing that made me depressed.
Anyway, once I'm bored with the music, I CAN listen to it, but I see no
point. Nor do I see how measuring an artists' efficiency with his tools
will help me. It might make me appreciate something more, but will it
entertain me? No.
> However, I will say that "The New Album" is probably, with "Nihil" as
> a close second, the band's most well developed record to date in terms
> of pure songcraft, which is probably what caught your ear.
That's probably it, since I like Nihil quite a bit, too. It has some
weak moments, but it's good.
> >Finally, to get to the point, it's not the technology and what they
> >did with it that impresses me immediately. In *@%#$'s case, I liked
> >the music. I still enjoy that album more than I enjoy anything else I
> >have by them. I may be misinformed, but it seems to me that *@%#$ is
> >not a *true* KMFDM album. Obviously, the amount of contributors is a
> >clue, but the whole formulaic idea that KMFDM seemed to have been
> >pushing went out the window. I honestly think that *@%#$ is an
> >excellent album, regardless of how effortless it was.
>
> Personally, I think KMFDM is a lot less formulaic than most would
> think.
Well, I know they aren't exactly like that. This is how I meant it -
the older material is probably linked by a similar sound, whereas
KMFDM's middle era is dancy. The latest, then, was sort of guitary. And
then comes *@%#$, which is sort of a combination of what I liked best in
UAIOE, Naïve, and Nihil. So, KMFDM has 'eras,' and this is the beginning
of a new one.
> To the average listener, I can see how their output would seem
> clone-like, but they fail to notice the musical nuances in each disc
> that make them exhilarating listens.
Hee hee. :) Not to be rude, but this reminds me of Puff Daddy. I called
him a clone, and someone said something almost exactly like the above,
in reference to separate tracks.
What I'm trying to say is, although I may not be giving KMFDM enough
credit, even you agree the music seems really similar. And I question if
it is really even necessary to get all the albums.
That's why I like PIG, because there is a LOT of evolution and change,
but that's another story.
> Albums like "Xtort" have come under a lot of criticism for being
> carbon copy releases, but for the life of me I can't find anything in
> KMFDM's catalogue like "Craze," "Dogma," and "Rules."
I've never heard anything along those lines. I've always gotten the
impression that people thought Xtort was just crap, without any
reference to it being recycled. I can't hear that many similarities, but
then I don't own the whole discog.
> Consequently, I didn't see "The New Album" as being any less formulaic
> than its predecessors.
Well, if there is another album like it, then I've gotta get it!
> > Ah, sorry. :) I just got sort of offended by the way you attacked
> >me for being affiliated with GiE, and seeing as how Generic is the
> >only comprehensible word in your ID, I jumped on that.
>
> It was more of an attack on the quality of GiE than you personally, so
> no offense intended.
Well, it's okay. I must admit you made some valid points in the other
post, and I'm going to see if I can talk to Scott about improving some
stuff.
> > Well, I'm certainly glad you weren't kicked off. I recall reading
> >some of your reviews, with the PIG: Wrecked one being foremost in my
> >mind.. You write really well.
>
> Thanks... that one took quite a while to formulate. The people at Wax
> Trax! were very pleased when I faxed it with my Pig interview request.
I can see why. You say it took some time to write, though? I've always
felt that I had somewhat rushed reviews. In your experience, have bands
gotten offended or impatient if you took, let's say, a week to write a
review?
> >BTW - who is the last sentence referring to? I have a similar
> >concern, that I don't describe the music enough to allow people to
> >make their own decisions, but I hope I'm not failing that badly.
>
> Actually, that was directed at Scott, since he seems to churn out most
> of the pathetic text for that rag.
Some of his reviews are bad, but some are equally good (To me). I
understand that you're looking for a well-written magazine, but I look
for good descriptions. Scott describes his reactions to the music, and
compares it to other bands' styles so I can get an idea.
BTW - do you really consider Sonic-Boom well-written? Not to rag on
Jester, but some of the reviews are just unbelievable. It's not the
honesty I'm talking about, but rather the "I just want to get this over
with" sort of feeling I get sometimes.
> Today I went there to check out some of your writing, and I'm actually
> quite impressed. In response to your concern, it takes a long time to
> find that balance between description and your opinion, so keep
> working on it.
I will, thanks.
> Just don't fall into the trap of praising/ripping a record more than
> necessary, as that can seriously damage your credibility as a music
> journalist with people who happen to have a different opinion.
Oh, crap. I take it you haven't read my PIG reviews.
Saraesque
Hi. I have a question:
does anyone have En Esch's Cheesy album?
if so: do you like it? why or why not?
that's all.
Saraesque.
Brian Frisch
Saraesque wrote in message
<199806240134...@ladder01.news.aol.com>...
Yeah, I have it. I would be willing to mp3 some samples (not the whole
songs) for you if you would like.
FailSafe
> Saraesque wrote in message
> <199806240134...@ladder01.news.aol.com>...
> >Hi. I have a question:
> >does anyone have En Esch's Cheesy album?
> >if so: do you like it? why or why not?
> >that's all.
> >Saraesque.
I have it.
I love it.
Because it's cheesy.
--
FailSafe
Remove SPAM to reply
-----
If a pronoun is a word used in place of a noun,
is a proverb a word used in place of a verb?
Saraesque
>Yeah, I have it. I would be willing to mp3 some samples (not the whole
>songs) for you if you would like.
no need to. i am against mp3.
A. Baig
Well this is just my opinion but I thought it sucked. It was really bad.
I don't have it anymore cause I hated it. There's nothing really
impressive about it. I think there was one good song off of it but I
don't remember the name. I got rid of the cd 3 years ago. I think it was
the second track so if anyone has the cd they can name it. Anyways, it's
different from kmfdm but not too far off. It has guitars and synths and
he adds other things that kmfdm might not add (or maybe I just haven't
heard any) like harmonicas. Anyways, thats just my vague opinion, maybe
someone else can be a little more descriptive.
GenericCrp
> Well, I can't comment. I DID mention I sold the disc, right? Or maybe I
>traded it. In any case, I don't have it anymore. I figured if a month of
>listening wasn't enough, then it was pointless.
Hell, it took me a whole year to really get into the groove of "UAIOE." When I
first got the disc, I was slightly disappointed, so I put it on the shelf for a
while. The next time I picked it up, it just hit me - like my tastes needed
time to develop.
> When I go to a music store in a couple of days, I'll try to see if I
>can find a copy of each, and take a listen. If nothing really gets my
>attention, it isn't worth owning.
The songwriting on those discs is actually a lot more accessible when compared
to the likes of "UAIOE," especially since Raymond Watts was involved with both
discs. The songwriting is really strong, yet experimental in many respects.
Keep in mind that the productions is quite primitive in an 80's, Wax
Trax!-kinda way. However, don't let that deter you from giving either one a
shot.
> I don't mean to be rude, but I feel sorry for you. However, I know
>exactly what you mean, so I shouldn't talk.
I feel sorry for me as well. However, what I really feel sorry for is the
electronic genre as a whole; its sad that innovation has become such a low
priority with many artists. I'm not saying that they have to go crazy with
experimentation, but they could at least make an effort to avoid stagnation!
> But considering we're talking about music, I never use innovation as
>the primary judging criterium. I try to find the music and stick with
>that. However, I do get really depressed and bored at times when every
>single song is imprinted on my psyche. Literally. I can go through every
>pop-based CD I own, look at the track listing, and play the song in my
>head.
Well, it isn't as much that I know all the songs in my collection (since it is
incredibly large), but so many of them sound similar enough that it just
becomes one big electronic blur! By the end of the day, I usually break out
the Miles Davis and John Coltrane discs for relief.
> At that point, I break out the noise and experimental. Out comes Aube,
>Coil, Swans. They smash away my mind, and then I just listen to
>everything pop all over again.
Like I said, its not that I know everything in my collection, but that very few
of the artists out there are attempting to break out of the musical ruts they
have dug themselves into! Songwriting will always be the most important, but
there is a point where I am no longer satiated by pureile pop.
> Anyway, once I'm bored with the music, I CAN listen to it, but I see no
>point. Nor do I see how measuring an artists' efficiency with his tools
>will help me. It might make me appreciate something more, but will it
>entertain me? No.
Well, to use Pig as an example, I think it is amazing how he creates such
memorable works with such limited resources; it helps me appreciate both the
songwriting and innovational aspects more.
However, it should be noted that I am a musician myself, and therefore am
intrigued with the technical angle more than your average listener.
> That's probably it, since I like Nihil quite a bit, too. It has some
>weak moments, but it's good.
As I said earlier, "Naive" and its accompanying singles are certainly up there
as well.
> Well, I know they aren't exactly like that. This is how I meant it -
>the older material is probably linked by a similar sound, whereas
>KMFDM's middle era is dancy. The latest, then, was sort of guitary. And
>then comes *@%#$, which is sort of a combination of what I liked best in
>UAIOE, Naïve, and Nihil. So, KMFDM has 'eras,' and this is the beginning
>of a new one.
I do see what you mean, however, I don't think that the leap from "Xtort" to
"The New Album" is as drastic as, let's say, "UAIOE" to "Naive" or "Money" to
"Angst." In other words, I don't think that the guitar heavy era has
culminated quite yet; there still is a lot of musical development left to go.
> Hee hee. :) Not to be rude, but this reminds me of Puff Daddy. I called
>him a clone, and someone said something almost exactly like the above,
>in reference to separate tracks.
Well, Puff Daddy is a clone not in the sense that everything he does sounds the
same, but that he relies on the past songwriting efforts of Sting and Jimmy
Page to create his music. I mean, other than some bad rapping, his blatant
copy of "Every Breath You Take" has ZERO to offer in terms of new music, and is
essentially an aural clone.
> What I'm trying to say is, although I may not be giving KMFDM enough
>credit, even you agree the music seems really similar. And I question if
>it is really even necessary to get all the albums.
Well, to use your position against you, the "vibe" may be similar, but the
"songwriting" itself is widely varied if you look at the band's entire
catalogue. Most bands have a common musical thread running through their
careers, even if their catalogue is widely varied in sound and style. As a
result, while "Kickin' Ass" may have a similar vibe to "Megalomaniac," they are
still drastically differing pieces.
> That's why I like PIG, because there is a LOT of evolution and change,
>but that's another story.
Well, Raymond is really the exception to the exception; most artists can't get
away with covering the vast area of musical ground that he has in under a
decade.
> I've never heard anything along those lines. I've always gotten the
>impression that people thought Xtort was just crap, without any
>reference to it being recycled. I can't hear that many similarities, but
>then I don't own the whole discog.
Most people make the generalization that just because "Power" and "Inane" are
particularly derivative, that the remainder of the record is as well. I've
heard a few people complain about how the album was simply crap, but I think
they were turned off by a lot of the more experimental aspects of the band's
delivery. Personally, I think "Xtort" is an incredible disc that features both
excellent songwriting and innovational sounds, but I can understand how people
introduced through the accessibility of "Nihil" would be turned off.
> Well, if there is another album like it, then I've gotta get it!
"Angst" and "Nihil" are probably the closest, with "Money" as well, although
the production isn't as well developed. The band's sound, particularly with
the electronics on "Xtort," got quite a bit "larger" sounding due to improved
production, which added to the appeal of "The New Album."
> Well, it's okay. I must admit you made some valid points in the other
>post, and I'm going to see if I can talk to Scott about improving some
>stuff.
Try relegating Scott to the design angle.
> I can see why. You say it took some time to write, though? I've always
>felt that I had somewhat rushed reviews. In your experience, have bands
>gotten offended or impatient if you took, let's say, a week to write a
>review?
Sometimes reviews can take me months. Call me a perfectionist, but I don't
like to publish a review until I've said what needs to be said in the most
honest, accurate, and descriptive fashion, and without injecting too much of my
twisted opinion! Many people think the art of reviewing is entirely based on
their opinion, which is simply not true; the reviewer has a responsibility to
not only critique, but describe and compare a release as well. For example,
you can't trash an electro record just because you love guitars; that would be
insulting to the reader and artist. Its your responsibility to evaluate the
record for what it is, not what you would like it to be, which often is very
tedious process.
> Some of his reviews are bad, but some are equally good (To me). I
>understand that you're looking for a well-written magazine, but I look
>for good descriptions. Scott describes his reactions to the music, and
>compares it to other bands' styles so I can get an idea.
But you see, it takes more than just descriptions and comparisons to really
"describe" a disc for your readers, as it takes more than that to transpose the
experience of listening to words. Scott fails to inject any emotion into his
writing, and therefore, despite his highest praises of some discs, makes
everything he reviews sound uninspiring. Give me a writer who, even if he
doesn't like a disc, puts all of his emotion into that review, as that is the
ONLY way that a reader will truly care or understand.
> BTW - do you really consider Sonic-Boom well-written? Not to rag on
>Jester, but some of the reviews are just unbelievable. It's not the
>honesty I'm talking about, but rather the "I just want to get this over
>with" sort of feeling I get sometimes.
Jester's writing is like a roller coaster; some of his stuff mystifies me, but
when he's hot, he's hot. But with the amount of material he reviews, I'm not
surprised that a lot of it seems rushed.
MT
GenericCrp wrote:
>
> > Well, I can't comment. I DID mention I sold the disc, right?
> >Or maybe I traded it. In any case, I don't have it anymore. I figured
> >if a month of listening wasn't enough, then it was pointless.
>
> Hell, it took me a whole year to really get into the groove of
> "UAIOE." When I first got the disc, I was slightly disappointed, so I
> put it on the shelf for a while. The next time I picked it up, it
> just hit me - like my tastes needed time to develop.
Well, I guess I didn't allow that development. I'm not really sore
about it. To me, most albums that I can't enjoy *something* off of are
not worth keeping. I haven't passed up that many discs that way, so it
works for me.
> > When I go to a music store in a couple of days, I'll try to
> >see if I can find a copy of each, and take a listen. If nothing
> >really gets my attention, it isn't worth owning.
>
> The songwriting on those discs is actually a lot more accessible when
> compared to the likes of "UAIOE," especially since Raymond Watts was
> involved with both discs.
Awright! I like Watts.
> The songwriting is really strong, yet experimental in many respects.
That's good, too. I hate standard coldwave and EBM, since, as you say
below, a lot of that stuff is just rehashed. Experimental stuff is
goooood.
> Keep in mind that the productions is quite primitive in an 80's, Wax
> Trax!-kinda way. However, don't let that deter you from giving either
> one a shot.
Of course, I won't be deterred by the production. I own a lot of 80's
discs, not the majority of my collection, but I realize things weren't
as good back then.
> > I don't mean to be rude, but I feel sorry for you. However, I
> >know exactly what you mean, so I shouldn't talk.
>
> I feel sorry for me as well. However, what I really feel sorry for is
> the electronic genre as a whole; its sad that innovation has become
> such a low priority with many artists. I'm not saying that they have
> to go crazy with experimentation, but they could at least make an
> effort to avoid stagnation!
You said it. I remember when I first heard :W:, I thought it was pretty
good. A couple of years later, I heard it again, and thought it was
almost exactly the same! What's more, I have a hard time telling
Leætherstrip and :Wumpscut: apart now! It's unbelievably frustrating
that the bands think that they should give us the stuff we liked again.
After all, this is supposed to be *industrial,* where innovation means
something, not *pop.*
But if you're really looking for some new, good artists, I would bring
up Testube here. He's got a very good instrumental EBM style, with
noticeable/influential IDM and experimental touches. I only own Useable
Frequency Response, but it's really good. He's an underground band, but
don't let that stop you (It should actually make you more interested ;).
You can go to <http://www.guillotinegraphics.com/uef> and order the CD
(UEF CD/1002) at the ordering page for only $12 ppd. I highly recommend
it. I've had it for about a week or so, and I'm working on a review for
it right now. I'm not rushing it, since I paid for it and am not
obligated to write a review.
But I'm definitely satisfied with my purchase, and I think you might
like it, too. There're sound files at his page if you want to try them.
> Well, it isn't as much that I know all the songs in my collection
> (since it is incredibly large), but so many of them sound similar
> enough that it just becomes one big electronic blur! By the end of
> the day, I usually break out the Miles Davis and John Coltrane discs
> for relief.
Aphex Twin, too, for me. :)
> Like I said, its not that I know everything in my collection, but that
> very few of the artists out there are attempting to break out of the
> musical ruts they have dug themselves into! Songwriting will always
> be the most important, but there is a point where I am no longer
> satiated by pureile pop.
Pop isn't all that puerile, if you think about it. Of course, pure pop
is, but there is a lot of pop in industrial, even in complex artists
(Skinny Puppy).
> > Anyway, once I'm bored with the music, I CAN listen to it, but
> >I see no point. Nor do I see how measuring an artists' efficiency
> >with his tools will help me. It might make me appreciate something
> >more, but will it entertain me? No.
>
> Well, to use Pig as an example, I think it is amazing how he creates
> such memorable works with such limited resources; it helps me
> appreciate both the songwriting and innovational aspects more.
I thought that lately PIG was able to get more gear. I understand
Praise the Lard was absolutely incredible musically, and that he used
very little technology and money in making it (Only about $1000 budget)
shocks me. But I thought I read in some interviews that he has more gear
to work with now.
Which is interesting if you think about it. PIG has little gear, he
works hard, produces Praise the Lard, awesome album. PIG has lots of
gear, he takes it easy, produces Wrecked, awesome album but not as
satisfying. I don't own Prime Evil, but NOGOOHA isn't bad at all. It's
very slick.
> However, it should be noted that I am a musician myself, and therefore
> am intrigued with the technical angle more than your average listener.
Ah, I assumed as much. In that respect, I can see how you can
appreciate creativity more than the music itself.
> I do see what you mean, however, I don't think that the leap from
> "Xtort" to "The New Album" is as drastic as, let's say, "UAIOE" to
> "Naive" or "Money" to "Angst." In other words, I don't think that the
> guitar heavy era has culminated quite yet; there still is a lot of
> musical development left to go.
Not necessarily development, but change, at least. I really think that
*@%#$ downplayed the guitars and made this album focus on dancey
electronics. However, I will concede that it's more the end of an era
than the start of a new one.
> Well, Puff Daddy is a clone not in the sense that everything he does
> sounds the same, but that he relies on the past songwriting efforts of
> Sting and Jimmy Page to create his music. I mean, other than some bad
> rapping, his blatant copy of "Every Breath You Take" has ZERO to offer
> in terms of new music, and is essentially an aural clone.
And I find his sales to be so disturbing.
> Well, to use your position against you, the "vibe" may be similar, but
> the "songwriting" itself is widely varied if you look at the band's
> entire catalogue.
Actually, this isn't really using my position against me. The
songwriting is varied, yes, when you look at the catalogue in the larger
sense. But from album to album, you're right, the vibe I get is nearly
similar. There may be subtle differences between, say, Money and Xtort,
but subsequent albums don't change that drastically (Aside from the eras
thing I was pushing).
> Most bands have a common musical thread running through their careers,
> even if their catalogue is widely varied in sound and style. As a
> result, while "Kickin' Ass" may have a similar vibe to "Megalomaniac,"
> they are still drastically differing pieces.
Yeah, I see what you mean. But in this case, the musical thread you're
referring to is a large part of their work. I'm estimating very largely
here, but to me about 70% of KMFDM's sound is carried over to the next
release. At least 50%, anyway. In an album-to-album comparison, I'm also
looking for the entertainment. If I get the same effect from two
different albums, there may be no point in owning both.
> Well, Raymond is really the exception to the exception; most artists
> can't get away with covering the vast area of musical ground that he
> has in under a decade.
I wish I could add more. I only own five of his major works, but even
that tells me something about his talent and creativity.
> Most people make the generalization that just because "Power" and
> "Inane" are particularly derivative, that the remainder of the record
> is as well. I've heard a few people complain about how the album was
> simply crap, but I think they were turned off by a lot of the more
> experimental aspects of the band's delivery. Personally, I think
> "Xtort" is an incredible disc that features both excellent songwriting
> and innovational sounds, but I can understand how people introduced
> through the accessibility of "Nihil" would be turned off.
This brings an interesting thought to mind. Do you suppose that the
people who hate Xtort because they think it sucks (After Nihil) don't
own all the KMFDM albums? I think that a die-hard KMFDM fan won't feel
the same way, and not because they are making excuses but because they
really understand the band's sound and expect change.
> "Angst" and "Nihil" are probably the closest, with "Money" as well,
> although the production isn't as well developed. The band's sound,
> particularly with the electronics on "Xtort," got quite a bit "larger"
> sounding due to improved production, which added to the appeal of "The
> New Album."
Jeez, I think I've added nearly every album to my want list now.
> Try relegating Scott to the design angle.
I'm surprised you mentioned that; we were talking about that the other
day, even before you came along. Scott's put up a couple reviews in the
new format, you might want to check that out.
> Sometimes reviews can take me months. Call me a perfectionist, but I
> don't like to publish a review until I've said what needs to be said
> in the most honest, accurate, and descriptive fashion, and without
> injecting too much of my twisted opinion! Many people think the art
> of reviewing is entirely based on their opinion, which is simply not
> true; the reviewer has a responsibility to not only critique, but
> describe and compare a release as well. For example, you can't trash
> an electro record just because you love guitars; that would be
> insulting to the reader and artist. Its your responsibility to
> evaluate the record for what it is, not what you would like it to be,
> which often is very tedious process.
I really couldn't agree more. I had read tons of reviews before I began
to write them myself, and I used to analyze them just as a fan (Mostly,
I read reviews of albums I didn't own by bands I already liked). So, I
tried to get a sense of the music. And I'm betting I'm not the only who
does that, which is why I try to keep my opinion separate from my
appreciation of what the band did as is.
> But you see, it takes more than just descriptions and comparisons to
> really "describe" a disc for your readers, as it takes more than that
> to transpose the experience of listening to words. Scott fails to
> inject any emotion into his writing, and therefore, despite his
> highest praises of some discs, makes everything he reviews sound
> uninspiring. Give me a writer who, even if he doesn't like a disc,
> puts all of his emotion into that review, as that is the ONLY way that
> a reader will truly care or understand.
Ah. I'm beginning to see exactly how complex writing reviews can be.
> > BTW - do you really consider Sonic-Boom well-written? Not to
> >rag on Jester, but some of the reviews are just unbelievable. It's
> >not the honesty I'm talking about, but rather the "I just want to get
> >this over with" sort of feeling I get sometimes.
>
> Jester's writing is like a roller coaster; some of his stuff mystifies
> me, but when he's hot, he's hot. But with the amount of material he
> reviews, I'm not surprised that a lot of it seems rushed.
Hmm, Scott reviews almost as much as Jester does.. :)
But Jester's stuff isn't just rushed, some of it is really crap. I've
found many grammatical errors in his reviews, which also tells me that
he doesn't take the thing too seriously.
GenericCrp
> Well, I guess I didn't allow that development. I'm not really sore
>about it. To me, most albums that I can't enjoy *something* off of are
>not worth keeping. I haven't passed up that many discs that way, so it
>works for me.
For me, I usually give discs six months to a year before I really try to
"understand" them and appreciate their sound. Otherwise, I probably would have
sold half my CD collection. And to tell you the truth, I enjoy the discs that
aren't as "obvious" to the listener, because they make me think rather than
just listen.
The discs that hit you right off the bat as brilliant a few and far between.
Out of 700 CD's, 100 cassettes, and 300 records, there are about 20 releases
total that I connected with from the moment I heard them. That's a damn small
ratio.
> Awright! I like Watts.
Don't we all!
> That's good, too. I hate standard coldwave and EBM, since, as you say
>below, a lot of that stuff is just rehashed. Experimental stuff is
>goooood.
Its having to review all that standard coldwave, EBM, and electro that has
forced me into my current listening rut. Bah... I hope I never have to hear
half the stuff that Metropolis puts out again...
> Of course, I won't be deterred by the production. I own a lot of 80's
>discs, not the majority of my collection, but I realize things weren't
>as good back then.
Well, even in the context of the 80's, the "Wax Trax!" sound was always a
particularly stripped down, low-fidelity one. However, it is a sound I happen
to enjoy, seeing as how I am a Wax Trax! collector and all around fanatic!
> You said it. I remember when I first heard :W:, I thought it was pretty
>good. A couple of years later, I heard it again, and thought it was
>almost exactly the same! What's more, I have a hard time telling
>Leætherstrip and :Wumpscut: apart now! It's unbelievably frustrating
>that the bands think that they should give us the stuff we liked again.
>After all, this is supposed to be *industrial,* where innovation means
>something, not *pop.*
I still don't understand why so many people think that :Wumpscut: is the best
thing since sliced bread; they're obviously either novice listeners to the
genre, or easily entertained. Other than "Bunkertor Seiben," I can't think of
any other release of Rudy's that, as you said, isn't mundane or a Leaether
Strip knockoff.
> But if you're really looking for some new, good artists, I would bring
>up Testube here. He's got a very good instrumental EBM style, with
>noticeable/influential IDM and experimental touches. I only own Useable
>Frequency Response, but it's really good. He's an underground band, but
>don't let that stop you (It should actually make you more interested ;).
I'm one step ahead of you... picked up his disc a few months ago along with the
"Cyberpuncture" compilation in a promotional package, and I was pleased with my
first listen, but I'm still giving it a few months before I really "listen" to
it again.
> You can go to <http://www.guillotinegraphics.com/uef> and order the CD
>(UEF CD/1002) at the ordering page for only $12 ppd. I highly recommend
>it. I've had it for about a week or so, and I'm working on a review for
>it right now. I'm not rushing it, since I paid for it and am not
>obligated to write a review.
> But I'm definitely satisfied with my purchase, and I think you might
>like it, too. There're sound files at his page if you want to try them.
If I were to write my reviews only a week after I got the discs, people would
generally think I was one fickle SOB! As I said earlier, giving music time to
sink in to your psyche is an essential part of giving an honest review of a
disc. First impressions are generally not a good measure of quality for music,
since they barely nick the surface of the music.
> Aphex Twin, too, for me. :)
Great music, but don't get me started on the live show...
> Pop isn't all that puerile, if you think about it. Of course, pure pop
>is, but there is a lot of pop in industrial, even in complex artists
>(Skinny Puppy).
Well, pop shouldn't be pureile, but in an age of Puff Daddy and his ilk, pop no
longer has any lasting quality for the listener. The best music is the kind
that doesn't go stale just because its a decade old or because its no longer in
the top 40. That's exactly why I'm so amazed by the Wax Trax! output - even
after 15 years, I can put "Attack Ships On Fire" or "Don't Crash" on the
turntable, and the music still means something.
> I thought that lately PIG was able to get more gear. I understand
>Praise the Lard was absolutely incredible musically, and that he used
>very little technology and money in making it (Only about $1000 budget)
>shocks me. But I thought I read in some interviews that he has more gear
>to work with now.
He may have more gear, but compared to most artists, his studio setup is still
relatively limited.
> Which is interesting if you think about it. PIG has little gear, he
>works hard, produces Praise the Lard, awesome album. PIG has lots of
>gear, he takes it easy, produces Wrecked, awesome album but not as
>satisfying. I don't own Prime Evil, but NOGOOHA isn't bad at all. It's
>very slick.
More is not necessarily better; its a lesson that more electronic artists
should pay attention to.
> Ah, I assumed as much. In that respect, I can see how you can
>appreciate creativity more than the music itself.
Don't get me wrong - I don't forsake solid songwriting in order to bolster the
creative angle of my music, but for example, I've completely stopped using
presets on my synthesizers - every sound that goes into my music has been
created or manipulated so that it is uniquely my own. That's one of the main
lessons I learned from listening to Scar Tissue. :-)
> Not necessarily development, but change, at least. I really think that
>*@%#$ downplayed the guitars and made this album focus on dancey
>electronics. However, I will concede that it's more the end of an era
>than the start of a new one.
That I can agree with, though I hope that the band doesn't fling themselves as
drastically into techno as the "MDFMK" single did - the whole musical vibe of
the single was just too calculated and predictable for my tastes. It's a shame
that Talla 2XLC has relegated himself to such mundane composition.
> And I find his sales to be so disturbing.
Well, "Every Breath You Take" and "Kashmir" were big hits way back when, so why
should Puff Daddy's bastardized versions be any different?
> Actually, this isn't really using my position against me. The
>songwriting is varied, yes, when you look at the catalogue in the larger
>sense. But from album to album, you're right, the vibe I get is nearly
>similar. There may be subtle differences between, say, Money and Xtort,
>but subsequent albums don't change that drastically (Aside from the eras
>thing I was pushing).
Well, I'd have to disagree with you on that last point, as I feel that within
each era, each individual album has its own particular sound. If I wasn't
familiar with any of the albums, I would still be able to tell you that "Ultra"
didn't come from the same release as "Light," which didn't come from the same
release as "Craze." Consequently, I feel that each album is worth picking up
because not only is the songwriting strong, but they are each very individual
works.
> Yeah, I see what you mean. But in this case, the musical thread you're
>referring to is a large part of their work. I'm estimating very largely
>here, but to me about 70% of KMFDM's sound is carried over to the next
>release. At least 50%, anyway. In an album-to-album comparison, I'm also
>looking for the entertainment. If I get the same effect from two
>different albums, there may be no point in owning both.
See my comments above.
> I wish I could add more. I only own five of his major works, but even
>that tells me something about his talent and creativity.
The jump from "Never For Fun" to "No One Gets Out Of Her Alive" is a larger one
than most artists make in an entire career. Also, I think the appeal of Pig
lies not only in Raymond's ability to release groundbreaking work, but to fuse
that experimental flavor with really strong songs!
Once again, another reason why "Nihil" was so popular...
> This brings an interesting thought to mind. Do you suppose that the
>people who hate Xtort because they think it sucks (After Nihil) don't
>own all the KMFDM albums? I think that a die-hard KMFDM fan won't feel
>the same way, and not because they are making excuses but because they
>really understand the band's sound and expect change.
I think you hit the nail on the head. I have met very few people who disliked
"Xtort" who also owned the majority of the band's catalogue. I guess "Xtort"
was just difficult for listeners to understand who couldn't see the entire
progression.
> Jeez, I think I've added nearly every album to my want list now.
Start saving your pennies, or checking your local used bins.
> I'm surprised you mentioned that; we were talking about that the other
>day, even before you came along. Scott's put up a couple reviews in the
>new format, you might want to check that out.
I'll check it out today after I get done writing all this HTML...
> I really couldn't agree more. I had read tons of reviews before I began
>to write them myself, and I used to analyze them just as a fan (Mostly,
>I read reviews of albums I didn't own by bands I already liked). So, I
>tried to get a sense of the music. And I'm betting I'm not the only who
>does that, which is why I try to keep my opinion separate from my
>appreciation of what the band did as is.
It's important to find that equilibrium between evaluating a disc for what it
is, and also injecting some of your personality into the review. And of
course, never be too harsh, or too generous - the best magazines are the ones
that seldom hand out 10's.
> Ah. I'm beginning to see exactly how complex writing reviews can be.
It's a science, and an art, that takes quite a while to perfect.
> Hmm, Scott reviews almost as much as Jester does.. :)
Yeah, but does Scott run a record label, do a radio show, roadie for bands, and
do a TV broadcast? Jester has a lot of work on his hands, and he puts as much
as he can into everything. Consequently, I can't blame him if not every comma
is correct or if he doesn't always run spell check.
> But Jester's stuff isn't just rushed, some of it is really crap. I've
>found many grammatical errors in his reviews, which also tells me that
>he doesn't take the thing too seriously.
I should also mention that Jester doesn't have a regular staff, and does the
vast majority of Sonic-Boom and other projects himself.
mih...@my-dejanews.com
In article <199806252008...@ladder03.news.aol.com>,
gener...@aol.com (GenericCrp) wrote:
>
> For me, I usually give discs six months to a year before I really try to
> "understand" them and appreciate their sound. Otherwise, I probably would
> have sold half my CD collection. And to tell you the truth, I enjoy the discs
> that aren't as "obvious" to the listener, because they make me think rather
> than just listen.
I agree with what you say above. However, I was referring to just liking
something off of an album, not necessarily understanding that entire album.
For example, Sinsation was my first PIG disc. I thought that the new age
ambience was a cop out for an artist capable of producing "Volcano."
(Considering that was the first PIG disc I owned, first time I'd ever heard
of him, I didn't know much.) I liked some of the songs right off, but I
didn't understand them all. Now, about a year later, I have five more
releases of his, and I'm beginning to understand some of the stuff he's
doing. It's coming off as more complex, more emotional - everything I didn't
give it credit for when I first bought it.
> The discs that hit you right off the bat as brilliant a few and far between.
> Out of 700 CD's, 100 cassettes, and 300 records, there are about 20 releases
> total that I connected with from the moment I heard them. That's a damn small
> ratio.
Same here, though not with such large numbers. Even in such [relatively]
simple genres as rap and alternative, which I used to like heavily, I rarely
found discs I immediately liked and understood.
> > Awright! I like Watts.
>
> Don't we all!
Don't get me started. After five months, lots of blood, sweat, tears
[literally], and many cracked jewel cases later, I've come to the conclusion
that my friends are boneheads when it comes to music. They hate PIG.
> > That's good, too. I hate standard coldwave and EBM, since, as you say
> >below, a lot of that stuff is just rehashed. Experimental stuff is
> >goooood.
>
> Its having to review all that standard coldwave, EBM, and electro that has
> forced me into my current listening rut. Bah... I hope I never have to hear
> half the stuff that Metropolis puts out again...
Luckily or unluckily, depending on your point of view, my collection isn't
that big. I still have a lot of stuff to explore. However, since I'm already
bored with what variety I own, and since most of the stuff I haven't heard is
probably all recycled, I'm going to be in really bad shape.
> I'm one step ahead of you... picked up his disc a few months ago along with
> the "Cyberpuncture" compilation in a promotional package, and I was pleased
> with my first listen, but I'm still giving it a few months before I really
> "listen" to it again.
I'm glad to see you have it. I own both discs, although I got Cyberpuncture
as a promo before I bought Useable Frequency Response later. I've gotten some
very good first impressions, which is probably what I will be writing about
on this. Or, at the rate I listen to it (Several spins a day), I should be
either really sick of it or really in sync with it soon.
> If I were to write my reviews only a week after I got the discs, people would
> generally think I was one fickle SOB! As I said earlier, giving music time to
> sink in to your psyche is an essential part of giving an honest review of a
> disc. First impressions are generally not a good measure of quality for
> music, since they barely nick the surface of the music.
Well, the only discs that I can afford to spend a lot of time on are the
ones I buy. Usually, the promos are sent to me before the release date, and
as such I listen to them as much as possible and write what I can so as to
get the reviews out ASAP. However, after thinking about it now, I never
actually asked what my hurry was...
> Well, pop shouldn't be pureile, but in an age of Puff Daddy and his ilk, pop
> no longer has any lasting quality for the listener. The best music is the
> kind that doesn't go stale just because its a decade old or because its no
> longer in the top 40. That's exactly why I'm so amazed by the Wax Trax!
> output - even after 15 years, I can put "Attack Ships On Fire" or "Don't
> Crash" on the turntable, and the music still means something.
I know exactly what you mean. However, I'm thinking of some older bands
from the '70s, like Led Zeppelin ;), who still amaze me.
> He may have more gear, but compared to most artists, his studio setup is still
> relatively limited.
A kick in those artists' pants. I still can't believe how much shit Bill
Leeb used for Millenium (After I stopped laughing, I lost respect for him),
when Raymond's A Stroll in the Pork kicks its ass.
> More is not necessarily better; its a lesson that more electronic artists
> should pay attention to.
Actually, that's a lesson that even fans know. Are you really sure artists
think like that?
> Don't get me wrong - I don't forsake solid songwriting in order to bolster the
> creative angle of my music, but for example, I've completely stopped using
> presets on my synthesizers - every sound that goes into my music has been
> created or manipulated so that it is uniquely my own. That's one of the main
> lessons I learned from listening to Scar Tissue. :-)
>
> That I can agree with, though I hope that the band doesn't fling themselves as
> drastically into techno as the "MDFMK" single did - the whole musical vibe of
> the single was just too calculated and predictable for my tastes. It's a
> shame that Talla 2XLC has relegated himself to such mundane composition.
Actually, I liked every song on the MDFMK single with the exception of DJ
Talla 2XLC's "Megalomaniac" mixes. They were absolutely horrid, but the rest
of the stuff wasn't bad at all. It COULD have been much better, though, and I
also hope that KMFDM takes their time before venturing into those musical
areas.
> > And I find his sales to be so disturbing.
>
> Well, "Every Breath You Take" and "Kashmir" were big hits way back when, so
> why should Puff Daddy's bastardized versions be any different?
Because they're watered down? Really, I only like them for the videos,
which are entertaining ("Come With Me" being the exception, now). He's only
re-presenting them to the masses with new packaging, and all they're doing is
proving that those songs are classics.
> Well, I'd have to disagree with you on that last point, as I feel that within
> each era, each individual album has its own particular sound. If I wasn't
> familiar with any of the albums, I would still be able to tell you that
> "Ultra" didn't come from the same release as "Light," which didn't come from
> the same release as "Craze." Consequently, I feel that each album is worth
> picking up because not only is the songwriting strong, but they are each very
> individual works.
Well, you certainly make a strong case for KMFDM. :) I should be going to
Blockbuster Music soon, so I'll do my best to find copies (Did I mention that
they allow you to open ANY release in the store and listen to it?).
> > I wish I could add more. I only own five of his major works, but even
> >that tells me something about his talent and creativity.
>
> The jump from "Never For Fun" to "No One Gets Out Of Her Alive" is a larger
> one than most artists make in an entire career.
Considering that *is* Watts' entire career, it doesn't say all that much.
How about the leap from Never for Fun to Praise the Lard? Or Praise the Lard
to Swining? Now that's evolution.
> Also, I think the appeal of Pig lies not only in Raymond's ability to release
> groundbreaking work, but to fuse that experimental flavor with really strong
> songs!
>
> Once again, another reason why "Nihil" was so popular...
No argument there.
> > Jeez, I think I've added nearly every album to my want list now.
>
> Start saving your pennies, or checking your local used bins.
Not a bad idea - you'd be surprised how many of my albums I picked up used
at literally rock-bottom prices. I just go to the biggest chains, who have
really poor taste.
> It's important to find that equilibrium between evaluating a disc for what it
> is, and also injecting some of your personality into the review. And of
> course, never be too harsh, or too generous - the best magazines are the ones
> that seldom hand out 10's.
That's a point I figured out relatively early. I hardly gave 'A-'s or 'A's
to people when I first started out. I DID hit a month where I got nearly all
'A'-quality stuff, but for the most part I stay in the 'B' range.
> > Ah. I'm beginning to see exactly how complex writing reviews can be.
>
> It's a science, and an art, that takes quite a while to perfect.
I'm going to keep working on it!
[Comments about Scott/Jester comparison snipped]
Never mind! :)
MIC SPECTRE
i think that KMFDM hit its peak (thus far, it will probabaly peak again)
in 93, 94, 95. i like the music better now. i prfer a more electronic
sound(i do wish the latest album had had more a gressive guitar though,
in places) it was the lyrics that were so awsome. they took a very
political point of view. it seemed to me that the latest release had
less serious lyrics. i like songs without serious lyrics if its just
like one or two songs. sascha's vocals hit an energy low. sascha is my
favorate vocalist in the world, but his vocals on #$%@! just wernt
agressive or deep enough. en esch seemed also less agressive, and much
less out of controll. i think the upcomming album will probabaly be
their best to date. i have a systematic chart. make of it what you
will, but remember the creative process often moves a cycles or patterns
opium wdykd dbyt
uaioe naive money
angst nihil xtort
#&@!% ?????
ok so its like this. my favorate albums all hapen to be the ones in the
middle row wdykd, naive, nihil... who knows its probably just a
coincedence. the way i see it the firsy collum's albums all have one
very important thing in common: they all are introductions and
transitions. to me the second collum represents perfections of a sort.
the third collum represents a sort of blow out. i like all the albums
but the third albums have allways been in my opinion the least creative
(long before i devised this chart)
well some may think such a chart is rediculous. its just a theory i
came up with while bored in ag seminar class.
take care all
MIC
Quahogs
A. Baig wrote in message ...
>Well this is just my opinion but I thought it sucked. It was really bad.
>I don't have it anymore cause I hated it.
I had a friend who got it and he said it sucked, so he never listened to it.
I didn't get it for a long time for this reason, and when I finally did get
it, I was amazed... it's awesome! I kept telling my friend this, and the
other day (a year after I had given up convincing him) he said he got it out
and listened to it the other day and he loves it now.
>There's nothing really
>impressive about it. I think there was one good song off of it but I
>don't remember the name. I got rid of the cd 3 years ago. I think it was
>the second track so if anyone has the cd they can name it.
Track 2 is "Confidence", which was the single (which I don't have yet...
anyone wanna get rid of theirs?).
>Anyways, it's
>different from kmfdm but not too far off.
Actually, I think it's really far from KMFDM. It's a lot more dancy, at
times even more so than "Conquer Your World".
>It has guitars and synths and
>he adds other things that kmfdm might not add (or maybe I just haven't
>heard any) like harmonicas.
True. It also has a lot more German lyrics (which makes sense, seeing as
how 90% of the German KMFDM lyrics are sung by En Esch). It has a lot more
different styles than KMFDM does, too, at least contained within one album.
>Anyways, thats just my vague opinion, maybe
>someone else can be a little more descriptive.
Hey, and I was wondering a couple things about this disc... the song
"Daktari" seems (to me, at least) to somewhat of a nod to Einstuerzende
Neubauten. I noticed at first the line "Ich bin die groesste Sau am
Himmel," which is similar to the E.N. line "Ich bin das letzte Beast am
Himmel." Then it dawned on me that right before that line is a part with a
lot of E.N.-
like percussion: pipes, etc. Any opinions?
Also, I recognize a couple of the names involved with this disc, but I am
unsure about a lot of them. Here are some of the names:
En Esch (duh), Sean Joyce, Sande Satoskar, Rob Hagopian, Mandra Gora, Sanne
Sprenger, Svet Am (duh again), Liisa Vihma, Monika Georg, Bibi Abel, Andre
Meyer, Bernadette, Andrew Weiss (this name sounds familiar -- why?), Dean
Ween (from the band Ween, right?), Blank, Fontana, Christine Siewert
Those are the performers. Also in the writing credits are:
Schulz (coincidentally in all the songs where Svet Am is playing -- imagine
that....) and Bley (in both the songs Mandra Gora is in... same person?)
Also, digital editing by Sascha Konietzko (who?)
Well, I'm done for now...
--Quahogs--
---------------------------------------------------------------
"Just wait until the dead babies start marching... then you
will be eating your words!."
--King Fausto, from "The Forbidden Zone"
Quahogs http://skapunx.ml.org/~k944
k9...@skapunx.ml.org
---------------------------------------------------------------
GenericCrp
>Also, I recognize a couple of the names involved with this disc, but I am
>unsure about a lot of them. Here are some of the names:
Sean Joyce - Pigface collaborator, Wax Trax! employee, all around scenester. I
bought a bunch of Wax Trax! stuff (laminates, etc.) that used to be his from a
guy I know here.
Andrew Weiss - Another Pigface collaborator; see
http://www.invisiblerecords.com/bands/pigface/ for more information.
Dean Ween (from the band Ween, right?) - Yes sir!
Black Fontana - The engineer at MOB Studios in Hamburg, where the majority of
KMFDM's pre-"Angst" output was recorded. He seems to have been a major player
in the early KMFDM sound.
Christine Siewert - One of the first female vocalists for the band; I recall
her being on both the "Money" and "Naive" records - anything else?
Hope that helped...
GenericCrp
> I agree with what you say above. However, I was referring to just liking
>something off of an album, not necessarily understanding that entire album.
>For example, Sinsation was my first PIG disc. I thought that the new age
>ambience was a cop out for an artist capable of producing "Volcano."
>(Considering that was the first PIG disc I owned, first time I'd ever heard
>of him, I didn't know much.) I liked some of the songs right off, but I
>didn't understand them all. Now, about a year later, I have five more
>releases of his, and I'm beginning to understand some of the stuff he's
>doing. It's coming off as more complex, more emotional - everything I didn't
>give it credit for when I first bought it.
Well, for me "understanding" a disc is often synonymous with liking a disc -
Pigface's remix CD "Feels Like Heaven... Sounds Like Shit" being a prime
example. When I first heard that disc in early 1996, I was so unfamiliar with
the band's style that I just didn't "get" the music, and consequently disliked
it. However, when I picked it up again sometime in 1997, I had matured enough
in tastes that my new "understanding" of the disc vastly increased my
enjoyment. Are you following me, as I know that may seem a bit confusing...?
> Same here, though not with such large numbers. Even in such [relatively]
>simple genres as rap and alternative, which I used to like heavily, I rarely
>found discs I immediately liked and understood.
I listened to a lot of alternative and punk myself, and the only record that
ever hit me right off the bat was that Slash Records retrospective of The Germs
- everything else took a lot of getting used to.
> Don't get me started. After five months, lots of blood, sweat, tears
>[literally], and many cracked jewel cases later, I've come to the conclusion
>that my friends are boneheads when it comes to music. They hate PIG.
Which is suprising considering the amount of stylistic similarities Watts'
recent work has shared with KMFDM. Of course, I'm making the assumption that
your friends like KMFDM as well. Do they?
> Luckily or unluckily, depending on your point of view, my collection isn't
>that big. I still have a lot of stuff to explore. However, since I'm already
>bored with what variety I own, and since most of the stuff I haven't heard is
>probably all recycled, I'm going to be in really bad shape.
With the amount of European electro (which I generally find to be an incredibly
stagnant genre) you guys review at GiE, I won't be suprised if you slip into a
huge listening rut relatively quickly. Really, I have no idea what Scott sees
in stuff like Allied Vision; when I heard that disc I was thinking, "Didn't
Zoth Ommog already put this out five years ago?"
> I'm glad to see you have it. I own both discs, although I got Cyberpuncture
>as a promo before I bought Useable Frequency Response later. I've gotten some
>very good first impressions, which is probably what I will be writing about
>on this. Or, at the rate I listen to it (Several spins a day), I should be
>either really sick of it or really in sync with it soon.
Hopefully in sync - the discs that you can burn a hole in without losing
interest are always the ones that go down as classics in your collection.
> Well, the only discs that I can afford to spend a lot of time on are the
>ones I buy. Usually, the promos are sent to me before the release date, and
>as such I listen to them as much as possible and write what I can so as to
>get the reviews out ASAP. However, after thinking about it now, I never
>actually asked what my hurry was...
Generally, I've found that artists would rather have an outstanding review
after an extended (while still reasonable) period of time, rather than an
expedient, yet lukewarm review. Remember, its never too late for them to
revamp the press kit...
> I know exactly what you mean. However, I'm thinking of some older bands
>from the '70s, like Led Zeppelin ;), who still amaze me.
Definitely; even though some of their stuff may have been overplayed on FM,
their music definitely has that true lasting quality.
> A kick in those artists' pants. I still can't believe how much shit Bill
>Leeb used for Millenium (After I stopped laughing, I lost respect for him),
>when Raymond's A Stroll in the Pork kicks its ass.
Exactly my point. Limiting yourself forces you to do more with what you have,
and it separates those who are truly talented from those who rely on machines
to do the work.
> Actually, that's a lesson that even fans know. Are you really sure artists
>think like that?
Well, I spend a lot of time shooting the shit with techies and gearheads, and
the attitude among a lot of those people is that you gotta have has many cool
synths and samplers and sequencers as possible. Now I don't know if this
attitude prevails among those in the electro community, but it might explain
that genre's stagnant and non song-oriented existence.
> Actually, I liked every song on the MDFMK single with the exception of DJ
>Talla 2XLC's "Megalomaniac" mixes. They were absolutely horrid, but the rest
>of the stuff wasn't bad at all. It COULD have been much better, though, and I
>also hope that KMFDM takes their time before venturing into those musical
>areas.
Yeah... Talla's stuff was definitely the worst, although I was dissapointed
with the Skold mixes as well; they had the promise to be classics, but the
anti-climactic nature of his composition ruined the effect (for me, at least).
> Because they're watered down? Really, I only like them for the videos,
>which are entertaining ("Come With Me" being the exception, now). He's only
>re-presenting them to the masses with new packaging, and all they're doing is
>proving that those songs are classics.
Even if you replace Robert Plant's gentle croon with Puffy's slurred rapping,
Page's guitar work is still going to guarantee at least a minor hit. Plus,
think of all the people who have heard "Kashmir," but don't know a damn thing
about the track - they'll probably think "Come With Me" was the original!
> Well, you certainly make a strong case for KMFDM. :)
It comes with being a fan since 1994.
>I should be going
>to
>Blockbuster Music soon, so I'll do my best to find copies (Did I mention that
>they allow you to open ANY release in the store and listen to it?).
If there are any discs you're looking for used, let me know and they'll
probably pop up in the bins here in Chicago at some point.
> Considering that *is* Watts' entire career, it doesn't say all that much.
>How about the leap from Never for Fun to Praise the Lard? Or Praise the Lard
>to Swining? Now that's evolution.
Good point, although I'd say the leap from "The Swining" to "Sinsation" was the
most drastic.
> Not a bad idea - you'd be surprised how many of my albums I picked up used
>at literally rock-bottom prices. I just go to the biggest chains, who have
>really poor taste.
Check out what I said a few paragraphs ago re: used CD's.
> That's a point I figured out relatively early. I hardly gave 'A-'s or 'A's
>to people when I first started out. I DID hit a month where I got nearly all
>'A'-quality stuff, but for the most part I stay in the 'B' range.
I avoid that problem altogether by not assigning numbering or lettering systems
to my critiques; I let the reader make a decision from my description, since
one man's five may be another man's nine.
> I'm going to keep working on it!
See the work of Karen Woods (Raygun) and Jason Pettigrew (Alternative Press)
for some examples of superb music journalism.
>[Comments about Scott/Jester comparison snipped]
What? Too controversial for USENet? I was eager for a reply...
mih...@my-dejanews.com
In article <199806270530...@ladder01.news.aol.com>,
gener...@aol.com (GenericCrp) wrote:
>
> Well, for me "understanding" a disc is often synonymous with liking a disc -
> Pigface's remix CD "Feels Like Heaven... Sounds Like Shit" being a prime
> example. When I first heard that disc in early 1996, I was so unfamiliar with
> the band's style that I just didn't "get" the music, and consequently disliked
> it. However, when I picked it up again sometime in 1997, I had matured enough
> in tastes that my new "understanding" of the disc vastly increased my
> enjoyment. Are you following me, as I know that may seem a bit confusing...?
I'm following you, and I understand completely. I guess it all depends on
your own background, tastes, and the album in question. My initial impression
of an album is based on what I may find enjoyable in the sound structure. For
instance, I bought Skinny Puppy: VIVIsect VI because I liked the good
poppishness of "Testure" and "Who's Laughing Now?" I hated the second half
(Mine's a CD) because of the weirdness. Yet now, I like it and understand it.
And my noise/experimental CDs still fit in with my system. I just buy them
if someone recommends them. Then, when boredom sets in, I listen to them for
the first time, and wow! They're good. Just to clarify, "understand" the way
I'm using it is to picture how all the sounds and noises fit together in one
cohesive structure. That makes the entire thing more than just a song or an
album, into an art. And if this is the same definition you're using, I'd just
like to point out that on the whole I tend to understand the albums I buy
pretty quickly.
> > Same here, though not with such large numbers. Even in such [relatively]
> >simple genres as rap and alternative, which I used to like heavily, I rarely
> >found discs I immediately liked and understood.
>
> I listened to a lot of alternative and punk myself, and the only record that
> ever hit me right off the bat was that Slash Records retrospective of The
> Germs - everything else took a lot of getting used to.
Really? Back then, I was used to simple music. I never took apart an album
to enjoy it as I do in industrial; I just accepted the songs for what they
were. I'm kinda curious to see if some of my albums are actually more than
what I gave them credit for initially - I *may* even listen to them again to
find out! :)
> > Don't get me started. After five months, lots of blood, sweat, tears
> >[literally], and many cracked jewel cases later, I've come to the conclusion
> >that my friends are boneheads when it comes to music. They hate PIG.
>
> Which is suprising considering the amount of stylistic similarities Watts'
> recent work has shared with KMFDM. Of course, I'm making the assumption that
> your friends like KMFDM as well. Do they?
Yeah, I forgot to mention that. Yes, they do. I gave them Nihil and they
loved it. They also liked *@%#$, and thus it's obviously the production
quality and songwriting improvement that you were mentioning. So, I'm very
surprised that they like "Unfit" but think "Blades (Slash Mix)" is pathetic.
I mean, my eyebrows shot UP into the air when I realized that Wrecked didn't
hold a candle to Nihil in their eyes. This depresses me in more ways than
one. I'm surrounded by idiots.
> > Luckily or unluckily, depending on your point of view, my collection isn't
> >that big. I still have a lot of stuff to explore. However, since I'm already
> >bored with what variety I own, and since most of the stuff I haven't heard is
> >probably all recycled, I'm going to be in really bad shape.
>
> With the amount of European electro (which I generally find to be an
> incredibly stagnant genre) you guys review at GiE, I won't be suprised if you
> slip into a huge listening rut relatively quickly. Really, I have no idea
> what Scott sees in stuff like Allied Vision; when I heard that disc I was
> thinking, "Didn't Zoth Ommog already put this out five years ago?"
Heh. Maybe he hasn't heard that stuff. Me, I don't listen to electro all
that much, and most of it is US stuff. If you like very catchy Euro EBM, try
NETZ at <http://members.aol.com/netzdirect/index.html>. I realize I may not be
the best source because I'm not so embedded in electro, but they do have sound
files (Like "Datenautobahn LVM") and I think you'll enjoy them.
> Hopefully in sync - the discs that you can burn a hole in without losing
> interest are always the ones that go down as classics in your collection.
Hmm, I haven't listened to PIG for some time because I overdid it. But I
once listened to SP for an entire week and didn't lose it, so there're
classics for ya. And Testube really is shaping up to be a classic. It's
really good.
> Generally, I've found that artists would rather have an outstanding review
> after an extended (while still reasonable) period of time, rather than an
> expedient, yet lukewarm review. Remember, its never too late for them to
> revamp the press kit...
You said it. Although that might be a little off.. I got the PIG: Wrecked
promo in April 98. :) Incidentally, this was the same day I finally got
desperate and BOUGHT the damn thing. Now I'm stuck with an unopened copy that
no one wants to buy. :(
> Definitely; even though some of their stuff may have been overplayed on FM,
> their music definitely has that true lasting quality.
Hmm, Zep seem to be ignored for the most part here on the radio.
> Exactly my point. Limiting yourself forces you to do more with what you have,
> and it separates those who are truly talented from those who rely on machines
> to do the work.
What's sadder is that those artists with more gear seem to come off as
really talented, and hence FLA sells more than PIG.
> Well, I spend a lot of time shooting the shit with techies and gearheads, and
> the attitude among a lot of those people is that you gotta have has many cool
> synths and samplers and sequencers as possible. Now I don't know if this
> attitude prevails among those in the electro community, but it might explain
> that genre's stagnant and non song-oriented existence.
Well, then, they're either really high or really stupid. It may be one of
those things that you can see the truth in when you're on the outside, but I
don't think anyone who becomes a musician will suddenly believe quantity over
quality.
> Yeah... Talla's stuff was definitely the worst, although I was dissapointed
> with the Skold mixes as well; they had the promise to be classics, but the
> anti-climactic nature of his composition ruined the effect (for me, at least).
It isn't just you, because I agree to some extent. I didn't take the time
to really listen to the original "Anarchy," so the "God & the State" mix
really impressed me with its guitar solos. The "Fusako Mix" wasn't half-bad,
mainly because it took some listens to really get into, and later proved to
be a satisfying song. But now, after hearing the original "Anarchy" many
times over, I've come to the conclusion that the remixes could be better.
> Even if you replace Robert Plant's gentle croon with Puffy's slurred rapping,
> Page's guitar work is still going to guarantee at least a minor hit. Plus,
> think of all the people who have heard "Kashmir," but don't know a damn thing
> about the track - they'll probably think "Come With Me" was the original!
LOL! I remember an argument I had with someone over the chronological order
of Grandmaster Flash's "The Message" and Puff Daddy's "Can't Nobody Hold Me
Down." Truly saddening.
> >I should be going to Blockbuster Music soon, so I'll do my best to find
> >copies (Did I mention that they allow you to open ANY release in the store
> >and listen to it?).
>
> If there are any discs you're looking for used, let me know and they'll
> probably pop up in the bins here in Chicago at some point.
How about anything you recommended, for starters? Since those are recent
additions, no one's going to offer me a trade since I haven't posted anything
recently.
> > Considering that *is* Watts' entire career, it doesn't say all that much.
> >How about the leap from Never for Fun to Praise the Lard? Or Praise the Lard
> >to Swining? Now that's evolution.
>
> Good point, although I'd say the leap from "The Swining" to "Sinsation" was
> the most drastic.
Not when you take the Fountain of Miracles interlude into consideration.
And I haven't heard RR&S, but it might have alluded to Sinsation. Otherwise, I
agree completely. That was a totally startling change.
> > That's a point I figured out relatively early. I hardly gave 'A-'s or 'A's
> >to people when I first started out. I DID hit a month where I got nearly all
> >'A'-quality stuff, but for the most part I stay in the 'B' range.
>
> I avoid that problem altogether by not assigning numbering or lettering
> systems to my critiques; I let the reader make a decision from my description,
> since one man's five may be another man's nine.
Well, I've found that a good description and a good grading system work
well together. If the description is very intriguing, and sounds like some
bands you've heard before, only better, then the grading confirms it.
> > I'm going to keep working on it!
>
> See the work of Karen Woods (Raygun) and Jason Pettigrew (Alternative Press)
> for some examples of superb music journalism.
Will do.
> >[Comments about Scott/Jester comparison snipped]
>
> What? Too controversial for USENet? I was eager for a reply...
Umm, okay. I thought you just wanted to prove your point and let me drop
it. If not, I'll just quote the thing and reply.
-----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==-----
http://www.dejanews.com/rg_mkgrp.xp Create Your Own Free Member Forum
Mark Dee
I love that Cheesy album. It's in my car as I type this. I like it
simply for the fact that it's not like KMFDM's work, and it also has a
kind of worldly sound to it.
"Caw, caw, BANG!!! F**K!!! I'm dead!!!"
--Top Dollar, The Crow
GenericCrp
> I'm following you, and I understand completely. I guess it all depends on
>your own background, tastes, and the album in question. My initial impression
>of an album is based on what I may find enjoyable in the sound structure. For
>instance, I bought Skinny Puppy: VIVIsect VI because I liked the good
>poppishness of "Testure" and "Who's Laughing Now?" I hated the second half
>(Mine's a CD) because of the weirdness. Yet now, I like it and understand it.
> And my noise/experimental CDs still fit in with my system. I just buy them
>if someone recommends them. Then, when boredom sets in, I listen to them for
>the first time, and wow! They're good. Just to clarify, "understand"
the way
>I'm using it is to picture how all the sounds and noises fit together in one
>cohesive structure. That makes the entire thing more than just a song or an
>album, into an art. And if this is the same definition you're using, I'd just
>like to point out that on the whole I tend to understand the albums I buy
>pretty quickly.
I guess for me the "understanding" takes a lot longer to set in, which is
grounded in the fact that I am a very discriminating listener when I first buy
a record. And, since I take a lot of risks with the records I buy (such as
buying artists I've never heard of), I'll often find that a record is "ahead of
my time" musically, and that I'll need to put it away and let my tastes develop
for a few months before I pick it up again. Pounder's "E6" CD on Invisible
Records was a good example of this...
> Really? Back then, I was used to simple music. I never took apart an album
>to enjoy it as I do in industrial; I just accepted the songs for what they
>were. I'm kinda curious to see if some of my albums are actually more than
>what I gave them credit for initially - I *may* even listen to them again to
>find out! :)
Yeah... going back as far as my classic rock roots in grade school, like Queen
and Led Zeppelin, I took that music apart and reassembled it a thousand times
over, which was what developed my interest and appreciation for those little
nuances in sound that most listeners don't even notice. It's probably also why
I gravitated towards industrial - I needed a genre that required me to pay very
close attention to the music.
> Yeah, I forgot to mention that. Yes, they do. I gave them Nihil and they
>loved it. They also liked *@%#$, and thus it's obviously the production
>quality and songwriting improvement that you were mentioning. So, I'm very
>surprised that they like "Unfit" but think "Blades (Slash Mix)" is pathetic.
>I mean, my eyebrows shot UP into the air when I realized that Wrecked didn't
>hold a candle to Nihil in their eyes. This depresses me in more ways than
>one. I'm surrounded by idiots.
Mystifies me as well; either Pig is too raw and unpolished for them, or all
those bombastic classical samples remind them of trips to the symphony they
would rather have not taken. What's their take on "Sinsation," since that is a
lot more similar to "Nihil"?
> Heh. Maybe he hasn't heard that stuff. Me, I don't listen to electro all
>that much, and most of it is US stuff. If you like very catchy Euro EBM, try
>NETZ at <http://members.aol.com/netzdirect/index.html>. I realize I may not
>be
>the best source because I'm not so embedded in electro, but they do have
>sound
>files (Like "Datenautobahn LVM") and I think you'll enjoy them.
If you haven't started listening to electro yet, don't; it will only end up
jading your faith in people's ability to innovate. As for Scott, that boy
needs to get some history under his belt and realize that everything from
Allied Vision to Seven Trees has been rehashed time and time again since the
late 80's by Zoth and its ilk.
> Hmm, I haven't listened to PIG for some time because I overdid it. But I
>once listened to SP for an entire week and didn't lose it, so there're
>classics for ya. And Testube really is shaping up to be a classic. It's
>really good.
There ya go. And to be quite honest with you, some discs just aren't meant for
heavy listening due to their depth or abrasiveness, Pig being a prime example
of this. The new Cubanate and C-Tec discs are like this as well...
> You said it. Although that might be a little off.. I got the PIG: Wrecked
>promo in April 98. :) Incidentally, this was the same day I finally got
>desperate and BOUGHT the damn thing. Now I'm stuck with an unopened copy that
>no one wants to buy. :(
No one? What is this world coming to? And FYI, TVT is only timely when it
comes to servicing major publications and radio. Otherwise, they'll take for
what seems like ages...
> Hmm, Zep seem to be ignored for the most part here on the radio.
Geez man... you listened to your local classic rock station recently? Here
there are more "Get The Led Out" hours than I can count...
> What's sadder is that those artists with more gear seem to come off as
>really talented, and hence FLA sells more than PIG.
I guess it's that techhead appeal... all those synths make some people drool,
y'know.
> Well, then, they're either really high or really stupid.
More like their energies are focused in the wrong place.
>It may be one
>of
>those things that you can see the truth in when you're on the outside, but I
>don't think anyone who becomes a musician will suddenly believe quantity over
>quality.
Like I said, its the difference between real musicians, and people who are more
interested in having a massive analogue synth collection than doing something
creative with it.
> It isn't just you, because I agree to some extent. I didn't take the time
>to really listen to the original "Anarchy," so the "God & the State" mix
>really impressed me with its guitar solos. The "Fusako Mix" wasn't half-bad,
>mainly because it took some listens to really get into, and later proved to
>be a satisfying song. But now, after hearing the original "Anarchy" many
>times over, I've come to the conclusion that the remixes could be better.
The mixes of "Anarchy" particularly the "Fusako Mix," felt like they were
building up to this great climax, which ended up being nonexistent. But with
the exception of his vocal work, I've never been particularly fond of Skold's
KMFDM contributions anyway.
> LOL! I remember an argument I had with someone over the chronological order
>of Grandmaster Flash's "The Message" and Puff Daddy's "Can't Nobody Hold Me
>Down." Truly saddening.
In an argument with one Puffy fan, I told him he oughta check out Flash and
Public Enemy. His response? "Naw man, I'm stickin with my old school shit!"
I laughed so hard I cried!
> How about anything you recommended, for starters? Since those are recent
>additions, no one's going to offer me a trade since I haven't posted anything
>recently.
For starters, what KMFDM/Excessive Force discs have you already purchased?
> Not when you take the Fountain of Miracles interlude into consideration.
>And I haven't heard RR&S, but it might have alluded to Sinsation. Otherwise,
>I
>agree completely. That was a totally startling change.
I haven't heard "Red, Raw, And Sore" either, so I really can't comment.
Speaking of Pig, are you a Foetus fan?
> Well, I've found that a good description and a good grading system work
>well together. If the description is very intriguing, and sounds like some
>bands you've heard before, only better, then the grading confirms it.
My problem with grading systems is that, especially in publications with
multiple reviewers, the grading system isn't standardized. If you have one
particularly generous reviewer, and one reviewer who is more conservative,
everything the conservative guy reviews is going to look like crap when
compared to the generous guy, even if it's actually pretty good! The latest
issue of "Culture Shock" is a prime example of this - you have overly generous
reviewers next to more conservative ones, which really screws up the grading
scale.
>> > I'm going to keep working on it!
>>
>> See the work of Karen Woods (Raygun) and Jason Pettigrew (Alternative
>Press)
>> for some examples of superb music journalism.
>
> Will do.
Although he isn't technically an industrial journalist, Greg Kot of the Chicago
Tribune is also an outstanding writer. You'll find his signature in the back
of the Wax Trax! Black Box.
> Umm, okay. I thought you just wanted to prove your point and let me drop
>it. If not, I'll just quote the thing and reply.
Go for it... I enjoy heated conversation.
Cheers!
Brandt
Generic Productions Corporation: "Where Assimilation Is A Way Of Life"
An online music collective featuring (fearfeedsfear) and mindframe.
Internetmagazine
http://www.generic-productions.net/
E-Mail: bran...@SPAMgeneric-productionsDAMNIT.net
mih...@my-dejanews.com
In article <199806291937...@ladder03.news.aol.com>,
gener...@aol.com (GenericCrp) wrote:
>
> I guess for me the "understanding" takes a lot longer to set in, which is
> grounded in the fact that I am a very discriminating listener when I first buy
> a record. And, since I take a lot of risks with the records I buy (such as
> buying artists I've never heard of), I'll often find that a record is "ahead
> of my time" musically, and that I'll need to put it away and let my tastes
> develop for a few months before I pick it up again. Pounder's "E6" CD on
> Invisible Records was a good example of this...
Ah, that's it. I'm also pretty discriminating, but only because I want to
buy stuff that is good (Reviews, recommendations, sound clips). I don't tend
to experiment that much, except with noise, and so don't have as much of a
problem understanding the discs I buy.
> Yeah... going back as far as my classic rock roots in grade school, like Queen
> and Led Zeppelin, I took that music apart and reassembled it a thousand times
> over, which was what developed my interest and appreciation for those little
> nuances in sound that most listeners don't even notice. It's probably also
> why I gravitated towards industrial - I needed a genre that required me to pay
> very close attention to the music.
The first music I really took apart was PIG. I got Sinsation, and, like I
said before, I thought that the ambience/new age pieces were useless. After I
listened to "Volcano" several thousand times, I realized there were things in
it that I could focus on in different listens, and put them together to
create a nice, cohesive song that I enjoyed. And yeah, that's how I got into
industrial, too, after realizing it was really complex stuff. My earliest
idea of industrial was that it was all sampled, recorded by one-man bands,
with electronic rock that was much more complex than simple rock. I kinda got
that impression from NIN, PIG, and Foetus. How did you get into industrial?
Which bands did you like first, for their complexity?
> Mystifies me as well; either Pig is too raw and unpolished for them, or all
> those bombastic classical samples remind them of trips to the symphony they
> would rather have not taken. What's their take on "Sinsation," since that is
> a lot more similar to "Nihil"?
They found some songs, like "Serial Thriller Killer" and "Hot Hole" to be
acceptable, but "Volcano" (You can tell I love this song) is too horny for
them (It has too many horns, not what you're thinking ;).
> If you haven't started listening to electro yet, don't; it will only end up
> jading your faith in people's ability to innovate.
Actually, even coldwave has shattered that illusion. Which is why I think
that truly excellent industrial discs are few and far between.
> As for Scott, that boy needs to get some history under his belt and realize
> that everything from Allied Vision to Seven Trees has been rehashed time and
> time again since the late 80's by Zoth and its ilk.
But to the newer generation of fans, it's new. And to the older fans, it's
fresher and produced better.
> There ya go. And to be quite honest with you, some discs just aren't meant
> for heavy listening due to their depth or abrasiveness, Pig being a prime
> example of this. The new Cubanate and C-Tec discs are like this as well...
Hmm, that might be a problem. I tend to play discs over and over because I
like them so much, and with PIG I think I could easily overdo it (Much more
than I already have).
> No one? What is this world coming to? And FYI, TVT is only timely when it
> comes to servicing major publications and radio. Otherwise, they'll take for
> what seems like ages...
But then, to them, industrial webzines aren't that big of a deal. And
that's kind of a problem, since industrial tends to have more of a base on the
'net than anywhere else (My local Tower sells only ONE Culture Shock a month.
Guess who?).
> > Hmm, Zep seem to be ignored for the most part here on the radio.
>
> Geez man... you listened to your local classic rock station recently? Here
> there are more "Get The Led Out" hours than I can count...
Actually, our classic rock stations don't focus on Zep; they prefer Kiss
and Black Sabbath.
> I guess it's that techhead appeal... all those synths make some people drool,
> y'know.
Heh. That's funny to think about. Of course, everyone tells me they hate
FLA for their Millenium gear.
> Like I said, its the difference between real musicians, and people who are
> more interested in having a massive analogue synth collection than doing
> something creative with it.
So they're like classic car collectors? They generally want them for show,
but will put them to good use once in a while.
> The mixes of "Anarchy" particularly the "Fusako Mix," felt like they were
> building up to this great climax, which ended up being nonexistent.
Hey, that's exactly how I felt! I'm surprised you feel the same way about
those songs!
> But with the exception of his vocal work, I've never been particularly fond of
> Skold's KMFDM contributions anyway.
You like his vox? I always thought they were kinda cheesy, and could be
done much better (He likes that robotic echo thing, which should be more
exaggerated).
> In an argument with one Puffy fan, I told him he oughta check out Flash and
> Public Enemy. His response? "Naw man, I'm stickin with my old school shit!"
> I laughed so hard I cried!
LOL!
> > How about anything you recommended, for starters? Since those are recent
> >additions, no one's going to offer me a trade since I haven't posted anything
> >recently.
>
> For starters, what KMFDM/Excessive Force discs have you already purchased?
Here are the albums I have lying around somewhere:
Money/Bargeld Single
Light Single
Naïve (Hell to Go)
Nihil
*@%#$
MDFMK Single
KMFDM vs. PIG
Gentle Death
Out of the stuff that you've recommended to me, I need:
What Do You Know, Deutschland?
Don't Blow Your Top
Angst
Split Single
Godlike Single
Vogue Single
Sucks Single
Virus Single
I'm assuming, though, that you can get them relatively cheaply; that
comment you made about local stores charging a lot for KMFDM really scared
me. :) And don't worry too much about these. I've seen most or all of them
all over in local used bins (Except Angst), but didn't buy them because I
didn't think I would need them.
> I haven't heard "Red, Raw, And Sore" either, so I really can't comment.
> Speaking of Pig, are you a Foetus fan?
Yep. But all I owned was Gash, and I didn't like it. I'm planning on buying
Thaw and Nail, though.
> My problem with grading systems is that, especially in publications with
> multiple reviewers, the grading system isn't standardized. If you have one
> particularly generous reviewer, and one reviewer who is more conservative,
> everything the conservative guy reviews is going to look like crap when
> compared to the generous guy, even if it's actually pretty good! The latest
> issue of "Culture Shock" is a prime example of this - you have overly generous
> reviewers next to more conservative ones, which really screws up the grading
> scale.
Yeah, that is a definite problem, but my feeling is that there will always
be grading problems. And so, I base the grade on what I think of it, but in
the review I also try to describe as much of the album as possible so that
the reader can decide.
> Although he isn't technically an industrial journalist, Greg Kot of the
> Chicago Tribune is also an outstanding writer. You'll find his signature in
> the back of the Wax Trax! Black Box.
His signature? I don't understand what you're saying.
> Go for it... I enjoy heated conversation.
Okay, then.
> > Hmm, Scott reviews almost as much as Jester does.. :)
>
> Yeah, but does Scott run a record label, do a radio show, roadie for bands,
> and do a TV broadcast? Jester has a lot of work on his hands, and he puts as
> much as he can into everything. Consequently, I can't blame him if not every
> comma is correct or if he doesn't always run spell check.
No, but unlike Jester, Scott's still in school, and also has his hands
full. He's doing what he can for industrial, the way he can, just like Jester.
> > But Jester's stuff isn't just rushed, some of it is really crap. I've
> >found many grammatical errors in his reviews, which also tells me that
> >he doesn't take the thing too seriously.
>
> I should also mention that Jester doesn't have a regular staff, and does the
> vast majority of Sonic-Boom and other projects himself.
Yeah, but in that case, he really should advertise that he wants a staff to
write reviews. It might even be better if he dropped the reviews completely,
since it isn't fair to the bands or the reader if he doesn't put his full
effort into the work. Sonic Boom has a reputation to uphold, and what little
effort Jester puts into his magazine speaks badly for the scene. It's like
Tommy T with a magazine (And correct me if I'm wrong, but does he write for
Outburn?).
How's that for heated? I just had a fire in my house.
Shimuku
what's so bad about mp3s? he doesn't even want to give you the whole
thing. just something to listen to to see if you want the album or not.