I've got bad news
to...@abcs.com
Ripper, (studio or live) the Live in London CD set is not moving
product in the US.
This is a new low for the band, 3,417 total Soundscans in the US as
of May 16. It was out just over one month, and that's it? By the end
of the summer, it might reach 10,000 sold at this kind of rate. It
could also just make it to 5,000 sold. I hope Steamhammer didn't ship
too many copies. It would be sad to see it in a cut bin in a few
months.
The other sad thing is Judas Priest spent about 4 months touring the
US. From reports I heard, they were playing before a good 2,500 a
night, at least some of the time.
Not that Iron Maiden can brag a lot, but the Eddie's Archive CD box
set (with at least 4 CD's, and a good $60-70 list price) 15,350
The Edward the Great CD has 47,981 scans (US)
And Rock in Rio, 48,878
It's not good when more people where at the show in Rio than what
has bought CD's of it in the US, (250,000 paid fans at the show) Of
course there is a DVD of it as well, but I have no numbers on it or
the Live in London DVD.
Judas Priest probably drew more fans to see that show than what has
bought the CD in the US. Looked to me like the crowd on the DVD could
have been up to 5,000 fans in the arena.
To say Ripper's era in Priest is officially over shouldn't have to
be said.
I can't imagine JP doing another studio album. Not unless Rob
decides to come back. Even then, it's hard to say if anyone would
care.
Tom
CPardua
>Ripper, (studio or live) the Live in London CD set is not moving
>product in the US.
Hey I bought one! :)
It's a bad time for metal, sadly. Found the new Helloween album today hidden
in the rack at Best Buy--didn't even know it was out. No promotion. Seems
like 15 or 20 years ago, metal was promoted, and well. Now everywhere I turn
it's johnny-come-lately hacks who all of a sudden become prolific songwriters
because *one* song got on FM 100 or whatever.
>I can't imagine JP doing another studio album. Not unless Rob
>decides to come back. Even then, it's hard to say if anyone would
>care.
>
I would *like* to see them get their collective shit together, but it's not
likely to happen. Not saying that the Ripper-era stuff is entirely bad--I
quite like about half of Demolition, the occasional track off Jugulator, and I
think the new Live CD is WAY better than the last one, both in terms of
performance and production. It just doesn't seem to smack of "classicity," if
that's even a word (IOW, will it be considered classic in 20 years or simply
forgotten?).
Maybe the reistatement of the Headbanger's Ball will help turn the tide a bit.
Even just a bit.
I'm just so ready for metal to make a huge, hairy, loud, black leather return.
I miss it, I really do.
Chris
to...@abcs.com
(CPardua) wrote:
>>Even with what is probably the best Judas Priest performance with
>>Ripper, (studio or live) the Live in London CD set is not moving
>>product in the US.
>
>Hey I bought one! :)
Me too, but I guess we're way in the minority here.
>It's a bad time for metal, sadly. Found the new Helloween album today hidden
>in the rack at Best Buy--didn't even know it was out. No promotion. Seems
>like 15 or 20 years ago, metal was promoted, and well. Now everywhere I turn
>it's johnny-come-lately hacks who all of a sudden become prolific songwriters
>because *one* song got on FM 100 or whatever.
Helloween hasn't been promoted since the Keeper of the Keys albums.
They probably sell something overseas, but I think I did see some sort
of numbers for one of their newest CD's in the US. It was very bad.
Not even 1000.
>I would *like* to see them get their collective shit together, but it's not
>likely to happen. Not saying that the Ripper-era stuff is entirely bad--I
>quite like about half of Demolition, the occasional track off Jugulator, and I
>think the new Live CD is WAY better than the last one, both in terms of
>performance and production. It just doesn't seem to smack of "classicity," if
>that's even a word (IOW, will it be considered classic in 20 years or simply
>forgotten?).
I think the numbers speak for themselves. It's already forgotten.
>Maybe the reistatement of the Headbanger's Ball will help turn the tide a bit.
>Even just a bit.
Will have to wait to see what happens. Probably they'll give in and
load up on nu-metal like Staind, Godsmack, Korn, Limp Bizkit and so on
and so forth.
>I'm just so ready for metal to make a huge, hairy, loud, black leather return.
>I miss it, I really do.
>
>Chris
Classic metal like Priest and Maiden probably won't make a comeback.
Sure, they'll probably be able to tour and such, but back to Gold or
Platinum US albums? I very well doubt it.
However, I do think a lot of the nu-metal bands have run their
course, and someone's going to want something different. Quoting some
numbers, Staind, last album sold 716,000 copies the first week out,
the new one 221,000. So, they seem to have lost some fans. Couldn't be
because the new album doesn't sound pissed off about anything.
However, why would they be pissed off anymore. Selling a good 5
million US, and who knows what else worldwide, and a big tour probably
made them multi-millionaires. Hard to get pissed off about something
when you check the ATM and the ticket can't print out the total
because it is too high.
I don't think the new Metallica will be any kind of return to old
form either. All the nu-metal fans are buying it. On Amazon the list
of CD's also bought by those who bought Metallica is all nu-metal,
except for that new Led Zeppelin thing. Since they are also going out
on tour with a bunch of those nu-metal bands, instead of taking out
Opeth and Nevermore, don't expect them to be playing stuff like the 4
horsemen and anything released before the black album. If they do, it
will probably be limited to a couple songs.
Tom
Jgbintbass
Alas, around '92 or '93, MTV decided to promote rap music, dance music, and all
kinds of stuff that isn't what I call music... and heavy metal was put out!
Nowadays, the only Priest exposure is from something like Behind the Music on
VH-1 and just viewing that program has me wishing that Rob shouldn't have aired
his dirty laundry (as in a certain "worst-kept secret in heavy metal") like he
did on it.
Instead, both MTV and VH-1 seem more interested in showing off "divas" such
as Mariah Carey and Jennifer Lopez instead of some real music. Even AC/DC
hasn't done well (though Stiff Upper Lip DID go platinum) by releasing two
videos w/ one the title track and the other for "Satellite Blues", with the
only one I ever saw being for SUL.
Rock Hard Ride Free... or should that be Fight for Your Life, Fight for Your
Money?
CPardua
>They probably sell something overseas, but I think I did see some sort
>of numbers for one of their newest CD's in the US. It was very bad.
>Not even 1000.
If you're referring to The Dark Ride, it was originally released in Germany and
Europe back in 2000. I couldn't find a domestic copy until last year--it was
bloody hard to find even then, you couldn't even steal it :)
>Will have to wait to see what happens. Probably they'll give in and
>load up on nu-metal like Staind, Godsmack, Korn, Limp Bizkit and so on
>and so forth.
Probably so, but I don't mind Godsmack so much. The rest I can do without.
> Classic metal like Priest and Maiden probably won't make a comeback.
>Sure, they'll probably be able to tour and such, but back to Gold or
>Platinum US albums? I very well doubt it.
I doubt it, but one can always dream? You'd think with the latest round of
reissues they'd pick up some new fans somewhere along the line, but maybe not.
Chris
Psychosis
interested in live albums anymore. Also since JP put out Live Meltdown not
many are willing to spend money again on another live album. Its too bad too
because I think its the best performance with Ripper on vocals. The
production is a lot better than Live Meltdown and the overall band sound is
tighter. Besides the loyal Priest fans like myself and others here I don't
think Rob coming back would do much for the band. Heavy Metal as we know it
is over and done. Its all about nu metal now.
--
As darkness falls, night unfolds ebon wings
to wrap the world in its dark embrace.
Sad Wings
don't think the guys in Priest even expect to sell much. They know that
they are going to keep playing small venues. It really doesn't matter
much to me. As long as they keep wanting to tour , I'll keep showing up.
I love Tim but you must be honest. When the singer leaves(the premiere
singer of the genre mind you) you can't expect to keep the same level of
success. Combine that with the change in the music scene and the fact
the "Judas Priest" did nothing for 7 years what are you going to get?
You get the vast majority of the pubic forgetting about you.
to...@abcs.com
(CPardua) wrote:
>>Helloween hasn't been promoted since the Keeper of the Keys albums.
>>They probably sell something overseas, but I think I did see some sort
>>of numbers for one of their newest CD's in the US. It was very bad.
>>Not even 1000.
>
>If you're referring to The Dark Ride, it was originally released in Germany and
>Europe back in 2000. I couldn't find a domestic copy until last year--it was
>bloody hard to find even then, you couldn't even steal it :)
I don't remember the title of the thing, but it had a witch on the
cover stirring up a big pot. I know someone who bought it. One of the
very few who did in the US.
>>Will have to wait to see what happens. Probably they'll give in and
>>load up on nu-metal like Staind, Godsmack, Korn, Limp Bizkit and so on
>>and so forth.
>
>Probably so, but I don't mind Godsmack so much. The rest I can do without.
Yeah, but they won't do without them. Any hard-heavy-noisy band that
get's lumped into metal and sells a good number will probably be put
on the ball. I doubt the producers know "metal" like long time fans
know "metal"
Nu-metal is loud and full of anger and attitude, but for the most
part none of it is metal.
>> Classic metal like Priest and Maiden probably won't make a comeback.
>>Sure, they'll probably be able to tour and such, but back to Gold or
>>Platinum US albums? I very well doubt it.
>
>I doubt it, but one can always dream? You'd think with the latest round of
>reissues they'd pick up some new fans somewhere along the line, but maybe not.
>
>Chris
I think the re-issues are mostly being bought by long time fans.
However once the older ones sell out, the only ones you'll be able to
buy are the re-mastered ones (Judas Priest). Unless you can find used
copies somewhere. And it's not too hard to find some here.
As for Staind, mentioned in the previous message, they'd better get
a hit song going soon, the second week they fell to just under 80,000
sold.
Still a lot of other bands would probably kill right now to get
their second week units sold total to 80,000.
In a soft week, Led Zeppelin's new live CD set takes #1 with a total
of 154,000 units sold. I use "new" loosely, it's stuff recorded during
the 70's that is just now being released. The DVD version sold
120,000, which is a new record for music DVD sales. The previous best
debut week was something like 60,000.
DVD movies sell a lot, but I guess music DVD's still have a ways to
go.
I'd thought that music DVD's sold better than that. I know that in a
lot of cases where a CD set and a DVD set are done the DVD can often
be cheaper than the CD is.
I know in the case of the Dream Theater DVD Live Scenes, and the 3
CD set, the DVD is cheaper than the CD set.
Tom
CPardua
>cover stirring up a big pot. I know someone who bought it. One of the
>very few who did in the US.
I was the other one. That was Better Than Raw. Again, damned hard to find.
>In a soft week, Led Zeppelin's new live CD set takes #1 with a total
>of 154,000 units sold. I use "new" loosely, it's stuff recorded during
>the 70's that is just now being released. The DVD version sold
>120,000, which is a new record for music DVD sales.
Yeah, but was it ever worth it. The DVD is fantastic, you should definitely
make the investment if you're into Zep.
BTW, Tom, since this seems to be an ongoing thing between us, thanks for the
heads up on Opeth. Picked up Damnation the other day, and it hasn't left my CD
player yet. Good stuff.
Chris
Catman the Great
> set (with at least 4 CD's, and a good $60-70 list price) 15,350
> The Edward the Great CD has 47,981 scans (US)
> And Rock in Rio, 48,878
I think this speaks volumes. Iron Maiden gave the fans what they wanted
(Bruce at the mike) while Priest are stubbornly moving on with pseudo-JP and
tanking big time. Even Dio can sell 20k-40k per album these days. Someone
should tell these guys that they're not Metallica, and they can't crank out
shitty product that their fans don't want and still sell a million records.
> I can't imagine JP doing another studio album. Not unless Rob
> decides to come back. Even then, it's hard to say if anyone would
> care.
If Priest did a reunion then they'd probably do somewhere in the ballpark of
what Maiden did with Brave New World, etc. Maybe a little less, maybe a
little more, doesn't really matter. They'd certainly be selling more than
4,000 units. At least 20k-50k per album, which is par for the has-been metal
refugee these days. If Iron Maiden releases a followup to BNW it'll probably
sell about 100k in the US.
Metal seems to be finished as a movement in the US. It's been taken as far
as it can go. I can imagine some new era in rock n' roll, which has a basic
sexual appeal that's essentially timeless (people are always going to fuck),
but I don't think any future generations are going to be able to relate to
monsters, epics, fairy tales and stories about the evil Suckulator, no
matter how many times Tim Owens squeals out it's name. Metal's themes of
rebellion, anger, misery, angst, and things generally not particularly
pleasant have already lived on as the whiny shit we know as nu-metal. The
kids today don't want to use fantasy or escapism to combat their "woes,"
they want to shave off their dreadlocks, grow a goatee and proceed to piss
and moan endlessly while banging away at a down-tuned guitar. It's easier.
That's called progress.
With Regards,
Catman the Great
to...@abcs.com
(CPardua) wrote:
>>I don't remember the title of the thing, but it had a witch on the
>>cover stirring up a big pot. I know someone who bought it. One of the
>>very few who did in the US.
>
>I was the other one. That was Better Than Raw. Again, damned hard to find.
Yeah, I don't know where he got it, but he did.
>>In a soft week, Led Zeppelin's new live CD set takes #1 with a total
>>of 154,000 units sold. I use "new" loosely, it's stuff recorded during
>>the 70's that is just now being released. The DVD version sold
>>120,000, which is a new record for music DVD sales.
>
>Yeah, but was it ever worth it. The DVD is fantastic, you should definitely
>make the investment if you're into Zep.
Zeppelin has been ruined by classic rock radio around here. They
have been pumping out several Zeppelin songs, you can name them, they
play them over and over again. Now if they'd draw back and throw on
some of the other songs, then maybe.
I won't deny that this is a good thing, it's probably a very good
thing. Live Zeppelin is sort of hard to come by, official releases at
least. The Song Remains the Same was not as good as I thought it
should be.
>BTW, Tom, since this seems to be an ongoing thing between us, thanks for the
>heads up on Opeth. Picked up Damnation the other day, and it hasn't left my CD
>player yet. Good stuff.
>
>Chris
That makes two extra copies I've gotten people to buy, and maybe
three. It is a bit different than their other stuff, but if you really
like it, I suggest perhaps getting Still Life also. It's about half
clean vocals and death. It's also got some heavier parts. For the most
part Damnation is all clean.
Tom
to...@abcs.com
<Zs...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
> Metal's themes of
>rebellion, anger, misery, angst, and things generally not particularly
>pleasant have already lived on as the whiny shit we know as nu-metal. The
>kids today don't want to use fantasy or escapism to combat their "woes,"
>they want to shave off their dreadlocks, grow a goatee and proceed to piss
>and moan endlessly while banging away at a down-tuned guitar. It's easier.
>That's called progress.
>
>With Regards,
>Catman the Great
The thing is, I doubt that I would really get into a new band doing
all the themes of fantasy and dragon slaying and such that so many of
the old classic metal was.
Anyway, I am not going to totally give up on new music. I just will
be picky about what I get. And if there isn't anything on it I really
like much, I will move on to another CD. Which is what I have always
done anyway. I get something I like a lot and I sort of put in weekly
listens until something shoves it out of the player. (sometimes daily
listens, however, few albums can stand up to constant daily listens.
Tom
TRG
> what Maiden did with Brave New World, etc. Maybe a little less, maybe a
> little more, doesn't really matter. They'd certainly be selling more than
> 4,000 units. At least 20k-50k per album, which is par for the has-been metal
> refugee these days. If Iron Maiden releases a followup to BNW it'll probably
> sell about 100k in the US.
It will be interesting to see if Dance of Death can sell more than BNW did,
which was a little more than 250k. I wouldn't be surprised if it comes close.
> but I don't think any future generations are going to be able to relate to
> monsters, epics, fairy tales and stories about the evil Suckulator, no
> matter how many times Tim Owens squeals out it's name.
You actually listen to the lyrics? I think you overestimate how many people were
emotionally moved by 'Grinder' when they were 18 years old. As long as lyrics
aren't totally stupid, kids won't give a fuck.
CPardua
>thing. Live Zeppelin is sort of hard to come by, official releases at
>least. The Song Remains the Same was not as good as I thought it
>should be.
You're not the only one. Pagey hates it and it remains the only catalog Zep
album that didn't get the remaster treatment back in the early 90's. It's not
bad, but I've got boots that, performance-wise, blow it out of the water.
>It is a bit different than their other stuff, but if you really
>like it, I suggest perhaps getting Still Life also. It's about half
>clean vocals and death.
I heard Blackwater Park awhile back, but I wasn't really into it. Now I may
have to go do some investigating. May get Deliverance next so I can at least
see the two most recent examples of what they can do.
Chris
to...@abcs.com
>> refugee these days. If Iron Maiden releases a followup to BNW it'll probably
>> sell about 100k in the US.
>
>It will be interesting to see if Dance of Death can sell more than BNW did,
>which was a little more than 250k. I wouldn't be surprised if it comes close.
Is that the new title for the Iron Maiden album. How soon will they
be done with it?
>> but I don't think any future generations are going to be able to relate to
>> monsters, epics, fairy tales and stories about the evil Suckulator, no
>> matter how many times Tim Owens squeals out it's name.
>
>You actually listen to the lyrics? I think you overestimate how many people were
>emotionally moved by 'Grinder' when they were 18 years old. As long as lyrics
>aren't totally stupid, kids won't give a fuck.
Lyrical content can make a big difference. For me, if the lyrical
content doesn't do anything for me, the album probably won't get many
spins in the CD player.
Tom
to...@abcs.com
(CPardua) wrote:
>>The Song Remains the Same was not as good as I thought it
>>should be.
>
>You're not the only one. Pagey hates it and it remains the only catalog Zep
>album that didn't get the remaster treatment back in the early 90's. It's not
>bad, but I've got boots that, performance-wise, blow it out of the water.
I imagine that is a common though of Zep fans. However, a lot of
people still bought the video and CD, and once the DVD was released,
people bought it too.
>>It is a bit different than their other stuff, but if you really
>>like it, I suggest perhaps getting Still Life also. It's about half
>>clean vocals and death.
>
>I heard Blackwater Park awhile back, but I wasn't really into it. Now I may
>have to go do some investigating. May get Deliverance next so I can at least
>see the two most recent examples of what they can do.
>
>Chris
Personally, I rate Blackwater Park and Still Life a lot higher than
Deliverance. Deliverance opens with Wreath, which runs 10 minutes to
nowhere. It never really does anything.
Then they go into Deliverance, but I think this song would be better
if they chose to edit it down to about 6 minutes tops.
However, the album does have the song A Fair Judgement, which after
a few listens dominates the album, in my opinion. It's a sort of
clean, reflective song. The short instrumental For Absent Friends is
also nice.
After that the rest of the album isn't bad, but I still think
they've done a lot better end to end than this one. I may be in the
minority here, but that's my opinion.
A short rating of each album
Orchid- this one has a lot of changes all the way through. I think
it's very good overall, however, most of the lyrics are done in a
death metal style that might put off listeners.
Morningrise- A fine album, ended with the steller To Bid You
Farewell. These two albums were issued in the US by Century Media
under it's Century Black imprint. I believe they have let the license
go, and it may be hard to find these at the moment. I am sure that
Opeth will find another label to re-issue the CD's later.
My Arms, Your Hearse- Pretty straightforward heavy album. It has a
bonified classic metal track in When. This song runs heavy for most of
the first 5 minutes, before changing to a clean part, which then
builds back towards heavy. It runs over 9 minutes long.
Also late in the album is the song Credence, a reflective song that
stays clean on the vocals. It's became one of my favorites.
Still Life. This album, before Damnation, had the most clean singing
of all the Opeth albums, it's sort of a concept album, and I think the
concept is good. I have been listening to this album about the most of
all the previous albums before this one, since I got it.
Blackwaterpark. This album is pretty good aswell. It is long, but I
find it to be a pretty good album end to end.
Deliverance- already noted above.
Damnation-This album grows with each listen. All clean sang vocals
through the whole thing. It does sound like older 70's rock in a lot
of places, with some definate Pink Floydisms to it.
Porcupine Tree-In Absentia- Steven Wilson produced the latest three
albums of Opeth, and not mentioning this album would be a mistake. Not
as heavy as most Opeth, it is still remarkable playing throughout the
CD. Songs like The Sound of Muzak ring true to the type of music that
is being done today. Overall, this album sounds like it would fit into
a 70's type of thing. Although great playing should be timeless.
Steven Wilson also added some playing and singing to the Opeth
albums he produced. Porcupine Tree is his band.
Tom
Jgbintbass
>>In a soft week, Led Zeppelin's new live CD set takes #1 with a total
>>of 154,000 units sold. I use "new" loosely, it's stuff recorded during
>>the 70's that is just now being released. The DVD version sold
>>120,000, which is a new record for music DVD sales.
>
>Yeah, but was it ever worth it. The DVD is fantastic, you should definitely
>make the investment if you're into Zep.
BTW, there have been edits to the new DVD and from what I've been hearing, the
Led Zeppelin newsgroup is in an uproar! Anyways, don't take my word for it;
here's a message posted in the AC/DC newsgroup with a link to an analysis of
the edits :
<<Subject: Re: The edited Led Zeppelin shows...
From: Thomas vidv...@linuxmail.org
Date: 6/1/2003 6:33 AM Central Daylight Time
Message-id: <slrnbdjp04.4...@linuxmail.org>
In article <x63Ca.5299$AB1.2...@twister.austin.rr.com>, AgentAlbert wrote:
> I haven't got mine yet(their in the mail). What is the editing that has
> been done?
Read all about it here, every single edit:
http://www.simplyled.net/thegardentapes.html
Also if you have The Song Remains the Same, there big section about that
as well.>>
Rock Hard Ride Free...
CPardua
>people still bought the video and CD, and once the DVD was released,
>people bought it too.
I suspect that most Zep fans who have only heard / seen this album and video
and not heard or seen any other live recordings think it's great. It's not
bad, but like I said, I've got some live Boots that blow this one away.
>Porcupine Tree-In Absentia- Steven Wilson produced the latest three
>albums of Opeth, and not mentioning this album would be a mistake.
Glad to see you've taken a shine to them. If you can find their most recent
three studio albums, Lightbulb Sun, Stupid Dream, or Signify, you can see how
they've gotten to where they are now. The first two, released in 2000 and 1999
respectively, are hard to find because the label's gone under, but they should
be reissued at some point. 1996's Signify has already been reissued and is a
good starting point.
There are some older albums, but you might want to save those for later. If
you don't have an interest in progressive or psychedelic music, they're not for
you. Just stick with the recent ones.
I think PTree feels the same way, because most of their recent setlists reflect
material from 1996 onward, completely bypassing the pre-Signify material.
Chris
TRG
> be done with it?
It's already done. I think its due out in September.
to...@abcs.com
(CPardua) wrote:
>>Porcupine Tree-In Absentia- Steven Wilson produced the latest three
>>albums of Opeth, and not mentioning this album would be a mistake.
>
>Glad to see you've taken a shine to them. If you can find their most recent
>three studio albums, Lightbulb Sun, Stupid Dream, or Signify, you can see how
>they've gotten to where they are now.
I also got one called On the Sunday of Life. It's sort of strange,
but I haven't really listened to it a lot yet. I believe the CD I have
is a re-issue because it is stated that it's a 1997 release.
>The first two, released in 2000 and 1999
>respectively, are hard to find because the label's gone under, but they should
>be reissued at some point. 1996's Signify has already been reissued and is a
>good starting point.
Yeah, that is another reason to hope for a band you like to sell a
good number of CD's. So even if the CD goes out of print, finding a
second hand one later might not be so hard.
>There are some older albums, but you might want to save those for later. If
>you don't have an interest in progressive or psychedelic music, they're not for
>you. Just stick with the recent ones.
>
>I think PTree feels the same way, because most of their recent setlists reflect
>material from 1996 onward, completely bypassing the pre-Signify material.
>
>Chris
That probably happens with most bands. The older stuff, in many
cases, the band has played some of these songs hundreds of times and
they may just want to not play it anymore.
I can imagine Judas Priest might want to stop playing older songs
like Manalishi, Breaking the Law, Living after Midnight and Another
Thing. However, I think anytime they play, a lot of fans will want to
hear these songs.
As for Porcupine Tree, I don't know how attached their fans are to
the older stuff. Some fans, like me, have only recently heard of them.
If I were to see them in concert, I'd probably rather them only play
stuff from the new album. It would be the only stuff I'd really know.
Tom
to...@abcs.com
So it's going to sit for over 3 months? I don't think I like that so
much. If it's done what is the hold up?
Tom
CPardua
>the
>Led Zeppelin newsgroup is in an uproar!
Probably my only complaint is that the footage is incomplete. The Earl's Court
footage from 75 is absolutely sweet, but there's just not enough of it.
I've looked at the garden tapes link before, I'll have to go back and see what
else has been done to it. Doesn't really bother me too much, I'm just happy as
hell to have it and be able to see this stuff.
Chris
CPardua
>but I haven't really listened to it a lot yet. I believe the CD I have
>is a re-issue because it is stated that it's a 1997 release.
Oh yeah, that's a strange one...definitely a reissue from 1991. It's a
collection of stuff that was originally demoed / released privately from about
1988 onward. At least now you can hear an early version of the song from which
I took my screenname :)
>As for Porcupine Tree, I don't know how attached their fans are to
>the older stuff. Some fans, like me, have only recently heard of them.
>If I were to see them in concert, I'd probably rather them only play
>stuff from the new album. It would be the only stuff I'd really know.
It seems 50/50 from what I can tell on the mailing list I'm on. Most of them
have a general love for them, some are bent towards the older stuff, some
towards the newer. I guess it's all a matter of preference.
Possibly the biggest reason PTree have dropped the earlier stuff is to finally
say goodbye to the constant Pink Floyd comparisons which have dogged them for
years--Steven Wilson hates that comparison. It's also probably because since
1996, they started working as a cohesive band unit, as opposed to Steven Wilson
coming to the table with everything completed and in some cases, doing most if
not all of the instrumentation himself.
Good listening,
Chris
TRG
don't want to crowd out sales for the new album. I think they might be
touring twice as well.
to...@abcs.com
(CPardua) wrote:
>>I also got one called On the Sunday of Life.
>Oh yeah, that's a strange one...definitely a reissue from 1991. It's a
>collection of stuff that was originally demoed / released privately from about
>1988 onward. At least now you can hear an early version of the song from which
>I took my screenname :)
Which song?
>
>It seems 50/50 from what I can tell on the mailing list I'm on. Most of them
>have a general love for them, some are bent towards the older stuff, some
>towards the newer. I guess it's all a matter of preference.
Yeah, all I know is I like In Absentia more than the other one. But
with time and listens I may grow to like the older one.
>Possibly the biggest reason PTree have dropped the earlier stuff is to finally
>say goodbye to the constant Pink Floyd comparisons which have dogged them for
>years--Steven Wilson hates that comparison.
Well, occasionally it does sound a little like Pink Floyd, or
something that PF might have done if they went in that direction.
There's a bit of that kind of sound about the Opeth Damnation CD.
Especially the 3rd song on the CD. (Death Whispered a Lullaby, and To
Rid the Disease also)
> It's also probably because since
>1996, they started working as a cohesive band unit, as opposed to Steven Wilson
>coming to the table with everything completed and in some cases, doing most if
>not all of the instrumentation himself.
>
>Good listening,
>
>Chris
One man band things always have a problem when it comes to actually
touring. Do they just hire people to play, or do the make a real band
out of it? I believe there's been mixed results with many of these
types of one man bands. Sometimes you'll have a couple people make the
music and then later try to make a real band later. Again this has
worked out with mixed results.
Tom
to...@abcs.com
>They've already released a Visions of the Beast DVD.. I'm guessing they
>don't want to crowd out sales for the new album. I think they might be
>touring twice as well.
Visions of the Beast DVD? What's on that one?
Tom
CPardua
>>I took my screenname :)
>
> Which song?
Ah...Radioactive Toy, of course!
>Yeah, all I know is I like In Absentia more than the other one. But
>with time and listens I may grow to like the older one.
>
I've had it for years, and it's not yet become a favourite...still liking the
newer stuff more.
>There's a bit of that kind of sound about the Opeth Damnation CD.
>Especially the 3rd song on the CD. (Death Whispered a Lullaby, and To
>Rid the Disease also)
I can't say enough how much I really REALLY like this CD. Am going to
investigate the other things, as soon as cash opens up.
Chris
CPardua
IIRC, it's a video compilation that should cover everything up until just about
now. 1993's From There To Eternity did a good job, this one looks like a
reissue plus videos from the Blaze Bayley era, some Ed Hunter tour stuff, and
maybe some BNW stuff too.
I haven't seen this in the stores yet, just read a blurb about it somewhere--is
it available in the states yet?
Chris
GChampa354
>Court
>footage from 75 is absolutely sweet, but there's just not enough of it.
My thoughts exactly from looking at the box. Maybe Jimmy Page in the future
could go back to the vaults and eventually release the Earls Court concert(s)
on DVD.
CPardua
>could go back to the vaults and eventually release the Earls Court concert(s)
>on DVD.
From what I read in a recent article in ICE magazine and also in the current
Guitar World, some of these tapes were either incomplete to start with or
almost unusable--they had to be baked back to life! So I accept that this may
be the case, but still, I'm selfish and I want the whole thing...errrrrrrrrr.
Chris
to...@abcs.com
(CPardua) wrote:
I follow Iron Maiden pretty closely, but I had never heard of that
DVD. I don't know if it is out now or not (stateside)
I am going to guess not yet.
Tom
to...@abcs.com
(CPardua) wrote:
>>At least now you can hear an early version of the song from which
>>>I took my screenname :)
>>
>> Which song?
>
>Ah...Radioactive Toy, of course!
Ok, I just made the connection.
>>Yeah, all I know is I like In Absentia more than the other one. But
>>with time and listens I may grow to like the older one.
>
>I've had it for years, and it's not yet become a favourite...still liking the
>newer stuff more.
That may be the case. I've got a lot of CD's I bought, liked some or
maybe didn't like, and every now and again I'll pull one out to see if
I can remember why I liked it or not. Or if I still like it today.
There isn't a CD I own that I haven't listened to at least once all
the way through. Even a couple I got real cheap on sale in a cut bin
that it was "REAL" hard to get through.
>>There's a bit of that kind of sound about the Opeth Damnation CD.
>>Especially the 3rd song on the CD. (Death Whispered a Lullaby, and To
>>Rid the Disease also)
>
>I can't say enough how much I really REALLY like this CD. Am going to
>investigate the other things, as soon as cash opens up.
>
>Chris
You see the connection then, the sound of those two songs being sort
of Pink Floydish, right?
Tom
Jgbintbass
I watched the version of "Stairway to Heaven" on DVD 2 of the 2-DVD set and as
I was beginning to chow down on some TexMex, instead of advancing straight to
Stairway, I watched "The Immigrant Song" and I admit that I was impressed...
esp. since I don't believe that I've heard that song before. Only thing that
comes close is the video for Guns N' Roses' "Paradise City".
Plant's ending vocals for Stairway aren't all that great.
Now, if you're looking for a copy and it has been sold out wherever you've
looked, try Price Club/Costco or similar warehouse club as they had plenty of
copies.
Big thanks to the individual who recorded Rob Halford performing with Black
Sabbath for that one show esp. that song "Children of the Sea". Look out!!!
Rock Hard Ride Free...
Unknown
From what I read, the DVD is only available abroad in PAL Region 2
format and they are still working on a NTSC Region 1 version for the
US. Apparently they ran into some tecnical problem, so there is no
release date scheduled for the US as of yet until they get the
technical issue worked out. Meanwhlie, I eagerly await its release...
to...@abcs.com
>> I follow Iron Maiden pretty closely, but I had never heard of that
>>DVD. I don't know if it is out now or not (stateside)
>> I am going to guess not yet.
>>
>>Tom
>
>
>From what I read, the DVD is only available abroad in PAL Region 2
>format and they are still working on a NTSC Region 1 version for the
>US. Apparently they ran into some tecnical problem, so there is no
>release date scheduled for the US as of yet until they get the
>technical issue worked out. Meanwhlie, I eagerly await its release...
Can't they make DVD's all region encoded so they only have to make
one version of the DVD?
Tom
drax
<to...@abcs.com> wrote in message news:3ee65da...@news.abcs.com...
I think it's more of a PAL vs. NTSC Issue, which I don't think I fully
understand. I have a DVD player that is region free, and can be switched to
PAL, but I wonder if that DVD would play correctly.
drax
Stian Mathisen
<to...@abcs.com> wrote in message news:3edfdc8c...@news.abcs.com...
> I don't remember the title of the thing, but it had a witch on the
> cover stirring up a big pot. I know someone who bought it. One of the
> very few who did in the US.
I know that the album before the one you're talking about, The Time Of the
Oath, sold 600-something copies over there. I have no idea how Better than
raw (the one with the witch on the cover) did, though.
Since you're so interested in sales numbers I'll let you know something
about Helloween's sales. Back in '88 when Kai Hansen left the band they
started getting into trouble. their first album without Hansen was not a
success, and sold poorly compared to the Keeper records (which have both
sold 200 00 copies each in USA, and millions worldwide), and on top of that
they had left their record company Noise, which they had grown way too big
for, Noise just couldn't handle all the promotion and stuff that was going
on, for EMI, something which caused a legal battle that the band lost. So
they built up a huge debth to Noise and they had to try and make a
commercially successfull album to make some dough, but their next album,
Chameleon was no big success either, so a few people get fired and a new
singer and drummer is brought in. The band breaks with EMI and signs onto
Castle and releases Master of the Rings, which is a big success, and a sort
of back to the roots kinda thing. I don't know what this sold worldwide, but
I know it didn't sell well in america (none of their albums after Keeper
did, and even those albums weren't exactly huge successes). Anyway, Time of
the Oath follows and sells 600 copies in USA but shitloads everywhere else
(shitloads for a metal band in 1996 that is) and the band finally gets out
of debth to Noise. Better Than Raw follows in 1998 and The Dark Ride in
2000, both albums hardly sell anything in america. Dark Ride is also the
Helloween album that has sold the least world-wide, but I don't know how
many units it has sold.
Anyway, just a little german history for ya, hehe...
--
Stian Mathisen
http://www.metalprovider.com/kaihansen
to...@abcs.com
<stian_m...@c2i.net> wrote:
..
>> I don't remember the title of the thing, but it had a witch on the
>> cover stirring up a big pot. I know someone who bought it. One of the
>> very few who did in the US.
>
>I know that the album before the one you're talking about, The Time Of the
>Oath, sold 600-something copies over there. I have no idea how Better than
>raw (the one with the witch on the cover) did, though.
I don't know either, but I am sure it wasn't enough to make it worth
the bands time to come over here and tour.
Speaking of touring, I did get to see Helloween play live back
during the Keeper of the Keys days. They were pretty good. Not quite
as thrashy as Anthrax and Exodus (they were touring with them), but
still good.
Interesting. I didn't know why they did come back after the Keys
albums with a strong album, that was promoted strongly. Seemed to me
the Keys albums did get some decent promo.
I guess all good things come to an end. I must admit I am not
surprised that they had a lot more success worldwide but nothing to
speak of Stateside (after the Keys albums)
Tom
Stian Mathisen
<to...@abcs.com> wrote in message news:3ee7a76...@news.abcs.com...
> I don't know either, but I am sure it wasn't enough to make it worth
> the bands time to come over here and tour.
> Speaking of touring, I did get to see Helloween play live back
> during the Keeper of the Keys days. They were pretty good. Not quite
> as thrashy as Anthrax and Exodus (they were touring with them), but
> still good.
They're doing an american tour this fall, though. I don't know exactly how
many places they'll play, but I think they'll be playing most parts of the
country.
DC
Meltdown. Why the hell are they doing another live album? It's bullshit.
-DC
to...@abcs.com wrote:
> Even with what is probably the best Judas Priest performance with
> Ripper, (studio or live) the Live in London CD set is not moving
> product in the US.
> This is a new low for the band, 3,417 total Soundscans in the US as
> of May 16. It was out just over one month, and that's it? By the end
> of the summer, it might reach 10,000 sold at this kind of rate. It
> could also just make it to 5,000 sold. I hope Steamhammer didn't ship
> too many copies. It would be sad to see it in a cut bin in a few
> months.
> The other sad thing is Judas Priest spent about 4 months touring the
> US. From reports I heard, they were playing before a good 2,500 a
> night, at least some of the time.
>
> Not that Iron Maiden can brag a lot, but the Eddie's Archive CD box
> set (with at least 4 CD's, and a good $60-70 list price) 15,350
> The Edward the Great CD has 47,981 scans (US)
> And Rock in Rio, 48,878
>
> It's not good when more people where at the show in Rio than what
> has bought CD's of it in the US, (250,000 paid fans at the show) Of
> course there is a DVD of it as well, but I have no numbers on it or
> the Live in London DVD.
> Judas Priest probably drew more fans to see that show than what has
> bought the CD in the US. Looked to me like the crowd on the DVD could
> have been up to 5,000 fans in the arena.
>
> To say Ripper's era in Priest is officially over shouldn't have to
> be said.
> I can't imagine JP doing another studio album. Not unless Rob
> decides to come back. Even then, it's hard to say if anyone would
> care.
>
> Tom
Allan Evans
DC <nu...@void.com> banged this out:
| What did you expect? I'm certainly not buying it. It's a re-hash of
| Live Meltdown. Why the hell are they doing another live album? It's
| bullshit. -DC
You know, I kinda expected that sorta attitude from some of those who were
bagging out the Ripper fronted JP, however I was very surprised that some of
those people still bought the Live in London CD, despite their sometimes
rather outspoken critisicm of JP nowadays.
At least it's refreshing to see somebody stick to their guns rather than
changing their attitude whenever the wind changes direction. ;-)
Psychosis
better than Meltdown and Ripper sounds way better on this one than Meltdown.
I never really liked Meltdown that much anyway.
--
As darkness falls, night unfolds ebon wings
to wrap the world in its dark embrace.
to...@abcs.com
<stian_m...@c2i.net> wrote:
>> Speaking of touring, I did get to see Helloween play live back
>> during the Keeper of the Keys days. They were pretty good. Not quite
>> as thrashy as Anthrax and Exodus (they were touring with them), but
>> still good.
>
>They're doing an american tour this fall, though. I don't know exactly how
>many places they'll play, but I think they'll be playing most parts of the
>country.
>
>http://www.metalprovider.com/kaihansen
That's sort of shocking. If that one CD sold only 600 copies in the
US, I can't imagine they would want to reward the US with concerts.
I'll have to keep an eye open for them.
Tom
to...@abcs.com
>What did you expect? I'm certainly not buying it. It's a re-hash of Live
>Meltdown. Why the hell are they doing another live album? It's bullshit.
>-DC
All I can say is that I think it's a better sounding performance
than what is on '98 Meltdown.
However I can see why a lot of people who bought '98 Meltdown don't
feel like buying this one.
Tom
to...@abcs.com
<SPAMTRAP....@lycos.com> wrote:
>You know, I kinda expected that sorta attitude from some of those who were
>bagging out the Ripper fronted JP, however I was very surprised that some of
>those people still bought the Live in London CD, despite their sometimes
>rather outspoken critisicm of JP nowadays.
I would guess this is directed at me. However I will say that all
along I have been saying that Glenn needs to write better music, and
get a real producer. Maybe allow Ripper to write the lyrics to a
couple of songs.
Whatever was bad about Jugulator and Demolition really can't be laid
at Ripper's feet. Of all the singers I have heard, he is one of the
few who can pretty much sing the Judas Priest classics.
I also said when I heard the DVD, I thought this is the best thing
that they've done with Ripper. If I bought the other stuff, how can I
justify not buying the best thing they've done since Ripper joined the
band?
>At least it's refreshing to see somebody stick to their guns rather than
>changing their attitude whenever the wind changes direction. ;-)
I guess loyalty has no bearing on the music you buy. However bad I
thought that Demolition was. Most of it is that it's 70 minutes long,
but feels like more than 90 when you listen to the whole thing. I have
bought some CD's since then that are far worse overall than this one
is. Going with Atlantic, which did nothing to promote the album, was a
bad idea. I don't want to hear about Atlantic doing promo work for
this album, because if a 20 year fan of a band doesn't even know the
band has been in the studio recording the album, and doesn't learn
about the album being released until about 10 days after it was
released, then someone has dropped the ball.
I got a postcard in the mail from CMC announcing the Jugulator CD a
few weeks before it came out. If CMC could do that, I don't see why
they (Atlantic) couldn't get a mailing list from Judas Priest and do
the same. Barring that, they should have done something to let long
time fans know about the album.
I don't really know how CMC got my address, but they did.
Tom
Allan Evans
to...@abcs.com <to...@abcs.com> banged this out:
| On Fri, 13 Jun 2003 07:21:10 +1000, "Allan Evans"
| <SPAMTRAP....@lycos.com> wrote:
|
|| You know, I kinda expected that sorta attitude from some of those
|| who were bagging out the Ripper fronted JP, however I was very
|| surprised that some of those people still bought the Live in London
|| CD, despite their sometimes rather outspoken critisicm of JP
|| nowadays.
|
| I would guess this is directed at me. However I will say that all
| along I have been saying that Glenn needs to write better music, and
| get a real producer. Maybe allow Ripper to write the lyrics to a
| couple of songs.
Well I didn't have anyone particular in mind, as there are a couple of
people here have mentioned that they have bought Live in London, despite not
being big fans of Ripper era Priest. As it stands, I've read your own
opinions numerous times, and I respect them to a certain degree, however I'm
still a little lost on the idea of purchasing what is essentially just
another "live" album (as oppossed to a new studio album), when you feel so
strongly convicted as to the not so good aspects of Priest's last couple of
albums.
| Whatever was bad about Jugulator and Demolition really can't be laid
| at Ripper's feet. Of all the singers I have heard, he is one of the
| few who can pretty much sing the Judas Priest classics.
But still not as authentically as Halford can.
| I also said when I heard the DVD, I thought this is the best thing
| that they've done with Ripper. If I bought the other stuff, how can I
| justify not buying the best thing they've done since Ripper joined the
| band?
Is that opinion only based on the fact that Live in London mainly contains
more "classic" songs rather than too many recent songs?
|| At least it's refreshing to see somebody stick to their guns rather
|| than changing their attitude whenever the wind changes direction. ;-)
|
| I guess loyalty has no bearing on the music you buy.
I certainly wouldn't go blindly buying everything by every band I have
bought CD's of, just because I consider myself a fan of that particular
band. Admittedly there are a couple of bands I do own everything released
of, but that is for good reason, as those bands have proven to be
consistently good, even live. Then there are those bands who I wouldn't buy
anything new of, because from my own perspective, they may have only
released a couple of good albums, and then for whatever reason changed for
the worst.
ChrisP4046
>bagging out the Ripper fronted JP, however I was very surprised that some of
>those people still bought the Live in London CD, despite their sometimes
>rather outspoken critisicm of JP nowadays.
It's funny - I feel the opposite. I dig the Priest with Ripper. I think that
both Jug and Demolition kick some ass, but I can't listen to any of the live
stuff with Tim. I have the DVD and I find the performances seriously lacking.
It just doesn't sound good to me. At times it looks like Ripper is making fun
of the music with his movements and gestures, making it look like a cover band
more than the real thing. I'll probably pick up the cd if only to round out my
collection.
Stian Mathisen
<to...@abcs.com> wrote in message news:3ee90f34...@news.verizon.net...
> That's sort of shocking. If that one CD sold only 600 copies in the
> US, I can't imagine they would want to reward the US with concerts.
> I'll have to keep an eye open for them.
Yeah, it's weird. I'll let ya know when I find out about the exact dates for
the tour.
Allan Evans
Stian Mathisen <stian_m...@c2i.net> banged this out:
| <to...@abcs.com> wrote in message
| news:3ee90f34...@news.verizon.net...
|| That's sort of shocking. If that one CD sold only 600 copies in the
|| US, I can't imagine they would want to reward the US with concerts.
|| I'll have to keep an eye open for them.
|
| Yeah, it's weird. I'll let ya know when I find out about the exact
| dates for the tour.
When you also consider bands like Blind Guardian, Rage et al. doing tours of
the US, it becomes even weirder. I'm sure they do sell a few albums, but
mainly as they are considered at best to be bands with a "cult" following,
then it makes you wonder why they even bother. If a clued in metal head like
Tom doesn't get to hear much of them, and doesn't even realise that said
bands have a new album out and are touring, then what real hope do any of
these Euro bands have trying to garner interest in the USA.
Stian Mathisen
"Allan Evans" <SPAMTRAP....@lycos.com> wrote in message
news:bcdf5i$ia6d9$1...@ID-149776.news.dfncis.de...
> When you also consider bands like Blind Guardian, Rage et al. doing tours
of
> the US, it becomes even weirder. I'm sure they do sell a few albums, but
> mainly as they are considered at best to be bands with a "cult" following,
> then it makes you wonder why they even bother. If a clued in metal head
like
> Tom doesn't get to hear much of them, and doesn't even realise that said
> bands have a new album out and are touring, then what real hope do any of
> these Euro bands have trying to garner interest in the USA.
BG's US tour was a huge success as far as I know, but I never knew Rage did
a US tour. When did that happen?
Primal Fear also did a US tour together with Halford and some other bands
last month, but they lost shitloads of money when the tour was put to an end
earlier than it was supposed to.
Allan Evans
| news:bcdf5i$ia6d9$1...@ID-149776.news.dfncis.de...
|| When you also consider bands like Blind Guardian, Rage et al. doing
|| tours of the US, it becomes even weirder. I'm sure they do sell a
|| few albums, but mainly as they are considered at best to be bands
|| with a "cult" following, then it makes you wonder why they even
|| bother. If a clued in metal head like Tom doesn't get to hear much
|| of them, and doesn't even realise that said bands have a new album
|| out and are touring, then what real hope do any of these Euro bands
|| have trying to garner interest in the USA.
|
| BG's US tour was a huge success as far as I know, but I never knew
| Rage did a US tour. When did that happen?
I had the Prog Power festival in mind there, however as that is a shared
billing, and the fact it's also a sell-out, then I guess mentioning Rage was
just a moot point really.
As for Blind Guardian, I'm glad they do consider their tour as a success,
because really more people should be into them as they are such a great
metal band.
So as for figures, would you say that if BG had a hundred or so people
showing up at each gig, is that more than considerable for a Euro metal band
at the moment, and considering the rather non-interest in the USA towards
the genre in general?
| Primal Fear also did a US tour together with Halford and some other
| bands last month, but they lost shitloads of money when the tour was
| put to an end earlier than it was supposed to.
They were supporting rather than headlining, which is really a better move
in some instances for bands such as PF, however they still lost money. It's
a pity really, as yet again PF are another fine exponent of the Euro metal
style of music, and they do deserve a larger audience.
to...@abcs.com
<SPAMTRAP....@lycos.com> wrote:
>| I would guess this is directed at me.
>
>Well I didn't have anyone particular in mind, as there are a couple of
>people here have mentioned that they have bought Live in London, despite not
>being big fans of Ripper era Priest. As it stands, I've read your own
>opinions numerous times, and I respect them to a certain degree, however I'm
>still a little lost on the idea of purchasing what is essentially just
>another "live" album (as oppossed to a new studio album), when you feel so
>strongly convicted as to the not so good aspects of Priest's last couple of
>albums.
There's good and bad on the last couple studio albums. Which is to
say it's about average for 80-90% of everything I own. Few albums are
good or great end to end. A lot of it is personal opinion. Some people
like all the songs on some albums that I can't imagine anyone liking
more than a couple.
>| Whatever was bad about Jugulator and Demolition really can't be laid
>| at Ripper's feet. Of all the singers I have heard, he is one of the
>| few who can pretty much sing the Judas Priest classics.
>
>But still not as authentically as Halford can.
True, but Rob is not coming back at this time. He's been out of the
band for over 10 years. I guess they had to do something, or retire. I
don't think they were ready to retire.
>| I also said when I heard the DVD, I thought this is the best thing
>| that they've done with Ripper. If I bought the other stuff, how can I
>| justify not buying the best thing they've done since Ripper joined the
>| band?
>
>Is that opinion only based on the fact that Live in London mainly contains
>more "classic" songs rather than too many recent songs?
Whatever reason you might want to say. However, I think a new song
like One on One works pretty good on this Live in London.
>| I guess loyalty has no bearing on the music you buy.
>
>I certainly wouldn't go blindly buying everything by every band I have
>bought CD's of, just because I consider myself a fan of that particular
>band.
I don't either, but I've stuck with Judas Priest and Iron Maiden
since first hearing them. I'm not ready to give up on them yet.
>Admittedly there are a couple of bands I do own everything released
>of, but that is for good reason, as those bands have proven to be
>consistently good, even live. Then there are those bands who I wouldn't buy
>anything new of, because from my own perspective, they may have only
>released a couple of good albums, and then for whatever reason changed for
>the worst.
Metallica perhaps?
Tom
to...@abcs.com
<stian_m...@c2i.net> wrote:
>> That's sort of shocking. If that one CD sold only 600 copies in the
>> US, I can't imagine they would want to reward the US with concerts.
>> I'll have to keep an eye open for them.
>
>Yeah, it's weird. I'll let ya know when I find out about the exact dates for
>the tour.
>
>Stian Mathisen
>http://www.metalprovider.com/kaihansen
Thanks in advance.
Tom
to...@abcs.com
<SPAMTRAP....@lycos.com> wrote:
>When you also consider bands like Blind Guardian, Rage et al. doing tours of
>the US, it becomes even weirder. I'm sure they do sell a few albums, but
>mainly as they are considered at best to be bands with a "cult" following,
>then it makes you wonder why they even bother. If a clued in metal head like
>Tom doesn't get to hear much of them, and doesn't even realise that said
>bands have a new album out and are touring, then what real hope do any of
>these Euro bands have trying to garner interest in the USA.
It's going to be real hard. Some bands seem to get over here now.
(Ones on Century Media) but never for a long tour it seems.
As for Blind Guardian, I've only heard a song or two from them.
Rage, they used to be on Noise records, (if it's the same band) back
in the 80's or 90's, but seemed to disappear over here since then.
Looking around, I see they have been steady releasing albums.
Tom
to...@abcs.com
<stian_m...@c2i.net> wrote:
>BG's US tour was a huge success as far as I know, but I never knew Rage did
>a US tour. When did that happen?
I remember seeing something saying they were on tour, but how do you
define "huge success"? Did they do a club tour, small arena, outdoor
concerts?
I know that when Judas Priest put out the '98 Meltdown, they also
had a statement in the CD to the effect of "recorded during the hugely
successful Jugulator tour" But what exactly did that mean?
A band can go on a 45-60 date concert tour and sell out all the
shows, and call it a huge success. While another band might go on a
large arena tour, and not sell out any shows, but play before several
times more fans. I guess it's all a matter of degrees. One bands
success is another bands failure.
Some unknown band or mostly unknown band, like say Iced Earth, could
go out and sell, say 50,000 US, Which I believe their best selling
album in the US is close to that, and that would be a huge success.
However a band like Judas Priest, that's nothing worth talking about.
It's all because back in the 80's they probably moved more than that
the first week out, and had albums sell 50,000 plus a week for several
weeks. Same with Iron Maiden.
But then the whole world is a market. Something that doesn't sell in
the US could sell tons overseas.
Maybe some here think Manowar is a total joke of a band, but they've
had a couple albums sell over 200,000 each in Germany recently. While
they probably didn't sell more than 25,000 or 50,000 of any one of
their albums in the US in the last decade.
>Primal Fear also did a US tour together with Halford and some other bands
>last month, but they lost shitloads of money when the tour was put to an end
>earlier than it was supposed to.
>
>Stian Mathisen
>http://www.metalprovider.com/kaihansen
They'll probably never forgive Rob for cancelling that short. From
what I understand Halford was the headline of that.
Tom
fluff
<ale...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>On 13 Jun 2003 02:30:07 GMT, chris...@aol.com (ChrisP4046) wrote:
>
>>It's funny - I feel the opposite. I dig the Priest with Ripper. I think that
>>both Jug and Demolition kick some ass, but I can't listen to any of the live
>>stuff with Tim.
>
>The Halford songs just don't sound right with Tim to me. One thing I
>really don't like is the tuning down issue, and that strikes me as
>unusual for myself. I've played guitar in many cover bands and some of
>them tuned down a half step to help out the singer and I always
>thought it made the guitars sound fatter (it does) but for some reason
>I don't care for it in Priest. I'm not even sure why they do it since
>I don't own Jug and haven't listened to Dem close enough to know if
>it's tuned down - maybe that's why (for continuity's sake). Or maybe
>it's just for the normal reason people do it - to give the singer a
>break.
>
>They never tuned down with Rob.
>Peter
I think (not entirely sure) that Jugulator is in Eb and Demolition is
in D (as in actual D to D tuning, not Drop D). Even then, some songs
have what would usually be Drop D tuning, so Drop C# or Drop C. Also,
Hell Is Home is Eb with drop C# on Live In London and D with Drop C on
Demolition. So tuned up and not down!
I hope that made sense, I'm confusing myself now!
As for Ripper, I like him. I don't like the songwriting on the last
two albums though, apart from a few tracks. He can't scream like Rob,
but I think he's a good in his own right.
Allan Evans
Yeah they have been doing the same as a lot of these Euro bands, cycling
from one label to the next (in fact they are now on Steamhammer label),
steadily releasing albums, even more consistently than some well established
US metal acts. I guess the smaller labels don't mind bands releasing alums
that way, as they usually don't have to promote them as widely, just run a
few ads in some of the underground European metal mags, and leave it at
that.
Also they still sound the same as years ago, so no real surprises there
either.
to...@abcs.com
I think small labels like established bands like Rage. They know the
band isn't likely to have a huge selling album, but will sell a
consistent amount. Most of the small independent record companies can
not handle large selling bands because it will require a lot of promo
work and so on. Back when Metallica was on Megaforce, the label lost
their minds when Metallica spent so much money working on Ride the
Lightning. I believe it was a relief for them when Metallica signed on
to Elektra.
By the way, there was a small release of Kill 'Em All with the
Megaforce imprint. Before the Elektra deal was finalized. First issues
of the Elektra Kill 'Em All had a couple Garage Days songs put on the
end of the CD. Does anyone know if there is a collector factor for
these rare issues? What kind of value the CD might have today? Or
maybe the old vinyl pressings of Kill 'Em all.
Tom
Allan Evans
Actually I just did a search on GEMM, for anyone selling that particular LP,
and only one match came up. It is a copy of the Megaforce LP version of Kill
Em All, and they are only charging $35.00 for it, so I guess there isn't a
huge demand for it. As for the CD, well no results came up, so I guess
nobody's selling it.
Here's the GEMM result link, if you are curious:
http://db5.gemm.com/ddc/search.pl?sid=362585519&key=36969&a_refno=GML486158246
Stian Mathisen
> I had the Prog Power festival in mind there, however as that is a shared
> billing, and the fact it's also a sell-out, then I guess mentioning Rage
was
> just a moot point really.
Ah, okay, I see.
> As for Blind Guardian, I'm glad they do consider their tour as a success,
> because really more people should be into them as they are such a great
> metal band.
>
> So as for figures, would you say that if BG had a hundred or so people
> showing up at each gig, is that more than considerable for a Euro metal
band
> at the moment, and considering the rather non-interest in the USA towards
> the genre in general?
I saw Blind Guardian this last sunday playing for 5000 or so people (might
have been a little more, but probably not less, since it was at a festival
with 15.000 people). Anyway, the entire field in front of the stage they
were playing was packed, and it was a pretty big stage, so to say that there
were 5000-7000 people watching them wouldn't be an exaggeration. And last
year they were the headliners of the Wacken Open Air festival, which has
30.000 visitors. This weekend their headlining their own festival entitled
Blind Guardian Open Air in Germany, so they're pretty popular right now.
I guess that if only 100 people showed up at each gig it would be considered
bad for BG, even in the US. But I believe they had about 500 people or so at
each show, which is about 1/3 of what they attract at each show here in
europe, and that has to be considered great in america.
The problem is that if a european metal band is to make some cash from a US
tour, or at least break even, they have to play for more than 100 people a
night. Kai Hansen of Gamma Ray has often said that they would love to play
in the US, even if they don't make any money doing it, but they have to
break even, and it is very hard to make sure you do that when booking a tour
over there.
Gamma Ray went to canada to do a show after last years prog power and I
believe they played for over a thousand people in Quebec, which was great.
> They were supporting rather than headlining, which is really a better move
> in some instances for bands such as PF, however they still lost money.
It's
> a pity really, as yet again PF are another fine exponent of the Euro metal
> style of music, and they do deserve a larger audience.
Primal Fear really had a great oppurtunity for playing in the US, since
Halford usually attracts quite a lot of people, so breaking even weren't
such a big problem for them.
Stian Mathisen
<to...@abcs.com> wrote in message news:3eeb6d00...@news.verizon.net...
> I remember seeing something saying they were on tour, but how do you
> define "huge success"? Did they do a club tour, small arena, outdoor
> concerts?
I guess they defined "success" here by not losing money on it! It all really
comes down to how hard it is to tour the US, so as long as a band such as BG
can do it without losing money they're happy.
to...@abcs.com
I also did a little searching around. I saw someone offering the CD
for sell at $50, after asking $100.
I don't know how many copies of this they made, but it apparently
was only in the 1000's.
Tom
to...@abcs.com
<stian_m...@c2i.net> wrote:
>I guess they defined "success" here by not losing money on it! It all really
>comes down to how hard it is to tour the US, so as long as a band such as BG
>can do it without losing money they're happy.
>
>Stian Mathisen
>http://www.metalprovider.com/kaihansen
It would be nice if some bands like BG could tour the US and make a
lot of money doing it. I guess that is not a goal that can be reached
at this time.
Tom
<<<>>>
<to...@abcs.com> wrote in message news:3eece253...@news.verizon.net...
If Blind Guardian could tour the US and make a lot of money, it would be a
sign of the apocalypse --- which I'm not looking forward to. I don't know
how many people in the U.S. are into soul-less, vapid, German butt.....I
mean powermetal, with ridiculous operatic vocals, but I suspect there aren't
many. Word has it there are only two right now (Aaron Burrough and Danny
Shiflet). I'm personally not in favor of expanding the Blind Guardian
American fanbase at the present time.
to...@abcs.com
>> It would be nice if some bands like BG could tour the US and make a
>> lot of money doing it. I guess that is not a goal that can be reached
>> at this time.
>
>
>If Blind Guardian could tour the US and make a lot of money, it would be a
>sign of the apocalypse --- which I'm not looking forward to. I don't know
>how many people in the U.S. are into soul-less, vapid, German butt.....I
>mean powermetal, with ridiculous operatic vocals, but I suspect there aren't
>many.
You know, I'm not very much into Blind Guardian, but this was a
little harsh. There might be a bit of truth to the statement, but it
was probably better left unsaid.
>Word has it there are only two right now (Aaron Burrough and Danny
>Shiflet). I'm personally not in favor of expanding the Blind Guardian
>American fanbase at the present time.
I don't think you'll have to worry about that. Since they don't
"fit" into any radio setlists and everyone who works at Mtv doesn't
know who they are, the fanbase will not change much.
I can only say that I have heard one song of theirs for sure, a song
called, the Soulforged. It's on a CD full of other euro-metal bands,
and euro-styled bands. From Primal Fear, Iced Earth, Sentenced,
Helloween, Steel Prophet, Jag Panzer, Savatage, Angel Dust,
Hammerfall, Dream Evil, Onward, and Nocturnal Rites.
I pretty much like all the other bands on this better than BG. But
I'd rather hear this than 99% of the stuff that radio and Mtv shoves
out on a daily basis.
Tom
<<<>>>
<to...@abcs.com> wrote in message news:3eed39c...@news.abcs.com...
> On Sun, 15 Jun 2003 19:23:45 -0400, "<<<>>>" <c_l...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >> It would be nice if some bands like BG could tour the US and make a
> >> lot of money doing it. I guess that is not a goal that can be reached
> >> at this time.
> >
> >
> >If Blind Guardian could tour the US and make a lot of money, it would be
a
> >sign of the apocalypse --- which I'm not looking forward to. I don't
know
> >how many people in the U.S. are into soul-less, vapid, German butt.....I
> >mean powermetal, with ridiculous operatic vocals, but I suspect there
aren't
> >many.
>
> You know, I'm not very much into Blind Guardian, but this was a
> little harsh. There might be a bit of truth to the statement, but it
> was probably better left unsaid.
Listen to "A Night at the Opera" and come back and see me. I have no idea
how grown men could create that......without intending for it to be some
sort of practical joke. The Germans are, and always will be, terminally
goofy.
> I don't think you'll have to worry about that. Since they don't
> "fit" into any radio setlists and everyone who works at Mtv doesn't
> know who they are, the fanbase will not change much.
> I can only say that I have heard one song of theirs for sure, a song
> called, the Soulforged. It's on a CD full of other euro-metal bands,
> and euro-styled bands. From Primal Fear, Iced Earth, Sentenced,
> Helloween, Steel Prophet, Jag Panzer, Savatage, Angel Dust,
> Hammerfall, Dream Evil, Onward, and Nocturnal Rites.
> I pretty much like all the other bands on this better than BG. But
> I'd rather hear this than 99% of the stuff that radio and Mtv shoves
> out on a daily basis.
With the exception of Great Britain (which I really don't consider part of
Europe), that area of the world has done nothing for music since the classic
composers. They have no history of blues, r&b, etc, that would give them
anything approaching groove, depth, or soul. These Euro buttmetal bands
make Manowar look like Marvin Gaye or Al Green. All they do is rehash
Sabbath, Priest, Maiden, and Venom. They're really into precision and
technique.........which is great for cars and really bad for music.
If I were Ruler of the World, I would order troops to Germany and
Scandinavia with strict orders to unplug all the instruments and further
forbid the making of all new music.
Allan Evans
<<<>>> <<<> banged this out:
You know, it's not like the USA is doing much to enhance the world of metal
nowadays anyhow. I mean, nu-metal is just plain and utter crap at the best
of times.
<<<>>>
Well, personally, I think metal is toast. It happens to every genre of
music. There's not much left to do new with jazz, classical, or the blues,
for example. Eventually those genres reached the end of the line and then
began to just rehash the same ol' ideas over and over again. Music is
always at it's most exciting when it's exploring new territory --- when
there is no genre tag to affix to it.
One day techno didn't exist. Then one day it did. Once it came into being
as a recognized musical genre, it instantly had rules to it. How else would
you know it was techno if it didn't follow the steps that makes
techno.....well........techno? It's like trying to be creative with a
coloring book. There's only so much you can do.
Metal has become a thoroughly tired formula. Long hair, fast tempos,
obligatory guitar solos, and themes about honor, bravery, danger, and
aggression crafted to appeal to young males. Nobody follows that tired ass
formula more closely than Europeans. They can't innovate at all.
That said, I think Rage Against the Machine (don't like), Tool (like), Korn
(don't like), and the rap metal movement are FAR more innovative and
original than Euro powermetal and it's offshoots.
I'm not being anti-European. We make terrible cars. They make terrible
music.
to...@abcs.com
>Listen to "A Night at the Opera" and come back and see me. I have no idea
>how grown men could create that......without intending for it to be some
>sort of practical joke. The Germans are, and always will be, terminally
>goofy.
I believe the song I've heard is from that album. Like I said, I am
not that much into that band.
>With the exception of Great Britain (which I really don't consider part of
>Europe), that area of the world has done nothing for music since the classic
>composers. They have no history of blues, r&b, etc, that would give them
>anything approaching groove, depth, or soul.
Yeah, I would agree that you would want more than technique.
However, having bands that do know the technique would be nice. Some
of the nu-metal bands don't sound like they know anything other than
muted e-string and power chords.
> These Euro buttmetal bands
>make Manowar look like Marvin Gaye or Al Green. All they do is rehash
>Sabbath, Priest, Maiden, and Venom. They're really into precision and
>technique.........which is great for cars and really bad for music.
Name me some bands I should avoid other than Blind Guardian.
>If I were Ruler of the World, I would order troops to Germany and
>Scandinavia with strict orders to unplug all the instruments and further
>forbid the making of all new music.
Interesting idea, but I don't think it's an option.
Tom
to...@abcs.com
>Metal has become a thoroughly tired formula. Long hair, fast tempos,
>obligatory guitar solos, and themes about honor, bravery, danger, and
>aggression crafted to appeal to young males. Nobody follows that tired ass
>formula more closely than Europeans. They can't innovate at all.
>
>That said, I think Rage Against the Machine (don't like), Tool (like), Korn
>(don't like), and the rap metal movement are FAR more innovative and
>original than Euro powermetal and it's offshoots.
I guess you'd have nothing to do with a band like Opeth then.
>I'm not being anti-European. We make terrible cars. They make terrible
>music.
We also make a lot of terrible music. Check some of the top 200
albums out. You'll hear a lot of soulless crap there as well.
Tom
<<<>>>
<to...@abcs.com> wrote in message news:3eee74e...@news.verizon.net...
> On Mon, 16 Jun 2003 00:10:59 -0400, "<<<>>>" <c_l...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >Listen to "A Night at the Opera" and come back and see me. I have no
idea
> >how grown men could create that......without intending for it to be some
> >sort of practical joke. The Germans are, and always will be, terminally
> >goofy.
>
> I believe the song I've heard is from that album. Like I said, I am
> not that much into that band.
Seriously, they're just plain ol' goofy. It sounds like a practical joke or
something.
>
> >With the exception of Great Britain (which I really don't consider part
of
> >Europe), that area of the world has done nothing for music since the
classic
> >composers. They have no history of blues, r&b, etc, that would give them
> >anything approaching groove, depth, or soul.
>
> Yeah, I would agree that you would want more than technique.
> However, having bands that do know the technique would be nice. Some
> of the nu-metal bands don't sound like they know anything other than
> muted e-string and power chords.
That, per se, doesn't bother me. The Ramones and the Sex Pistols made some
GREAT songs without much technique. Same with AC/DC. I listen to music for
pleasure, not to analyze technique, complexity, and physical prowess.
Technique, IMO, ruins rock music.
>
> > These Euro buttmetal bands
> >make Manowar look like Marvin Gaye or Al Green. All they do is rehash
> >Sabbath, Priest, Maiden, and Venom. They're really into precision and
> >technique.........which is great for cars and really bad for music.
>
> Name me some bands I should avoid other than Blind Guardian.
Iced Earth (who oddly enough aren't European......they just copy the Euro
powermetal sound), Grave Digger, In Flames, Helloween, Gamma Ray, and bunch
of other German and Scandinavian bands.
>
> >If I were Ruler of the World, I would order troops to Germany and
> >Scandinavia with strict orders to unplug all the instruments and further
> >forbid the making of all new music.
>
> Interesting idea, but I don't think it's an option.
I have a dream.
Allan Evans
<<<>>> <<<> banged this out:
<snip>
|| You know, it's not like the USA is doing much to enhance the world
|| of metal nowadays anyhow. I mean, nu-metal is just plain and utter
|| crap at the best of times.
|
|
| Well, personally, I think metal is toast. It happens to every genre of
| music. There's not much left to do new with jazz, classical, or the
| blues, for example. Eventually those genres reached the end of the
| line and then began to just rehash the same ol' ideas over and over
| again. Music is always at it's most exciting when it's exploring new
| territory --- when there is no genre tag to affix to it.
You know, I must congratulate you as you are exactly what MTV and all these
record company execs are after: somebody who easily gets bored with existing
music, and is always after something new.
| One day techno didn't exist. Then one day it did. Once it came into
| being as a recognized musical genre, it instantly had rules to it.
| How else would you know it was techno if it didn't follow the steps
| that makes techno.....well........techno? It's like trying to be
| creative with a coloring book. There's only so much you can do.
Well techno is techno, and it hasn't changed much at all, as it is just
repetitive synth beats, and not much musical talent behind it.
| Metal has become a thoroughly tired formula. Long hair, fast tempos,
| obligatory guitar solos, and themes about honor, bravery, danger, and
| aggression crafted to appeal to young males. Nobody follows that
| tired ass formula more closely than Europeans. They can't innovate
| at all.
I hate to say it, but not everybody feels that way. I personally still
admire the technical ability of these guitar players even after all these
years, and I don't think I could ever grow sick of it. A lot more thought
goes into music being played that way as opposed to nu-metal, where it's all
about downtuning the guitar, and in most instances, no technical solos
whatsoever.
| That said, I think Rage Against the Machine (don't like), Tool
| (like), Korn (don't like), and the rap metal movement are FAR more
| innovative and original than Euro powermetal and it's offshoots.
Sorry, I don't think so. Nu-metal and rapcore lack soul or substance. It
seems nowadays any brain dead 17yr old is picking up a guitar and downtuning
it, playing the same chords over and over, and writing lyrics which are
obssessed with whinging and whining about how small their penis is, or how
they got f*cked up the ass when they were younger by some imaginary family
member. If you can relate to lyrics like those, then more power to you ;-)
<<<>>>
<to...@abcs.com> wrote in message news:3eee761...@news.verizon.net...
> On Mon, 16 Jun 2003 17:22:05 -0400, "<<<>>>" <c_l...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >Metal has become a thoroughly tired formula. Long hair, fast tempos,
> >obligatory guitar solos, and themes about honor, bravery, danger, and
> >aggression crafted to appeal to young males. Nobody follows that tired
ass
> >formula more closely than Europeans. They can't innovate at all.
> >
> >That said, I think Rage Against the Machine (don't like), Tool (like),
Korn
> >(don't like), and the rap metal movement are FAR more innovative and
> >original than Euro powermetal and it's offshoots.
>
> I guess you'd have nothing to do with a band like Opeth then.
Nah. They do nothing for me. I'll stick with Nugent, AC/DC, old Aerosmith,
Priest, Maiden, and Sabbath.
>
> >I'm not being anti-European. We make terrible cars. They make terrible
> >music.
>
> We also make a lot of terrible music. Check some of the top 200
> albums out. You'll hear a lot of soulless crap there as well.
Well, we may make some terrible music, but I dare say it's far more creative
than what's coming out of Europe. Europe, IMO, has just become musically
stagnant for whatever reason. Rap/hip hop, R&B, rock n roll, jazz, country,
bluegrass, ad nauseum, are all American inventions (and mostly southern
American inventions at that). The bulk of what the masses buy the world
over can trace it's lineage to America. Now, true, a lot of it is shit I
wouldn't listen to, but the globe certainly seems to disagree with me.
Britain has contributed mightily to modern music (though it borrowed heavily
from American rock and r&b), but no one else in Europe has.
That said, we have our share of problems, believe me. However, musical
un-creativity isn't one of them. I'm not touting American superiority. I'm
merely stating the obvious. Like I said, we make terrible cars. Europe
makes great cars. I'd agree to stop making cars if they'd agree to stop
making music (especially buttmetal).
<<<>>>
> In news:bclcac$k0ie9$1...@ID-139729.news.dfncis.de,
> You know, I must congratulate you as you are exactly what MTV and all
these
> record company execs are after: somebody who easily gets bored with
existing
> music, and is always after something new.
Likewise, I must congratulate you as you are exactly what Germany and
Scandinavia are after: somebody who is after something old (ie, played-out
European powermetal that does nothing but rehash the same worn territory of
it's predecessors).
> Well techno is techno, and it hasn't changed much at all, as it is just
> repetitive synth beats, and not much musical talent behind it.
....and European powermetal reinvented the wheel or something?
> I hate to say it, but not everybody feels that way. I personally still
> admire the technical ability of these guitar players even after all these
> years, and I don't think I could ever grow sick of it. A lot more thought
> goes into music being played that way as opposed to nu-metal, where it's
all
> about downtuning the guitar, and in most instances, no technical solos
> whatsoever.
Well, that explains it. I need "technical solos" like I need to listen to
Dream Theater 24/7. We apparently listen to music for entirely different
reasons. I have no desire to listen to pretentious guitar-wanking German
guys try to dazzle me with their physical dexterity. I don't look for
intelligent lyrics. If you need to be intellectually stimulated by heavy
metal, you need to go to your local library. They actually have books in
there written by people who went to college.
> Sorry, I don't think so. Nu-metal and rapcore lack soul or substance. It
> seems nowadays any brain dead 17yr old is picking up a guitar and
downtuning
> it, playing the same chords over and over, and writing lyrics which are
> obssessed with whinging and whining about how small their penis is, or how
> they got f*cked up the ass when they were younger by some imaginary family
> member. If you can relate to lyrics like those, then more power to you ;-)
I'm not a big fan of ANY new metal.....but at least rap metal and it's ilk
are doing something different. European powermetal is doing Priest and
Maiden over and over again. At least these kids are trying to fuse
different types of music and do something new with it. Powermetal is just
so void of innovation it makes my brain hurt.
Stian Mathisen
"<<<>>>" <c_l...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:bco3of$l4e7e$1...@ID-139729.news.dfncis.de...
> Likewise, I must congratulate you as you are exactly what Germany and
> Scandinavia are after: somebody who is after something old (ie, played-out
> European powermetal that does nothing but rehash the same worn territory
of
> it's predecessors).
I really don't understand why you get so worked up about this shit though.
It's not as if power metal is on the radio all the time or anything like
that, it doesn't exactly haunt you in everyday life. If you don't wanna
listen to european metal you can easily not do it.
Where have you gained all this "knowledge" about european metal anyway, when
you obviously hate it so much? I can't stand gangsta rap (or any oher kind
of rap for that matter), but then again I NEVER listen to it, and I couldn't
name you any groups/artists that fits under that genre, beacuse I don't GIVE
A FUCKING SHIT ABOUT IT! But I don't go online and post about how much I
hate it, since obviously there are people that likes that kind of "music" as
well.
<<<>>>
"Stian Mathisen" <stian_m...@c2i.net> wrote in message
news:xTMHa.1202$BD3.9...@juliett.dax.net...
>
> "<<<>>>" <c_l...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:bco3of$l4e7e$1...@ID-139729.news.dfncis.de...
> > Likewise, I must congratulate you as you are exactly what Germany and
> > Scandinavia are after: somebody who is after something old (ie,
played-out
> > European powermetal that does nothing but rehash the same worn territory
> of
> > it's predecessors).
>
> I really don't understand why you get so worked up about this shit though.
> It's not as if power metal is on the radio all the time or anything like
> that, it doesn't exactly haunt you in everyday life. If you don't wanna
> listen to european metal you can easily not do it.
I easily don't.
>
> Where have you gained all this "knowledge" about european metal anyway,
when
> you obviously hate it so much? I can't stand gangsta rap (or any oher kind
> of rap for that matter), but then again I NEVER listen to it, and I
couldn't
> name you any groups/artists that fits under that genre, beacuse I don't
GIVE
> A FUCKING SHIT ABOUT IT! But I don't go online and post about how much I
> hate it, since obviously there are people that likes that kind of "music"
as
> well.
It all started with a goof on Blind Guardian. If you haven't figured out
why it's funny to goof on powermetal, well, you're probably a powermetal
fan. One look at the last few weeks of posts in the Maiden NG shows exactly
why it's so entertaining.
fluff
>On Mon, 16 Jun 2003 00:10:59 -0400, "<<<>>>" <c_l...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>>Listen to "A Night at the Opera" and come back and see me. I have no idea
>>how grown men could create that......without intending for it to be some
>>sort of practical joke. The Germans are, and always will be, terminally
>>goofy.
>
> I believe the song I've heard is from that album. Like I said, I am
>not that much into that band.
A Night At The Opera is not exactly their greatest album. Try
Nightfall or Imaginations From The Other Side. A lot heavier and a
lot less of this symphony and choir stuff which kind of ruins the
music for me.
>>With the exception of Great Britain (which I really don't consider part of
>>Europe), that area of the world has done nothing for music since the classic
>>composers. They have no history of blues, r&b, etc, that would give them
>>anything approaching groove, depth, or soul.
>
> Yeah, I would agree that you would want more than technique.
>However, having bands that do know the technique would be nice. Some
>of the nu-metal bands don't sound like they know anything other than
>muted e-string and power chords.
I don't like nu-metal, but I have come to appreciate that everyone
likes different music, and it has it's own audience, even if it
doesn't include me.
>> These Euro buttmetal bands
>>make Manowar look like Marvin Gaye or Al Green. All they do is rehash
>>Sabbath, Priest, Maiden, and Venom. They're really into precision and
>>technique.........which is great for cars and really bad for music.
>
> Name me some bands I should avoid other than Blind Guardian.
Depends. Some power metal goes for the heavy Judas Priest kind of
thing, such as Helloween, Gamma Ray, Primal Fear, Edguy. Some add in
keyboards and go for a more Rainbow influenced sound such as
Dragonforce, Stratovarius, Sonata Arctica. Then there are the ones
that I haven't got a clue what influenced them or where they came
from, like Rhapsody and Luca Turilli, which saturates the music with
orchestral stuff much like the last Blind Guardian album (I'm not a
fan of this style, I think some of the songs could be excellent if
they did away with the whole orchestra thing).
Godless Fur Trapper
wrote:
>Dragonforce,
<Cough, cough> Bwhaaaaaaaaaaaa haaaaaaaaaa haaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!!!!!!!!
> Sonata Arctica.
<coughing again, grabbing own throat> OHHHHHHHHHH
GODDDDDDDDDDDD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I'm sorry, I know this is a serious thread, I'm just half drunk. And
those names...of bands I will never hear....are just toooooo fucking
much. Any motherfucker who thinks the utilization of dragons in
names, themes, or conversation is anything other than GOOFY, is bound
for church burning and Scandanavian penal colonies.
Then there are the ones
>that I haven't got a clue what influenced them or where they came
>from, like Rhapsody and Luca Turilli, which saturates the music with
>orchestral stuff much like the last Blind Guardian album (I'm not a
>fan of this style, I think some of the songs could be excellent if
>they did away with the whole orchestra thing).
Beaver pelts and brand new cars.
Oak tree you're in my way....
to...@abcs.com
>> I guess you'd have nothing to do with a band like Opeth then.
>
>Nah. They do nothing for me. I'll stick with Nugent, AC/DC, old Aerosmith,
>Priest, Maiden, and Sabbath.
I like all that stuff as well, and it's lead me to listening to
Opeth recently.
>> We also make a lot of terrible music. Check some of the top 200
>> albums out. You'll hear a lot of soulless crap there as well.
>Well, we may make some terrible music, but I dare say it's far more creative
>than what's coming out of Europe. Europe, IMO, has just become musically
>stagnant for whatever reason. Rap/hip hop, R&B, rock n roll, jazz, country,
>bluegrass, ad nauseum, are all American inventions (and mostly southern
>American inventions at that). The bulk of what the masses buy the world
>over can trace it's lineage to America. Now, true, a lot of it is shit I
>wouldn't listen to, but the globe certainly seems to disagree with me.
>Britain has contributed mightily to modern music (though it borrowed heavily
>from American rock and r&b), but no one else in Europe has.
You say you like Priest, Maiden and Sabbath, I wonder if you might
like a band like Accept (Germans), or maybe some of the Scorpions
(also German)
>That said, we have our share of problems, believe me. However, musical
>un-creativity isn't one of them. I'm not touting American superiority. I'm
>merely stating the obvious. Like I said, we make terrible cars. Europe
>makes great cars. I'd agree to stop making cars if they'd agree to stop
>making music (especially buttmetal).
Buttmetal? How about a list of 10 or so bands that you'd call
buttmetal?
Just so we know what to avoid. Or at least we can get an idea of
where you are coming from.
Tom
to...@abcs.com
>That, per se, doesn't bother me. The Ramones and the Sex Pistols made some
>GREAT songs without much technique. Same with AC/DC. I listen to music for
>pleasure, not to analyze technique, complexity, and physical prowess.
>Technique, IMO, ruins rock music.
Yeah, but for a long time metal and rock music was about showing off
stuff you could do on guitar-drums, and how much abuse you could put
to your vocal chords.
>Iced Earth (who oddly enough aren't European......they just copy the Euro
>powermetal sound), Grave Digger, In Flames, Helloween, Gamma Ray, and bunch
>of other German and Scandinavian bands.
This gives me an idea of where you are coming from. Care to list
another 5 or more?
A couple of these I haven't really heard.
Grave Digger? Are they a death metal band? Gamma Ray, never really
heard them.
Helloween I have heard.
In Flames, I just recently heard. Sort of so so. A couple songs I
like some, but the extreme voice doesn't do much for me, and the clean
singing is not very good. Ok for metal though, because some of the
bands you listed up there have had some pretty horrible sounding
vocals. (Ramones-Sex Pistols and AC/DC)
Iced Earth, I am not going to get into a debate with you on this
band. They are going against the grain of all that is current with
their sort of classic metal sound. You may call them Euro-powermetal
sound, but I think they sound more like classic metal with bits of
thrash metal thrown in.
Tom
to...@abcs.com
<SPAMTRAP....@lycos.com> wrote:
>I hate to say it, but not everybody feels that way. I personally still
>admire the technical ability of these guitar players even after all these
>years, and I don't think I could ever grow sick of it. A lot more thought
>goes into music being played that way as opposed to nu-metal, where it's all
>about downtuning the guitar, and in most instances, no technical solos
>whatsoever.
What solos? A lot of the nu-metal bands don't even attempt solos.
>| That said, I think Rage Against the Machine (don't like), Tool
>| (like), Korn (don't like), and the rap metal movement are FAR more
>| innovative and original than Euro powermetal and it's offshoots.
>
>Sorry, I don't think so. Nu-metal and rapcore lack soul or substance.
Ironic how rap lacks soul isn't it.
Tom
to...@abcs.com
>I'm not a big fan of ANY new metal.....but at least rap metal and it's ilk
>are doing something different. European powermetal is doing Priest and
>Maiden over and over again. At least these kids are trying to fuse
>different types of music and do something new with it. Powermetal is just
>so void of innovation it makes my brain hurt.
If you're not a fan of metal, why bother reading a Judas Priest
newsgroup?
I don't spend all my time on the Madonna newsgroup talking about how
devoid of anything worth listening to that she is.
Or the Britteny Spears-Christina Ag- and so on.
Tom
to...@abcs.com
wrote:
>which saturates the music with
>orchestral stuff much like the last Blind Guardian album (I'm not a
>fan of this style, I think some of the songs could be excellent if
>they did away with the whole orchestra thing).
That might well be. So many people hate classical music and opera. A
lot of people hate metal because it's too loud. So mixing the two
probably limits the fan base quite a bit.
Tom
Allan Evans
| <SPAMTRAP....@lycos.com> wrote:
|
|| I hate to say it, but not everybody feels that way. I personally
|| still admire the technical ability of these guitar players even
|| after all these years, and I don't think I could ever grow sick of
|| it. A lot more thought goes into music being played that way as
|| opposed to nu-metal, where it's all about downtuning the guitar, and
|| in most instances, no technical solos whatsoever.
|
| What solos? A lot of the nu-metal bands don't even attempt solos.
Well that's the message I was conveying. <<<>>> feels that regardless of the
fact that the rapcore/malcore/nu-metal bands do not do solos or play the
guitar in any meaningful way, he still believes they are more "innovative"
than say a band such as Gamma Ray or Helloween. I'm not in total
disagreeance that bands like them aren't exactly breaking new ground,
however I certainly do not view any of the current nu-metal as being
anything other than pandering to the overpayed MTV and record company execs
who are just after the "next big thing" to make a cool million or so,
regardless of the lack of talent.
||| That said, I think Rage Against the Machine (don't like), Tool
||| (like), Korn (don't like), and the rap metal movement are FAR more
||| innovative and original than Euro powermetal and it's offshoots.
||
|| Sorry, I don't think so. Nu-metal and rapcore lack soul or substance.
|
| Ironic how rap lacks soul isn't it.
Yep, it sure does. Lyrically repetitive and toneless monotony is the better
way of looking at rap. Mind you, I didn't mind that Run-DMC cover of that
Aerosmith song, which was done way back in the eighties, you know that
fusion of rap with metal. It did sound original way back then...
Allan Evans
|
||| I guess you'd have nothing to do with a band like Opeth then.
||
|| Nah. They do nothing for me. I'll stick with Nugent, AC/DC, old
|| Aerosmith, Priest, Maiden, and Sabbath.
|
| I like all that stuff as well, and it's lead me to listening to
| Opeth recently.
You know, I started off years ago listening to those same old rockers
mentioned above, but I certainly wouldn't hedge all my bets by just sticking
with them and *not* buying or listening to anything new. I mean, true a lot
of metal these days has some sort of influence from the past, and most of
those bands even acknowledge the fact. Iced Earth's recent cover's album
Tribute to the Gods is the perfect example: covers of songs by Kiss, Blue
Oyster Cult, Iron Maiden, heck even Judas Priest's Screaming for Vengeance,
which rocks quite nicely. At least they ain't pretending to not be
influenced by these more classic metal acts.
||| We also make a lot of terrible music. Check some of the top 200
||| albums out. You'll hear a lot of soulless crap there as well.
|
|| Well, we may make some terrible music, but I dare say it's far more
|| creative than what's coming out of Europe. Europe, IMO, has just
|| become musically stagnant for whatever reason. Rap/hip hop, R&B,
|| rock n roll, jazz, country, bluegrass, ad nauseum, are all American
|| inventions (and mostly southern American inventions at that). The
|| bulk of what the masses buy the world over can trace it's lineage to
|| America. Now, true, a lot of it is shit I wouldn't listen to, but
|| the globe certainly seems to disagree with me. Britain has
|| contributed mightily to modern music (though it borrowed heavily
|| from American rock and r&b), but no one else in Europe has.
|
| You say you like Priest, Maiden and Sabbath, I wonder if you might
| like a band like Accept (Germans), or maybe some of the Scorpions
| (also German)
Well considering how old some of those bands are, sure <<<>>>'s probably
into them.
|| That said, we have our share of problems, believe me. However,
|| musical un-creativity isn't one of them. I'm not touting American
|| superiority. I'm merely stating the obvious. Like I said, we make
|| terrible cars. Europe makes great cars. I'd agree to stop making
|| cars if they'd agree to stop making music (especially buttmetal).
|
| Buttmetal? How about a list of 10 or so bands that you'd call
| buttmetal?
| Just so we know what to avoid. Or at least we can get an idea of
| where you are coming from.
Erm, I hate to say it but his reference to buttmetal refers to any band who
is still going playing a more traditional style of metal, and are from
Europe. Gamma Ray, Helloween, Blind Guardian etc. <<<>>> believes that they
are *new* bands, even though most of them have been around longer than a
decade or so, if not longer.
But anyhow, it's fast becoming obvious that <<<>>> is just flame-baiting
some people, so you can decide for yourself whether to keep trying to have a
decent discussion with him or not ;-)
Jgbintbass
>>Primal Fear also did a US tour together with Halford and some other bands
>>last month, but they lost shitloads of money when the tour was put to an end
>>earlier than it was supposed to.
>>
> They'll probably never forgive Rob for cancelling that short. From
>what I understand Halford was the headline of that.
Check HardNews on HardRadio.com within the past five weeks... specifically
5/26/03 pages 7 and 8 and 5/12/2003 page 5. Per the 5/12 info, it's not Rob's
fault at all but has to do with someone from Universal Attractions who
renegotiated multiple contracts without consent or knowledge from John Baxter,
Rob's manager, or the Senior Agent of Universal Attractions.
Me, I say why didn't they go back to the previous contracts? Don't know
though but a lawyer would have more of an idea.
Rock Hard Ride Free...
fluff
I like classical and baroque music, and I don't *hate* opera (although
I won't go and buy any albums). I just don't like the way they mix it
all together.
Allan Evans
<<<>>> <<<> banged this out:
| "Stian Mathisen" <stian_m...@c2i.net> wrote in message
| news:xTMHa.1202$BD3.9...@juliett.dax.net...
||
|| "<<<>>>" <c_l...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
|| news:bco3of$l4e7e$1...@ID-139729.news.dfncis.de...
||| Likewise, I must congratulate you as you are exactly what Germany
||| and Scandinavia are after: somebody who is after something old (ie,
||| played-out European powermetal that does nothing but rehash the
||| same worn territory of it's predecessors).
||
|| I really don't understand why you get so worked up about this shit
|| though. It's not as if power metal is on the radio all the time or
|| anything like that, it doesn't exactly haunt you in everyday life.
|| If you don't wanna listen to european metal you can easily not do it.
|
|
| I easily don't.
Getting back to this one, I'm curious: you profess a disliking for any Euro
metal, you say you do not listen to any of it, so how do you know what any
of these bands sound like anyhow? I mean, in another posting in this thread
you suggest to Tom that he should listen to A Night at the Opera. Well
moochumbo, if you totally dislike any European band, especially Blind
Guardian, then how do you even know what the album sounds like? They don't
exactly have listening booths for that album at CD stores, in fact it's an
import so only specialist stores might stock it. They don't play any Blind
Guardian on any mainstream radio stations in the US, so if you did indeed
hear a BG on the radio, then you have obviously gone out of your way to do
so, which when you consider the fact that you don't like the music, then why
would you? And to not also mention the fact that they also do not play BG
video clips on the music channels, uh, well, you get the picture.
If you didn't like nu-metal, well sure I can understand it, it's very hard
to avoid these days, but to profess to actually having a well developed
knowledge of these bands, which at the best of times you have to go out of
your way to hear, and in most cases only purchasing the CD is the only way,
well you know, enlighten us. ;-)
<<<>>>
<to...@abcs.com> wrote in message news:3eefbea6...@news.verizon.net...
> I like all that stuff as well, and it's lead me to listening to
> Opeth recently.
All roads lead to Opeth!
> say you like Priest, Maiden and Sabbath, I wonder if you might
> like a band like Accept (Germans), or maybe some of the Scorpions
> (also German)
I actually do love Roth-era Scorps.
> Buttmetal? How about a list of 10 or so bands that you'd call
> buttmetal?
> Just so we know what to avoid. Or at least we can get an idea of
> where you are coming from.
Oh man, you need to do a google search for it in the Maiden NG. We had a
GREAT time with this last year.
<<<>>>
> But anyhow, it's fast becoming obvious that <<<>>> is just flame-baiting
> some people, so you can decide for yourself whether to keep trying to have
a
> decent discussion with him or not ;-)
I would never do that to the sensitive fans of buttmetal!
<<<>>>
<to...@abcs.com> wrote in message news:3eefc26f...@news.verizon.net...
> Tue, 17 Jun 2003 18:14:26 -0400, "<<<>>>" <c_l...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >I'm not a big fan of ANY new metal.....but at least rap metal and it's
ilk
> >are doing something different. European powermetal is doing Priest and
> >Maiden over and over again. At least these kids are trying to fuse
> >different types of music and do something new with it. Powermetal is
just
> >so void of innovation it makes my brain hurt.
>
> If you're not a fan of metal, why bother reading a Judas Priest
> newsgroup?
NEW metal, Tom, new metal. It's right there in the post.
Allan Evans
<<<>>> <<<> banged this out:
Oh, ha ha, like that "buttmetal" reference was just sooo funny... ten years
ago.
You need new material, your one joke is wearing incredibly thin, but then
that's what flame-baiters usually do: keep wearing out the same old tired
insults until nobody gives a toss anymore. ;-)
<<<>>>
> Getting back to this one, I'm curious: you profess a disliking for any
Euro
> metal, you say you do not listen to any of it, so how do you know what any
> of these bands sound like anyhow? I mean, in another posting in this
thread
> you suggest to Tom that he should listen to A Night at the Opera. Well
> moochumbo, if you totally dislike any European band, especially Blind
> Guardian, then how do you even know what the album sounds like? They don't
> exactly have listening booths for that album at CD stores, in fact it's an
> import so only specialist stores might stock it. They don't play any Blind
> Guardian on any mainstream radio stations in the US, so if you did indeed
> hear a BG on the radio, then you have obviously gone out of your way to do
> so, which when you consider the fact that you don't like the music, then
why
> would you? And to not also mention the fact that they also do not play BG
> video clips on the music channels, uh, well, you get the picture.
Have you ever had Shaye come over to your house, drink beer, and crank up
Blind Guardian, Kamelot, Ark, etc, into all hours of the night?
I have. You should try it. She's cute.
>
> If you didn't like nu-metal, well sure I can understand it, it's very hard
> to avoid these days, but to profess to actually having a well developed
> knowledge of these bands, which at the best of times you have to go out of
> your way to hear, and in most cases only purchasing the CD is the only
way,
> well you know, enlighten us. ;-)
I have all kinds of silly tapes, CD's, and mp3's people have sent me. I
didn't realize how much this European metal stuff sucked until I got a good
listen to it. I actually have some Blind Guardian and Iced Earth within 20
feet of me as we speak (though I'd have to dig it out).
BTW, I love King Diamond. I think he's hysterical and own almost everything
he's ever done. I wouldn't call his stuff derivative.....as it's so out in
left field it's almost an sub-genre in and of itself (no choruses, no
traditional song structures, etc.). Anyway, unlike most European metal fans
who sit back and listen to shit about vikings and tales of
honor/courage/bravery, I can see the absurdity of it all.
Old metal is pretty goofy, but I love it. There's a campy quality to it
that's undeniable. These modern buttmetal bands have totally ruined any of
metal's endearing qualities. I don't just dislike these goofy ass Euro
metal bands though. You should see my reviews of Jugulator and Magica.
<<<>>>
> In news:bcqmsm$m8oc0$1...@ID-139729.news.dfncis.de,
> <<<>>> <<<> banged this out:
> | "Allan Evans" <SPAMTRAP....@lycos.com> wrote in message
> | news:bcomfr$l8esm$1...@ID-149776.news.dfncis.de...
> |
> || But anyhow, it's fast becoming obvious that <<<>>> is just
> || flame-baiting some people, so you can decide for yourself whether to
> || keep trying to have a decent discussion with him or not ;-)
> |
> | I would never do that to the sensitive fans of buttmetal!
>
> Oh, ha ha, like that "buttmetal" reference was just sooo funny... ten
years
> ago.
Are you telling us that buttmetal is a ten year old term for European stuff
that sucks?
>
> You need new material, your one joke is wearing incredibly thin, but then
> that's what flame-baiters usually do: keep wearing out the same old tired
> insults until nobody gives a toss anymore. ;-)
The only joke is how you keep running to the defense of goofy stuff like
Blind Guardian.
Allan Evans
<<<>>> <<<> banged this out:
| "Allan Evans" <SPAMTRAP....@lycos.com> wrote in message
| news:bcqm46$mfpr6$1...@ID-149776.news.dfncis.de...
|
|| Getting back to this one, I'm curious: you profess a disliking for
|| any Euro metal, you say you do not listen to any of it, so how do
|| you know what any of these bands sound like anyhow? I mean, in
|| another posting in this thread you suggest to Tom that he should
|| listen to A Night at the Opera. Well moochumbo, if you totally
|| dislike any European band, especially Blind Guardian, then how do
|| you even know what the album sounds like? They don't exactly have
|| listening booths for that album at CD stores, in fact it's an import
|| so only specialist stores might stock it. They don't play any Blind
|| Guardian on any mainstream radio stations in the US, so if you did
|| indeed hear a BG on the radio, then you have obviously gone out of
|| your way to do so, which when you consider the fact that you don't
|| like the music, then why would you? And to not also mention the fact
|| that they also do not play BG video clips on the music channels, uh,
|| well, you get the picture.
|
|
| Have you ever had Shaye come over to your house, drink beer, and
| crank up Blind Guardian, Kamelot, Ark, etc, into all hours of the
| night?
|
| I have. You should try it. She's cute.
So do you bag her out about it?
|| If you didn't like nu-metal, well sure I can understand it, it's
|| very hard to avoid these days, but to profess to actually having a
|| well developed knowledge of these bands, which at the best of times
|| you have to go out of your way to hear, and in most cases only
|| purchasing the CD is the only way, well you know, enlighten us. ;-)
|
|
| I have all kinds of silly tapes, CD's, and mp3's people have sent me.
| I didn't realize how much this European metal stuff sucked until I
| got a good listen to it. I actually have some Blind Guardian and
| Iced Earth within 20 feet of me as we speak (though I'd have to dig
| it out).
Hey, that's the magic of the internet: you can say whatever you like, it's
harder to prove unless you're actually there... ;-)
| BTW, I love King Diamond. I think he's hysterical and own almost
| everything he's ever done. I wouldn't call his stuff
| derivative.....as it's so out in left field it's almost an sub-genre
| in and of itself (no choruses, no traditional song structures, etc.).
| Anyway, unlike most European metal fans who sit back and listen to
| shit about vikings and tales of honor/courage/bravery, I can see the
| absurdity of it all.
|
| Old metal is pretty goofy, but I love it. There's a campy quality to
| it that's undeniable. These modern buttmetal bands have totally
| ruined any of metal's endearing qualities. I don't just dislike
| these goofy ass Euro metal bands though. You should see my reviews
| of Jugulator and Magica.
Ok, so how do you feel about bands like Manowar, Savatage, Nevermore etc.,
as they haven't exactly changed or redifined metal much over the years, and
even though times have changed, they still play the same style as they did
years ago. I get the feeling that you probably feel they are just as goofy
as the Euro "buttmetal" bands you dislike as well.
Anyhow I think the bottom line is we can agree to disagree. Discussions like
this one usually wear out after a while, and at the end of the day nobody
changes their mind on anything much, and more often than not beliefs are
reinforced. What you should keep in mind is that people are people, and just
because you don't like it, well thousands of others probably do, so each to
their own. Not everybody feels the same way you do about things, and I'm
sure we could keep going on endlessly about this same subject, but, you
know, jokes wear thin after a while. Unless of course it's the only joke you
know, and then, well wear it out. ;-)
to...@abcs.com
>
>Well that's the message I was conveying. <<<>>> feels that regardless of the
>fact that the rapcore/malcore/nu-metal bands do not do solos or play the
>guitar in any meaningful way, he still believes they are more "innovative"
>than say a band such as Gamma Ray or Helloween. I'm not in total
>disagreeance that bands like them aren't exactly breaking new ground,
>however I certainly do not view any of the current nu-metal as being
>anything other than pandering to the overpayed MTV and record company execs
>who are just after the "next big thing" to make a cool million or so,
>regardless of the lack of talent.
All this is true. The fact that the nu-metal bands are all
re-hashing riffs done many times before, and sometimes rapping doesn't
equate to "innovative" of you ask me. Perhaps if we ignore it, it will
just go away.
>||| That said, I think Rage Against the Machine (don't like), Tool
>||| (like), Korn (don't like), and the rap metal movement are FAR more
>||| innovative and original than Euro powermetal and it's offshoots.
>||
>|| Sorry, I don't think so. Nu-metal and rapcore lack soul or substance.
>|
>| Ironic how rap lacks soul isn't it.
>
>Yep, it sure does. Lyrically repetitive and toneless monotony is the better
>way of looking at rap. Mind you, I didn't mind that Run-DMC cover of that
>Aerosmith song, which was done way back in the eighties, you know that
>fusion of rap with metal. It did sound original way back then...
Yeah, that was sort of fresh. I also liked Faith No More's Epic,
which was also a sort of rap-metal. However, I don't think that
rap-metal has done anything good since then. Yeah, the Anthrax thing
too, but after all that, and all the rap I've ever heard, I sort of
look at rap as a sort of comical thing. They can't be serious or else
they'd been dead before they could record an album.
Of course I know a lot of them have been gunned down over the years.
Tom
<<<>>>
> | Have you ever had Shaye come over to your house, drink beer, and
> | crank up Blind Guardian, Kamelot, Ark, etc, into all hours of the
> | night?
> |
> | I have. You should try it. She's cute.
>
> So do you bag her out about it?
We goof on her all the time, ya big dork! Unlike you, she doesn't wrap up
her sense of ego and self with powermetal bands. She KNOWS that stuff is
funny. She just likes it. I like Judas Priest and my friends think it's
goofy. It is. Who cares?
Get a 6-pack of Pabst tallboys and some Foghat. It might help your
condition.
> Hey, that's the magic of the internet: you can say whatever you like, it's
> harder to prove unless you're actually there... ;-)
Yeah, maybe I'm making the whole thing up.
> Ok, so how do you feel about bands like Manowar, Savatage, Nevermore etc.,
> as they haven't exactly changed or redifined metal much over the years,
and
> even though times have changed, they still play the same style as they did
> years ago. I get the feeling that you probably feel they are just as goofy
> as the Euro "buttmetal" bands you dislike as well.
Yeah, they're pretty goofy. Manowar helped create much of the buttmetal
blueprint. However, they still aren't 1/100 as goofy as Blind Guardian or
Iced Earth (an impending 30+ minute song about Gettysburg???? ----- I rest
my case).
>
> Anyhow I think the bottom line is we can agree to disagree. Discussions
like
> this one usually wear out after a while, and at the end of the day nobody
> changes their mind on anything much, and more often than not beliefs are
> reinforced. What you should keep in mind is that people are people, and
just
> because you don't like it, well thousands of others probably do, so each
to
> their own. Not everybody feels the same way you do about things, and I'm
> sure we could keep going on endlessly about this same subject, but, you
> know, jokes wear thin after a while. Unless of course it's the only joke
you
> know, and then, well wear it out. ;-)
For a guy with no sense of humor, I think your gratuitous use of the smiley
is a bit ironic.
to...@abcs.com
<SPAMTRAP....@lycos.com> wrote:
>You know, I started off years ago listening to those same old rockers
>mentioned above, but I certainly wouldn't hedge all my bets by just sticking
>with them and *not* buying or listening to anything new. I mean, true a lot
>of metal these days has some sort of influence from the past, and most of
>those bands even acknowledge the fact. Iced Earth's recent cover's album
>Tribute to the Gods is the perfect example: covers of songs by Kiss, Blue
>Oyster Cult, Iron Maiden, heck even Judas Priest's Screaming for Vengeance,
>which rocks quite nicely. At least they ain't pretending to not be
>influenced by these more classic metal acts.
Yeah, that was a nice touch. They did the songs pretty well, and
usually nothing touches the original, and I usually don't like covers.
Mainly because they always seem to cover a huge hit song. Pick
something good, but less traveled.
Sort of like if someone covers Black Sabbath, they hit the War Pigs
(been done a lot) or Paranoid (also been done a lot). Of course doing
something like Hand of Doom proves interesting. (only been covered
once that I know of.)
>| You say you like Priest, Maiden and Sabbath, I wonder if you might
>| like a band like Accept (Germans), or maybe some of the Scorpions
>| (also German)
>
>Well considering how old some of those bands are, sure <<<>>>'s probably
>into them.
I don't know. They're probably too hit metal for him. He said he
didn't like metal anyway.
>Erm, I hate to say it but his reference to buttmetal refers to any band who
>is still going playing a more traditional style of metal, and are from
>Europe. Gamma Ray, Helloween, Blind Guardian etc. <<<>>> believes that they
>are *new* bands, even though most of them have been around longer than a
>decade or so, if not longer.
>But anyhow, it's fast becoming obvious that <<<>>> is just flame-baiting
>some people, so you can decide for yourself whether to keep trying to have a
>decent discussion with him or not ;-)
New is a matter of how long someone's known of a band. Sure a band
like Opeth started playing around in 1991, and recorded first in 1994.
However I hadn't heard of them before last year some time. They sort
of are a new band to me. Of course if someone bought the first album
back when it was first released, they'll think it's pretty old.
Tom
to...@abcs.com
wrote:
That may be the case, but to the bands who were opening for Halford,
they probably blame Rob and his management. They might not know the
reason why things were cut short.
Tom
to...@abcs.com
wrote:
>> That might well be. So many people hate classical music and opera. A
>>lot of people hate metal because it's too loud. So mixing the two
>>probably limits the fan base quite a bit.
>>
>>Tom
>
>I like classical and baroque music, and I don't *hate* opera (although
>I won't go and buy any albums). I just don't like the way they mix it
>all together.
The thing is a lot of people hate opera in any form. A lot of
people don't like to listen to classical music as well.
I can listen to classical music, some, but a lot of it you hear in
movie scores and such, and you've been hearing it all your life so it
feels so old.
Tom