Is Ian Anderson a Pagan?
Richard L. Robey
earth loving Heathen. I just was wondering if
anyone else on this news group, gets same feeling
out of the lyrics of Ian Anderson as I do. Has Ian
ever claimed to be a Pagan?
Don Jones
3ft
RCavola
Silly You ! Of course not !
Russ
LeeAnn5ft
I don't know, but honestly? This same question has crossed my mind. Or.. does
he believe in both sides? Or ALL sides?
I don't know....
There ARE many paths up the mountain.
LeeAnn
TPB
One very attractive young lady asked Ian if he believed in God. Ian said he
still had not decided, but when he did she would be the first to know.
I do not believe he has contacted her since.
TPB
=============================================
LeeAnn5ft wrote in message
<199809041114...@ladder01.news.aol.com>...
Adrian Burd
Hoodcrow
theres no absolute proof,ala the Stevie Nicks "Witch"
brouhaha.I think he is,but admitting to such a heinous crime would possibly be
artistic suicide in these "enlightened" times.
The Pantheistic Hooded Crow
Hoodcrow
>>earth loving Heathen.
>>I just was wondering if
>>anyone else on this news group, gets same feeling
>>out of the lyrics of Ian Anderson as I do. Has Ian
>>ever claimed to be a Pagan?
See the "Solstice Bells"Ep cover for"Clues".
H.C.
Witches' Promise
}>~MEANS~NOT~HAVING~<{
}>~TO~RESPOND~<{
Hoodcrow
>people ; )
>Surely, this thread is as cringe-making as the whole 'celtic' inlfuence
>one...
Are you saying that Pagans arent intelligent,or what?"Cringe Making"?Whats to
cringe at in an intelligent discussion?
Hooded Crow
3ftModelman
only eating non animal products keeps you fit.
3ft
Witches' Promise
}>~MEANS~NOT~HAVING~<{
}>~TO~RESPOND~<{
Malcolm White
3ftModelman wrote in message ...
>Yes I think he is,
>
>only eating non animal products keeps you fit.
>
>3ft
>
Seriously, who cares or what difference does it make.
Malcolm
Alysoun
>This is Just a loving question from an another
>earth loving Heathen. I just was wondering if
>anyone else on this news group, gets same feeling
>out of the lyrics of Ian Anderson as I do. Has Ian
>ever claimed to be a Pagan?
I think Ian is a Heathen but Heathen does not necessarily mean PAGAN in the
Wiccan sense.
I think Ian is absolutely irreverrant and probably skirts Discordianism if he
ascribes to anything.
Remember those of us who were the Convevtion and heard his reason behind "My
God" -- that Scottish Prebyterianism and his school principal claiming that
there was only the Judeo-Christian God has encouraged him to explore other
Faiths.
I prefer to think of him as that.
Allison
March the Mad Scientist
>>>This is Just a loving question from an another
>>>earth loving Heathen.
>>>I just was wondering if
>>>anyone else on this news group, gets same feeling
>>>out of the lyrics of Ian Anderson as I do. Has Ian
>>>ever claimed to be a Pagan?
>
>
religious beliefs of the various worldwide churches, whether it be
Christianity, Islam or whatever. He quite rightly IMO surmises that
these huge churches exist from a time when organised religion was used
by church/government as a means of population mind control, and that
this continues, in some ways even to the present day.
"The bloody Church of England, with its plastic crucifix"
This is contrary to personal beliefs, upon which I think he's been
deliberately ambiguous over and over again. If Ian's ever given a clue
as to his personal theism, it's in Divinities and Roots to Branches.
There is an awe in those lyrics on RtB
"True disciples carrying that message to colour just a little with their
personal touch"
(which was largely written following a tour of India), whereas the words
penned for Aqualung, say, show only contempt for the organised church.
The track Roots to Branches itself seems to be a call to all religions
to shut the f*ck up and get on with each other. Only then can humanity
grow, "roots to branches". The opening line harks right back to Aqualung
though.
Of course, in between those two albums there's almost 25 years during
which it's hard to find an album with _no_ religious overtones of any
kind, though the religions covered are many and varied, from God to
mammon.
I think Ian's on a personal quest for his God, and has been all his
adult life. At least he's thinking about it, and not just blindly
singing the songs and prayers that he was taught as a child. If that
makes his audience question their beliefs too, then we're in his debt.
--
March the Mad Scientist ICQ# 14675379 ma...@mad.scientist.com
http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Hills/1591/index.html
"No government can be long secure without a formidable opposition"
- Disraeli
"Mum! Mum! I wrote a serious post tonight!"
"Don't be silly, March, you've never written a serious post in your life. Now
drink your cocoa while it's hot."
Hoodcrow
>these huge churches exist from a time when organised religion was used
>by church/government as a means of population mind control, and that
>this continues, in some ways even to the present day.
In all ways.
>
>The track Roots to Branches itself seems to be a call to all religions
>to shut the f*ck up and get on with each other.
Amen Amen Amen!>I think Ian's on a personal quest for his God,
That may be,but why look outside for something already"Inside"?
"You are the god of everything,he's inside you and me"
Very astute analysis,March,ol'boy!Now about that Amorphous Blob................
Hooded Crow
Hoodcrow
>makes his audience question their beliefs too, then we're in his debt.
Beliefs that are not questioned become Dogma.Beliefs that cant stand up to the
light of day are not worth having.
Hooded Crow
jlc45
Witches' Promise wrote:
Well just don't post any pictures of your fur below!Actually he referred to an ancient Pagan "art".
We prefer to make our -own- cringe, usually out of thread we spun
ourselves.
We have an entire (unofficial) Glorious Guild of "The Lady of Fringes"
CringeMakers.
(They are a secretive and murderous lot, and not much is known about
their "craft")
You will rarely see the works of the Great CringeMakers, as they are
sacred and holy garments worn 'neath our furbelows.
Sorry, had to.
Jim :-)
Selena
<Oel3SI919GA.377@upnetnews03>...
> No, I think he's British
>
> 3ft
i thought he was scottish, actually. :P
Selena
:)
Jono
LeeAnn5ft wrote:
> Kelt wrote:
>
> >This is Just a loving question from an another
> >earth loving Heathen.
> >I just was wondering if
> >anyone else on this news group, gets same feeling
> >out of the lyrics of Ian Anderson as I do. Has Ian
> >ever claimed to be a Pagan?
>
> I don't know, but honestly? This same question has crossed my mind. Or.. does
> he believe in both sides? Or ALL sides?
> I don't know....
>
> There ARE many paths up the mountain.
>
> LeeAnn
ah jeeze, and I thought Tull fans were so much more intelligent than normal
people ; )
Surely, this thread is as cringe-making as the whole 'celtic' inlfuence one...
Jono
March the Mad Scientist
What? This one?
,#######,
#########
#########
#########
'#######'
.--' '--.
/` `\
/ '-. : .-' \
/ | : | \
/ /|.-- --.|\ \
\ ( / . \ ) /
\ \|jgs | |/ /
\ \_____*_____/ /
(_[I===I===I==]_)
|-|~~|:|~~|-|
| \__/:\__/ |
{-_ -: _= }
{_ /^\_ - }
{ -_ } { - _}
{_ } {_ - }
{____} {____}
(___) (___)
Cheers - M. <G>
--
March the Mad Scientist ICQ# 14675379 ma...@mad.scientist.com
http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Hills/1591/index.html
My brain went to bed 2 hours ago. Why is the rest of me still on usenet? - Me
crows...@hotmail.com
March the Mad Scientist <Ma...@mad.scientist.com> wrote:
> <snip>
> This is contrary to personal beliefs, upon which I think he's been
> deliberately ambiguous over and over again. If Ian's ever given a clue
> as to his personal theism, it's in Divinities and Roots to Branches.
> There is an awe in those lyrics on RtB
> I think Ian's on a personal quest for his God, and has been all his
> adult life. At least he's thinking about it, and not just blindly
> makes his audience question their beliefs too, then we're in his debt.
> March the Mad Scientist
Your post reminded me of something I read once in an interview, which I
patiently tracked down because I think it's relevant here.
From "Soundwave Number One Fall 1976", "Up A Lazy River With Jethro Tull", by
Norman Schreiber:
Ian: "I just don't believe honestly in anything yet," he explained. "I think
faith is always a difficult attribute to acquire. I think faith suggests the
lack of questioning and whenever one stops questioning it's all over. It
doesn't really matter what you believe in. You're probably wrong. But to want
to believe in something is good and to ask the questions and make little
forays into the meanings probably exhorts spiritual endeavor. I don't think
the answers are as important as the questions."
--
OneBrownMouse
-----
All elements agree in sweet and stormy blend,
Midwife to winds that send me home
-----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==-----
http://www.dejanews.com/rg_mkgrp.xp Create Your Own Free Member Forum
Hoodcrow
>--
>March the Mad Scientist ICQ# 14675379 ma...@mad.scientist.com
> http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Hills/1591/index.html
>My brain went to bed 2 hours ago. Why is the rest of me still on usenet? - Me
>
>
>
>
>
>
No,the Usenet Blob.Do you think a low yield Photon torpedo to its gelatinous
midsection will cripple it without interfering with the prime directive.?
Witches' Promise
}>~MEANS~NOT~HAVING~<{
}>~TO~RESPOND~<{
3ftModelman
Alysoun wrote in message
<199809042227...@ladder01.news.aol.com>...
>Hi:
>
>
>>This is Just a loving question from an another
>>earth loving Heathen. I just was wondering if
>>anyone else on this news group, gets same feeling
>>out of the lyrics of Ian Anderson as I do. Has Ian
>>ever claimed to be a Pagan?
>
>Wiccan sense.
>
>I think Ian is absolutely irreverrant and probably skirts Discordianism if
he
>ascribes to anything.
>
>Remember those of us who were the Convevtion and heard his reason behind
"My
>God" -- that Scottish Prebyterianism and his school principal claiming that
>there was only the Judeo-Christian God has encouraged him to explore other
>Faiths.
>
>I prefer to think of him as that.
>
>Allison
pardon, could you repeat that
3ft
sda...@rocketmail.com
March the Mad Scientist <Ma...@mad.scientist.com> wrote:
> >>>earth loving Heathen.
> >>>I just was wondering if
> >>>anyone else on this news group, gets same feeling
> >>>out of the lyrics of Ian Anderson as I do. Has Ian
> >>>ever claimed to be a Pagan?
> >
> >
> Ian's stance on religion has always been against the "organised"
> religious beliefs of the various worldwide churches, whether it be
> these huge churches exist from a time when organised religion was used
> by church/government as a means of population mind control, and that
> this continues, in some ways even to the present day.
>
>
> deliberately ambiguous over and over again. If Ian's ever given a clue
> as to his personal theism, it's in Divinities and Roots to Branches.
> There is an awe in those lyrics on RtB
>
> personal touch"
>
> (which was largely written following a tour of India), whereas the words
> penned for Aqualung, say, show only contempt for the organised church.
>
> grow, "roots to branches". The opening line harks right back to Aqualung
> though.
>
> Of course, in between those two albums there's almost 25 years during
> which it's hard to find an album with _no_ religious overtones of any
> kind, though the religions covered are many and varied, from God to
> mammon.
>
> adult life. At least he's thinking about it, and not just blindly
> singing the songs and prayers that he was taught as a child. If that
> makes his audience question their beliefs too, then we're in his debt.
> March the Mad Scientist ICQ# 14675379 ma...@mad.scientist.com
> http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Hills/1591/index.html
> - Disraeli
>
> "Mum! Mum! I wrote a serious post tonight!"
>
> "Don't be silly, March, you've never written a serious post in your life. Now
> drink your cocoa while it's hot."
>
You're a deep one, Mr. Scientist. No bout a doubt it. I hope you'll find the
lyrics on the Systems Theory album to be worthy of the same level of scrutiny.
Regards
SDM
-- The Systems Theory project is finally underway. An EP by Xmas, an album
in the spring...
3ftModelman
English, Irish, Welshish + Scotsish at the moment all come under British
flag, though they all seem to be trying to go their own way.
3ft
pand...@my-dejanews.com
hood...@aol.com (Hoodcrow) wrote:
> See the "Solstice Bells"Ep cover for"Clues".
- and CUP OF WONDER (In celebration of Beltane), RING OUT SOLSTICE BELLS (in
celebration of the Winter Solstice) and BELTANE ("Have you ever loved a lover
of the old elastic truth") - not to mention JACK-IN-THE-GREEN and DUN
RINGILL. Need and more clues?
-Pandance
1pa...@my-dejanews.com
pand...@my-dejanews.com wrote:
> In article <199809041625...@ladder03.news.aol.com>,
> hood...@aol.com (Hoodcrow) wrote:
>
> > See the "Solstice Bells"Ep cover for"Clues".
>
> - and CUP OF WONDER (In celebration of Beltane), RING OUT SOLSTICE BELLS (in
> celebration of the Winter Solstice) and BELTANE ("Have you ever loved a lover
> of the old elastic truth") - not to mention JACK-IN-THE-GREEN and DUN
> RINGILL. Need and more clues?
>
> -Pandance
Good Grief .... what a thread. I recall reading clearly that like myself,
Ian was raised Presbyterian .... and also that most of the early mention
regarding religion was about his views of the Catholic Church (another beef
of mine ... ever walk through the Vatican Museum?) and organized religion. As
far as all this Pagan stuff, he was doing a heavy folk oriented album and of
course he would draw upon folk LORE ... I love celtic knotwork and art ....
and look to ways to draw it in to my own life ... does not make me a Pagan or
a Celt or whatever. All the songs you mention were from one album. Excepting
Dun Ringill, which happened to be on property recently purchased. I rather
doubt Ian has any need for any Pagan rituals, or any other current trendy
religions. That is just not his style. Listen to his song lyrics ... he has
a pretty healthy attitude about life.
--
pamela http://www.geocities.com/soho/cafe/3604/muse.htm send real mail to
_pam...@geocities.com
Mark Colman
Mawk (New Yawk pronunciation)
Hoodcrow
>doubt Ian has any need for any Pagan rituals, or any other current trendy
>religions.
Who's talking about silly rituals?Its the attitude and lifestyle that count,Not
anything else.And Pantheism,Animism,Shamanism,etc,are much older than
any"Organized"belief system,despite the bad rap they get thanks to the "New
Agers"
>. ever walk through the Vatican Museum?
Nope,crucifixes repel me.
Nosferatu Crow
pand...@my-dejanews.com
1pa...@my-dejanews.com wrote:
> Good Grief .... what a thread.
- I've been waiting for it.
> I recall reading clearly that like myself,
> Ian was raised Presbyterian .... and also that most of the early mention
> regarding religion was about his views of the Catholic Church and organized
religion.
- About half the Pagans I've met are ex-Presbyterian, most of the rest are
ex-Catholic.
> As far as all this Pagan stuff, he was doing a heavy folk oriented album and
of course he would draw upon folk LORE
- More like getting into his roots - as David Pegg once stated.
> ... I love celtic knotwork and art .... and look to ways to draw it in to my
>own life ... does not make me a Pagan or a Celt or whatever.
- I like Celtic things, even though my ancestors are of Mediterranean origin.
I appreciate beauty wherever I see it.
> All the songs you mention were from one album. Excepting Dun Ringill,
- And BELTANE and PAN DANCE. I mentioned Dun Ringill because of the line "...
and we'll watch the old gods play." I could mention more, like the first track
on DIVINITIES.
> which happened to be on property recently purchased.
- Yeah, he bought an ancient Pagan Sacred Site!!!
> I rather doubt Ian has any need for any Pagan rituals,
- "We'll wait in stone circles, until the force comes through."
> or any other current trendy religions.
- Paganism is as old as the hills. Roman Catholocism (the foundation of all
Christian Religions)was grafted on Roman Paganism and still retains many pagan
elements.
> That is just not his style.
- I'm arguing that it is.
> Listen to his song lyrics ... he has
> a pretty healthy attitude about life.
- So do Neo-Pagans!
- Pandance
1pa...@my-dejanews.com
> >religions.
>
> Who's talking about silly rituals?Its the attitude and lifestyle that count,Not
> anything else.And Pantheism,Animism,Shamanism,etc,are much older than
Hey, don't put words in my mouth crow .... I never used the word silly, nor
would I ever criticise any religion. I am all for anything ... even of the
catholic church, if it keeps kids of the streets and drugs, and teachs people
morals and values ... and a healthy sense of self worth ..... though my
regards may not be so high for any "Gods" requiring subserviance, homage, and
sacrifices. That seems a bit contrary to helping a flock develope a healthy
and positive attitude of selfworth, much needed in a society where youngers
think they need a gun to get respect.
> any"Organized"belief system,despite the bad rap they get thanks to the "New
> Agers"
>
> >. ever walk through the Vatican Museum?
>
> Nope,crucifixes repel me.
Wrong again .... bird. Concept being here the vast amount of money and power
that the church has amassed, yet they do nothing about feeding the poor or
changing views on birth control, especially in 3rd world countries where
something needs to be done.
You should spend some time in the Shrine of Guadalupe in Mexico City and
watch these poor people crawling on their hands and bare knees on rough raw
cobblestones, in the name of religion. Perhaps the church has long given up
letting them do this, but there is no evidence to the observer that the
church discourages this sort of blind faith.
>
> Nosferatu Crow
>
--
pamela http://www.geocities.com/soho/cafe/3604/muse.htm send real mail to
_pam...@geocities.com
-----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==-----
Witches' Promise
}>~MEANS~NOT~HAVING~<{
}>~TO~RESPOND~<{
1pa...@my-dejanews.com
pand...@my-dejanews.com wrote:
> In article <6t0n5f$prv$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>,
> 1pa...@my-dejanews.com wrote:
>
> > Good Grief .... what a thread.
>
> - I've been waiting for it.
>
> > I recall reading clearly that like myself,
> > Ian was raised Presbyterian .... and also that most of the early mention
> > regarding religion was about his views of the Catholic Church and organized
> religion.
>
> - About half the Pagans I've met are ex-Presbyterian, most of the rest are
> ex-Catholic.
>
> > As far as all this Pagan stuff, he was doing a heavy folk oriented album and
> of course he would draw upon folk LORE
>
> - More like getting into his roots - as David Pegg once stated.
>
> > ... I love celtic knotwork and art .... and look to ways to draw it in to my
> >own life ... does not make me a Pagan or a Celt or whatever.
>
> - I like Celtic things, even though my ancestors are of Mediterranean origin.
> I appreciate beauty wherever I see it.
>
> > All the songs you mention were from one album. Excepting Dun Ringill,
>
> - And BELTANE and PAN DANCE. I mentioned Dun Ringill because of the line "...
> and we'll watch the old gods play." I could mention more, like the first track
> on DIVINITIES.
>
> > which happened to be on property recently purchased.
>
> - Yeah, he bought an ancient Pagan Sacred Site!!!
>
>
>
>
> Christian Religions)was grafted on Roman Paganism and still retains many pagan
> elements.
I am quite aware of that ... nor did I mean to criticize either, but to me
religion is a very special and personal spiritual thing, to be shared with
family and members of that church.
But when people start making an issue of "their" religions, and implying how
cool it is to be this or that way .... that one religion is better than
another, somehow the word trendy just pops right into my mind. Since the
Pagan religion is the only Religion I ever hear drug up in conversation on
this group, I just mistakenly assumed it was the vogue and trendy religion of
the year. My humble apologies.
>
> > That is just not his style.
>
> - I'm arguing that it is.
That was like over twenty years ago ... and both the John Muir Society and
Prince Charles i believe tried to buy the property. And I don't think Prince
Charles would agree that buying standing stones makes you Pagan. .... hey, if
Ian was a firm Pagan, don't you think he would have hung on to the property?
Those ancient stones dot the Island and the Highlands. And it is a beautiful
place ... most people are touched by the mystery surrounding the stones ...
but it seems to me if Ian followed the Pagan religion, by now he would have
mentioned it. Strong religious beliefs usually remain a constant in our
lives .... the evidence is always there.
Again, I didn't mean to insult anyone ... but I just don't see the evidence.
Why do YOU want to believe so much he is a Pagan? Can't he just have his own
personal life? And his own religion, whatever that may be?
"Why do the faithful have such a will to believe in something ...."
1pa...@my-dejanews.com
pand...@my-dejanews.com wrote:
> In article <6t0n5f$prv$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>,
> 1pa...@my-dejanews.com wrote:
>
> > Good Grief .... what a thread.
>
> - I've been waiting for it.
Are there no Pagan news groups where you can meet others with similar
interests.
> - About half the Pagans I've met are ex-Presbyterian, most of the rest are
> ex-Catholic.
So you are basically saying that most of the people in this group are
rebeling from their parents? Why does such an ancient religion not have
children following parents into it, as with most other religions ... I am
curious as to the average age of those in your group.
Hoodcrow
>Thanks so much, PanDance!
>Saved -me- lots of typing, and l couldn't have said it so well.
Yeah,Pan,BRAVO!
"The gutters run red while the FOOL toasts his god in the sky"
CAW!
Hoodcrow
No,I used the word "Silly".>I am all for anything ... even of the
>catholic church, if it keeps kids of the streets and drugs, and teachs people
>morals and values ... and a healthy sense of self worth ..... though my
>regards may not be so high for any "Gods" requiring subserviance, homage, and
>sacrifices. That seems a bit contrary to helping a flock develope a healthy
>and positive attitude of selfworth, much needed in a society where youngers
>think they need a gun to get respect.
And the argument is??????????
>Concept being here the vast amount of money and power
>that the church has amassed, yet they do nothing about feeding the poor or
>changing views on birth control, especially in 3rd world countries where
>something needs to be done.
>
>You should spend some time in the Shrine of Guadalupe in Mexico City and
>watch these poor people crawling on their hands and bare knees on rough raw
>cobblestones, in the name of religion. Perhaps the church has long given up
>letting them do this, but there is no evidence to the observer that the
>church discourages this sort of blind faith.
>
>
>
I dont need to go there,I can drive just South of here on "Easter"to watch
people get whipped as they carry a cross.
Seems you're preaching to the "choir".And I dont care if Ian is secretly a
Buddhist Monk or a Branch Davidian(though he doesnt sing about them),as long as
he keeps making the kind of music he has for the last 30 years.As long as he's
not a baptist! (hehehe)
Hooded Crow
Wintermute
> As far as all this Pagan stuff, he was doing a heavy folk oriented album and of
>course he would draw upon folk LORE ... I love celtic knotwork and art ....
>and look to ways to draw it in to my own life ... does not make me a Pagan or
>a Celt or whatever. All the songs you mention were from one album. Excepting
>Dun Ringill, which happened to be on property recently purchased. I rather
>doubt Ian has any need for any Pagan rituals, or any other current trendy
>religions. That is just not his style. Listen to his song lyrics ... he has
>a pretty healthy attitude about life.
>
Sorry, I am not quite sure where you are coming from on this one.
Some folks seem to need justification to listen to a particular
artist, even when their own belief systems collide with those of the
artists. I am also regretful that your own personal experiences with
members of the old religion have been less than favourable. Perhaps
you need to meet a few adult wiccans, druids, ect!
We are quite friendly and jolly people on the whole, and most all
of us (despite background) enjoy rejoicing and music and the friendly
positive atmosphere created. We are also a very thoughtful bunch
(except for the teenagers who get their ideas from Hollywood and not
from an elder practitioner).
As for the trendiness, My family (Scarbrough) has been on the
record for being celtic wiccan for over a thousand years, and probably
thousands more, considering the lack of recordkeeping. As a matter of
choice, I have not associated myself with one of these "trendy"
christian religions because of many things, but first and foremost I
like positivity and creativity. I tried christianity for a while when
I was younger and eventually gave up "Onward X-tian Soldiers" for
"Scarborough Fair", an old family song which finally gained some
notariety thirty years ago when Simon and Garfunkel sang it...I hope
you won't think any worse of us because we are of earth-based spirit
and our god(s) and goddes(es) are representations of the cyclic turn
of nature and the seasons. It could be far worse. I hear there are
some religions who actually set god apart from the people as a
separate force with whims and retribution.
My advice...listen to more Tull and buy a few more albums!
Blessed Be,
Ryan Scarbrough
1pa...@my-dejanews.com
hood...@aol.com (Hoodcrow) Re: Is Ian Anderson a Pagan?
>Seems you're preaching to the "choir".And I dont care if Ian is
>secretly a Buddhist Monk or a Branch Davidian(though he doesnt sing
> about them),as long as he keeps making the kind of music he has
> for the last 30 years.As long as he's not a baptist! >(hehehe)
>Hooded Crow
And once again it seems my words have been misconstrued to the point where I
do wonder why bother, considering my gross lack of ability to comunicate with
others. My original thoughts merely were that I don't understand this need
people have to tear apart 20-30 year old song lyrics and pin labels on
people. Nothing offensive was meant, and no preaching was intended. I just
couldn't justify taking another nap, regardless of the humidity.
1pa...@my-dejanews.com
> Some folks seem to need justification to listen to a particular
> artist, even when their own belief systems collide with those of the
Now, that is a shame. Look at Divinities. It is an album which in many ways
celebrates the musics of many different faiths and religions all around the
world. If I were to make any claims about Anderson's religion ... I would
say that Divinties shows a very broad and open minded approach. An
appreciation for creativity and art where ever it may be found.
> artists. I am also regretful that your own personal experiences with
> members of the old religion have been less than favourable. Perhaps
> you need to meet a few adult wiccans, druids, ect!
> We are quite friendly and jolly people on the whole, and most all
I have no negative impressions at all. Quite the opposite. It is all very
interesting .... and I have the utmost respect for all religions. I just
don't care for the commercial aspects, nor for people trying to sell it.
Trendy was the wrong word to use, but none the less, when you (not you but
others) start marketing it, you make it trendy.
> of us (despite background) enjoy rejoicing and music and the friendly
> positive atmosphere created. We are also a very thoughtful bunch
> (except for the teenagers who get their ideas from Hollywood and not
> from an elder practitioner).
> As for the trendiness, My family (Scarbrough) has been on the
> record for being celtic wiccan for over a thousand years, and probably
Now, that I find very interesting ... and a big contrast to claiming all the
members of the church are ex-members of Christian religions. It does not seem
to me that your view points are the same at all.
> thousands more, considering the lack of recordkeeping. As a matter of
> choice, I have not associated myself with one of these "trendy"
Actually that is a bit unfair, as I don't see anyone from these other
religions here trying to claim Ian as one of them, and trying to justify
listening to Tull. Perhaps I am misreading what you said ...
> christian religions because of many things, but first and foremost I
> like positivity and creativity. I tried christianity for a while when
> I was younger and eventually gave up "Onward X-tian Soldiers" for
> "Scarborough Fair", an old family song which finally gained some
> notariety thirty years ago when Simon and Garfunkel sang it...I hope
> you won't think any worse of us because we are of earth-based spirit
> and our god(s) and goddes(es) are representations of the cyclic turn
> of nature and the seasons. It could be far worse. I hear there are
> some religions who actually set god apart from the people as a
> separate force with whims and retribution.
> My advice...listen to more Tull and buy a few more albums!
>
> Blessed Be,
> Ryan Scarbrough
>
Ryan. Thank you for your interesting and informative post. For a final time
... I believe my earlier post was very much misinterprited. I just don't
think one Tull album in 30 years can determine a person's religion.
However, being misunderstood is not too uncommon on the web. I can't buy
anymore Tull to listen to until something new is released. :^) OK I CONFESS
I DON'T HAVE THIS WAS!!!! --
Jckalynn
ok...flame me!!!
Guys..guys....
...never discuss Religion and Politics in the Tull NG...
hmm??
It hasn't been that long since the 'slick willie' thread.
BTW, did you hear about Bill and....?
:-}~
Jacklaynn
Alysoun
>>I prefer to think of him as that.
>>
>>Allison
>
>
>pardon, could you repeat that
repeat what ?
Will certainly do it when I understand the question?
Allison
Hoodcrow
C'mon,Jacky Baby,its a lot more interesting than"Ian Anderson owes Australia
Big Time".
OK fine,lets put it to rest,Ian goes to church every Sunday like a good lad,and
carries god's wind up key with him.Everybody happy now?
pand...@my-dejanews.com
Ok, Jacklynn, I guess you are the voice of reason here. I did want to reply
to Pamela, but I think I'll just drop it. I just couldn't resist the title of
this thread. I joined this group because I love the music of Jethro Tull - it
has brought me many hours of pleasure. Even if Ian wasn't a Pagan, JT would
still be my favoite group. I didn't mean to offend you, Pamela. I have
enjoyed reading many of your postings.
NonTull
>interests.
Average rather than the exceptional.Got any good bootlegs?
1pa...@my-dejanews.com
> Big Time".
>
> OK fine,lets put it to rest,Ian goes to church every Sunday like a good lad,and
> carries god's wind up key with him.Everybody happy now?
>
Sadly enuough, the only thing which has really impressed me during this
thread about the Pagan faith is the amount of negativity towards Christian
and Jewish and similar religions.
It leads me to doubt that any Pagan would be of a mind to write At Their
Father's Knee.
I never meant to step on any toes and regret my attempts at an apology were
apparently worthless.
--
pamela http://www.geocities.com/soho/cafe/3604/muse.htm send real mail to
_pam...@geocities.com
-----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==-----
Jckalynn
Big Time".
>
...and codpeices! Well, on second thought....
Jackalynn
Rhiannon
pand...@my-dejanews.com wrote in message
>Ok, Jacklynn, I guess you are the voice of reason here. I did want to reply
>to Pamela, but I think I'll just drop it. I just couldn't resist the title
of
>this thread. I joined this group because I love the music of Jethro Tull -
it
>has brought me many hours of pleasure. Even if Ian wasn't a Pagan, JT would
>still be my favoite group. I didn't mean to offend you, Pamela. I have
>enjoyed reading many of your postings.
>
Pan, I agree with you, however, I do have to say that I feel a lot of people
are misguided on Paganism. Pamela said, and I quote
"So you are basically saying that most of the people in this group are
rebeling from their parents?"
No, rebelling from organized religion.
"Why does such an ancient religion not have children following parents into
it, as with most other religions ..."
Maybe because the Romans refused to allow any beliefs other than their own,
much like many religions today. Where do you get your facts from concerning
this issue. My children follow my beliefs, as do many other Pagan parents
with children. Secondly, we just don't announce ourselves as publicly as say
a Baptist, or Catholic would.
"I am curious as to the average age of those in your group."
Myself, 33. My friends and fellow believers, anywhere from about my age up
to 70, the oldest I know. Again, what is the point of that question???
"Since the
Pagan religion is the only Religion I ever hear drug up in conversation on
this group, I just mistakenly assumed it was the vogue and trendy religion
of
the year. My humble apologies."
And thus I believe that's why many of us jumped to our defense. Mistaking an
ancient belief as Trendy.....The thread was innocent enough. Opposing Jono's
belief that he thought Tull fans were so much more intelligent than normal
people, and thus he was appalled at the question, I rather feel that it
takes an intelligent person to read into the lyrics and correlate them into
meaning.
However, to end this, and to say to you Pam, I am not trying to start a
fight. Merely, asking you to reread the posts you have made, and see that it
looks like you are Paganphobic. You have to admit, there are many songs from
Jethro Tull that could be read as a belief in Paganism. I myself feel that
whatever makes you happy, so be it. Just don't make comments on my beliefs,
and I won't make them on yours.
To post to the original poster, I have to agree with almost all that March
wrote in his response.
Rhiannon
"In the clear white circles of morning wonder, I take my place with the lord
of the hills." TAAB
RCavola
trying to interpret the bible ! I think Ian believes he has White Ducks
all over his Fucking Walls !!! Soooooooooooo Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaat
!!!!!!!!!!!! Maybe the idea of someone that we all look up to ( Ian )
in a Black robe, holding a candle, believing in witches and warlocks
is a way to justify you pagans!
Russ
NonTull
>trying to interpret the bible !
Agreed.Well just take everything as read,thereby excusing the gray matter from
having to do any work
.>Maybe the idea of someone that we all look up to ( Ian )
>in a Black robe, holding a candle, believing in witches and warlocks
>is a way to justify you pagans!
Yes,I agree that it is very important that a belief system different than your
own has to justify its existance to you.
pand...@my-dejanews.com
In article <sLbJ1.1047$g04.7...@news3.mia.bellsouth.net>,
"Rhiannon" <kan...@nospam.bellsouth.net> wrote:
-----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==-----
Jckalynn
trying to interpret the bible ! >
Ian doesn't take his music as seriously as we do...he says that it's all in
good fun.
Jackalynn
LeeAnn5ft
>
>>Interpreting Ians lyrics is as fruitful as
>>trying to interpret the bible !
>
>
Here's one....
>
>Agreed.Well just take everything as read,thereby excusing the gray matter
>from
>having to do any work
and another comment...
>.>Maybe the idea of someone that we all look up to ( Ian )
>>in a Black robe, holding a candle, believing in witches and warlocks
>>is a way to justify you pagans!
>
>
and Non Tull's comment was.....
>
>Yes,I agree that it is very important that a belief system different than
>your
>own has to justify its existance to you.
>
>
My comment?
Touche' Mr. NonTull...
Now.. how's about a little tolerance people? I for one believe in anything, and
everything seen and unseen. So.. perhaps, we could just
"Let it Be" ?
Little LeeAnn
with little words.. in a little world.
Rhiannon
LeeAnn5ft wrote in message
<199809081939...@ladder01.news.aol.com>...
>My comment?
>
>Touche' Mr. NonTull...
>Now.. how's about a little tolerance people? I for one believe in anything,
and
>everything seen and unseen. So.. perhaps, we could just
>"Let it Be" ?
>
>Little LeeAnn
>with little words.. in a little world.
>
LeeAnn,
Well said. That's the point I was trying to communicate. Tolerance....
Rhiannon
also in a little world
sda...@rocketmail.com
RCa...@pacbell.net wrote:
> This is all a bunch of BS ! Interpreting Ians lyrics is as fruitful as
> trying to interpret the bible ! I think Ian believes he has White Ducks
> all over his Fucking Walls !!! Soooooooooooo Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaat
> in a Black robe, holding a candle, believing in witches and warlocks
> is a way to justify you pagans!
>
>
My Nanna had white ducks on her walls in the kitchen...so did lots of other
people living in the UK, and many still do I suppose.
Cheers
SDM
-- The Systems Theory project is finally underway. An EP by Xmas, an album
in the spring...
sda...@rocketmail.com
jcka...@aol.com (Jckalynn) wrote:
> >This is all a bunch of BS ! Interpreting Ians lyrics is as fruitful as
> trying to interpret the bible ! >
>
> good fun.
> Jackalynn
>
I suspect he takes his music and lyrics very seriously...but doesn't take
himself as seiously as *we* do...
Jckalynn
himself as seiously as *we* do...>
Is that what I meant? Well, anyway...it came out better than what I said.
Oh well...
Jackalynn:)
NetDove
"heck".
Pearlene Hawkins
Michael Pillsbury
> 'religion' so obviously wrong.
As an intelligent person, I take offense. I am not a pagan either, but I
have enough respect for the faith (and all other faiths) not to label it
as outright wrong. Nor to imply that it is not worthy of even being
called a religion.
Michael
Jono
RCavola wrote:
> This is all a bunch of BS ! Interpreting Ians lyrics is as fruitful as
> trying to interpret the bible ! I think Ian believes he has White Ducks
> all over his Fucking Walls !!! Soooooooooooo Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaat
> !!!!!!!!!!!! Maybe the idea of someone that we all look up to ( Ian )
> in a Black robe, holding a candle, believing in witches and warlocks
> is a way to justify you pagans!
> Russ
what is so crazy about having white ducks on the wall...it was quite a
common form of household decoration in the 60's and 70's. Perhaps it was
just a commonwealth phenomenon and didnt make it to North America. I admit
that it is odd to have "One White duck" on the wall, usually it would be a
formation of three
As for my last post, just call me Mr Shit Stirrer...it's a family trait...I
just though the "Is Ian a Pagan" "Dont you love the Celtic influence" etc
threads a little cheesy...I have to say it seems to be a classic caseof
"Othering" - a common human pastime
Jono
F.B.
>> That is just not his style.
>
>- I'm arguing that it is.
Ian Anderson is NOT a pagan. Nobody so intelligent could buy into a
'religion' so obviously wrong.
Matt P
F.B.
>
>On Mon, 07 Sep 1998 13:30:22 GMT, 1pa...@my-dejanews.com wrote:
>
>
album and of
>>course he would draw upon folk LORE ... I love celtic knotwork and
art ....
>>and look to ways to draw it in to my own life ... does not make me a
Pagan or
>>a Celt or whatever. All the songs you mention were from one album.
Excepting
>>Dun Ringill, which happened to be on property recently purchased. I
rather
>>doubt Ian has any need for any Pagan rituals, or any other current
trendy
>>religions. That is just not his style. Listen to his song lyrics ...
he has
>>a pretty healthy attitude about life.
>>
>
> Sorry, I am not quite sure where you are coming from on this one.
>artist, even when their own belief systems collide with those of the
>members of the old religion have been less than favourable. Perhaps
>you need to meet a few adult wiccans, druids, ect!
> We are quite friendly and jolly people on the whole, and most all
>positive atmosphere created. We are also a very thoughtful bunch
>(except for the teenagers who get their ideas from Hollywood and not
>from an elder practitioner).
> As for the trendiness, My family (Scarbrough) has been on the
>record for being celtic wiccan for over a thousand years, and probably
>choice, I have not associated myself with one of these "trendy"
>like positivity and creativity. I tried christianity for a while when
>I was younger and eventually gave up "Onward X-tian Soldiers" for
>"Scarborough Fair", an old family song which finally gained some
>notariety thirty years ago when Simon and Garfunkel sang it...I hope
>you won't think any worse of us because we are of earth-based spirit
>and our god(s) and goddes(es) are representations of the cyclic turn
>of nature and the seasons.
No, I think the less of you because your 'religion' is primitive pap
that has been empirically disproven. At the very least, Christianity,
Judaism and Islam have some eyewitness testimony to back them up. Ian
Anderson could not possibly believe in something so ludicrous.
Matt P
1pa...@my-dejanews.com
"Rhiannon" <kan...@nospam.bellsouth.net> wrote:
>
>
> >Ok, Jacklynn, I guess you are the voice of reason here. I did want to reply
> >to Pamela, but I think I'll just drop it. I just couldn't resist the title
> of
> >this thread. I joined this group because I love the music of Jethro Tull -
> it
> >has brought me many hours of pleasure. Even if Ian wasn't a Pagan, JT would
> >still be my favoite group. I didn't mean to offend you, Pamela.
Nor did you offend me .... but you see, no one was arguing against your
theory that Ian was a Pagan, and I have this really major hang up about
people who stereotype others ... so I thought I would toss out some opposing
opinions. There are always two sides to everything.
I just saw The Cruible. Good thing that people no longer think a spinster
with a cat is a witch. Or was that a bitch.
> >
>
> Pan, I agree with you, however, I do have to say that I feel a lot of people
> are misguided on Paganism. Pamela said, and I quote
>
> "So you are basically saying that most of the people in this group are
> rebeling from their parents?"
>
> No, rebelling from organized religion.
Well, I must disagree here ... any religion which shares the same beliefs and
worships together, and has a name, is an organized religion. Only the man
who worships a god with no name, and worships alone, can make that claim.
But I am going to assume you meant that you were not happy with the main
tradional religions, so decided to look else where. No problem with that at
all. I don't consider myself to follow any religion, nor would I defend any
of them.
>
> "Why does such an ancient religion not have children following parents into
> it, as with most other religions ..."
>
> Maybe because the Romans refused to allow any beliefs other than their own ....
Actually, Ryan has already shown me that is not the case, since his family
has followed the faith for generations if not centuries. Obviously there are
as many different sects within the Pagan faith as in the Christian one.
> much like many religions today. Where do you get your facts from concerning
I don't have any. Pandance just said his group was 50 percent ex-catholics
and 50 percent ex-prebyteran or whatever. Which sounds like 100 percent
converts. That is why I was asking. Beleive it or not ...some people just ask
questions to find out more information about a subject because we like to
know stuff.
> this issue. My children follow my beliefs, as do many other Pagan parents
> with children. Secondly, we just don't announce ourselves as publicly as say
> a Baptist, or Catholic would.
Guess I missed something here, because it seems to me that the Pagans are the
only ones discussing their faith on this group. Nor am I trying to offend
you, but merely pointing out a fact. After all, Ian wrote a fantastic epic
piece about Judaism ... but I don't hear anyone claiming he must be a Jew now
because of it. Perhaps he converted again.
>
> "I am curious as to the average age of those in your group."
>
> Myself, 33. My friends and fellow believers, anywhere from about my age up
> to 70, the oldest I know. Again, what is the point of that question???
What is the point? To further educate myself about the Pagan faith. I might
even go buy a book.
>
> "Since the
> Pagan religion is the only Religion I ever hear drug up in conversation on
> this group, I just mistakenly assumed it was the vogue and trendy religion
> of
> the year. My humble apologies."
>
> And thus I believe that's why many of us jumped to our defense.
No kidding .... how sad that you all have to feel that way. That is usually
the reason people share their feelings about religion in a group with others
who feel the same way.
> Mistaking an
> ancient belief as Trendy.....The thread was innocent enough.
No, I never made any such mistake. I fear you mistook my words ... I never
meant to indicate I felt the religion itself was trendy as in a new religion.
I was discussing the manner in which the more zealous of you approach the
subject matter in public. The Christian religion is quite old too, and for a
while there it was a very trendy to be a Born Again Christian. Don't blame
me ... when people start drawing religion into various discussions, it is
going to impact the conclusions others make about the religion.
> belief that he thought Tull fans were so much more intelligent than normal
> people, and thus he was appalled at the question, I rather feel that it
> takes an intelligent person to read into the lyrics and correlate them into
> meaning.
And discussions of religion will always result in nasty remarks as well.
>
> However, to end this, and to say to you Pam, I am not trying to start a
> fight. Merely, asking you to reread the posts you have made, and see that it
I did, actually. Nor was i ever trying to start a fight.
> looks like you are Paganphobic. You have to admit, there are many songs from
I don't see how I could be Paganphobic. Until I started reading this group
just over a year ago, I had no knowledge what so ever about the faith. All
my opinions are based on the comments made by posters on this group, and am
quite grateful to Ryan for showing me the differences in perspective.
In the meantime .... handing out labels like Paganphobic hardly falls in line
with the concept of tolerance. In fact ... it sounds like the Pagan faith is
just as "organized" as any other.
> Jethro Tull that could be read as a belief in Paganism. I myself feel that
> whatever makes you happy, so be it. Just don't make comments on my beliefs,
> and I won't make them on yours.
I never made any comments about your beliefs.
>
> To post to the original poster, I have to agree with almost all that March
> wrote in his response.
So did I. I didn't quite get the feeling that he thought Ian was a Pagan,
though ... so I guess I better go read his post yet another time.
>
> Rhiannon
> "In the clear white circles of morning wonder, I take my place with the lord
> of the hills." TAAB
>
>
--
pamela http://www.geocities.com/soho/cafe/3604/muse.htm send real mail to
_pam...@geocities.com
-----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==-----
1pa...@my-dejanews.com
NetDove <NOSPAM...@NOSPAMbigfoot.com> wrote:
> Ian and I belive in "Gosh". If you don't belive in "Gosh", you'll go to
> "heck".
>
>
Actually, i fall more towards golly-gee-whiz and fiddlesticks! And bless my
boots. --
crows...@hotmail.com
NetDove <NOSPAM...@NOSPAMbigfoot.com> wrote:
> Ian and I belive in "Gosh". If you don't belive in "Gosh", you'll go to
> "heck".
>
>
Dang right! :-)
--
OneBrownMouse
-----
All elements agree in sweet and stormy blend,
Midwife to winds that send me home
F.B.
<pill...@tc.umn.edu> writes:
>
>> Ian Anderson is NOT a pagan. Nobody so intelligent could buy into a
>> 'religion' so obviously wrong.
>
but I
>have enough respect for the faith (and all other faiths) not to label
it
>as outright wrong. Nor to imply that it is not worthy of even being
>called a religion.
Why do we get all touchy about something simply becuase it is labelled
a religion? There isn't much truth to paganism -- it was developed by
primitive peoples who didn't understand the forces of nature that
govern the world. It's akin to believing in the Greek gods.
One of the basic principles of Mormonsism is also patently false --
that the American Indians are the lost tribe of Israel.
I'm not endorsing any particular religion here, just pointing out that
there ARE some religions that have no possible basis in reality or
truth, and I'm sure that Ian Anderson wouldn't subscribe to them.
Matt P
Michael Pillsbury
> a religion? There isn't much truth to paganism -- it was developed by
> primitive peoples who didn't understand the forces of nature that
> govern the world. It's akin to believing in the Greek gods.
> One of the basic principles of Mormonsism is also patently false --
> that the American Indians are the lost tribe of Israel.
> I'm not endorsing any particular religion here, just pointing out that
> there ARE some religions that have no possible basis in reality or
> truth, and I'm sure that Ian Anderson wouldn't subscribe to them.
I'm not touchy about religion; I simply didn't like the attitude your post
displayed. Normally, I wouldn't have gotten involved (I prefer mostly to
lurk), especially in something as off-topic as this, but I felt that your
arrogance needed to be responded to.
It's true that many old religions fade and die. It's true that no one
believes in the classical Greek gods anymore-- which is why they have
become mythology. That's what happens to dead religions; they become
myth. But there are obviously people who subscribe to Paganism-- many of
them in our very midst-- so it deserves the respect of being called a
religion, regardless of how "right" it is. Eventually, I believe Paganism
will die, as will Buddhism, and all the Judeo-Christian faiths as well. If
the world survives long enough, science will find answers to everything we
currently need religion to explain. But until then, there will be a
plethora of conflicting religious views. As humans, can we at least make
an attempt to accept them, and communicate as equals?
Michael
"It's not my power to criticize
Or to ask you to be blind
To your own pressing problem
And the hate you must unwind"
Michael Pillsbury
> that has been empirically disproven.
And I think less of you for the disrespect and arrogance shown in this one short
sentence. If you're going to enter a discussion simply to disrupt it and insult
the other participants, please do so on another newsgroup.
Michael
NonTull
>Judaism and Islam have some eyewitness testimony to back them up.
Eyewitness testimony(???),but no Poloroids,hence,no Empirical evidence.
You sound,sir,like you would be the first one with a torch should the Burning
Times come again.
sda...@rocketmail.com
1pa...@my-dejanews.com wrote:
<snip>
> I just saw The Cruible. Good thing that people no longer think a spinster
> with a cat is a witch. Or was that a bitch.
<end snip>
Somehow *witch in heat* conjours an entirely different image than *bitch in
heat* <leer>
Cheers
SDM
-- The Systems Theory project is finally underway. An EP by Xmas, an album
in the spring...
-----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==-----
F.B.
<pill...@tc.umn.edu> writes:
>
>> No, I think the less of you because your 'religion' is primitive pap
>> that has been empirically disproven.
>
one short
>sentence. If you're going to enter a discussion simply to disrupt it
and insult
>the other participants, please do so on another newsgroup.
>
>Michael
>
Being short and sweet about something as idiotic as paganism just might
smack some sense into the people who are buying into it.
Matt P
F.B.
(NonTull) writes:
>
>>No, I think the less of you because your 'religion' is primitive pap
Christianity,
>>Judaism and Islam have some eyewitness testimony to back them up.
>
>Eyewitness testimony(???),but no Poloroids,hence,no Empirical
evidence.
>You sound,sir,like you would be the first one with a torch should the
Burning
>Times come again.
You, sir, are an incomphrenensible moron.
For example, we know that, in fact, a man named Jesus lived near
Galilee and that this man claimed to be the son of God. Whether this
is, in fact, the truth is obviously open to debate.
We know for a fact that there was a Mohammed who claimed to have been
given visions by God. Whether or not we believe them is obviously open
to debate.
There simply is not a shred of evidence to prove the existence of the
principles of paganism, animism, etc. All of the phenomena that
paganism was created to explain has already been explained by science.
Matt P
1pa...@my-dejanews.com
Jono <pig...@ihug.co.nz> wrote:
>
> what is so crazy about having white ducks on the wall...it was quite a
>
> Jono
>
>
Are You Mad???? hush up! You have to replace those ducks with geese or cows
right away, for your own safety! --
pamela http://www.geocities.com/soho/cafe/3604/muse.htm send real mail to
_pam...@geocities.com
-----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==-----
1pa...@my-dejanews.com
sda...@rocketmail.com wrote:
> In article <6t4qav$hf2$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>,
> 1pa...@my-dejanews.com wrote:
>
> <snip>
> > with a cat is a witch. Or was that a bitch.
>
> Somehow *witch in heat* conjours an entirely different image than *bitch in
> heat* <leer>
>
> Cheers
> SDM
>
Oh, right. I'll bet if the witch/bitch looked good enough, it wouldn't make
any difference at all! Men. :^)
1pa...@my-dejanews.com
ltri...@ix.netcom.com(F.B.) wrote:
>
> Being short and sweet about something as idiotic as paganism just might
> smack some sense into the people who are buying into it.
>
> Matt P
>
Don't you ever get tired of being the music critic ... of playing the bad
guy? Don't you ever tire of being mean? Someday when you get old and tired
and in you are sitting in your wheel chair, and no one comes to visit, you
may find yourself wishing you hadn't been such a jerk to everyone. --
NonTull
Charles Manson had "visions",too.Should we make a religion of him?Your
intolerance is truly mind-boggling.Still with the Klan?
Michael Futreal
Michael Pillsbury wrote:
A nice reply, Michael, though I feel there is a bit for me to add that bears
on this business of religion being "right" or correct. The original poster
seemed to think that religions have credibility based on how "right" they are.
Your reply seems to suggest a similar view (even while you tactfully avoid
attempting to debunk belief systems from the status of "religion") in that you
suggest that science will eventually find answers to the questions you see at
the root of religions. I would suggest two things in regards to this: 1)
science as a belief system requires a faith in its assumptions and methods that
is every bit as arbitrary as a belief in the existance of magic, gods, etc....
(now, mind you, once you have accepted the bed-rock of either, then the issue
of correct vs. incorrect does indeed become relevant, at least among those who
share similar assumptions); and, 2) more important to the debate here, religion
is not necessarily about answering questions; for some, it is quite
experiential -- they have Felt the powers that they believe in. I rather
suspect that there will always be a "plethora of conflicting" beliefs, be they
labeled as scientific, religious, kooky or what ever -- that is, whatever
answers science provides will be afforded no particular special privilige in
the universe of knowledge where many people are concerned -- and indeed, even
where satisfying, science will fail to encompass all areas of human experience
for all people.
This thread is progressing far afield of Jethro Tull, but what the hell.
Perhaps RealTull will enjoy reading it all. Are you out there RealTull?
Michael Futreal
Shameless self promoting sig:
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Listen to my band, The Offramps, at http://offramps.simplenet.com
Reasons to do so:
1) We're big Jethro Tull fans.
2) We use acoustic guitars, dulcimers, recorders, flutes, harmonicas, and voice
in a progressive rock-pop manner.
3) er, if you do, you might be compelled to buy our CD!!!!! ( and then I could
quit the damn day job...)
sda...@rocketmail.com
1pa...@my-dejanews.com wrote:
> In article <6t58nv$5pa$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>,
> sda...@rocketmail.com wrote:
> > In article <6t4qav$hf2$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>,
> > 1pa...@my-dejanews.com wrote:
> >
> > <snip>
> > > with a cat is a witch. Or was that a bitch.
> >
> > Somehow *witch in heat* conjours an entirely different image than *bitch in
> > heat* <leer>
> >
> > Cheers
> > SDM
> >
>
> Oh, right. I'll bet if the witch/bitch looked good enough, it wouldn't make
> any difference at all! Men. :^)
>
>
> pamela http://www.geocities.com/soho/cafe/3604/muse.htm send real mail to
> _pam...@geocities.com
>
> -----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==-----
> http://www.dejanews.com/rg_mkgrp.xp Create Your Own Free Member Forum
>
Gives new meaning to the phrase *she burned at my touch* (& vice versa)...
<wicked laughter>
Regards SDM -- The Systems Theory project is finally underway. An EP by
Xmas, an album in the spring...
-----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==-----
Witches' Promise
Witches' Promise
F.B.
Witches...@webtv.net (Witches' Promise) writes:
>
>
>--WebTV-Mail-896691203-1236
>Content-Type: Text/Plain; Charset=US-ASCII
>Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit
>
>Jesus never said he was "God".
>ln fact, his response to said allegation was "You say that l am"
>He referred to himself as "The Son of Man".
>
>(As he led his 12 disciples) <ahem>
>
>
>W ( Universal Mythopaeia ) P
Jesus most certainly claimed to be the Son of God.
The Phrase 'Son of Man,' as it was used in Ancient Hebrew, is
translatable into Son of God when used in the proper context. This is
easily validated by cross-referencing Daniel 7:13, (3d century B.C.) in
which a vision is described wherein a Being "like a son of man"
descends from the heavens to take dominion over the people of the
earth.
Of course, I'm not saying that I believe that it's true, just that the
claim *was* indeed made.
Matt P
F.B.
>
>In article <6t58s7$h...@sjx-ixn10.ix.netcom.com>,
> ltri...@ix.netcom.com(F.B.) wrote:
>
>
>>
>> Being short and sweet about something as idiotic as paganism just
might
>> smack some sense into the people who are buying into it.
>>
>> Matt P
>>
>
>Don't you ever get tired of being the music critic ... of playing the
bad
>guy?
Bad guy? I made that post with the purely humanitarian intent that I
could help improve the lives of individuals who might have gone astray.
And how in the world can you equate music critics with being a "bad
guy?" These are tireless individuals who devoted a life with a nearly
certain poor salary to listen to music for their livelihood. I respect
them greatly.
Don't you ever tire of being mean? Someday when you get old and tired
>and in you are sitting in your wheel chair, and no one comes to visit,
you
>may find yourself wishing you hadn't been such a jerk to everyone.
I'm just trying to help.
I'M mean because Paganism is a fraud? I think you really need to
direct your anger and agression at the real culprit here, and not take
potshots at innocent bystanders.
Matt P
March the Mad Scientist
at the 'puter and typed this into the gate:
>
>Why do we get all touchy about something simply becuase it is labelled
>a religion? There isn't much truth to paganism -- it was developed by
>primitive peoples who didn't understand the forces of nature that
>govern the world.
It was developed by peoples who were far more in touch with those forces
of nature than modern man. It was developed by peoples who lived in
small groups with no need to exert mind control over their subjects by
threatening eternal damnation for any transgression of religious law. It
was developed by peoples who appreciated the cyclical nature of life,
the Universe and everything. Who just maybe understood these things even
better in some ways than we do today with all our science.
It has been around for many times as long as most other religions. I
understand it to be an extremely holistic and respectful philosophy.
Name one war in which the Pagans were on either side.
Now take your intolerance and stick it up your fatwa.
--
March the Mad Scientist ma...@mad.scientist.com
http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Hills/1591/index.html
upint...@hotmail.com ICQ# 14675379
"Anger makes dull men witty, but it keeps them poor." - Elizabeth I
March the Mad Scientist
the 'puter and typed this into the gate:
> Jono <pig...@ihug.co.nz> wrote:
>
>>
>> what is so crazy about having white ducks on the wall...it was quite a
>
>>
>> Jono
>>
>>
>
>Are You Mad????
Um, ?
--
March the Mad Scientist ICQ# 14675379 ma...@mad.scientist.com
http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Hills/1591/index.html
"No dry Ice? No dry ice? Hey Jason, they've got no dry ice!! - HMHB
Rhiannon
Pam,
After reading your replies to my replies, I would have to say that we both
have misunderstood each other in some ways. Instead of carrying on and
clarifying each line for line, suffice it to say, that we probably agree on
many more things. I don't necessarily believe Ian is a Pagan either. I just
felt there wasn't a need to slam anyone who believes in Paganism. I feel Ian
is close to someone who is a Pagan, though.
I apologize for the Paganphobic remark. It was uncalled for. I just get
defensive when people slam what they are unsure of, which, incorrectly, I
felt you were. It did seem to me that so many were so quick to deny that Ian
could have Pagan beliefs. The original poster just asked an innocent
question and everyone went off on this tangent.
Rhiannon
ja...@the.green
Best Policy :
Avoid the subjects of politics and religion on the newsgroup.....
It's not what we are here for........and.......
They are guaranteed to provoke ire.
JITG
jlc45
Jim :-)
1pa...@my-dejanews.com
Whatever. I just reread my post again for the umpteenth time and really can't
for the life of me figure out how I slammed the religion; I have apologized
previously for my careless use of the word trendy but will be glad to do so a
few more times. Whatever makes you happy. I have a tendancy to not say enough
to clarify my statements ... by saying Ian didn't have time for other trendy
religions, I should have said it seems highly unlikely that anyone with such
strong feelings about one organized religion, would then turn around and
embrace another.
And if you are going to tell me the Pagan faith does not have it's own
rituals and traditions, I guess I shall have to stop reading all those
romance novels. --
pand...@my-dejanews.com
didn't deserve a reply.
In article <XmRzEbAG...@clint.demon.co.uk>,
March the Mad Scientist <Ma...@mad.scientist.com> wrote:
> 'Twas on the plains of alt.music.jethro-tull, the year was '98. F.B. sat
> at the 'puter and typed this into the gate:
> >
> >Why do we get all touchy about something simply becuase it is labelled
> >a religion? There isn't much truth to paganism -- it was developed by
> >primitive peoples who didn't understand the forces of nature that
> >govern the world.
>
> It was developed by peoples who were far more in touch with those forces
> of nature than modern man. It was developed by peoples who lived in
> small groups with no need to exert mind control over their subjects by
> threatening eternal damnation for any transgression of religious law. It
> was developed by peoples who appreciated the cyclical nature of life,
> the Universe and everything. Who just maybe understood these things even
> better in some ways than we do today with all our science.
>
> It has been around for many times as long as most other religions. I
> understand it to be an extremely holistic and respectful philosophy.
> Name one war in which the Pagans were on either side.
>
> Now take your intolerance and stick it up your fatwa.
> --
> March the Mad Scientist ma...@mad.scientist.com
> http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Hills/1591/index.html
> upint...@hotmail.com ICQ# 14675379
> "Anger makes dull men witty, but it keeps them poor." - Elizabeth I
>
-----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==-----
Sam in San Diego
> Charles Manson had "visions",too.Should we make a religion of him?Your
> intolerance is truly mind-boggling.Still with the Klan?
HELLO
Nice of you to join us today.
HOW ARE WE FEELING????????????????
better today then yesterday? I hope.
ALL THE BEST sam in san diego
ö ö
¿
~
Brikbat9
Nobody can argue your last statement, but sometimes provoking a little ire is
all part of the fun.
Jack
Rhiannon
1pa...@my-dejanews.com <1pa...@my-dejanews.com> wrote in message
>Whatever.
I offer a truce, and you reply whatever. You slammed the religion by putting
it in a category of trendy. We all accepted your apology on that matter. So
when I explain to you where I got anger, you retaliate with more
>I just reread my post again for the umpteenth time and really can't
>for the life of me figure out how I slammed the religion; I have apologized
>previously for my careless use of the word trendy but will be glad to do so
a
>few more times. Whatever makes you happy. I have a tendancy to not say
enough
>to clarify my statements ... by saying Ian didn't have time for other
trendy
>religions, I should have said it seems highly unlikely that anyone with
such
>strong feelings about one organized religion, would then turn around and
>embrace another.
>And if you are going to tell me the Pagan faith does not have it's own
>rituals and traditions, I guess I shall have to stop reading all those
>romance novels. --
Where did I ever say in my previous post to you that the pagan faith does
not have its own rituals and
traditions??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
Maybe I should recall my truce and we can continue.
Rhiannon
Brikbat9
>Jesus never said he was "God".
>ln fact, his response to said allegation was "You say that l am"
>He referred to himself as "The Son of Man".
Please refer to John 10:30 "I and the Father are one" and John 14:9 "He that
has seen me has seen the Father". Also, the first 181 verses of John 1 would
imply strongly that Jesus does claim to be God.
Jack
1pa...@my-dejanews.com
blk...@ptinet.net (Greg) Re: Pam, a truce?
> Maybe this should be taken up somewhere else I really don't think
> most of us into this thread.
> Thanks
> Greg
My apologies to all on the newsgroup ... I was merely trying to explain
myself ... thanks for your patience. --
pamela http://www.geocities.com/soho/cafe/3604/muse.htm send real mail to
_pam...@geocities.com
-----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==-----
Greg
Rhiannon wrote:
Maybe this should be taken up somewhere else I really don't think most of us
into this thread. Thanks. Greg
LeeAnn5ft
Daniel B. Holzman
>
>Good Grief .... what a thread. I recall reading clearly that like myself,
>Ian was raised Presbyterian .... and also that most of the early mention
Lots of Pagans were raised Presbyterian.
>I rather
>doubt Ian has any need for any Pagan rituals, or any other current trendy
>religions. That is just not his style. Listen to his song lyrics ... he has
>a pretty healthy attitude about life.
As do many Pagans.
Sounds like the answer to "Is Ian Anderson Pagan" is "We don't know, and
he ain't saying."