Bach Geneology
Lolita
And if so, are there any talented musicians/composers amongst them?
Curious to know.
LSA
Daan
Well, you might be surprised to know that a research has been conducted
once in which as well evidence as anti-evidence was found that a sense
of music is genetic. Therefore, it might be cultural determined (or at
least in some sense) and a musical grand-master might have totally
a-musical descendants.
Daan
Lolita schreef:
--
to reply, remove BACH from emailaddress.
(sorry, had some SPAM-trouble)
Sybrand Bakker
are 15 descendants, of which the youngest was born in 1989. He doesn't
discuss their musicality
--
Sybrand Bakker
Lolita <lol...@q-net.net.au> wrote in message
news:94846566...@hearts.q-net.net.au...
Sybrand Bakker
--
Sybrand Bakker
Daan <daanB...@wins.uva.nl> wrote in message
news:38887BCA...@wins.uva.nl...
>
> Well, you might be surprised to know that a research has been conducted
> once in which as well evidence as anti-evidence was found that a sense
> of music is genetic. Therefore, it might be cultural determined (or at
> least in some sense) and a musical grand-master might have totally
> a-musical descendants.
>
> Daan
>
> Lolita schreef:
> >
> > Are there any direct descendants of JS Bach?
> > And if so, are there any talented musicians/composers amongst them?
> > Curious to know.
> >
> > LSA
>
Jens Richter
His 2. son Carl-Philip-Emanuel Bach, Hofkapellmeister / King Friedrich II,
until "Mendelssohn's Matthäus Passion" more famous than his father.
His 1. son, Friedemann Bach, the most gifted of his sons, unfortunately a
hard drinker.
Christian Bach, the very famous "Londoner Bach"
Bernhard Bach, composer of "Erbauliche Gedanken eines Tabakrauchers", was an
autistic child but extremely gifted. When he played the Clavicord ("am
Clavier fantasierte") his father was in tears because Bernhard improvised
amazingly.
Jens
"Sybrand Bakker" <postm...@sybrandb.demon.nl> wrote in message
news:948476821.23710....@news.demon.nl...
Lolita
Jens Richter <jric...@callnetuk.com> wrote in message
news:3888...@eeyore.callnetuk.com...
> Famous descendants of J.S.Bach? Eg:
> His 2. son Carl-Philip-Emanuel Bach, Hofkapellmeister / King Friedrich II,
> until "Mendelssohn's Matthäus Passion" more famous than his father.
> His 1. son, Friedemann Bach, the most gifted of his sons, unfortunately a
> hard drinker.
> Christian Bach, the very famous "Londoner Bach"
> Bernhard Bach, composer of "Erbauliche Gedanken eines Tabakrauchers", was
an
> autistic child but extremely gifted. When he played the Clavicord ("am
> Clavier fantasierte") his father was in tears because Bernhard improvised
> amazingly.
> Jens
>
Thank-you, I am well aware of the amazing abilities of some of his sons.
LSA
jan...@yahoo.com
Jan
In article <948469556.20445....@news.demon.nl>,
"Sybrand Bakker" <postm...@sybrandb.nospam.demon.nl> wrote:
> According to Boyd, Oxford Composer Companions, J.S. Bach, currently
there
> are 15 descendants, of which the youngest was born in 1989. He doesn't
> discuss their musicality
>
> --
> Sybrand Bakker
> Lolita <lol...@q-net.net.au> wrote in message
> news:94846566...@hearts.q-net.net.au...
> > Are there any direct descendants of JS Bach?
> > And if so, are there any talented musicians/composers amongst them?
> > Curious to know.
> >
> > LSA
> >
> >
> >
>
>
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Zachary Uram
On Fri, 21 Jan 2000, Lolita wrote:
> Are there any direct descendants of JS Bach?
> And if so, are there any talented musicians/composers amongst them?
> Curious to know.
>
> LSA
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________
ur...@cmu.edu
"Blessed are those who have not seen and yet have faith." - John 20:29
Ioannis Galidakis
> [snip]
> I was referring to later generations. (circa 20th century)
> Thank-you, I am well aware of the amazing abilities of some of his sons.
>
> LSA
Lol,
There should be quite many descendants, but the most famous is probably
the author Richard Bach, who wrote "Jonathan Seagul", "One", and "A
bridge Across Forever". If you want to find more about him, I suggest
the group, "alt.soulmates".
--
Ioannis Galidakis jg...@ath.forthnet.gr
<http://www.crosswinds.net/athens/~jgal/main.html>
______________________________________
"Blessed are the ones who can laugh at themselves,
for they shall never cease to be amused."
the_bells
Ioannis Galidakis wrote in message
<388CA5...@ath.forthnet.gr>...
>Lolita wrote:
>> [snip]
>> I was referring to later generations. (circa 20th century)
>> Thank-you, I am well aware of the amazing abilities of some of
his sons.
>>
I believe I read in an old biography that there are no surviving
linear descendants of Johann Sebastian Bach, the last such having
died without heirs in the early part of the 20th century.
Lolita
Ioannis Galidakis <jg...@ath.forthnet.gr> wrote in message
news:388CA5...@ath.forthnet.gr...
> Lolita wrote:
> > [snip]
> > I was referring to later generations. (circa 20th century)
> > Thank-you, I am well aware of the amazing abilities of some of his sons.
> >
>
> Lol,
> There should be quite many descendants, but the most famous is probably
> the author Richard Bach, who wrote "Jonathan Seagul", "One", and "A
> bridge Across Forever". If you want to find more about him, I suggest
> the group, "alt.soulmates".
> --
> Ioannis Galidakis jg...@ath.forthnet.gr
> <http://www.crosswinds.net/athens/~jgal/main.html>
> ______________________________________
REALLY?
The one and only Richard Bach is related to JS ?
Wow....living is learning.
Thanks for the info Ioannis!
LSA
Lolita
Zachary Uram <zu...@andrew.cmu.edu> wrote in message
news:Pine.SOL.3.96L.100012...@unix7.andrew.cmu.edu...
> no
>
> On Fri, 21 Jan 2000, Lolita wrote:
>
> > Are there any direct descendants of JS Bach?
> > And if so, are there any talented musicians/composers amongst them?
> > Curious to know.
Ah Zach!
heehehe
A short and sweet answer, which clearly is incorrect, according to the other
posts.
Thanks for your 2 cents worth though.
:)
LSA
Zachary Uram
> heehehe
> A short and sweet answer, which clearly is incorrect, according to the other
> posts.
Drop the glibness, you are in fact the one who is incorrect on
this. Look before you leap. Have you researched this issue
independently? 1 group member saying the author Bach is direct
bloodline descendant of Bach does not establish this as fact. If
you do research the issue you will find there are no direct blood
descendants of Bach from the Bach male bloodline and it is highly
unlikely there exist any on the female bloodline either. I would
ask Ionannis for some documented rigorous proof that the author
Bach is related to J.S. Bach before you pass scanty and faulty
judgement on my comments.
$0.01
Zach
Ioannis Galidakis
[snip]
> Drop the glibness, you are in fact the one who is incorrect on
> this. Look before you leap. Have you researched this issue
> independently? 1 group member saying the author Bach is direct
> bloodline descendant of Bach does not establish this as fact. If
> you do research the issue you will find there are no direct blood
> descendants of Bach from the Bach male bloodline and it is highly
> unlikely there exist any on the female bloodline either. I would
> ask Ionannis for some documented rigorous proof that the author
> Bach is related to J.S. Bach before you pass scanty and faulty
> judgement on my comments.
Aw, comon, Zach, give Lolita a break. :*)
Richard Bach mentions this (that his grand-grand-dad was JS) in one of
those two books. I don't remember which one, so I guess one would have
to read both "One" and "A Bridge Across Forever".
At some point, Leslie Parish (Richard's current wife) sits at the piano
and plays some Bach, and the author comments on how well she played the
music of his great-great-grand-dad. So, I guess, it depends on the
author's own words. If he is lying, then this info would be incorrect.
Cheerio
> $0.01
>
> Zach
--
Ioannis Galidakis jg...@ath.forthnet.gr
<http://www.crosswinds.net/athens/~jgal/main.html>
______________________________________
Leonor Barroso
Jaime Jean
Jaime
Ioannis Galidakis <jg...@ath.forthnet.gr> escribió en el mensaje de noticias
388CA5...@ath.forthnet.gr...
> There should be quite many descendants, but the most famous is probably
> the author Richard Bach, who wrote "Jonathan Seagul", "One", and "A
> bridge Across Forever". If you want to find more about him, I suggest
> the group, "alt.soulmates".
Debbie Cusick
> 1 group member saying the author Bach is direct
> bloodline descendant of Bach does not establish this as fact. If
> you do research the issue you will find there are no direct blood
> descendants of Bach from the Bach male bloodline and it is highly
> unlikely there exist any on the female bloodline either.
How about this quote, then, that on the surface certainly sounds more
substantiated:
>> Sybrand Bakker said:
>>According to Boyd, Oxford Composer Companions, J.S. Bach, currently
>>there
>>are 15 descendants, of which the youngest was born in 1989. He doesn't
>>discuss their musicality
--
Debbie Cusick
Zachary Uram
> I usually assume no "cheating intent" or "intent to missinform" when I
> read someone's books. If he is making things up to sell books, then
> that's another matter. Particularly in view of the fact that many people
> may have changed their last names to Bach in order to pay respects to
> JS.
Hi Ioannis
Yes the author may have had good intentions or even truly
believed he was related to Bach, again this does not prove
anything.
> Likewise, my son (if I ever have any) will be named Sebastian (since
> johann=John=Ioannis and that's already taken) :*)
That is good idea, I like the name John.
Zachary Uram
> >> Sybrand Bakker said:
> >>According to Boyd, Oxford Composer Companions, J.S. Bach, currently
> >>there
> >>are 15 descendants, of which the youngest was born in 1989. He doesn't
> >>discuss their musicality
I have this book and it doesn't indicate these are male bloodline
descendants. Again 15 claiming to be related to Bach are just
claims without hard proof. I have not seen any such proof. If you
have it I would love to see it. If there are any I would be very
surprised if they were of male bloodline. Possibly some from the
female bloodline exist.
Ioannis Galidakis
[snip]
> I have this book and it doesn't indicate these are male bloodline
> descendants. Again 15 claiming to be related to Bach are just
> claims without hard proof. I have not seen any such proof. If you
> have it I would love to see it. If there are any I would be very
> surprised if they were of male bloodline. Possibly some from the
> female bloodline exist.
Offtopic: I just remembered another book by him, which is pretty good:
"The Adventures of a Reluctant Messiah"
Whether or not Richard Bach is a direct descendant of JS, this was quite
interesting reading.
> Zach
Jur Snijder
should add :-) ) are very keen on JS Bach, but your sons may have a very
different taste in music. For them, having to live with a name like
Johann Sebastian may not make any sense and could well be an
embarassment.
My suggestion: change your *own* name to Johan Sebastian and find a less
contentious one for your kids.
Just my 2 penny worth....
JS (!)
Ioannis Galidakis
>
> What you people tend to forget is that you yourselves (and me as well, I
> should add :-) ) are very keen on JS Bach, but your sons may have a very
> different taste in music. For them, having to live with a name like
> Johann Sebastian may not make any sense and could well be an
> embarassment.
Undoubtedly. BUTT, there are usually environmental factors which
influence kids a lot. Pounding on Classical Music everyday at home when
you are a kid, naturally gives you something worth thinking about,
perhaps for the rest of your life. Then, it really depends on whether
you are a rebel or not. If you are a rebel and you have your
subsconscious stuffed with Classical, your music rebellion won't last
long, because you very soon discover the shallowness of other music. Not
all other music, but most of it, as your brain matures.
Seeing dad playing the piano, many times a day, is a good influence as
well. You start thinking, that perhaps, it would be nice to start
playing the piano yourself, so as to impress dad.
Then, having a good solid classical base, one day you discover the
beauty of a simple prelude by JS. I remember this very day. My piano
teacher wanted me to play BWV 999, but I was disappointed because i
loved #10. When she agreed, it was one of my happiest days of my life.
>
> My suggestion: change your *own* name to Johan Sebastian and find a less
> contentious one for your kids.
What a horrible thought: Having kids who don't like JSB music. I'd
rather not have any :*)
> Just my 2 penny worth....
>
> JS (!)
--
Virginia Smith
Ioannis Galidakis wrote:
>
> Jur Snijder wrote:
> >
> > What you people tend to forget is that you yourselves (and me as well, I
> > should add :-) ) are very keen on JS Bach, but your sons may have a very
> > different taste in music. For them, having to live with a name like
> > Johann Sebastian may not make any sense and could well be an
> > embarassment.
I don't see why a name like Johann Sebastian would be embarrassing. My
sister used to want to name her kids all kinds of strange things like
Lance and Heaven and Sky... much weirder than J.S. could ever be. I
have entertained the thought of havcing a son named Sebastian... or
maybe to meet a guy last name of Bach first.... being married always
helps when one is interested in having children. And I think it would
be cool to have a little family of Bachs :-)
>
> Undoubtedly. BUT, there are usually environmental factors which
> influence kids a lot. Pounding on Classical Music everyday at home when
> you are a kid, naturally gives you something worth thinking about,
> perhaps for the rest of your life. Then, it really depends on whether
> you are a rebel or not. If you are a rebel and you have your
> subsconscious stuffed with Classical, your music rebellion won't last
> long, because you very soon discover the shallowness of other music. Not
> all other music, but most of it, as your brain matures.
>
> Seeing dad playing the piano, many times a day, is a good influence as
> well. You start thinking, that perhaps, it would be nice to start
> playing the piano yourself, so as to impress dad.
I have to agree here and add that parents these days are so convinced
that they can't have an influence on their children. I can't iamgine
forcing my future kids to do or play anything, but I figure a little
gentle encouragement can go a long way. I must admit that my interest
in Bach is pretty independent of parental influence, but my mom always
encouraged me to listen to classical when she noticed that I was
interedsted in it. I remember being moved by Bach at a pretty young
age.
>
> Then, having a good solid classical base, one day you discover the
> beauty of a simple prelude by JS. I remember this very day. My piano
> teacher wanted me to play BWV 999, but I was disappointed because i
> loved #10. When she agreed, it was one of my happiest days of my life.
>
I started playing pretty late on and I can remember my simultaneous joy
and trepidation at pretty recently beginning the two part invention in
C. It's pretty neat to be able to play a thing I like to listen to so
well.
> >
> > My suggestion: change your *own* name to Johan Sebastian and find a less
> > contentious one for your kids.
>
> What a horrible thought: Having kids who don't like JSB music. I'd
> rather not have any :*)
Hear! Hear!
Well, actually, they will have to decide for themselves, but I have a
feeling mine will like Bach.
SDG
Virginia
Lolita
Virginia Smith <Virgini...@usm.edu> wrote in message
news:389744FE...@usm.edu...
>
>
> Ioannis Galidakis wrote:
> >
> > Jur Snijder wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > What a horrible thought: Having kids who don't like JSB music. I'd
> > rather not have any :*)
>
They heard him while they grew in my tummy for 9 months, and even today, 5-9
years later, they instantly calm down when I play anything by Bach.
My 9 year old son especially enjoys the Brandenburg Concertos.
:)
My ex husband, on the other hand, detested Bach, preferring instead to play
The Chemical Brothers or Silverchair.
Maybe that's part of the reason we split up!
HUMPH!
LSA
Ioannis Galidakis
[snip]
> My ex husband, on the other hand, detested Bach, preferring instead to play
> The Chemical Brothers or Silverchair.
> Maybe that's part of the reason we split up!
> HUMPH!
Ahh, the strange lessons of life!
If your ex-husband detested Bach, then you should have never married him
in the first place :*)
Seriously, I think that in the case of Bach devottees, there is a deeper
similarity and much more primitive connection between fans.
I won't go into religious argumentation, but with very few exceptions,
here, in the alt.music.j-s-bach newsgroup, almost everybody sounds like
they are seriously possessed by many higher virtues, many of which JS
himself would condone happily.
The case of JS, is unique in the respect that he presents you with some
ideals which are undoubtedly hard to push aside, whether those ideas are
religious or not. The important thing is that the whole "philosophy" of
Bach's music, in turn, makes your soul prettier.
Pushing the religious arguments aside (which *are* by themselves a very
strong argument for liking Bach), if only one reads a JS biography, and
understands what this man has gone through with in his entire life, is
enough to push one's ego to zero.
If I had the life of JS, I would have crashed, maybe before 38-40. There
is a very fine balance between obligation and hardship, and in the case
of Bach, it is, at least to me obvious that the only thing that kept him
going, amidst the thousands of disappointments and disasters, was his
sense of "obligation".
This obligation does not need to be exuberant, or show off, just a solid
internal foundation which one may consult in cases of emergency.
Barring the above, his religious devotion is actually compelling. If I
had Bach's mind, I would be thinking in much more self-centered and
egoistic ways. (Hell, I do it anyway, and I am not even close to his
mind's caliber :*)
The point being that if a man with such a mind could willfully adhere to
a certain belief mode, no matter how ridiculous this mode may have been
for the current atheist, or skeptic, it is food for thought, in terms of
our current chaotic ideals and frantic ego-centrism.
I firmly believe that the people who get attracted by Bach, perhaps
belong to a "special" elite of minds that have problems otherwise with
their own ego. Particularly in view of the fact that such people have
problems controlling their ego anyway.
In my case, Bach's music could easily be labelled a "catalyst" for
higher ideals. If Bach's creation did not exist, I would be an ingenious
serial killer. My own mind has gone so far out, that the only niche that
controls it effectivelly, now, is Bach's music. Not any other
discipline.
This presents the listener with an additional burden, one of eternal
gratitude, for this man, who has "saved" thousands of stray minds, like
mine, and did so, with infinite endurance, patience and love for what he
created, because the man "knew" in effect that the influence of
ego-centrism in some special cases is so intense, that one can easily
lose one's mind.
The very act of seeing such a brilliant mind, being in absolute control
of itself and under the aegis of Christ, was perhaps the ultimate sign
to me, that my mind, could, in effect, be controlled and put into useful
practices.
To conclude, even the people here who want to appear as "hardcore"
non-challanters, in effect share what I feel, and what most of the rest
here feel.
In a sense, seeing a group of people being fans of anything else, I find
ridiculous. Because society's standards have increased to such a chaotic
level, that nothing makes sense anymore. Yet, being a fan of Bach, gives
one a "special", "different" glow, that somehow MAKES sense.
I don't know if I am making myself clear, but I would like to conclude
with what a fellow mathematician professor, here at UC, fan of Bach,
remarked to me long time ago. We were discussing Bach's religious
influence on his fans, and at some point he said:
"But, he has saved many more than Christ himself".
Of course, this is a major exaggeration, but it clearly denotes the
power of his influence.
And whether religious or not, this influence is good, regardless.
(I can see some of the more solemn members of the group putting long
faces already :*)
Zachary Uram
good food for thought!
________________________________________________________
Sean Rodgers
before.
As he pointed out, though, I do think Bach's music has a deep effect on
some people. I remember first hearing the Passacaglia and Fugue in Cmin
when I was eight years old. That was the piece that introduced me to
Bach. It has never ceased to amaze me, and I still listen to it
frequently nowadays, ten years later.
For me, I originally preferred Bach's organ and instrumental
compositions to his religious ones, partly because I was introduced to
them first, and also because they sounded so....perfect, I don't know.
They left me with the feeling of being perfectly satisfied with myself,
something that I have rarely found elsewhere.
Sean Rodgers
<se...@home.com>
----
"We promise according to our hopes, and act according to our fears."
La Rouchefoucauld
jennifer....@gmail.com
Jennifer Künstler grandmütter Bach