Bach's Altos...
Brian Link
questions.
I observe two types of "alto" written for by Bach. One a mezzo-soprano
("Erbarme Dich"), the other more of an haute-contre ("Wiederstehe,
doch ihr Sunden"). The current continental tradition places alto lines
in the custody of boy altos. I therefore assume that the "mezzo" alto
soloist Bach had in mind was a boy, and perhaps the "haute-contre"
soloist a high tenor. Does this reflect current understanding? Is
there any evidence that Bach ever employed falsettists?
As a countertenor, I often find myself pressed into duty to perform
Bach as a nod to "authenticity". My own understanding is that there
were no falsettists in Bach's choirs, so I hope to either be proved
wrong, or to at least gain a better understanding of the character of
the voice I'm meant to represent.
Thanks for any info you can pass along.
BLink
Tom Hens
Brian Link <bl...@VectorInternetServicesIncorporated.com> wrote...
> Just wanted to poke my head in this specialist newsgroup and ask a few
> questions.
>
> I observe two types of "alto" written for by Bach. One a mezzo-soprano
> ("Erbarme Dich"), the other more of an haute-contre ("Wiederstehe,
> doch ihr Sunden"). The current continental tradition places alto lines
> in the custody of boy altos. I therefore assume that the "mezzo" alto
> soloist Bach had in mind was a boy, and perhaps the "haute-contre"
> soloist a high tenor. Does this reflect current understanding? Is
> there any evidence that Bach ever employed falsettists?
When Bach took up employment at the court of Weimar in 1708, he and his
wife moved into an apartment in the house of Adam Immanuel Weldig, who was
employed as a falsettist in the court chapel. So at least during his time
in Weimar the ensemble that performed his music included at least one
falsettist. During his time in Leipzig he obviously used boy altos from the
Tomasschule. (There are several examples of colla parte accompaniment in
soprano and alto arias in Leipzig cantatas, where an instrument simply
doubles the vocal line, and none with tenor or bass arias, which points to
a not-too-secure boy singer being given a bit of a helping hand.) Whether
or not adult falsettists (university students, for instance) were also used
isn't really known, to the best of my knowledge. My purely personal guess
would be that they probably were, given Bach's frustration over the lack of
singers I don't think he would have turned down any competent singer who
was willing to help out.
M. Slater
?
WILD EAGLE 1053: I am not a good speller
Meteorite52: how long is it ?
Mark
Beth Diane Garfinkel
Well, that depends. A "male alto" usualy implies an adult male
singing falsette. Apparently what Bach used wsa more likely to be a
pre-adolescent boy whose voice was on the low side. Some children do
have alto voices. My sister did as a little girl and by and large
still does, for example.
Beth
--
"Under the green wood tree/Who loves to lie with me/And tune his merry
note/Unto the sweet bird's throat/Come hither, come hither, come hither/
Here he shall see/No enemy/But winter and rough weather."
--William Shakespeare
Charles
message news:3fel8uc7gnkrrvam6...@4ax.com...
Joshua Rifkin, a reputed scholar regarding Bach's vocal forces, notes
that the churches at Leipzig used boys for the soprano, while boys and
perhaps young falsettists were used for the alto. This provides a
context for Bach's later religious works. Rifkin notes an important
exception, however, in relation to Bach's B minor Mass, since the
electoral chapel at Dresden appears to have had only adult singers,
castratos and women as sopranos. However, it remains uncertain as to
whether these women sang in church as well as in the opera.
Hope this helps somewhat.
Regards
Charles
Brian Link
"High Singing Males" is:
Falsettist: Baritone or Tenor singing primarily in falsetto (most
modern "countertenors" fit this description). UK/Continental technique
brings the falsetto down to the bottom notes, increasingly US and
Continental falsettists do more "mixing" of chest and falsetto (as I
do)
Male Alto: Same thing, but this term used more often in Europe
Countertenor: Very high tenor, singing mostly chest and head voice,
using falsetto at the extreme top (however more commonly used to
describe a falsettist in the UK and US.)
Haute Contre: Same thing as above. Occasionally falsettists are listed
as haute contres in francophonic countries.
Sopranist: Falsettist who can move above the soprano clef. Extremely
rarely this is an adult male whose voice has never changed for a
variety of reasons.
Castrato: snip snip
Boy Soprano/Alto: Singer whose voice has not changed or completed the
change.
BLink
On 10 Mar 2002 07:10:21 GMT, harpsic...@aol.comedy (M. Slater)
wrote:
Shaun Ng
It is really interesting that you note a, 'UK/Continental' and a
'US/Continental'. Correct me if I am wrong but does this mean that UK
singers tend to sing completely in head voice while US singers are 'allowed'
to mix with chest? This extraordinary.
If Bach did use falsettists or countertenors (or whatever terminology), I
think it's quite probably that one would need to learn to sing music as high
as erbarme dich or as low as widerstehe. Mind you widerstehe is not THAT low
considering it's meant to be done at Chorton. Don't forget that it was
written during the Weimar period, and the orchestra was more delicate, as
opposed to St. Matthews massive orchestra. There is probably a lot more
reason why it's really so low. The rhetoric in the text might explain
something.
I've never heard a hautecontre sing widerstehe, but I suspect it might not
work so well. IMHO, of course.
As professional working countertenors, one would need to sing them all. The
world is too competitive!
Sorry if you might already know all these facts.
"Brian Link" <bl...@VectorInternetServicesIncorporated.com> wrote in message
news:4e5n8u4n1ndla0fb5...@4ax.com...
Brian Link
wrote:
>Dear Brian,
>
>It is really interesting that you note a, 'UK/Continental' and a
>'US/Continental'. Correct me if I am wrong but does this mean that UK
>singers tend to sing completely in head voice while US singers are 'allowed'
>to mix with chest? This extraordinary.
Hm. As far as I know there are no alto police, so those brits can do
whatever they like. heh. However, the tradition is to bring the
complete falsetto down all the way. This is the style advocated by
Peter Giles in his book "The Countertenor", and audible in anglican
cathedrals and british "boy bands".
There really is no American countertenor tradition, so the singers
I've worked with stateside tend to experiment a little more.
>If Bach did use falsettists or countertenors (or whatever terminology), I
>think it's quite probably that one would need to learn to sing music as high
>as erbarme dich or as low as widerstehe.
This is a key question for me: Would Bach have written both those
works for the same individual singer? Or at least two singers with
similar techniques?
>Mind you widerstehe is not THAT low
>considering it's meant to be done at Chorton.
Still gives you low (a440) f#'s, iirc.. Lowest in Erbarme dich is
(a440) d above middle c. I need to glance at my scores again though..
>Don't forget that it was
>written during the Weimar period, and the orchestra was more delicate, as
>opposed to St. Matthews massive orchestra. There is probably a lot more
>reason why it's really so low. The rhetoric in the text might explain
>something.
>
>I've never heard a hautecontre sing widerstehe, but I suspect it might not
>work so well. IMHO, of course.
I wanna hear Paul Elliot sing it.. heh.
>As professional working countertenors, one would need to sing them all. The
>world is too competitive!
True enough - but as a director, I also get to make choices about
which singers to engage for a particular work - and when trying to
make "informed" decisions, do I find a boy, a woman, a tenor, or sing
it myself?
>Sorry if you might already know all these facts.
Some not all.. =) But I posted the original message in order to learn
something new, and you folks are all obliging!
BLink