What's the name of this piece in the Woodie Allen movie?

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Souled Out

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Sep 13, 2001, 11:48:10 PM9/13/01
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In the movie Woodie Allen movie, "Hannah and her Sisters", there is a scene
where Hannah's sister, Lee, sets the needle of her turntable on a recording
of beautiful harpsichord music, which Hannah's husband (rightly or wrongly)
identifies as "Bach - F Minor Concerto".

I would like to know (1) what the actual name of that piece is so that I can
track down a CD - whether or not it is Bach [I think it is], and (2) if
anyone knows of a specific recording where harpsichord is used (because I
have heard the same piece recorded with piano instead).

Thanks for any pointers in the right direction. :o)


Hell Spree

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Sep 14, 2001, 2:10:08 AM9/14/01
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It's probably the F minor Harpsichord Concerto, BWV 1056, second movement.
There are many, many recordings for harpsichord of that work. Kipnis is a good
one you might want to try--that's with Sir Neville Marriner on Sony.

Hell

http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Pit/9099/firehydrant.htm

Sybrand Bakker

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Sep 14, 2001, 5:10:39 AM9/14/01
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"Hell Spree" <hell...@aol.comspamthis> wrote in message
news:20010914021008...@mb-cm.aol.com...


I have a feeling Kipnis is playing one of those awful Neupert harpsichords.
Also the ASMF is probably playing in a too big disposition for this music
Better try the classic Leonhardt 1 to a part recording on Teldec.
I have multiple recordings of all harpsichord concertos and I still consider
this one as my reference record.

Regards,

Sybrand Bakker

John Harrington

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Sep 14, 2001, 10:40:18 AM9/14/01
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in article 9nsn81$9kjhf$1...@ID-62141.news.dfncis.de, Sybrand Bakker at
pos...@sybrandb.demon.nl wrote on 9/14/01 2:10 AM:

I've been quite disappointed by the Kipnis. Since we're on the subject of
early-HIP, I can't recommend Leppard too highly.


John


Christian Sonder

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Sep 14, 2001, 2:07:56 PM9/14/01
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Hi,

another very good recording is Christophe Rousset with the Academy of
Ancient Music.

cu
Christian


Tom Hens

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Sep 14, 2001, 4:59:02 PM9/14/01
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Hell Spree <hell...@aol.comspamthis> wrote...

> >In the movie Woodie Allen movie, "Hannah and her Sisters", there is a
> >scene where Hannah's sister, Lee, sets the needle of her turntable on
> >a recording of beautiful harpsichord music, which Hannah's husband
> >(rightly or wrongly) identifies as "Bach - F Minor Concerto".
> >
> >I would like to know (1) what the actual name of that piece is so that I
> >can track down a CD - whether or not it is Bach [I think it is], and (2)
> >if anyone knows of a specific recording where harpsichord is used
> >(because I have heard the same piece recorded with piano instead).
> >
> >Thanks for any pointers in the right direction. :o)
>
> It's probably the F minor Harpsichord Concerto, BWV 1056, second
> movement.

The Naxos catalogue, which has an occasionally useful list of "Classical
Music Used in Movies", confirms that educated guess.

Max Schmeder

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Sep 14, 2001, 10:35:38 PM9/14/01
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John Harrington <bear...@earthlink.net> wrote in message news:<B7C7639A.4DC%bear...@earthlink.net>...

Do you mean that as a compliment (as is usually meant by that phrase)
or the other way around? (you "can't recommend it too highly" because
it's simply not that good)

I never noticed that this phrase was an oxymoron...
Max

>
>
> John

John Harrington

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Sep 15, 2001, 12:36:28 AM9/15/01
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in article 3045101c.0109...@posting.google.com, Max Schmeder at
maxsc...@hotmail.com wrote on 9/14/01 7:35 PM:

I meant it as a compliment. I ignored the Leppard for years, never finding
much else he did of interest. On a whim, I bought the h concertos a few
months ago and was stunned by how good they were.


J


John Harrington

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Sep 15, 2001, 12:46:59 AM9/15/01
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in article 01c13d54$641f3ac0$LocalHost@gateway, Tom Hens at
tom....@iname.com.DELETE.THIS.BIT wrote on 9/14/01 1:59 PM:

If indeed it had been educated it wouldn't have been a guess, since Bach
wrote no other concertos in f minor--unless by guess you mean which
movement, but what is educated about that I don't know: they are each
"beautiful".

Incidentally, a quick internet search reveals it was the Leonhardt Consort
recording.


J


Hell Spree

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Sep 15, 2001, 2:16:35 AM9/15/01
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>Do you mean that as a compliment (as is usually meant by that phrase)
>or the other way around? (you "can't recommend it too highly" because
>it's simply not that good)
>
>I never noticed that this phrase was an oxymoron...
>Max

It's not an oxymoron but a negation, to be literarily exact. It's a device
used to mean the affirmative by stating the negative. During the Romantic
period, it was used to a great extent, basically to understate. Today, it
probably sounds confusing to us. Mendelssohn once wrote of Bach's 1052
concerto, "There was no end to the applause after the last work, and people
were so delighted that I am convinced not a single person liked it." When I
first hit upon that quotation, I was wondering why people in the Romantic
period didn't like the 1052 concerto, yet applaud it. But after thinking over
what Mendelssohn said, I figured he meant that many persons (not a single
person) liked the concerto.

Hell

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Souled Out

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Sep 15, 2001, 2:34:34 AM9/15/01
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"Souled Out" <nospam_i...@iname.com> wrote in message
news:_5fo7.1864$Ct1.77...@newssvr30.news.prodigy.com...

Thanks to everyone... Hell Spree, Sybrand Bakker, John Harrington, Max
Schmeder, Tom Hens, Christian Sonder, and whoever else might respond... for
not only identifying the piece, but confirming the identity *and* giving a
very interesting short list of harpsichord recordings that feature Bach's F


minor Harpsichord Concerto, BWV 1056, second movement.

I was particularly pleased to hear about the Naxos catalogue and its list of
"Classical
Music Used in Movies". Once in a while I find myself being introduced or
forming an early acquaintance with a certain classical piece through the
medium of film. It's nice to know there is a source to which I may refer,
making it easier to locate and know the piece more intimately.

Now - on to acquire the CD! ;o)


Tom Hens

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Sep 16, 2001, 9:30:33 PM9/16/01
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John Harrington <bear...@earthlink.net> wrote..

> If indeed it had been educated it wouldn't have been a guess, since Bach
> wrote no other concertos in f minor--unless by guess you mean which
> movement, but what is educated about that I don't know: they are each
> "beautiful".

The phrase "educated guess" means exactly what you're describing, at least
that's how I've always understood the term. Since you used "probably" it
seemed clear you hadn't heard it in the movie yourself, and were only going
on the report from the person who posted the question. Based on your
knowledge of Bach (that's the "educated" bit), you rightly assumed that
there was a very large probability of it being this particular piece
(that's the "guess" bit). Educated guesses by definition are usually right.

> Incidentally, a quick internet search reveals it was the Leonhardt
> Consort recording.

I never knew Woody Allen had such good taste.

John Harrington

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Sep 17, 2001, 1:41:09 AM9/17/01
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in article 01c13f17$419a1820$LocalHost@gateway, Tom Hens at
tom....@iname.com.DELETE.THIS.BIT wrote on 9/16/01 6:30 PM:

>
> John Harrington <bear...@earthlink.net> wrote..
>
>> If indeed it had been educated it wouldn't have been a guess, since Bach
>> wrote no other concertos in f minor--unless by guess you mean which
>> movement, but what is educated about that I don't know: they are each
>> "beautiful".
>
> The phrase "educated guess" means exactly what you're describing,

No it doesn't. If it were a guess (and it appears to have been), it wasn't
educated. If it were educated, it shouldn't have been a guess.

> at least
> that's how I've always understood the term. Since you used "probably" it
> seemed clear you hadn't heard it in the movie yourself, and were only going

See, this is the sort of thing that makes you come off as a clueless newbie,
because I never wrote "probably" in this thread, but you think I wrote
"probably" because you haven't learned how to parse attributions (hint: it
was Hell Spree, in the part you dishonestly snipped, who wrote "probably").

> on the report from the person who posted the question. Based on your
> knowledge of Bach (that's the "educated" bit), you rightly assumed that
> there was a very large probability of it being this particular piece

I assumed no such thing. I knew what it was. And the probability was 1.

> (that's the "guess" bit).

No it isn't!

> Educated guesses by definition are usually right.
>
>> Incidentally, a quick internet search reveals it was the Leonhardt
>> Consort recording.
>
> I never knew Woody Allen had such good taste.

Did you see the movie?


John


Hell Spree

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Sep 17, 2001, 2:08:16 AM9/17/01
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>(hint: it
>was Hell Spree, in the part you dishonestly snipped, who wrote "probably").
>

For the record, I used "probably" because I hadn't seen the movie and wasn't
completely sure if it really was a concerto by Bach at all. But giving the
benefit of a doubt that the original poster correctly heard the line in the
movie attributing the work to the composer, that it was a Bach concerto, I said
it was the 1056 concerto, and guessed that it was the second movement, since
that's the most "popular" movement of the concerto to most people who do not
listen to Bach with regularity. So "probably" wasn't indicating an uncertainty
as to which Bach concerto but to whether the concerto was even by Bach.

I'm sure this has cleared up everything.

Hell

http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Pit/9099/firehydrant.htm

Hell Spree

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Sep 17, 2001, 2:10:35 AM9/17/01
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>(hint: it
>was Hell Spree, in the part you dishonestly snipped, who wrote "probably").
>

And I don't think anyone has dishonestly snipped anything. When he said that
"you" wrote "probably," he was probably writing as most of us would speak
informally, using the pronoun "you" as we would normally use the more objective
word "one" in formal writing.

Hell

http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Pit/9099/firehydrant.htm

Tom Hens

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Sep 19, 2001, 2:42:32 AM9/19/01
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John Harrington <bear...@earthlink.net> wrote...

> in article 01c13f17$419a1820$LocalHost@gateway, Tom Hens at
> tom....@iname.com.DELETE.THIS.BIT wrote on 9/16/01 6:30 PM:
>
> >
> > John Harrington <bear...@earthlink.net> wrote..
> >
> >> If indeed it had been educated it wouldn't have been a guess, since
> >> Bach wrote no other concertos in f minor--unless by guess you mean
> >> which movement, but what is educated about that I don't know: they
> >> are each "beautiful".
> >
> > The phrase "educated guess" means exactly what you're describing,
>
> No it doesn't. If it were a guess (and it appears to have been), it
> wasn't educated. If it were educated, it shouldn't have been a guess.

Once again, you seem to be disputing the existence of the concept and term
"educated guess". Fine. Nobody's forcing you to use it. (Is this by any
chance a British idiom that Americans might be unfamiliar with?)

> > at least
> > that's how I've always understood the term. Since you used "probably"
> > it seemed clear you hadn't heard it in the movie yourself, and were
> > only going
>
> See, this is the sort of thing that makes you come off as a clueless
> newbie, because I never wrote "probably" in this thread, but you think I
> wrote "probably" because you haven't learned how to parse attributions
> (hint: it was Hell Spree, in the part you dishonestly snipped, who wrote
> "probably").

I know how to "parse" attributions, John (now there's a strange misuse of a
word). I made a mistake. Since you reacted so vehemently to nothing more
than my use of the commonly used and not at all pejorative term "educated
guess", I assumed I'd been responding to your post, and didn't go back in
the thread to check my assumption. It had been a few days, and there were
rather more important matters around than remembering every single post to
alt.music.j-s-bach. I'm sorry for this major, *major* faux-pas. It was what
is commonly called an "honest mistake". But I'm not sure whether you accept
the existence of such a thing anymore than you do that of an "educated
guess".

Just what you mean by the accusation that I "dishonestly" snipped anything,
I fail to understand. All that happened is that I mistakenly assumed that
you were the person who posted the educated guess about BWV 1056. I suppose
I could ask you for further clarification, but I sort of have the feeling
that wouldn't improve the situation much.

<rest snipped, knowingly and honestly, as per pretty pointless>

Tom Hens

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Sep 19, 2001, 2:42:30 AM9/19/01
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Hell Spree <hell...@aol.comspamthis> wrote...

> >(hint: it
> >was Hell Spree, in the part you dishonestly snipped, who wrote
> > "probably").
>
> For the record, I used "probably" because I hadn't seen the movie and
> wasn't completely sure if it really was a concerto by Bach at all. But
> giving the benefit of a doubt that the original poster correctly heard
> the line in the movie attributing the work to the composer,

And that, even correctly heard, the character in the movie got it right,
which of course isn't a given either.

> that it was a Bach concerto, I said it was the 1056 concerto, and
> guessed that it was the second movement, since that's the most
> "popular" movement of the concerto to most people who do not
> listen to Bach with regularity. So "probably" wasn't indicating an
> uncertainty as to which Bach concerto but to whether the concerto was
> even by Bach.

That's exactly what I thought too, why I described it as an "educated
guess", and why when I found the attribution in the Naxos list (which I
assume is based on information from people who've actually heard the pieces
listed in those movies), I thought I'd post it. If you'd written something
like "I know that movie, and it's BWV 1056, second movement" I wouldn't
have bothered. When John Harrington responded in the way he did, my usually
pretty good memory for things Usenet temporarily failed me and I got you
two confused. I'm sorry.

John Harrington

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Sep 19, 2001, 11:47:38 AM9/19/01
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in article 01c140d5$e4218be0$LocalHost@gateway, Tom Hens at
tom....@iname.com.DELETE.THIS.BIT wrote on 9/18/01 11:42 PM:

>
> John Harrington <bear...@earthlink.net> wrote...
>
>> in article 01c13f17$419a1820$LocalHost@gateway, Tom Hens at
>> tom....@iname.com.DELETE.THIS.BIT wrote on 9/16/01 6:30 PM:
>>
>>>
>>> John Harrington <bear...@earthlink.net> wrote..
>>>
>>>> If indeed it had been educated it wouldn't have been a guess, since
>>>> Bach wrote no other concertos in f minor--unless by guess you mean
>>>> which movement, but what is educated about that I don't know: they
>>>> are each "beautiful".
>>>
>>> The phrase "educated guess" means exactly what you're describing,
>>
>> No it doesn't. If it were a guess (and it appears to have been), it
>> wasn't educated. If it were educated, it shouldn't have been a guess.
>
> Once again, you seem to be disputing the existence of the concept and term
> "educated guess". Fine. Nobody's forcing you to use it. (Is this by any
> chance a British idiom that Americans might be unfamiliar with?)

Once again, you seem not to understand how, in this case, if Hell Spree's
reply were a "guess", it was not "educated", and if it had been "educated"
it shouldn't have been, in this case, a "guess". The term "educated guess",
at least in the states, refers to things which, even to educated people, are
uncertain and therefore need to be guessed at. For example, if someone
asked me which American president was assassinated on 11/22/63, my reply
would not be an "educated guess", because if it were a "guess", it wouldn't
be "educated", and if it were "educated" there would be no need to "guess".
On the other hand, if a historian or archeologist were asked which culture
first developed iron smelting, his or her reply would indeed be an educated
guess.

And I bet you *still* don't get it.

John

<tom's heartfelt apology snipped>


Sybrand Bakker

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Sep 19, 2001, 12:35:30 PM9/19/01
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"John Harrington" <bear...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:B7CE0AD4.394%bear...@earthlink.net...

May we now know your IQ as to settle
a ) you are more intelligent than any one else in this group, so you are the
perfect person to label anyone who doesn't agree with your thoughts as
'stupid' and 'moron' (I admit you didn't use those words, but you are
clearly humiliating Tom Hens, and it is your explicit intention to do so)
b) You fall in the category 'arrogant beyond any conceivable measure'

Regards,

Sybrand Bakker

Hell Spree

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Sep 19, 2001, 1:19:05 PM9/19/01
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>That's exactly what I thought too, why I described it as an "educated
>guess", and why when I found the attribution in the Naxos list (which I
>assume is based on information from people who've actually heard the pieces
>listed in those movies), I thought I'd post it.

And even the Naxos catalogue isn't always right on when it comes to this stuff.
It lists the Bach piece played in *Schindler's List* as the Bouree from the
second English Suite when it's really the Prelude.

If you'd written something
>like "I know that movie, and it's BWV 1056, second movement" I wouldn't
>have bothered. When John Harrington responded in the way he did, my usually
>pretty good memory for things Usenet temporarily failed me and I got you
>two confused. I'm sorry.

Yeah, you'd better be sorry. The way Mr. Harrington is going about all this, I
would be offended if someone were to confuse my posts with his.

Hell

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John Harrington

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Sep 19, 2001, 10:44:48 PM9/19/01
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in article 9oahoe$bsb9d$2...@ID-62141.news.dfncis.de, Sybrand Bakker at
pos...@sybrandb.demon.nl wrote on 9/19/01 9:35 AM:
<snip bald-faced lies and clumsy insults>
> ...you are clearly humiliating Tom Hens...

I know.


John

GERLO

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Sep 20, 2001, 1:35:13 PM9/20/01
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That is the Concerto in Italian Style BWV.971 for harpsichord; it was
recorded on harpsichord by David Moroney (Virgin) Ton Koopman (Erato) Trevor
Pinnock (Archiv) Gustav Leonhardt (on RCA and DHM) and Kenneth Gilbert on
(Harmonia Mundi) and many others, but I can recommend one of these.
Cheers,
André

"Souled Out" <nospam_i...@iname.com> wrote in message
news:_5fo7.1864$Ct1.77...@newssvr30.news.prodigy.com...

Hell Spree

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Sep 20, 2001, 3:52:14 PM9/20/01
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>That is the Concerto in Italian Style BWV.971 for harpsichord; it was
>recorded on harpsichord by David Moroney (Virgin) Ton Koopman (Erato) Trevor
>Pinnock (Archiv) Gustav Leonhardt (on RCA and DHM) and Kenneth Gilbert on
>(Harmonia Mundi) and many others, but I can recommend one of these.
>Cheers,
>André
>"Souled Out" <nospam_i...@iname.com> wrote in message
>news:_5fo7.1864$Ct1.77...@newssvr30.news.prodigy.com...
>> In the movie Woodie Allen movie, "Hannah and her Sisters", there is a
>scene
>> where Hannah's sister, Lee, sets the needle of her turntable on a
>recording
>> of beautiful harpsichord music, which Hannah's husband (rightly or
>wrongly)
>> identifies as "Bach - F Minor Concerto".
>>

The Italian Concerto is in F major, not F minor, unless you're going by having
seen the film.

Hell

http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Pit/9099/firehydrant.htm

Max Schmeder

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Oct 4, 2001, 1:38:53 PM10/4/01
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interesting.

hell...@aol.comspamthis (Hell Spree) wrote in message news:<20010915021635...@mb-ck.aol.com>...

magg...@gmail.com

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Apr 26, 2018, 10:46:35 PM4/26/18
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you are clearly humiliating Tom Hens...
>
> I know.
>
>
> John

My goodness. Who would have thought such an innocent question could result in such vitriol. There are obviously some world leaders among all this. One of you isn't Donald Trump incognito I suppose?
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