Warning about Sam Ash's Return Policy
Rootworker
Last week I ordered a Yamaha GO46 audio interface from Sam Ash. In the past
I've dealt with Musician's Friend, ZZounds, and SameDay Music, and never had
any cause to complain. This time I went to Sam Ash only because they were
the only ones who had the item I wanted in stock.
When I received the item, I discovered that it has been misreprepresented.
In particular, it is advertised as being a 4-in/6-out unit, when in fact, it
only supports recording on 2 simultaneous channels. Today I contacted Sam
Ash, and they flatly refused to take it back.
If this is the way they do business, I will certainly never buy as much as a
guitar pick from them in the future. I think others will be well advised to
keep their return policy in mind before buying anything from a company with
such shoddy customer suppor.
Jim Carr
There's gotta be more to the story. On their website it's pretty clear
to me that only records two channels at one time, so that part of your
story is wrong.
Laurence Payne
>There's gotta be more to the story. On their website it's pretty clear
>to me that only records two channels at one time, so that part of your
>story is wrong.
From the Sam Ash website:
Multi-channel output/input with FireWire™ (IEEE1394)
The GO46 delivers 4-in/6-out multi-channel audio by simple one-cable
FireWire™ (IEEE1394) connection to a computer.
Further down the page:
Simultaneous Recording 2 Analog, 2 Digital.
So it IS 4-in, but two of them don't have ADCs.
Mike Rieves
"Rootworker" <mand...@rootwerx.com> wrote in message
news:13o4n1v...@corp.supernews.com...
"We truly appreciate your business and want you to be happy with your
purchase. Every item we sell is new and covered by the full manufacturer?s
warranty. If for any reason you are not completely satisfied with any item,
return it within 45 days of the shipping date for a complete refund of the
merchandise price! Please do not accept any shipment if the packaging
appears damaged in any way. We strongly suggest that you check your order
after receiving it to be sure that it is in proper working order. Returned
items must be in resalable condition. Resalable Condition means that the
product(s) is exactly in the same condition as you received it. All
exchanges must be pre-paid, returned in original packing, complete with
blank warranty cards, owner?s manual and show no sign of wear or abuse. In
the event that the product is not in the same condition as you received it
you may be subject to a minimum 15% restocking fee, repair charge or
disqualification. Shipping and handling charges are non-refundable. Please
call our Customer Service department at 1-800-472-6274 for an RA number and
instructions before returning any items. Customer Service is open 24 hours a
day, 7 days a week. No returns past 45 days. CDs, DVDs, video tapes, sheet
music, books, strings, computer hardware/software, drum heads, harmonicas,
mouthpieces, sound cards, microphones, raw speakers, studio furniture, blank
CDs/Tapes or Special Orders are not covered by this return policy."
If you complied with all the conditions listed above, you should have had no
problem with the return. Are they saying that it comes under the heading of
computer hardware? Technically, I suppose it is, but computer hardware
return restrictions usually only apply to internally installed hardware. If
that isn't the case, was it a special order?
One of my best friends has dealt with Sam Ash for years, and he's never had
any problems with returns. I think you need to clarify the situation. What
specific reason did they give for not accepting the return?
Sacramento Dave
"Laurence Payne" <NOSPAMlpayne1ATdsl.pipex.com> wrote in message
news:6385o3lvr1a72m59q...@4ax.com...
>
>>There's gotta be more to the story. On their website it's pretty clear
>>to me that only records two channels at one time, so that part of your
>>story is wrong.
>
> From the Sam Ash website:
>
> The GO46 delivers 4-in/6-out multi-channel audio by simple one-cable
>
>
> Further down the page:
>
> Simultaneous Recording 2 Analog, 2 Digital.
>
> So it IS 4-in, but two of them don't have ADCs.
If you read the whole description it dose seem confusing to a novice like me
.
http://www.samash.com/catalog/showitem.asp?itemid=57277&sourcetype=singleitemsearch
Now the one that starts with "Mic/line input combo" sounds like just two
channels can be recorded. Well being new at computer recording and having
mbox mini It took me no time to figure out I need a power mixer
Rootworker
vendors would go the extra yard to make sure the customer is satisfied, and
to avoid bad feelings/press. Obviously, Sam Ash doesn't give a damn about
that. As anyone who has visited my site can see, I spent a LOT of money on
musical gear, and you can rest assured that not another dime will ever go to
Sam Ash.
Sacramento Dave
a couple of guys that seem to no what there talking about They got me set up
pretty well. I had some problems with some programs and hardware they let me
return them so it's worked well for me. I started with something like this
http://www.guitarcenter.com/Digidesign-Mbox-2-Mini-Recording-Bundle-702525-i1177445.gc.
But this has led to a 20" Mac.( my PC has XP media pro tools dose not
support it) more mic's. Power mixer. I don't know if your just trying to
get started in PC recording but buying a package deal might be the answers
Rootworker
looking at the descripton on their website, they agree that the item was
misrepresented, and have agreed to issue a return authorizaton. (Don't know
if my complaint to the Better Business Bureau had anything to do with it.)
So . . . my faith in humanity is restored, and I'm suitably chastized do
better research before I buy in the future.
Jim Carr
You still haven't told us the reason they gave you for not accepting the
return in the first place. On paper they seem to have a pretty liberal
policy, so why did they tell you no?
Nil
alt.music.home-studio:
> You still haven't told us the reason they gave you for not
> accepting the return in the first place. On paper they seem to
> have a pretty liberal policy, so why did they tell you no?
"CDs, DVDs, video tapes, sheet music, books, strings, computer
Jim Carr
Is that what they told him? That his firewire device falls under either
the computer hardware/software or sound cards categories?
Nil
alt.music.home-studio:
>> "CDs, DVDs, video tapes, sheet music, books, strings, computer
>> hardware/software, drum heads, harmonicas, mouthpieces, sound
>> cards, microphones, raw speakers, studio furniture, blank
>> CDs/Tapes or Special Orders are not covered by this return
>> policy."
>
> Is that what they told him? That his firewire device falls under
> either the computer hardware/software or sound cards categories?
I don't know what they told him, but this device falls into all three
categories.
Jim Carr
But at the same time it doesn't. My digital camera and video camera plug
into my computer, but I don't consider either to be computer hardware.
My Zoom H4 also plugs into my computer and could conceivably be
considered a sound card, but I don't consider it to be either.
Since the OP's product comes with Cubase LE, that's pretty clearly
software. But that's bundled software and not a very important part of
the purchase. That's kinda iffy to me.
I think Sam Ash and other companies with similar policies should note if
a particular item falls under their "exceptions" category. Zzounds.com
appears to do this to some degree. In this case they would have accepted
the return according to their website: http://www.zzounds.com/item--YAMGO46
But they wouldn't accept a harmonica and say as much:
http://www.zzounds.com/item--HOH560
Mike Rieves
"Nil" <rednoi...@REMOVETHIScomcast.net> wrote in message
news:Xns9A1F9D97...@216.196.97.136...
actually is installed inside the computer. "Sound cards" means internally
installed sound cards, and "software" means software purchased by itself,
hardware that comes with software drivers, etc, is not considered software.
Hardware that is connected to a computer via USB, Firewire, etc, is not
considered as "computer hardware". The reason for excluding internally
installed computer hardware should be obvious, if it has to be installed, it
can be mis-installed and damaged, so most return policies don't include it.
However just plugging in hardware via USB or Firewire isn't likely to damage
anything, so that hardware is returnable at virtually all major stores.
I still think there is more to the story than rootworker is telling, and
would like to hear the full story.
Nil
alt.music.home-studio:
> Actually, it doesn't. Generally, "computer hardware" means
> hardware that actually is installed inside the computer. "Sound
> cards" means internally installed sound cards, and "software"
> means software purchased by itself, hardware that comes with
> software drivers, etc, is not considered software. Hardware that
> is connected to a computer via USB, Firewire, etc, is not
> considered as "computer hardware".
So says you. I disagree with all the above. But it doesn't matter
what we think, It matters what Sam Ash thinks.
> I still think there is more to the story than rootworker is
> telling, and would like to hear the full story.
I think he has clarified his story several times already.
Nil
alt.music.home-studio:
> But at the same time it doesn't. My digital camera and video
> camera plug into my computer, but I don't consider either to be
> computer hardware. My Zoom H4 also plugs into my computer and
> could conceivably be considered a sound card, but I don't consider
> it to be either.
This device is specifially a USB analog-to-digital I/O device for a
computer. It has no other purpose. I consider it to be both a "sound
card" and "computer hardware". And if he broke the seal on the Cubase
envelope, that would be another reason they might decline a return.
Sam Ash was being to rigid about it, though. I'm glad the OP reported
that he finally twisted their arms enough that they took it back.
Jim Carr
He only followed up once to tell us they took the return. He didn't tell
us why they rejected it in the first place - we're assuming it had
something to do with it being computer hardware or a sound card.
Their site doesn't say they will not accept returns on those items. It
says that those items are exceptions. We don't know what their policy is
on those items or the reasons behind it.
We can guess, though. A strict and reasonable definition of computer
hardware (but not the only reasonable definition) could be something
that is plugged into the motherboard - a PCI card, for example. In that
case I can see not wanting returns because of the labor involved in
testing the returned item. A peripheral (USB, firewire, serial/parallel
port) is much easier to test. That gives them some wiggle room, though
shame on them for not specifically noting that the item fell into the
exception category.
I think a more likely reason for not wanting unfettered returns on those
items is that people will "borrow" them for a project, then return them.
That's a money-losing proposition. People used to do that all the time.
To me it's relevant to know how long the guy had it before he asked for
a return. If calls them the day after receiving it, I think it's
reasonable to assume he's not just borrowing it. If he waited three
weeks, then I think Sam Ash has a reasonable position.
The guy is also a bonehead. He said the ad was misleading. It's NOT
misleading. It may be a little confusing to the inexperienced, but it
VERY CLEARLY stated in the specs what kind of I/O it had. There's no way
you can call an ad misleading when it contains 100% of the information
needed to make a decision. Poorly written? Maybe. But not misleading.
He was wrong about the ad. He as wrong to post a negative message about
Sam Ash claiming the ad was misleading. He was also wrong to file a
complaint with the BBB.
Mike Rieves
"Nil" <rednoi...@REMOVETHIScomcast.net> wrote in message
> On 08 Jan 2008, "Mike Rieves" <mr...@hotspam.com> wrote in
> alt.music.home-studio:
>
>> Actually, it doesn't. Generally, "computer hardware" means
>> hardware that actually is installed inside the computer. "Sound
>> cards" means internally installed sound cards, and "software"
>> means software purchased by itself, hardware that comes with
>> software drivers, etc, is not considered software. Hardware that
>> is connected to a computer via USB, Firewire, etc, is not
>> considered as "computer hardware".
>
> So says you. I disagree with all the above. But it doesn't matter
> what we think, It matters what Sam Ash thinks.
Disagree all you want, as you say, it's what Sam Ash thinks, and Sam Ash
think the same way I do. Ask them if you don't believe me.
>> I still think there is more to the story than rootworker is
>> telling, and would like to hear the full story.
>
> I think he has clarified his story several times already.
No, he hasn't, he said they refused to take the item back without giving any
reason, then he said they'd agreed to take it bact, again without giving any
reason. That is not clarification.
Mike Rieves
"Jim Carr" <newsg...@azwebpages.com> wrote in message
news:dH9hj.59642$Rf5....@newsfe13.phx...
In any case, I'm a bit suspicious because he never gave a reason for their
refusal to take the item back. Folks who are evasive on things like that
usually are trying to hide something.
Nil
alt.music.home-studio:
> Disagree all you want, as you say, it's what Sam Ash thinks, and
> Sam Ash think the same way I do. Ask them if you don't believe me.
Go drum up a phony controversy with someone else. I don't have time for
your tiresome games.
Laurence Payne
wrote:
>In any case, I'm a bit suspicious because he never gave a reason for their
>refusal to take the item back. Folks who are evasive on things like that
>usually are trying to hide something.
He told us long back. When we were discussing the advertising that
started with "4-in, 6-out" but further down the page revealed that
didn't mean quite what you might have thoght it did :-)
Jim Carr
That wasn't the reason Sam Ash refused to take it back. That was the
reason *he* wanted to return it claiming they mislead him. He never told
us why Sam Ash initially refused to accept the return.
Laurence Payne
<newsg...@azwebpages.com> wrote:
>> He told us long back. When we were discussing the advertising that
>> started with "4-in, 6-out" but further down the page revealed that
>> didn't mean quite what you might have thoght it did :-)
>
>That wasn't the reason Sam Ash refused to take it back. That was the
>reason *he* wanted to return it claiming they mislead him. He never told
>us why Sam Ash initially refused to accept the return.
Wasn't that because it was classed as either computer hardware or a
soundcard? Something that seems reasonable to everyone except Porky.
They then relented due to the misleading description. If an early
statement offers "4-in, 6-out" that should be true, not negated by
subsequent detail.
Jim Carr
The guy never told us the reason, which is what annoys me. If you're
gonna bitch about a company, give us the details. Don't make us read
their policies and try to interpret them.
As for the description, it *is* a 4-in, 6-out device. Go read the ad
yourself.
http://www.samash.com/catalog/showitem.asp?itemid=57277
I don't find it misleading. I understood exactly what I was getting.
Could a newbie without a clue be confused? Of course. It's not up to the
advertisers to give a short course in audio I/O with a computer.
I think the guy is way off base with his claim of it being misleading.
But absent a good reason to the contrary, Sam Ash should allow the guy
to return it. If only we knew why they refused.
As for Porky, he followed me over to alt.guitar.bass, where he rapidly
made friends like he did here. I finally put him in a kill-file (my
first in 12 years). He said he was doing the same for me and another
guy. Only now it seems we're out of his kill-file. Lord, help us.
Vince Schaefer
He was wrong about the ad. He was wrong to post a negative message about
this thread)
More diplomatic I think to come in and ask newsgroups' opinion without
the the sensational and bold: 'Warning' message or better yet to have
researched (possibly with the groups help) the buy beforehand.
And, he did evade answering the question......I figured from the first
post, though he didn't say so, that he installed the software (which means
he opened the envelope that says once opened there are no returns) and it
was based on this that SA wanted to follow the fair policy they hold all
customers to. It took the caller a while to figure out it wouldn't do what
he thought. He either installed it, or it took too long before deciding
return..
SA has been around a long time. Personally never had a problem. Worked
with many schools that used them. Returns were always a breeze. Even when I
ordered the wrong thing.
Vince
"Nil" <rednoi...@REMOVETHIScomcast.net> wrote in message
news:Xns9A2210D9...@216.196.97.136...
Mike Rieves
Most music stores define "computer hardware" as hardware that is installed
inside the computer, and "sound cards" as cards that plug in slots inside
the computer. Things that plug in externally, via USB, Firewire, etc are not
considered as "computer hardware". I'm certain that Sam Ash is no different
because I had a friend who dealt with them on a regular basis. I know that
he returned at least one USB midi interface, and at least one Firewire sound
module, and he never had an issue with them. You could call or email them to
check if you doubt me.
The guy never gave a reason for Sam Ash's refusal to accept a return,
period. We asked him more than once and he never answered.
Mike Rieves
"Nil" <rednoi...@REMOVETHIScomcast.net> wrote in message
I didn't start this, I'm not drumming up anything, and I'm not playing
games. What I said was correct. Ask Sam Ash if you don't believe me.