[HAM] R-Series Vibrato Fix
Bob Beckman
disapointed to learn it does not have a real vibrato like the spinets. Is
there any way to take parts from a T-582 and add vibrato or any other way to
add it?
The internal Leslie is too slow on slow and too fast on fast to sound like
vibrato.
Any suggestions would be appreciated.
thanks
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ken.churchill
Most Hammonds use a scanner to create the vibrato. This is coupled to
the generator and designed according to the speed etc. A mammoth task
to design for the R series. You could however break up a model L100
and use the Vibrato line box amplifier as a complete unit.
With a bit of wiring for switches, it could work. Best of luck.
Ken Churchill ( Eng UK)
Magnus Enorson
> You could however break up a model L100 and use
> the Vibrato line box amplifier as a complete unit. With a bit of
> wiring for switches, it could work.
This is the first time in my life, when I have heard anyone speak in favor
of the L-100 vibrato, and I don't understand why ;-)
No, seriously: wouldn't it be wonderful if someone actually enjoyed the
vibrato sound of the L-100s? It has been dissed by so many people for
so many years that I feel it's about time someone stood up for these
little boxes. So let's go, L-100 fans... and I'll just sit back and enjoy the
ride.
/Mag
Ian Hooper
easily removed - and thrown away :)
Some time ago, Mike Fulk assisted me with the transplantation of some
T-series vibrato parts into my L100, shortly thereafter the original
saturable reactor circuit of the L100 was used for parts (actually gutted
and converted into an overdrive amp).
The L100 vibrato circuit, although elegant and quite ingenious in design
sounds rather sterile to my ear, reminiscent of organs where a top octave
gen is modulated. It lack the "shimmer" and "warmth" of the
electro-mechanical delay-line/scanner system, with all its inherent
nonlinearalities.
Then again, when I used to drink to excess, I kinda liked that L100 vib,
reminded me of my N322 - <<VBG>>
ian
Ted Lever
years ago of replacing a very rough M-100 by a showroom condition L-100
because the L-100 looked so much better in the lounge of my house. Sadly, I
found out too late that the L-100 vibrato is dire and dreadfully thin
compared with the richness of the scanner vibrato.
The M-100 went to the local black church, where it carried on for about ten
years giving excellent service. I often heard it played gospel-style, played
much better than I ever could play it.
I thought about fitting scanner vibrato to the L-100 but stopped when I
realised it would be difficult to fit the scanner assembly to the existing
L-100 drive shaft, and also guessed that the rotation speed would be
different. So I gave up on this, and got an external Leslie instead (760).
This made up for the lack of scanner vibrato on the L-100, and to this day I
have never again switched on that dreaded L-100 vibrato!
Ted
"Ian Hooper" <no...@home.com> wrote in message
news:mailman.10081315...@zeni.net...
sdiedr...@mail.emagic.de
>I thought about fitting scanner vibrato to the L-100 but stopped when I
>realised it would be difficult to fit the scanner assembly to the existing
>L-100 drive shaft, and also guessed that the rotation speed would be
>different. So I gave up on this, and got an external Leslie instead (760).
>This made up for the lack of scanner vibrato on the L-100, and to this day I
>have never again switched on that dreaded L-100 vibrato!
>
>Ted
>
Hi Ted,
on ebay, there are always parts that can be used to replace the vibrato amp.
Actually, I found a H100 vibrato line ( these are two delay lines!)
and a few days ago, there was a run motor with the pot type scanner,
that one can found on later T-series organs. Actually, there's just a
run motor without scanner.These parts would fit in the L-100
generator, they all have the same self starting motor, which runs
with 1800rpm.
Watch ebay, sometimes it's worth it.
Regards,
--
Steffan Diedrichsen
DSP developer
emagic GmbH
Ted Lever
----- Original Message -----
From: <sdiedr...@mail.emagic.de>
Newsgroups: alt.music.hammond-organ
To: <ham...@zeni.net>
Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2001 10:17 PM
Subject: Re: [HAM] R-Series Vibrato Fix
>
> Hi Ted,
>
> on ebay, there are always parts that can be used to replace the vibrato
amp.
> Actually, I found a H100 vibrato line ( these are two delay lines!)
> and a few days ago, there was a run motor with the pot type scanner,
> that one can found on later T-series organs. Actually, there's just a
> run motor without scanner.These parts would fit in the L-100
> generator, they all have the same self starting motor, which runs
> with 1800rpm.
> Watch ebay, sometimes it's worth it.
>
> Regards,
> --
> Steffan Diedrichsen
>
> DSP developer
>
> emagic GmbH
> --
> Subscription Options/Unsubscribe/Archives: http://www.zeni.net/hf/
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> This mailing list is exported to the usenet group alt.music.hammond-organ.
>
> Hi Steffan,
Thanks for your advice. I will look out for separate scanner parts as you
suggest. There may be a problem as I live in the UK, where the frequency of
the mains supply is 50 Hz. This means that my L-100 motor runs at 1500 rpm,
so I would need to make sure that the scanner is suitable at this speed. I
thought that the shaft rotation speed of the scanner was slower, like
approximately 400 rpm. Therefore I did not think it was possible to use the
L-100 motor directly.
Regards,
Ted
Michael Fulk
run motor on Hammond Organs. The T-xx series used a belt from a pully on
the run motor to turn the vibrato scanner. Other Hammonds used a gear, (not
able to be seen by the naked eye; scanner must be dismantled).
Mike
>I thought that the shaft rotation speed of the scanner was slower, >SNIP.
Therefore I did not think it was possible to use the
> L-100 motor directly.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ted Lever" <ted....@ntlworld.com>
To: <ham...@zeni.net>
Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2001 2:34 PM
Subject: Re: [HAM] R-Series Vibrato Fix
>
> Thanks for your advice. I will look out for separate scanner parts as you
> suggest. There may be a problem as I live in the UK, where the frequency
of
> the mains supply is 50 Hz. This means that my L-100 motor runs at 1500
rpm,
> so I would need to make sure that the scanner is suitable at this speed.
I
> thought that the shaft rotation speed of the scanner was slower, like
> approximately 400 rpm. Therefore I did not think it was possible to use
the
> L-100 motor directly.
>
> Regards,
>
> Ted
> >
>
Michael Fulk
Subject: Re: [HAM] R-Series Vibrato Fix
> Hi Ted,
>
> on ebay, there are always parts that can be used to replace the vibrato
amp.
> Actually, I found a H100 vibrato line ( these are two delay lines!)
(SNIP)
The H-1xx series actually have *three* vibrato lines........two that are
electrically hooked together to constitute one 32-section vibrato line,
(needed because frequencies on H-1xx series go to approx. 8,000Hz rather
than approx. 6,000Hz, as on all tone-wheel Hammonds[except G-100, X-66 and
X-77]................and one "celeste" vibrato line for slow phase shifting
on these instruments.
Mike
Ian Hooper
I used fit directly into the TG/motor bracket, all that was needed was a
couple nuts 'n bolts (and the appropriate expletives). The drive and
recovery amps for the vib assy' are on one small pcb - very simple hookup.
The scanner is belt driven from the motor shaft opposite the actual
tonewheels. Adapting the older "pancake" shaped scanner would be a lot
trickier. (read; gears)
As an aside: after adding the T-series vib to my L100, I played around with
changing the speed by means of adjusting the size of the pullies (good ole
duct tape and o-rings!), I also attached a completely seperate run
motor/scanner assembly from an m3. That setup managed to produce some very
luxurious, glassy chorus effects, though it was a massive tangle of wires
and a PITA to switch. If I recall correctly, I eventually made small
pc-board to mount a couple 6-pole relays instead of the basic mechanical
switch.
This same L100 also has the option of attaching an external chorus-TG via
50-pin scsi cable. With both that, and the two vib-lines/scanners, the sound
was remarkably string-like, nothing like a regular organ. Did I mention that
the upper manual had full foldback installed too? Sheesh! Thanks Mike, that
was some week!
ian
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ted Lever" <ted....@ntlworld.com>
To: <ham...@zeni.net>
Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2001 17:34
Subject: Re: [HAM] R-Series Vibrato Fix
> > Hi Steffan,
>
> Thanks for your advice. I will look out for separate scanner parts as you
> suggest. There may be a problem as I live in the UK, where the frequency
of
> the mains supply is 50 Hz. This means that my L-100 motor runs at 1500
rpm,
> so I would need to make sure that the scanner is suitable at this speed.
I
> thought that the shaft rotation speed of the scanner was slower, like
> approximately 400 rpm. Therefore I did not think it was possible to use
the
> L-100 motor directly.
>
> Regards,
>
> Ted
> >
>
sdiedr...@mail.emagic.de
>
>Thanks for your advice. I will look out for separate scanner parts as you
>suggest. There may be a problem as I live in the UK, where the frequency of
>the mains supply is 50 Hz. This means that my L-100 motor runs at 1500 rpm,
>so I would need to make sure that the scanner is suitable at this speed. I
>thought that the shaft rotation speed of the scanner was slower, like
>approximately 400 rpm. Therefore I did not think it was possible to use the
>L-100 motor directly.
>
>Regards,
>
>Ted
>>
>
The later Scanners are driven with belt, so changing the pulley will
enable you to use the L-100 motor.
Another option: for my CV I've done a electronic scanner, that works
not too bad. Generally it works with 2 8to1 multiplexer ICs.Their
outputs are crossfaded with a VCA circuit. If I find time, I scan the
circuit.
Michael Fulk
Early models of the T-1xx series and also the H-1xx series had their vibrato
scanners mounted at the end of the generator where the start motor...if it
had been needed......would usually be mounted.
The scanners on the early H-1xx series were called "box-scanners" because of
their shape, and were notoriously unreliable.
The early T-1[2-3-4-5-]xx series had a conventional looking scanner mounted
on them at the same end.
On both scanners the generator drive shaft turned an internal gear.
I was wrong.
FWIW, I am the only person I know who has successfully repaired the
"box-type" scanners. (I repaired them because I wanted an operational 32
section scanner.) I must have *some* company out there.........anyone want
to chime in on box scanners?
Sincerely,
Mike
P.S. I also have put an H-100 generator with scanners in my X-77. As I
have two tone cabinets, I tried celeste and dual vibrato......altogether, it
stunk using the X-77P and X-77L speakers I had.
Single phase vibrato though, as I presume you did, was fine.
----- Original Message -----
From: <wjoh...@colusanet.com>
To: <strange...@earthlink.net>
Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2001 10:28 PM
Subject: Re: [HAM] R-Series Vibrato Fix
> Hi Mike,
>
> Your post makes me wonder, did some of the T- series organs
> drive the vibrato scanner from the TG shaft at the end away from
> the motor instead of by a belt, or did I run into something unusual?
> I recently parted out a T-243 and the scanner was driven from the
> TG shaft. It appeared to be a standard organ with no mods.
>
> I have installed the scanner, line box and drive/recovery board in
> my X-77. The X-77 TG had the mounting holes for the scanner in
> place and even tapped. The correct drive flange was also in place
> on the TG shaft. It was a little tight to install but not too bad. After
> installation there is still about a half-inch clearance from the
> scanner to the case.
>
> Just curious,
>
> Wayne
>
>
> On 12 Dec 2001, at 16:29, Michael Fulk wrote:
>
> > You are correct, Ted. The vibrato scanner was never driven directly by
the
> > run motor on Hammond Organs. The T-xx series used a belt from a pully
on
> > the run motor to turn the vibrato scanner. Other Hammonds used a gear,
(not
> > able to be seen by the naked eye; scanner must be dismantled).
> > Mike
>
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