Vintage Metal-Bodied Resonators...Better? Why?
chetatkinsdiet
throw a question out there. I realize that there are those for and
against the whole vintage is better argument when it comes to
instruments...drums, acoustic guitar, electric guitars, etc. I would
think that most of us agree with the fact that when speaking of wooden
instruments, the woods were better, different, have
mellowed...whatever the reason...older acoustic guitars are unique.
Electrics...a different animal. Some think that 50s or 50s electrics
were magical, but to be honest, you can just about copy a "classic"
guitar and get a very close match. A lot closer than you can come to
a pre-war Martin.
Now, this got me to thinking about metal-bodied resonators, as I just
saw a sort of banged up one at one of the local guitar centers going
for $7500. It paled in comparison to my $300 Regal RC-1. What gives?
There's no wood to age or mellow the sound. It's a metal body, so
I'd assume that it can be copied very easily today down to the last
detail. Surely some of you guys out there have an opinion or two
about this. Who's got a few old ones as well as new ones to compare.
I'd be interested to hear how the old ones...cheap and expensive,
compare to the new ones...cheap and expensive.
Later,
m
SMoppert
and old German Silver Tricone. I much preferred the old one. I think that most
of the difference was the difference in body material, some of it would have
also been the difference in the olds cones compared to the new. If you compare
brass bodies to brass bodies and steel to steel old and new I don't think there
is any difference in sound, but the cones, old versus new. would make a
difference. However, the shape size, thickness of material design of the back
etc. do make a difference, and those things are usually or always different
than original.
Steve
m wrote,
Elliot
Interesting discussion...new vs. old...you could say the same thing
about cars and motorcycles and pianos and guitar amplifiers, etc...
Unless there is a technological improvement (Televisions, computers),
shortage of materials or beneficial aging process (i.e. wood), you
can always argue about whether old or new is better. Read the link
above to the Vintage Guitar section about National Resos. Any old
reso will need some work. The cone could've been covered with dust,
the strings may have been old, the neck may need work, a setup at the
bare minimum, and who knows what else. But from what the experts
like Bob Brozman and Michael Messer say, a new National will sound
every bit as good as an old one. (Yes, I know Bob Brozman is paid to
endorse them.) So....you are paying a lot of cash for the
collectability value. Better to compare your Regal to an instrument
in tip top shape for a true comparison. If it sounds as good as a
new National then you can plan out what to buy with all the money you
will not need to spend on a National. Since the cone is the heart of
a resonator anyway, there are many happy sliders out there playing
National and Quarterman cones in Korean and Chinese made bodies and
they all sound very happy.
chetatkinsdiet
German Silver to make new bodies?
m
Mike Dotson
German Silver to make new bodies?
m
>>
Some people do, like Ron Phillips and John Morton. I helped a friend put his GS
tricone together and plan on doing one for myself when I get a chance.
It's wonderful, more ductile than yellow brass and of course sounds so great.
It is more expensive, but would raise the manufacturing cost of an entire
guitar by only about $60-90.00 over brass, maybe less bought in quantity.
chetatkinsdiet
installing a National cone and biscuit...along with a bone nut in my
Regal RC-1...I can't wait to hear it. I get it tomorrow. Then I'll
really be able to compare it to some of the more expensive new ones
out there as well as the vintage ones. I'd love to hear more about
these German Silver models that you're talking about....does anyone
have them on their websites?
Later,
m
Tony Done
Tony D
"chetatkinsdiet" <mwo...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:c2fd0fae.03060...@posting.google.com...
chetatkinsdiet
definition. Having a pro set up helps the most though...I REALLY dig
this now. Gimme the weekend to bang on it and I'll update a bit more
then.
later,
m
Bob Brozman
> http://www.provide.net/~cfh/national.html#intro
>
>
> "But from what the experts
> like Bob Brozman and Michael Messer say, a new National will sound
> every bit as good as an old one. (Yes, I know Bob Brozman is paid to
> endorse them.) "
Hi Elliot, and anyone else who mistakenly believes this silly
thought....
I have seen this nonsense statement, based on imagination, before-- so
I would like to address it once and for all:
Let me state CLEARLY that I am NOT, nor have I ever been paid by
National, for anything. I USE their guitars onstage every night, so
that is a REAL endorsement. For me, anyone who accepts money for an
endorsement loses credibility. I use National because I PREFER them
over other resonator guitars, no other reason, guys!
">Since the cone is the heart of
> a resonator anyway, "
Yes it is the heart, but like in a person, the heart alone does not
comprise the whole functioning person. The resonator contributes
40-50% of the sound quality. Thee rest comes from the dimensions,
materials, worksmanship, and the physical relationship of the cone to
the rest of the guitar. In this regard, National's cones are the
best, but more importantly, the OTHER elements which create sound are
also best on Nationals (in my UNPAID opinion!)
Old Vs. New? I strongly feel and have stated before, that a new one
will sound as good, and then better than an old one AFTER 6 months of
play, and then more depth after a year, 2 years of play. I have
played mint, unused old Nationals, and they, too, need a break in
period. As far as playing with other musicians, I prefer the new ones
because the intonation is so much better than the old ones.
Meulle-Stef benoīt
yes the all time dileman between new versus old guitars... For what I
have seen and played I can tell you that some new resonators instruments are
gorgiuous! I'm thinking of FINE RESOPHONIC in France (Bob knows the guy...)
and I spended an afternoon on his house trying his National vintage
colection and his new guitars... Well I definitively prefer the feeling and
playability of a new instrument (Baseball bat neck are quind of difficult
for me).
The other point is play the ax!!! I repair about 30 instruments a week
and it's a pitty to see a guitar ouwn buy a strupid director of the European
Comunity and been just a "bureau decoration"...
when I did my resonator guitar with 17" body the tone was UGE and
deep... It was good for 2 resons: Good cone (National) and great body shape,
regular 17" non cutaway jazz body. this 2 things putted together are really
a winner.
I can understand that Bob is using National (I hate the prices of that
babys here...).
Cheers and keep resonating!
--
Benoīt Meulle-Stef.
Luthier
www.bmsguitars.com
Mike Dotson
misunderstand your relationship with Don and Mac and National R-P in general.
Since you were such a help to them in the R&D stages of the company and are a
dealer it's not surprising that some would assume you're a paid endorsee.
Thanks for clearing that up.
Bob Brozman
Thanks Mike,yep, they are also great guys, too. Plus Don is a hell of
a good player, too modest to admit it though. At my advanced age, I
see to it that all the peole I work with are like family and friends.
Life is to short to do otherwise!
Tony Done
As I have posted several times, the things I write for this ng are based on
my personal experiences with a small number of resos, none of which has been
a National Resophonic (rare as hen's teeth in my part of Oz). So, since you
have seen a fairly large sample, can you tell me whether there is much
variation between individual guitars of the same model, or could you buy one
by mail order and be very confident you wouldn't get a dog?
As an aside, I went out and paid an outrageous price for a very rough kona
prototype (built by OMI just before they sold out to Gibson) after seeing a
bit of video of you playing a weissenborn (couldn't find one of those at a
price I could afford), I think here in Oz. Sounds great, very resonant bass.
Now all I have to do is learn how to play the damned thing.
Tony D
"Bob Brozman" <bobbr...@att.net> wrote in message
news:1e20907a.03060...@posting.google.com...
Bob Brozman
> Hi Bob, I've sometimes wondered how much you lurk here!
I stop by when I have time....
>
> As I have posted several times, the things I write for this ng are based on
> my personal experiences with a small number of resos, none of which has been
> a National Resophonic (rare as hen's teeth in my part of Oz). So, since you
> have seen a fairly large sample, can you tell me whether there is much
> variation between individual guitars of the same model, or could you buy one
> by mail order and be very confident you wouldn't get a dog?
You can be confident--consistentcy is VERY high, and only 6 guitars
out of 14,000 made have ever come back to National with a problem.
>
> As an aside, I went out and paid an outrageous price for a very rough kona
> prototype (built by OMI just before they sold out to Gibson) after seeing a
> bit of video of you playing a weissenborn (couldn't find one of those at a
> price I could afford), I think here in Oz. Sounds great, very resonant bass.
> Now all I have to do is learn how to play the damned thing.
Sometime check out www.bcguitar.com for the excellent Bear Creek
Weissenborns. he is an individual maker, contact him directly. --Bob
B.
>
> Tony D
>
Meulle-Stef benoīt
million milles from Gibson/dobro quality...
--
Benoît Meulle-Stef.
Luthier
www.bmsguitars.com
"Bob Brozman" <bobbr...@att.net> a écrit dans le message de
news:1e20907a.0306...@posting.google.com...
Elliot
> thought....
>
> I have seen this nonsense statement, based on imagination, before-- so
> I would like to address it once and for all:
>
> Let me state CLEARLY that I am NOT, nor have I ever been paid by
> National, for anything. I USE their guitars onstage every night, so
> that is a REAL endorsement. For me, anyone who accepts money for an
> endorsement loses credibility. I use National because I PREFER them
> over other resonator guitars, no other reason, guys!
Hello Bob,
Wow...I was away for a few days and realize what a stir I created!!
I truly apologize for assisting the proliferation of an incorrect
rumor. The intent was certainly not to discredit your integrity.
This rumor exists because people assume that anyone who endorses a
product receives some type of benefit, financial or otherwise.
That said, thank you for sharing your perspective of new versus old
with the ng. New Nationals are unarguably the gold standard by which
all other resonators are measured. I completely agree that a new
instrument will be free of the setup, aging, misuse, and manufacturing
variability of a vintage instrument.
> ">Since the cone is the heart of
> > a resonator anyway, "
>
> Yes it is the heart, but like in a person, the heart alone does not
> comprise the whole functioning person. The resonator contributes
> 40-50% of the sound quality. Thee rest comes from the dimensions,
> materials, worksmanship, and the physical relationship of the cone to
> the rest of the guitar. In this regard, National's cones are the
> best, but more importantly, the OTHER elements which create sound are
> also best on Nationals (in my UNPAID opinion!)
>
>
No argument here. Reconed Asian resonators are a relatively
inexpensive alternative to those who do not have the funds to purchase
a National, or as novices, are not ready to make this type of
investment. I do not believe that they will be equal. I purchased a
used '93 Gibson brass bodied Duolian stars and moon biscuit style
dobro and installed a National cone. This was a tremendous
improvement, but it sure ain't a National. My dream is to one day
own a new National tricone.
Hope to hear from you again on this ng.