Johnson Tri-Cone ?
Bill Willingham
especially regarding construction, materials, playability, etc? I'm
assuming it will sound a lot better with National cones, but how about
the rest of it? And if not Johnson, then what?
Thanks
Robert Gardner
Amistar) and those made in China by children chained to the machinery in
communist slave pits, breathing caustic vapors and heavy metal toxins. I
only have experience with the Czech ones. I bought one for about $700 put
in National cones for $108 and it really sounds good. The brass is a
little thinner than the American guitar and the necks are not as nice, but
perfectly serviceable. The American National Resnophinic necks really are
very nice, but the Johnson necks (three-piece mahogany) play fine and seem
pretty stable.
If you want the distinctly different sound of a tri-cone, I think this
Johnson the most reasoanable way in. Tri-cones are also made in France,
New Zealand, and Australia and also by individuals here and there, but the
Johnsons seem to be the best deal for the money if you replace the cones.
Body construction is good, and the basic design is very similar (though not
exactly the same) as the originals. They are copies of later tri-cones so
they have a flat headstock rather than the slotted one (less elegant,
easier to re-string). Some consider the flat headstock butt ugly, but
original Nationals had flat headstocks that were very similar to the
Amistars in the later 30's. There is a good review of the Amistar tricones
in Guitarist Magazine, a British publication, written by respected UK slide
guitarist Michael Messer. In it he writes:
"The Amistar captures the smoother bark of a tri-cone, as opposed to the
rawer sound of a sinel cone resonator pretty well but a little thin,
especially in the bass end, a flaw that would be improved by better cones.
Still, many an old national suffers from the same problems... Take a slide
to the Amistar and you'll be rewarded with good sustain and bright
character, great for slide blues. It also performs well as a
lap-steel/hawaiian/Dobro type instrument.. yes it lacks the original
tri-cone's sweetness and finesse but such a 20's National擁f you could find
one at all謡ould cost around eight times the price of this Amistar."
If anyone is interested in the entire review (two pages long), I will
attach it as a jpeg file. His description of the body construction is also
quite positive (though he was dismayed to find common electrical tape used
as an anti-rattle gasket).
Nobody is making tri-cones now in big numbers (except maybe the Chinese
slave pits). Because Johnson has discontinued the Amistar deal in favor of
the Chinese, the Czech tri-cones are being sold off for reduced prices.
There is one on e-bay now for $500.
good luck
Mike Dotson
Tricone.
http://www.geocities.com/truckerdave10/
Bill Willingham
appreciate the thoroughness of your answer!
Marto (the unbelievable)
cheers
Marto the unplayable
--
Odds Bodkins and a Thousand Gadzooks!
(remove the unbelievable to reply)
[snip]
Robert Gardner
Amistar tri-cone). Anyone have any advice?
Also, I got this not today indicating that Amistar is going to import directly
into the states. Given the prices, seems like now is a good time to buy those
Czech tri-cone Johnsons if you can find them. This is not spam, by the way. I
had asked Amistar who to get parts from and they gave me this guy's email
address.
-------
Dear Robert,
Just a note to let you know that Amistars are now available in
the USA. I am currently contacting retailers, and I am able to sell
a limited number of these instruments directly at introductory
prices:
Style "Stager" w/ hardshell case 1500
(style "O" cutaway thin body)
Style "O" or "N" Single Cone w/ hardshell case 1500
Style "1" Tricone w/ hardshell case 1650
Style "2" Tricone w/ hardshell case 2295
Shipping is additional, and with an insured shipment in 6 days the cost is
between
50-100 dollars, depending on location.
Let me know if you are interested in any other pricing.
We will also be opening up a website which will offer replacement parts for
reso-phonic instruments as well as slides, reso-phonic strings etc.
Thanks,
Steve Kaul
Amistar USA
Mike Dotson
Amistar tri-cone). Anyone have any advice? >>
Robert you can't post jpegs on the newsgroup. Here's a link to Messer's site
where the reviews are.
Paul Kucharski
>I am currently contacting retailers, and I am able to sell
> a limited number of these instruments directly at introductory
> prices:
>
> Style "Stager" w/ hardshell case 1500
> (style "O" cutaway thin body)
>
> Style "O" or "N" Single Cone w/ hardshell case 1500
> Style "1" Tricone w/ hardshell case 1650
> Style "2" Tricone w/ hardshell case 2295
>
Wow! If these are the prices he hopes to get, he's not going to be
selling very many. These seem even high for list prices if you ask
me. But certainly not discount prices. The Amistar Style 2 tricone
should sell for no more than $1100-1500 at typical discount prices,
just like the Johnsons (I paid $1100 for my Amistar made Johnson Style
II). Introductory prices...ya right. An introductory price is
suppose to be low, not list.
gregc
etc... sell more guitars. Noone in their right mind is gonna lay down
that kind of coin for those tin cans.
gregc
pgku...@execpc.com (Paul Kucharski) wrote in message news:<7e5e4a40.01081...@posting.google.com>...
Bill Hoff
> > (style "O" cutaway thin body)
> >
> > Style "O" or "N" Single Cone w/ hardshell case 1500
> > Style "1" Tricone w/ hardshell case 1650
> > Style "2" Tricone w/ hardshell case 2295
Jeeze, I only paid $1700 for my original REAL 1936 Style O, and $3800
for my mint REAL 1929 Style 2 Tricone. Those prices are outrageous,
for import crap. But, like they say; there's one born every minute.
Hope nobody gets suckered into this one.
JOHN IVAR REITAN
"Bill Willingham" <bi...@oregon.uoregon.edu> skrev i melding
news:3B6D762B...@oregon.uoregon.edu...
I've got a Continental Tricone.
It's got that Amistar body, but with a neck made and fitted in Germany. It's
a Style 1, but got a MOTO fronted slotted headstock, and a strange striped
binding. The neck is fat and very well made.
I've replaced the cones with Nationals. The original cones were very soft
and not very loud. They were too low to have a Highlander Magnaphonic pickup
under. The National cones are stiffer and louder with more midrange.
I'm from Norway so Nationals are veeeeeery expencive over here. Even the
Continental was not cheap.
I'm now only using the tricone entirely when I'm gigging. I'm in a blues
duo, playing fingerpicking and slide. I've set the guitar up as compromise
for playing both styles. I'm using 13's and they're a bit heavy for
fingerpicking, and a little light for slide.
I think I'm going to have another single cone. Maybe a National Delphi as a
second guitar in the future set up for slide.
John Ivar
Robert Gardner
I understand those German necks are much nicer than the czech Amistar necks
(which are so butt ugly). But they sure sound nice with National Cones. What
do you know about Fine Resnophics from France? Do they sell their cones? I
understand Europeans like these French guitars.
How do they sing the blues there in Norway? I guess all those months of
darkness and cold contribute to it... I have been in Tromso in the winter and
it sure encouraged me to drink.
" I went down to the fjiord just to get my hambone boiled,
cause the women round here they will let my hambone spoil..."
or
"I walked all the way from Trondheim
I never had but that one, one thin dime
I laid my head in a Oslo's woman's lap
She laid her little cute head in mine"
Which is a pretty good lead to the subject of authenticity, both in guitars and
guitar music itself (not to knock you, John, or any other non-black guitar
player born after about 1922). I always felt that it was pretty hard for a
middle-class white guy not to sound a little goofy imitating Charlie Patton or
Robert Johnson. Although this music is a lot of fun to play, I think it is the
musicians that use it as a point of departure for their own music (as John
Fahey did) that really get away with it. The idea that Eric Clapton has been
the route of introduction to the world for Robert Johnson is ironic, as
inauthentic as his playing is, and I have always found Bob Brozman to be a
flashy technician completely absent of soul.
Anyone who has owned pre-war guitars (and I have had several, including a type
O National) is familiar with the satisfaction that the old wood (or hawiian
etched metal) gives, the sense of time and authenticity and so on. But in the
end they are just guitars and they either sound good and play well or they
don't. It is quite possible to pay enormous sums of money for a mediocre
guitar, just because it is old and has a Martin or National lable. And I broke
a very nice herringbone Martin once by dropping it on a concrete floor in a bar
(a very unhappy night).
And as has been pointed out here, the new Nationals are not original Nationals
in any way at all, not any more than the guitars from Australia, New Zealand,
the Czech Republic or China for that matter. I think you would have a
difficult argument proving that a National Resnophonic guitar from LA was
really any better than the Amistar body with a German neck and National cones
(that John from Norway has). And in the end it seems like the sound is coming
from the quality of the cones. The great majority of old Nationals being
played (as distinct from those living in a closet as an investment) have new
cones.
The big difference in all of this is cost. I sold my 30's type O because in
the end it was dissapointing as a guitar and I did not buy it as an
investment. And I rather like this Johnson/Amistar tri-cone that I have (ugly
neck and all) with its National cones. It cost $700 on ebay.
When I was a teenager, I worked with the record collectors and producers who
brought about the blues revival and brought Skip James and John Hurt and Bukka
White and Robert Wilkens up to re-record. I saw Bukka White playing the
square-necked National Tricone (the guitar in his picture in Brozeman's book,
whose cones he later smashed with his enthusiastic playing). In those days a
lot of people worked very hard to precisely duplicate the playing of these old
guys and most of them (particularly John Hurt) were very generous about showing
the white kids how to play. But there was always a huge difference between
hearing Bukka White and hearing an adoring fan. John Hurt, when given his
choice of any guitar he wanted in a music store, chose the most ordinary
middle-of the-road guitar over all the old Martins and Gibsons hanging in the
store. He liked the way it played.
An old guitar will not make you authentic, or make you play any better. It
will mostly cost you a lot of money, and then you will be afraid to play it
because you might drop it or it might get stolen (I have had two pre-war
Martins stolen).
Sorry to be so long winded.
rob
Mike Dotson
Regarding the "Exploding Palm tree" tricone that Bukka is pictured with. Was
it's neck unaltered? I had for a short time an XPT that had been "converted" to
round. it was pretty well done with areas not carved left alone and clear
lacquer on the back of the neck. I always wanted to think that it was the one
he had played. <g>
It did indeed have smashed cones, it also was built without a tailblock and the
area under the tailpiece had crushed somewhat and the neck needed shimmed and
reset. I made a block for it, reset the posts under the neck stick and fixed up
the cones.
After that it wasn't too bad a player, the neck was a bit thick though.
As far as I know Mike Lewis doesn't sell cones. I've emailed with him a few
times but never have asked. Michael Messer gives them rave reviews and puts
them up with, and beyond National R-Ps for sound quality.
Robert Gardner
that my recollection was that it had a round neck, but it seems to have a
square-neck in the picture. It belong to a guy named Burk from Baltimore who also
had a Holtzaphel 12 string guitar, made by Holtzaphel in Baltimore (obsure
indeed). He had loaned it (the tricone) to John Fahey who passed it on for
White's use (I suppose to record with, though I don't know) and that was the end
of the cones. Then, of course, there were no replacement cones as far as I know.
The thing I really remember about the tricone then was how unique and cool it
was. Even in those days when you could by a pre-war herringbone d-28 for $400 it
was pretty rare.
The truth is that those original tri-cones were nickle-silver anyway, so all these
new ones are bogus, no matter who makes them (or all of them are equally as good,
depending on your point of view)
So maybe that was the same guitar, you never know. But players like Bukka White
really needed metal guitars just to stand up to the pounding. He was a very nice
man, unlike Skip James, who was a bit brusque with the white kids.
Mike Dotson
these
new ones are bogus, no matter who makes them (or all of them are equally as
good,
depending on your point of view)>>
The XPT I had, and all the later Style 97 tricones were brass bodied. Although
the coverplate on the one I had was German Silver (ie Nickel Silver). There is
a difference in tone with the GSs being somewhat better sounding. I've been
building with steel and brass but a buddy of mine recently located GS in sheet
form and has a body knocked out. I'm planning either a tri-cone or maybe a
Don-style singlecone in the near future.
GS isn't cheap at all, but for National R-P it would only add $100.00 or so to
their cost. It would seem worth it to me to do them like the originals. At
least in a "special" higher priced model.